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Please. Read this.

Last posted Jul 26, 2012 at 07:38PM EDT. Added Jul 15, 2012 at 05:26AM EDT
28 posts from 15 users

I would like to ask for you assistant on the members of The Pirate Bay, who are being charged for crimes even though they don’t had enough concrete evidence under vague crimes.

http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Grant_Peter_Sundes_of_The_Pirate_Bay_plea_for_pardon/

Please, fill this petition. Help save a culture, help save freedom, help save our generation from evil corporations that leech from the bad copyright laws that the United States have. And, more importantly, Help Integrity Within The System.

http://falkvinge.net/2012/07/06/aftermath-of-the-pirate-bay-trial-peter-sundes-plea-in-his-own-words/

Jul 15, 2012 at 05:26AM EDT
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Hmmm… While normally a Brand New Member creating a new thread with a post full of URLs would be considered spam, I think the fact that this is for a charitable cause concerning which many members of our community have expressed interest, a reasonable exception can be made. In fact, I’ll make those links live for you:
Petition – Grant Peter Sunde’s plea for pardon
Aftermath of The Pirate Bay Trial: Peter Sunde’s Plea – In His Own Words

Actually, it’s a good conversation-starter, too, as I’d be curious to hear what the community thinks about these things, both general and in the particular case of Peter Sunde.

Jul 15, 2012 at 06:31AM EDT
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Well, I use The Pirate Bay an awful lot. It’s probably the most useful, user friendly torrent site available, and I support it. That’s all I’ll say for now.

Jul 15, 2012 at 09:15AM EDT
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Personally, I don’t support or use the pirate bay. What they are doing is wrong, plain and simple. They are facilitating stealing so millions around the world can just get stuff for free that cost companies millions to make. You can try to justify it by saying that those companies get enough money anyways, but you aren’t hurting the CEOs, youre hurting the little people. Ask derpy Vasquez what he thinks about job cuts in the film industry because of piracy.

Last edited Jul 15, 2012 at 09:34AM EDT
Jul 15, 2012 at 09:32AM EDT
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I use other places, and even then I try to get legal Torrents. So eh…

It’s safe to say that pirating is a problem/activity that will always persist. I remember back when kids were recording copies of tapes and burning CDs. Shit’s always been happening, so I can’t really say that I support or condone it, because I believe it’s an unwavering factoid of life.

Jul 15, 2012 at 11:09AM EDT
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Cale wrote:

I use other places, and even then I try to get legal Torrents. So eh…

It’s safe to say that pirating is a problem/activity that will always persist. I remember back when kids were recording copies of tapes and burning CDs. Shit’s always been happening, so I can’t really say that I support or condone it, because I believe it’s an unwavering factoid of life.

It’s safe to say that drug smuggling is a problem/activity that will always persist. I remember back when guys where bringing boat loads of marijuana through moss landing. Shit’s always been happening, so I can’t really say that I support or condone it, because I believe it’s an unwavering factoid of life.

It’s safe to say that animal abuse is a problem/activity that will always persist. I remember back when horses would die of exhaustion just because the owners treated them as machines. Shit’s always been happening, so I can’t really say that I support or condone it, because I believe it’s an unwavering factoid of life.

It’s safe to say that gang violence is a problem/activity that will always persist. I remember back when a two girls where killed in Fresno just because they got raped by some bulldogs and wanted to snitch. Shit’s always been happening, so I can’t really say that I support or condone it, because I believe it’s an unwavering factoid of life.

It’s safe to say that greedy buisness men and politicians are a problem that will always persist. I remember Enron and hell, just look on the news and I’m sure you’ll find an example. Shit’s always been happening, so I can’t really say that I support or condone it, because I believe it’s an unwavering factoid of life.

Last edited Jul 15, 2012 at 11:38AM EDT
Jul 15, 2012 at 11:33AM EDT
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Yeah, fight the power! ¡Viva la revolución!

Wait, what are we talking about?

Jul 15, 2012 at 11:37AM EDT
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I’m all for the Pirate Bay for several reasons.

