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why is sexuality always considered 'dirty' 'disgusting' 'corrupt'?

Last posted Jul 29, 2012 at 06:02PM EDT. Added Jul 28, 2012 at 06:20PM EDT
25 conversations with 20 participants

Anything sexual in general western scociety is always considered dirty and corrput. something that must remain hidden and discussed in hush-hush.

Now being cosidered a ‘bad girl/boy’, ‘dirty’ and ‘nughty’ is considered sexaul for the above resons.

Innocent characters that were sexualized like R34 is considered ‘ruining the innosence’ and ‘corrupting the ’character’

Why is that? (i have my own personal reasons)
I thought modern, generally atheist scociet realized a long time
ago that sexaulity is something natural and ok. that no one should be ashamed of it and all that,

But despite all it’s still all remains a very serious taboo.

I belive it’s the education’s fault: kids are never exposed to this, adults tell kids to avoid the stuff like fire, cartoons have no hint of it whatsoever. so when they find out (usually on their own thanks to the internet) first they are first seriously shocked. and then go wild about it all while keeping it a dreadful secret that no one must find out.

So why doesn’t education change? why wait for the kids to be shocked like that and not properly explain them right away?
the immidiate answer can be ‘if little kiddies will find out too soon, they will go wild about it and will have illigal childeren at the age of 12’

I don’t belive so. All that needs to be done is to properly explain why they shouldn’t do it untill they reach at a certin age, and why they should avoid doing the action itself.

no one is scared about telling kids about drugs and alchohol, so why not this as well?
It could save the kids a lot of shock and tension and simple and natural things like masturbation, intercourse will be treated as such and not like some scary disgusting rituals that must be hidden at all cost.

Jul 28, 2012 at 06:20PM EDT
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It’s not because it’s bad, it’s because it’s what we were learned when we were young. Parents like to avoid their kids to come in contact with pornographic material, as that’s what they were learned when they were young themselves. Same with the media, all the porno is either completely hidden on channels you’ll never watch, or doesn’t start until it’s long past kids bedtime. Movies and games that contains sexual material are also rated for an older audience. Porn sites commonly contain huge warnings or ask of you to confirm you have the legal age to view it. Plus Google doesn’t show those sites unless you directly search for them.

If we’d let our kids come into contact with pornography from ago 0, it’d become completely normal. Everyone who would then say to us it’s dirty would get a weird look, as we don’t know any better, we’ve watched it since we were super young. As soon as a generation arives that sees porn as the most normal subject on earth, and doesn’t mind showing it to others or their kids, every generation after that would see porn as completely normal.

I also have to point out a bit of irony here. Because as soon as the MLP gallery receives some more “questionable” content, you’re often the first person to complain. This isn’t MLP related, just you related.

Last edited Jul 28, 2012 at 06:33PM EDT
Jul 28, 2012 at 06:28PM EDT
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The Rustler wrote:

It’s Christianity’s fault.

You’re very brave to say that on the internet without a flamesuit.

Jul 28, 2012 at 06:29PM EDT
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Jolly Jew wrote:

Anything sexual in general western scociety is always considered dirty and corrput. something that must remain hidden and discussed in hush-hush.

Now being cosidered a ‘bad girl/boy’, ‘dirty’ and ‘nughty’ is considered sexaul for the above resons.

Innocent characters that were sexualized like R34 is considered ‘ruining the innosence’ and ‘corrupting the ’character’

Why is that? (i have my own personal reasons)
I thought modern, generally atheist scociet realized a long time
ago that sexaulity is something natural and ok. that no one should be ashamed of it and all that,

But despite all it’s still all remains a very serious taboo.

I belive it’s the education’s fault: kids are never exposed to this, adults tell kids to avoid the stuff like fire, cartoons have no hint of it whatsoever. so when they find out (usually on their own thanks to the internet) first they are first seriously shocked. and then go wild about it all while keeping it a dreadful secret that no one must find out.

So why doesn’t education change? why wait for the kids to be shocked like that and not properly explain them right away?
the immidiate answer can be ‘if little kiddies will find out too soon, they will go wild about it and will have illigal childeren at the age of 12’

I don’t belive so. All that needs to be done is to properly explain why they shouldn’t do it untill they reach at a certin age, and why they should avoid doing the action itself.

no one is scared about telling kids about drugs and alchohol, so why not this as well?
It could save the kids a lot of shock and tension and simple and natural things like masturbation, intercourse will be treated as such and not like some scary disgusting rituals that must be hidden at all cost.

“Cartoons have no hint of it whatsoever”

Jul 28, 2012 at 06:41PM EDT
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Q. M. wrote:

You’re very brave to say that on the internet without a flamesuit.

Agreed, but I think Coolface has a point. Flame me.

