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KYM Pony General VI: Return of the Poni

Last posted Apr 19, 2013 at 12:20AM EDT. Added Jul 01, 2012 at 04:43PM EDT
10166 posts from 235 users

>mfw spoilers

Not that it was a huge unexpected spoiler… But still. It does take away from the “surprise” a little bit. Really though, I think we will soon hit critical mass for spoilers. There’s only a couple episodes left of the season… I think I’ll have to turn images off entirely!

…Nah, I won’t do that.

Jan 29, 2013 at 05:04PM EST
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@Spoilers


I don’t have much to say on the issue. Previous times I posted on Alicorn Twilight was merely me explaining why I thought it would make sense to do it, thus cementing my belief they actually would do it.

Since it’s happening for certain, that’s kinda Exciting.

But really, this is the point where we don’t entirely have a clear picture of what happens next. And as such, we have to go on gut reaction.

Do I think it will be good? Maybe… I’ll probably like it anyways.

How do I think it will go down? Well… Let me try piece together our somewhat unreliable fragments. If we’re to believe most of the leaked data, the scene in my head constructs something like this:

Twilight is studying a spell sent by Celestia herself as her final test. She casts the spell, and with her friends present, everything goes pear shaped.

It is quite possible that Discord gets caught in the blast, revealing his true self to be Starswirl the bearded.

It’s at this point Twilight realizes what her test is, fixing this mistake by inventing her own magic with the help of a mostly depowered Discord.

It takes an entire episode, but she learns how to calm her mind fully in this chaos, in order to undo it. Proving in a sense she has what it takes to be a leader, and that she will wield power for the sake of her friends.

From there, either she ends up gaining wings as a side effect of her spell; a kind of “State of Nirvana” transformation, that is the mark of a true leader if it occurs, hence the “Princess” deal. Or Celestia gives her Princess status straight up with wings included. Though I think it’s more likely to be the former.

And then Twilight is crowned, and then… Presumably, she’s told she can prepare for the new responsibilities at her own pace, from the comfort of her home in Ponyville if need be. Possibly with a relaxation period before her next lessons begin.

…Season 4 will thus probably be riddled with Instances of Twilight Learning to deal with royal Responsibility, while also juggling her connections with her friends.

And that is how I see it happening.

The worst I can imagine is that everyone on Fim-Fiction dot com is going to have to utterly obliterate the site by toggling all the fan fics to AU, or, alternately, off of AU in a few rare cases. Or otherwise some enormous rewrites.

Mine? I already was doing an AU, and I merely had to do a Retroactive change based on the Fact Twilight wears a shirt in my fan fic, which may have been used to cover up her wings.

Last edited Jan 29, 2013 at 05:54PM EST
Jan 29, 2013 at 05:32PM EST
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As a note, do we know for a fact it’s going to be permanent?

Also, posting this:



Because I think it’s a good point. Cadence doesn’t really seem to have any responsibilities and she’s an alicorn and a princess. For all we know, there could be thirty princesses that do absolutely nothing but hold an honorary title.

Also this:



We know Luna does dream stuff, and the deal with the destiny stuff, so I could see an episode where they have to delve into somebody’s mind to find the answer.

Somebody old, powerful, and plot-important… somebody…



Well… shit.
Jan 29, 2013 at 06:07PM EST
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@Spoilers

Congratulations, Hasbro

You single handedly proved that no matter what, money and attention is what you crave.

This decision will now destroy what you spent two years trying to build

Will Larson try to make it good? Of course he will. It might be entertaining.

But it was a bad plan that could not be altered.

That is why it is the end. That is why this decision is so bad.

It’s very nature was corrupt.

The brony fandom, from here on out, as I see it.

Is finished. It reached midnight.

Goodbye. I’m sorry.






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFpwsfHnBjw&t=1m26s


@Solaire

Yes, it’s permanent. Or so some reports say.

@Crazy

@Crazy

Nope. This time it’s over.

They sold out; I have no reason to linger

Last edited Jan 29, 2013 at 06:22PM EST
Jan 29, 2013 at 06:12PM EST
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@PopperFett


Admit it, you’ll be back in a couple of weeks at the most. You should really just try to enjoy the show while you can, and not be so down about it. Only leave when you feel you can no longer squeeze another ounce of joy from something that you like.

Jan 29, 2013 at 06:20PM EST

GUYS! Guys… We haven’t watched the freaking episode yet! Calm down.


Maybe the alicorn thing isn’t THAT bad, right? Right?

Last edited Jan 30, 2013 at 04:19PM EST
Jan 29, 2013 at 06:41PM EST
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Welp, I usually like to keep myself from spoilers, but it’s already been ruined for me because I had the audacity to visit the MLP image gallery expecting people to be responsible with their spoiler images. Oh well, I might as well go all the way and give my opinion on this whole thing.

I really couldn’t care about Twilight becoming an alicorn. I only care if the story is written well. You think this means the series jumped the shark? What made you such an expert to know how this will turn out when we only have that one piece of information? I honestly admire the writers for wanting to bring change to the series, and I will actually see how the finale turns out before I make my judgements
Jan 29, 2013 at 06:45PM EST
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@Pops
“Goodbye… Ta-ta… Toodle-oo… Auf Wiedersehen…”

Have fun wherev-

Wait a minute.
Hold the freaking phone.
Weren’t you the one repeatedly insisting that ‘this event’ would not mean that the show or fandom was over, only that it was on its way down?
Didn’t you repeatedly compare it to The Clone Wars which you continue to watch long after its decision to put toy marketability over storytelling?
Didn’t you admit that it was still a good show despite that?
Why the heck are you jumping ship on MLP?
Why won’t you give it the same benefit of the doubt, especially considering the fact that THE EPISODE HASN’T EVEN AIRED YET!
Oh well.
More pony for us then.


Twilight will be an alicorn and GOD!

Relevant:

Seriously, with these people behind it, I’m really not that worried about the show.

