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KYM Pony General VII: Live Free or Twi Hard

Last posted Jul 06, 2014 at 04:08PM EDT. Added Apr 19, 2013 at 12:22AM EDT
9944 posts from 165 users

@latest cease and desist

This is always sad to see, but at least that guy had a pretty good run. I first saw that Octavia one ages ago.

Jun 24, 2013 at 06:57PM EDT
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@Cease and Desist

Why doesn’t Hasbro just hire these guys and add them to the merchandise production line? Stopping these fans works will not save them money, nor brand identity confusion but incorporating it will make them money.

They don’t seem to have any grasp of opportunity

Jun 24, 2013 at 07:28PM EDT
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Blue Screen (of Death) wrote:

@Cease and Desist

Why doesn’t Hasbro just hire these guys and add them to the merchandise production line? Stopping these fans works will not save them money, nor brand identity confusion but incorporating it will make them money.

They don’t seem to have any grasp of opportunity

Meanwhile at Hasbro:

Employee: Sir, we’ve discovered someone who sells show-accurate figures of MLP
Boss: Interesting… execute order 66 you know what to do.
Employee: Shouldn’t we make an agreement where we get a benefit of his sales while he can still make and buy those figures?
Boss:….No, that would a ridiculously good idea [hands C&D hammer] do what must be done. Show no mercy.

But seriously I think they may have some sort of god complex, punishing everyone who has sinned with iron fist. Because if the creator of Double Rainboom was telling the truth and Hasbro gave him permission to do it for free, why not negotiate with the creators of other projects? After all they would get some type of benefit.
“These meassures make sure that their IP’s are safe and avoid the production of ripoffs” some might say, my arse! . Most (if not all) of us have seen at some points of our lives ripoffs of toy lines and that includes HASBRO’S TOYLINES (I once have seen a ripoff of Bonecrusher from the first Transformers movie of Michael Bay, for instance). What this shows is that their meassures seem to affect more peaceful fan projects than the real threat for them (which is almost unharmed).

Hasbro might be on their way to become the equivalent of EA of the toy industry.

Last edited Jun 24, 2013 at 08:12PM EDT
Jun 24, 2013 at 08:09PM EDT
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Blue Screen (of Death) wrote:

@Cease and Desist

Why doesn’t Hasbro just hire these guys and add them to the merchandise production line? Stopping these fans works will not save them money, nor brand identity confusion but incorporating it will make them money.

They don’t seem to have any grasp of opportunity

Agreeing there. In the past I never seemed to bother much with the Cease and Desist orders because I know it’s simply natural for companies to protect their brand. It was doomed to happen, and especially with a company like Hasbro who has a bit of a reputation on this, so I was never suprised.

But like you say here, these things are very popular. Hasbro could easily make a contract with the people to get around 50% of the profits. It’s a golden opportunity, yet they don’t take it. You’d expect a company such as Hasbro to think about this earlier.

Perhaps there are some risks or laws I’m not aware of here, but Hasbro could easily make these artists their own little piggy banks. Youtube has the Youtube partner deal, do something like Hasbro partner for all I care.

Random pony:

Jun 24, 2013 at 08:10PM EDT
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If I remember correctly, doesn’t Hasbro’s lawyers have some odd vendetta against us, even though the company itself either likes or doesn’t care about us?

Jun 24, 2013 at 08:18PM EDT
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20% Cooler than Ice Rinsankajugin wrote:

If I remember correctly, doesn’t Hasbro’s lawyers have some odd vendetta against us, even though the company itself either likes or doesn’t care about us?

Of course they are against us! Pushing for lawsuits puts money in their pockets, regardless of whether or not it is actually sound legal advice.

Last edited Jun 24, 2013 at 08:24PM EDT
Jun 24, 2013 at 08:24PM EDT
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About the Hasbro censorship, what would be easier/cheaper? Hire a bunch of new artists or keep the old artists and don’t split more money?

Jun 24, 2013 at 08:26PM EDT
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20% Cooler than Ice Rinsankajugin wrote:

If I remember correctly, doesn’t Hasbro’s lawyers have some odd vendetta against us, even though the company itself either likes or doesn’t care about us?

There was this pretty angry letter during the Lyra Plush ordeal, but other than that I don’t really know.

As for the company, they’re seperate from the creators from what you have to remember. There is the creators of the show, and the official Hasbro staff above them. In the end, the creators are still mere employees. That’s why you can’t really blame the creators for these C&Ds, they’re simply send out by their bosses and therefore the creators have no influence on them.

Jun 24, 2013 at 08:28PM EDT
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actually, it’s more complicated than that. basically, Hasbro hand to defend the trademark against infringement, or they lose it. They’ve lost MLP-related trademarks before (It’s why Applejack and Spike are the only charcters from G1 that have same-named equivalents in G4. They are the only ones Hasbro have the trademarks to.) so are paranoid about it ahppening again, especially since FiM is such a money-spinner. What Hasbro don’t care about (more or less) is episodes being uploaded to Youtube. Thats because that is a copyright issue, not a trademark issue. Does it suck that people making (in many cases) vastly superior stuff to the official stuff recieve cease & desist letters? yes, and they probably SHOULD institute some form of licensing instead- unfortunately, the parts of Hasbro that deal with trademark protection are almost certianly run by lawyers. They will always likely have a bias towards banning fanmade merchandise.

