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So i found this baby yesterday in mann up.

It’s a new item but does anyone have any idea how much it could be worth?

@Twi

My commentary in your verdicts:

Scout: You mean useful but necessary right? I just finished 3 games as scout, each one was a flawlesss victory. I used Milk, Fan and Scattergun and upgraded my resistances, damage and reload speed. my team performed so much better when I milked large groups or robots and marked the giants. Lastly when my team doesn’t have a scout it becomes harder to get bonuses

Heavy: Not really that necessary no. They can absorb a lot of damage and hold the line for a while but even with max damage resistance, they still get overwhelmed. Heavies are reliant on other classes delivering the damage they cannot do. They are often better off being another one of those classes

Demomen: Promote him to Useful and not just on chokepoints. Demomen are capable of inflicting more damage on those robots than all the other classes. They are especially good against tanks. Demoknights on the other hand are Unnecessary

Soldier: Been playing as one for a while. I think the Soldier is situational. The rocket launcher is less effective than one would think. Pyro’s kept stealing all my kills and for some reason my shotgun works better on tanks than my launcher. The main benefit of using a Solider is for the Buff Banner.

Pyro: Definitely necessary

Sniper: Definitely situational, although jarate and sydney sleeper is useful.

Engineer: Definitely necessary

Spy: Situational IMO. Spies are only effective if the Spy knows what hes doing and saps as much as possible.

Medic: Au contraire, promote the medic to useful but unnecessary. Yes you can get your own Crits and Ubers but the medic does this for free. Also medics tend to survive better than a nearby dispenser. Try a kritzkrieg medic + pyro combo

Sorry to double post but I just wanted to add that I recently completed a game with 2 scouts, 2 Soldiers, a Heavy and a Sniper. No Engies at all.

So it is in fact possible to beat MVM without an Engie

So, who here has played Advanced and won?

I did on mannworks. That shit was so hard even if i fully upgraded my sticky and grenade launcher damage, reload speed and firing speed. Even with 3 crit canteens those damn iron fist heavies are tough as nails. too many of them together fan fuck up everything.

You do realize that they take -40% damage from ranged sources but double from melee, right?
Demoknight solves that problem.

Oh i know they do but it’s kinda hard to kill them with a sword when 10 of them are bunched together. It takes 3 punches from them to kill most classes so if you fuck up 3 or 2 times then you’re dead.

I’ve never beaten Advanced Mannworks. Those ubercharged deflector heavies are just too hard to kill

I’ve never beat advanced anything, because I struggle with finding a good team.

I’ve beaten mannworks with a few friends before. It’s hard but we managed.

@Kipp

I tried the red tape recorder on the robots, no it does not downgrade them. It still saps them regularly but has a slightly different impact. I’ll let Jackal explain that one, he sues Spy more than I do

In my opinion, Demoknights of any sort perform poorly in MvM. You’re better off sticking with the stock loadout, or using the Loch-n-Load.

Demoknights are the most situational class in MvM. They aren’t as useless as stock medics, but they are only really any good against melee heavies (who take bonus melee damage), and you may not even see a single round of them, depending on the map and round.

Actually, is there any randomization involved in what come out in a round?

Personally, I prefer the Loch-n-Load over the stock grenade launcher, if only for its sheer power. It can put a severe dent in the robots’ defenses, and if you get a Krit Canteen, that tank is toast.

Also, clip upgrades.

I echo the opinions above. A demoknight is a waste of extremely necessary firepower. And by that I mean the Lock-n-load and the Sticky launcher. Those two weapons are incredibly useful for delivering high DPS and setting traps.

Yes a demonight can deliver extra damage to Fist-of-Steel roboheavies but they come in groups and will more likely surround and pummel your demonight before you can take out several at once. Meanwhile an upgraded grenade launcher can kill them just as fast without risking you or your team at the same time

There are no useless classes in MVM. You just have to have the right loadouts, upgrades, and have a proper team. I went demoknight while my brother went stock medic and we did great! I got 5 seconds of crits and 100 health after every pan kill, so I beat my way through crowds with no problem at all. Whenever a giant came up, my brother would give me an ubercharge. Even if I haven’t just killed an enemy, the pan crits very often, and the upgraded medigun’s uber time allowed me to do a decent chunk of a Giant Heavy’s health before retreating. A scout (I think it was actually BSoD) assisted me and grabbed all the cash, and anything that got past us got finished off by our sentry or heavy. Even when the tank came, the speed of the pan still makes it quite useful, not to mention I never need to reload or find ammo, saving time. The medic wasn’t useless, because he took out the spies that round while the heavy and engie focused their immense offensive power on the tank.

