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What bothers you the most about know your meme

Last posted Oct 27, 2012 at 05:27PM EDT. Added Sep 29, 2012 at 03:30PM EDT
214 posts from 69 users

@Verbose
I don’t like it, but I’m also not sure it’s fair in principle.
I’m not a fan of rules that block off a type of thread that is not offensive, flame-worthy, or subject to derailment – but because there will be too many of them.

I know that in Tomberry’s case, he can’t expect the users to post anything particularly constructive about his blog. Actually on KYM in general, I don’t expect much. But like, on other forums, I’ve seen people who have posted something like, “I’ve made a movie,” and that is a way of self-promoting too, but they do it because they like the people on that forum, and they want their input. But maybe that example isn’t fair because those forums are usually few users; it just bothers me in principle knowing that things that can be interesting in self promotion can’t happen.

If I managed my own website, I’d consider making a forum section called “Original Works” or the like.

But ¯\(-_o)/¯
sometimes principles < practicality, and sometimes principles are based on what I prefer, and aren’t actually principles.

Also, you’re right about tumblr. That’s a fine line because some people just use it as a user account to chill, and others could (potentially) use it as a real blog. That is problematic.

Last edited Sep 30, 2012 at 04:53PM EDT
Sep 30, 2012 at 04:48PM EDT
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First: Holy shit it’s OGW.

Second: I have noticed a double standard on thread locking; a sort of favoritism, if you would. It’s been something that’s kind of bothered me, to be honest: Why can an old member post something self-advertising like that and have their thread up for hours when a newer member would get a “no self-advertisement, pls” from a mod within minutes and be immediately locked? I also remember the times like OGW was talking about, when a thread like that would get downvoted, possibly locked, but it didn’t matter who it was who opened it. Even if it was JDubs, we’d still at least scold him for it.

I also agree on the subject of downvoting. Unless there is actual hostility, off-topic posts, or breaking of other site & forum rules, you really shouldn’t be downvoting. Example: in the mfw thread, Wsxdas posted a tfw, so I jokingly make a post about tfw in an mfw thread and post the get out frog. Someone downvoted it. Why? It was obviously a joke, everyone else seemed to get it. All I’m saying is that nega-karma is abused in General and JFF to be a “I didn’t really like that post” button instead of a “This post is offensive, off-topic, or rude” button.

Which brings me to why it’s stupid we downvote some people on principle (e.g. Adam). Sure, he can be annoying, but that doesn’t mean that you need to automatically downvote every one of his posts. There are some people (won’t name them, but you know who they are) who are being offensive or hostile in every other post (especially certain vocal brony haters), and those are the posts that deserve it. Not every single one, just the ones that say something like “I hope fans of X would go die in a fire.” Because that’s offensive and definitely breaks rule 7.

That said, this is definitely the most civil and mature community I’ve found on the internet. This seems like a lot of complaints, but it’s nothing next to some other sites. And I love you for that.

Last edited Sep 30, 2012 at 05:34PM EDT
Sep 30, 2012 at 05:06PM EDT
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What the hell?
Really, what the hell?

Sep 30, 2012 at 05:17PM EDT
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Ogreenworld wrote:

Oh, and moderators who have shown to be responsible, who double check their work (back then, sometimes more than the admins), and who have a good sense of what is an acceptable entry- don’t have the ability to confirm without other moderators’ approval (I think recently it was changed to not being able to confirm, period). Seriously, why? It’s not like we control the front page.

I am having a hard time reading if you checked the mod mail before this. Regardless of whether or not you did, check it and reply. If it was the case that mods could confirm in the past, it is a strong point on allowing it again in the present.

Nonetheless, I’ll stick to what I said in the chain, there still need to be some rules in place before a mod can confirm entries. Quality control and such to avoid having bad quality confirmed. I rather not have entries confirmed on the opinion of just one mod. As regardless of how much we trust each other, our opinions on what makes a meme confirm worthy can still clash.

Nonetheless, some a lot of entries deserve more than the submission purgatory they’re in now.


Verbose wrote:

The reason I don’t like it, is because it leaves a door wide open for floods. If Tomberry can, then any should be able to. I don’t like the precedent it sets.

That was a rather big reason for me to lock threads in the past. Bandwagoning is always something to look out for on threads and forums. I rather lock something preemptive before things get out of hand, which has happened multiple times in the past.


Quantum Meme wrote:

Well, I wasn’t expecting Ogreenworld to pop out of nowhere like that…

Twilitlord wrote:

First: Holy shit it’s OGW.

These comments are somewhat examples of the privileges older members magically have. When old members who were inactive for a long time make a thread, there are always comments reading “Holy sh*t, it’s you!” or the likes. Regardless of the quality of the thread they made, some people suddenly see them as good quality for the sole reason of the OP being someone they know from the past.