  • Yes, I do understand these corporations deserve money, but they sell many products and at ridiculous prices.
  • It isn’t a form of stealing because:
  • A: People had to have the original copy in the first place.
  • B: They are making no profit from each download of this whatsoever so it’s like your friend gets a dog, and later the dog gets preggers, and he gives you a puppy. Then the government busts in yelling at you saying that you stole that puppy from the person that sold the original dog to your friend.
  • C: Some people could have possibly already owned a copy but either switched laptops and lost the disk or they had to restart the computer. Whatever the case, not everyone that uses it is just flat out taking a program they’ve never purchased. Myself, for example, had recently used Pirate Bay to download a copy of Photoshop. Now I already HAD Photoshop on my original laptop but could not find the item used to download it. Does that mean I’m stealing?
  • Pr0nz
  • Pirating shall always be around. Just because you get rid of the well known sites doesn’t mean a new one is not going to rise up.
  • Why are they charging him now? Pirate Bay has been active for many years now, so why would they let his so called crimes rise up? I believe that in itself is a crime that they would sentence him harder, just because they allowed him to continue what he was doing. There would be no possibly way they didn’t already know about the site. The same goes for MegaUpload.
Last edited Jul 15, 2012 at 11:40AM EDT
Jul 15, 2012 at 11:38AM EDT
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Dac wrote:

It’s safe to say that drug smuggling is a problem/activity that will always persist. I remember back when guys where bringing boat loads of marijuana through moss landing. Shit’s always been happening, so I can’t really say that I support or condone it, because I believe it’s an unwavering factoid of life.

It’s safe to say that animal abuse is a problem/activity that will always persist. I remember back when horses would die of exhaustion just because the owners treated them as machines. Shit’s always been happening, so I can’t really say that I support or condone it, because I believe it’s an unwavering factoid of life.

It’s safe to say that gang violence is a problem/activity that will always persist. I remember back when a two girls where killed in Fresno just because they got raped by some bulldogs and wanted to snitch. Shit’s always been happening, so I can’t really say that I support or condone it, because I believe it’s an unwavering factoid of life.

It’s safe to say that greedy buisness men and politicians are a problem that will always persist. I remember Enron and hell, just look on the news and I’m sure you’ll find an example. Shit’s always been happening, so I can’t really say that I support or condone it, because I believe it’s an unwavering factoid of life.

See? This guy understands the world.

Jul 15, 2012 at 11:50AM EDT
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@Kalmo
I have to disagree with most of your points.
While it’s not technically stealing, you have to think about people are taking things for free that people have spent millions of dollars and months, maybe even years, making. Do you think of how much more money group X made if nobody had pirated their movie or game?
I do agree with your point on C, though. In my opinion, that’s alright.

Jul 15, 2012 at 11:57AM EDT
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I’m not going to sign. I don’t condone the activity.
Plus, even if this website disappears, there will be a million other websites made that will act as the “workaround”.

Jul 15, 2012 at 12:20PM EDT
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@Citation: All right. Let’s say it does take millions of dollars to make one program from a company like, oh say, Adobe.

2011 $4.216 billion
2010 $3.800 billion
2009 $2.946 billion
2008 $3.580 billion
2007 $3.158 billion
2006 $2.575 billion
2005 $1.966 billion
2004 $1.667 billion
2003 $1.295 billion
2002 $1.165 billion
2001 $1.230 billion
2000 $1.266 billion

Their revenue has reached above their previous charts, which means that they have actually GAINED money. Therefore pirating has not hurt their company in any way. Adobe is one of the largest companies that is being pirated with all of their programs but they aren’t suffering in the slightest.

I will agree with your argument if you can find one that has legitimately suffered in revenue by a large margin due to pirating.

