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Pro versus Anti Brony: the Acountancing

Last posted Dec 18, 2012 at 11:55PM EST. Added Dec 10, 2012 at 11:52PM EST
99 posts from 59 users

It’s interesting how a “fandom” is so much bigger than just being a fan. I like Adventure Time, Pokemon, Zelda, and Green Lantern, but I’m not “in those fandoms”.

Being a Brony is my first experience with “fandom”, and there’s some weird stuff associated with that. Drama, bad fanfics, headcanon, fansites, conventions and panels. That can be good and bad. People say this is part of every fandom, but I just have to take their word for it.

I’m a Brony because I like ponies: I like to discuss new episodes, learn about the creators, draw in my spare time, play pony games, etc. I keep up to date on pony news.

But I don’t think of the Bronies as my family. I don’t think more of someone if they’re a Brony, or less of them if not. If the fandom fades, so be it. My identity doesn’t ride on Bronydom.

THAT SAID, MLP needs the Bronies. If there were no internet groups that promote, extol, and discuss Adventure Time, I’d still watch it. Not so for MLP. I’d never have watched it except that there were already hordes of people who said that it was actually great, and that I wouldn’t be alone in liking it. While Bronies can be cool or VERY UNCOOL, I’ll always owe the fandom something for introducing me to the ponies and their magical friendship.

Last edited Dec 11, 2012 at 09:39PM EST
Dec 11, 2012 at 09:36PM EST
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Fridge wrote:

I’ve felt something of a separation with bronies in the last year. I used to be very active, at least on this site, but something changed within the culture that caused me to move away.

There was an excellent article from the Daily Dot called 5 signs of a fading fandom and why bronies fit the bill that came out around October. I wrote a blog post about it wherein I described my feelings on the fandom in depth, and to summarize, I surmised that they (the bronies) had lost the values they had organized themselves around, and put out the so-called “Derpygate” as the point where this disillusionment with “love and tolerance” had begun to affect the the fandom’s ethos on a vast scale. To have something as significant as Derpy’s voice given and taken away was jarring, and definitely triggered negative feelings.

Like many of you, I still love the show, and watch it whenever I can. But I generally avoid self-proclaimed “bronies,” on the Internet and especially in real life (yes, I’ve seen them, and they are a very strange animal). Thus I would say that I am decidedly anti-brony. Sorry folks.

That article was posted on the Pony General thread. I’m guessing you didn’t see all the posts that pointed out 5 obvious signs why the author of the article had no freaking clue what he was talking about.

For starters, the fandom has not lost any values because we still do exactly what we did before: create fan works. That’s what we do and it’s what we’ve always done. Notice that loving and tolerating is not one of those values.

Complaining that we don’t love and tolerate is an irritatingly shallow point. It’s not our philosophy and never was. The whole thing was just a joke on 4chan. In fact you can’t expect anyone to unconditionally love and tolerate. That is not a human thing to do. We’re not holy angels, we cannot suppress our hate and intolerance. People who criticize us for not loving and tolerating are just looking for excuses to be assholes to us without repercussion. Either that or they are people who are deluded into thinking you can have a world where everyone is happy and smiling. But we have every right to express all our emotions

Also the Fandom has moved on since Derpgate and in retrospect, it’s not a jarring tragic loss on our part at all. We still do what we do despite that incident. Why even bring it up?

Dec 11, 2012 at 10:44PM EST
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I neither consider myself a brony nor anti-brony. In fact, both sides of the arguments have a lot of issues

Bronies
Bronies have people who literally spam ponies everywhere. You know this song by Pendulum called Out Here:

I found this while listening to pandora and I enjoyed it a lot. Usually when this happens, I go and visit the comments section. I expected there to be serious talk about the song…guess what I found instead:

http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=5mM_mdow8_E

Apparently, some brony of the sick kind made a disgusting porn vid of Rainbow Dash and Gilda and used this music. They literally invaded the video as a result saying “ponies brought me here” Here’s a comment left a few days ago on the vid

“Twilight Sparkle found a…?
(Obvious .)”