No offense to OGW here, I was just pointing out these type of comments in old member threads.


Tomberry wrote:

What the hell?
Really, what the hell?

Getting angry won’t help the cause, please explain yourself.

Last edited Sep 30, 2012 at 05:59PM EDT
Sep 30, 2012 at 05:22PM EDT
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I find that there is a lot of hostility on the KYM forums. We should all just be friends, and expel people who are assholes to other users.

Sep 30, 2012 at 05:25PM EDT

You can’t tell via writing between anger and amazement.
I have nothing to “explain” and I shouldn’t. I don’t even understand why there is such a fuzz about it.
If you want to lock my thread, then go for it.

Sep 30, 2012 at 05:29PM EDT
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Nonetheless, I’ll stick to what I said in the chain, there still need to be some rules in place before a mod can confirm entries. Quality control and such to avoid having bad quality confirmed. I rather not have entries confirmed on the opinion of just one mod. As regardless of how much we trust each other, our opinions on what makes a meme confirm worthy can still clash.

Actually, yea, that’s completely fair.
It’s not like I’m against quality control and double checking by other moderators, I just had trouble finding other moderators who could double check my work. For example, I don’t know many other mods who could read Chinese. So that might have been a unique problem :P

Also, regarding mod e-mail, I’ve unsubscribed >.>

Sep 30, 2012 at 05:31PM EDT
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Tomberry wrote:

You can’t tell via writing between anger and amazement.
I have nothing to “explain” and I shouldn’t. I don’t even understand why there is such a fuzz about it.
If you want to lock my thread, then go for it.

The “fuzz” as you desribe it is the common cause that for some reason threads made by users of a “higher authority” tend to be allowed when we would instantly lock them if this wasn’t the case.

Your thread just served as a good and very recent example. It wasn’t anything against you as a person. My apologies if my posts sounded like that.


Ogreenworld wrote:

It’s not like I’m against quality control and double checking by other moderators, I just had trouble finding other moderators who could double check my work. For example, I don’t know many other mods who could read Chinese. So that might have been a unique problem :P

Ever since you “stopped” being a mod, we had a lot of new and active mods. So no worries, it will most likely be a lot easier to find a mod for a second opinion nowadays than it was in the past.

Last edited Sep 30, 2012 at 05:40PM EDT
Sep 30, 2012 at 05:32PM EDT
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I am usually very passive and things don’t usually bother me for more than a day at most.

The only thing I can say that I have been regularly upset with is the IRC, mainly because a lot more can be gotten away with there and therefore the more hateful/stupid people hang out in it and it is not as enjoyable for somebody like me.

There are other reasons too, but I don’t feel like listing them right now.

Sep 30, 2012 at 07:01PM EDT
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The only thing I can say that I have been regularly upset with is the IRC, mainly because a lot more can be gotten away with there and therefore the more hateful/stupid people hang out in it and it is not as enjoyable for somebody like me.

I’ll agree with that. There are users who are unique to the IRC that really don’t make it all that appealing to me (I just don’t enjoy hearing insults from brash and inconsiderate people in my free time. I’d rather be nice.) I can interact with other users who in the forums and on walls. Heck, I can chat with most of them outside of KYM.

I think it’s the nature of the IRC, in part. It’s a chat. You can just type what you think there, and you don’t have to worry about being on-topic. You don’t have to worry about having your thread locked or your comment deleted. You can get kicked or even banned, but on the whole, you really have to try to get to the point of ban.
 
The rules listed there are also less meaningful, because they are even more vague than what is present in the forum.
 
I once suggested that the “No porn” rule either be enforced or changed (because people post porn there all of the time, albeit with warnings) but no one cared. I’m sure that apathetic attitude could run some people off.

But that isn’t to say that no one there cares at all. I went there with another complaint, and other mods helped me out with that. However, I don’t think anyone would say that the IRC is the same as the forums. It’s an entirely different culture of KYM.
 
Perhaps that’s just a difference. I would suggest using OMGKYM more. I go in there and make random comments to whomever happens to be in there, and sometimes a conversation can be struck. And then one channel can be a bit less…douchy…and the other can be as is.

Sep 30, 2012 at 07:17PM EDT

Verbose wrote:

I once suggested that the “No porn” rule either be enforced or changed (because people post porn there all of the time, albeit with warnings) but no one cared. I’m sure that apathetic attitude could run some people off.

Besides Chris and Daniel, and Lich at times, there isn’t much porn posted there. I’m sure if we ask the small amount of people that see posting porn as a must, we won’t lose much activity.

I at least won’t see it as a considerable loss. We really need to do some more moderating in there at times, because racial slurs, porn, and insults happen just way too often.

