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KYM Pony General VI: Return of the Poni

Last posted Apr 19, 2013 at 12:20AM EDT. Added Jul 01, 2012 at 04:43PM EDT
10167 posts from 235 users


This just made that scene a lot worse for me. I need to curl up and cry somewhere.

Edit: Well turns out the actual picture is a lot smaller than it should be. So I will attempt to make this post a little more interesting.

Rainbow Dash is best pone what is Canada?

Last edited Feb 18, 2013 at 03:48PM EST
Feb 18, 2013 at 03:45PM EST
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@Kewln00b: Well, let’s try that.

Well…

@Advance: Mane… 7… At this point, I am not doubting anything. I wouldn’t put it beneath Hasbro to throw in a new main character that’s a unicorn. Not only would it be a great excuse to make lots of new toys, but it remakes the friendship dynamic.
What used to be 2 pegasi, 2 earth ponies, 2 unicorns has been ruined to become 2 pegasi, 2 earth ponies, 1 unicorn, 1 alicorn
It can be fixed by adding a new unicorn. Intriguing, I eagerly await.
… And then it won’t take more than 20 minutes at Hasbro meeting room to see that logically there has to be 2 alicorns as well. Oh boy… Shit just keep getting worse!

Feb 18, 2013 at 04:49PM EST
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For some reason whenever I saw Luna’s dress in the episode I kept thinking of the Derse and Prospit dream self outfits from Homestuck. Am I crazy? After all, Derse and Prospit are the two MOONS of Skia. Pretty weird coincidence, I think.

Call me crazy, but I can’t shake the feeling that her dress looks like a cross between the two outfits.



>inb4 not everything is Homestuck StarGazer

Last edited Feb 18, 2013 at 04:56PM EST
Feb 18, 2013 at 04:55PM EST
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>desses

Hm new unicorn makes sense, I guess ponyville is in dire need of a new librarian…

Source

This just fits perfectly…

Last edited Feb 18, 2013 at 05:10PM EST
Feb 18, 2013 at 04:59PM EST
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@Advance

Well that’s an unpleasant theory. Of course there are alternative explanations -- she could just be a special carnival episode pony.

But after all the hype about alicorn Twilight, I’ve learned to relax and enjoy the ride. Studio B will do their damnedest with whatever Hasbro throws their way, and it’ll usually turn out alright in the end.

Kind of reminds me of Facebook:

So as it comes to speculation about the future course of the show, this is how I am for the time being:

Unless they don’t give Rarity an episode next season. Then I’m going to start a riot. باسم مقدما

Feb 18, 2013 at 05:07PM EST
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@Friendship Reports:

I’ll miss them, too. I thought they were a neat little way to express how Twilight was learning and how she was still technically a student. Sometimes they could be a bit shoehorned in, but later episodes felt like there just weren’t present at all.

@Dresses:

Eh, I kinda liked the Mane Six’s dresses. Not on the level of the Gala dresses, but still nice.

@Celestia’s Ballad:

They said the internet would kill my humanity.

They said it would ruin my emotion.

They said I would transcend the need for petty feels.

Know what?

They were wrong.

I didn’t feel sad, I felt kinda proud and nostalgic. It was like seeing my brother graduate from high school. I remembered all the time we had spent together, everything I’d seen him do, and everything he had accomplished. He had become an adult, and he had learned what he needed to truly make it. I was proud of him because he had accomplished it on his own merit and the merit of his loved ones.

Same deal with Twilight. She finally achieved her highest goal. Saving Equestria from Nightmare Moon and Discord, Canterlot from Chrysalis, and the Crystal Empire from Sombra. Acquiring her friends and learning how to be a better person from them while returning the favor. Making them friends, even, and acquiring a reliable circle of friends that she can rely on. She achieved her goals not on her own merit alone, but on the merit of those she could trust in. Her magic is supposed to be stronger than Starswirl the Bearded’s because she understands friendship more than him. Her friends guided her along until she was able to fully achieve her goal and become the best of the best.

Maybe I’m rambling, but I don’t entirely oppose the idea of Twilight receiving it. She has earned it, from all she’s done.

That said, I think that she shouldn’t be a princess just to sell toys. I always thought My Little Pony was unique in that it posed what most people desire: acquiring companionship for who you are, as an individual. It showed that you can be all sorts of individuals, and people will be able to care for you, no matter what. The scene where all the townsfolk immediately lit up at Pinkie showing up really hit home because I felt that was the essence of the show. It showed that just making people smile can be a worthy life goal. You don’t have to be a princess or anything to be important, you just have to be who you are, as a person. That’s not to say the princess idea is bad, as it shows Twilight’s importance for who she is, and I think that the writers did a wonderful job with it. I just think that the idea of princess-hood to sell toys is a bit off.

I teared up typing that. Damn. I still think the episode is a little bad, because I hardly laughed and some parts were just plain grating, but the concept itself isn’t shabby, in my opinion.

Feb 18, 2013 at 05:58PM EST
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I’m going off topic and this is kinda old, but I haven’t seen anyone else talk about it so I’m going to.

Have you guys played a game called Minty Fresh Adventure? It’s a platformer and a really good one at that. It has voice acting, good artwork, good music, and it plays really well. This is one of the best fan made games I’ve played and you should check it out if you haven’t already. Click on the picture below to go to the website.

It also has two other games and an unfinished game that’s in the works, which are okay.
Seriously, you guys need to check this out.

Feb 18, 2013 at 06:04PM EST
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@Luna’s dress

I think it’s more the gold that clashes than the purple. ‘Course, the purple could stand to be a little less bright, but then I’ve always been a fan of more muted colours. Overall, though, they ain’t that bad. This sort of event kinda needs showy, attention-grabbing attire, after all. I think it’s more people being unused to the princesses wearing anything other than their usual accessories.


@Season 4/spin-off speculation

I’d like stress once again that the article “confirming” the whole Equestria Girls thing is still unconfirmed by a second source, as far as I know. As for the image of the high-school hallway with the humanized mane six, that came from a noted troll tumblr. Sure, they could be true, but it could also be true that I’m not the lazy Finnish semi-artist that I claim to be, but rather that elusive Hasbro intern sent to watch this sector of the community. How would you know, eh?

But anyway, let’s speculate…

I remember that we discussed how this whole alicorn business would affect the dynamics of the show. The two major camps are that Twi will stay in Ponyville and little will change, or that she’ll move to Canterlot and either stay there or have some convoluted excuse to be with her friends every episode. Assuming she stays an alicorn, of course.

Well, I propose a third option. Why not have it both ways? As in, have two parallel storylines, one with Twi mingling with the princesses and the rest of the nobility, and the other with the remaining five going about their lives in Ponyville, with intersections a few times along the line. That way, we’ll still get the good ol’ slice-of-life, while also getting to know the bigger picture through the royal court, with the mane six having a few reunions to spice things up a bit.

Of course, this means that the group will be broken, but is that really so bad? We’ve had plenty of Twi interacting with the rest, but not so much the rest interacting with eachother. Getting Twi out of the way allows them to intermingle some more.

And getting Twi more involved with the royals allows the sisters to have some big screentime, for once. ‘Specially ol’ Celly. I know mystery and subterfuge is kinda her shtick, but we know even less of the Matriarch of the Sun than we do of Luna, which is kinda ironic, no?

So how would such a split work? Well, since we’re back to full-length seasons again, we can split the episodes into Canterlot, Ponyville and reunion episodes. Or, alternatively, the spin-off is all about Twi and Canterlot and the two storylines intermingle from time to time. Can’t be sure at this early a stage.

As for this possible character possibly named Dawn, if she’s the real deal she’s obviously got something to do with Twi. But what, exactly? Advisor? Protégé? Replacement? Infiltrator? Something completely different? Again, too early to say.

Feb 18, 2013 at 06:52PM EST
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We just need 33 more pages until this thread is full and locked. Will we be able to do it before Season 4?

I just realized, we waited for Season 3 so long and it feels like it was just yesterday that we were waiting for it. Now we’re waiting for Season 4…This is only my second ponyless summer/year and I already hate this annual wait for Poni. God this show has really ruined me.

Last edited Feb 18, 2013 at 06:59PM EST
Feb 18, 2013 at 06:58PM EST
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You know, I hate to say this, but that finale has really managed to kill my enthusiasm for pony. That episode…I just can’t make it work, I can’t find a way to fit it into a mindset where mlp is still cool. I’m not even pissed off anymore, I just don’t care. Whatever magic I once felt was there has been throughly extinguished for me.