The song has nothing to do with Twilight Sparkle, yet he (or she) spammed it on the page. I was annoyed with what I saw. And that’s the problem. They’ve also time by time managed to invade the comment sections of videos for Offspring’s “You’re Gonna Go Far, Kid” (which BTW, was what ended up leading me to KYM to learn about what was going on and study subcultures like this one which at that time I underestimated in size and power). This has been an issue. Every fanbase is gonna have people who do these disgusting stuff, but because of the heavy size of the fanbase, these collisions happen very frequently.

Of course that doesn’t make anti-bronies any worse..

Anti-bronies

It’s pretty much the opposite here…hate hate hate (there are some that are just pure haters). There are haters that walk right into pony lairs and start hating mindlessly. Look at that guy that ruined that mural painting that a few skilled bronies did:

Remember this? It was frontpaged here before. I know the whole “autism” thing came from 4chan (and some /mlp/ers use it as a joke (or iq reducing crap if you seen the thread simulators)) but this took a lot of work only to have one idiot with no life vandalize it? And the biggest part about it is…why bother with the hate. In the time it takes to rage and devote hate towards ANYTHING in general, you could have found something much better and interesting. This is why I don’t have a huge anti-stance against Justin Bieber…I don’t know anything he’s done so how can I personally hate him when all I care bout is finding stuff I like.

So yeah…the best choice here is to remain neutral. I’ll admit, I blow up when I approach dark sides of fandom (ever seen that SFM clip of two Twilight Sparkles kissing each other…yeah…that area), but I always look at the positive side of most fandoms. And every fandom will have smart people (Saberspark’s commentary helped me understand a lot more about the community and I’m much more positive towards bronies than before).

So yeah, TL;DR…but I needed to explain it.

Dec 11, 2012 at 11:12PM EST
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I enjoy the community now more than the past.
They’ve been not spreading ponies more than the outbreak so I enjoy what is now. As a neutral I do not love or hate ponies although the latter I did when it all started.

So, ponies are great to see once in a while but I do not watch the show itself.

Dec 12, 2012 at 01:09AM EST
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@maPINESS (Don’t want to quote due to text wall)
1) Just tried to say your name. mah-pine-iss, mah-pines, mah-pine-ses?
2) Yeah buddy, Pendulum. I’ve been listening to them for two and some years, they make nice music.

@Thread
I’ve seen very few clips of MLP, and no full episodes. I really can’t form an opinion on the show’s content, since I haven’t seen it before. Honestly, it just doesn’t interest me. As for the fans, I have never been offended by someone being a brony, but I do find some posts about it annoying when a user embeds a pony picture with a poor connection to the topic. So, that’s it. I don’t like shit posts about anything.

Dec 12, 2012 at 01:17AM EST
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Disturbed B wrote:

I do call myself a brony, it’s in my name, but I don’t really act like one. How is a brony supposed to act? Well, I do watch the show, but that’s about it. I like looking at artwork, watching videos, and I’ve even made a few PMVs myself. Still, when I think of a brony, I imagine someone who buys pony merchandise, wears pony t-shirts, quotes the show anytime he can, and talks about the show with anyone he meets. I don’t do any of that. The few bronies I’ve met IRL seem like nice people. The bronies on the internet seem friendly (at least the ones on this website). There are some weird people in the famdom, then again, there are weird people everywhere. I’m going to say that I support the bronies.

There’s no set guideline on what makes you a “Brony”…or a “Trekkie” or a Star Wars nerd or anything like that.

If you want to call yourself a Brony, then you’re a brony. If you don’t consider yourself a brony, you’re not a brony even if you watch the show, buy pony merchandise and quote the show as much as you want. Everyone is free to label themselves as they like.