Jun 24, 2013 at 08:28PM EDT
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OK, before I go with this C&D stuff, I need to point out one thing.
@ RandomMan
Hmm… you seem to have some kind of ordeal with Lyra… judging by your posts on my wall and your love of the Lyra plushie…









Now then, back to the business at hoof!
@ C&D
Well, if it’s made by a company that Hasbro had no part in whatsoever, it will most likely be C&D. Reason why? I don’t understand business, and this is just my opinion, but they’re using trademark characters, which Hasbro sees as a threat to their business, which you all most likely already knew. They lose the general audience to other media, they don’t make money, even if it’d free (like Fighting is Magic). So they C&D the threats, and keep their monopoly on My Little Pony from others.

Jun 24, 2013 at 09:17PM EDT
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We’ve covered the IP issues before when Fighting is Magic was killed, so it’s old news to most of us. It still pisses people off every time another product or plan is issued a C&D, though.

As for hiring Hashbrony to make for a profit: first he has to make a profit. Hashbrony only charges the cost of materials – he doesn’t make any money off the sand sculpts. I think he’d feel bad if he had to raise prices just to cater to Hasbro.

Hasbro has had some bad experiences with high detail toys in the past, though, and that may be clouding their judgment on this. When they produced high-detail Transformers toys, they bombed completely. No attempt has been made since.

After all that, it may just be because these figures aren’t toys. They’re too brittle for play, and Hasbro is first-and-foremost a toy company. It’s just not in their interest.

Last edited Jun 24, 2013 at 09:30PM EDT
Jun 24, 2013 at 09:22PM EDT
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Braeburn wrote:

We’ve covered the IP issues before when Fighting is Magic was killed, so it’s old news to most of us. It still pisses people off every time another product or plan is issued a C&D, though.

Old news yeah, we went over it multiple times already. As I stated, no suprises there, we already are aware of most of the reasons. Protecting trademark and blabla. No need to repeat it, not everyone accepts it but its simply a case you must deal with. I long accepted it.

As for hiring Hashbrony to make for a profit: first he has to make a profit. Hashbrony only charges the cost of materials – he doesn’t make any money off the sand sculpts. I think he’d feel bad if he had to raise prices just to cater to Hasbro.

Take 100 artists, make each rise their prices by let’s say 5-10 dollars. 100 sells a month (most likely more) = 5k-10k a month, 60k-120k a year. And they can probably get more if they request a part of the profit. It’s really a piggy bank when you think about it.

After all that, it may just be because these figures aren’t toys. They’re too brittle for play, and Hasbro is first-and-foremost a toy company. It’s just not in their interest.

A good argument in this case, and one I can agree with. HOWEVER, the past C&D orders weren’t non-toys. Plushes are from what I remember still kids toys. Given, a lot of plush artists add to it that their creations are not directly made for cuddling, but numerous are.

Therefore that argument does not apply for those types of fan merchandise. Plus, although those figurines are fragile due to the sandstone, other figurines are just as sturdy as those dump things you get in the blindbags.

I understand the point, but is has some holes.

Hasbro has had some bad experiences with high detail toys in the past, though, and that may be clouding their judgment on this. When they produced high-detail Transformers toys, they bombed completely. No attempt has been made since.

>Hasbro has had some bad experiences with high detail toys in the past
>some bad experiences with high detail toys in the past
>high detail toys

>high detail toys


Markhaox wrote:

Hmm… you seem to have some kind of ordeal with Lyra… judging by your posts on my wall and your love of the Lyra plushie…

The image in my post earlier is a coincidence, it was just the first decent image I found to go with the post. I love the Lyra plushie due to the fanworks made of it, not because I can stick my dick into it (although, I’d love to have one just to use it as a box for pens).

Last edited Jun 24, 2013 at 09:48PM EDT
Jun 24, 2013 at 09:45PM EDT
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sstabeler wrote:

actually, it’s more complicated than that. basically, Hasbro hand to defend the trademark against infringement, or they lose it. They’ve lost MLP-related trademarks before (It’s why Applejack and Spike are the only charcters from G1 that have same-named equivalents in G4. They are the only ones Hasbro have the trademarks to.) so are paranoid about it ahppening again, especially since FiM is such a money-spinner. What Hasbro don’t care about (more or less) is episodes being uploaded to Youtube. Thats because that is a copyright issue, not a trademark issue. Does it suck that people making (in many cases) vastly superior stuff to the official stuff recieve cease & desist letters? yes, and they probably SHOULD institute some form of licensing instead- unfortunately, the parts of Hasbro that deal with trademark protection are almost certianly run by lawyers. They will always likely have a bias towards banning fanmade merchandise.

Short reply: This is not true.

Long reply: Ye veterans of the Fighting is Magic debate, take a three paragraph break. According to the Berkman Center for Internet and Society at Harvard University, copyrights are lost “through abandonment, improper licensing or assignment, or genericity.” Improper licensing is mostly irrelevant in this case, as Hasbro never licensed their property to anyone. So is genericity: “My Little Pony,” or any of its related trademarks, are not considered generic terms for any similar product lines. So those two terms we can ignore.

However, abandonment is what many people take to mean, “If they don’t defend it, they lose it.” This is not the case. Abandonment refers to a trademark falling into disuse by the company that owns it, and this is usually dealt with in court on a case-by-case basis. This is the reason that many of the older ponies names are no longer owned by Hasbro; their names fell into what could reasonably be called “disuse” by a court, and another company, person or entity filed a more recent trademark to that name. Improper licensing is actually the greater cause of Hasbro losing the rights to their names, but we aren’t worried about that. What we’re worried about is whether or not they lose their trademark if they don’t stop some dude with a 3-D printer.