Maybe this is just a temporary thing and my love for the show will come back in time, but for now, pony just strikes me as terribly uninteresting. So yeah, guess this is it. Later pony general.

Oh who am I kidding, I’ll probably still drop in from time to time :P

Feb 18, 2013 at 07:55PM EST
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Fifths wrote:

Oh who am I kidding, I’ll probably still drop in from time to time :P

Pony is a hell of a drug.

Last edited Feb 18, 2013 at 08:10PM EST
Feb 18, 2013 at 08:09PM EST
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Well I think it’s a pretty good idea to finally reveal the truth about Ma’ and Pa’ Apple on the show. I was at my brother’s place today and his daughter (5 years old) decided to ask me a question today (she knows I watch MLP and she knows that I’m the one that spoils her with just about any MLP toy I can find at Toys R Us lolololol) she asked me where Applejack’s parents were…If Hasbro is thinking if they NEVER mention the parents that kids will never ask questions they were obviously wrong if this little girl is already asking questions. Just give us some Closure Hasbro!!!

Feb 18, 2013 at 08:14PM EST
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As I watch the season finale (over and over again), I find myself liking it more and more.

It gives me feels because the story is over.

The era of “Friendship is Magic” has ended, whatever follows will be another stage, another dynamic. That’s okay, but it means that what we had is gone. I can’t blame anyone who decides this is time to leave Pony behind.

I’ve watched you from that very first day…
It’s time now for a new change to come.
You’ve grown up, and your new life has begun.

Last edited Feb 18, 2013 at 08:26PM EST
Feb 18, 2013 at 08:25PM EST
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Kewln00b? wrote:

Well I think it’s a pretty good idea to finally reveal the truth about Ma’ and Pa’ Apple on the show. I was at my brother’s place today and his daughter (5 years old) decided to ask me a question today (she knows I watch MLP and she knows that I’m the one that spoils her with just about any MLP toy I can find at Toys R Us lolololol) she asked me where Applejack’s parents were…If Hasbro is thinking if they NEVER mention the parents that kids will never ask questions they were obviously wrong if this little girl is already asking questions. Just give us some Closure Hasbro!!!

The writers confirmed that the shooting stars seen during Apple Family Reunion are an implicit sign that AJ’s parents are dead.

@Fifths:

Feb 18, 2013 at 08:46PM EST
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Jyron Stone wrote:

The writers confirmed that the shooting stars seen during Apple Family Reunion are an implicit sign that AJ’s parents are dead.

@Fifths:

But the target audience (yes, we are not the target audience) has no clue what that means. Not every little girl out there has some a brony/pegasister relative to clue them in on this stuff when questions like this are raised.

Feb 18, 2013 at 08:50PM EST
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Some wrote:

“I’m gonna miss the friendship reports.”

That’s sad and all, but remember the most popular friendship report?

The most popular friendship report was the one in which nothing was learned.

Last edited Feb 18, 2013 at 10:08PM EST
Feb 18, 2013 at 10:05PM EST
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@Brownmane

Well, I propose a third option. Why not have it both ways? As in, have two parallel storylines, one with Twi mingling with the princesses and the rest of the nobility, and the other with the remaining five going about their lives in Ponyville, with intersections a few times along the line. That way, we’ll still get the good ol’ slice-of-life, while also getting to know the bigger picture through the royal court, with the mane six having a few reunions to spice things up a bit.

Of course, this means that the group will be broken, but is that really so bad? We’ve had plenty of Twi interacting with the rest, but not so much the rest interacting with eachother. Getting Twi out of the way allows them to intermingle some more.

It appears that Twilight will have her own castle with her own underlings. I’m not sure if it follows that she’d have more than a few episodes with her friends back in Ponyville unless she is effectively not a princess in the way that we know princesses in this universe.

We don’t know much about royal business, but it seems like the princesses rule on their own with little coordination with other princesses. I don’t get the feeling that Princess Cadance visits Canterlot all that often unless there is a crisis or a special event. I think they’d spend most of their time with audiences, specific crises dealing with their own powers, and business dealing with their own empire.

If Twilight is a princess like the previous three, then even if she was physically close to her friends, I can’t see her having the time to go and visit for very long without it being for business or a crisis. Celestia never went to visit her favorite student unless she went nutty/there was royal business/Feeling Pinkie Keen despite not being that far away and being able to teleport. I don’t think Twilight would have the time to go and visit her friends just for a visit.
 
Now that being said, Princess Twilight is entirely different from Cadance and Celestia/Luna, because she doesn’t seem to rule a land and she doesn’t have an empire.

It could be said that Twilight is simply a princess, due to her leadership skills and her unmatched knowledge of friendship. She’s given the title “Princess,” because of those skills, and she is given a castle with servants, but that doesn’t mean she has to “rule” over a jurisdiction. The transformation to alicorn is simply symbolic and comes with being a princess.
 
Think of Sir Paul McCartney. He’s a knight. Knighted by Keira Knighley and everything or something. But even though he’s an official knight, he’s only given the title due to being an exemplary citizen of Angleland Brother don’t do nothing to protect Queen Keira.
 
Perhaps Princess Twilight Sparkle is the same way. She is given the title “Princess” along with the honor and prestige of being an alicorn. But her duties are, more or less, already done. She doesn’t become a “knight” to do something for the country. She became a “knight” for what she’s already done and what she’s passionate about anyway.

So just like Sir Elton John and Sir Paul McCartney are knighted for their music and other contributions to Mother Britdirt and Keira Knightley, Twilight Sparkle may have her own contributions to upkeep, but perhaps nothing like Luna, Celestia, and Shining Armor’s ammunition.
 
So if that’s the case, then perhaps Twilight would have some time to hang out with her friends for a day. To us, she would just appear like the world’s best scholar on a subject. And you get a nice castle for it. In the universe of Friendship is Magic, it makes you royalty.


However, I think she’ll be more like a princess than a librarian. It’ll be interesting to see where it goes, but…


Related.

Do you guys still think of Twilight, Rarity, Applejack, Pinkie Pie, Rainbow Dash, and Fluttershutter as being what we call the “Mane Six?”

I’m not sure if that fan name fits anymore. I mean, one’s a princess, even if she’s still one of the six bearers of the Elements of Harmony. She’s a princess with her own castle.

Feb 18, 2013 at 10:24PM EST

Verbose wrote:

Related.

Do you guys still think of Twilight, Rarity, Applejack, Pinkie Pie, Rainbow Dash, and Fluttershutter as being what we call the “Mane Six?”

I’m not sure if that fan name fits anymore. I mean, one’s a princess, even if she’s still one of the six bearers of the Elements of Harmony. She’s a princess with her own castle.

When I say “Mane Six”, do you think about 2 earth ponies, 2 unicorns and 2 pegasi? Do you think about 2 earth ponies, 2 pegasi, 1 unicorn and 1 alicorn? Do you think about any random combo of the 4 species?

Or do you think about Twilight, Rarity, Applejack, Pinkie Pie, Rainbow Dash, and Fluttershy? The six ponies that we have always defined as the “Mane Six”, regardless of what they look like or what their function is.

You are being deceived by looks here, while it is still the personality you liked them for and by which you define them.

I don’t think that answer ever changed Verbose.

We define the Cutie Mark Crusaders by their quest of getting a Cutie Mark, not because they’re a perfectly balanced mix of Earth, Uni and Pegasi. I don’t see how that’s different here.

Last edited Feb 18, 2013 at 10:44PM EST
Feb 18, 2013 at 10:31PM EST
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Verbose wrote:

She’s a princess with her own castle.

Have I missed something? When did this happen? From what I understand, she’ll be remaining in Ponyville for the time being.

Feb 18, 2013 at 10:51PM EST
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Verbose wrote:

Related.

Do you guys still think of Twilight, Rarity, Applejack, Pinkie Pie, Rainbow Dash, and Fluttershutter as being what we call the “Mane Six?”

I’m not sure if that fan name fits anymore. I mean, one’s a princess, even if she’s still one of the six bearers of the Elements of Harmony. She’s a princess with her own castle.

@RandomMan

I think he’s asking if we can still consider them the Mane 6 if they’re separated spatially, not if the earth-unicorn-pegasus-alicorn ratio within the group changes.

Of course, we don’t know if they will be separated. They might be, or she could just be the “People’s Princess” and live in Ponyville. Or they could relocate to Canterlot. There’s really no telling at this point.

So long as the show focuses on them about like it does now -- outlining their adventures as a group, mostly, with highlighted episodes of each (except Rarity, apparently) -- then I think the “Mane 6” title still fits.