Last edited Jan 29, 2013 at 06:58PM EST
Jan 29, 2013 at 06:47PM EST
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Why are we still discussing an episode that is 3 weeks away from being aired and proclaiming that it will be the end of the fandom? I honestly post images about the fandom’s death as satire but now this is just getting ridiculous. Will the fandom die? No, most fandoms do not die; they will always have fans which is the heart of a fandom.

Also these so called reports do word it suggesting that it is permanent, there is no confirmation that it is, did all the main 6 remain crystal ponies after the season 3 premiere? No, and I doubt that Twilight will remain an alicorn after this special or at least a few episodes into season 4 and it will return back to normal, the writers turned a wedding into an action packed episode so they should be able to make the best with what they were ordered to do.

Edit:
The episode description clearly states that Twilight casts a spell to swap Cutie Marks and destinies, maybe she swapped her destiny with Celestia to become the princess of Equestria. The description continues on to say “the only way to reverse the spell is if she writes her own magic.” I bet the solution will be in season 4 as an overreaching story line to satisfy both Hasbro and the fans.
Last edited Jan 29, 2013 at 07:28PM EST
Jan 29, 2013 at 07:03PM EST
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@Everyone

Can we please scale it back a bit, I feel like things are starting to get a bit personal. Ponies should be a thing that brings us together, not drives us apart.

Last edited Jan 30, 2013 at 04:11PM EST
Jan 29, 2013 at 07:31PM EST
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Sheesh i decide to sleep in ONE DAY and i wake up to melodrama explosions.

@everyone not freaking out,
At least i know there are still sane people here.

I’m just gonna wait for the episode and probably be pretty darn blown away. I’d get more into detail why, but i have no idea how to create spoilers and don’t wanna ruin it for anyone else.

Jan 29, 2013 at 07:33PM EST
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“Hey guys, I just got back from school and an eye appointment, what’s going--”

OUR GODS, THEY ARE ABANDONING US!
WHAT HAVE WE DONE TO WRONG THEM!?”

Perhaps this isn’t big of deal as it should be, but I’m still questioning the motives behind releasing a nuke on the fandom as big as this more than half a month away from the season finale. It’s like the writers wanted to watch how fast a fire could spread for the enjoyment of warming up their hands to the heat because they don’t have anything else to do with the third season rather than sit around and watch their episodes run. I just hope they know what they’ve released upon us, because this is going to make the fanfiction area of the fandom fall apart at the seams in just a matter of time.

And no, I’m not putting up any spoiler tags yet because I’m not detailing just what MLP as a whole is jumping ship over.

Last edited Jan 29, 2013 at 07:56PM EST
Jan 29, 2013 at 07:47PM EST
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Mr Tutorial wrote:

Sheesh i decide to sleep in ONE DAY and i wake up to melodrama explosions.

@everyone not freaking out,
At least i know there are still sane people here.

I’m just gonna wait for the episode and probably be pretty darn blown away. I’d get more into detail why, but i have no idea how to create spoilers and don’t wanna ruin it for anyone else.

We’ve shared how to multiple times so far, but here you go:

<div class="spoiler">

Herpderp

</div>


Guess I have to apologise as well for overreacting. Not for overreacting about the Twilicorn situation, I still believe I’m dealing with that pretty mild, but instead for overreacting towards overreacters.


Insouciant Insect wrote:

Perhaps this isn’t big of deal as it should be, but I’m still questioning the motives behind releasing a nuke on the fandom as big as this more than half a month away from the season finale. It’s like the writers wanted to watch how fast a fire could spread for the enjoyment of warming up their hands to the heat because they don’t have anything else to do with the third season rather than sit around and watch their episodes run.

I actually believe it’s better to bring it like this, because now it’s not really a “nuke”. If they shared literally nothing about it (meaning that we still were clueless about Twilicorn even existing at this point), the airing of the episode would really be a nuke.

By releasing information weeks before the actual episode, the fandom can discuss it and accept its unavoidable destination beforehand. Sure, there’s still drama, but now it’ll be easier to contain.

Last edited Jan 30, 2013 at 04:11PM EST
Jan 29, 2013 at 07:57PM EST
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/thread


My take on this? This show has always been quality. It’s had its highs and lows just like any other show, and okay, maybe we could be hitting a low. Maybe. But let’s be honest, we have a great team of people behind this thing and I for one am confident they will pull something out of it that will remind us while we’re here in the first place. If this whole ordeal makes you want to gafiate, well then fine, whatever. I for one am here for cute ponies and the funny and entertaining interactions between them. As long as that remains a factor in this show, I’m here to stay.

Jan 29, 2013 at 08:03PM EST

Let’s try to compare the Twilight alicorn controversy to the new Dante controversy. Both have received negative reception upon the first announcement. The reception would become positive as the release got closer. When DmC came out, people got use to the new Dante, however, because of the initial reception, the sales of the game were terrible. Because of the massive fandom negativity towards alicorn Twilight, I get the feeling that ratings for MLP:FiM will go downhill in a fast pace. If that’s the case, then I wouldn’t be too surprised if season four would be the final season. Those are my two cents.

Jan 29, 2013 at 08:21PM EST
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The beautiful thing about this show and the community is how it has brought us all together in a friendly concord and instilled in us a kinder and more docile nature. Seeing it promote the exact opposite like this makes me very sad.

@Exudes flawless logic below

Last edited Jan 30, 2013 at 04:12PM EST
Jan 29, 2013 at 08:33PM EST
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chowzburgerz wrote:

Let’s try to compare the Twilight alicorn controversy to the new Dante controversy. Both have received negative reception upon the first announcement. The reception would become positive as the release got closer. When DmC came out, people got use to the new Dante, however, because of the initial reception, the sales of the game were terrible. Because of the massive fandom negativity towards alicorn Twilight, I get the feeling that ratings for MLP:FiM will go downhill in a fast pace. If that’s the case, then I wouldn’t be too surprised if season four would be the final season. Those are my two cents.

