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Gamespot Tackles Sexism

Last posted Dec 08, 2012 at 12:12AM EST. Added Nov 30, 2012 at 11:29PM EST
48 posts from 21 users

Given how sexist the internet can be, making that video was a probably bad for their online reputation. Just look at the reception in the comments section.

Last edited Nov 30, 2012 at 11:56PM EST
Nov 30, 2012 at 11:45PM EST
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So, is the complaint about gamers or game developers? Because I’m not a developer… and I don’t see most of the people this video reaches being very influential in the “industry”…

Dec 01, 2012 at 12:42AM EST
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This really is stupid.

There is nobody forcing anyone to buy these “sexist” games, per say.

By this logic, lets fight against Far Cry 3 because it’s to violent.

Dec 01, 2012 at 05:08AM EST

My inner feminist is screaming inside.
This is why I have respect for Gamestop, though. They went on camera to state an unpopular opinion, and I’m glad they did it. It was also pretty funny.

@Nikolaki8: Did you watch the video? They were talking about how women are treated in the industry, not how women characters are treated in games.

Dec 01, 2012 at 10:45AM EST
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Feminists…. ON MY INTERNET?!
HESGBFHBVHECJDBSBDFHJSBHDFJMOSTUNORTHODOXDHSHSHDFKAS

But seriously,
The gaming industry usually is one of the worst for discrimination of any kind, sadly, and this is usually through Homophobia and Sexism. Here’s a web series I personally am a fan of, and I’m not even a woman:

She got a lot of flack from gamers, due to them saying that she was merely stretching to point everything out as sexist, but it’s not true. Sexism is still a big problem, and it is evident in video games as well. Sexism is a lot more than just a woman in the kitchen, it’s how they are presented otherwise. There are two major problems in video games, how they are absent and how they are presented when present. A lot of major videogame characters are male, and there is a lack of women. But on the other hand, they are usually one of the tropes mentioned in the video. A lot of videogame women are either sexualised or act as a damsel in distress. This is something that to the average male gamer could see as stretching, so they often hit back at it. Here’s proof:

That wasn’t very well received either.

Last edited Dec 01, 2012 at 01:39PM EST
Dec 01, 2012 at 01:34PM EST
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INB4 Gamestop Gamespot

Dec 01, 2012 at 01:52PM EST

I feel like sexism can never be eliminated as a whole. Sure, it can surely decrease with more awareness, but there’s always going to be that one douche that makes the “Sandwich” comments. And it’ll surely never go away in places such as gaming, all because of it’s a place where you can say and do almost anything without severe consequences – much like the Internet. Once someone has found a place to spit out their terrible sayings, they’ll be sure to say what’s on their mind, unfortunately.

Dec 01, 2012 at 02:25PM EST
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>Title says Gamestop

>video by Gamespot

>ZillieZephyr inb4ing me

Dec 01, 2012 at 03:42PM EST
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Chokesmurf wrote:

I feel like sexism can never be eliminated as a whole. Sure, it can surely decrease with more awareness, but there’s always going to be that one douche that makes the “Sandwich” comments. And it’ll surely never go away in places such as gaming, all because of it’s a place where you can say and do almost anything without severe consequences – much like the Internet. Once someone has found a place to spit out their terrible sayings, they’ll be sure to say what’s on their mind, unfortunately.

I personally think sexism, as well as any kind of prejudice in some form, will never be eliminated as a whole because it is impossible to have a 100% perspective on a group without being a part of that group. You can’t know what it’s like to be a woman without being a woman, for example. Therefore, some form of stereotype will always be present in people groups in regards to other groups.

However, it’s when prejudice impacts the social and cultural experiences of a people group as a whole that it becomes a real problem.