They don’t. Abandonment does not mean a failure to enforce. It simply means the company no longer uses it. If Hasbro suddenly stopped using the My Little Pony trademark for a good amount of time, it is likely a court would find they have no grounds to stop anyone else from making content around it. Since Hasbro continues to use the trademark, they still own it. That’s the end. They can let as many people run around making My Little Pony fan content as they want, as long as they continue using it, aren’t idiots with the licensing, and don’t let it become a generic name. None of that will happen. Look at other companies; Super Smash Flash still exists because Nintendo never bothered to take action against them, yet Nintendo still owns the rights to the Super Smash Brothers name and everything affiliated with it.

The real reason they stopped this guy is simple: he was manufacturing. I’m going to boil it down to something perhaps slightly more simple than reality, but you get my point: he sits at a computer in front of a printer, pushes a button, and a pony pops out. He sells the pony and makes money. When people make plushes, they make them by hand, and couldn’t possibly compete with Hasbro. A guy with a 3-D printer makes similar models to what Hasbro already makes, and has the potential for his supply to exceed demand. It’s more businesslike than your average plush maker, not to mention the guy’s name is Hashbrony. Hasbro is perfectly welcome to come in and shut him down, and I’m not at all surprised that they did. I don’t even hold it against them that much. They don’t have a bias against fanmade merchandise. They shut this guy down because he was working on a massive scale compared to almost anyone else in the fandom, and with stuff like the Lyra plush they’re expected to do that to preserve the image of their brand. Your average plush maker is nothing but good publicity for the brand, honestly, and they aren’t just trying to crush the fandom under their boots.

If you’ll excuse me, I’m off to keep mainlining Firefly, because when my options are do creative things or watch space westerns, the choice is obvious. Now have some IKEA pone, since if you’re going to infringe on trademarks, infringe on many:

Last edited Jun 24, 2013 at 10:09PM EDT
Jun 24, 2013 at 09:48PM EDT
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Honestly guys I’m just going to say this now, if I were working with Hasbro and a bunch of people online were selling overpriced fanmade merchandise based off my shit….I’d probably cease and desist them as well. It would be different if this guy was like “Who wants this Derpy Hooves Plushie? I made it and would love to give it to someone else” but since they’re making/selling these for their own personal gain…well shit. That honestly makes it a little harder to be sympathetic about, now Fighting is Magic is something I could be sympathetic about since it was a nonprofit game until….near the end when….I think they got donations to appear at that fighting game tournament I believe? I don’t remember honestly.

About the hiring them to make toys for me? Well that would send a PERFECT message to all the corporations out there “Oh hey guys you know that guy who was making money off my product? Well now I pay him to make these…..Wait a minute….”. Doesn’t look like the best business decision to me, you’re basically showing everybody that you admit you can’t make merchandise as good as this so you had to hire the guy who makes these things out of his house. Don’t own a business, probably never will either but that sounds like a pretty bad idea.

Jun 24, 2013 at 10:03PM EDT
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If I can make one more point on all this, to the idea that ‘Hasbro should just hire him’:
That’s certainly a solution that sounds good on paper, but presents a lot of potential pitfalls in practice.

As much as it would be pretty cool, large companies don’t ‘just hire’ people.
All new potential employees would need to be filtered through the usual HR people (to make sure he is capable of working with other people and not being a total asshole), PR people (to make sure he will always represent the Hasbro name and brand in a positive light), lawyers (to explicitly lock down what he does and does not have the rights and permissions to do while working for them), and background checkers (to make sure he isn’t some child-murdering psychopath in his spare time) at a minimum.
Maybe it would be nice to think that delivery of a solid product could jump you to the front of the line in all this, but it really can’t.
Because all those people need to be involved in something like this, the cost of ‘just hiring’ this guy could actually be quite high.

And for what?
Don’t get me wrong: I’ve been following this guy’s work for a long while now and I’ve very nearly gone through with buying them (that Derpy especially), but how many units has he actually moved?
According to his seller page on Shapeways, his three figures have a grand total of 53 star ratings combined.
Obviously, not everyone who buys will rate, but I can’t imagine that he’s really selling all that many of these things.
Hasbro isn’t going to go through all of the above trouble just to gain ownership of a product that’s barely been selling anyway.
Just not worth the time and expense.

Another caveat: These are being produced through Shapeways.
I don’t know what the exact legal situation would be, but Hasbro would probably want/need some kind of contract with Shapeways itself as well.
Even beyond the trepidation they might feel about handing their IPs over to a separate company that they have never worked with before, that deal has to be hammered out, too.
That’s a Company/Company contract for production of licensed material.
I think it should be obvious how complex and expensive that could get.
And again, all to take control of a product that has likely sold only a few hundred units.

At the most basic level, it just doesn’t look like a great investment from their perspective so they wouldn’t really want to bother.

Jun 24, 2013 at 10:51PM EDT
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Well, I wasn’t here for the last few pages. To summarize:
>users worshipping Celestia’s butt
>users talking about the mystery of cutie marks
>users now talking about Hasbro’s cease and desists
>mfw PG is having an intelligent conversation

Hopefully this thread will not degenerate into some sort of madness.

Last edited Jun 24, 2013 at 11:09PM EDT
Jun 24, 2013 at 11:04PM EDT

RandomMan wrote:

>Hasbro has had some bad experiences with high detail toys in the past
>some bad experiences with high detail toys in the past
>high detail toys

>high detail toys

>When they produced high-detail Transformers toys, they bombed completely.
>produced high-detail Transformers toys
>Transformers toys
>Transformers


DeadParrot pretty much covered all my counter arguments, so I won’t bother reiterating them.

