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KYM Pony General VI: Return of the Poni

Last posted Apr 19, 2013 at 12:20AM EDT. Added Jul 01, 2012 at 04:43PM EDT
10167 posts from 235 users

Ever since ponies discovered magic, they wanted to control everything on Earth. They wanted to control the weather, the seasons, and when the sun and moon rise (they wanted to make it so that the moon only comes out at night). There are some things that come naturally, but it’s mostly magic in the future.

Speaking of the future, I tried asking Doctor Whooves if he could use the TARDIS to send me back in time.

He said he has no idea what I’m talking about, but I know he’s lying.

I just don’t know what to do. I can’t hide from the royal guard forever.

Nov 03, 2012 at 11:04AM EDT
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@PopperFett
I forgot this reason myself, most kings do not assign themselves titles, historians and their people do during their reign or after. I listed the reasons why he is know as the sun king including the ties of the Sun with Apollo, his title endured after his reign because he was the best ruler of France, the people of France and historians know that so he deserves that title, even long after his reign, they did not blindly accept that title like you are asserting. If his reign was horrific to his people while he used the Sun as his symbol and appointed himself, Sun King, we would be reffing to him as Louis the Terrible because that is how we assessed him looking back on the past through his actions. Ivan the Terrible was known as Ivan IV during his reign, he never gave himself the title, The Terrible. That title was assigned to him after his reign ended by the assessment of historians and his people which concluded that through his heinous acts that he committed during his reign, he completely deserved the title “The Terrible”. History is not ratified by oneself, it is ratified by the interpretation of others.

Last edited Nov 03, 2012 at 11:33AM EDT
Nov 03, 2012 at 11:30AM EDT
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Jacob wrote:

@ZeroBlue4 “Would a pony who “turned the earth” get the sun as a mark?”
Like I said earlier, If we go with this hypotheses that she turns the planet, to the perspective of anyone who mattered, she is moving the sun. Planet side, the sun would “move” to her wishes, and really, that would ultimately have the exact effect planet wise, controlling how the sun rises , moves through, and sets in the sky.

Also, the odd weather patterns I don’t think discredit the heliocentric model by default. The seasons here are caused by a tilt in the Earth’s axis. Perhaps this is not present there. Alternatively, it may be that the weather/seasons do change on their own, but it is so slow and gradual that doing thing manually is the best solution. Basically, I interpreted weather control as the pony equivalent to irrigation.

I won’t say the Heliocentric model is impossible for them… but the problem is that its improbable.

Like another said… and I shall expand; The tilt in their planet must be “perfectly” un-tilted, must have a “perfectly” circular orbit, and be “perfectly” distanced in relation to the sun.

…And I’m quite certain that “perfect” is something that has a near zero percent chance of happening, regardless of which world we’re talking. It’s a fundamental prerequisite to complex existence itself that nothing be perfect according to science.

Sure, we’re talking magic here, but magic from what we’ve seen can be wildly imperfect sometimes as well, as with the case of mice turned into horses… that don’t quite look… Horse enough.

As for the cutie mark problem; I see it as a problem of how honest or dishonest the cutie mark can actually be, or has to be.

Rainbow Dash’s is blunt; she’s as fast as lightning.
Rarity’s is also blunt; She’s good at working with things that shine like diamonds.
Applejack… No need for elaboration…

and so on.

So far, the symbolism of the cutie mark tends towards literal truth if possible first, before moving to more abstract concepts. And they tend not to do things like pull “jedi truths” of saying things like “from our perspective”.

In the end, the cutie mark ends up being very much the image equivalent of being “literal”. Or at least as literal as possible.

One could argue Cherilee’s doesn’t fit that, but really, that’s more because the broad focus of her talent required use of linguistic metaphor to explain visually. But what makes it fit into line with my theory is that it does not pull any “from our perspective” style lies.

The Cutie mark is in essence unable to tell half truths, and is at best only able to be poetic about the task it refers to.

And so Celestia having a sun cutie mark can only mean either things involving the sun, or where the sun is the only symbol that fits. Being “the guiding light of truth” as a talent may be acceptable, or perhaps “a beacon of hope”.

But if the literal truth were that she turns the earth, then that would be right out; and the most we’d see of the sun in her cutie mark would be a terrestrial eclipse where the earth passes between observer and sun; so as to look like a sunrise over one side.

I find it hard to believe that a cutie mark would attempt to obscure the objective truth. As not even when a cutie mark is being poetic does it attempt to make such a half truth. Its simply not that clever. In fact, for them to tell a half truth would be against its function of giving a brief but important message about their talents to anyone that needed them in a hurry.

Imagine what it would be like if “Half truths” were the norm for cutie marks:
Pony one: Are you a doctor? You’ve got a medical symbol cutie mark! We need your medical skill urgently!
Pony two: Actually… It only “Appears” like my talent is healing from our perspective. What I actually do is bring happiness to others by “healing” their emotional wounds. Not physical ones.
Pony one: Then why doesn’t your Cutie mark look like “Mending a heart” or something?
Pony two: Umm…

Its counter productive to have a cutie mark that works in ways that obscure the truth. And if Celestia’s talent was involving “Changing the earth’s relation to the sun”, then that would be obscuring the truth in a similar way to a “Not a doctor, I just look like one”.

And the ability to cause solar Flares that burn others that “manipulation of the sun” would confer is an entirely different issue to the ability to cause earthquakes that “manipulation of the earth” as a talent would confer.

Need a “TL:DR” Summary?