Jul 28, 2012 at 06:42PM EDT

American Tanker, Hell on Tracks wrote:

Agreed, but I think Coolface has a point. Flame me.

Asking for it in a double reverse-psychological trick won’t change anything.

Either way, they point is valid. Suppression of Sexuality in both Religious and Official institutions over a long period of time has set the standard.

Jul 28, 2012 at 06:53PM EDT
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It really is Christianity’s fault.

Or, more specifically, the Puritan Christians have had a huge effect on how we treat sexuality.

A little known fact is that the reason the Puritans came to the US from Europe was that they were TOO conservative for the Christians there and wanted their own place to be super-strict.

Jul 28, 2012 at 06:59PM EDT

ivanp wrote:

Its like a blast from the past! From the same OP!

‘Why sexual is considered corrupt’ by Jolly Jew

Jolly Jew can’t help it, he’s just obsessed with sex!

He wants to get it in in missionary style with a nice Jewish lady who probably owns a bank or something for the purpose of procreation.

Is that too much for him to ask?

Jul 28, 2012 at 07:06PM EDT

Christianity influenced society’s point of view on sexuality. But I can assure you, not all christians think sex is dirty. My Biblical Studies teacher, for example, is very open minded, nice, AND has kickass Star Wars ties. He told us that God intended sex to be a beautiful thing, but society has twisted it so that it is disgusting.

Jul 28, 2012 at 07:15PM EDT
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>Jolly Jew being serious
>What

But seriously, he’s right. But I don’t think we should blame the religions, it’s just the way our stupid human minds warp the reality that we need to face: sex is a thing.

Jul 28, 2012 at 08:21PM EDT
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Yes, Christian values do have a lot to do with previously established norms. Since most of us have sexual urges though, Americans have a love/hate relationship with it as opposed to a healthy respect of it. It is up to parents and other family members now to teach their kids about responsible and healthy attitudes towards sex though. Let’s not blame schools that don’t teach kids sex ed when parents have all of the resources to do it themselves now.
 
Also, let’s not pretend that sex isn’t one of the best ways to transmit diseases, and it’s the only way to get someone pregnant on accident. Other countries, like with alcohol, have been more liberal about such matters for a while, so they don’t have the problems that the US does. But the US can’t just switch how much of a taboo sex is. You’d have a bit of an uptick in sexual activity without the healthy culture supporting it. You’d have worse teen pregnancy rates and STI rates in teens than you do now.

Unlike with alcohol where the drawback is often just a really bad hangover (and in worse cases, people try to drive or get alcohol poisoning,) sexual activity (in America’s context) causes a bunch of emotional troubles for people, has the whole STI (I say STI/sexually transmitted infection instead of STD/sexually transmitted disease, but it’s about the same thing), and there’s always pregnancy.

The switch has to be cultural, and it’s going to take a while. I think it is happening slowly, but given the current state of our love/hate relationship with sexuality, it has to be slow. It’s something you’ll just have to educate your friends and family about yourself and let them know that certain aspects of culture won’t support more liberal takes on sex.

Jul 28, 2012 at 09:00PM EDT
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Dangit, I should have scanned the thread before I went searching for that link; it looks like Ivan beat me to it by an hour.

Yeah, this is very similar to questions that J.J. has asked here in the past, but I suppose there are a few things that come up here that aren’t exactly covered by the previous discussion. While I think we covered the ideas of ruined childhood/rule 34 pretty well before, the issue of society’s ideas about sexuality and kids’ exposure to it are very strange.

In particular, our society seems to want to shelter children from any sexuality until they’re 18 (which will invariably fail, sometimes with dire consequences) but has much less of a problem with violence. I think this is skewed; not that we shouldn’t have a problem with exposing kids to sex at too early of an age, but that (1) we have such a hard time figuring out what is age-appropriate sex education, (2) we reasonably expect our children to eventually experience sex on a first-hand basis (no fap jokes, please) and thus it is arguable that sexual information is something they need to know, and (3) being okay with violence makes very little sense when really, violence is not appropriate for any age.

Addressing these in turn from personal experience, my twin daughters, who have just turned nine, were recently begging me to have a tickle fight with them. For some reason they love that sort of thing, so I relented. However, one of my daughters made a few attempts to tickle me in an inappropriate area, and I had to stop the playing. They’re nine, so what do I say? What I chose to say was, “Sweetie, you need to understand something: it is not appropriate to tickle somebody on part of their body that’s covered up by underwear. Anywhere else is okay, but that part of a person’s body is only for them to touch. Nobody should touch me there, and nobody should touch you there, and if someone tries to, you should tell a grownup, and they will get in trouble.” At age nine, my daughters are too young to be sexual in any overt manner, but even still, that was a piece of knowledge that probably most children need at a very early age. Later I will tell them more, and so will their mother, but it’s my belief that children who have a loving and trusting relationship with their parents will always give signals to their parents when they need to know more.