Jun 24, 2013 at 11:17PM EDT
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The amount of hasdroning on ED is just facepalmingly shameful. Majority of them are like “It’s their legal right to do so” and “we must move on”. Well, here’s also what Hasbro has a legal right to do:

1. Shut down all fanworks which don’t qualify as a parody.
2. Shut down all imageboards centered around their merchandise.
3. Even blackmail websites from mentioning fanworks or else threatening to do the two things above.

Well, moving on and not doing anything has had devastating consequences since Chrono Resurrection shutdown in 2005 by Square Enix.

(By the way, parents have a legal right to read their children’s secret diaries, punish their children while making up excuses and even take away their personal belongings for good or even treating their children vastly differently, strongly preferring one child over the others. Even if that’s all for the amusement for the parents. I’d like to see someone telling their children “It’s their right as a parents to do so so you should stop hating your parents, move on and be happy that they give you food and shelter.”)

Hasdrones also say “but they have to protect their copyright” without knowing that you don’t have to protect copyright, unlike trademarks. And before anyone knows, trademarks are meant to protect the CONSUMER, not the company. Trademarks do it by indicating that the product has a consistent origin and quality. However, that can’t be said when it comes to trademarks based on character names. Oh wait! There’s already a better trademark which makes the others redundant. That’s Hasbro’s logo. I think Hashbro should have just changed its name.

Last edited Jun 25, 2013 at 12:04AM EDT
Jun 25, 2013 at 12:03AM EDT
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Another cease and desist from Hasbro?

I don’t have much to add to the conversation, so I’ll just say this: it sucks.

Jun 25, 2013 at 12:23AM EDT
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Evilthing wrote:

The amount of hasdroning on ED is just facepalmingly shameful. Majority of them are like “It’s their legal right to do so” and “we must move on”. Well, here’s also what Hasbro has a legal right to do:

1. Shut down all fanworks which don’t qualify as a parody.
2. Shut down all imageboards centered around their merchandise.
3. Even blackmail websites from mentioning fanworks or else threatening to do the two things above.

Well, moving on and not doing anything has had devastating consequences since Chrono Resurrection shutdown in 2005 by Square Enix.

(By the way, parents have a legal right to read their children’s secret diaries, punish their children while making up excuses and even take away their personal belongings for good or even treating their children vastly differently, strongly preferring one child over the others. Even if that’s all for the amusement for the parents. I’d like to see someone telling their children “It’s their right as a parents to do so so you should stop hating your parents, move on and be happy that they give you food and shelter.”)

Hasdrones also say “but they have to protect their copyright” without knowing that you don’t have to protect copyright, unlike trademarks. And before anyone knows, trademarks are meant to protect the CONSUMER, not the company. Trademarks do it by indicating that the product has a consistent origin and quality. However, that can’t be said when it comes to trademarks based on character names. Oh wait! There’s already a better trademark which makes the others redundant. That’s Hasbro’s logo. I think Hashbro should have just changed its name.

Jun 25, 2013 at 12:29AM EDT
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Disturbed B wrote:

Another cease and desist from Hasbro?

I don’t have much to add to the conversation, so I’ll just say this: it sucks.

Well, these things happen because people move on after every C&D instead of tackling the problem. Especially if there are people who think that “It’s their legal right to do so” is the same as “It’s their moral right to do so.”

Jun 25, 2013 at 12:30AM EDT
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bioniclebrony? wrote:

Well, I wasn’t here for the last few pages. To summarize:
>users worshipping Celestia’s butt
>users talking about the mystery of cutie marks
>users now talking about Hasbro’s cease and desists
>mfw PG is having an intelligent conversation

Hopefully this thread will not degenerate into some sort of madness.

@Bionicle.

You still have much to learn about how this thread rolls.

There will always be small pockets of intelligent discussion at random intervals inside the ongoing madness but these are short lived and madness resumes quickly after the small intelligence bubbles. In fact we can see this thread devolving back into the madness right now


@Evilthing

Well, these things happen because people move on after every C&D instead of tackling the problem.

Do you really think the C&D orders only occur because people don’t dispute them in the first place?

Haha…Hahaha….HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Sorry kid but that’s not how it works. Go back and read what everyone else just said. In fact disputing C&D cases will just piss Hasbro off even more to the point where real money and time get involved in the losses for everyone involved. Over a kids cartoon? Not worth the trouble

C&D orders are not a problem we can tackle. It’s well beyond the fandoms power and authority

Especially if there are people who think that “It’s their legal right to do so” is the same as “It’s their moral right to do so.”

Tell that to Hasbro…

Last edited Jun 25, 2013 at 01:27AM EDT
Jun 25, 2013 at 01:22AM EDT
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Blue Screen (of Death) wrote:

@Bionicle.

You still have much to learn about how this thread rolls.

There will always be small pockets of intelligent discussion at random intervals inside the ongoing madness but these are short lived and madness resumes quickly after the small intelligence bubbles. In fact we can see this thread devolving back into the madness right now


@Evilthing

Well, these things happen because people move on after every C&D instead of tackling the problem.

Do you really think the C&D orders only occur because people don’t dispute them in the first place?