Last edited Dec 01, 2012 at 03:47PM EST
Dec 01, 2012 at 03:47PM EST
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You know what my least favorite argument against feminism is?
“Guys have it hard too, but you don’t hear us complaining!”
I supports men’s rights just as much as women’s rights, but to see men (and some women) completely deny the fact that women are treated unfairly in the gaming world both as gamers and game developers completely boggles my mind. I don’t even understand how one can look at the way gamers treat girls first hand and tell me truthfully that they see no problem. I’m not saying this is the worst thing since the holocaust, and I know that these views of women in the gaming world will get better with time, I’m just saying my faith in humanity has been bruised a bit. I’m done ranting, I need a nap.

Last edited Dec 01, 2012 at 04:57PM EST
Dec 01, 2012 at 04:56PM EST
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Crimson Locks wrote:

You know what my least favorite argument against feminism is?
“Guys have it hard too, but you don’t hear us complaining!”
I supports men’s rights just as much as women’s rights, but to see men (and some women) completely deny the fact that women are treated unfairly in the gaming world both as gamers and game developers completely boggles my mind. I don’t even understand how one can look at the way gamers treat girls first hand and tell me truthfully that they see no problem. I’m not saying this is the worst thing since the holocaust, and I know that these views of women in the gaming world will get better with time, I’m just saying my faith in humanity has been bruised a bit. I’m done ranting, I need a nap.

I agree. The gaming community is so horribly sexist it’s deplorable. And all the people who hate feminism generalize all feminists as insane, unattractive women who hate men.

Dec 01, 2012 at 05:08PM EST
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Crimson Locks wrote:

You know what my least favorite argument against feminism is?
“Guys have it hard too, but you don’t hear us complaining!”
I supports men’s rights just as much as women’s rights, but to see men (and some women) completely deny the fact that women are treated unfairly in the gaming world both as gamers and game developers completely boggles my mind. I don’t even understand how one can look at the way gamers treat girls first hand and tell me truthfully that they see no problem. I’m not saying this is the worst thing since the holocaust, and I know that these views of women in the gaming world will get better with time, I’m just saying my faith in humanity has been bruised a bit. I’m done ranting, I need a nap.

I think that, “Guys have it hard too, but you don’t hear us complaining.” is a good argument. I don’t want the start a flame war here, *cough* but in my opinion, feminists are only talking about certain things when it comes to equality. They aren’t talking about picking up a tab; they aren’t talking about holding a door open for a guy; and they aren’t talking about doing things that guys like doing. (e.g: Watching their favourite show on T.V.) Being a female as a teenager isn’t hard at all. Being a parent/wife is hard work.

Back to the conversation. If you go onto the Internet, expect to see and hear stuff that isn’t pleasant. It’s very hard to stop this. In other words, expect to be offended when playing a video game/going online.

@Your New God
I don’t seek feminist as terrible people, I just think they only want a few forms of equality. If they want equality, they can have it. They can do everything that a male does in a relationship. But yet, they won’t, because at this point in time, that’s not socially acceptable.

Last edited Dec 01, 2012 at 07:52PM EST
Dec 01, 2012 at 07:49PM EST

@Nikolaki: I only find the “Guys have it hard too, but you don’t hear us complaining” argument bullshit because it implies that women don’t have a right to complain when they are being treated unfairly when they most certainly do. Also, a true feminist would offer to split the tab and not expect a guy to hold a door open for her. My sister is one of the strongest (without being obnoxious) feminists you’ll meet, and she despises when a date insists on paying for the whole meal because she does not find it fair. Even I, who am not as strong a feminist, don’t like a date picking up the whole tab. I don’t know where you got this idea that feminists still expect themselves to be put above their men, but it most certainly is not true and the “feminists” that insist that a man do these things is obviously just using her “feminist” views to have special treatment given to her.

“Being a female teenager isn’t hard”. I take a little offense to that, seeing as I am just leaving my teens. Sure, being a parent/wife/adult is much harder than being a teenager but teens still have their own struggles and battles to fight and having a guy on Xbox Live giving them threats and sexual demands is not going to help anything.