For example, I consider myself a Star Wars nerd. What do I have to prove it? I err….. have the six movies on DVD, watch media relating to Star Wars ( Ie Clone Wars cartoon), Play Star Wars Vidya….and..that’s pretty much it.

I don’t quote Yoda, I don’t have any Star Wars merchandise besides the aforementioned media, I don’t masturbate to Slave Leia and I don’t go to conventions dressed as a Storm Trooper (if only because being part of the 501st is so hard :( )

Similarly, I do nothing related to ponies but watch the episodes, post about ponies on KYM, read some fanfiction/look at art and have a couple of pony avatars. That’s pretty much it. No merchandise, no conventions or anything yet I consider myself a brony.

So tl;dr: Do what you wish and call yourself what you wish, there’s no supreme ruleset goin on here.


Oh….and I guess I’m for bronies.

Dec 12, 2012 at 07:34AM EST
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Blue Screen (of Death) wrote:

That article was posted on the Pony General thread. I’m guessing you didn’t see all the posts that pointed out 5 obvious signs why the author of the article had no freaking clue what he was talking about.

For starters, the fandom has not lost any values because we still do exactly what we did before: create fan works. That’s what we do and it’s what we’ve always done. Notice that loving and tolerating is not one of those values.

Complaining that we don’t love and tolerate is an irritatingly shallow point. It’s not our philosophy and never was. The whole thing was just a joke on 4chan. In fact you can’t expect anyone to unconditionally love and tolerate. That is not a human thing to do. We’re not holy angels, we cannot suppress our hate and intolerance. People who criticize us for not loving and tolerating are just looking for excuses to be assholes to us without repercussion. Either that or they are people who are deluded into thinking you can have a world where everyone is happy and smiling. But we have every right to express all our emotions

Also the Fandom has moved on since Derpgate and in retrospect, it’s not a jarring tragic loss on our part at all. We still do what we do despite that incident. Why even bring it up?

Sounds like someone wasn’t around in the MLP fandom circa 2010. Love and Tolerance was a real thing then. It lasted for about 4 months, and was very successful in retrospect; fending off trolls and drawing new converts. After 4 months it died because people got fed up with being the bigger person. I remember that when that happened a lot of bronies got fed up with the fandom and left.

What Fridge is talking about is that he is disappointing with the community moving away from its original values. For him, the best example of how different the MLP fandom is from 2010 is Derpygate and the fan reaction. For a lot of people MLP used to be something more than fanworks: A community, a shared set of ideals, etc. Now the shared set of ideals is fading from the collective mindset due to time and a culmination of smaller incidents, and as a result the community is weakening a bit.

It really is a shame because MLP showed us how large and influential a fandom could get. It’s like a real world culture arose on the internet. But, seeing as the internet is a strictly for-fun venture, it couldn’t last.

Dec 12, 2012 at 07:50AM EST
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I was in the fandom very early in 2011, while still in the middle of season 1.

All I recall on /co/ was Rule 34 and Scootabuse. Literally. My first interaction in an MLP General thread was asking an artist for a picture of Scootaloo and he gave me Scootabuse.

Dec 12, 2012 at 08:33AM EST
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MDFification wrote:

Sounds like someone wasn’t around in the MLP fandom circa 2010. Love and Tolerance was a real thing then. It lasted for about 4 months, and was very successful in retrospect; fending off trolls and drawing new converts. After 4 months it died because people got fed up with being the bigger person. I remember that when that happened a lot of bronies got fed up with the fandom and left.

What Fridge is talking about is that he is disappointing with the community moving away from its original values. For him, the best example of how different the MLP fandom is from 2010 is Derpygate and the fan reaction. For a lot of people MLP used to be something more than fanworks: A community, a shared set of ideals, etc. Now the shared set of ideals is fading from the collective mindset due to time and a culmination of smaller incidents, and as a result the community is weakening a bit.

It really is a shame because MLP showed us how large and influential a fandom could get. It’s like a real world culture arose on the internet. But, seeing as the internet is a strictly for-fun venture, it couldn’t last.