Last edited Sep 30, 2012 at 07:29PM EDT
Sep 30, 2012 at 07:28PM EDT
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Yes, I should reconsider that statement. I’m not in there all that much, so I can’t say “porn all of the time” with much confidence. I apologize to the people who frequent the IRC.

And I see myself as an outsider, so I don’t really do much in terms of moderating. That’s probably me lacking in taking personal initiative.

Sep 30, 2012 at 08:09PM EDT

@Zarathh

The main thing that bothers me about this site are the people who comment on an article that is already deadpooled, but they still say “+1 Deadpool” anyways. Another thing that annoys me is if they comment on an entry and ask “Why is this trending?” And then it trends longer than necessary.

People who do that make. My. Blood. Boil!

Questioning why an article is trending is not clever and witty. It’s counter-intuitive and derails the topic. People obviously don’t understand how the trending bar works. Commenting on an article trends it, because it is expected that your comments are constructively contributing to new information for the article and getting shit done instead of just showing your goddam reaction face! It’s equally as much spam as ‘+1 Deadpool’ as you pointed out above

Furthermore it aids and encourages trolls who bump topics like “Dragons X Cars” just to watch people utter that exact line

However these things aren’t problems with KYM. They are problems with ill-informed users and that’s unfortunately not something KYM can do about.

The best we can do for now is answer their question: “Because you commented on this”


@TehRussBuss

The confirmation of articles that don’t deserve it and the fact that there are still ancient articles on submission that deserve confirmation, and the advice animal circle jerk that seems to be going on as of late. For example:

Forever resentful mother: confirmed
Spongebob Squarepants: submission

I agree, some articles deserve to be revisited, particularly Spongebob. With all the image macro’s that Spongebob started and spread, I think it’s just as much worthy of confirmation as “Wingboners” which has by far much less spread (Yea, I saw that comment you made in the Spongebob entry that trolled Flare Dancer, don’t mind him, he’s just a little too defensive)


@Cite

There’s a lot of complaining in this thread, which is kind of the point.
Why don’t we try and actually do something about this stuff? Email admins, try to get stuff done? That sort of thing.

Yes, while we all discussing these problems, why don’t we also consider solutions to them? We can complain all day and point out the problems but nothing will happen until we decide what the solutions are.

In the case of older entries that deserved to be revisited, we can try showcasing them on the front page to foster more interest and research into them.

And will someone in the Furry community please for the love of Duke Nukem finish the Furry article? That “rewrite in progress” things has been there how long?

Last edited Sep 30, 2012 at 09:15PM EDT
Sep 30, 2012 at 09:11PM EDT
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angstyHoodie OPERATOR wrote:

Users the have autoplay songs on their profile.

I’m adding profile themes to this.

They don’t make your profile cool, only annoying.

Sep 30, 2012 at 09:12PM EDT
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What bothers me the most about KYM is that it’s inconsistent in its mission goal. Verbose and other mods have posted a couple times that KYM is there to document web culture, almost in the vein of a scientific study, and sometimes they’ll bring that out as justification for doing this or that. Let’s face it people, De Facto , KYM is just another hub of silly internet humor, not an objective study on the matter. Using the fact that KYM is supposed to be a site mainly for documenting web culture as justification for certain policies would be like deciding to enforce English law in the United States because it’s supposed to be a British colony.

If you’re going to do something in the interest of transforming KYM into an objective , intellectual site for studying web culture, then there are a whole bunch of changes that need to be made that haven’t been. They could start by banning all the users who don’t have any idea what the fuck they’re talking about.

This user has been banned.

Last edited Sep 30, 2012 at 09:46PM EDT
Sep 30, 2012 at 09:42PM EDT
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@Fifths

Why can’t it be both?

The images can be there for documentation and for lulz.
Entries are generally objective, but they’re about silly matters usually.
Forums tend to be lulzy and often not even meme oriented unless it’s in the Meme Research board.
There’s a friendly relationship among admins, mods, and users of cooperation, joking, and working.

We could be all hard and all that, and we may be sacrificing the raw path to objectivity in reporting by being lulzy, but we wouldn’t enjoy that as much. And if volunteering moderators and users weren’t enjoying the site, then we’d be somewhere else. It’s crucial that we be somewhat lulzy and lax.

Also, it’s really hard practically to discuss entries about lolcats, trolling, and Psy while being serious.
 
Also also, that’s not a very good analogy. A whole war was established to gain independence for the US. No such war has been fought here. Our mission stays the same. We don’t have to be hard and threaten everyone for not strictly following protocol.
 
As for banning people, it’s not something we enjoy doing, and we’ll exhaust a whole lot of other choices before we do ban. We like to keep users here and get them in the know of what we do. We send a lot of Private Messages out each day and we talk a lot amongst ourselves. The admins are busy and can’t implement our suggestions very easily, and sometimes they don’t think it’s necessary.