Dec 01, 2012 at 08:17PM EST
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Crimson Locks wrote:

@Nikolaki: I only find the “Guys have it hard too, but you don’t hear us complaining” argument bullshit because it implies that women don’t have a right to complain when they are being treated unfairly when they most certainly do. Also, a true feminist would offer to split the tab and not expect a guy to hold a door open for her. My sister is one of the strongest (without being obnoxious) feminists you’ll meet, and she despises when a date insists on paying for the whole meal because she does not find it fair. Even I, who am not as strong a feminist, don’t like a date picking up the whole tab. I don’t know where you got this idea that feminists still expect themselves to be put above their men, but it most certainly is not true and the “feminists” that insist that a man do these things is obviously just using her “feminist” views to have special treatment given to her.

“Being a female teenager isn’t hard”. I take a little offense to that, seeing as I am just leaving my teens. Sure, being a parent/wife/adult is much harder than being a teenager but teens still have their own struggles and battles to fight and having a guy on Xbox Live giving them threats and sexual demands is not going to help anything.

ITT: Everyone disagrees with Crimson.

Not at all that I’m trying to be belligerent, but I personally think that the “dates should split the bill” idea is missing the point, and I honestly find the focus on that area of idea frustrating. It is completely true that women have a whole slew of cultural obstacles that should not be there in the first place, and that men never have to deal with, but those are obstacles that deal with gender representation, job opportunities, and other large-scale cultural issues. I don’t pay for a woman when we’re on a date because I think she’s weaker or less than me, I do it because I want to be nice and make her feel special, because the date is about getting to know her and make her feel like I’m interested in her. Any interpretation otherwise, whether correct or incorrect, is on an individual level, and I do take offense to the idea that I’m so engrained with the idea that women are less than me that I just do this stuff to feel good about myself.

I should probably mention now that I consider myself to be a masculinist.

Dec 02, 2012 at 05:54PM EST
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Crimson Locks wrote:

@Nikolaki: I only find the “Guys have it hard too, but you don’t hear us complaining” argument bullshit because it implies that women don’t have a right to complain when they are being treated unfairly when they most certainly do. Also, a true feminist would offer to split the tab and not expect a guy to hold a door open for her. My sister is one of the strongest (without being obnoxious) feminists you’ll meet, and she despises when a date insists on paying for the whole meal because she does not find it fair. Even I, who am not as strong a feminist, don’t like a date picking up the whole tab. I don’t know where you got this idea that feminists still expect themselves to be put above their men, but it most certainly is not true and the “feminists” that insist that a man do these things is obviously just using her “feminist” views to have special treatment given to her.

“Being a female teenager isn’t hard”. I take a little offense to that, seeing as I am just leaving my teens. Sure, being a parent/wife/adult is much harder than being a teenager but teens still have their own struggles and battles to fight and having a guy on Xbox Live giving them threats and sexual demands is not going to help anything.

I must admit, your sister sounds like the right kind of feminists. At my school I used to go to, we had the most obnoxious feminists you would ever meet. They literally went up to people’s houses and gave them flyers with words like, “Men Suck” or, “Feminism is the one True Religion” Just random, illiterate bullshit like that. After time, I guess I became biased about situations when involving feminists.

I am deeply sorry if I offend you, and I must say, you have changed my views on feminism. Thank-you.

Dec 03, 2012 at 01:52AM EST
I am deeply sorry if I offend you, and I must say, you have changed my views on feminism. Thank-you.

I actually convinced someone to see things my way on the internet?

But in all seriousness, you’re welcome. The feminists in your school sound absolutely horrible. They seemed to have forgotten that feminism is about gender equality, it’s not an excuse to hate the entire male gender just because they’re men.

Dec 03, 2012 at 11:46AM EST
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It’s good to see a intelligent discussion about feminism on the internet that doesn’t involve a bunch of sexist insults being thrown around.

Dec 03, 2012 at 12:09PM EST
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Teh Brawler wrote:

I personally think sexism, as well as any kind of prejudice in some form, will never be eliminated as a whole because it is impossible to have a 100% perspective on a group without being a part of that group. You can’t know what it’s like to be a woman without being a woman, for example. Therefore, some form of stereotype will always be present in people groups in regards to other groups.