…set ideals…
..values…

I joined this fandom with ONE set of ideals that I expect of all fellow members: Liking ponies.

Last I checked, members of the fandom here, on Reddit, on Equestira Daily and even on 4chan still like ponies.

That’s the ideal that didn’t fade away, everything else is just a meme (not in the internet sense).
Everything else “fading” didn’t stop me from liking ponies.

I like ponies, if “bronies” supply me with more cute ponies then I’m content, if “haters” and “non-bronies” also did that, then I’m also content.

The show might end, and in 5 years from now I might stumble upon a pony pic, I will still think it’s “cute” or “nice”.

And yes Derpygate did give us our share of Drama, and it’s still ongoing with the release of season 3 and still not a single “Where’s Waldo” appearance of Derpy, I can see from /mlp/ threads that another explosion is imminent.

As for my stance: if “brony” is the go-to term for someone who likes ponies, then I’m all For bronies, dedicating some much hate against people who enjoy a cartoon is weird, it’s just innocent fun.

If it means this “Love and Tolerate” inner joke that spread out of control, or this “ponies saved my life”, or the un-ironic >no hooves then I’m neutral bordering on anti-brony

From the start of this whole thing, the definition of the term “brony” changed, the fandom changed.
But the term “pony” didn’t change, and with it my stance remains unchanged.
For Pony

ugh cloppers. also /mlp/ ftw

Dec 12, 2012 at 12:05PM EST
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Well, I’ve always had mixed feelings about bronies. On one hand, the can make some damn good fan work, but on the other hand, they can be over overzealous, whiny, and sometimes creepy. My opinion has swayed more to the negative spectrum lately. I don’t hate them by any means though.

@serious buisness

My Little Pony does not need bronies. MLP managed to become one of the most easily recognizable toy brands on the planet without bronies. Hell, before mlp:fim came out, I’m sure most of us knew the tune to the original. Bronies are nowhere close to being the main demographic. Even without bronies, my little pony would still be selling like hotcakes. It’s actually shows like adventure time and korra that rely on the fans more because they live and die by ratings, my little pony has a massive empire of merchendise to support it.

Last edited Dec 12, 2012 at 12:13PM EST
Dec 12, 2012 at 12:11PM EST
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Just thought I should clarify: I don’t hate ponies. I’m just trying to counter the posts claiming Love and Tolerance never existed and MLP is targeted more than other groups without any (I didn’t say they’re all warranted, but at the very least quite a few of them are understandable) grounds because they’re inaccurate.

My actual feeling on MLP is that I really don’t care unless you’re spamming it everywhere. If something isn’t about ponies, don’t try to make it about ponies. Still, it is at worst an annoyance. Nothing worth blowing a gasket over.
Obsessive behavior over all creeps me out, so when bronies exhibit that I get creeped out. Nothing against the group, just those individuals. I find they’re a pretty sizeable bunch but we’re talking about my subjective feelings, so I’m not going to try and disprove “It’s a few individuals making us look bad”. I’d estimate that it’s around 1/4 of the population at most.

Dec 12, 2012 at 12:33PM EST
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Dac wrote:

Hell, before mlp:fim came out, I’m sure most of us knew the tune to the original.

Really?

I barely remember the theme tune to 80s cartoons that I liked much less cartoons I’ve never watched.

Last edited Dec 12, 2012 at 02:43PM EST
Dec 12, 2012 at 02:43PM EST
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@phoenix
Yeah, The “my little pony, my little pony…” part is pretty well known. But I was just trying to say that even before mlp:fim, mlp was very well known.

Dec 12, 2012 at 03:09PM EST
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What, no neutral area?

I used to identify myself as a brony, but I no longer care. The bad aspects of the fandom turned me off, and I have other areas of my life that are far more important. I like the show, but not enough to be in the fandom for it.