>Bronies
>Ratings

As big and influential as we like to think the brony fandom has grown, let us not forget that the largest viewer demographic of My Little Pony is… young children and their parents. I’m willing to bet the target audience would react pretty positively to Princess Sparkle, and Hasbro knows this. We’re what’s called a periphery demographic; in layman’s terms, we don’t really matter, because we aren’t where the money is. How many of us bought the Rarity’s Boutique playset or the Friendship Express toy? None.

So, yes, the fandom might be putting on its grumpy pants (They’re so itchy.), and yes, maybe a bunch of bronies leave or stop watching in what’s supposed to be some sort of “protest.” But it’s pretty fucking stupid to just drop a fandom because they stopped showing your favorite background filler (That’s all Derpy is. Filler. How does that make you feel?) or made one of the main characters overpowered. Keyword here is “fandom:” it doesn’t matter to me that Derpy doesn’t appear in the show anymore, because the fandom keeps me satiated. Honestly, if not for the fandom, My Little Pony would be, just like Verbose said, another Littlest Pet Shop; well animated, well voiced, all around well put together, but ultimately not really anything special.

We’ve got one of the best fandoms on the Internet here. We’re clustered around something positive, something cute and innocent. We’re generally nice people, and pretty civil, and our cons look pretty cool. We get fan art and fan fiction of adorable colorful ponies. What could be better? Why would you sacrifice that because a small, talking purple horse with magic that appears on your TV or computer grew some wings?

Twilight Sparkle will be an alicorn. Get over it. She’ll probably be a unicorn by the end of the episode anyways.


Also, new Fighting is Magic video. I guess they’ve got a decent game going, from a completely unbiased standpoint.

Last edited Jan 29, 2013 at 08:50PM EST
Jan 29, 2013 at 08:36PM EST

Twilight being an alicorn. My opinion? Haters gonna hate. I am personally looking forward to it. Just me.

Jan 29, 2013 at 09:02PM EST
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What if…

There is no season 4, but instead a follow-up series posing as season 4?
Jan 29, 2013 at 09:16PM EST
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Well-- for me this has been a long day full of feels. It took some time and some deep breathing, but I think I can be optimistic about ponies.
__________________________________________

Jan 29, 2013 at 09:28PM EST
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Exudes posted:

“I’ve been warning the world for years! Bears will be the end of all ponykind!”

“The only thing worse than a bear? A double bear! Right, Dash?”

(Love Flut’s style! She’s just fighting in panic mode! That leg flailing jump attack is great!)


We now return you to your regularly scheduled chaos, already in progress.

Last edited Jan 29, 2013 at 09:35PM EST
Jan 29, 2013 at 09:32PM EST
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LET’S GO BABY! LET’S GO! WE’RE TAKING THIS INTO MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE!

Popperfett wrote:

Congratulations, Hasbro

You single handedly proved that no matter what, money and attention is what you crave.

Yes, Comrade. How dare this corporation attempt to make money! How dare it attempt to reimburse shareholders for their investments! They should be happy we watch their episode for free on youtube and trade in Pony merch between ourselves without them seeing a single dime!

COME WITH ME AND WE SHALL FREE THE PRONYTARIAT!

Insouciant Insect In an Inevitable End wrote:

Perhaps this isn’t big of deal as it should be, but I’m still questioning the motives behind releasing a nuke on the fandom as big as this more than half a month away from the season finale. It’s like the writers wanted to watch how fast a fire could spread for the enjoyment of warming up their hands to the heat because they don’t have anything else to do with the third season rather than sit around and watch their episodes run. I just hope they know what they’ve released upon us, because this is going to make the fanfiction area of the fandom fall apart at the seams in just a matter of time.

And no, I’m not putting up any spoiler tags yet because I’m not detailing just what MLP as a whole is jumping ship over.

The writers have no bearing whatsoever on what gets released when. They just write episodes. Hasbro’s marketing department probably released the info for you know….promotional purposes.

Pretty normal really.

Chowburgerz wrote:

Let’s try to compare the Twilight alicorn controversy to the new Dante controversy. Both have received negative reception upon the first announcement. The reception would become positive as the release got closer. When DmC came out, people got use to the new Dante, however, because of the initial reception, the sales of the game were terrible. Because of the massive fandom negativity towards alicorn Twilight, I get the feeling that ratings for MLP:FiM will go downhill in a fast pace. If that’s the case, then I wouldn’t be too surprised if season four would be the final season. Those are my two cents.

Bronies don’t watch the Hub. We have nearly ZERO effect on ratings and a minuscule effect on sales.


If a lot of people end up leaving the fandom because of this? I’ll most likely be happy.

Because then we can fucking stop talking about the end of the fandom and get back to watching the damn ponies.

Also, I love this man:


Jan 29, 2013 at 09:37PM EST
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@burning_phoneix
I laugh at you futile system of communism, we all know that the Tsar shall rise again and restore the monarchy!

@DeadParrot
It is our duty as Americans to defeat the furry menace of the wild. Also, they are the national animal of the Ruskies. For the sake of national defense, we must defeat all the bears in America to keep this nation free and defeat the communist menace.

BTW: Tara Strong confirmed that she is leaving the show.


(Not really)

Last edited Jan 29, 2013 at 10:11PM EST
Jan 29, 2013 at 09:53PM EST
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Good lord, I can’t even begin to read all these reactions of Alicorn Twilight. This is the biggest shitstorm of all of brony history. I hope our researchers are following the trend here

I’m glad to see I’m not the only one here who doesn’t give a fuck. To see 99% of posters here seeing it for the minor detail it is; restores my faith in this thread (with the remaining 1% being Popper).

But at the same time, the reactions are pretty amusing. Hysterics can be pretty entertaining sometimes, especially when it’s all over a girls cartoon being a girls cartoon. I’m laughing at the people getting their jimmies rustled over that.