And I’m pretty sure that it’ll keep that focus. After all, look at the show’s title:

It’s hard to have a show entitled “Friendship is Magic” if the friends of the main character suddenly stop playing a role in the show’s plot.

Last edited Feb 18, 2013 at 11:06PM EST
Feb 18, 2013 at 11:03PM EST
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When I say “Mane Six”, do you think about 2 earth ponies, 2 unicorns and 2 pegasi? Do you think about 2 earth ponies, 2 pegasi, 1 unicorn and 1 alicorn? Do you think about any random combo of the 4 species?

Or do you think about Twilight, Rarity, Applejack, Pinkie Pie, Rainbow Dash, and Fluttershy? The six ponies that we have always defined as the “Mane Six”, regardless of what they look like or what their function is.

You are being deceived by looks here, while it is still the personality you liked them for and by which you define them.

Well, let’s not jump to any conclusions here.

Verbose wrote:

Do you guys still think of Twilight, Rarity, Applejack, Pinkie Pie, Rainbow Dash, and Fluttershutter as being what we call the “Mane Six?”

I’m not sure if that fan name fits anymore. I mean, one’s a princess, even if she’s still one of the six bearers of the Elements of Harmony. She’s a princess with her own castle.

I never said anything about looks. I was referring to one’s role. Of course, that’s Twilight.

And when I think of the Mane Six, I think of six regular ponies who are the protagonists of the show. The personalities are, actually, irrelevant to their status as being protagonists.

A princess, regardless of her personality or looks, is still held in much higher regard than any subject. The Mane Six does not bow to each other. None of the Mane Six have other princesses bow to them.

I think that it’s gone from “Mane Six” to “Twilight Sparkle and five other ponies.”

I think it’s severely downplaying the events of the coronation to say things are the same or that Twilight is mostly the same as she was before. Her personality didn’t change. Never claimed that. But she is a princess, and she is more special than the rest of the Mane Six now.
 
What I’m saying is that Twilight is separate from her five closest pony friends. She isn’t just one of the gals anymore. But I’m willing to debate that.


As for the castle:

That was a miscue on my part. Check out the video here.

When I first saw that (I’ve only watched the episode once,) I assumed that the “castle” in the front was separate from the city of Canterlot behind it. It gave me an impression that Twilight was moving into this building.

But it’s not new. It’s been there all along.

So even if Twilight does move into the “city gates,” there’s nothing in the episode confirming that.

Feb 18, 2013 at 11:31PM EST

Verbose wrote:

I’m not sure if it follows that she’d have more than a few episodes with her friends back in Ponyville

I did say “a few”, didn’t I?

The transformation to alicorn is simply symbolic and comes with being a princess.

I don’t think Twi’s ascension was honorary. It’s been quite clear from the very start that Celestia’s got plans for her. Too bad there’s little telling what those plans might be.

Here’s a little theory, though.

Twi figured out how to manipulate destiny, yes? Given how happy Celly evidently was with that, I’d say she’s trying to find a way to cheat her way out of some terrible outcome. The Legacy of Kain series had a story built on that concept, with the titular vampire despot trying to force the timeline off its rails so that the end result wouldn’t be quite so nasty.

As for whether the term mane six is applicable any longer, I’d say it is. After all, here are six whose fates are inextricably intertwined, who share bonds unbreakable. True, one of them now stands apart, but the truth is that she always did. It is simply more pronounced now.


Ah, it would appear that the article now has some backing. Of course, since they’ve not provided a copy of the exchange, we only have their word for it. Who’s to say they weren’t contacted by an imposter? Assuming that it is genuine, who’s to say the article’s intel is good? So, while this is a big boost to the rumour’s credibility, it’s still no 100% confirmation. But then, I make it a point to be skeptical to a fault, so take that as you will.

No confirmation on the image, though. I personally find it a bit doubtful they’d go with that sort of thing, but given that Hasbro might be taking the wheel on this one…

Feb 19, 2013 at 12:50AM EST
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@Mane Six dress designs

Rainbow Dash’s garments are exceptionally well designed. The fluffy trim, reminiscent of clouds, sets the overall sky theme. The blue coloring may not be sky blue, but that’s probably for the best since Dashie is already sky blue. The yellow accents the blue fairly well, and also goes with the sky theme, as evidenced by the lightning bolt pendant on the front of the dress. My only complaint is that the hat looks too much like that of a musketeer. Not unfitting for her I suppose, but it looks a bit odd with a formal dress.

Simple. Natural. Elegant. Not much to elaborate on, but no real need to. Very well done.

The dress she made to regain her cutie mark is the same one she wears at the end of the episode. Not only that, but it sports a purple gemstone identical to that of her Element of Harmony while it is unaltered. Pretty neat little details. I really love the color scheme on this one. The shades of purple compliment her own hair color. White, purple, and gold have been used throughout history to show nobility, making a similar motif very fitting for a pony who strives to be the image of high society. While the pale yellow plumage isn’t quite gold, it still sets the aristocratic style as well. I suppose that was to set her outfit apart from Luna’s, but they definitely shouldn’t have! Gold? On dark blue? Clearly it should have been silver.

Most of these designs are more simplistic than the gala dresses. That isn’t inherently good, nor bad, but I don’t like it as much in Pinkie’s case. I do like how her flank isn’t plastered in candy corn anymore, though throwing all of the candy on her hat draws more unnecessary attention to an accessory. In visual art mediums, you use this technique to bring more focus on the main subject, which in this case should be the dress. Overall, it’s not bad, but it could have been better.

Couldn’t find an image for Applejack’s dress outside of the groupshot. It’s probably for the best. Bright blue and orange? She looks like a rodeo clown. She had a sort of colonial American motif going on, which could have been cool if not for the eyesore colors they selected.

Oh my god, you can even see where she haphazardly glued the wings on. 2/10, would not wear to a coronation.

@Possible addition to the mane cast

OOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHH FORESHADOWING! LOOKIT THEM SPARKLES!

@Mane Six dynamic

As long as the six are still friends, and still interact, I’ll always see them as the mane six. The way Celestia tells Twilight she won’t be her student in the same way as before makes me think that friendship lessons are just going to get replaced by HARDCORE PRINCESS MAGIC AND/OR LEADERSHIP CLASSES, but the dynamic will stay the same.

@Something completely different

Go back and watch the episode. When you see Doctor Whooves along with the other ponies nagging at Rarity for the weather (at about 1:30), his cutie mark is also changed. But at the end of the coronation (about 20:30) after reversing the spell, the doctor’s cutie mark returns.

Feb 19, 2013 at 01:14AM EST
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@Fifths

You know, I hate to say this, but that finale has really managed to kill my enthusiasm for pony. That episode…I just can’t make it work, I can’t find a way to fit it into a mindset where mlp is still cool. I’m not even pissed off anymore, I just don’t care. Whatever magic I once felt was there has been throughly extinguished for me.

Maybe this is just a temporary thing and my love for the show will come back in time, but for now, pony just strikes me as terribly uninteresting. So yeah, guess this is it. Later pony general.

I can understand how you feel.

I think what makes Alicorn Twilight such a hard thing to swallow is just the fact that we know it was added by Hasbro purely to please their marketers. The writers hated the idea, the fans hated the idea. But the decision went forward on behalf of business.

Selling out is when you create what you are told to make and not what you want to make. As a musician, you probably know that and hence find Hasbro’s decision so disheartening

If it wasn’t a marketing move, maybe it wouldn’t be so bad. But then again if the writers weren’t doing it on behalf of Hasbro’s marketing squad, they probably would not have added it into the script in the first place

I prefer not to care at all about the Alicorn business. But I cannot shake the feeling that Hasbro’s abrupt jamming of a 4th alicorn into the series really makes it feel like we are going back to a glorified toy commercial again (Woo, Twilights a princess now! Buy the figurine girls!). That’s what made the previous generations so hard to watch and it will make G4 hard to watch too.

For all those people who were screaming doom and gloom about the whole thing; that’s what they are afraid of.

I don’t feel like watching the finale right now. The spoilers gave me the gist of it anyway. Might watch it later in another synctube or something unless one of you guys can assure me Larson pulled it off and made the ending feel right.

I’m hoping it wont (and it probably wont), but if season 4 bases the events on the show around toys that need selling and not a story that needs telling, I’ll no longer be interested in watching it either.

But some food for thought for you…do we really need the show to be cool?

As creeps and lurkers of the internet, it is not really our job to have to like a kids show and watch it regularly anyway.