Haha…Hahaha….HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Sorry kid but that’s not how it works. Go back and read what everyone else just said. In fact disputing C&D cases will just piss Hasbro off even more to the point where real money and time get involved in the losses for everyone involved. Over a kids cartoon? Not worth the trouble

C&D orders are not a problem we can tackle. It’s well beyond the fandoms power and authority

Especially if there are people who think that “It’s their legal right to do so” is the same as “It’s their moral right to do so.”

Tell that to Hasbro…

Never defend someone just because they have legal right to do something. It will bite you in the back later.

Next, did Hasbro even have any reason to intervene? Was it REALLY that damaging to them?

Jun 25, 2013 at 01:32AM EDT
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BSoD said:

You still have much to learn about how this thread rolls.
There will always be small pockets of intelligent discussion at random intervals inside the ongoing madness but these are short lived and madness resumes quickly after the small intelligence bubbles. In fact we can see this thread devolving back into the madness right now.

Remember when all the shit went down at once and we were incredibly civil and intelligent for weeks on end? I think the Fighting is Magic C&D was in the middle of it.

Speaking of that, I linked the same article Exudes did back then. That explanation is pretty much straight on.

Last edited Jun 25, 2013 at 01:44AM EDT
Jun 25, 2013 at 01:41AM EDT
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Evilthing wrote:

Well, these things happen because people move on after every C&D instead of tackling the problem. Especially if there are people who think that “It’s their legal right to do so” is the same as “It’s their moral right to do so.”

ENEMY TEAL DEER INBOUND. GET INTO COVER

Because to change legal precedent costs a lot of money, and time, of which the accused, like all grown-up persons of their world, have in limited amounts and to curtail the control a company has over its properties is fundamentally immoral.

Hasbro is a giant, multinational, million-dollar company with an entire staff dedicated toward the legal status of their products and services. The devs of “Fighting” are in an indie, community-funded and driven game development group. “David vs Goliath” scenarios in real life rarely have the same result as they do in the Bible. Also, the time and money wasted in legal proceedings the devs could use to make a new game even better or equal to than anything they could have done with “Fighting is Magic”. Thereby making a good name for themselves as developers rather wade in the quagmires of copyright laws, which they have already done.

Further, “legal right to do so” CAN equal “moral right to do so” as laws are typically made with some type of morality in mind. Hasbro owns MLP and, as the property owner, can choose how their IP is used. This is no different from a hard working author suing someone over the blatant plagiarizing and free distribution of one of his books, albeit on a corporate scale. That book, aka IP, is what that author uses to make his/her living and no one other has the right to steal his/her lifeblood away.

As “Fighting” stood a very good chance of becoming monetized by becoming a tourney fighter, those funds siphoned could potentially cost Hasbro and prevent them from keeping numerous people employed and their families fed. In this case, “legal” = “moral”.

Last edited Jun 25, 2013 at 01:57AM EDT
Jun 25, 2013 at 01:55AM EDT
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bioniclebrony? wrote:

Well, I wasn’t here for the last few pages. To summarize:
>users worshipping Celestia’s butt
>users talking about the mystery of cutie marks
>users now talking about Hasbro’s cease and desists
>mfw PG is having an intelligent conversation

Hopefully this thread will not degenerate into some sort of madness.

One of the most important facts that everyone must learn sooner or later is that true intelligence is just a higher form of madness. We are able to have these moments of lucidity BECAUSE we also spend so much time shipping each other and filling the pages with randomness. It is because we are insane that we can see the world more clearly, and that is what gives us power.

Jun 25, 2013 at 02:01AM EDT
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@Twilit

Yea, I’m just teasing Bionicle. We like to pretend that were crazy but people do take the thread seriously when we need it. We just haven’t had a serious discussion in so long that Bionicle didn’t think it was possible.

I remember the moments when the thread was truly hysterical (I.E: not faking the madness) and most were over a year ago. The second fallout of the Derpy Incident, Ideo’s drama-queening and day Cite got negstormed comes to mind. We haven’t really had a shitstorm bigger than those since. Every other potential “shitstorm” was faked or downplayed

Last edited Jun 25, 2013 at 02:04AM EDT
Jun 25, 2013 at 02:03AM EDT
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badsitrep wrote:

ENEMY TEAL DEER INBOUND. GET INTO COVER

Because to change legal precedent costs a lot of money, and time, of which the accused, like all grown-up persons of their world, have in limited amounts and to curtail the control a company has over its properties is fundamentally immoral.

Hasbro is a giant, multinational, million-dollar company with an entire staff dedicated toward the legal status of their products and services. The devs of “Fighting” are in an indie, community-funded and driven game development group. “David vs Goliath” scenarios in real life rarely have the same result as they do in the Bible. Also, the time and money wasted in legal proceedings the devs could use to make a new game even better or equal to than anything they could have done with “Fighting is Magic”. Thereby making a good name for themselves as developers rather wade in the quagmires of copyright laws, which they have already done.

Further, “legal right to do so” CAN equal “moral right to do so” as laws are typically made with some type of morality in mind. Hasbro owns MLP and, as the property owner, can choose how their IP is used. This is no different from a hard working author suing someone over the blatant plagiarizing and free distribution of one of his books, albeit on a corporate scale. That book, aka IP, is what that author uses to make his/her living and no one other has the right to steal his/her lifeblood away.

As “Fighting” stood a very good chance of becoming monetized by becoming a tourney fighter, those funds siphoned could potentially cost Hasbro and prevent them from keeping numerous people employed and their families fed. In this case, “legal” = “moral”.