Part 1: The chances of Equestria having a perfect heliocentric orbit are enormously small!
Part 2: Cutie marks, do not tell half truths… Period!

Last edited Nov 03, 2012 at 02:57PM EDT
Nov 03, 2012 at 02:45PM EDT
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Disturbed B wrote:

Ever since ponies discovered magic, they wanted to control everything on Earth. They wanted to control the weather, the seasons, and when the sun and moon rise (they wanted to make it so that the moon only comes out at night). There are some things that come naturally, but it’s mostly magic in the future.

Speaking of the future, I tried asking Doctor Whooves if he could use the TARDIS to send me back in time.

He said he has no idea what I’m talking about, but I know he’s lying.

I just don’t know what to do. I can’t hide from the royal guard forever.

I think there be another solution… Currently believed to be working as a dentist, but has a knack for time related magics.

Nov 03, 2012 at 05:03PM EDT
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@ZeroBlue4 I’ll don’t know how there is a way to make a blanket statement about cutie marks like that. For all we know, it could be influenced as to what they believe their special talent is. (See Trixie). When Celestia got her mark, (under the heliocentric hypothesis) she may have believed she was literally moving the sun. Also, there is the “if a tree falls in the forest”. If the only observers of the sun are on Equestria’s planet, does it really matter if she is moving the sun or the planet? It is still controlling the sun for every living thing known in existence. As far as I know, cutie marks themselves aren’t the really aware of the universe on a grand scale.

Also, I think I got lost, but I don’t get how the “perfect circular” orbit versus a oblong orbit play into all of this. As for the non perpendicular axis to orbit: (mass speculation here), the axis may have been like Earth’s but because of reasons, it went out of whack causing huge and massive seasonal changes that were difficult to survive in, creating a reason for needing something to fix it (Celestia). The only certain safe way to fix the planet was to make an axis perpendicular to the orbit and have manual weather as a result.

Nov 03, 2012 at 08:09PM EDT
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Jacob wrote:

@ZeroBlue4 I’ll don’t know how there is a way to make a blanket statement about cutie marks like that. For all we know, it could be influenced as to what they believe their special talent is. (See Trixie). When Celestia got her mark, (under the heliocentric hypothesis) she may have believed she was literally moving the sun. Also, there is the “if a tree falls in the forest”. If the only observers of the sun are on Equestria’s planet, does it really matter if she is moving the sun or the planet? It is still controlling the sun for every living thing known in existence. As far as I know, cutie marks themselves aren’t the really aware of the universe on a grand scale.

Also, I think I got lost, but I don’t get how the “perfect circular” orbit versus a oblong orbit play into all of this. As for the non perpendicular axis to orbit: (mass speculation here), the axis may have been like Earth’s but because of reasons, it went out of whack causing huge and massive seasonal changes that were difficult to survive in, creating a reason for needing something to fix it (Celestia). The only certain safe way to fix the planet was to make an axis perpendicular to the orbit and have manual weather as a result.

The problem with the idea that Celestia’s Mark be what she believes the cutie mark is has a few flaws.

For unicorns, and thus Alicorns as well, it can reasonably be assumed that in order to cast magic, they have to have an understanding of what they are doing, as well as what they are focusing on.

If Celestia is focusing her magic at the earth, then unless she’s very gullible (which I doubt) then she knows full well she’s not moving the sun. Hence, no sun cutie mark.

And usually, an unicorn or alicorn’s entire magic set is influenced to some degree by their talent; as Twilight mentions that most unicorns get just enough spells to help with their talents. And if anyone recall: Celestia has been shown brimming with solar energy at least once. (Friendship is magic part 2 ,Lesson Zero, Etc.)

Also, the Cutie mark only shows up when the pony discovers what their talent “really” is. If they get close but don’t quite grasp it, it doesn’t show up; as is the case with the cutie mark crusaders. They can’t just believe they know what it is, they have to know for it to show up in the first place.

Working backwards, we can assume that if Sweetie Belle found she’s good at violin or something, but her talent is singing, her cutie mark shouldn’t show up, but she’ll be driven in the right path to discovering singing as her talent.

Edit: This kind of idea happened once. Rarity believed her talent was fashion; and kept pushing herself at it. But the problem was she hadn’t figured out that her talent was for… “shiny stuff”, or “flashy stuff”… whatever, it turned out her specific talent involved making her dresses out of gems.

As for Trixie, her talent is more an approximation of using magic for entertainment. Popular theory is that everything about her is an act of showmanship.


If you’re so set on a Heliocentric model… Here’s a proposal…

Celestia’s talent really is solar manipulation. However some time in the past while learning to deal with taking up Luna’s job as well; she found it was easier to build up the size of the sun, and have the planet orbit it.

And using what she learned from Luna, she now uses those skills to turn the planet and bring forth the day instead of her own. And her own Talents can now be directed squarely at controlling the properties of the sun as opposed to its position.

Fair enough?

Last edited Nov 03, 2012 at 09:13PM EDT
Nov 03, 2012 at 08:54PM EDT
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ZeroBlue4 I guess you’re right on the focusing bit, but I still think that, if you are controlling a the way a planet receives sunlight, it is, for all intensive purposes, controlling the sun, no matter if it is the sun moving around the planet or the planet moving around the sun.

