Forums / General

I thought that the GIF conveyed meaning appropriately. I’m sorry you disagree.

That did not help me at all.

So it was Chris Menning who’s messing with the boards?

I get the oddest feeling that the mods here will hear about this from the admins, but Chris’ point still stands.

EDIT: I mean active Chris.

As for filing specific complaints, that has happened on various occasions. Generally, the answer is “That requires coding, we only have one coder, he’s busy with other stuff.” Thread goes necro or gets locked. Nothing is done.

At the very least, this thread serves the purpose that the Suggestions thread hasn’t. Not many people go into Site-Related (now Broken Cheetos,) so having a similar thread in General has (unlike Suggestions) actually gotten mods and users on the same thread, discussing the same things.

And we have actually decided what to do in those situations.
 
So I would argue that this thread has actually been more productive than all of those threads.

A billion times this.
You know, what you all are doing IS a matter of taking things way too seriously.
Olders members have the right to step into the “somewhat breaking the rule” territory because they helped the site, wrote things and participated (or still participate in some cases) to the site itself. Not only the forums but the whole website. It is not a privilege. It’s how every community works. Most olders members, at some point, eventually proved that they knew what they were doing. That’s why they can swing around some rules. That doesn’t mean they disrespect them. That simply means that, because of their experience here, other should trust them and not… come to something like this very thread.

Does that mean that we lack respect to newcomers? Of course not! But newcomers can’t expect to be welcome if they posts only advertisement, spams or the like to the site. Every freaking community ever works that way. Trust has to be gained, as cold and heartless as it may sound.
A newcomer can’t point to olds members who, sometimes, “break” the rules and don’t really get told off for it. That level of “trust” allows people to be less strict, simply because those users have proved many times in the past that they aren’t really there to create chaos or to mess with the community itself.
A new member musts earn that “trust”. A mutual sharing process, if you will. You show that you are here for the articles/forums/community/your own reasons and that you can add things to the site/community/whatever and we’ll accept you as you are.

Remember when Chris Menning created an alt account of a new member who submitted valid internet trends that didn’t look as “memey” to many users, who incidentaly spammed his wall and the comment section of his entries with insults and the like ?

It was to prove a point, a point he proved yet again with the code: The internet is a freaking serious business and the KYM’s community can tend to be terrible at times.
I don’t approve what he did with the code (if he is the one involved) but, seriously, I had the right to talk about my blog (ok, maybe without creating a new thread, ditto) because people should at least assume that I’m not here to mess with them.

I’ve learnt in many places, here included, that power makes people.. overzealous for some reason.
I’ve also learnt, even though I don’t do it all the time yeah, that everything in this thread should have been discussed between us mods and the staff. Not exposed to the public like that.

Olders members have the right to step into the “somewhat breaking the rule” territory because they helped the site, wrote things and participated (or still participe in some cases) to the site itself. Not only the forums but the whole website. It is not a privilege. It’s how every community works.

I disagree. I don’t think that anyone should be able to be above the rules of the community they choose to take part in, no matter who they are.

And, as far as you’ve described it, it IS a privilege of older users if they were able to do so.

It was to prove a point, a point he proved yet again with the code: The internet is a freaking serious business and the KYM’s community can tend to be terrible at times.

I had the right […] because people should at least assume that I’m not here to mess with them.

But that was the whole problem with Menning. He WAS messing with us and using power that he, frankly, shouldn’t even have. I think a member who left the site over a year ago who just came back, disregarded common courtesy and changed the actual code of the website isn’t something we should just chill out about.

I’ve also learnt, even though I don’t do it all the time yeah, that everything in this thread should have been discussed between us mods and the staff. Not exposed to the public like that.

I disagree. I think having an area where all users can discuss what they want the place they spend their time and attention on to be like is beneficial to the community.

I don’t think keeping mod secrets is beneficial to the community.

Tomberry wrote:

Olders members have the right to step into the “somewhat breaking the rule” territory because they helped the site, wrote things and participated (or still participe in some cases) to the site itself. Not only the forums but the whole website. It is not a privilege. It’s how every community works. Most olders members, at some point, eventually proved that they knew what they were doing. That’s why they can swing around some rules. That doesn’t mean they disrespect them. That simply means that, because of their experience here, other should trust them and not… come to something like this very thread.

I agree and disagree.

Fair enough, older and more experienced users who have a good history here should be trusted. If they make a slip, we should be able to act milder against it based on their history. Everyone makes mistakes, we know he is/was a productive member of this community, no biggy.

But that doesn’t mean it should an excuse to justify certain actions. That older members should be allowed to break the rules and get away with it. We can’t have older users go around and abuse their trust. Their experience isn’t a get-out-of-jail-free card.