But to your point, change comes slowly, especially when you have to work through multiple avenues. And I’d be more willing to hear from most users if they used the suggestions thread more often.

However, some come directly to moderators (and they have recently,) and I appreciate that.

Sep 30, 2012 at 11:02PM EDT

Ann Hiro wrote:

I don’t like how karma is used differently than it’s original purpose.

I will also say this.
I believe many users don’t even know why they implemented the karma system in the first place.

Sep 30, 2012 at 11:49PM EDT
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Verbose wrote:

But that isn’t to say that no one there cares at all. I went there with another complaint, and other mods helped me out with that. However, I don’t think anyone would say that the IRC is the same as the forums. It’s an entirely different culture of KYM.

Not directly related to the IRC (as I am a regular there), but my biggest problem with KYM is the division among its users. As Verbose said, there are entirely different cultures within different parts of the site. Pony General would definitely be one of these cultures. Some users only post there and never think about posting anywhere outside of it, unless it’s pony related. I’m sure a lot of people want to see users not stay exclusive to one area of the site. Then there’s the streaming threads, the people who stay exclusive to comments/entries, and lurkers. If there was a way to unite all of the cultures and get us all to communicate better, that would make me very happy.

Oct 01, 2012 at 12:15AM EDT
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Ann Hiro wrote:

I will also say this.
I believe many users don’t even know why they implemented the karma system in the first place.

Honestly, I feel like every time I’ve been downvoted is because I made a vague joke that someone might view as insensitive or just getting negative karma because I posted a pony reaction image outside Pony General. I don’t have a problem with any of that, and I may have made some comments that warranted downvotes. But I don’t think that once have I ever decided to not post something that I felt legitimately contributed to the conversation because I was fearful of those minus signs, and I know for a fact that is the case for pretty much everyone else. Negative karma doesn’t really solve anything – people will generally post regardless because they think they have something relevant to add to the conversation or they’ll post garbage because they don’t care. The downvotes should be restricted to offensive or wildly off-topic posts, not simply ones you disagree with or that told a bad joke.

Which, if negative karma solves nothing, then positive karma accomplishes nothing. Maybe just stop keeping track of karma outside each individual post, which would enable negative karma to be given much more “generously” and more on an opinionated basis. If something was implemented that allowed you to see both upvotes and downvotes on a single post, the karma would flow freely, and serve more as a wordless response to a post when a lengthy rebuttal isn’t necessary.

Last edited Oct 01, 2012 at 01:03AM EDT
Oct 01, 2012 at 12:59AM EDT

Fifths wrote:

What bothers me the most about KYM is that it’s inconsistent in its mission goal. Verbose and other mods have posted a couple times that KYM is there to document web culture, almost in the vein of a scientific study, and sometimes they’ll bring that out as justification for doing this or that. Let’s face it people, De Facto , KYM is just another hub of silly internet humor, not an objective study on the matter. Using the fact that KYM is supposed to be a site mainly for documenting web culture as justification for certain policies would be like deciding to enforce English law in the United States because it’s supposed to be a British colony.

If you’re going to do something in the interest of transforming KYM into an objective , intellectual site for studying web culture, then there are a whole bunch of changes that need to be made that haven’t been. They could start by banning all the users who don’t have any idea what the fuck they’re talking about.

This user has been banned.

Verbose and other mods have posted a couple times that KYM is there to document web culture, almost in the vein of a scientific study, and sometimes they’ll bring that out as justification for doing this or that.

By what I am reading here, we’re not documenting internet culture to you. A very flawed argument, as there are plenty of examples on the site to counter this, like almost all the legit entries.

KYM’s goal is still the documentation of internet culture. From what I’m reading here you think we see ourselves as Wikipedia. We’re not Wikipedia. Just a quick glance at the site shows we have little in common. But that doesn’t take away that we still have certain aspects of documentation in comparison. We simply differ ourselves through things like the forums and also hosting image and video galleries. Something like internet culture needs that.

KYM is just another hub of silly internet humor, not an objective study on the matter.

I don’t think we can be compared to Cheezburger, Memebase, Reddit, 9gag, etc. That is what you’re doing here. Our articles are from an objective point of view. Regardless of people disliking the topic of the entry or it being about subjects like racism, if it’s notable, we document it. I don’t think you’ll find that in what you’re describing as “just another hub of silly internet humor”. Again, a very flawed argument.

They could start by banning all the users who don’t have any idea what the fuck they’re talking about.

This user has been banned.

You do know that you just killed every possible legit argument left in your post right? You say we shouldn’t listen to those who don’t know shit about what they’re saying, only to end with indirectly saying you don’t know shit either.