As for your proposal, it isn’t bad, but puts into question which came first, Celestia or the planet. I doubt that Celestia was around before the planet was formed, and it is suggested that she was not active until after the events that inspired Hearth’s Warming Eve (although I may just be misremembering). IMO, A heliocentric model allows for a sun to exist before Celestia, that was able to function for the planet without exterior forces. Discord could have thrown things out of whack, creating a reason to correct them. Of course, you could always work some way around this (time travel, other being(s) controlled the sun before her, the sun really is not a “sun” as we know it)

Last edited Nov 03, 2012 at 09:38PM EDT
Nov 03, 2012 at 09:32PM EDT
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Jacob wrote:

ZeroBlue4 I guess you’re right on the focusing bit, but I still think that, if you are controlling a the way a planet receives sunlight, it is, for all intensive purposes, controlling the sun, no matter if it is the sun moving around the planet or the planet moving around the sun.

As for your proposal, it isn’t bad, but puts into question which came first, Celestia or the planet. I doubt that Celestia was around before the planet was formed, and it is suggested that she was not active until after the events that inspired Hearth’s Warming Eve (although I may just be misremembering). IMO, A heliocentric model allows for a sun to exist before Celestia, that was able to function for the planet without exterior forces. Discord could have thrown things out of whack, creating a reason to correct them. Of course, you could always work some way around this (time travel, other being(s) controlled the sun before her, the sun really is not a “sun” as we know it)

I personally like the idea I came up with that their sun/was extremely small compared to our world’s one. Small and light enough to orbit their planet; and possibly not volatile enough to burn anything from that distance until Celestia came around.

As for which came first…

Personally, I have a… tenuous idea of how the world of MLP formed. With comes with various versions suited to various interpretations.

Version 1: The Pie Family
-Under this interpretation, Pinkie Pie’s family dredged up the raw materials for the world from some strange area a long time ago; similar to creation myths about drawing the world out of the sea. And theoretically they could build the world whichever way they wanted. But not having much of an idea of how to do so, they may have made the prototype sun that Celestia would eventually control, but at that time would have been small. Then much later, in the earliest recorded history, unicorns are moving the prototype sun around the planet to maintain healthy levels of effects of sunlight . And eventually, Celestia manages to bind herself to that sun (Which could later lead to my proposal of her increasing the sun’s size to have the planet orbit it.). Pinkie Pie’s presence in Equestria could have to do with Time travel, immortality or simply reincarnation.

-Theory Reliability: Far fetched, but possible.

Version 2: Pulled out of Sea of chaos
-Assume that Discord is not the first of his kind. Perhaps some other being of extreme chaos, maybe even another version of him, just happened to bring the world into existence. And their influence shaped a prototypical Equestria. Only for them to leave, and whatever magics where left in that place “stabilized” for a while, and those that knew how to use them used them to move the sun in the sky. Which had always “just been there”, but in reality was placed in the sky to be moved around the planet by the chaotic precursors; the fact that it would have moved around the planet being their idea of a joke; which may or may not have been cruel. Celestia eventually ascends and ties herself to the sun. And from there, we set ourselves up for the proposal if we still find it necessary.

Theory Reliability: Plausible

Version 3: Equestria as a Dream World.
-As an obligatory “Left field” idea, lets assume that Equestria is weaved into physical form from the understandings, myths, ideas, dreams, and more; of some outside force. And the main rule for how it works is for it not to have any contradictions, or other things that would have a logical break down. And as many ancient cultures have a myth where the sun goes around the earth, or is raised in the sky, that is reflected in Equestria. As such, that fact couldn’t be contradicted unless Celestia changed the dynamic herself when she “realized” there was a better way to have the dynamic work.

-Theory Reliability: Crazy… But awesome.


And for fun, let me discuss my fun musings on the Planet-centric model for Equestria… which I still support because it sounds so fun.

Personally the system that I like to think of with Equestria works with their sun naturally being a similar size and/or mass to both their planet and their moon. And the moon be at a similar distance away from their planet as their sun in the opposite direction. From there, each side of Equestria could naturally be locked to one or the other in normal direction; with the sun and Moon both orbiting in the same direction, following each other.

From there, the princesses can move the sun and moon relative the the planet which is already in spinning motion. And since the sun and moon would already be in motion, it would be a simple matter of accelerating or decelerating the speed that the sun and moon move at.

…The only problem would be that it might also cause the planet itself to spin faster, which could do anything from Time dilation to messing with the ratio of gravity to centrifugal force (which may explain how pegasus can fly with under proportioned wings.)

At some point, perhaps already happened, perhaps not, some pony may make observations that make them realize the planet is spinning. And then, the princesses will look at each other with a sheepish grin before putting the breaks on the planet’s rotation. And then the princesses should have no more need to move the sun and moon in the sky right?

…Unless it turns out they are both moving extremely fast round the planet. Causing an effect similar to what discord did (Theories on discord being the spirit of the planet itself, incoming!)

And then they go back to the old system if they happen to have figured out that the sun and moon spinning around them keeps them from colliding with each other, or that physics is much more forgiving when they are spinning.


Also related: in real science, the sun doesn’t just pull the earth, the earth pulls the sun just the tiniest bit. As does every other body in the sky. Gravity is a two way street.


… And its at this point I realize something…

This

Is

STUPID!

Who cares the exact details, Celestia, Luna, Discord; they could all probably use whichever method they wanted to make it work. And may even switch between methods for various effects during the year. Hey, Discord is almost guaranteed to switch around which orbited which for comedic reasons, back and forth.

What’s important is this:

Celestia has the powers of the sun: who cares which way she uses them?

Luna has the powers of the moon: who cares which way she uses them?

Discord is chaos… Who cares… Just… who cares? It’s chaos! he don’t have to explain stuff.