Like Chis said, Menning wasn’t doing some innocent thing we could let pass, he abused the powers he shouldn’t even have at this point to change the actual coding of the site. And he basically did it just to fuck with us. Such actions aren’t something I believe we can just let pass.

I had the right to talk about my blog (ok, maybe without creating a new thread, ditto) because people should at least assume that I’m not here to mess with them.

We never said you didn’t. If you used that blog sharing thread for your post, you could tell us about your blog all you wanted and I wouldn’t care at all. You’re free to share it as a member of this community, as was everyone else in that thread.

The issue we were pointing out was the seperate thread, something the people in the blog thread didn’t have. But you agree with us now that the seperate thread wasn’t a good idea, which we can see as a lesson for next time. Pointing out mistakes for the next time can’t hurt.

Remember when Chris Menning created an alt account of a new member who submitted valid internet trends that didn’t look as “memey” to many users, who incidentaly spammed his wall and the comment section of his entries with insults and the like?

Hardly anyone here does. I have to run on the stories that I have been told, which don’t give much details.

I disagree. I don’t think that anyone should be able to be above the rules of the community they choose to take part in, no matter who they are.

And, as far as you’ve described it, it IS a privilege of older users if they were able to do so.

Unless there is no difference between “old” and “new” members? Gain trust from the community and voilà, you’re “old”, even though you have been there for less than a week. It’s all a matter of trust. But if you want to monitor a whole community by looking like a tyrant, I’m more than glad to see how it turns out. I guess you all want to have some kind of equilibrium between the two. If that’s the case, I would gladly help.

But that was the whole problem with Menning. He WAS messing with us and using power that he, frankly, shouldn’t even have. I think a member who left the site over a year ago who just came back, disregarded common courtesy and changed the actual code of the website isn’t something we should just chill out about.

On one hand, yep, I don’t agree with his behavior here, so I agree with your point. On the other hand, I don’t know if he would have come back to play with us if this flamewar-friendly thread existed.

I disagree. I think having an area where all users can discuss what they want the place they spend their time and attention on to be like is beneficial to the community.

I don’t think keeping mod secrets is beneficial to the community.

Yes, constructive criticism always helps improve things, but then it has be rigorously monitored. I mean, I think It would have been safer and, more “official” if a staff member created it. No offense, but it was a recipe for flamewars…

EDIT:

Hardly anyone here does. I have to run on the stories that I have been told, which don’t give much details.

I think it’s relevant to the matter. Chris Menning created an alt account and pretended he was a new member (something Onion MCGarlic I think it was, it got deleted and Chris was a bit admonished by the other staff members).
It was silly, childish, unnecessary but it showed how the community tended to react violently against new users submitting things that they think weren’t memes. Like, for a long time, the deadpool spam in every entry that lacked description… or didn’t look “memey” enough.
I have never seen him acting childish on KYM without a reason. Point taken, it’s usually uncalled for and if he has to get a punishment for what he did, I’m sure the staff will do something about it.

But again, I don’t think it’s simply “to mess with us”. Or, if that’s the case here, then I don’t know him as much.

On the other hand, I don’t know if he would have come back to play with us if this flamewar-friendly thread existed.

I disagree with this even being an argument. Something like that doesn’t justify power abuse on the levels he made himself guilty of.

That’s because it’s pretty much a Straw Man argument. And I do think that consistency is very necessary. Chris Menning shouldn’t be treated (or punished) any differently than any other mod who grossly abuse their power.

It’s up to the admins, of course, but a removal of his powers is necessary at the very least.

I’m pretty sure it’s a more than a year old issue, and frankly, why are you guys talking about whether ChrisMen should be banned or not? All the mods are just either piling up or siding with him just because he came back and made a post with a gif in it. He hasn’t done much involving mod powers for a year, and the admins already made their decisions when the incident was over.

And plus, you were talking about how not adding to the discussion topic is against the rules. Now all the mods are just derailing the thread.

That’s another thing I dislike about KYM. Hypocrisy.

This board is now a ponies board. No code was changed. I simply pressed an EDIT button that some of you might not have. I hope this doesn’t seriously ruin anybody’s day.

Welp. It looks like many Jimmies are thoroughly rustled. I’ll be changing the forum names back now. And to think of all the fun we could have had with Ponies vs. Homestuck board invasions. C’est la vie.

Oh, that is rather simple to address:

Chris Menning is abusing his powers in a way that moderators shouldn’t. He has more powers than the rest of us, but as an inactive member, he comes in and changes things around, because we told him to not post off-topic. It’s petty.