However, it’s when prejudice impacts the social and cultural experiences of a people group as a whole that it becomes a real problem.

Er, considering that most discourses of sexism sprung from a western ideology and that several cultures worldwide had little to no problems with sex and gender until they came in contact with western civilizations, I’d say that it could be completely possible to do away with prejudices on a social scale, and, as a result, an individual scale. Will it take a while? Yes. A long-ass while. But that’s why discussing these issues are important otherwise the prejudices take new forms such as ironic sexism and colorblind ideology.

Dec 03, 2012 at 11:53PM EST
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Personally I think sexism is a one way street were yes women can be treated poorly but it has to be considered that there was a case were a man asked for a divorce so his wife cut off his penis and on T.V some women were laughing and one brought up the problem and was told “it’s different because its a man.”. So for equality is to work women have to be willing to give up these unfair advantages in court cases and the “it’s only wrong when men do it.”

Don’t get me wrong the idea is great but instead of idea better for ONLY women both sexes are treated equally. I just wanted to put that out there as it is a matter.

Relating to gaming: I don’t see restrictions to women developers if they want to be included and they have a passion then yes. Also with those gamers should be ashamed and i wish for more girl gamers. And those chain-mail scantily clad women are to attract the majority which is male gamers it will disappear if there are more female gamers and hopefully the sexism.

And maybe make me a sandwich and get back to the kitchen will finally be light hearted jokes as they should be.

Dec 05, 2012 at 06:12PM EST
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Teh Brawler wrote:

I personally think sexism, as well as any kind of prejudice in some form, will never be eliminated as a whole because it is impossible to have a 100% perspective on a group without being a part of that group. You can’t know what it’s like to be a woman without being a woman, for example. Therefore, some form of stereotype will always be present in people groups in regards to other groups.

However, it’s when prejudice impacts the social and cultural experiences of a people group as a whole that it becomes a real problem.

Also if you are a gender you haven’t experienced 100% of that gender’s life.

Dec 05, 2012 at 06:22PM EST

I never really got the problem with scantily clad women in games or women being damsels in distress. I guess it could be considered objectifying women, but should I be shamed for liking when a guy takes his shirt off because I’m “objectifying” him? I guess it’s all about perspective. As far as I’m concerned I really don’t care how many damsels are in games as long as I can get my badass female leads every once in a while too (like in Portal)

Dec 05, 2012 at 07:30PM EST
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IT’S GAMESPOT. THERE’S A DIFFERENCE.

Last edited Dec 05, 2012 at 09:01PM EST
Dec 05, 2012 at 09:01PM EST
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People overdramatize the need for feminism in society. Mostly feminists.

The above chart is a representation of the ratio of men vs. women. The red indicates a country with more women than men, the blue more men, and green generally the same.

Feminism in itself indicates that there is a fundamental difference between men and women besides sex, which is sexism. Feminism is going against the cause it is supposedly fighting for.

The idea that it is sexist for a developer to try to make a woman beautiful in videogames is saying that is is also sexist to make men look like this;

Feminism is hypocritical, feminism is disgusting.

Dec 05, 2012 at 11:36PM EST
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Crimson Locks wrote:

I never really got the problem with scantily clad women in games or women being damsels in distress. I guess it could be considered objectifying women, but should I be shamed for liking when a guy takes his shirt off because I’m “objectifying” him? I guess it’s all about perspective. As far as I’m concerned I really don’t care how many damsels are in games as long as I can get my badass female leads every once in a while too (like in Portal)

The problem with the whole “damsel in distress” thing is that that kind of role tends to be used so often, painting women as helpless people who need someone else to save them. Of course, this idea goes far back in western storytelling. I honestly don’t have too much of a problem with the whole “damsel in distress” mostly because it’s an incredibly nitpicky problem which usually only applies to white feminism.