I can understand the concerns that if Hasbro can force such a overly-ideal outcome out of the show then that means the show could revert back to being the toy commercial it used to be (which would be terrible), but since the writers are aware of that already; I’m sure they can think of a way to dodge that outcome. All I’m thinking about is the opportunities presented by this and the things the fandom can create out of it. Already we are seeing people deliberately exaggerating the event as if it were the end of the world and the results are hilarious. This fandom has always been a great drama queen and I love it.

I’m just going to cook up some popcorn and watch the butts hurt and the flames roll. Anyone wanna join me?

Last edited Jan 29, 2013 at 10:24PM EST
Jan 29, 2013 at 10:21PM EST
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BTW guys, the reaction /mlp/ is having is hilarious.

The Mods have changed the board’s name to “WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?” and this music plays in the background in an endless loop:

Last edited Jan 29, 2013 at 10:22PM EST
Jan 29, 2013 at 10:21PM EST
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Alright, I’ve been quiet on this subject for too long. I’m just going say that this whole Twilight alicorn thing doesn’t upset me at all. The only thing I’m mad at is the people who make it such a big deal. I hate to make the comparison, but this reminds me of the Derpy situation. When that happened, alot of bronies got butt hurt over it. I’ll admit, when they changed Derpy in “The Last Roundup,” I was upset, but then I got over it the next day. If I can stick with the fandom after that, then I can still stick with it after season 3. Now back to my popcorn.

Jan 29, 2013 at 10:29PM EST
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@ “Leaving 5EVER”: so you’re going to never watch another episode because of Twilicorn (I love that portmanteau, it sounds much better than Pegalight so there)… Even though that episode isn’t for two weeks? And the synopsis gives just the slightest suggestion that it’s temporary? And that vector of her looking all happy looks like the stock advertising vectors made just to promote the show, and for all we know she may not be happy about it? And the fact that those advertising vectors don’t show Twilicorn’s cutie mark, which may help to prove or disprove the theory based on the synopsis that I mentioned above?

K bai. You’ll be back. You’ll want to watch it to see if it’s as bad as you expected, then when it isn’t you’ll calm your whiny little self down. Stop complaining, enjoy poni.

Jan 29, 2013 at 10:45PM EST
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At this point, I’d want to hear from people who think that the show is certainly going to take a drastic change and will acknowledge that it could be for the worst in regards to the brony demographic. It’s odd how much faith people have in the show considering it hasn’t been around for three full seasons. If it were ten seasons of gold, then I might be a little more sold. If other shows with these writers creators were just as good, then I might be a little more sold. But it’s 63 shows in. Littlest Pet Shop is a show that doesn’t hold many if any or our interests.

And considering how nice people tend to be here, I wonder why this matter has gotten us so upset. Which leads me to believe that some might be more concerned than they’re letting on. And rightfully so: if you show too much concern, then you’ll get downvoted to heck.

FiM is still very new, y’all. There’s not much there to put faith in. Having unshakable faith in a show that hasn’t been around for three years…I dunno…

I’m not interested in the argument that the show stays amazing no matter what is thrown in just because of the writers who write on other shows that we’ve seen and don’t like as much.
 
 
Finally, please note that being friendly is one of the forum (and site) rules. Being panicky isn’t against the rules. Being rude is. Please review what you’ve said. Do you think it’s respectful?

I won’t quote users like I did last time. I trust you to be able to check yourselves.

Even if you don’t think the argument deserves respect, that doesn’t give you clearance to break the rules. Please don’t make me make a “thing” of this.


Click for source, as usual.

Jan 30, 2013 at 12:07AM EST

I think we all just need to sit down,


Enjoy the air,


And maybe have a nice drink if need be.



There’s no need to go into hiding over all of this.

Last edited Jan 30, 2013 at 12:24AM EST
Jan 30, 2013 at 12:22AM EST

@Verbose: From my own speculation, I think some people have so much faith because M.A. Larson because he wrote Return of Harmony and A Canterlot Wedding. Sure, not 10 seasons of gold, but also remember that when the season 2 finale was rolling around there were a lot of people causing shitstorms because there was going to be a new mary sue pink alicorn that uses the power of love and was gonna marry Twilight’s brother whom we had never heard of before then. And then the finale happened, and Canterlot Wedding became one of if not the most beloved episode(s) of MLP. Essentially, people are predicting (or at least hoping) that history will repeat itself and Larson will once again not let us down. I prefer this optimistic state of mind over the end of the world mindset that I have seen more than enough of throughout the brony community today. To me, this end of the world mindset is what seems odd because we haven’t seen any examples of bad writing from Larson. Why doubt someone who hasn’t failed before?

Again, this is mostly speculation because I am right now neutral on whether or not the finale could turn out well. I certainly hope it turns out well and will give the show a fresh breath of air, but I realize that it could turn into a steaming pile of crap. Frankly, I don’t think any of us should be making any sort of definite decision until we see how the cards play out. Right now anything we say is only prediction, not fact.

Jan 30, 2013 at 12:34AM EST
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@Verbose

I think we are (Or, at least, I know I am) putting faith in the fandom rather than the show. Yes, the fandom is only as old as said show, but I suppose my reasoning is that a fandom this large isn’t going to disappear overnight. We’ll panic about Derpy censorship, we’ll get butthurt over King Sombra and alicorn Twilight, we’ll lament all the perceived fan service and pandering in season 3, but we’ll carry on well enough. Alicorn Twilight could be a god-awful episode and a permanent stain on the show’s legacy, but I think this discussion shows that most of us trust the fandom to keep from going to hell in a handbasket. It would kind of suck to end the season on such a bad note, but there’s a fourth one coming. The show isn’t going anywhere, so I think most of us assume the fandom will stick around as well.

I’m not putting unshakeable faith in the show. I acknowledge it’s had its weaker episodes, ones that I didn’t care for. But it’s had enough good stuff that I feel like the writers are competent enough. They’ve taken what sound like bad ideas and made them good (Spike at Your Service, for example), though admittedly they’ve done the opposite as well (Keep Calm and Flutter On, which I thought was a little weaker than it could have been). It’s a chance, and I guess most of the fandom is just managing to abstain from jumping to conclusions.