The second point is where I think religion tends to come into the picture in the most obvious fashion. If a child is raised in a religious sect that looks at sex as dirty, then their parents will probably never talk to them about it, and they will go into marriage uninformed, confused, and probably even scared. While I know that such sects are often somewhere in the Christian continuum, the fact is that there are a lot of churches that have a more realistic and positive view of the matter. Did you know that even among the Puritans, there are records of men being disciplined by the church for not performing their “duties” to their wives? It’s Biblical, as said most explicitly in 1Cor.7:

Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

In plain modern English, if you’re the sort of person who somehow never experiences lust, then you might as well stay single, because you’ll be free of the responsibility of a family, and can better serve your community (that last part from larger context than this short excerpt). If you do find yourself tempted with lust, then the best thing to do is find a spouse, have sex often, and if at all possible, never deny your spouse sexual pleasure. (See P.S.) This being Biblical, and really quite rational, I have actually prayed, even when my daughters were much younger, that they would grow up happy and healthy and someday find a good man that they could marry and have a good sex life with. Sex is one of God’s greatest gifts to humanity, I hate to see people get cheated from enjoying it to the fullest.

The third point is largely self-evident; at least I hope so. Generally, I frown on the idea of violence being used for entertainment, at least in a completely gratuitous manner. Specifically, I don’t like movies in which the main character enjoys violence for violence’s sake. If he/she is committing violent acts with a higher purpose in mind, I can deal with it better. However there is something to be said about letting people be educated to some extent in the nature of violence because it is, like it or not, part of our reality. I suppose we all know that there were a lot of people at the Dark Knight Rising premier who learned that in a way that nobody wants to.

P.S. Several years ago, the pastor of my church gave a sermon on that very passage and he asked the congregation a question. “If a husband wants to have sex three times a week, and the wife wants to have sex once a week, how many times per week should they be having sex? I hope you see clearly that the answer is not one, but don’t think you average it out to two either. Most people,after reading this passage think the answer is three, but I’m going to tell you that the answer is four: once for the wife, and three times for the husband, unless you’re some sort of miraculous couple that is in the mood at the same exact time.”

Last edited Jul 28, 2012 at 09:10PM EDT
Jul 28, 2012 at 09:08PM EDT
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One word answer? Religion. Not all religions mind you, mainly the Abrahamic ones. A lot of their lore is rooted in “Mankind is inherently evil/Sinners” mentality, and anything perceived as “deviant” or “animal” is automatically shunned, ridiculed, and pushed to the fringe of society. At least with the more conservative branches, anyway.

Jul 28, 2012 at 10:17PM EDT
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I’m sorry, but did we not have this exact thread several months ago?

Either I’m having a serious case of déjà vu, or Jolly needs to find new topics.

Jul 28, 2012 at 10:39PM EDT
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Fridge Logic wrote:

I’m sorry, but did we not have this exact thread several months ago?

Either I’m having a serious case of déjà vu, or Jolly needs to find new topics.

that other thread mostly was discussing rule 34 and why most poeple (including me) hate it. so here i rephraced my question to something more general

Jul 29, 2012 at 09:05AM EDT
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Well, Jolly Jew, its not so much as sexuality itself being corrupt, because to be honest, it isn’t.

What is seen as corrupt, however, is how abused it seems to be (or at least more noticeable) in the modern era. Instead of wanting to form relationships and possibly have sexual intercourse in the future once a couple’s found they love each other, its more of now people simply looking to ‘score’ and feed a sexual appetite without loving or caring for their partners.

With an industry based on artificial contraception, pornography, and encouraging simply sex, its seen as a corruption of what sexuality is supposed to be in many people’s eyes. Instead of encouraging love and child bringing, they’re encouraging simply sex for pleasure.

Possibly an effect as well is the failure rate for marriages. 50% in the United States. Sometimes, this is couples wanting more sexual pleasure and find they are no longer attracted to their partner, so they just leave and find more partners that they can get sexually attracted to.

So is sexuality wrong?

Absolutely not. Its a binding thing in a relationship. A very powerful thing.

But is the abuse of it wrong, and if its done for the wrong reasons?

In my opinion, yes. One should not simply go out and seek sexual pleasure. However, this is my opinion, and I realize its not shared by many others.

Jul 29, 2012 at 11:34AM EDT
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@JJ

that other thread mostly was discussing rule 34

The discussion in your last thread changed toward the end. It started off being about R34 but ended up being about this exact same topic: sexuality in general

The responses everyone gave you in the last thread are still relevant to this one. This thread is essentially continuing where the last one left off so to answer your OP I’m just going to point to my last answers in the other thread…for now

My response to you in the last thread summarized:

-Nothing is wrong with sexuality
-But if people do not learn to control it, there are risks of harm. Big example: Rape and harassment
-Suppression of sexuality in society is treated as a way of reducing those risks

There more to it than that, but that’s the basics from the way I see it


most poeple (including me) hate it.