It’s our job to make image macro’s out of it and post them on 4chan. It’s our job to make cross-over fanart. It’s our job to make jokes and parodies. It’s our job to troll people by posting ponies all over the internet.

We can stop watching the show and ignore all the things Hasbro creates, but we can still stick around for the things we create. Right?

I’ll be hanging around for as long as we have stuff like this.

Last edited Feb 19, 2013 at 02:27AM EST
Feb 19, 2013 at 02:18AM EST
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I think that it’s gone from “Mane Six” to “Twilight Sparkle and five other ponies.”

…Umm… Hate to break it to you, but I feel that is something that has always be a thing. There has never been a time this was not a thing.

Twilight, by her connections to Celestia, her intelligence, and her skills, has always been leader… what has changed is only that she is officially recognized as one.

Now… Let’s not get bogged down with Semantics about what the “Mane 6” means. There’s so far, still six, and they are still part of the same team with the main focus.

So is the Mane 6 still a thing? Yeah, what’s changed is mostly a measure of how we count them up.

Previously, to count it up, we went “Two Unicorns, Two Pegasi and Two Earth Ponies.”
Now we count it like “One Princess, Two Pegasi, Two Earth Ponies, and One Unicorn.”

Now, I’m going to admit, this feels wrong to count them up that way, and the alternative feels too Stereotypical. So… I feel the need to say… I think we need a new Unicorn.

I’m not sure how to describe it, but I think it’s in part because… While a single Alicorn as the leader is acceptable thanks to a focus principle, the fact that Rarity is on her own feels unbalanced. She’s a mostly common race, but not one mistakable for a base template, and thus her being on her own feels… Wrong.

So… For now, while Mane 6 is still a “thing”, it might become Mane 7 to keep the balance.

Last edited Feb 19, 2013 at 03:33AM EST
Feb 19, 2013 at 03:30AM EST
Quote

I am not really interested to buy the bronydoc, but the interviews are a different thing…

Watch the Lauren Faust part! Seriously it is really insightfull and she talks about DESTINY

The show doesn’t differ a bit, from her plans. It still follows her route and strangely I guess this could be seen as spoilery for the rest of the show. She has no idea, that everything is still on track…

Actually my problem with alicorn Twi is, that she is coming too early. This interview is in fact supporting my theory and I am going to continue my little write up this evening, when I can’t really learn anymore.

Edit:
@ZeroBlue
This! I completly agree with you. A new friend in town will be able to revive the dynamic and give new possibilities for the show.

Last edited Feb 19, 2013 at 03:59AM EST
Feb 19, 2013 at 03:46AM EST
Quote

We find ourselves in a place.
A fanciful realm not of sight and sound, but of magic… and friendship.
A land where man, with all his terrible tendencies, has never set foot and instead, ponies, the picture of child-like innocence, are the norm.
But is this utopia truly what it seems?
Can such a place even be said to exist at all?
Find out in…

The Twilight Zone.

(Damn, it is really hard to try to write like Rod Serling…)


@New main Character
We do know one thing:


Sorry, Seth.


@Twi’s position
I do think there will be some kind of shift in the dynamics of the group simply because it’s hard to imagine there not being one after such a big change.
I don’t think that it will be overwhelming though.
Yes, princesses do get a fair degree of reverence, but they are not always treated as ‘others,’ especially not by the main six.
Just look at how they talked to Celestia at the beginning of Flutter On.
Basically the exact reaction you would expect when someone brings up a crazy plan, not toned down by any ‘royal reverence.’
Since the other five are even more familiar with Twilight pre-alicornication, I can see them treating her pretty much the same as they always have for the most part.
Yeah, they might fall in line behind her from time to time, but she’s always been the de-facto leader of the group anyway.
Honestly, I don’t know the full extent of how the show will change, but I’m optimistic that we will still get to see all the characters we know and love getting to be themselves in more crazy situations!


@Fifths
But…
But you can’t leave…

What will I do without you?…

(Don’t go too far, man! We’ll be here!)

Last edited Feb 19, 2013 at 04:13AM EST
Feb 19, 2013 at 03:58AM EST
Quote

Hm. I still mostly disagree (on “Mane Six” fitting the group.) I hope I’m not sounding like Coily/Stantz here. So I’ll have to address all of your points…bleh. Usually, I only have to address a couple. I probably won’t link to much, because I woke up a little early, and I want to go back to sleep soon.
 
A reason I don’t completely disagree is because I don’t really know for sure how the dynamics will play out in Season 4. I’m confident that we’re all speculating, but the show would have to make an unconfirmed change in focus for the Mane Six to be separate protagonists most of the time.

Another reason I don’t completely disagree is because you’re right in that Twilight was always separate from the rest of the Mane Six anyway. She’s the student of Princess Celestia (we only know of one that Princess Celestia teaches and mentors.) She moved to Ponyville long after everyone else. Even as a bearer of an Element of Harmony, she wears a big crown thingy whereas everyone else wears necklaces. She’s also a dirty tyrannical whore.


 
Fluttershy lives on the edge of Ponyville.
Applejack lives at the edge of Ponyville.
Rainbow Dash lives, um, above Ponyville?
Pinkie Pie lives in Ponyville.
Rarity lives in Ponyville.
Twilight Sparkle lived in Ponyville.

Remember that as I made that statement and posed the question, I was going partially on the knowledge that Twilight had her own castle/mansion outside of Ponyville. We don’t really know where Twilight will live now. But for any princess, would you expect her to live in a library or would you expect her to live in a house befitting royalty?

There are many expectations of princesses in this universe from what we’ve seen so far (i.e., the similarities among Cadance, Luna, and Celestia.) If Twilight is a princess like them, then she would have the attributes which generally make the princesses appear above other characters. Characteristics that, yes, a role describes Twilight (if not defines Twilight) after the last episode.

So it appears that people are still downplaying the fact that Twilight is a princess in this universe.

However, it seems like a couple of people didn’t see that as a point of separation anyway.


After all, here are six whose fates are inextricably intertwined, who share bonds unbreakable.

I think when we say (or at least when I think) “Mane Six,” it’s a pun of “Main” from “Main protagonists.” It also implies (to me) that those protagonists are equally protagonists and in the same way.

I think that if you have episodes that focus on being a princess with royal duties that affect the well-being of a country and your lessons are about leadership where the other protagonists have lessons on friendship, then that feels more like the protagonists of the show aren’t really together anymore. Thus the “Twilight Sparkle and five other ponies.” That doesn’t mean Pinkie Pie, Rarity, Applejack, Fluttershy, and Rainbow Dash aren’t important in terms of being protagonists. I think it means they are separate protagonists from Twilight Sparkle.
 
Or more simply, I’ll have to see if their fates are intertwined by more than being the Elements of Harmony. On the whole, the show has very little to do with the Elements of Harmony.

True, one of them now stands apart, but the truth is that she always did. It is simply more pronounced now.

I think that the further separation of Twilight isn’t irrelevant in regards to them being a group of protagonists. Again, if Twilight is a princess like the other three we know of, then it makes sense in-universe for her to have an entirely different set of day-to-day events that far exceed the differences among taking care of animals or running a boutique.


As long as the six are still friends, and still interact, I’ll always see them as the mane six.

Again, my understanding of Mane Six is that they are equally and similarly the main protagonists. Friendship is irrelevant to how I define Mane Six if I had to sit down and think about it (as I am now), and I’m not sure if it makes sense for them to have the same level of interaction anymore. At any point, Rarity could pop up in an episode to help out Pinkie Pie with a problem.

If Twilight “happens to be on a walk” in Ponyville (again, assuming she has a significant role and duties as a princess) to help Applejack find Apple Bloom or something, and she ends up in more than, say, 2-3 episodes of an inconsequential matter, I’ll have my suspension of belief threatened. The coronation didn’t do that too much, actually. But her frequent appearance at casual events while serving the role as princess would.
 
Now to appeal to ZeroBlue, if Rainbow Dash was a princess, then I’d say it makes perfect sense for her to bail out on her duties if she wanted to fly around or take some time off. She’d fulfill her duties, and her leadership style would certainly be different. But Dash will fly and Dash will hang out with her friends.

Twilight is a workaholic. Even her time with friends is scheduled in literally minute detail. Something’s got to give in terms of core, probably-shouldn’t-change-all-that-much personality (e.g.., attention to detail, curiosity, awkwardness) or world building in order for her to be with her friends like always. (I do expect to see some aspects of Twilight change. I’m generally OK with her not being quite as panicky as she was before.) I’d rather see Equestria make sense and Twilight’s core personality be maintained than see Twilight stay together with her friends in the same way.