You mean a project which:
1. …didn’t pose any threat to trademarks.
2. …had none or minimal impact to reputation to the franchise, at least compared to other works.
3. …posed no monetary threat to Hasbro, even if when it was monetized (No way Hasbro was going to make a fighting game of their own) .
4. …Hasbro was aware MONTHS before sending a C&D letter (and was aware its ambition too). (Only shutdown of Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes was more blatant than this). And the thing was, they still waited some weeks after mane6 announced what was planned with that project. If this thing was really THAT damaging, then C&D should at least be sent right away, not wait for months.

“Hasbro owns MLP and, as the property owner, can choose how their IP is used.” That’s again, legal, not moral right.

Last edited Jun 25, 2013 at 02:16AM EDT
Jun 25, 2013 at 02:14AM EDT
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Platus wrote:

One of the most important facts that everyone must learn sooner or later is that true intelligence is just a higher form of madness. We are able to have these moments of lucidity BECAUSE we also spend so much time shipping each other and filling the pages with randomness. It is because we are insane that we can see the world more clearly, and that is what gives us power.

Thus our standard greeting:


ANIMATION TIME!

All of Season 1 & 2 compressed down into just a few minutes!

Ultimate time-saver!


Twilight’s a bit horny in this one:

Fight the Powah!

Last edited Jun 25, 2013 at 02:34AM EDT
Jun 25, 2013 at 02:33AM EDT
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@Copyright and Stuff…

I know that Hasbro has the right do do what they want more or less…

… I know if we disobey their will we’re technically doing something wrong…

…But really, the crimes are so flipping minor that I’m pretty sure that its not going to hurt Hasbro to just give some slack, or maybe cut a deal…

…Otherwise, I don’t really care.

Thieving is like, the most minor crime there is no matter how you slice it. Too rare and too little taken for any impact to be made. And when its resorted to, it usually out of desperation, and usually to a target that can afford to lose something.

Not that any intellectual property theft is okay, but compared to the fact their own figures could stand to be a lot better, I can only say this to Hasbro:

Three choices:

1. Make More kinds of Figurines thy consumer can indulge in that match thy competition’s, or create Higher Quality Figurines of thy own
2. Cut they competitor a worthy deal if their variants be as good or better than thy own (Thoust earn more that way)
3. Don’t bother thy competition with thou gibber gabber.

Edit: with anything other that figurines, just replace the word “Figurine” with the thing in question.

Last edited Jun 25, 2013 at 03:35AM EDT
Jun 25, 2013 at 03:32AM EDT
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@Cease and desist
I’m all for protecting fan works and Fair Use, but this was just about as blatant of copyright and trademark infringement as is possible. Selling pony toys (even if it’s at cost) of actual MLP characters directly interferes with Hasbro’s revenue. I’m really surprised all they did is C&D him, instead of just suing for every dollar he has. If I were the CEO of Hasbro, I would have been first in line to sign the C&D letter.

Hiring him sounds like a fine idea, but there’s countless internal issues that would have to addressed, let alone possible licensing conflicts with Funko, etc. It would also be horribly inefficient. This guy’s using a 3D printer to make these things. Not only would the costs be relativity high per toy, but only being able to make one at a time would pile up the overhead to a point that would be hard for an exec to stomach. The market for such toys would also be small. Bronies are chump change compared to the money moms and confused grannies spend on ponies.

Evilthing said:

You mean a project which:
1. …didn’t pose any threat to trademarks.
2. …had none or minimal impact to reputation to the franchise, at least compared to other works.
3. …posed no monetary threat to Hasbro, even if when it was monetized (No way Hasbro was going to make a fighting game of their own) .
4. …Hasbro was aware MONTHS before sending a C&D letter (and was aware its ambition too). (Only shutdown of Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes was more blatant than this). And the thing was, they still waited some weeks after mane6 announced what was planned with that project. If this thing was really THAT damaging, then C&D should at least be sent right away, not wait for months.

1) The characters used in the game are trademarked. Under the Lanham Trademark Act of 1946, if a trademark owner does not pursue legal action against “rouge third parties” (i.e. people who use the trademark without Hasbro’s permission), then they risk the USPTO or a federal judge revoking the trademark. This already happened to Hasbro in the 90’s. It’s why we see Rainbow Dash instead of Firefly, or Pinkie Pie instead of Surprise.
2) The large amount of publicity the game was receiving meant, unless Hasbro intervened, it was only a matter of time before the soccer moms got wind of a game where ponies who are supposed to embody friendship are beating the crap out of each other. Brand reputation is one of the most sacred cows of any company. Hasbro was not about to let MLP’s image get tarnished.
3) True. However, monetization is only one of the four factors in Fair Use. The game lacks any educational benefits, it’s transformative nature is questionable, and it risks tarnishing Hasbro’s copyright and eliminates a potential future market if Hasbro where to ever want to make a serious game.
4) Hasbro probably didn’t realize just how big the game had gotten until it nearly won at EVO/got featured on a major gaming site. When that happened, they realized just how big the thing was and promptly C&D’d it.

Jun 25, 2013 at 06:11AM EDT
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1) Could you please state what trademarks are for, who are they meant to protect and how character names protect them?
2) You mean, it had much larger publicity than any of the fanfics, image boards or sites?
3) Such risks are very small. I have yet to see a fangame tarnish any brand values.
4) A few weeks wasn’t prompt.

Maybe we should try to look this a different angles, what would have happened if that fighting game was indeed released.

Be it was it may, before we should make any conclusions, someone should find out who in Hasbro’s office makes these decisions, when these decisions are made and how they make these decisions. If there’s something important we don’t know, maybe Hasbro is hiding something for a reason.