Just… stay calm… and enjoy the ponies.

…excuse me for a second while I compose myself.

(This break down brought to you by a Homestuck running gag.)

Edit: It’s like some old Philosophy person’s musings once when, something about a man circling a tree, and a squirrel on the tree circling on the other side. When the question of if the man was also circling the squirrel or not came up; some chap said “This is stupid! The distinction doesn’t matter yet!”

Last edited Nov 03, 2012 at 11:42PM EDT
Nov 03, 2012 at 11:17PM EDT
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Breaking KYM Forum News: The Mane 6 are the first team to die in the Hut/Heal Team Edition Tournament. Many Bronies were shocked that The Mane 6 could not handle The Avengers, The Simpsons, The Straw Hat Crew, nor The Power Rangers.

Nov 03, 2012 at 11:46PM EDT
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@ZeroBlue4: Thanks for throwing in the MST3K mantra. I was about to do that myself. Anyways: Edited: disregard previously posted information in this area

Last edited Nov 04, 2012 at 12:43AM EDT
Nov 04, 2012 at 12:24AM EDT
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@Jacob: I see you asked for reasoning for a perfect circular orbit. Here’s why I think so:

  • Seasons need to be artificially changed by ponies. This means that the orbit of the planet is not eccentric enough to cause temperature changes. The thing is, it doesn’t take much eccentricity to cause a change in temperature.
  • At the same time, the “seasons” do not need to be maintained, as far as we know. More proof that temperature changes very little.

However, I would not necessarily say that Equestria has a perpendicular axis. We don’t know how much of the pony planet we’ve actually seen, and for all we know, only half of the planet may be inhabited. We simply can’t know. However, if the whole planet is inhabited, that may require an axis in a small range.

Note that I’m not endorsing a heliocentric model, only explaining the only way it could work. I still believe in a terracentric model for the Pony Planet.

Nov 04, 2012 at 12:38AM EDT
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@Twilitlord the Chef Pony: the seasons are affected more by the axis of the Earth than the orbit. Theoretically, if the Earth had a perfectly circular orbit, but still had its axis on a tilt, you would still see seasonal variation similar to what we have now.

Nov 04, 2012 at 12:58AM EDT
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You could build an entire house out of all these walls of text. I’m impressed, I guess.


In other news though, I’ve been trying to stop listening to pony music so I can sleep for the past two hours. It’s 12 AM now. Guys, I think I have a problem. Winter Wrap Up and This Day Aria are part of my consciousness now. I’m afraid to speak out loud else I spontaneously break into song. Wat do?

Nov 04, 2012 at 01:20AM EDT
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Lunar Protege wrote:

I think there be another solution… Currently believed to be working as a dentist, but has a knack for time related magics.

I tried asking her for help. She’s no good either.

So many ponies with hour glass cutie marks and yet NONE OF THEM ADMIT TO BEING TIME LORDS!!!!

Nov 04, 2012 at 01:24AM EDT
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Jacob wrote:

@Twilitlord the Chef Pony: the seasons are affected more by the axis of the Earth than the orbit. Theoretically, if the Earth had a perfectly circular orbit, but still had its axis on a tilt, you would still see seasonal variation similar to what we have now.

Gah, you’re right. I knew that, but for some reason it slipped my mind. Astronomy is really my little brother’s area of expertise.

Nov 04, 2012 at 01:32AM EDT
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Jacob wrote:

@ZeroBlue4: Thanks for throwing in the MST3K mantra. I was about to do that myself. Anyways: Edited: disregard previously posted information in this area

I had no idea I was invoking the MST3K mantra until you mentioned it. /shrug

And I have no idea what information was previously posted.

… All I know is…

…um… I don’t know… other than… maybe that…

…the inside of my head sounds like an endless remix!

Pictured: an illustration of how my brain cells must work.

Nov 04, 2012 at 09:47AM EST
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Here’s something odd I noticed…

In the last few days before a new season of a loved show airs… things get quiet… people stop posting as frequently on the forums… possibly preparing for the premiere…

And then once it airs, the forums get flooded.

Is this a “well duh!” moment or is this a legitimate observation?

Nov 04, 2012 at 09:13PM EST
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Lunar Protege wrote:

Here’s something odd I noticed…

In the last few days before a new season of a loved show airs… things get quiet… people stop posting as frequently on the forums… possibly preparing for the premiere…

And then once it airs, the forums get flooded.

Is this a “well duh!” moment or is this a legitimate observation?

Hello, Tim here.

Excellent question, too bad I am not an expert on this, but I will pretend too be one. I think it is mainly the build up to the premiere; we wait silently so we can all discuss the new season with a clean slate, and also this time of the year tends to be stressful with the increased workload of this season. So I can say that is a legitimate observation.

Last edited Nov 04, 2012 at 09:33PM EST
Nov 04, 2012 at 09:28PM EST
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It’s not my fault! It was all a big misunderstanding! Now Celestia wants me.

Last edited Nov 04, 2012 at 10:35PM EST
Nov 04, 2012 at 10:35PM EST
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Disturbed B wrote:

It’s not my fault! It was all a big misunderstanding! Now Celestia wants me.

I’m not sure if you’re roleplaying.
But if so, why are you roleplaying here on a discussion thread?

Nov 04, 2012 at 10:38PM EST
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Lone K.K. Slider wrote:

I’m not sure if you’re roleplaying.
But if so, why are you roleplaying here on a discussion thread?

Oni-chinchin you baka~!