The way Celestia tells Twilight she won’t be her student in the same way as before makes me think that friendship lessons are just going to get replaced by HARDCORE PRINCESS MAGIC AND/OR LEADERSHIP CLASSES, but the dynamic will stay the same.

I’m not sure if you can sell me that the dynamic between Twilight and her friends will stay the same. I think that’s why some people think that a coronation would have been a good point to end the series. Not only is it an ultimate goal (or at least a huge turning point) for Twilight. The fact that lessons of friendship and lessons of leadership is a noted potential difference indicates that they’d have diffferent day-to-day lives that aren’t likely to lead into learning the same lesson.

…Umm… Hate to break it to you, but I feel that is something that has always be a thing. There has never been a time this was not a thing…There’s so far, still six, and they are still part of the same team with the main focus.

There’s a consensus that it is a thing though. And again, Mane Six seems to denote that the main six characters are similar in their roles as protagonists and are tied in their roles as protagonists.

If the show takes on an arc-based set-up, then I could see the Mane Six being intact. They’d all be bound by having similar adventures.

What I say is in relation to what made them similar main protagonists prior to the coronation: misadventures (e.g., babysitting, making dresses for a formal event) that can sometimes threaten Equestria in a more humorous way e.g., Spike is rampaging after turning into a massive monster, Cerberus escaped from the gates of Hell) that’s resolved at the end of the episode than a serious way (i.e., King Sombrero, Swiss cheese, Dark and Broody with Envy, Chaos Incarnate)

Again, the show stands just as well without epic adventures or a bound destiny. I think “Mane Six” just focuses on what makes them protagonists of the show (“Mane” characters or protagonists numbering six). I think that’s mostly their less threatening day-to-day events.

Last edited Feb 19, 2013 at 09:34AM EST
Feb 19, 2013 at 09:22AM EST
This! I completly agree with you. A new friend in town will be able to revive the dynamic and give new possibilities for the show.

Wait, what?

I don’t disagree, but I’m actually OK with Twilight having her own dealings, the rest of the characters having their own happenings, and then they come together occasionally or for when Twilight needs five other competent (Fluttershy notwithstanding) ponies that she can trust in the tightest of pinches.
 
I’m not implying that the show is going to be bad, by the way. I think it’s going to need to change to preserve the sense that it isn’t just a toy commercial and that it is its own universe where major events change smaller matters such as the dynamics of friendships (and out of universe, the focus of who is a main character and how a group of main characters exist as a group.)


Yes, princesses do get a fair degree of reverence, but they are not always treated as ‘others,’ especially not by the main six.
Just look at how they talked to Celestia at the beginning of Flutter On.

I think that was because she was proposing (Read as and properly interpret as: ordering) them to release and reform one of the greatest threats to Equestria in its history…twice. If President Obama asked me to go revive Adolf Hitler, then I would also say “Pardon me, Mr. President.” in much less tactful terms.

And let’s not forget how the Mane Six tends to revere Celestia.

  • Twilight Sparkle says “There’s nothing casual about a visit from royalty!” in Swarm of the Century. Now I doubt she’d go off the deep end like she did during that episode, but I don’t think the concept of royalty changed in her mind since then.
    • As for her relationship to Cadance, well, Twilight knows her as a babysitter. She was never in a role of deference to her, and she likely didn’t know her as a princess in the same way as she knew Celestia.
  • Remember how Rarity reacts to Celestia giving a her a room in one of the royal quarters? Or how she failed to properly react upon the request to making dresses for Princess Cadance? Rarity does that all of the time. What made this situation any different?
  • Fluttershy’s an idiot anyway. Fluttershy (and actually the loud, blue pone as well) is different. I was never given the impression that she didn’t revere Celestia, and she was more concerned with taking care of a sick animal. More or less, her reason for living. Unless you’re a royal guard or knight, your destiny and meaning of life isn’t trumped by royalty.
  • Dash simply seems to respond to any leadership role from people she respects. She responds to Twilight in the same way she responds to Celestia…as long as the plan makes sense on the surface. Otherwise, it doesn’t matter who you are. But that speaks more to the complexities of personalities in this universe more than the suggestion that royalty isn’t quite as revered, respected, if not feared as they are on Earth. Speaking of fear…
  • “Whoa, Nelly…” may very well have been as close to the “We’re royally (pun not intended but appreciated) boned,” F-bomb of the series at the end of Lesson Zero.

*I just imagined Pinkie getting upset with being called a “piglet,” and it made me giggle.

The same applies to Luna. Even being decidedly second to Celestia (what with the Nightmare Moon thing, I guess) I will grant that any fear during Luna Eclipsed was less due to the fact that she was a princess and more due to the fact that she was still seen and feared as Nightmare Moon.

As for expecting reverence, I think Luna (prior to and after Nightmare Moon,) Celestia, and Cadance were chosen as princesses (assuming they were “chosen” to some extent as Twilight has been either by destiny or by fulfilled potential,) I don’t think that those four will expect more than a simple bow at formal introductions. I don’t think you’d be seen in a great light if you demanded respect through imperative statements.

(See Nightmare Moon and the events of Luna Eclipsed.)
 
There was also that Scootaloo episode, but Scootaloo’s, like, 2 and a half. (Please don’t sick Brutaloo on me, DeadParrot.) She doesn’t know she was supposed to bow down and stuff. (This is a slight concession being wrapped up in attempted humor.)

I will grant that just as Twilight is friendly with Cadance since she knew her in a way that doesn’t defer to authority like the teacher-student relationship Twilight had with Celestia, the rest of the Mane Six will be less likely to respond to Twilight’s acts and presence like Twilight does/Rarity does/Applejack does with


Honestly, I don’t know the full extent of how the show will change, but I’m optimistic that we will still get to see all the characters we know and love getting to be themselves in more crazy situations!

And again, I’m not sure if you can downplay “princess” in Equestria. It was a series finale event even though marketing mandated that it occur before.
 
Perhaps the difference in my mind is based on how different I’ve always seen princesses in this universe. It’s nearly incompatible with being on the same level as a subject. So one of two things have to happen for me. A fundamental deconstruction of my concept of their universe (I believe the Crystal Empire is separate from Equestria?) would be required on my part otherwise. And it would take a professionally done episode or two for me to even bother with that considering I have 65 episodes creating my current concept.

  • My understanding of “princess” will have to change. That will take away from my concept of the universe. You might not think that’s a big deal, but there are small things about your lives and your perceptions of things that cannot be changed so easily. Whether it’s how a husband should act, how your mother should be, what alcohol does, or something like a changing sexual orientation or religious affiliation, these changes change your take on the world around you.
     
    As a viewer, these matters don’t affect me or my view of my world. It merely affects how I view Equestria and how I come to relate to it. If Twilight is more like she was in Seasons 1 and 2 in regards to how she interacts with her friends, then I think the world building ends up being sacrificed for me. And believe it or not (not a sarcastic clause,) Equestria is actually bigger than the Mane Six to me in relationship to the show Friendship is Magic. After the last episode (not considering the other parts of the episode to come as they are undefined,) I’d much rather break my concept of “Mane Six” than to break my concept of what boils down to “universe in Friendship is Magic.”
  • Twilight is a princess as we’ve seen princesses in the show and she is mostly separate from her friends with the occasional visit while on business, Unless they are directly tied to her by how they are related to each other on a day-to-day basis in the future, I think the coronation properly separates them as a group. What they’ve done and what they’ve experienced together isn’t irrelevant, and it doesn’t make them care about each other any less. But prior to the coronation, they were bound as neighbors who came together by being regular ponies who simply liked each other. Twilight herself, by her role, is not like anyone else anymore.

For example, my best friend is getting married. Even though he still cares about me, the role of “husband” (which is a much less formal role than “princess”) will make hanging out and having minor adventures a lot more difficult. Subjectively, (as ZeroBlue touched on) it doesn’t feel right for him to spend a lot of time away from his wife on a regular basis. He needs to see to his role as a husband, even though he’s cared about her in the same way for years now. It honestly tears me up a bit, and personally, it takes a lot for me to not begin a process of removing myself from him before the fulfilling role of husband does it to me.

I don’t think the the fact that “princess” is a role Twilight now plays makes it any less incompatible with being like the other five protagonists. I think the show and the universe makes more sense with them being more separate. I’d rather see episodes focus on Twilight with the occasional appearance by one of the other protagonists, and episodes focus one/two/three of the other protagonists with the occasional appearance by Twilight.