Last edited Oct 01, 2012 at 08:22AM EDT
Oct 01, 2012 at 08:17AM EDT
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Wicked Kitty Bitch wrote:

Verbose wrote:

But that isn’t to say that no one there cares at all. I went there with another complaint, and other mods helped me out with that. However, I don’t think anyone would say that the IRC is the same as the forums. It’s an entirely different culture of KYM.

Not directly related to the IRC (as I am a regular there), but my biggest problem with KYM is the division among its users. As Verbose said, there are entirely different cultures within different parts of the site. Pony General would definitely be one of these cultures. Some users only post there and never think about posting anywhere outside of it, unless it’s pony related. I’m sure a lot of people want to see users not stay exclusive to one area of the site. Then there’s the streaming threads, the people who stay exclusive to comments/entries, and lurkers. If there was a way to unite all of the cultures and get us all to communicate better, that would make me very happy.

This.
Our community could be so vibrant. Except that we segregate ourselves.
Actually, wait. I’m a forums supremacist. The commentators don’t really conform to the standards we have. They have a tendency to flame, and are obviously inferior beings.

Also @RandomMan check your privilege.

Oct 01, 2012 at 09:23AM EDT
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I’m not sure if this has been said yet, but it’s a personal peeve of mine.

I understand that websites have to make profit, but every time I see that girl wearing the “meh” t-shirt for snorg tees, with that weird facial expression, I just get rustled like the leaves on a autumns day. And last but not least, she needs to put on some freaking pants. There failure attempt at sexual appeal, so UGG.

There have been other adds to, like the one with the dancing baby, but I really hate looking at them every single day.

inb4 people get on me for being mad at something insignificant.

Oct 01, 2012 at 09:37AM EDT
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@Trash boat

I don’t think KYM directly controls what adverts get shown on the website. Those things just get delivered by Google who manages all the advertising traffic so it’s not something KYM could do about or so I presume

Even though I really wish we didn’t have adverts that played sound.

The snorg-tee’s adverts I can live with but the ones that start playing company jingles or promotional Billy Mays blurbs…uuurrrrrrgh.

Oct 01, 2012 at 09:51AM EDT
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Blue Screen (of Death) wrote:

@Trash boat

I don’t think KYM directly controls what adverts get shown on the website. Those things just get delivered by Google who manages all the advertising traffic so it’s not something KYM could do about or so I presume

Even though I really wish we didn’t have adverts that played sound.

The snorg-tee’s adverts I can live with but the ones that start playing company jingles or promotional Billy Mays blurbs…uuurrrrrrgh.

For a second there I thought you were going to defend the adds haha.
You raise a good point though, that its probably googles fault, but it still is a quality of the site for me.

Dont’ remind me of billy….

Oct 01, 2012 at 10:08AM EDT
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@Verbose

Ok, first off let me emphasize that I’m not complaining about what KYM is, a semi-serious attempt to keep track of internet stuff. I probably wouldn’t frequent the site if it tried to be a legitimate, objective attempt at academically document web culture (because that’d just be silly.)

What I dislike is how you guys will sometimes pretend and act like KYM is more professional than it is. In particular, I’m thinking about how you, Verbose, wrote that argument about what should be done with the pony image gallery based on the assumption that KYM is there to objectively document web culture, that it must remain profesionally uninterested in what it documents affecting the reputation of bronies.

You’re acting like KYM has attained a level of professional aloofness, of being able to study web-culture without being a part of it. I think this is patently false. In presenting this material, KYM is not making the statement “Here is what we found,” but “Here is what we are.” The mods and the contributors are highly immersed in web culture to a level that exceeds mere scholarly interest. That’s not a bad thing. Sometimes in order to really understand something, you need to be balls-deep in it, but I find the pretense towards objectivety to be laughable. KYM isn’t just documenting web-culture, it IS web culture, it has a genuine effect, influence, and interest on what web culture becomes. I find arguments that KYM isn’t at all prescriptive, that it doesn’t and shouldn’t attempt to affect the course of web culture, shirks the responsibility that KYM has as a PART of web culture.

It’s true that KYM does document web culture, but more so in the manner that a joke book documents jokes than a academic dissertation documents academia. In order for humor to be meaningful, there has to be some level of subjectivety involved, so obviously the jokes that made it into the joke book are going to be those personally found funny by the book’s editors, or at the very least they are jokes that the editors are able to recognize as potentially humorous.

@RandomMan

I refer you to what I said to Verbose. There’s a difference between documenting web culture (which KYM does) and doing it objectively (Which KYM doesn’t, and shouldn’t) I’m not saying that KYM should transform into a site of things that you all personally approve of, but you should realize that it’s still coming through a subjective filter, that the articles are tinted with subjectivety.