Let’s say the episode is terrible. In fact, every episode here on out to the end of the season is garbage. Would I stop animating? Of course not. Would other artists stop arting? Of course not. Musicians? They’d probably still make pony music. Writers? There will always be fan fiction; look at any obscure fandom from a million years ago, and there’s still fan fiction being written. That goes for art and music, too. Maybe everyone starts to lean away and branch out, but as I said earlier, this fandom is too dang fun to just abandon like that.

Purple Smart.

Last edited Jan 30, 2013 at 12:36AM EST
Jan 30, 2013 at 12:35AM EST

I will agree with Exudes’s post. This finale may be the end of anything good coming from this show, but I highly doubt it will be the end of the fandom. This type of scenario reminds me of the fandom for the anime/manga series, Death Note. A good chunk of fans stopped reading/watching the series halfway through due to circumstances that made them very unhappy, and yet a lot of them still claimed to be fans of the series and still made fanart/fanfic/etc. And I’ve seen this sort of thing happen in a lot of fandoms. Do you think Sonic fans love Sonic 06? Do you think fans of The Simpsons still watch all of the new episodes? No, and yet the fandoms still exist. So for better or worse, the bronies will go on.

Jan 30, 2013 at 12:45AM EST
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@Verbose: Okay, I’ll tell you what I think about this whole situation. Note that I hope that this will be a one-episode thing (although merch begs to differ), or at least a temporary transformation in the style of Ben 10 (at will, but limited in time). Also note that I’m going to stay calm until we know EXACTLY what is happening.


However, my show-ruining attitude would come around assuming at least two of these conditions happen:

  • Twilight’s alicorn form is permanent and irreversible
  • Twilight’s alicorn form has the full powers of a full-grown alicorn readily available
  • Twilight being an alicorn entails her having ruling duties of some sort

At that point, I would say the show has jumped the shark and is irreversibly damaged.

Twilight is already approaching Mary Sue territory (special magic powers, even among unicorns; everyone loves her; mentored by the freaking Ruler of the Known World), but I’ve always seen her as more of an Author Avatar, and still believe she hasn’t passed that threshold yet. She was based a lot on Lauren Faust, and while she is certainly special, she still has flaws and has always had to learn about them and confront them. Her flawed personality has kept her out of Mary Sue range.

However, with any of those combinations, Twilight is a straight up Mary Sue, according to my definition of the term, at least. Alicorns are already the bane of the OC world; it implies that you have abilities beyond those of the average pony, and that’s just as bad as the average Mary Sue, who’s “OGM so spiecal”. Adding instant access to the full range of Alicorn abilities would just make it worse, then you’re entering God Mode Sue territory. Alicorns are essentially, the physical forms of the Equestrian Gods by what we know, meaning they have powers far beyond those of the average pony. For example, Celestia can raise the freaking Sun single-handedly, a task that apparently used to take the entire Unicorn race. Giving her constant access to those powers would just be overkill. Similarly, being an actual ruler gives her access to all of the resources in Equestria.


Now if only one of those conditions is fulfilled, I’ll certainly be unhappy, but I think it’s salvageable. For one, if it’s permanent, but she has to learn about her new powers, there’s a good long-term arc about learning to use them. If she only get the powers, but in a short-term transformation, she doesn’t need to use it all the time. If she is a ruler, but doesn’t have full alicorn powers (maybe permanent form is okay here), then there’s a good arc about gaining respect from others. However, any combinations just put her into overpowered Sue territory – and there’s already too many of those in cartoons today.


This is like what I’d want to see out of Alicorn Twi:

This is not what I’d like to see out of Alicorn Twi:


tl;dr basically everybody

Last edited Jan 30, 2013 at 12:48AM EST
Jan 30, 2013 at 12:46AM EST
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Blue Screen (of Death) wrote:

Good lord, I can’t even begin to read all these reactions of Alicorn Twilight. This is the biggest shitstorm of all of brony history. I hope our researchers are following the trend here

I’m glad to see I’m not the only one here who doesn’t give a fuck. To see 99% of posters here seeing it for the minor detail it is; restores my faith in this thread (with the remaining 1% being Popper).

But at the same time, the reactions are pretty amusing. Hysterics can be pretty entertaining sometimes, especially when it’s all over a girls cartoon being a girls cartoon. I’m laughing at the people getting their jimmies rustled over that.

I can understand the concerns that if Hasbro can force such a overly-ideal outcome out of the show then that means the show could revert back to being the toy commercial it used to be (which would be terrible), but since the writers are aware of that already; I’m sure they can think of a way to dodge that outcome. All I’m thinking about is the opportunities presented by this and the things the fandom can create out of it. Already we are seeing people deliberately exaggerating the event as if it were the end of the world and the results are hilarious. This fandom has always been a great drama queen and I love it.

I’m just going to cook up some popcorn and watch the butts hurt and the flames roll. Anyone wanna join me?

Oh gosh that image.

I want the wedding scene to be Dash just for the trolling.

Last edited Jan 30, 2013 at 12:58AM EST
Jan 30, 2013 at 12:50AM EST
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Anyone need a refill? On the house.

I’m perfectly okay with the thought of alicorn!Twily: she looks cute with wings. /)^3^(\ Though it’ll be interesting to see how long it will last. If it lasts through the end of the episode and into Season 4, we will almost surely see episodes centered around her trying to get a handle on her new responsibilities and/or abilities, possibly with her later deciding “screw this, I’m not ready” and asking for a demotion (I doubt this will happen though: I’m guessing the transformation/Princess-hood will either be permanent or last only for the episode, and I’m leaning more towards the former scenario in light of the article that sparked this whole discussion).

Jan 30, 2013 at 01:07AM EST
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.



Everything you loved is dead.

>mfw

I love you guys, never stop being like that.