(Seriously though, this isn’t a discussion thread, topic just happens to spawn that. As long as he doesn’t overdue I’m perfectly fine with it.)
Last edited Nov 04, 2012 at 11:24PM EST
Nov 04, 2012 at 11:11PM EST
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So I was at the mall today, hanging around since I was going to see Wreck-It Ralph, and I checked the local Hot Topic again and got my vinyl Derpy. They didn’t have it last time so I wanted to check it again and they had it.

Nov 04, 2012 at 11:19PM EST
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On the subject of vinyl Derpys, apparently the current run that came out this week touched up the cutie mark. If you have a first run, you now have what could become a very valuable item. I am pretty jelly of you all.

Nov 04, 2012 at 11:22PM EST
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Twilitlord wrote:

On the subject of vinyl Derpys, apparently the current run that came out this week touched up the cutie mark. If you have a first run, you now have what could become a very valuable item. I am pretty jelly of you all.

Not sure which one I have to be honest.

Nov 04, 2012 at 11:42PM EST
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I actually have two of the first wave Derpy vinyls in my possession, but I’m not so sure if collectors will really care too much about the now-limited edition.

@Coily, below

Check the price tag, her name is actually on it.

Last edited Nov 05, 2012 at 12:08AM EST
Nov 04, 2012 at 11:45PM EST
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Nope, rechecked, I have one of the repainted Derpys, but oh well, that’s fine with me as long as I have one.

Interesting though, Derpy is not mentioned on the box, more then likely for all the obvious reasons.

Last edited Nov 05, 2012 at 12:09AM EST
Nov 05, 2012 at 12:05AM EST
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It makes both sides happy. The fans see it as a shoutout and the haters enjoy that he might be calling it stupid.

I however love his lines for that costume, nothing but hilarity there.

Nov 05, 2012 at 12:53AM EST
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I got around to listening to some people on a podcast discussing the Mane six’s personalities and so on.

One thing that made me ponder… was the observation that Rarity usually ends up turning the ways she helps others into a way to help herself.

So here’s a question:

Is helping others and managing to benefit from it enough to qualify as “Generosity”? Or does she have to be completely selfless in each act?

From what the show depicts, the general answer seems to be “so long as she’s willing to go out of her way to help others, then so what if she benefits as well”. Meaning the show may consider being willing to work towards mutual benefit as a kind of generosity; provided she puts just as much effort into her friend’s side of things as her own.

After all, it’s the element of “Generosity” not “Self-less-ness” and especially not “Self-less-ness to the point of self-destruction”.

And then of course… there’s the fact she insists on making the best quality dresses possible, and seems to give them away to repay favors that seems trivial in comparison; at least in terms of monetary and effort value, as you’ll note with her giving away the gala dresses and only asking that others know who made them.

What both the podcast that began this line of thought, and my own musings have come to is this:

Does Rarity’s need to be respected by others somehow devalue her generosity? Or does it simply mean she cares just as much for others’ success as she does for her own?

Or, Third option: What if her generosity actually started when she wanted attention from others, possibly because she was lonely, and found the best way to do so was to be a genuinely good help to others in some way.

…Well… Either way, she is definitely as much of an attention seeker as Dash. She’s just more subtle about it.

Nov 05, 2012 at 12:58AM EST
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Ashki wrote:

It makes both sides happy. The fans see it as a shoutout and the haters enjoy that he might be calling it stupid.

I however love his lines for that costume, nothing but hilarity there.

I’m not acquainted with the situation… but the video linked also seemed to have a line not long after that sounded like “Brush heavy’s hair” or something to that effect.

… As in… “Brushie, Brushie” maybe?

My brain is weird right now. I need to go remix my brain patterns.

Edit: Also. “The Friendship is Stupid Magic” line sounds like it has inflection that implies that… Yes, Friendship IS magic, but it’s nothing compared to Black Magic which is easier for guys of his kind to use.

/Shrug

Last edited Nov 05, 2012 at 02:27AM EST
Nov 05, 2012 at 02:22AM EST
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@Heavy: The Friendship is Stupid Magic it’s a clear reference for MLP. And coming from Valve, it’s clearly a reference to just toy with the poor souls of the players.

Bye guys, see you in a few days!

A new adventure awaits me!

Nov 05, 2012 at 10:15AM EST
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@ Rarity and generosity

First of all the mane six do not always represent their elements. This is good, because it shows that the characters are not one dimensional. They often struggle with their elements and do not live up to them. In Party for One for instance, you see the element of honesty struggle with telling lies. This makes the characters believable, relateable and additionaly fun to watch.

In the end you won’t see Rarity beeing generous 24/7, but that doesn’t mean that she never shows her element. We have those at least two clear instances: The moustache tail extension and the dresses for the gala. She never asked the others, if they would like those dresses, no she insisted on doing them and she even remade all of them. She invested a lot of money and time fabricating those dresses. This is clearly an act of genorisity.

Additionally Equestria doesn’t seem to be a poor world, there are no homeless ponies around begging for bits, so you will never see the steorotypical “genorosity”.

How do you define genorosity? Is selflessness a part of it? Well i don’t think that this is a must.

All in all: Rarity can be greedy and that’s okay! It also underlines those (rare) generous acts.

Nov 05, 2012 at 11:16AM EST
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@Rarity

Another thing that you have to remember about Rarity is that she runs her own business. It makes sense that she would think about things in an economic way. I mean, if the can make her friends happy while profiting a little herself, then why not? She has to make a living somehow, and as ZeroBlue said above, selflessness to the point of self-destruction is not what she represents.