Remember when Daniel Vazquez spammed the thread in response to how the mods reacted on a previous issue? He had no powers, and he was banned. Chris Menning abused his powers twice in response to how moderators reacted on a much less serious issue.

Shouldn’t moderators, active or not, be held more accountable than most users because they had earned their responsibilities and powers? Chris M. has done a ton for this site. More than likely any current moderator. I don’t deny that.

But he’s making a mockery of the site moderation, because it seems like he’s upset that he can’t break a rule without being moderated.

I criticize other moderators just like they criticize me. I don’t see why the correct or tolerated course of action to criticism would be to alter the names of the boards. It’s petty. The gif isn’t why we’d say “Take away his powers.” It’s his reaction to having it removed, especially considering he came in out of basically nowhere to do it.

As for hypocrisy, well, I think you could see how this bothers us. It’s not quite hypocrisy, because we’re on topic still. We’re just discussing each point further, like we did for other issues we wanted to address. And it would be redundant to open another thread just to discuss a point that came up here. But at the same time, I have been making suggestions about things I didn’t like to other moderators and administrators. If you didn’t like the perceived hypocrisy, then you certainly should have said something about it previously.

However, a point of merit to the thread, you have been given the opportunity to voice it here so we can be aware of your opinion. Which is why I think it was a good idea.
 
I would like for users to weigh in, however, This has been a mod discussion for a while, but since this seems to be unprecedented, I think we could stand to hear everyone’s opinion on how we’re going about this.

Please do not downvote Chris M. It will not help the issue.

I think the entire point flew right past you.

Luckily I made sure to screencap it:

^That was yesterday, not a year ago. Please update yourself first next time.

I clicked an edit button. Jesus.

Simpsons GIFs: Not Even Once.

^ We don’t have that function. I am a Database Moderator, pretty much the highest level of mod you can reach in current moderation days, and I don’t have that. You can check the screencap in my previous post, it doesn’t show any button.

Ergo, you abused a function current moderation isn’t even allowed to have, with good reason it seems.

CHRIS MENNING FOR PRESIDENT 2012

It’s not that I’m abusing a function that “isn’t even allowed.” I was the original community manager, so my account is not like the volunteer moderator accounts. Consider mine the prototype. Certain things were not carried over into the creation of accounts like yours. I used to change the board names all the time. It was generally regarded as a fun prank back then.

But answer me this: How is it that you guys are able to delete posts that you simply disagree with? How is that not an abuse of power?

Also, do you even remember This Cheeto?

Forums < Image Galleries

Conversationalists < Sr. Researchers

A forum specifically made to point out flaws in this site probably belongs in site related.

I agree that pics/vids should have their own karmatic points system and I think comments and forum posts should be lumped together since they’re so much alike. I don’t understand how such a profitable site can have only afford one coder but at least the coder seems to be doing okay since the site hasn’t turned into 4chan or 9gag yet.

As I said in my posts on the previous page, I disagreed with the removal of the post. Harsh and uncalled for, but still a far lower level of abuse than what you did. Not to forget the person who did it was a current active moderator, not an inactive for over a year one.

Seeing how you were the original Community Manager, the level of trust given to you was even higher than the moderators. Yet, after not associating yourself with the site for over a year, you decide to abuse that trust. Maybe things like that were fun pranks back then, but times change, and the current moderators take their responsibility a lot more serious than in the past.

And I wasn’t there during the creation of the Cheeto, but the thread has been resurrected a few times. I know what the Cheeto is and had my share of laughs with it as well. But you don’t see me creating entries for the Cheeto and confirming them while at it, just because that is within the reach of the power I was trusted with.

RandomMan is complaining about abuse of power while Chris is complaining that he’s complaining about it, that what he’s doing is completely reasonable.

:I

I don’t know what to say…

Jesus F. Christ. Of all the people to start a flamewar, it’s the mods. Don’t deny it, RandomMan, this is a flamewar, or bordering very close to one.

First of all, hi, Chris, it’s Twilitlord. I was posting in 2009-2010 and left for a long time, so I have a similar situation to Chris’s. I just wanted to give an opinon from my view and give you guys an idea of where he’s coming from.

While what he did was unacceptable, you guys need to realize that it was unacceptable by today’s standards. Rules and enforcement of them have changed a lot in the last two years, and I’m sure that some of that was during this last year when Chris M was gone. Back then, it was a lot more informal – hell, This Cheeto… started in General if I remember right (I started posting about a week or so after the Cheeto’s inception). It’s moved now, and it might have been in JFF the whole time, but even then the pic was still more or less a derail. In today’s forums, that would have been frowned upon.