Jan 30, 2013 at 01:16AM EST
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Twilightlord Wrote:


However, my show-ruining attitude would come around assuming at least two of these conditions happen: Twilight’s alicorn form is permanent and irreversible Twilight’s alicorn form has the full powers of a full-grown alicorn readily available Twilight being an alicorn entails her having ruling duties of some sort

At that point, I would say the show has jumped the shark and is irreversibly damaged.

The first, from what we’ve heard is assuredly by the writers “Happening”. What about the other two?

I doubt she’ll be much more powerful than she is at the moment. Maybe a small boost in that she’s “leveled up”, but it would kind of be like going from D&D level 20 sorcerer to Level 21 Sorcerer. 21 is important, since you just reached epic levels, but other than that, not going to be too much of a boost, considering there’s another 30 odd levels before things get ridiculously overpowered.

As for ruling duties, think of it like a company. When she becomes alicorn it will be like she just got hired to work in this remarkable business, but she has little experience. As such, she’s essentially the royal Intern in terms of responsibilities, and the most she’ll be doing is showing up to royal events, and helping a few citizens at the local level with their personal problems. Both of which are things she already does. Later, she’ll be given the royal equivalent of being a “Personal Assistant”, essentially being a trusted adviser of a low level official like the Mayor. So expect any royal duties to be either hard won, or ditched on her last Minuit as Celestia realizes she’s missing her favorite Opera, which she will fail spectacularly at before Celestia returns and gets and gets a letter from Twilight over learning not to take too much responsibility too soon.

As for flying, yeah, she’s definitely going to need to take a lot of lessons from Dash before she can even glide without a stiff breeze knocking her off balance.

So from my perspective, I’d say we’re safe. Presuming your Criteria on dodging the second two are Flexible.

Seriously, someone needs to make a picture of Twilight as an Alicorn Royal Intern bringing Celestia her Morning Coffee.

Jan 30, 2013 at 01:41AM EST
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but, seriously why is everyone freaking out. i for one am exicited to see what happens when this airs, sooo in short. don’t hate ‘till you’ve watched it

Jan 30, 2013 at 02:10AM EST
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One other thing that I feel I should point out…

If worst comes to worst, the fandom also has a powerful weapon up it’s sleeve to protect itself from unpopular canon:

Disregard

People can outright ignore canon and continue to depict their fan creations in accordance to former fanon ideas.

For example people still draw Vinyl Scratch with red eyes instead of magenta, feigning ignorance to her canon eye color. Why? Simply because they prefer it that way and this allows them to continue enjoying the fandom the way they did.

I like Vinyls canon eye color better but hey, at least it prevented people going to melodramatic bits and leaving the fandom over one small thing

If Twilight becomes a Permanent Alicorn, I expect this defense mechanism to be employed again. Fan creations will continue to depict Twilight as a regular unicorn as if the canon was reversed or if it never happened


@iistroll

Most of us here on KYM seem to be pretty calm.

But there’s a lot of panic going on in other places. I believe most of the panic stems from concerns of:

  1. A main character becoming a definite mary sue
  2. The series selling out (Twlight is only going to be an alicorn to sell toys which reminds people of how the old generations ran)
  3. The series having no further room for development (Alicornship being the ceiling)
  4. Loss of original direction and/or loss of Faust’s founding vision
Last edited Jan 30, 2013 at 02:25AM EST
Jan 30, 2013 at 02:18AM EST
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I come offering distraction!
So, I’m sure everyone here is familiar with the .MOV series.
We’ve had a few discussions about it in the past where I’ve shared my opinions and stuff, but that’s not really important right now.
Some may recall my comments about his panel at EQLA in November where he spent an entire hour deliberately refusing to answer any questions and generally wasting a bunch of time.
It looks like he had a panel at another con last week, but he actually answered questions!
With information!
Just like a real person!
Crazy!
Anyway, there was an interesting bit of info that he divulged in there:

Congrats KYM!
For better or worse, you helped to spawn a legend!


Teaser for the next animation from JANAnimation, the guy behind Let’s Go Meet The Bronies and Ask The Crusaders:


And rounding off this fan animation update, TURNABOUT STORM FINALLY FINISHED!
After a full year from its first video, the case is closed!

Last edited Jan 30, 2013 at 03:40AM EST
Jan 30, 2013 at 03:29AM EST
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Everyone’s is getting mad about Alicorn Twilight and i’m just sitting here playing Fallout 2.

Jan 30, 2013 at 03:55AM EST
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Remember when we first heard about the Canterlot Wedding? I’m detecting a pattern here.

Everyone HATED Cadence because ZOMG SHE’S ALICORN. But it turned out pretty well, maybe this time is different because it’s Twilight. Dunno.

@DeadParrot222:Hooray KYM! (I need that spike hood) Really

@Soldier: That pretty much sums up… Everything

Jan 30, 2013 at 07:57AM EST
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@Verbose

I’m more interested in when you’ll finally accept Pinkie Pie as best pony, seeing how Twilight is “dead” anyway to you.


Twilitlord wrote:

Twilight’s alicorn form is permanent and irreversible
Twilight’s alicorn form has the full powers of a full-grown alicorn readily available
Twilight being an alicorn entails her having ruling duties of some sort

It has already been confirmed for permanent.

And given how Twilight was already reaching Mary Sue level, chances are high she’ll be pretty dang good at the magic the moment she gets it.


I’m not really going to care about spoilers anymore unless it’s game changing, everyone already knows what’s going on anyway. Nothing is a spoiler anymore.

Last edited Jan 30, 2013 at 04:17PM EST
Jan 30, 2013 at 08:18AM EST
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General Grievous wrote:

I have a barely pony related question, who the HELL IS MARY SUE?!

Here’s the article.

Mary Sue is a negative term used in fanfiction and literary criticism to describe an original character that is often overly idealized or assumed to be a projection of the author. Basically a character that is “perfect and flawless in every way” and commonly seen as overpowered.