Bottom line is that her struggles between generosity and personal gain are what make her an interesting and fun character. Seriously, characters without any faults at all are just boring…

Nov 05, 2012 at 01:07PM EST
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@Rarity

I would assume Rarity, along with everyone else, experiences some form of personal struggle. Despite being element of Generosity, she naturally has the desire for personal gain, causing a conflict.

This is natural in everything, and is a common practice in fiction, and even in modern society. One is usually attributed to a set of morals or a code, but they always find some sort of temptation. Like Commodore said, a character that is too perfect is a bit boring.

Now I would like to bring up a point that was made to me on another site that I wish to discuss with you:


Equestria’s Military: Where is it?

It’s mostly confirmed in the series that Equestria has some sort of military, not just the Royal Guard. But the questions raised are when was it used, is it in use at the present, and what level of technology it is of?

Now, the Guard is depicted as somewhat archaic and traditional. Helmets, armor, and archaic weapons seem to be in their inventory. Basically, the ideal escort for a fantasy-story royalty.

However, with the other discussion we had, we’ve established how large Equestria must be. Or, at least the planet. Either way, they’re practically surrounded by security threats. Changelings that want to take over, Griffons that pose a territorial threat, Zebras in an unknown direction, Dragons…pretty much the need for a standing army.

The Guard seemingly, however, too small to defend an ENTIRE nation. At most, they’re only effective in guarding Canterlot. Should any other portion of the land be invaded, they would be ineffective and easily defeated, compromising the safety of the entire country.

So, that’s point one: A standing army must be present to defend the nation.

But that leads me to another point: what level of technology is this army equipped with?

Now, the Guard may be armed with swords and spears, but Equestria is seemingly past this age, with numerous modern or semi-modern technologies present in the series (such as Pinkie Pie’s Sam Fisher-esque goggles )

Another hint is this from Dragon Quest:

They’re obviously wearing some sort of woodland camo. Twilight’s even got an M1 Helmet used by the U.S. military from 1941 – 1985. The purpose of such helmets was to defend against shrapnel and bullets.

That last phrase gave us a clue. If there’s a helmet like that, then that means there has to be firearms in Equestria’s arsenal. And yet the Guard and other martial references in the series point to a more archaic style.

My theory is that Equestria’s royal guard is more like Honor Guards from nations such as the Royal Life Guards of the U.K. or the Swiss Guard of the Vatican City. The Guard has ceremonial dress and armament, but does have an expanded arsenal. And the Guard is naturally not enough for an entire nation’s safekeeping, so there is a standing military that can deal with militaristic affairs.

The question is now where was it when it could have been so effective?

Was it:

- Present, but otherwise located in the nation and/or unable to assist at the time (since most of the crises happened in either Ponyville or Canterlot)

- Fighting a war in a distant land, much like how the U.N Coalition fights in Afghanistan today against insurgency, thereby being unable to rotate back fast enough to deal with these crises.

- Incapacitated in each of these crises. Cut off from the danger zone, otherwise convinced not to fight, or simply prevented from making it to the crisis zone on time.

Last edited Nov 05, 2012 at 05:29PM EST
Nov 05, 2012 at 05:28PM EST
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@Equestrian Millitary.

There does seem to be evidence of several different kinds of defense forces, and that even some of them being multi-tasked out to other jobs on the side.

I particularly note that the Wonderbolts have been seen fighting off Spike when he’s in kaiju form.

As for the (So far side question) of why the royal guard wears metal Armour when the possibility of guns exists, I think one has to remember that there’s a lot of different kinds of threats that would be likely for them to deal with. Different tools for different jobs.

Naturally, a royal guard assumes a threat from either the same country, or from a variety of crazed monsters that might come by. As such, they have their Armour to protect from attacks from both horns, and the wings of a pegasus that turns out are actually quite sharp. There is also presumably a moderate boost to impact damage.

As for a more modern military, with guns and whatnot, even with the show’s occasional breaks from logic where ponies can pick up objects with hooves, guns would still be remarkably awkward for them to use. And as such would be mostly only effective for them in cases where the other side also had guns and could use them effectively enough to give them a hard time getting into close combat. As such, it would probably be a smaller, more specialized force than might be expected of their real world counterparts.

Other than that, I’m not sure I can give a definitive answer on the issues.

But if we were to use D&D logic (which works with a 70% certainty when it comes to this show), one would assume that most civilians have at least a minor level of ability to fight for themselves when needed. Which looks plausible when one considers that in Appleoosa has the entire town fighting with the Buffalo, and the Mane 6 fight on a semi-regular basis (which along with sneaking around a lot in black Lycra leads by to believe they’re all ninjas, and that ponyville is full of them).

So for some reason, I’m getting a feeling that whatever military Equestria has is mostly a formality, called into action only when there’s a fairly dire threat involved. Which so far has been limited to one… that they weren’t able to show up for.

So while I suppose a full military does exist, I doubt it sees much use. And probably sees a lot of its time pass by drinking cider down at the local pub, bar, club, or tavern.

Nov 05, 2012 at 07:53PM EST
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The closest thing I’ve seen to a military in Equestria is the royal guard. Though I will say they act more like police officers and security guards than a military, as seen in “A Bird in the Hoof.”

As for the helmet, I think it’s used for decoration and not for actual combat.


Why does Rarity own a camouflage helmet? For fashion maybe? I don’t know where I’m going with this.