And I think I should be able to make a joke on myself without it completely deflating my arguments. I expect you to accept or reject my points based on their merrits, not based on how intelligent or silly I purport to be.

Oct 01, 2012 at 11:09AM EDT
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Blue Screen (of Death) wrote:

@Trash boat

I don’t think KYM directly controls what adverts get shown on the website. Those things just get delivered by Google who manages all the advertising traffic so it’s not something KYM could do about or so I presume

Even though I really wish we didn’t have adverts that played sound.

The snorg-tee’s adverts I can live with but the ones that start playing company jingles or promotional Billy Mays blurbs…uuurrrrrrgh.

Please report autoplay and sound threads here.

Oct 01, 2012 at 11:21AM EDT
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404 user not found wrote:


/thread

I really don’t think that sort of thing is productive in a thread dedicated in part to making suggestions to improve the database.

inb4 “Calm yo tits, he was only joking.”

Oct 04, 2012 at 03:09PM EDT
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Fun Police wrote:

I really don’t think that sort of thing is productive in a thread dedicated in part to making suggestions to improve the database.

inb4 “Calm yo tits, he was only joking.”

To be fair, it is true, though.

Oct 04, 2012 at 08:09PM EDT
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@Major division between same website communities:
Yes, I have seen various divisions for quite a long time now. I was mainly concerned with the ones happening within the forums, but I also see a major one between the Forums and Comments section.

Unfortunately, erasing such a line is extremely hard and time consuming, if not downright frustrating.

But… well, if the communication medium was consistent across the site… I don’t know, maybe it would be easier to cross back and forth between the communities as they would follow the same essential principals? I know the IRC can’t exactly be changed, but I know the Comments and Forum Section can. Maybe add Edit, Quote, Delete Time Limit, and Karma to Comments? Though some tweaking would have to be done (Comment sections don’t autolock, so Voting would have to autolock instead).

This wouldn’t stop the problem entirely, but maybe it would help.

Oct 04, 2012 at 08:46PM EDT
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@Solaire: I know that it’s true, that’s why I called the inb4. I just didn’t think it was necessary.

@Natsuru: That’s a pretty interesting idea, although it might be a challenge to get it implemented.

Oct 05, 2012 at 07:36AM EDT
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The quoted post has been deleted.

Well, that happened.

Anyway, I was going to make a thread about this topic in Site Related, but I think I should put it here instead.

I really hate it when someone makes a thread, and it’s followed by like six people saying “this belongs in JFF/General.” It happened to me early this morning, but it also happened in the thread about the Halo webseries. My thread was just something silly, which I didn’t realize at the time, but the other one wasn’t just a show about nothing. There could have been discussion, but people became fixated on the fact that it was in the wrong place and did not let it go. A general rule of thumb I like to follow is this: post only if you have a point that hasn’t been made already. As David Byrne once said, “Say something once, why say it again?” Then, he said “Psycho killer, qu’est que c’est?” but that’s beside the point.

Furthermore, this complaint (because that’s what this is, a complaints thread) seems to be part of a trend where users are trying to dictate policy to other users, and for that I’ll say there’s a point where it stops being helpful and starts being annoying. The power on this site is not vested in the users; it is vested in the mods, of whom we have at least ten. Let them do their job.

Oct 06, 2012 at 11:06AM EDT
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I agree and disagree with you, Fridge.
 
As for the Snoop Lion find, you were perfectly fine. I deleted the derailing posts in that.

However, I do think that there is a need for self-policing. Granted, making multiple posts in a user’s thread telling them that the thread should go elsewhere isn’t necessary, and it’s just going to rustle jimmies. But I don’t mind a user kindly saying that the thread should be moved elsewhere via PM to a moderator or just once by only one user in the thread.
 
But even if those instances, if you’re going to post, contribute as well.

Don’t say “Requesting move to JFF” and say nothing about the topic. It just undermines the thread.
 
ahemCitationNeededandQuantumMemeahem

Last edited Oct 06, 2012 at 11:53AM EDT
Oct 06, 2012 at 11:52AM EDT

I believe that Chris Menning’s post proved a point.
He practically did nothing, and got karma for it. Karma has to be earned, and just because Chris Menning, and other users just post for the heck of it, don’t just give them karma.

Oct 06, 2012 at 01:30PM EDT
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Ann Hiro wrote:

I believe that Chris Menning’s post proved a point.
He practically did nothing, and got karma for it. Karma has to be earned, and just because Chris Menning, and other users just post for the heck of it, don’t just give them karma.

Irony is that you’re one of those posters that made those type of “Holy Shit, it’s you!” posts for the sole reason of it being Chrismen (or any other old unanswered love interest).

If he created a thread with just that gif, you would see it as legit. Which then brings us back to the problem of older members magically getting priveleges.