In addition, the few mods we had had a considerable amount of power, especially Chris M, who was basically KING OF THE MODS. While he usually used his powers judiciously, I do remember a couple of times where he essentially played pranks like changing board names. Sure, it was abusing power, but back then it was also in good fun. In addition, he would spontaneously do it while still being active, not do it after being, in his eyes, snubbed by the moderators, and in your eyes, changing them in revenge for deleting a derail post.

I’m not saying that it wasn’t uncalled for and rude. I’m just saying that the site’s changed. You guys are a lot more strict now, and he kind of made himself look like a jerk in the first place by derailing an honestly serious thread (which were rare outside of site and research back then). He just might not be familiar with today’s KYM standards.

Oh god damn it. Now you’ve pulled me into this.

While what he did was unacceptable, you guys need to realize that it was unacceptable by today’s standards.

He did what he did a day ago. If killing and rape were fine 200 years ago and isnt fine today. Then get with the program and quit raping and killing. Same thing here. So he was gone, he gotta lurk and learn what has changed.

Being an “oldfag” doesn’t give you special titles and privileges. Why is it those who have been around for a while can get away with more stuff?

Also: Chris didnt spontaneously come back after a year of absence or two years. He knows whats going on he has been periodically checking KYM

@Twilitlord

(For starters, what Ivan said)

Most of the current active mods simply don’t remember “back in the old days”. We didn’t post in a forum where pranks like that were casual business. Times change, as does the site. We couldn’t in any way know stuff like that is something we should ignore, so why should we suddenly act like it’s nothing at all? The current mods take their responsibilty serious, maybe a bit too serious. But KYM has changed and grown a lot since your time, so I hope you understand we’re doing the right thing.

Those arguments were better off given directly at the beginning.

I understand we may have seem hostile towards Menning, and I apologise for that. But regardless of him being one of the old big guns, he still didn’t associate himself with the site for over a year. And the moment he returns, he pranks around by changing stuff. Actions like that may be casual business to him, but not to us, so I hope you can understand our reaction towards the situation.

I have no problem with Menning, he still did a lot for the site back then which he got my respect for. I would also have no problem with having Menning back on the site. But the moderation has changed a lot since then. If one of the mods nowadays would use his powers to prank around, we would question if he can handle the responsibility, and taking it away will come along if the mod continues. Like Verbose said, we criticize other moderators just like they criticize us. And that’s what we were doing here towards Menning.

We both were unaware of what was normal to the other side. Menning was unaware that those things aren’t so accepted nowadays, we were unaware that it was a normal thing back then. But that doesn’t justify what happened.

I have to thank you and Ivan though for weighing in on a pretty much mod-only discussion, that’s not something that happens often.

@Quantum

You do realize that posts like yours and Ann’s towards Menning on the previous page were what started the entire thing in the first place right?

@RandomMan

I apologize for that, you may not have seen what the original post was before I edited it, but I must say it was pretty pointless. However, I was in the middle of doing something and couldn’t delete it anyway, so I had to leave it.

When I came back, it was gone, good. Argument kicked off? Bad.

Again, I’m sorry for that post.

Chris Menning has staff powers.

Chris Menning is no longer staff.

Thus, Chris Menning no longer needs staff powers. While his contributions to the site are indisputable, I believe that only the current staff should have staff powers. So, at the very least, I think he should be returned to simply being a DB mod.

This is the point where I kinda just start watching from the sidelines. When heated discussion like this happens, and if it usually starts talking about KYM of the past I tend to keep my mouth shut.
I do not want to take sides when both sides are KYM.

Tomberry wrote:

Remember when Chris Menning created an alt account of a new member who submitted valid internet trends that didn’t look as “memey” to many users, who incidentaly spammed his wall and the comment section of his entries with insults and the like?

From what I have gathered, there was a bit more to it than that. I looked into this a while ago, and it seems like he made a large amount of spam threads, flooding the boards. That may be the source of some of those insults. I also think he might have switched the name and avatars of the accounts around, leading people to believe that a community manager was banned for no reason.
Yes, I realize I did that too, but that doesn’t change the fact that there’s more to the story than you were letting on. If you want to make a point, you should at least acknowledge the full story.

Also, I feel like users need to do more to change their posting habits if people are letting on that they’re posting badly. For example, Mr J, who I looked up to and still do, used to dislike me. Instead of saying “WEL FUK DAT GUY I DO WAT I WANT”, I just queried him in IRC and asked him to tell me what I was doing wrong and how to better myself. Instead of saying things like “Stop posting”, he told me exactly what I was doing wrong, and it was all reasonable stuff, so I changed my posting habits accordingly, becoming a better user in the process. People need to be more receptive to input sometimes, and if you have a problem with somebody, maybe just take them to the side and suggest to them how they could do better. Don’t call them out in public, because that would do nothing, they’ll just think “Man what a dick” and continue on.