And a woman objectifying a man is, for the most part, completely different from a man objectifying a woman mostly because of societal reinforcement. In several cases, when a man takes his shirt of in media, it is more of a male power fantasy. And, when the man is meant to be consumed sexually, it is usually after enough of their personality has been developed to the point where their character isn’t completely defined by their relationship to a female character and their primary purpose still isn’t sexual gratification of the audience. Compare this to most women in media, especially video games, who are supporting cast.

Dec 05, 2012 at 11:46PM EST
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Sneaky Bit wrote:

In several cases, when a man takes his shirt of in media, it is more of a male power fantasy. And, when the man is meant to be consumed sexually, it is usually after enough of their personality has been developed to the point where their character isn’t completely defined by their relationship to a female character and their primary purpose still isn’t sexual gratification of the audience.

So a male taking his shirt off in media is a male power fantasy and a woman taking her shirt off is objectifying. So only men can be sexist and women are pure angels? This is the logic behind feminism?

Jesus.

Last edited Dec 06, 2012 at 12:40AM EST
Dec 06, 2012 at 12:40AM EST
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Good video.

I’d praise Gamespot more but seriously, nothing they ever did before was radically different than most other gaming sites, unless I missed it.

Yeah, good video, fuck sexism. I’m sick of moronic males in game chat, groups, writing the story lines, and developing the games. GTFO, apemen.

Dec 06, 2012 at 05:14AM EST
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The problem I’ve always had with Feminism is the name itself. While the movement was about equal right between sexes, having a name, which includes the “feminine,” still makes the views of an organization biased towards women’s requests. Such a movement that was about equal rights should never have been named something that automatically favors one side or the other. It just isn’t consistent. It feeds into different sides playing the victim, when in the long run, it distracts from tackling larger issues. Even more so, it can open people’s interpretations of the word “Feminism” to be an inaccurate, and often, elitist view. These elitist views can even harbor irrational hatred towards the opposite sex, if left unchecked.

Also… inb4 Equalism (which is a much better term for what Feminism was supposed to stand for.)

Last edited Dec 06, 2012 at 01:39PM EST
Dec 06, 2012 at 01:34PM EST

I never saw it as sexist when it’s a princess being captured, or when a baby-faced man comes to save her, or when it’s a big, burly bully of a man who captures her.

No, I just saw characters. I saw them as “identifiers”. Their traits exist for the common person to say, “Hey, I can identify with that.”

In fact, I kind of get insulted when a character DOESN’T follow many social guidelines. I have nothing to identify them with in my head.

Of course, I’m thinking more in the minds of filmmakers. That’s mostly the world I reside in. To be honest, I could care less about the real world. People fight too much there.

Dec 06, 2012 at 05:18PM EST
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@Taryn >implying number of women is negatively correlated to level of sexism


Feminism is the belief that women should be treated as equal to and given the same rights as men. Not exactly hypocritical in any way if you ask me. I smell a straw man.

And yeah, it’s not wrong to depict women as attractive in games… to an extent. I’d prefer that there’s some moderation. Breasts do not need to be the size of beach balls or anything even remotely close to that in size.

Dec 06, 2012 at 08:44PM EST
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And yeah, it’s not wrong to depict women as attractive in games… to an extent. I’d prefer that there’s some moderation. Breasts do not need to be the size of beach balls or anything even remotely close to that in size.

So artistic representation or stylization of the female body is wrong? Why are you implying that women like this do not exist in the first place?

Believing that the sexualization of breasts are “sexist” is like saying the sexualization of an erection is “sexist”. Both are parts of anatomy in a single sex and both are commonly characterized in real life. Breasts are not women, dicks are not men.

Last edited Dec 06, 2012 at 09:08PM EST
Dec 06, 2012 at 09:07PM EST
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Taryn wrote:

So only men can be sexist and women are pure angels? This is the logic behind feminism?
Jesus.

I never said or implied that and you are a moron for several reasons.