I have to say you are a confusing induvidual JJ.

You say you have a borderline stance on R34 and that you hate it. But I can only guess that what you mean by that is that you hate how Bronies fall under scrutiny for it but not the content itself

If you hated sexuality and sexual content then you would have no reason to discuss why people hate it in two different threads. Your reasons for hating it would be the exact same reasons why it’s a cultural taboo so you would not need to ask (You probably also would not have gotten a warning from the community for posting too much sexual ponies. I still remember that)

Instead it sounds to me like you have a lot of trouble identifying what “sexual” is, what it is not and the implications it has. You also seem to struggle with recognizing cultural taboos. Am I right?

Last edited Jul 29, 2012 at 12:26PM EDT
Jul 29, 2012 at 12:11PM EDT
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Let’s look at it this way: sex and violence (two of my favorite things). Would you rather your kids walk in on two people screwing or two people murdering each other? I don’t think we should expose our kids to sex from the first day of birth, but rather talk to them around their early teen years when they start to get those urges, you know, kinda like you’re supposed to? I have a “friend” who I now think never had “the talk”, and he hits on every girl at our school, including and especially my girlfriend. He also is one of those hardcore Roman Catholics who hardly shuts up about his religion, or really anything for that matter. But I’m using him as an example because he was raised in a heavy-duty Catholic household, so he’s unsure of what to do about his sexual urges. So in a way, it does boil down to religion, but you do kinda have to blame parents as well.

Jul 29, 2012 at 01:51PM EDT
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@Dr Richard

You speak of the Catholics as if a menace

Listen, the Church has a very strong standing on sexuality. But that doesn’t mean we condemn everything to hell.

In fact, the Church is actually very pro-sexual, but only between a loving couple. Its something not to be cherished, not abused.

However, the fact is that (as mentioned in my earlier post) people now are less interested in forming relationships and are instead willing just to have sex and make that the base of any relationship. Or even just lay with someone and move on. Entire industries are based on that.

Now, in modern times, having a child is considered a bad thing for some reason. Why should it be a bad thing? If you don’t want children, don’t do it. Simple. So a child is a blessing for the couple that bore it.

But apparently its not that simple. People want to have sex outside of a loving relationship. So they had to invent contraceptives and ways to kill children in the womb in case anything can or happens. That’s why the Church seems strong about it; its unholy to do things like that.

Sexuality is not evil, but the way it is abused is near intolerable to some.

hat’s my standpoint on the matter. Sexuality is not evil, but is one of those things that can (and is) abused in modern society.

Last edited Jul 29, 2012 at 02:08PM EDT
Jul 29, 2012 at 02:04PM EDT
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I’m not sure, but I don’t think Dr. Richard was saying he blames Catholics so much as he blames attitudes created in society, usually by religious institutions, that make parents unsure how to deal with their children’s sexuality other than just to say “DON’T!” While I wasn’t raised Catholic, I do know a bit about the Catholic position on sex, and I do know that for most teenagers, simply giving them a command without a reason why it’s important will fail to inspire them to follow their parents’ leadership.

In the particular case of Catholic teens, I’ve known a few guys who screwed a lot of girls, but felt more guilty if they used birth control, which is (in my opinion) a serious misunderstanding of sexual morality. Attitudes like that aren’t only found in Catholics, but it’s a simple example that I’m guessing Dr. Richard was driving at in some way.

Jul 29, 2012 at 04:31PM EDT
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@Dr. Coolface’s opinion on Christianity:

You got upvoted instead of downvoted…


The west has just been trained to think that way. It is the way we function, I guess.

Last edited Jul 29, 2012 at 05:12PM EDT
Jul 29, 2012 at 05:11PM EDT
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@Owens:

Well, I don’t know about other Christians on this site, but as you may have gathered from my posts, I think he’s right. While I’m not the sort of person to say that only religious people have morals, I am willing to venture that the lion’s share of society’s sexual mores comes from religious influences (and “mainly the Abrahamic ones” as Pseudogenesis stated).

The implications of this are that open-minded Christians who see the big picture won’t disagree with his statement, while Christians of a more prudish mindset will probably actually be proud of the fact that they’ve made society think sex is dirty, because it obviously is, right?

The phrase “It’s Christianity’s fault” is likely to raise ire in many contexts, but I think this is a case where there is a very narrow portion of the population would take issue with it, other than perhaps to say it’s an oversimplification.

Jul 29, 2012 at 05:39PM EDT
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