Jul 15, 2012 at 12:27PM EDT
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@Kalmo
I see your point, but you have to think. How much more money would Adobe have made if nobody had pirated their stuff?
Adobe is a bad example, though. Their shit is ridiculously overpriced and they’re one of the few companies I don’t actually have any problems pirating from (although I don’t think I actually have, they don’t have anything I need that isn’t free).
What about companies like THQ? Check this site if you haven’t. Games like Saints Row: The Third were heavily pirated. Although stupid moves on their part also hurt them (primarily the godawful uDraw thing), piracy has been a heavy factor in their decline.

Jul 15, 2012 at 01:22PM EDT
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Kalmo wrote:

I’m all for the Pirate Bay for several reasons.

  • Yes, I do understand these corporations deserve money, but they sell many products and at ridiculous prices.
  • It isn’t a form of stealing because:
  • A: People had to have the original copy in the first place.
  • B: They are making no profit from each download of this whatsoever so it’s like your friend gets a dog, and later the dog gets preggers, and he gives you a puppy. Then the government busts in yelling at you saying that you stole that puppy from the person that sold the original dog to your friend.
  • C: Some people could have possibly already owned a copy but either switched laptops and lost the disk or they had to restart the computer. Whatever the case, not everyone that uses it is just flat out taking a program they’ve never purchased. Myself, for example, had recently used Pirate Bay to download a copy of Photoshop. Now I already HAD Photoshop on my original laptop but could not find the item used to download it. Does that mean I’m stealing?
  • Pr0nz
  • Pirating shall always be around. Just because you get rid of the well known sites doesn’t mean a new one is not going to rise up.
  • Why are they charging him now? Pirate Bay has been active for many years now, so why would they let his so called crimes rise up? I believe that in itself is a crime that they would sentence him harder, just because they allowed him to continue what he was doing. There would be no possibly way they didn’t already know about the site. The same goes for MegaUpload.

Let’s take a look at these points.

1. Ridiculous prices doesn’t justify stealing. Anyways, it might seem ridiculous to you, but are you taking in to account the cost of production? It really isn’t as insane as you think it is. As Cite said, adobe isn’t the best example.

2. It is a form of stealing. When you buy the product, you are accepting that you can not unlawfully distribute it. If someone bought the product, that doesn’t give them the right to upload it and distribute it. That is damaging to the industry. The comparison with a dog was just stupid. That’s like comparing testicles and diesel generators, it doesn’t make sense.

3. I can see your point, but you need to to think of these products a physical item. If you lost your shoes or grew out of them, the company isn’t obligated to give you a new pair, nor does that give you the right to take it. If not, than these companies can’t make money

4. The thought that piracy is always gonna be around, so why bother trying to stop it is just Defeatist. Crime will never go away, but that doesn’t mean we should allow it.

You can argue all you want, but it is damaging to the industry. Ask derpy Vasquez, he can tell you exactly how it is.

@cite
Well said.

Last edited Jul 15, 2012 at 01:39PM EDT
Jul 15, 2012 at 01:38PM EDT
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I find nothing wrong with The Pirate Bay, so long as you use it correctly. I use it as a resource to test out software and games, and I uninstall the stuff I don’t want, and go buy the stuff I do when I can afford it.

Same philosophy goes with the torrent uploaders. They usually always include some sort of message saying “if you like it, please buy it and support the developers.” Their intention is never to steal other people’s hard work, it’s merely to spread it to a larger audience.

Jul 15, 2012 at 02:09PM EDT
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Twins the Serendipitous Serval wrote:

I find nothing wrong with The Pirate Bay, so long as you use it correctly. I use it as a resource to test out software and games, and I uninstall the stuff I don’t want, and go buy the stuff I do when I can afford it.

Same philosophy goes with the torrent uploaders. They usually always include some sort of message saying “if you like it, please buy it and support the developers.” Their intention is never to steal other people’s hard work, it’s merely to spread it to a larger audience.

But you also need to realize that there will be people who won’t buy it because they already have the full version.

Jul 15, 2012 at 02:16PM EDT
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Twins the Serendipitous Serval wrote:

I find nothing wrong with The Pirate Bay, so long as you use it correctly. I use it as a resource to test out software and games, and I uninstall the stuff I don’t want, and go buy the stuff I do when I can afford it.