ZillieZephyr wrote:


The problem I’ve always had with Feminism is the name itself. While the movement was about equal right between sexes, having a name, which includes the “feminine,” still makes the views of an organization biased towards women’s requests. Such a movement that was about equal rights should never have been named something that automatically favors one side or the other. It just isn’t consistent. It feeds into different sides playing the victim, when in the long run, it distracts from tackling larger issues. Even more so, it can open people’s interpretations of the word “Feminism” to be an inaccurate, and often, elitist view. These elitist views can even harbor irrational hatred towards the opposite sex, if left unchecked.

Er, but the idea of feminism is to put women on the same level of men, thus “feminism”. Because femininity is reacted to negatively more often than masculinity is reacted to negatively. Because feminine traits in a man are usually discouraged more often than masculine traits in a woman. Are there problems on the mens side of things in regards to feminism? Yes. There are. But all those problems arise as a part of a society that values certain male traits over others and they are, in fact, discussed in in regards to in modern feminism.

Are there problems within the realm of feminism? Yes, there are, but none of them are meant to tear down men or ignore the problems men as a whole face. In fact, most of the problems in modern feminism come from a failure to intersect with the pro-LGBTQ movements and anti-racism movements.

Last edited Dec 06, 2012 at 09:24PM EST
Dec 06, 2012 at 09:24PM EST
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I never said or implied that and you are a moron for several reasons.

That response was so legitimate and dignified I almost shit my pants.

Dec 06, 2012 at 10:20PM EST
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That response was so legitimate and dignified I almost shit my pants.

Scratch that, I read it again and shit my pants.

Dec 06, 2012 at 10:21PM EST
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Surprise Bit wrote:

Taryn wrote:

So only men can be sexist and women are pure angels? This is the logic behind feminism?
Jesus.

I never said or implied that and you are a moron for several reasons.

ZillieZephyr wrote:


The problem I’ve always had with Feminism is the name itself. While the movement was about equal right between sexes, having a name, which includes the “feminine,” still makes the views of an organization biased towards women’s requests. Such a movement that was about equal rights should never have been named something that automatically favors one side or the other. It just isn’t consistent. It feeds into different sides playing the victim, when in the long run, it distracts from tackling larger issues. Even more so, it can open people’s interpretations of the word “Feminism” to be an inaccurate, and often, elitist view. These elitist views can even harbor irrational hatred towards the opposite sex, if left unchecked.

Er, but the idea of feminism is to put women on the same level of men, thus “feminism”. Because femininity is reacted to negatively more often than masculinity is reacted to negatively. Because feminine traits in a man are usually discouraged more often than masculine traits in a woman. Are there problems on the mens side of things in regards to feminism? Yes. There are. But all those problems arise as a part of a society that values certain male traits over others and they are, in fact, discussed in in regards to in modern feminism.

Are there problems within the realm of feminism? Yes, there are, but none of them are meant to tear down men or ignore the problems men as a whole face. In fact, most of the problems in modern feminism come from a failure to intersect with the pro-LGBTQ movements and anti-racism movements.

You missed my point entirely. All I’m saying is that it shouldn’t even be called “feminism.” but rather “Equalism” if that is the actual goal of the feminist movement.
Hell, if it were simply called that, we wouldn’t need so many different groups that stand for equal rights. Equalism would cover all topics and be a massive movement that could actually do some good in the world. It’s fun to dream…

Last edited Dec 06, 2012 at 10:38PM EST
Dec 06, 2012 at 10:32PM EST

Surprise Bit wrote:

Er, considering that most discourses of sexism sprung from a western ideology and that several cultures worldwide had little to no problems with sex and gender until they came in contact with western civilizations, I’d say that it could be completely possible to do away with prejudices on a social scale, and, as a result, an individual scale. Will it take a while? Yes. A long-ass while. But that’s why discussing these issues are important otherwise the prejudices take new forms such as ironic sexism and colorblind ideology.