I don’t dislike bronies, but I’m not going to vouch for them, either. I am simply a separated spectator now.

Dec 12, 2012 at 03:32PM EST
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Oh Lord, an intelligent discussion. That must mean I have to launch into a personal narrative about my opinion and why I feel that way in order to get a definite point across.

Frequent visitors to KYM know that I’m a brony, however I’ll probably deny it if you were to somehow track me down in public and pull a video camera out.
Why? Because this fandom is populated by extremists. They eventually become the definition for the general public since the cameras are normally turned towards the conventions and gatherings where the hordes of bronies, tainted and untainted, assemble from the dimmer corners of the Web.

I’m going to recycle a quote that I used for my first forum post here on KYM about the course of the fandom so far: “Those in the show’s production have embraced it, what the media has said about us hasn’t set us up for any public stonings, and as far as I can tell most of you have come to tolerate [the dark side of the fandom] and haven’t torn each other apart over it. Yet.”

By no means am I going to become a martyr for the majority or seperate myself from the crowds altogether, but rather talk about the show casually on my own little island while occasionally shouting “SO, DID YOU GUYS LIKE THE NEW EPISODE TODAY?” from a megaphone towards everyone else more involved in the fandom than I am.

I’m not supposed to dictate how other people should enjoy a similar interest that I have, either. That’s like telling a professional bowler to start aiming for the gutters because that’s what ends up happening to me, because not only does the suggestion sound silly, it prevents (squee)loads of trouble in the long run.

Last edited Dec 12, 2012 at 03:48PM EST
Dec 12, 2012 at 03:45PM EST
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Obsessive behaviour always creeps out and it doesn’t matter if it’s about sports, celebrities, shows or pony. As soon as you start centering your life around a hobby or avocation, you head for strange mannerism that do not look rational anymore. Ponies are no exception here.

The strange thing about MLP is, that the show is highly immersive. Well the first time I tried to watch it, I stopped right at the title song, which worked as a full on repellent. The cold opening wasn’t good as well, so I didn’t think about watching it furthermore. Half a year later I came across a well done brony vid and clicked on a related video of a random MLP episode and gave it a second chance.
After watching about three episodes you don’t even see anymore that the show is about ponies. If you take away the ponybodies, just leave the characters and scratch the equestrian background, you will see that the show is about six friends in their twenties that have left their childhood home. Some work, some study, but they are all struggling to find their places in life. And guess who is attracted by this…some guys far away from the intended target demographic, calling themselves bronies;)

Those guys don’t really understand why they watch it unironically, why they love the show and why they got hooked to something so colourful and bright. They think that there might be something wrong with them, they want to talk about it reassuring that everything is right and look if they are others out there. They will find the ponyhubs fast, see Equestria Daily and be amazed, that they are not only alone, but that there are people, who do show their love by creating fanworks.

And now I am coming to the Dopefish. I am right now writing a little KYM article about him and did some research. I searched for fanworks, crossovers and such, but the only fandom that has ever incooperated the Dopefish in their works are the bronys. The Dopefish is old, he was created in 1991 and has managed to stay a video game meme till now. There are lots and lots of different fandoms out there, they all could have done crossovers and such, but it never happened.
And then you realize that ponies are different. There is something that drives bronies to create fanworks, that makes them want to learn new skills, to draw and to write, to animate and to talk about a show. Just do some stuff they haven’t done before. All to express their love for pones.

Pro Pony

Last edited Dec 12, 2012 at 03:51PM EST
Dec 12, 2012 at 03:46PM EST
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Teh Brawler wrote:

What, no neutral area?

I used to identify myself as a brony, but I no longer care. The bad aspects of the fandom turned me off, and I have other areas of my life that are far more important. I like the show, but not enough to be in the fandom for it.

I don’t dislike bronies, but I’m not going to vouch for them, either. I am simply a separated spectator now.

This actually sums up how I feel, I’ll go with this actually. Only two things, I never considerd myself a brony and I got tired of the show.