Whenever Rita escapes from her pod on the moon, they come together to fight off her giant monster in the Ponyzord. It doesn’t make the show less appealing, but I think it’s certainly a change.

Last edited Feb 19, 2013 at 09:38AM EST
Feb 19, 2013 at 09:24AM EST

 
 
Of course, you can always say the way I see it is simply wrong. But I think my concept of their society/societies and roles is just less malleable than I think their dynamics as main protagonists should be.


Saw this as I woke up:

Truth.


Fifths will be back. If I know my people. then he’ll be back if just for the people here.

Now if’n you’ll excuse me, I just moved two hours of sleep (for a failed argument), and I need to get them back.

Feb 19, 2013 at 09:24AM EST

Verbose, I find that you’re more looking for reasons now to justify your dislike for Twilicorn than actually disliking it. True, we are speculating, but so are you. I will accept you won’t like the change, but you have to accept that we do.


So it appears that people are still downplaying the fact that Twilight is a princess in this universe.

>Implying the title “princess” forces you to act all royaly and rule your subjects.

But her frequent appearance at casual events while serving the role as princess would be.

>Implying a Princess is not allowed to do casual stuff with other inhabitants.

Remember Luna in that camping episode? That didn’t seem all princess-like to me. I don’t remember ever seeing Luna do Princess duties.


Again, my understanding of Mane Six is that they are equally and similarly the main protagonists. Friendship is irrelevant to how I define Mane Six if I had to sit down and think about it (as I am now), and I’m not sure if it makes sense for them to have the same level of interaction anymore.

Remember season 1? Every episode there had to contain Twilight. It wasn’t until season 2 that she could be left out in certain episodes.

Twilight always was a bigger protagonist, nothing has changed.

Last edited Feb 19, 2013 at 09:49AM EST
Feb 19, 2013 at 09:37AM EST
Quote

Blah, I’m still editing the previous posts for mistakes, but I can address RM’s points rather quickly.
 
On the whole, I think you think I actually don’t like Twilight Sparkle anymore.

The running gag about Twilight Sparkle being promiscuous or a tyrant is purely for fun. It’s not indicative of me disliking her personality anymore, because I haven’t seen that change. I don’t think I ever said I wasn’t going to dislike the change. That’s jumping to a conclusion in itself.

True, we are speculating, but so are you. I will accept you won’t like the change, but you have to accept that we do.

Again, there’s a lot to read up there, but I said that I was speculating. And when have I ever been a person to try to make a person like or dislike something? I’m simply saying that I don’t think things will be (or should be, to preserve the universe as presented) the same. And if people disagree, then that’s the making of a debate. The objective here is to discuss the matter for kicks, really. At whatever point it no longer becomes fun, we bail and move on to a different subject.

Such is KYM Pony General.

Verbose, I find that you’re more looking for reasons now to justify your dislike for Twilicorn than actually disliking it.

In all of what I said in the post above, I don’t think I said anything about an alicorn. I’m talking about her being a princess.


>Implying the title “princess” forces you to act all royaly and rule your subjects

Again, there’s a lot of text, so I don’t guess you saw it. But I go by what I’ve seen the three other princess do. And the royal duties aren’t so much about ruling as they are royal duties. Think about the visits Celestia has and the visits the current princesses have. Audiences they have. Things like that.

I think it’s a more logical speculation to think that “princess” stays in-line with what we’ve seen it as being than to see it change for a new princess. I think that’s a fair speculation, even if it ends up not being correct.


>Implying a Princess is not allowed to do casual stuff with other inhabitants.

Never said she couldn’t. But I expect that she’ll be busier than what she was as a librarian and student.

Heck, other people have said that she’ll be away from her friends more often. And that’s all I’m saying.


Remember season 1? Every episode there had to contain Twilight. It wasn’t until season 2 that should could be left out in certain episodes.

Twilight always was a bigger protagonist, nothing has changed.

Never claimed that she wasn’t a bigger protagonist.

I’m saying that she’s a different protagonist.

Everybody’s had lessons about friendship in the main protagonists. Sometimes, there weren’t lessons of friendship later on. That’s the tie they had as main protagonists: they often had the same issues. Not the fact that they’re they bearers of the Elements of Harmony. Again, the Elements rarely present themselves in the series.

Now if Twilight is often away and learning different things (or mostly applying what she’s learned about friendship) in a context far removed from her friends, then I think that makes her a separate main protagonist as opposed to a focused protagonist.


I’m honestly not trying to promote any doom and gloom. For the first time in a while, I’m actually intrigued about what the show will do.

That’s the reason I’m nitpicking.

I do know that it burns you more than others when people like Fifths or Popper threaten to leave the fandom or say the show is going to crap. But I’m not that guy. I can be somewhere in the “middle.”

Last edited Feb 19, 2013 at 09:58AM EST
Feb 19, 2013 at 09:55AM EST

Verbose wrote:

Please don’t double/triple post in threads. Thanks.

MFW this page:

@Twilight being a princess

Things Equestrian princesses do that would be unbecoming for human princesses:

Yeah, I’m with RandomMan here. I’m not too worried that “being a princess” requires a particularly large change in behavior for Twilight.

Last edited Feb 19, 2013 at 12:26PM EST
Feb 19, 2013 at 12:19PM EST
Quote

@Bulletproof

sigh…

There is a character limit to your posts (i.e.,10,000 characters.)

If you exceed that limit, then you cannot post.

Therefore, if you exceed that limit, then you must make a second consecutive post in order to post.
 
So to sum, it is one post.


As for behavior unfit for a princess, don’t let any one instance (or even exceptions) guide most counter arguments. Even Luna, who was generally acting out in Luna Eclipses generally conducts herself in a regal manner.

I back my stance as how a princess should act with the sum of the princesses duties.

  • Seeing to a disaster in your cities
  • Organizing task forces and militant action against mighty foes
  • Meet and greets at the Grand Galloping Gala
  • Audiences with subjects
  • Patrolling terrifying dreams (and otherwise serving your subjects)
  • Visits to cities
  • Formal visits to cities and affairs
  • Foreign affairs with other countries

And that’s just the things that I can actually give specific examples for in the show. I’d guess that they do lots more.

I do not think that dancing at a wedding, playing a practical joke, and dancing (still at a wedding) means that they are not regal, and I’m absolutely positive that it is not their general behavior.

Come strong or don’t come at all, yo.

Last edited Feb 19, 2013 at 12:55PM EST
Feb 19, 2013 at 12:54PM EST


@Verbs
First off, THE TEXT!
So much TEXT!

Really earning your name today, aren’t you?

Just for the record, I can see where you’re coming from in terms of thinking that Twilight’s ‘new duties’ will require a change in the show, but I kind of think that the potential effect that you think it will have on the show is based more on your assumptions of what a princess should be than what princesses have actually been shown to be.
Completely understandable, but that does mean that there is some wiggle room for the writers.

As an example, I’ll play with the idea of royal duties.
Yes, the princesses do seem to have things that they must attend to at times, but it also seems highly variable.
Celestia is pretty solidly the head of state, but what exactly does Luna do on a day-to-day basis?
We’ve seen her attend a holiday celebration in Ponyville, help watch over Canterlot sometimes (though that seemed to be something that they were only doing because of a threat), and wander through dreams (not exactly what I would call a ‘royal duty’).
Other than that, as far as we know, Luna could be off just doing whatever she wants most of the time.
She sure doesn’t seem to show up at a lot of Canterlot events where you might expect royalty to attend.

That tea party scene with Celestia shows a lot, too.
She is clearly the most ‘royal’ of the alicorns and even she likes to keep it relatively casual.
It is rather everypony else who expects a level of formality from her.
I actually think it would be a nice little point to bring up in reference to Twilight when the show comes back.
I could see some ponies treating her more reverently (like the Cakes) and having Twi make a point of asking them not to do that.
She’s lived in the town with them for years and she doesn’t want to be treated differently now just because of her new position.
It would certainly come up from time to time, but for the most part, I could see her being treated ‘normally’ after some initial awkwardness.

Fluttershy (and actually the loud, blue pone as well) is different. I was never given the impression that she didn’t revere Celestia, and she was more concerned with taking care of a sick animal. More or less, her reason for living. Unless you’re a royal guard or knight, your destiny and meaning of life isn’t trumped by royalty.

The important part about Fluttershy’s view of royalty is actually right at the beginning of the episode, before she ever takes the bird.
Meeting up with Celestia, even for someone as shy as her, is about the same as meeting anyone else.
There is some pomp and circumstance, but it is far less than anything we see in the human equivalent.
Twilight is the one freaking out about ‘royalty’ (and Rarity, but she does that around anyone with power or social standing).
To me, that implies that some chunk of the population at least is able to interact with princesses in a relatively casual manner.