“Er, considering that most discourses of sexism sprung from a western ideology and that several cultures worldwide had little to no problems with sex and gender until they came in contact with western civilizations,”

What defines a problem is almost impossible to answer, but I’m sure you will find that every recorded culture had distinct lines between the male and female genders, be that Patriarchal or Matriarchal, in which sexist ideologies developed.

Dec 06, 2012 at 10:35PM EST
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Cale wrote:

“Er, considering that most discourses of sexism sprung from a western ideology and that several cultures worldwide had little to no problems with sex and gender until they came in contact with western civilizations,”

What defines a problem is almost impossible to answer, but I’m sure you will find that every recorded culture had distinct lines between the male and female genders, be that Patriarchal or Matriarchal, in which sexist ideologies developed.

Distinct lines, yes. However, that doesn’t mean that one gender was automatically better in most regards than the other. There are a lot of pre-imperialist civilizations in which despite a distinction between genders, one wasn’t necessarily held above the other within their societies.This was the case in Egypt where women not only given the same legal rights as men, such as running business and owning property, but even rule. And these ideals that Egypt had were actually pulled from other older African civilizations. Similar holds true for several East Asian civilizations and the civilizations of many indigenous Americans. Most of these societies went through drastic changes in these regards after contact with western civilization, which a lot of modern feminism tends to forget when criticizing how women are treated worldwide.

Dec 06, 2012 at 11:12PM EST
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ZillieZephyr wrote:

You missed my point entirely. All I’m saying is that it shouldn’t even be called “feminism.” but rather “Equalism” if that is the actual goal of the feminist movement.
Hell, if it were simply called that, we wouldn’t need so many different groups that stand for equal rights. Equalism would cover all topics and be a massive movement that could actually do some good in the world. It’s fun to dream…

The reason why there are so many different groups for equal rights is because unless you’re in that group, you don’t always have a good view of the situation. A great example of this is the “It Gets Better” movement, which, despite promoting a pro-gay message, fails miserably on the spectrum of race, gender, and transgender issues. The last one is even more terrible when you take into consideration that the LGBTQ movement actually tends to forget about trans people in general despite the “T” standing for “trans”. This is why I, as a man, am still prone to fucking up entirely when it comes to discussing sexism because, while I am well read on feminist theory, I do not have the knowledge of what it feels like to be discriminated against in society solely because of my gender. I do, however, have knowledge on what it’s like to be discriminated against because of my race.

Also, you’re somewhat implying that feminism, pro-LGBTQ, and anti-racism movements by themselves aren’t doing some good in the world. Tsk tsk.

Dec 06, 2012 at 11:28PM EST
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Taryn wrote:

And yeah, it’s not wrong to depict women as attractive in games… to an extent. I’d prefer that there’s some moderation. Breasts do not need to be the size of beach balls or anything even remotely close to that in size.

So artistic representation or stylization of the female body is wrong? Why are you implying that women like this do not exist in the first place?

Believing that the sexualization of breasts are “sexist” is like saying the sexualization of an erection is “sexist”. Both are parts of anatomy in a single sex and both are commonly characterized in real life. Breasts are not women, dicks are not men.

Nah, I’m saying that it’s a bit much to OVERsexualize a woman. It’s a very boring and expected way of generating interest for a character. Nothing necessarily inherently wrong with it, but come on. A good example would be (fanboy inbound) Bioshock: Infinite’s representation of its character Elizabeth:



A low-cut corset. I’d like to think (Or hope) that there is more to this character than breasts, but that is all that most people seem to focus on when it comes to her character. They might’ve tweaked the model to be a little more modest in the few months of development since those gameplay trailers. (Hopefully.)

This is getting into opinion obviously, (What thread doesn’t?) but my favourite depiction of a woman/girl in a game is almost completely desexualized:



Ico fanboy, reporting for duty.