Same philosophy goes with the torrent uploaders. They usually always include some sort of message saying “if you like it, please buy it and support the developers.” Their intention is never to steal other people’s hard work, it’s merely to spread it to a larger audience.

That much I can condone. Just earlier this week I torrented The Walking Dead to play for a couple minutes and make sure my computer could run it. I uninstalled it after a couple minutes and bought the game on Steam afterwards.

Jul 15, 2012 at 02:51PM EDT
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Kalmo wrote:

@Citation: All right. Let’s say it does take millions of dollars to make one program from a company like, oh say, Adobe.

2011 $4.216 billion
2010 $3.800 billion
2009 $2.946 billion
2008 $3.580 billion
2007 $3.158 billion
2006 $2.575 billion
2005 $1.966 billion
2004 $1.667 billion
2003 $1.295 billion
2002 $1.165 billion
2001 $1.230 billion
2000 $1.266 billion

Their revenue has reached above their previous charts, which means that they have actually GAINED money. Therefore pirating has not hurt their company in any way. Adobe is one of the largest companies that is being pirated with all of their programs but they aren’t suffering in the slightest.

I will agree with your argument if you can find one that has legitimately suffered in revenue by a large margin due to pirating.

Those numbers could be from anything, though.
They could be from Adobe releasing new, cheaper products, such as Adobe Photoshop Express on iOS, or products people would be more willing to buy.

If you can find the numbers of just regular Photoshop sales, or Creative Suite sales, maybe I will be willing to accept. But until then it just seems like revenue for the whole company.

Jul 15, 2012 at 03:11PM EDT
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Hmm, well this discussion has been relatively civil so far; that’s nice. The only torrent I’ve ever used was the download for Katawa Shoujo, which was free and legal anyway. I do have a lot of mp3s that are probably technically illegal on some level, but I do think of it as similar to the old days of people recording cassettes off of friends’ albums. I think one of the main reasons I think that way was that the cassettes were never illegal (blank cassettes were sold everywhere, and so were radios with dual-cassette capability which obviously existed for that very purpose) and on a business model level, there are still some other similarities akin to what others have said: if I really like somebody’s music, I’ll actually pay money for a CD or high-bitrate mp3 download so I get better quality.

I think a lot of the issue with this is similar to issues in the pharmaceutical industry. Recently, my doctor gave me a prescription for a medicine that turned out to be over $800 dollars! (I ended up not buying it and asking my doctor for an alternate choice.) In a few years, that very same medicine will be selling under a generic name for $10, so people ask, “Why are the pharmaceutical companies gouging us?” Well, it’s because while the medicine only costs about $10 to manufacture, the company had to go years of research, development, clinical testing, and FDA certification, all of which takes a lot of time and money. They only have a few years of selling the medicine at a higher price to recoup their investment before some other company is allowed to make a cheap knock-off that required none of the above steps.

On the other hand, in the entertainment industries, there are some expectations that are only partially realistic, in my opinion. Movies usually take a lot of money to produce, and I understand wanting to recoup that money so everyone in the film industry can go on working. What I don’t understand is the attitude that if a movie only makes a few million dollars over its production costs, it’s considered a failure. I blog, and I consider getting a few hundred hits on my blog a success. I’ve never made a cent off of blogging, and I can hardly imagine coming to the end of a year of blogging and saying, “Well, I only made $10,000 off of my blog this year, guess it’s a big flop.” That attitude means someone has forgotten art for art’s sake; if I were a musician and I made enough money to support my family and live comfortably, I would be more interested in how many people liked my music than how many millions of dollars I could potentially be squeezing out of my fans. Maybe I’m weird that way.

Kalmo wrote:

They are making no profit from each download of this whatsoever so it’s like your friend gets a dog, and later the dog gets preggers, and he gives you a puppy. Then the government busts in yelling at you saying that you stole that puppy from the person that sold the original dog to your friend.