Dec 12, 2012 at 04:11PM EST
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MDFification wrote:

Sounds like someone wasn’t around in the MLP fandom circa 2010. Love and Tolerance was a real thing then. It lasted for about 4 months, and was very successful in retrospect; fending off trolls and drawing new converts. After 4 months it died because people got fed up with being the bigger person. I remember that when that happened a lot of bronies got fed up with the fandom and left.

What Fridge is talking about is that he is disappointing with the community moving away from its original values. For him, the best example of how different the MLP fandom is from 2010 is Derpygate and the fan reaction. For a lot of people MLP used to be something more than fanworks: A community, a shared set of ideals, etc. Now the shared set of ideals is fading from the collective mindset due to time and a culmination of smaller incidents, and as a result the community is weakening a bit.

It really is a shame because MLP showed us how large and influential a fandom could get. It’s like a real world culture arose on the internet. But, seeing as the internet is a strictly for-fun venture, it couldn’t last.

I got into the fandom early 2011. Although “Love and tolerate” had a bigger presence in the fandom back then, I can confirm it was never a must. “Love and tolerate” was just an idea the fans took from the show, to make the fandom appear welcoming. But do you really think fans were shunned back then for saying a naughty word?

Love and toleration was never a goal, more an excuse, a bad attempt to keep the more vocal bronies at bay so to say. It was a community, and the thing they all still shared was liking ponies, that one thing never changed. Being a fandom revolves around having a shared liking on a certain show or subject, not about following a set of guidelines and rules.

Similar to the vocal aggressive bronies, vocal “true” bronies were also a small group. But as they were more vocal in their believes of love and tolerate, they just managed to stood out more. Like before, the proportion of “true” fans works the same as with the more aggressive ones.

And how do you expect bronies to stick to their ideals from 2 years ago? Fandoms change, evolve, adapt, they never stay the same. The Homestuck fandom originally was just about the 4 kids, now it has the whole set of trolls and others, and the fans have adapted to this in their fanworks.

Plus I find “weakening” an incorrect word, a rather go with “changed”. In the earliest days the main source of brony activity was still restricted to the internet, now conventions have become a common thing. The creators interact a lot more with the fans, and even try to appeal to them at times.

And sure, there will be a time that the brony fandom will die out, to return to a small dedicated group no bigger nor smaller than trekkies or Pokemon fans are nowadays. But the fandom is constantly changing, and I don’t see any signs of death in the near future. They’re still making new episodes, and I doubt this season is the last.

So a related question I ask you now: What do you think happened to the Homestuck fandom over the years? What will happen when the final page will be uploaded and the comic is over?


P.S. I don’t see myself as a “brony” for a long time anymore. I don’t hate the fandom or anything, flaws will remain forever and I deal with them (you should try, it’s not that hard), the show and content itself just lost its touch. Like a lot of things, I still love to interact with it, but I won’t call myself dedicated.

Last edited Dec 12, 2012 at 05:35PM EST
Dec 12, 2012 at 05:22PM EST
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I still say there is a difference between a brony and a ponyfag. I still say I’m a ponyfag, /b/Tard, weaboo, furry, neckbeard, cat lover and not afraid of anything. So that makes me anti brony.

@phoneix
I masterbated to Jabba not slave Lea

Dec 12, 2012 at 06:41PM EST
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I tried watching the show, and to be honest, I had no problem with it. It was well written and everything, but it wasn’t a funny as I had expected. My friend is a brony, and he’s always laughing at episodes he watches on his Ipod Touch. I just don’t understand how it’s funny.

Dec 12, 2012 at 07:12PM EST
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Le Bumpkin wrote:

I tried watching the show, and to be honest, I had no problem with it. It was well written and everything, but it wasn’t a funny as I had expected. My friend is a brony, and he’s always laughing at episodes he watches on his Ipod Touch. I just don’t understand how it’s funny.