But nonetheless, you’re correct in your post. Chrismen’s post shows the problem perfectly, as he’s already being rewarded for practically doing nothing. Your posts is then again an example of these for-nothing rewards he gets.

Last edited Oct 06, 2012 at 02:14PM EDT
Oct 06, 2012 at 02:02PM EDT
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RandomMan wrote:

Irony is that you’re one of those posters that made those type of “Holy Shit, it’s you!” posts for the sole reason of it being Chrismen (or any other old unanswered love interest).

If he created a thread with just that gif, you would see it as legit. Which then brings us back to the problem of older members magically getting priveleges.

But nonetheless, you’re correct in your post. Chrismen’s post shows the problem perfectly, as he’s already being rewarded for practically doing nothing. Your posts is then again an example of these for-nothing rewards he gets.

Interestingly enough, I deleted his post and those related to it before even reading this.

Shitposting isn’t necessary on this site, no matter who does it.

Oct 06, 2012 at 02:10PM EDT
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Chris wrote:

Interestingly enough, I deleted his post and those related to it before even reading this.

Shitposting isn’t necessary on this site, no matter who does it.

Thanks, I was about to edit my post to ask who removed all the posts related to Chrismen’s. It seems you deleted their posts while I was typing up mine.

And I agree completely, we shouldn’t reward shitposting, regardless of rank or position.

Can’t say I’m a fan of deleting them though. We don’t want users to think we’re janitors who clean up after them whenever they make shit. It removes the risk of having your retarded moments showing to everyone forever, as mods will simply delete them for you by default. This then kills the function of the 30 minute deletion limit, which is to support good posts and hold back bad ones. Not to forget that suddenly deleted posts can be confusing, as the topic can suddenly be harder to follow. If it happens that users get their posts removed, I believe they should be notified of this (and perhaps warned as well).

tl;dr Don’t delete shitposts, just downvote them and perhaps leave a reply. Mods aren’t janitors.


(For those unaware of the situation, Chris Menning made a post of nothing but a pointless gif. He was rewarded for this with karma and multiple “Holy shit, it’s you!” posts.)

Last edited Oct 06, 2012 at 02:24PM EDT
Oct 06, 2012 at 02:13PM EDT
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This site sometimes take the wrong stuff too seriously.

Sometimes I would see videos with less than 1000 hits, or reddit threads that have . Who is to say that they are notable? I have seen people just asking us to add their blog/video to our entry for free advertisement.

Oct 06, 2012 at 02:20PM EDT
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Don’t delete shitposts, just downvote them and perhaps leave a reply. Mods aren’t janitors.

That’s true. However, I don’t think a few moderators saying “Don’t give karma to useless/derailing/undermining posts,” won’t actually make users downvote it. There’s no way for us to make users give out karma in a certain way. Heck, we don’t even know who gives the karma.

For example, everyone knows not to post in spam threads, and yet, many users still do. Even after I’ve PM’d them and told them not to, users still do it. RandomMan, you’ve warned users about certain kinds of images, and they still upload them. The only reason these users would stop is if you banned them, because they learning issue/they just plain don’t care.

However, we can’t enforce how users give out karma.


It removes the risk of having your retarded moments showing to everyone forever, as mods will simply delete them for you by default.

Also, I think there’s an assumption that all users care about such posts or they even want those posts to be removed. Heck, they keep making the posts. I don’t think they’d even want us to delete them. Simply, they don’t see it as a risk, because they don’t think it’s retarded. Otherwise, they’d stop doing it after a while.
 
But on the topic of deleting posts, I only delete them when I think it’s endangering an otherwise decent thread. That’s what I did with Fridge’s thread: Three users started up with 60’s Spiderman posts, and there weren’t many posts after that. Had I left them there, users probably would have thought it was OK to jump in, because they would have seen the posts already posted there with positive karma.

And since we can’t rely upon all users to give out karma based upon what it’s supposed to be given out for, I think deleting posts is an option that may actually be underutilized.
 
Otherwise, there’s a chance that their post just stays and collects upvotes (against only a couple of users’ downvotes): Which is exactly what they wanted in the first place.

Oct 06, 2012 at 02:42PM EDT

I suspect that older users get more Karma because they’re oranges.

And by “oranges”, I mean people assume that since they’ve been around for so long that they know how stuff works around here. A brand new member making a flippant comment will get downvoted because they have no cred, no prior good points to fall back on, whereas the older members have established that they know what they’re doing, and therefore aren’t being jerks if they crack a lighthearted joke at someone or something’s expense. There’s a saying that goes “once you know the rules, then you can break them”, and I think that applies here very well.