Being how Alicorns are pretty much the (demi-)gods of Equestria to the fanon, having Twilight reach that tier makes her seem like an overly powerful character that no longer fits in the regular MLP scenario.

But let’s not forget that Mary Sue has multiple meanings, whereas people commonly only look at flawless and overpowered. Now let’s analyse that a bit more. For this I’ll take 5 points from the Zoe trope:

Mary Sue:
1) A character who is based, at least partly, on the author
2) A character whom has no significant flaws (except possibly ones the other characters find cute)
3) A character to whom everyone within the story reacts as if they were beautiful and wonderful except characters who are clearly evil and/or motivated by jealousy
4) A character with whom, during the course of the story, every available character of the opposite (and occasionally the same) sex will fall in love given any contact whatsoever
5) A character who undergoes no significant growth, change or development throughout the story

Alright then, let’s put those to comparison:

1) Doubt a pastel colored pony is the persona of Lauren Faust as created to be Lauren Faust by Lauren Faust.
2) Last time I checked, there were plenty of flaws on Twilight. There are enough episodes where she gets stressed out by for example the end of the world (confirmed fake) or even trivial stuff like writing a letter to the Princess. I doubt her personallity will change when she reaches Alicorn, the responsibilty might even make her more stressed than before.
3) Fair enough. But then again, it’s a show about fucking friendship. There are episodes in which the ponies show dislike towards each other, but in the end they’ll always be friends again.
4) >MLP
>Colts and relationships

Moving on.
5) I don’t know about that man. I mean:

That looks like some pretty damn big change, growth and character development to me.

Conclusion: Twilight isn’t as much of a Mary Sue as people tend to describe her.

Last edited Jan 30, 2013 at 04:18PM EST
Jan 30, 2013 at 09:55AM EST
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Well, I’m glad we’ve given up the pretense of spoilers for AliTwilight, there was really no point any more.

Those of you who saw my last post about all this stuff already know how I feel; that hasn’t changed at all upon finding out that it was confirmed, but it certainly disappoints me. Her Royal Highness, Princess Twilight Sparkle™ is a dumb idea that is obviously the result of corporate meddling, and one episode isn’t likely to make it work if it’s a permanent change. I think there’s still a chance it will be temporary though, however slim. If that is the case, it could easily be a great episode.

But I have to say, I find it all agitating and even slightly depressing. Just reading this:

It bugs me to know that Faust’s ideas for the show aren’t being used at this point. I hate retcons, and I very much dislike contrived plots that are driven by the blasted marketing department. It’s their company and they can do as they want, but I sure don’t have to like it.

With all that said, I’ll obviously continue to enjoy both the show and the fandom for as long as they’re around. As I said before, that alicorn princess idea, however much it annoys me, is not enough to rob me of the pleasure I get from everything else the fans and the show creators have produced.


@The “Mary Sue” question

It does make her overpowered, and it does put her a significant step ahead of her peers, and it does make it seem like it went from “Friendship Is Magic” to “The Twilight Sparkle Show”, assuming her princesshood is forever. Take that as you will. Whether you call her a Mary Sue for it or not, doesn’t matter much to me, I don’t care for it either way.

I hope this doesn’t come across as “drama” to you guys. That’s simply what I think of the situation.

Last edited Jan 30, 2013 at 10:09AM EST
Jan 30, 2013 at 09:58AM EST
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I know one user is still trying to avoid spoilers in Whitishcollar, but I sent him a PM telling him that we’ve basically been dropping the spoilers. I hope he reads it before he gets back. I feel bad if he decides to not read the thread for likely 2 and a half weeks, because we’re lazy…

Via Crimson Locks:

From my own speculation, I think some people have so much faith because M.A. Larson because he wrote Return of Harmony and A Canterlot Wedding. Sure, not 10 seasons of gold, but also remember that when the season 2 finale was rolling around there were a lot of people causing shitstorms because there was going to be a new mary sue pink alicorn that uses the power of love and was gonna marry Twilight’s brother whom we had never heard of before then. And then the finale happened, and Canterlot Wedding became one of if not the most beloved episode(s) of MLP.

Return of Harmony was amazing, and some of his other episodes (including It’s About Time) have been favorites of mine. But:

I didn’t love the Season 2 finale. It’s a satisfying ending, especially with Love is in Bloom playing. But the resolution made it satifsying. Up to that, I didn’t really love it. I don’t like it when episodes are a huge production. I knew we’d never see Cadance on a regular basis. She could have been a Mary Sue…(Speaking of, please consider Googling for simple answers such as these in the future.)…and I wouldn’t have cared, because I knew I wasn’t going to see Cadance much in the show afterwards. And we haven’t. Same goes for Shining Armor.

However, Twilight will always be the focal point of the show, even when she’s not present in an episode.

As for the optimistic mindset/panicked mindset, I’m not disagreeing that panic is the best emotion here, but it’s hard to tell a person to calm down when they’re emotionally upset.

I am neither. I have things to do outside of pony here on KYM, with my friends and family, and stuff I want to try before I get too wrapped up in a career. The show can stop, and I’ll probably move on to other shows like anime I’ve wanted to watch, Gravity Falls again, movies I haven’t seen, games I haven’t played, things like that.

I’m not optimistic. I’d love to see how Twilight stays with her friends in Ponyville while being royalty (unless it’s truly just some honorific which Meghan McCarthy seemed to emphasize in the EW article). I’m not panicked, because the state of the show doesn’t threaten me personally.

I’m skeptical. If things work out great, then awesome. In a way, I actually expect things to (in my eyes) miraculously work out, not because of the writers’ brief track record, but because they’re so confident. They’re still talking and making jokes.

But If things don’t work out, then I’m not surprised. It’s an OP’d unicorn that gets to become an alicorn princess because she’s “really good and is liked a lot.”


@Exudes

The fandom was a really nice source of support and “good feels” when I first came along, but it really serves as a source of cute fanart for me now more than anything else. The people that I’ve met in the fandom have become friends outside of the brony fandom, so I can get by without.