I don’t find the show laugh out loud funny either. I think the only reason I would laugh at that show is if something amazingly adorable happened.

Dec 12, 2012 at 07:44PM EST
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I want to add a little more to the conversation. It seems a lot of people get turned by the bad side of the fanbase. The truth is, every fanbase has it’s great and dark sides. The problem is that it depends on two things
*Size of the fanbase
*Spread of the fanbase.

Some fandoms are just restricted to few areas and you don’t really see outside of that area (Earthbound, Doctor Who). Other fandoms can spread to a lot areas and you end up seeing them everywhere (MLP being the one in question falls under this category). Older fandoms tend to be everywhere, but very scattered and thin to the point that they aren’t really that annoying. MLP:FIM however is spreading very fast and in large numbers, which is why you see a lot of the negative reception from people who do not like it.

And because MLP is growing fast and spreading across the internet like wildfire, the bad areas are easy to identify right off the bat, even if it just encompasses 5% of the fanbase, that 5% is so big and vocal that it’s more than enough to cause a negative image to those who are either trying to get away with it, or even some within the fanbase that believes others are overly obsessed. And because ponies are usually viewed as things for little girl. People will easily

Let look at Mario fanbase…they have their dark side, which can be the annoying “Nintendrones” who troll Sony/Microsoft (Call of Duty and Halo being their targets)…you’re less likely to find these guys because unlike MLP, the dark sides tends to be concentrated in one area (video game message boards, rarely do you see these guys on youtube), and those that make the disturbing porn/ruined childhood fanarts well…they rarely cause issues within the fanbase, so most people tend to accept them and not view them negatively (and like MLP as we’ve seen on KYM, including the Mario Warfare webseries today, the Mario fanbase has a huge number of talented people in different fields). Yes, I know the Mario fanbase was old and well established and all.

To be honest, the whole incident I had in the “You’re Gonna Go Far, Kid” music video on youtube that led me right to KYM to learn about MLP, actually got me thinking into studying and looking at different subcultures like MLP on the internet. Each of them behaves in their own ways and have pluses/minuses to go along with them which makes it interesting to look at. I’ll be honest…I had no idea Spongebob Squarepants had a popularity among older audiences until this year.

And more importantly, let’s be honest…EVERY FANDOM HAS IT’S FLAWS. MLP has overly obsessed and creepy fans that even as the minority are very vocal. Mario, Zelda and Nintendo fans tend to start pointless rivalries at their opponents. Sonic fans have issues against each other, leading to insanely polarizing views when game are received (I found this issue to be more detrimental than OCs and Furries to be honest). Pokemon have a deal of shippers, fanfiction and disturbing artists. Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy gets freakin’ fanfictioned to hell. Call of Duty fans have mentality issues with literally everything else and also start stupid rivalries like Nintendo does. And don’t get me started with music fandoms…those are a whole another issue.

@Sir-ful Turtle
Gonna touch on your post.. Sometimes you choose the wrong episode and it turns out to be boring or bad. One music band I listen to now is Chevelle, and when I originally heard 2 songs on FM radio (long time ago), I had no interest…but when I heard others song on a Deftones/Tool pandora station, I immediately enjoyed those others songs and got into the band. Nonetheless though, there are some stuff you can try getting into but just can’t enjoy or be interested in…and that’s fine. The one thing everything can agree on is hating that thing and displaying it all the time (yes, that includes posting “53 Justin Bieber fans thumbed this video down”) does not make you better…in fact, it could make you become more annoying or worse. Trust me, I’ve learned it the hard way.

Dec 12, 2012 at 08:06PM EST
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@MDF

Sounds like someone wasn’t around in the MLP fandom circa 2010. Love and Tolerance was a real thing then. It lasted for about 4 months, and was very successful in retrospect; fending off trolls and drawing new converts. After 4 months it died because people got fed up with being the bigger person. I remember that when that happened a lot of bronies got fed up with the fandom and left.