Scootaloo’s, like, 2 and a half.

Yeah, Scoot ain’t no baby.
I think she’d be plenty old enough to know how society is expected to treat princesses and her relatively casual conversation with Luna implies that those rules aren’t overly strict.
(Also, I don’t really consider her dream-walking to be ‘serving her subjects’ as much as just ‘being helpful’ in a way that only she can be.)


From a very practical, out-of-universe perspective, I’m sort of expecting to see Twi’s royalty used more as a plot device than as a redefining character attribute.
For example, were Spike at Your Service to air now, Twilight would be distracted by a sudden rush of ‘royal decrees’ or something rather than suddenly having to read 12 books over a weekend.
The functional result (distracting and removing Twilight from the action) is the same, just the context has changed.
Obviously, there will absolutely be episodes that do focus on Twi’s new station (They can’t avoid it), but I’m guessing that it will be somewhat downplayed outside of those situations, especially in episodes that are going to focus on other characters.

Feb 19, 2013 at 01:43PM EST
Quote

I can agree with much of what you said, DeadParrot, and I don’t think I adamantly oppose any of it.


As for the text, like I said, I’m genuinely intrigued about this (potential) change in the show. I haven’t typed this much on any one page since earlier Pony Generals.

  • If things stay too much the same, then it really will feel like DHX just came up with an episode to satisfy Hasbro instead of going with the mandated change and making the most of it.
  • If Twilight is more like a princess as (I believe) I’ve seen them, then I have no issue with there being a “Twilight and the other ponies” set-up where most episodes don’t include Twilight and her friends together unless it makes sense story-wise and universe-wise.

So I talk about it with a little bit of concern, because I can see how DHX wants to keep things the same, but it would sorta render the meaningfulness of a major event void if it didn’t significantly effect Twilight’s life. I’d adjust and then of it as “that one time,” but I’d prefer to see the writers turn an oddly timed coronation into something that still makes enough sense on all fronts as opposed to working it back to “normal” as quickly as possible.
 
So congratulations: Everybody gets to deal with scrolling past my long-behind posts until I’m less intrigued.
 
But the main thing here is that I’m not really just speculating, as you said correctly. Or at least no more than anyone else. They are assumptions based off of expectations given the universe (or so I claim.)

…but I kind of think that the potential effect that you think it will have on the show is based more on your assumptions of what a princess should be than what princesses have actually been shown to be.

I’ll sorta cede that, I guess.

When thinking about all of that myself, I did identify that my thoughts are based on what should be the case. So even though I don’t remember saying it specifically (perhaps I did,) it might have made itself appear in my, um, post.

Which goes back to what I said a while back. It’s a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation in my mind.

  • If Twilight isn’t at least expected to conduct herself as a princess or has princess-like duties that other princesses have (you did properly dispute some of them, like the Luna dream thing,) then I think it takes away from a coronation that did totally happen. I still maintain that she won’t have nearly as much time for her friends, even if she is stationed in Ponyville.
  • Meghan McCarthy from the Entertainment Weekly article: “I don’t think becoming a princess really changes her (shown in her personality in the finale); I think it’s going to introduce some new challenges for her (yet to be seen, but certainly challenges that she hasn’t seen before.)
  • If Twilight ends up being very busy and we never or rarely see her amongst her friends in Ponyville, then we miss out on Twilight interacting with the rest of the main protagonists in low-pressure sorts of situations not to mention more complex interactions where Twilight interacts with two or three other ponies (e.g., Rarity and Applejack in Rarity’s kitchen in Spike at Your Service, but Rainbow Dash coming in (In Soviet Russia…) and being herself made it even funnier.)

     
    Now if you really want to swing it around so that Twilight goes back to being a regular pony, then the proposed three-part episode could play out as:

    1. Season 3, Episode 13: Twilight Sparkle gets coronated.
    2. Season 4, earlier in the season: Twilight takes on princess-like duties and rarely gets to talk with her friends. She learns more about leadership and friendship in a different context.
    3. Season 4, later in the season, if not episodes 25-26: Twilight is somehow forced to sacrifice her title of princess. Perhaps Sombrero has something to do with manipulating Twilight’s heart to become a tyrant herself.

    I’d feel better about that than just things going back to the way they were so easily.


    I’m not sure if I addressed everything DeadParrot wrote, but you can call me on something if I didn’t, and I can come back around to it for sure (either to concede the point or try to defend it again.)

    Poneh on.

  • Feb 19, 2013 at 03:46PM EST

    Sorry to interrupt the current topic, but I recently ran across this article from the Daily Dot right here that claims our fandom and the BronyDoc are sexist against women. Now I haven’t seen the Documentary, but I’m curious if anyone who has would care to contribute some other insights?

    Feb 19, 2013 at 04:49PM EST
    Quote

    Okay I am just going back a second again.

    Throughout season 3 there have been a couple of clues leading to it. This dialogue between the two sisters in the opener and not to forget the book in the end*. Another part is that Twilight kept the elements of Harmony after Discord’s redemption in ponyville, so that the elements were close at hand and could be used during the finale. One of the most important lessons Twilight has learned in this season was keeping calm and reasonable even under distress and she learned this directly from Cadence. You could call it learning to be a princess from another princess.
    I am not sure if this fits in the same category, but Cadence once said that Twilight is not a regular old unicorn. This makes me wonder now, if Cadence was intentionally assigned to Twilight by Celestia, but this could be a bit far fetched.

    When Season 3 was produced, perhaps it wasn’t really clear, if there is going to be a Season 4 or not. This episode could have been the end of FiM, it just has this feeling attached to it. Twilight has reached the goal, she is a princess now. Can you go any higher in the equestrian job ladder?
    They could have ended the series with this episode, even though the other mane5’s destinies aren’t reached yet, but they have left enough room for more. There are just so many open questions left. The episode was condensed and very efficient with the screen time, but in the end the coronation still feels like this for me:

    It just doesn’t really fit in the time frame, but there has to be a shortcut.

    Welp you know what, I don’t really think that this is such a huge toy insertion anymore. I am a bit confused right now.

    And why are you guys already two steps ahead? I am still figuring out the prelude…

    Edit:
    *Did you know that the season 3 opener ends with “everything is going to be fine” as well?

    Last edited Feb 19, 2013 at 05:17PM EST
    Feb 19, 2013 at 05:11PM EST
    Quote

    aerolyt wrote:

    Sorry to interrupt the current topic, but I recently ran across this article from the Daily Dot right here that claims our fandom and the BronyDoc are sexist against women. Now I haven’t seen the Documentary, but I’m curious if anyone who has would care to contribute some other insights?

    Everything is sexist against women these days as long as there’s hardcore feminists out there.

    This is probably just because at this point there’s more Male Bronies than Female Bronies (I hate the term Pegasister, all hardcore fans of My Little Pony FiM are Bronies in my book) and because of that there’s probably more male bronies than female bronies shown in the Documentary. That = Sexist these days.

    Feb 19, 2013 at 05:11PM EST
    Quote

    aerolyt wrote:

    Sorry to interrupt the current topic, but I recently ran across this article from the Daily Dot right here that claims our fandom and the BronyDoc are sexist against women. Now I haven’t seen the Documentary, but I’m curious if anyone who has would care to contribute some other insights?

    To be fair, the doc does include one of the major plush artists – but only as the girlfriend of one of the subjects, merely to reinforce our collective heterosexuality. She has a point, BronyDoc-wise.

    However, she makes several key mistakes in her article: She only focuses on the BronyDoc, which was awful anyways and did way too much to try to validate us as a culture, and as much as she tried to avoid it, she makes it painfully clear that she is prejudiced against us. For the BronyDoc focus, that’s just poor. There are so many communities online, and every one I’ve ever been to has a large portion of female fans. And as for the prejudice, come on. She tries to hide it, but the choices of pictures and her wording make it obvious that she has a poor opinion of the fandom. Sure, it’s an opinion piece, but could you at least have someone who doesn’t have prejudices about the fandom write about about prejudices within the fandom?

    Plus she references her own article, which I find to be rather unprofessional.

    All I have to say is this: I’ve seen a lot of Brony communities. I’ve seen a lot of female fans within those communites and held as equals. One of those female fans is one of my favorite TF2 teammates. If she’d looked at any more than one source, she would have seen how ridiculous her opinion is.