I had to address this, because while your other points are fairly reasonable, I think there is a big error here. The problem is that the products at issue here are not physical objects, but packets of information. When someone sells you a physical object, you can of course do whatever you want with it, but since it’s an object, you can only share what it produces, not the object itself. If you buy a dog, you can give away or even sell its puppies. If you buy an ice cream maker, you can give ice cream to all your friends, or let them borrow the machine to make some themselves. If you buy a car, you can use it to run a taxi service, or strip it down for parts to sell to other people. Now take MS Word as a simple example: You can certainly write a book using the program, and the book is yours, not Microsoft’s. You can let people use your computer and write reports using Word. You can set up a small print shop company which uses one or more licensed copies of the program to format documents. What you may not do is give a copy of the program itself to all your friends.

And the company’s revenue is beside the point. If your next-door neighbor’s dog has a litter of ten puppies, does it make it less of a theft to take one of those puppies without permission than if the litter had been only three puppies? If someone kidnapped a child from Nadya “Octomom” Suleman, would they say, “Well, I’d hardly call it kidnapping. She’s got thirteen more!”

Last edited Jul 15, 2012 at 04:34PM EDT
Jul 15, 2012 at 04:28PM EDT
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Dac wrote:

Personally, I don’t support or use the pirate bay. What they are doing is wrong, plain and simple. They are facilitating stealing so millions around the world can just get stuff for free that cost companies millions to make. You can try to justify it by saying that those companies get enough money anyways, but you aren’t hurting the CEOs, youre hurting the little people. Ask derpy Vasquez what he thinks about job cuts in the film industry because of piracy.

No. I will not justify about the money that is loss. I will talk about how the copyrights for things are too long in some places. The copy right law protects the artwork for at least 100 years. An entire century. The artist/developer/whatever would be long gone.

Copyright Laws were made to give the creator a good amount of money for a relatively short period of time in which they can live of that profit WHILE they make their next work.

So. Yeah. They are obstruction free information.

Jul 16, 2012 at 09:45PM EDT
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A good explanation of the history of copyright laws:

Jul 16, 2012 at 10:22PM EDT
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Fridge wrote:

Well, I use The Pirate Bay an awful lot. It’s probably the most useful, user friendly torrent site available, and I support it. That’s all I’ll say for now.

This.

Jul 17, 2012 at 07:23AM EDT

If downloading movies and music hurts the Entertainment industry

why not download cp? don’t we all want to hurt the cp industry?

Last edited Jul 26, 2012 at 12:49PM EDT
Jul 26, 2012 at 12:28PM EDT
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“Look at all these companies and artists that have their content pirated. Are they fucking poor?” --Dutvutan on Piracy
The main reason I see people pirate things is because of how freaking overpriced they are. Chances are, if you’re some huge-ass company and your software is getting pirated, that should tell you that your products are way too expensive. That with everything Kalmo pointed out being said: Checkmate, Scrooges.

Jul 26, 2012 at 06:20PM EDT
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@Kim Jong:

@Starrfish:
Maybe, but there’s also a built in vicious circle at play here:

Gamers’ logic: Games too expensive? Pirate them!
Developers’ logic: Losing money to piracy? Crank up the price to make up the difference!

Casually, it appears that either nobody has the high ground here, or that the software companies are the bad ones because they have more money and can absorb the losses better. Consider this, however: Which of the two parties here is doing something that is actually illegal? Which of the two parties is trying to make an honest living off of their own labors?

As someone who believes ideally in communism, I think there is an ideological niche for the idea of all people being entitled to the labors of all other people equally, but I don’t think there are too many people that really want to give up capitalism when it comes down to it. Mainly because it would imply that you have to sacrifice all of your things to the greater good of society (Face it, if your family owns a home, a computer, and/or a car, you’re rich by the world’s standards, so that means poor people should be allowed to steal your game console, especially if you have more than one and they have none.) but more subtly because in such an economy, it’s not likely that anybody would be making games at the quality level that we enjoy today.

Jul 26, 2012 at 07:38PM EDT
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Skeletor-sm

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