But yes, for various reasons, the fandom will likely stand for a while after this. Now I think comparisons to other large fandoms like the Sonic fandom or Trekkies aren’t necessarily suitable, because Sonic’s been around forever. The span of time between Sonic the Hedgehog and Sonic 3D Blast/Flickies’ Island was five years (1991-1996), and new content (with new characters which are also used in Sonic fandom fan content) has still been accepted. Star Trek has also been around forever.

Just don’t take away my Princess Peach and Princess Zelda fanart.


@Twilitlord

I’ve also noted (I might have said before) that those who are staying calm seem to be making an active attempt to stay calm. On one. underrepresented side, panic seems to have taken hold. I can’t be made to care as much, but I’m certainly skeptical.

On the other side which makes up most bronies, people are still using the words “hope,” “faith,” and “try…stay(ing) calm.” That seems to indicate some doubt, even if you’re expecting good things. Don’t acknowledge the panic, but acknowledge that this doesn’t seem to be setting the table for a Season 4 we’ll know as we’ve known the previous series. It can’t be for much better. Seasons 2 and 3 were amazing. It could be different and still good, or it could be worse.
 
-

@Jyron/Twilitlord/ZeroBlue

If it lasts through the end of the episode and into Season 4, we will almost surely see episodes centered around her trying to get a handle on her new responsibilities and/or abilities

Oh, I don’t really mind a Twilight Princess (LAWLZ TO THA MAX) who’s awkward and is getting used to the fact that she’s an alicorn or the responsibilities they have. I do mind her doing these things without the rest of the Mane Six.

I could see how Pinkie might appear in an episode or three to provide comic relief or AJ comes by occasionally to serve as a Smart Cookie to Twilight in a pinch. I don’t see how the Mane Six dynamics of dyadic and triad interactions stay the same though.

Again, the show focuses on Twilight Sparkle, but Twilight Sparkle makes up only part of the appeal of the show for bronies. It’s going to be interesting to see how the writers continue to incorporate the rest of the Mane Six without relocating them (or leaving Twilight where she is.)


iistroll21 wrote:

but, seriously why is everyone freaking out. i for one am exicited to see what happens when this airs, sooo in short. don’t hate ‘till you’ve watched it

Same ol’ message. Again, I’ve heard that. I see the need for it for those who are really invested functionally in the series (I am very emotionally tied to the characters, but the show or fandom serve no function for me psychologically anymore.) I see why many bronies might need reassurance, I’m not interested in being comforted right now.

I think the panic is interesting, but I get no enjoyment from it. Even if it’s for weak reasons or somewhat unfortunate reasons, I get little joy from watching people break down over something they really enjoy. I’m just not that kind of person when I’m being serious with myself.


@BSOD

Twilight is dead to me…IDGAF

Disregard

Lalalacan’thearyoucanonlalala?

Yeah, I may go for that myself. However, I’m not so attached to fan content, and I still love the show. I’ll be disappointed in the show’s future if the writers somehow can’t pull this off perfectly. Not in the writers. I know they do all they can.
 
I said before that Twilight may remain the same in terms of personality, but it’ll take a while for me to associate all of the feelings I have with her in fanart to her new form. (I am making a close -to-baseless assumption that she will remain an alicorn for some time if not the remainder of the show, but that’s what I find fun about speculation.)


@RandomMan wrote:

I owe you a PM.
 
Anyway, there’s as much drama as we want there to be. I lean more towards Popper and chowz than anyone else, but my attitude and level of panic is the same as most people here. No drama. Just discussion. Everything doesn’t have to be super serious discussion, but sometimes, super serious discussion and speculation is fun.

So far, it’s just been “Chill, everything’s going to be alright.” That’s hardly discussion. That’s reassuring comfort. I don’t need that, to be honest.

As for true fans, just like who’s a brony and who’s not, I don’t feel confident enough to label anyone a true fan or not. If you say you’re a fan, then I’ll assume you’re a fan. There’s also the assumption that one has to like the fandom or fan material to be a fan of the show. I don’t think that’s accurate or fair.


And I’m going with Rarity for Favorite Pone.

I blame Advance and Joe, personally.

Last edited Jan 30, 2013 at 04:23PM EST
Jan 30, 2013 at 11:50AM EST

So in non-apocalypse related news, Deadparrot and I have been bouncing around some ideas for a new tumblr! The tumblr will be called “Guard Duty,” and it will follow the interesting twists and turns to be found in the lives of two royal guards.

I whipped up a bit of concept art the other day as well as a song which I think nicely captures the tone of the story we mean to tell.


Further information will be presented as it becomes available. More concept art will be posted to my new Deviantart account

Last edited Jan 30, 2013 at 12:07PM EST
Jan 30, 2013 at 12:05PM EST
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@RM: I think Verbose nailed what I’m trying to get at: I’m afraid that if this is a long-term thing, Twilight will become the overreaching focus of the show. Sure, at this point, she is the “main character”, but that’s a very loose term for a show where the last season has had significantly more episodes focusing on others than the closest thing it has to a main. As much as I like Twilight, I don’t want “The Twilight Sparkle and Friends Show”. I want “My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic”, which focuses on everyone. Making Twi an alicorn makes her the overarching center of attention.

It also puts her significantly above her friends: right now, they are all essentially equals, being the main 3 pony races. Making her an alicorn makes her superior to her friends in a way that I’m not really comfortable with.

This also leads into my third point: a Mary Sue isn’t a “all characteristics or nothing” kind of character. I’m afraid that this will lead into the God Mode variant, where suddenly Twilight has essentially Diety-level magic that she can use to solve any problem. Villain? Wait awhile, use alicorn magic. Problems in Equestria? Alicorn magic. Secondary character episode? Deus ex Machina. A main character with Superman-tier powers doesn’t work in this show’s setting; it makes solving anything too easy. What are they supposed to do, block her powers with Sombra magic every episode to make it fair?

Jan 30, 2013 at 12:07PM EST
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Skeletor-sm

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