By the way, would you defend Hasbro even if they start shutting down as many pieces of fan work creators, image boards and other infringing websites as possible?

(P.S. mane6 was ordered to remove all infringing assets from their site even if they met fair use.)

Mane6 is guilty a bit too for not leaking files into the Internet. The more often betas are found on the Internet, the less risk there is to receive C&D. There have been numerous fangame creators who also didn’t learn a lesson.

Jun 25, 2013 at 06:38AM EDT
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1) Could you please state what trademarks are for, who are they meant to protect and how character names protect them?
2) You mean, it had much larger publicity than any of the fanfics, image boards or sites?
3) Such risks are very small. I have yet to see a fangame tarnish any brand values.
4) A few weeks wasn’t prompt.

1) I believe others already did this earlier, but other people here are better at doing this than myself. The Wiki page from how far I’ve read it can get you quite informed.
2) Well, yes, as in public attention that game dominated all the sites and stuff. Derpibooru or EqD are those type of brony core websites that only those familiar with the fandom know about. Fighting is Magic was featured at live events, the public attention it suddenly got out of nowhere was booming. That was why it was a risk.
3) That’s becauses most small fan games don’t pose any real threat, they are simple flash games that have no replay value. With how many of these small games get created, giving each of them a C&D would be a prayer without end.
4) Well, duh, of course they can’t send them out right away, there is a period of research first. What is it? What risks could it pose? Would it be safe to allow it or is it better to stop it? Getting all the paperwork done and stuff, etc. That takes time, plus the Hasbro scanners most likely didn’t got word of it until a week or so after the public announcement.

By the way, would you defend Hasbro even if they start shutting down as many pieces of fan work creators, image boards and other infringing websites as possible?

No, we wouldn’t, but it’s not necessary to answer that question because they won’t do it. There are 2 reasons for this:
1) Albeit bronies are no real money bank compared to the money moms, they still give the show free advertising and are a good income. Hot Topic shirts with brony things and all, those wouldn’t exist if MLP ran on just little girls. Bronies are still a profit, and Hasbro knows that shutting down all the websites and artists will make the fandom hostile to a point that they lose all that profit.
2) Most of these fall within fair use of a copyright. Fair use is a doctrine that permits limited use of copyrighted material without acquiring permission from the rights holders. One of the factors for fair use is the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work. There simply is a limited use to which fair right applies. Fighting is Magic became an issue for the copyrighted market once they got into that event and became public.

Last edited Jun 25, 2013 at 09:38AM EDT
Jun 25, 2013 at 09:23AM EDT
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Now think for a minute: if mane6 would release the fighting game anyway like it was originally intended, which decision would harm Hasbro’s reputation more: taking mane6 to court or leaving them alone?

Jun 25, 2013 at 09:41AM EDT
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Evilthing wrote:

Now think for a minute: if mane6 would release the fighting game anyway like it was originally intended, which decision would harm Hasbro’s reputation more: taking mane6 to court or leaving them alone?

Depends on factors like how Hasbro is credited in the game, how good or bad it turns out to be (bad game = bad advertising), and if mane6 will ask money for purchasing the final product (and if Hasbro gets a cut of the possible profit).

So without this actually happening you can only run on vague speculations.

Jun 25, 2013 at 09:53AM EDT
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It would be very bad if after all those discussions, we’d find out that C&D was made not for business but for personal reasons just like Square Enix did with Crimson Echoes.

Jun 25, 2013 at 09:55AM EDT
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Evilthing wrote:

It would be very bad if after all those discussions, we’d find out that C&D was made not for business but for personal reasons just like Square Enix did with Crimson Echoes.

If that happens you’ll get quite some rage most likely, but it won’t be the end of the fandom.

Jun 25, 2013 at 10:26AM EDT
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Had some friends show up during our Prostate Cancer donation drive at work yesterday. It is unknown where they came from, or what their purpose is. I don’t mind it though.

Jun 25, 2013 at 10:29AM EDT
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RandomMan wrote:

If that happens you’ll get quite some rage most likely, but it won’t be the end of the fandom.

Indeed, the rage would be against Hasbro, not against DHX/Studio B. Remember that the first one created the franchise, made the show-makers introduce Twilight’s destiny before than it was planned for the sake of their sells, introduced a humanized Bratzesque subline to stand up against competition and are direct or indirect responsibles of the question we are talking about right now. Basically they only care about what we have in our wallets.

Meanwhile DHX were the ones that created this gen as we know it.They are the ones that introduced Derpy in a episode (to be eventually censored), made references through the show, and transformed what could have been just another “serie-commercial” into the show that we love. They care about us (tell me why would they throw some references like the “So awesome” in the Equestria Girls movie) and about the show they are making (and about the money their bosses give them, like every normal human being, why lie?).

My point is.if we are here discussing about Hasbro’s C&D’s or posting pictures about ponies isn’t because of Hasbro’s franchise itself, it’s because Lauren’s, Megan’s, Tara’s and the whole Studio B’s work.
G3.5 didn’t make a fandom, G4 did. So, I guess a shitstorm against Hasbro would divide people in terms on how to react towards the situation. But it won’t divide the fandom. My guess is that the brony fandom will live at least a few years more after the series finale. If nothing bad happens, though

Jun 25, 2013 at 10:59AM EDT
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DeadParrot222 wrote:

Thus our standard greeting:


ANIMATION TIME!

All of Season 1 & 2 compressed down into just a few minutes!