    Feb 19, 2013 at 05:31PM EST
    Quote

    aerolyt wrote:

    Sorry to interrupt the current topic, but I recently ran across this article from the Daily Dot right here that claims our fandom and the BronyDoc are sexist against women. Now I haven’t seen the Documentary, but I’m curious if anyone who has would care to contribute some other insights?

    There are particular subsections of the brony community, and you’ll find takes that lie all along the spectrum of ideals of what gender roles are supposed to be like. So if you look in one area, then yes, it’s quite sexist. If you look in another, then no, it’s quite the opposite.

    If you’re asking me, then I’d say that bronies (and many guys in Web Culture) are more sexist than most guys I came up with. When I took that one Women’s Studies class, I expected there to be a gay guy or an effeminate guy in there or perhaps a guy who didn’t subscribe to traditional norms of gender.

    There were three guys. Me, this straight black dude who was defined best by an astute friends as “being a mix of a jock, a prep, and a geek,” and two guys who were mixes of frat guys and rednecks. There were no stereotypical geeky guys, and it didn’t really surprise me. I’m not sure why, but a lot of the Web geek type guys that I’ve met hate feminists. The don’t believe in social advantage or disadvantage. And many who are receptive to those kinds of words tend to be sexual minorities or not traditionally male (e.g., gender queer.) Of course those kinds of people would be more receptive. It’s self-serving to be honest.
     
    The article is biased itself, and even inaccurate in a couple of places. I think there is a solid article out there that properly details the sexists aspects and areas of the brony fandom, but this wasn’t it.

    I am a self-proclaimed feminist, although a feminist might laugh when they ask me about certain takes I have on issues such as abortion. But I think articles like the one you linked to is a reason why many bronies will never or are so hesitant to lend a decent ear to topics like “oppression” or “systematic disadvantage.”
     
     
    Or a microcosm of the whole thing, people like Purple Tinker have a point, but they’re wicked terrible at presenting it. They need a little more MLK and a little less Malcolm X.

    Feb 19, 2013 at 06:00PM EST

    Verbose Wrote:

    Of course, you can always say the way I see it is simply wrong. But I think my concept of their society/societies and roles is just less malleable than I think their dynamics as main protagonists should be.

    That’s kinda what I was saying when I said the “Mane 6” was still a thing, except with the perspective flipped.

    Essentially, I see the Mane 6 as a title being so flexible that only a couple of things are needed for the title to still apply.

    …That was what I was addressing last time.

    Of course, this is one miniscule thing I insist on in what is otherwise a mountain of stuff that I can agree with provided we look at it the right way.

    Wait, what?

    I don’t disagree, but I’m actually OK with Twilight having her own dealings, the rest of the characters having their own happenings, and then they come together occasionally or for when Twilight needs five other competent (Fluttershy notwithstanding) ponies that she can trust in the tightest of pinches.

    If I remember correctly, the thing being addressed when I brought the issue up was because of an issue of there being no plausible way to keep the Secondary focus in balance without a new Unicorn.

    Because regardless of whether Twilight remains in close contact or goes off and does her own thing, a matter of Dynamic, the group Composition is off center due to the fact Twilight can’t really be counted as a Unicorn anymore, at least not without also counting her as a Pegasus.

    Either way, the ratio of Unicorns to Pegasi are skewed. Being either 1:2 or 2:3.

    Its a completely different issue almost, albeit with the same cause.


    Now, this leads us to a New Topic. What kind of Character would we want for a 7th member?

    So far, I’ve established a Unicorn would balance the Composition of the group, but that still leaves the Dynamic of a new character to be considered.

    I personally feel that with the two Tomboyish characters we have (Rainbow Dash, Applejack) and the three Feminine-esque Characters (Pinkie, Fluttershy, Rarity) along with the Decidedly Neutral attitude of Twilight Sparkle… The choice I feel is obvious, although not necessarily certain.

    Another Tomboy.

    But that leaves a lot of room for figuring out the specifics.

    Out of personal preference, I would love to see the new Unicorn be some kind of “Knight in Training”, with some focus on honor.

    In a sense it would make her a sort of mid point between Rainbow Dash and Applejack, with only a tiny hint of Rarity in terms of trying to keep up a social persona.

    Anyone else have an idea?

    Feb 19, 2013 at 07:43PM EST
    Quote

    aerolyt wrote:

    Sorry to interrupt the current topic, but I recently ran across this article from the Daily Dot right here that claims our fandom and the BronyDoc are sexist against women. Now I haven’t seen the Documentary, but I’m curious if anyone who has would care to contribute some other insights?

    I dunno, I haven’t seen the documentary. However I find it difficult to believe that anything involving Lauren Faust- who is one of the most hardcore feminists in the animation industry- could be even remotely sexist against women.

    Feb 19, 2013 at 07:49PM EST
    Quote

    Verbose Wrote:

    I’m not sure why, but a lot of the Web geek type guys that I’ve met hate feminists. The don’t believe in social advantage or disadvantage.

    Really? I’ve been complaining about how women are depicted for ages: on one hand, there are never enough Tomboy characters, not enough Female characters as Heroes in general, and even in non Heroic roles they are generally non-existent save as romantic interests.

    And in the few cases where a Tomboyish Hero Character DOES show up, we begin to realize that not a single person actually has any experience writing those characters.

    So far, the only character outside of MLP that is well known that I’m aware of that fits my ideal is Lightning from FFXIII, and I can tell that even she has some trouble being depicted, since she rarely gets seen doing anything outside her role as a soldier.

    Yes Verbose, I’ll admit this is self serving since my general rule for a romantic partner is somewhere along those lines. Although I usually phrase it as “Having the heart of a hero”.

    Feb 19, 2013 at 08:02PM EST
    Quote

    Hey guise, prepare your collective anuses for even more massive walls of text, this time one from the makers of Fighting is Magic.

    They seem unbutthurt.


    No idea how the the documentary could possibly be considered sexist. Seriously, the entire point of it is to focus on the male, 20 something year old fans of the show. Do we need to include every brony type there is out there in order to be politically correct? Might as well call Resident Evil 5 racist because the zombies are all Africans and the main characters are white. Wait.

    As much as females are cast aside in contemporary media (see Bechdel test), complaining against bronies for being sexist is absurd. Sure, there aren’t nearly as many female bronies out there, but I don’t think we can blame this on this perceived sense of sexism which frankly isn’t there. The pony fandom is quite possibly one of the most tolerant fandoms out there, and despite the bulk of bronies being “white, highly educated dudes,” to paraphrase that other brony survey guy (Verbose and Opspe OG), from what I’ve seen, no one cares if you’re black or blue or yellow or female or queer or not even human so long as you like brightly coloured pones.


    @feminism
    Obviously there’s a problem in the way the media portrays females. Video games in particular are probably the worst abusers of this (I wonder why). Of course something needs to be done about this. And who ya going to call? Yeah, not the extremist feminists out there that misrepresent the entire movement as a bunch of moralizing, whiny, dismissive, holier-than-thou misandrists. The problem with feminism today is that it’s led by radicals, or at least these are they types of feminists that are most visible, who complain a lot but don’t actually do anything to change anything. 99.99% of feminists aren’t like that at all.

    I’d say being a person who believes in the equality of sexes automatically makes you a feminist. And a masculist too. We have a long ways to go, but radicalism from either end ain’t the way to do it.

    Last edited Feb 19, 2013 at 08:44PM EST
    Feb 19, 2013 at 08:14PM EST
    Quote
    I’d say being a person who believes in the equality of sexes automatically makes you a feminist. And a masculist too. We have a long ways to go, but radicalism from either end ain’t the way to do it.

    Indeed, it’s a good idea for society to have equal focus on two opposites. Balance is one of the key factors that keeps society from tearing itself apart.

    Talking about gender balance, the more one looks at the issue, the more we begin to realize that as a society, we’re having trouble addressing one side of the issue. However, it’s a bad idea to attribute it to malice, it’s more likely due to ignorance, or some other mark of deficiency in ability to address the issue.

    In this Fandom, if females ever seem to be under represented… surprisingly, I don’t think it’s because there’s less females here, I think it’s because people are more likely to remember when a regular guy is seen.

    My main evidence for this is that there are roughly an equal number of men and women I know in this Fandom in Person. I think one girl said something weird about Rarity, something along the lines that she would make a fabulous gay if she was a guy.

    …Although, it could just be that I go to a Game Design College with the other half of the facility taken up by Film Students. Everyone there is Eccentric.

    Feb 19, 2013 at 09:15PM EST
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    Skeletor-sm

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