I’m not saying that Equestria doesn’t have a military. They probably do exist, but I haven’t seen them.

Nov 05, 2012 at 08:49PM EST
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@Equestrian Military

I prefer the scenario that Equestria genuinely has never needed anything more than the royal guard to keep order, and that they only need basic law enforcement for all the lawbreaking that occurs. And that it is simply by chance that for a basic helmet, the same design for a 20th century helmet was used. And the camo pattern is just common sense for someone who needs to sneak around. I like the thought of universes that have had to overcome staggering improbabilities in order to exist.

Don’t get me wrong, I have enjoyed reading everyone’s over-analytic posts (a common delight around here, it seems), but at the same time I like keeping my headcanon Equestria a peaceful, non-militant place.

Nov 05, 2012 at 09:04PM EST
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Supreme the Lurking Monitor wrote:

@Equestrian Military

I prefer the scenario that Equestria genuinely has never needed anything more than the royal guard to keep order, and that they only need basic law enforcement for all the lawbreaking that occurs. And that it is simply by chance that for a basic helmet, the same design for a 20th century helmet was used. And the camo pattern is just common sense for someone who needs to sneak around. I like the thought of universes that have had to overcome staggering improbabilities in order to exist.

Don’t get me wrong, I have enjoyed reading everyone’s over-analytic posts (a common delight around here, it seems), but at the same time I like keeping my headcanon Equestria a peaceful, non-militant place.

Oh, Equestria can be a non-militant place in some sense and still have a working Military…

…Its just that military probably does jack all.

I couldn’t Find a proper image to explain using soldier ponies, or even the royal guards, but considering the wonderbolts are practically the military anyways, I may have one that does.

Their Tax dollars at work people!

Someone tell Celestia her investment in military is drunk.

Nov 05, 2012 at 10:36PM EST
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@Equestria Military

I like what ZeroBlue says in some ways, some ways I have to disagree

I doubt the Equestrian military is plain ineffective or drunk, so I’d go with either b) or c) from my previous post. The Equestrian military is either otherwise engaged in a foreign conflict or is not able to respond quick enough (due to whatever reason) to the threats that are imposed rather immediately.

For the existence of gunpowder weapons in Equestria, Pinkie Pie does have a party cannon

As for ponies with guns, I say it’s possible, but is a bit more complicated than man using a gun. For one, I would say a larger trigger is needed to accommodate hooves, and easier magazine change (drum mags, magpul on a box mag, or a dropmag (magazine ejects with a push of a button or when the clip is emptied)) would be effective. For movement, bipods could be used. Now the latter is pushing it, so it may be that they’re restricted to semi-mobile or emplaced weaponry (like the Mk. 19 grenade launcher or the Browning M1919 ). They would also need helmets and such to defend against this kind of warfare (assuming that griffons, mules, and zebras [the latter of which I can imagine running around with AK’s] are smart enough to use these kinds of weapons too).

To sum up: present, modern (for the most part), but was unable to respond to the crises that are presented in the show due to whatever reason

Last edited Nov 05, 2012 at 11:31PM EST
Nov 05, 2012 at 11:30PM EST
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@The rumored acquiring of Hasbro by Disney:
Two reasons I don’t like this: good shows have been shown to stop production when going through the legal shuffle (see Spectacular Spider-Man). Although I doubt (or at least hope) that something as poplar as MLP:FIM isn’t among those, it could experience drastic changes in animation style/ producers/ quality in general. There is always the possibility that it could become objectively “better” but changing things that don’t need it is rarely done well.

Second is unrelated to FIM, but is a personal concern. If the company that owns Star Wars/ Disney films also makes toys, there is little likelihood that they will license out to make toys, and instead make their own. Independent toy companies like LEGO may not be able to make Star Wars/ Disney product unless Disney somehow purchased them.

EDIT: Also, this isn’t even considering the MUCH stricter standards that Disney has on Intellectual Property. Assuming their current/ past actions are anything to go one, episodes will be much harder to find online and unauthorized fan-made content will be mostly up rooted by their legal department, especially people who sell custom merch.

Last edited Nov 06, 2012 at 12:32AM EST
Nov 06, 2012 at 12:01AM EST
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PopperFett the Mandalore wrote:

@Equestria Military

I like what ZeroBlue says in some ways, some ways I have to disagree

I doubt the Equestrian military is plain ineffective or drunk, so I’d go with either b) or c) from my previous post. The Equestrian military is either otherwise engaged in a foreign conflict or is not able to respond quick enough (due to whatever reason) to the threats that are imposed rather immediately.

For the existence of gunpowder weapons in Equestria, Pinkie Pie does have a party cannon

As for ponies with guns, I say it’s possible, but is a bit more complicated than man using a gun. For one, I would say a larger trigger is needed to accommodate hooves, and easier magazine change (drum mags, magpul on a box mag, or a dropmag (magazine ejects with a push of a button or when the clip is emptied)) would be effective. For movement, bipods could be used. Now the latter is pushing it, so it may be that they’re restricted to semi-mobile or emplaced weaponry (like the Mk. 19 grenade launcher or the Browning M1919 ). They would also need helmets and such to defend against this kind of warfare (assuming that griffons, mules, and zebras [the latter of which I can imagine running around with AK’s] are smart enough to use these kinds of weapons too).

To sum up: present, modern (for the most part), but was unable to respond to the crises that are presented in the show due to whatever reason

…Well, I wasn’t necessarily trying to argue that they ARE drunk, and I definitely wouldn’t argue they are incompetent. However the image of them at a bar does paint a good enough picture of what may be going on.