TL;DR: If you think a class is bad, you’re probably just be doing it wrong.

Kipp said:

Is the Arabian Demoknight(Persian Persuader, Splendid Screen, Ali Baba’s Wee Booties) any good on MvM?

I wouldn’t reccomend it, personally. The targe gives you a bigger defensive boost right from the start, saving you some cash that you might otherwise spend on fire and explosive resistance. In addition, you can already increase the recharge speed of your shield dash. And if you use a weapon that can get guaranteed crits on kill, the initial charge is all you need. All that renders the Persian Persuader less useful than most other demo melees. I chose the pan for random crits to help against tanks, eyelander gives an extended reach and buffs your speed and damage after every kill, and the skullcutter gives you a great power bonus.

William Schnell said:

Personally, I prefer the Loch-n-Load over the stock grenade launcher, if only for its sheer power. It can put a severe dent in the robots’ defenses, and if you get a Krit Canteen, that tank is toast.

Also, clip upgrades.

Actually, taking clip upgrades into account, I believe stock grenade has the edge in DPS on MVM. Granted, they’re both incredibly powerful weapons when buffed, so I don’t think it matters too much. Just go with whichever you prefer.

Blue Screen (of death) said:

I tried the red tape recorder on the robots, no it does not downgrade them. It still saps them regularly but has a slightly different impact. I’ll let Jackal explain that one, he sues Spy more than I do

OH…. YOU MEANT ON MVM! My bad. I still play the regular game and mods about as often as MVM, so I thought you just meant in general. I honestly don’t know what it does on MVM, if it’s different at all. I don’t even have the RTR. I just know what it does from my experience as an engie in normal matches.

In case anyone doesn’t know its use in regular matches, I guess I’ll go over that anyway. I’m pretty sure the RTR got nerfed in sapping speed, because it used to just be better than the sapper in every way. It should work slower now. I’m sure most of you know about the downgrading;the sentry unbuilds, and even if you save it, taking too long will result in a sentry that needs upgraded again. The real strength is that engineers can’t move anything, ever. If you catch them moving something, just run up to them. If you can’t backstab them, they’ll drop their building so they can defend themselves, but sapping a building while it’s building from level one speeds the sapping process. I lost a level 3 sentry instantly because of this.

@Jackal

OH…. YOU MEANT ON MVM!

Yea, when you told me that the RTR was not quite the same as the sapper, I totally thought you were talking in terms of MVM functionality (I knew about it’s normal function of downgrading buildings) so I figured there was some subtle difference in the RTR that you knew and I didn’t.

But in any case, I do have the RTR and when I tried it, it appeared to function exactly the same as the stock sapper.

A scout (I think it was actually BSoD) assisted me and grabbed all the cash

Might have been. I remember one game where you went demoknight. I think it was on Decoy…or maybe it was on Coaltown.

I certainly remember you going HeavyKnight on Coaltown and that turned out to be pretty effective

Playing MvM today, look what my team’s Engie happened to have:

And this was funny too.

@Ivan:

Yeah, I saw the ’World’s Largest Anus" thing in the middle of a trade server. Everything stopped for a second as people laughed it out.

Anyways, I’ve been playing Demoman in MvM with the Grenade Launcher, the Sco Res and the Caber and it’s pretty effective. The Caber works as a last ditch ‘Kill the fully-upgraded bomb carrier so my team doesn’t get wiped’, and it’s pretty effective. The Grenade Launcher is awesome for both hitting directly and spamming in an area to damage groups of bots quickly. The Sco Res is probably the most amazing thing ever for laying traps before the round starts. Fourteen stickies that you can detonate group-by-group make it better at holding down multiple areas and exploding at different times to kill different groups.

I think the bot killer scatter gun is worth 10 keys.

Who here loves using the Beggar’s Bazooka in this mode?