Ultimate time-saver!


Twilight’s a bit horny in this one:

Fight the Powah!

@My Little Gurren Lagann

Dammit! You ninja’d me. Oh well, we only have three weeks until the Anti-Harmonies crash the moon into Equestria anyway…

Jun 25, 2013 at 11:46AM EDT
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Evilthing wrote:

Now think for a minute: if mane6 would release the fighting game anyway like it was originally intended, which decision would harm Hasbro’s reputation more: taking mane6 to court or leaving them alone?

Jun 25, 2013 at 03:00PM EDT
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@Jimmy I don’t know if you can see the picture, but I get this icon you get a picture link is broken. (Sometimes I had that I could see a picture I put in a comment on the pc I made the comment from, but not from an other pc. Maybe that’s the case here)

Last edited Jun 25, 2013 at 03:20PM EDT
Jun 25, 2013 at 03:17PM EDT
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You’re right, I can’t argue against that

Last edited Jun 25, 2013 at 04:57PM EDT
Jun 25, 2013 at 04:57PM EDT
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@Above Back-And-Forth – Oh, my sides.


So, guys, as you may know, I’m moving on Saturday. With this move, I feel like I want to refresh my life, start a new beginning. This includes as a brony.

So how do I start again? Why, by creating an MLP card game, of course!

Pony Attax is an MLP:FiM card game based off the Pokemon TCG. It is created in Deckromancy, which is a card creating site. The PA Tumblr updates with new cards pretty much every day. If you got a Tumblr, I’d appreciate it if you’d follow.

I also made a new deviantART account.

Jun 25, 2013 at 05:57PM EDT
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Hey, does everyone remember back when Borderlands 2 launched their downloadable character, The Mechromancer, and half of her skill tree was pony-based?

Well…
They seem to have upped their own ante.

Hi, Rarity!

Guess I have to add this game back to my queue.

Last edited Jun 25, 2013 at 06:34PM EDT
Jun 25, 2013 at 06:33PM EDT
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I saw Equestria Girls on DailyMotion!

Holy fucking shit, was that way better than I expected. It really took everything great about the show and made it into a movie.

I guess I’ll start with the plot. While it was a bit unorthodox and went against my headcanon (I think the movie is non-canon, though), it was an interesting and funny story. They handled the characters in Anthroquestria much like their pony counterparts, the climax with Sunset Shimmer turning into a demon was something I thought I’d never see from FiM, and Flash Sentry (the guy Twilight likes) was a pretty chill dude.

That’s to say nothing of the references to the fandom and show itself. While EqG!Vinyl did not get a speaking role (good thing too, as I don’t think I’d like her voice), she had more screen time than the real Vinyl did in the entire show put together. Trixie was a fun large ham of a minor character, Photo Finish being school photographer made too much sense, the CMC counterparts stayed true to their canon “ancestors”, and Luna had substantial speaking time, both pony and anthro. The only thing missing was Octavia.

While I believe it’s non-canon, the movie stayed true to the show while throwing in a lot of new elements I’d like to be implemented into Season 4, just in a different way. Overall, I give the movie an A-.

Oh, and since I consider it non-canon (by non-canon, I mean an alternate universe), I thought it’d be fun to see The Legacy Armada (if anybody remembers them from Element Seven) react to the movie.

the movie ends and goes to the credits, while the theater claps and cheers

Josh Larson: So, guys, what’d ya think of the movie? I thought it was great.

AJ: It was alright. I think the writers handled me pretty well.

Dash: You thought your counterpart was awesome? Did you see how I messed with their Twilight?! I should get a gold medal for that!

Jeff: Dash, you weren’t even a part of the movie at all. Only Ace and Vinyl were.

Fluttershy: Um, pardon me, but what did they do?

Vinyl: Well, we did some of the music for it. I was supposed to voice my counterpart, but they had to cut it for time. Why worry about time? It’s a fucking movie!

Rarity: Vinyl, please! There are children in this movie theater!

Celestia: I honestly think them making me principal was much too obvious, Same thing with Luna.

Luna: Sister, please don’t speak for me. I, for one, thought this movie was great.

Pinkie: I think that was my new favorite movie!!!

Trixie: Hey, what do you think, Twilight? Your counterpart was the star, after all.

Twilight: I saw nothing wrong. They captured me perfectly, as far as I’m concerned. What about you, Spike?

Spike is glancing at an empty seat behind him

Spike: Uh… where did Gilda go?

Gilda runs into the theater

Gilda: Sorry, I had to use the bathroom. Did I miss anything?

Ace: chuckles You missed the entire movie.

Gilda: Oh. an annoyed look comes across her face

Cadance: Don’t worry, I have the whole thing on my phone.

Josh: looks around Hey, where are Angie, Alison, and Patrica?

Angie Rivers, Alison Cruz, and Patrica Jackson (AJ, Dash, and Pinkie respectively from Ask Human Appledash) are sitting in a booth on the wall.

Alison: No wonder they called it Equestria Girls. They all look like Katy Perry! her and Patrica laugh hysterically

Angie: Y’think the kids are gonna get the reference?

Patrica: Who cares? We got it!

…Okay, I dragged that out pretty long. But yes, the movie was great. Here’s a link to Part One!

Jun 25, 2013 at 08:03PM EDT
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@ Jimmy
Thanks for the link.
Well, this thread advanced a lot for the 10 days I was left without internet connection. So, what did I miss?

Jun 25, 2013 at 08:27PM EDT
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Skeletor-sm

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