Think of it this way:

-No combat has been seen in Equestria for a long time.
-Equestria probably won’t see open conflict for the foreseeable future.
-The Military, although properly trained, has nothing to do in the mean time.

In other words, I’m thinking that a job in the Equestrian military is probably the least work a pony can get away with.

They are paid not so much to invade, or do any current military campaigns, they’re pretty much being paid to be fit in case a war ever does happen, which for some reason or another, Equestria is quite good at avoiding.

Pretty much, their job is so pointless as of that moment, they may as well just be drunk.

But now the real question: Why don’t they respond to the changeling invasion?

It was over in like, half an hour, they probably may have begun fighting back, having regrouped, but by that point no-pony would have noticed since Cadence suddenly went Deus Ex Machina on the changeling’s tails.

So by that logic, its not so much they have slow response time, or not there… its just the problem has never lasted long enough for them to actually make a noticeable impact.

Soldier 1: Well… We only just started fighting back; and now they’re gone. What now?
Soldier 2: Cider?
Soldier 1: Yeah, all right.

I can’t stress it enough…

Mad Elite skills…

….Nothing to use them on…

…Nothing else they need to do…

…Still getting paid…

It’s hard not to imagine them spending most of their time… Well… Wasting time.

It would probably make more sense to have them playing cards… but, you know, there aren’t any images I know of of Spitfire playing Cards.

So…Picking up Hot mares at a club it is.

Unless….

Now that makes much more sense!

Last edited Nov 06, 2012 at 12:16AM EST
Nov 06, 2012 at 12:13AM EST
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Jacob wrote:

@The rumored acquiring of Hasbro by Disney:
Two reasons I don’t like this: good shows have been shown to stop production when going through the legal shuffle (see Spectacular Spider-Man). Although I doubt (or at least hope) that something as poplar as MLP:FIM isn’t among those, it could experience drastic changes in animation style/ producers/ quality in general. There is always the possibility that it could become objectively “better” but changing things that don’t need it is rarely done well.

Second is unrelated to FIM, but is a personal concern. If the company that owns Star Wars/ Disney films also makes toys, there is little likelihood that they will license out to make toys, and instead make their own. Independent toy companies like LEGO may not be able to make Star Wars/ Disney product unless Disney somehow purchased them.

EDIT: Also, this isn’t even considering the MUCH stricter standards that Disney has on Intellectual Property. Assuming their current/ past actions are anything to go one, episodes will be much harder to find online and unauthorized fan-made content will be mostly up rooted by their legal department, especially people who sell custom merch.

I’m not entirely certain of the state of the future. However, there is increasing evidence that the rumors that Disney is an empire of proportions that could increase to the point where they end up with a legitimate Monopoly.

It’s beginning to get to the point where I wonder if there may be some kind of shenanigans going on…

…Hopefully not the time travel kind…

Anyways, there’s a small possibility that Disney is setting themselves up to be the single center for ALL culture, and are not going to stop until every memorable brand is under their control…

…and then…

…I suppose I suspect their move after that will be a giant crossover of Everything…

…Everything!

And from there my ideas get weird and grandiose. With they attempting to create a huge interweaving shared multi-verse for every story ever; with a history so convoluted and complicated that any given action by Iron man could have been influenced by Pinkie Pie sneezing. And any given action by Pinkie Pie could have been influenced by Spider Man punching Batman in the face.


Time to remix my brain again, it just went crazy.


Edit: Having just read your edit, I do believe that even if whatever grandiose plan Disney has comes to fruition; whatever good comes of it might not be worth the price we’ll have to pay.

Last edited Nov 06, 2012 at 12:38AM EST
Nov 06, 2012 at 12:34AM EST
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aerolyt wrote:

Disney might be thinking of buying Hasbro.


So first Leia, now Celestia, Luna, and Cadence. These guys aren’t going to quit until they have all the princesses, are they?

NOTE: I obtained the link on mobile, so that’s what the site will probably go to.

Hmm, I need to see a few more credible sources on that one. Something that isn’t MTV

However it sounds plausible. Disney won’t be satisfied with just selling Star Wars movie tickets, they know that related toys sell like hotcakes in the wake of a films success and they want some of that income as well.

If Hasbro has a grip on several Star Wars toy lines then it would make sense for Disney to target Hasbro so they can secure the whole franchise and rake in as much profit as they can get from their newly acquired IP

Note that I’m talking about Star Wars here, not MLP. Because not even that article listed MLP as one of the IP’s that could be affected.

I thought about why the article neglected to mention MLP and I conclude that Girls toys are not actually what Disney is after here. Star Wars is a bigger, more appealing fish. They might just leave MLP and other girls franchises out of the deal and allow Hasbro to keep those IP’s for themselves.

I don’t see why MLP would be on Disney’s radar but if Disney acquires the rights to MLP you can still hope that Studio B remains in charge of that. Hasbro simply makes the toys, so only the toy line would be affected rather than the show…in theory

The show would only be affected if it’s handed over to Disney Studio’s and gets moved to the Disney channel…that would probably ruin things

Funny, I could have sworn I saw a comic predicting this exact thing…where did I….

Nov 06, 2012 at 04:18AM EST
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@BSoD
False, the article did mention MLP at the very end as a potential affected IP. See the last paragraph.

But if MLP is moved to Disney Channel and Disney Studio, I do agree all hope is gone.

Nov 06, 2012 at 08:58AM EST
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Skeletor-sm

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