When facing Iron Fist Heavies, use the Spy!
I was a Spy along with another teammate and we kicked their asses.
But Giants? Sap ‘em. Sap them goddamnit. Especially the Super Scouts. They are slowed to a speed of almost nothing, making them easy targets for another Spy to backstab a few times.
Face it, Spies, in my opinion, have an advantage on the MvM field, mostly if there aren’t much Pyros or Soldiers around.
Soldiers, Pyros, Giant Heavies, Giant Rapid Fire Soldiers, and Giant Pyros are the only things that can kill a Spy. Unless you are getting raped by a squad of Scouts or have no idea how to use a Spy.

I played through Coaltown as a Scout today, and finally managed to go through all the waves without missing a single dollar! :D I managed to max out the Force-a-Nature’s power with it. It was fun using it with an uber canteen and the fan’o’war on the Giant Heavy! HE STILL KICKED MY ASS SEVERAL TIMES, THOUGH. Also, We got through with three people on every wave but the last, where we only had four. Even if it wasn’t advanced mode, we were doing pretty good! Sure, we had an engie, but we also had a Scout and Demoknight. I think that proves that a good team can consist of any of a variety of classes.

But I think I’ve been playing too much TF2 lately. I’m trying to scroll through the forums with the W and S keys!

@BSoD

Might have been. I remember one game where you went demoknight. I think it was on Decoy…or maybe it was on Coaltown.

I certainly remember you going HeavyKnight on Coaltown and that turned out to be pretty effective

Demoknight was on Decoy. Heavy was a defensive powerhouse, so it probably looked more effective due to how rarely I died. Demo is still good, though. Like I said, the pan has a “Guaranteed Crits on Kill” perk, which makes him unbelievably tough against the bigger crowds. Especially coupled with healing and attack speed.

EVERYONE SHOULD TRY EVICTION NOTICE HEAVY AT LEAST ONCE. IT’S UNBELIEVABLY FUN.

Katie C. said:

Who here loves using the Beggar’s Bazooka in this mode?

I actually just now got the Beggar’s Bazooka. I tried it on MVM after reading this comment, but I sucked with it, even with a Medic backing me up. I kept running out of ammo! Even with the ammo increasing perk, I didn’t help much. Again, we DID only have three people that match, Soldier is one of my worst classes, and I have never used the Beggar’s Bazooka before.

I find the bot taunts are really funny.

You guys should add me on Steam (Username: Wsxdas) so I can join in your games. I’ve been playing machine-pistol scout recently and I’m pretty jumpin’ good at it.
Protip: For machine-pistol scout, upgrading the Shortstop’s capacity increases pistol capacity as well, letting you have about 200 rounds.

I apologize for double-posting, but I’ve just been playing rounds as a sniper and must say that it is a neat class. You can upgrade the rifle to be a 900 damage rapid fire death machine. Sniper is most certainly useful.

My roommate used sniper the other day. Huntsman with (at least) upgraded penetration power. Got a couple of quad kills.

I think I’ll try it out after tonight’s ponies. Him and Spy.

A piece of advice: Rather than upgrading resistances and whatnot, put all of your cash into your sniper. The Sydney Sleeper and default rifle are the best, though I haven’t tried the bow. The things you should upgrade are reload speed, charge speed, and damage. After those upgrade penetration and then ammo capacity. Health on kill is pointless, and explosive headshots should only be bought after maxing out the prior stats. Good luck.

Played scout in MvM for the first time. I’m going to alter my review a bit, based on my experience with him.

Scout: Scout can be tough to use the first few rounds: the scattergun can be rather slow at first, compared to other classes. However, his cash magnet power is extremely useful to remedy that. I would recommend putting a lot of credits into clip size (I was either at max or one under), ammo capacity (I had either 2 or 3 levels of it), reload speed (I maxed), firing speed (I maxed), and some damage (I did fine with 2 upgrades into it). Make sure to upgrade H/K with Scout, as well; since overhealth isn’t capped in this mode (at least for now) you can get ridiculous amounts of health with a sped-up, large-clip scattergun (I got near 700 at one point, with 2 upgrades into it, against a bunch of ScoutBots). Ignore all other upgrades, IMO. Power Canteen choices should be crits or ubers (If you find yourself running out of ammo on a fast scattergun, you may want to consider refill clips).
The Scattergun even makes an effective weapon against tanks: just let the tank push you while you fire shell after shell into it at high speed.

Verdict: Useful. Not exactly necessary, still, but definitely one of the better classes you can choose. Make sure you have a good team to carry you through the first few rounds, though.