Dec 07, 2012 at 01:19AM EST
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Surprise Bit wrote:

Distinct lines, yes. However, that doesn’t mean that one gender was automatically better in most regards than the other. There are a lot of pre-imperialist civilizations in which despite a distinction between genders, one wasn’t necessarily held above the other within their societies.This was the case in Egypt where women not only given the same legal rights as men, such as running business and owning property, but even rule. And these ideals that Egypt had were actually pulled from other older African civilizations. Similar holds true for several East Asian civilizations and the civilizations of many indigenous Americans. Most of these societies went through drastic changes in these regards after contact with western civilization, which a lot of modern feminism tends to forget when criticizing how women are treated worldwide.

Laws aren’t really relevant in this case.

Dec 07, 2012 at 04:57PM EST
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Surprise Bit wrote:

The reason why there are so many different groups for equal rights is because unless you’re in that group, you don’t always have a good view of the situation. A great example of this is the “It Gets Better” movement, which, despite promoting a pro-gay message, fails miserably on the spectrum of race, gender, and transgender issues. The last one is even more terrible when you take into consideration that the LGBTQ movement actually tends to forget about trans people in general despite the “T” standing for “trans”. This is why I, as a man, am still prone to fucking up entirely when it comes to discussing sexism because, while I am well read on feminist theory, I do not have the knowledge of what it feels like to be discriminated against in society solely because of my gender. I do, however, have knowledge on what it’s like to be discriminated against because of my race.

Also, you’re somewhat implying that feminism, pro-LGBTQ, and anti-racism movements by themselves aren’t doing some good in the world. Tsk tsk.

First of all, I’m gay. So I know about the discrimination amongst Transgender people. (They also prefere NOT to be called “trans,” man.)

Secondly, I’m not saying they’re not doing anything good in the world. I’m saying their not doing enough.

Dec 07, 2012 at 05:20PM EST

Cale wrote:

Laws aren’t really relevant in this case.

How are laws not relevant in a conversation about gender and sexism throughout different time periods and civilization since laws are actually a pretty important part of society?

If we were still talking about video games and sexism, yeah, not as relevant. However, your earlier response to me was in reaction to what I said about gender roles and sexism in ancient civilizations before contact with western civilization.

Dec 07, 2012 at 05:31PM EST
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ZillieZephyr wrote:

First of all, I’m gay. So I know about the discrimination amongst Transgender people. (They also prefere NOT to be called “trans,” man.)

Secondly, I’m not saying they’re not doing anything good in the world. I’m saying their not doing enough.

Okay, I have to nitpick here.

“First of all, I’m gay. So I know about the discrimination amongst Transgender people.”

First of all, a lot of us are. Second, unless you’re also Transgender, I don’t see how being gay makes you understand being transgender.

“(They also prefere NOT to be called “trans,” man.)”

That’s generalizing, and really isn’t correct.

Dec 07, 2012 at 08:03PM EST
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If an actual transgender person wanted me to stop saying “trans” in reference to transgender, then I would. So far, I have not met such a person.

Dec 07, 2012 at 09:24PM EST
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Cale wrote:

Okay, I have to nitpick here.

“First of all, I’m gay. So I know about the discrimination amongst Transgender people.”

First of all, a lot of us are. Second, unless you’re also Transgender, I don’t see how being gay makes you understand being transgender.

“(They also prefere NOT to be called “trans,” man.)”

That’s generalizing, and really isn’t correct.

I have friends who are transgender, so I have a lot of sympathy towards them. Homosexuals have it easy compared to them, who have even less of a choice as to why they are the way they are. Even more so, psychologists and sociologists (among others, as well) simply aren’t interested in figuring out why we’re different, without some sort of bias, within studies.

And I’m saying “I know” because I’m involved in support for the groups for LGBTQ individuals. I’ve listened to a lot of stories. I know that transgendered AND bisexual people are discriminated against (even ostracized) because many people fail to understand that the complexity of the human brain can’t be fully fathomed. Some have even gone as saying that any transgendered and bisexual people are both indecisive and unstable, which is horribly cruel to people who come looking for help.

Sorry I didn’t specify, but it’s not relevant and we’re getting horribly derailed.
Dec 08, 2012 at 12:12AM EST
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