What I hate the most……
…trolls spoil about 90% of the stuff here.

How do I request a lock on a thread the mods are internet fighting in?

I understand your reasoning completely, Random. In fact, I approve of it. I’m just saying we’ve got two entirely different KYMs here. However, we’re dealing with today’s KYM and regardless of how Chris M remembers this site there should be consequences. I just think that a ban is too harsh under the circumstances, but DB mod like opspe suggested is a good idea. It’s not like we have a lot of mods on indefinite hiatus anyways…

However, we must leave it up to the admins. In the end, they’re the ones who should decide what happens with obsolete proto-mod powers like these, especially when said proto-mod only comes through every so often.

The ban idea was forgotten of the moment we were corrected on his change being just a simple mod function for him, before that correction we believed he was changing the actual coding of the site (something that may warrant a ban when done).

Most mods at this point agree removal of his staff powers would be the least that should happen, stripped clean of all powers at the most. But yes, this is up to the staff in the end.

You know what’s wrong with Skyrim KYM these days? Everyone is so obsessed with death being right.

I’m gonna stay quiet about how Chrismens pranks were funny back in the day, and how the term “oldfag” was okay to say. Also I do like KYM now, but I miss some of the hilarity it used to have.
I wonder if ChrisMen can change JFF to it’s original planned name “Tiki Bar”?

I dislike how many users don’t look past 4chan’s /b/ board but I suppose being, essentially a SFW Encyclopedia Dramatica, the majority of users have facebook accounts and think the Republicans and Democrats aren’t just puppets of the Jewish Elitists.

Sometimes I dislike when people bump a thread to request a lock, or other various things when clearly it was gonna die.

The thread still serves its function, so it will not be locked.

I don’t want to go on a tangent here but one of my biggest peeves about this site is the community.

You see, you people, you’re so selfish. Nobody is ever willing to be a martyr, they want to keep their brains as if they actually use it. I’m trying to make use outta of it. As a zombie, my diet is supposed to be very strict but I’m tired of being flexible with everybody telling me I can’t nom on their heads whenever I want.

Jeez.

This is supposed to be a serious thread guys, don’t derail it or lock.

This thread has been helpful in understanding what makes the user base tick and what to do about it to avoid pissing each other off. So far from this discussion we have understood:

• Don’t give people karma just because they have karma
• Don’t give people karma just because they are oldfags
• Don’t be Adam Deland
• Nobody likes your autoplay video’s
• Nobody likes deadpoolers
• There are some neglected articles that deserve to be confirmed/finished
• Profile features should have options to disable them
• Don’t downvote people just because you don’t agree with their opinions
• Don’t whine about article issues you could fix yourself
• Don’t self-promote
• Chris Menning dun goofed
• …and the most recent lesson: Read the post dates (Boomer, are you paying attention?)

Plus any other useful lessons of site courtesy on this thread that I left out.

Though, whether or not to act upon those is up to the individual

The Advice Animals. Oh god the advice animals.

I’ve understood all these points in the time I’ve been here, it’s the reason why I have under 1,000 negative karma, I know what I’m doing, but some people just downvote other because they either don’t like them or disagree or are just doing it for the sake of it, that can apply for upvoting too.

Plus: I’m going to let this thread die, I hoped it would, but I hate it when people request locks on threads because people are arguing when in actual fact nobody cares about it anymore; the thread still serves its purpose.

Just needed to get that off my chest.

My biggest problem is people complaining about a liberal bias on KYM just because of the Mitt Romney memes. Romney is an idiot and his memes are funny. He deserves to be mocked. I also hate it when I go to a new article and the top comment is an anti-meme comment. Take Commander Meow or Binder Full of Women for example. Also, who’s Chris Manning?

Sometimes karma is too easy to earn these days.
Sometimes a clever post at the right time is all a user needs to get a decent amount of karma.

@Chowz
Chris Menning

I hate it how we have an entire group of users who do nothing but put down entries they don’t like in the comments.

Connectedly, I hate how said users attack brand new members who make illegitimate entries with negative comments on their intelligence and existence, and pass judgement on them for “ruining this site”.

I also hate it when people make the argument that KYM isn’t liberal because “X candidate is an idiot.” I’ve been listening to that for every Rebublican candidate in the spotlight since I joined; the argument is fallacious. Seriously, you disagreeing with someone is not grounds for stupidity.

You can’t tell me what to do, you’re not my mom.