Kinda late disclaimer: The majority of my analyses are done with default or near-default loadouts, just so I know we all have the items I’m using (the main exception is my Pyro, which I can no longer play with a shotgun due to my love of the Flare Gun). I’m going to try out every class over the next few days, and also attempt some popular alternative layouts, such as Demoknight (I may have to buy the items involved, unless someone here gifts/trades me for some). I will then post my complete findings here for your enjoyment.

That’s something I emphasized earlier. An upgraded scattergun has a high DPS making it better against tanks than one may think.

I always upgrade reload speed first (after getting the mad milk slowing ability which is even more important). It’s the quickest way to maximize the scatterguns firepower. With that, you can get through the first rounds just fine without needing your team to carry you

Max reload speed, max damage and a bit into ammo capacity is all you need. The rest can go into resistances or fire rate

I would have gone Mad Milk, but the server wouldn’t connect to the item server.
So I played default. If you don’t use Mad Milk, you can pour all your credits into the scattergun.

The best one I’ve seen are when the Sniper Bots taunt. They raise their arm and flail their hand around like it’s broken.

9/10 would definitely bang

Is Crit-a-Cola any good for MvM? I just unlocked it last night, but I don’t know anything about how useful the items are.

I dunno bout the crit-a-cola on MvM, but based on its effect, I would guess it would be useful, depending on the wave. It might not be as useful on, say, melee heavies, who get mini-crits anyways, but on giant rounds, or soldiers, or most other waves, it could be useful.

Also, if anyone here wants to, I might start a MvM party soon. It would be nice to play with people here, who know what they’re doing, instead of the idiots I’ve been matched with all day. Steam Message if you want to, my username’s the same.

The cola could be useful for maximising damage so long as you can avoid getting hit (May not be a problem for the scout of you keep collecting cash but demomen may be deadly). I have not tried it before since I favor the Mad milk but the speed/damage tradeoff could be worth it.

I think Jackal has tried using the Cola before in MVM, he might be able to give us his review

Yeah, I don’t have the Mad Milk item, and honestly, I don’t really plan on giving Valve any money until they can learn to count to three.

I’ve used Crit-a-Cola. It’s best for when there’s only a tank left and you need to do more damage. Also, if you’re only really using your primary, the pistol is not needed and could be replaced. Mad Milk is probably better.

I always use Mad Milk.

If I ever get it, cause as I said, I don’t have said item.

I think Jackal has tried using the Cola before in MVM, he might be able to give us his review

LOL, that’s about the only Scout secondary I haven’t tried. I would reccomend using it with the Shortstop if you try it, though. The accuracy of it makes it much easier to stay away and stay alive with those mini-crits. Like Wsxdas said, it’ll be great on tanks. It should also be great for fighting melee enemies.

Yeah, I don’t have the Mad Milk item, and honestly, I don’t really plan on giving Valve any money until they can learn to count to three.

You could always just trade a scrap for it.

@Everyone
Speaking of trading, I just found a great site for buying and selling stuff called TF2 trading post. You can post offers for anything you want to sell, or you can look through the offers other people have posted. It makes it easy to find what you want, and you can look through the offers other people have posted, so you might be able to get what you want for cheaper. The Point and Shoot goes for 3 keys on the spreadsheet, but it sells for about 4 ref on tf2tp.

Well someone here said they used the Cola to some great effect. If it wasn’t you I cannot remember who it was.

Might as well try it myself so I don’t have to refer to anybody

Hey Blue Screen, did you get the speed upgrades on MVM with the Baby Face Blaster? Did you go even faster, or did it cap?

Babyface upgrades do not stack with speed perks, so it’s pointless.

That suuuuuuuuucks! D:

Thanks for telling me, though.

Also, if anyone else is wondering, no buff on the Force-a-Nature will increase the jumps on it. That also sucks. I wish stuff like that would stack.

I think I’ll give it a try next time I play Scout and see how it goes, and hopefully I can get more items to turn to scrap so I get get the Mad Milk item as well.

Also, figures, the one item I ask about is the one he hasn’t tried, heh, oh well.

LOL, yeah, sorry about that man, but I’ve been having WAY too much fun with melee loadouts on MVM! XD It’s fun, but crit-a-cola would work terrible on a melee scout. And have you posted your Steam profile here, Sketch? I don’t think I’ve added you yet.

Mad Milk can help your teammates out a lot.
Also, I’m thinking of going Shortstop sometime.