Oct 06, 2012 at 02:55PM EDT
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For example, everyone knows not to post in spam threads, and yet, many users still do. Even after I’ve PM’d them and told them not to, users still do it. RandomMan, you’ve warned users about certain kinds of images, and they still upload them. The only reason these users would stop is if you banned them, because they learning issue/they just plain don’t care.

If a ban is the only thing that will make them stop, then you should apply that.


And since we can’t rely upon all users to give out karma based upon what it’s supposed to be given out for, I think deleting posts is an option that may actually be underutilized.

Fair enough, it was dumb of me to think of this when there will always be people supporting such posts with karma. But I keep with notifying and/or warning them afterwards. If that doesn’t help, perhaps a ban will.


Site rule 2 reads:

Keep it relevant. If you have nothing to say on a particular subject, you can skip the topic and move on. If you want to address a specific individual about personal matters, contact the user via private message instead of starting a public discussion.

We should really enforce that rule more often. Derailing is by this rule a bannable offense. Same with shitposting and other pointless posts we’re bothered with in threads way too often.

Last edited Oct 06, 2012 at 03:03PM EDT
Oct 06, 2012 at 02:57PM EDT
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You know what all these posts have reminded me? That I’m bothered by the enforcement on KYM. There’s perhaps ~20 moderators on here.

Just saying. It bothers me.

Oct 06, 2012 at 03:03PM EDT
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量子 Meme wrote:

You know what all these posts have reminded me? That I’m bothered by the enforcement on KYM. There’s perhaps ~20 moderators on here.

Just saying. It bothers me.

But out of those, there is only a small amount actually active.

When old mods stop visiting the site, you have a lack of moderating, and thus a new batch should come. Simple as that. You can’t trust the same small amount of mods to keep moderating the site forever.

Last edited Oct 06, 2012 at 03:10PM EDT
Oct 06, 2012 at 03:06PM EDT
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RandomMan wrote:

Site rule 2 reads:
Keep it relevant. If you have nothing to say on a particular subject, you can skip the topic and move on. If you want to address a specific individual about personal matters, contact the user via private message instead of starting a public discussion.

We should really enforce that rule more often. Derailing is by this rule a bannable offense. Same with shitposting and other pointless posts we’re bothered with in threads way too often.

Ironically the one who wrote this rule broke it in this very thread
If shitposting is against the rules, then Chris Menning actually broke the rule he wrote with his post here
Though, I suppose Jack’s point of “know the rules, then you can break them” applies here very, very well.

Last edited Oct 06, 2012 at 03:15PM EDT
Oct 06, 2012 at 03:14PM EDT
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Yes and no. I think that quote might be taken out of context a bit.

If you know the rule, then that means you know why that rule was made. So if you break the rule because you know that infraction won’t have that sort of negative effect, then technically, why not?

However, making the rule shouldn’t exempt you from following it. Also, even if you know that your post won’t cause a lot of trouble, it’s unfair to other users who see the rule being broken knowing they can’t break it themselves.
 
I think there are a couple of camps. Mister J and others (Chris Menning, apparently) probably don’t take KYM and its rules all that seriously. That’s not meant to be an insult, but I do think it predisposes them to be more lax than a situation could call for.

On the other hand, a user like me wants structure. It’s an “An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure” sort of thing. However, that predisposes me to taking some minor things too seriously and making a small issue to be more than what it actually is.
 
I think that just comes with being different people though.

Oct 06, 2012 at 03:43PM EDT
This post has been hidden due to low karma.
Click here to show this post.

Here I would have displayed a GIF that implies something about how soapbox rants are far less productive than filing specific complaints in their own threads, but other mods feel like censoring me.

Too many rules. Not enough Cheetos.

Last edited Oct 06, 2012 at 05:59PM EDT
Oct 06, 2012 at 05:43PM EDT
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Chris Menning wrote:

Here I would have displayed a GIF that implies something about how soapbox rants are far less productive than filing specific complaints in their own threads, but other mods feel like censoring me.

Too many rules. Not enough Cheetos.

Who are you even.

Oct 06, 2012 at 05:59PM EDT
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Chris Menning wrote:

Here I would have displayed a GIF that implies something about how soapbox rants are far less productive than filing specific complaints in their own threads, but other mods feel like censoring me.

Too many rules. Not enough Cheetos.

It did not add to the conversation nor did it provide any insightful information.

In fact, I would argue that it disrupts the conversation by distracting from the main topic, especially as you are one of our old admins and with that have an automatic ‘celebrity’ status.

A disruption of a conversation, no matter who does it, is still a disruption. Shitposting, no matter who does it, is still shitposting.

Unlike what you say, it wasn’t there to generate conversation or imply any specific thing than a disdain for the entire thread and, beyond that, a disdain for basic posting etiquette.

If you aren’t going to add to a conversation, please don’t take part in it.

Oct 06, 2012 at 06:05PM EDT
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