Sounds like someones understanding of Bronies only comes from the surface.

I’ve been following the fandom since it began. I just didn’t start actively posting on Pony boards until a year later so I’m not blind to individuals who actually do deeply value a philosophy of “love and tolerance” (The meaning of the term differs between individuals) or use it in anti-trolling measures. In fact Bronies still use it today and if they want to love and tolerate, then cite MLP as their inspiration, then good on them. I welcome them to do so.

I never denied any of that.

It is certainly nice when more people act more civilized to one another, particularly on the internet, and not respond with aggression to other ideals, beliefs or even trolling attacks. Hence the popularity of the phrase back then. But reasons aside for “loving and tolerating”; none of that implies that it was ever central to the fandom which is what Fridge seemed to be saying

For those who think loving and tolerating was a central core of the fandom; take note of the origin:

This is not the 10 commandments of Bronydom. It’s just a macro from 4chan that plays upon the fruitiness of the whole thing. “Love and tolerance” is a product of Brony fan content. Bronies are not a product of “Love and Tolerance”

The fandom predates this macro. Before that, it was certainly just about that fan content and I assert that it still is. You can love and tolerate too if you like, that’s fine. But it’s not the big picture.

The truth is that absolutely nobody designated “Love and Tolerance” as a rule or mantra that Brony fandom had to believe or follow. It’s simply a nice little guideline to go by and that’s all.

My point is that the fandom never “lost” its values because the “values” were just tacked into us externally. What happened is that people came into the fandom looking for actual love and tolerance, taking the phrase as an advisement for the fandom. At first they get that love and tolerance because all fandoms will love and tolerate people who share the same interest. But then those people became disillusioned when they found out that it’s just a fandom. Then they go and say it’s our fault that the fandom is not what they thought it was.

But that’s unfair. MLP itself never at any point suggested Love and Tolerance as a moral. Not even the characters show practice it. Bronies invented it as a joke and over time it somehow evolved into an actual philosophy. This is nobodies fault

Last edited Dec 13, 2012 at 02:54AM EST
Dec 13, 2012 at 02:40AM EST
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Love and Tolerance was a trollism. Remember it started on 4chan when it was /b/rony then it became a real thing with bronies that weren’t from 4chan.

Dec 13, 2012 at 10:58AM EST
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RandomMan wrote:

I got into the fandom early 2011. Although “Love and tolerate” had a bigger presence in the fandom back then, I can confirm it was never a must. “Love and tolerate” was just an idea the fans took from the show, to make the fandom appear welcoming. But do you really think fans were shunned back then for saying a naughty word?

Love and toleration was never a goal, more an excuse, a bad attempt to keep the more vocal bronies at bay so to say. It was a community, and the thing they all still shared was liking ponies, that one thing never changed. Being a fandom revolves around having a shared liking on a certain show or subject, not about following a set of guidelines and rules.

Similar to the vocal aggressive bronies, vocal “true” bronies were also a small group. But as they were more vocal in their believes of love and tolerate, they just managed to stood out more. Like before, the proportion of “true” fans works the same as with the more aggressive ones.

And how do you expect bronies to stick to their ideals from 2 years ago? Fandoms change, evolve, adapt, they never stay the same. The Homestuck fandom originally was just about the 4 kids, now it has the whole set of trolls and others, and the fans have adapted to this in their fanworks.

Plus I find “weakening” an incorrect word, a rather go with “changed”. In the earliest days the main source of brony activity was still restricted to the internet, now conventions have become a common thing. The creators interact a lot more with the fans, and even try to appeal to them at times.

And sure, there will be a time that the brony fandom will die out, to return to a small dedicated group no bigger nor smaller than trekkies or Pokemon fans are nowadays. But the fandom is constantly changing, and I don’t see any signs of death in the near future. They’re still making new episodes, and I doubt this season is the last.

So a related question I ask you now: What do you think happened to the Homestuck fandom over the years? What will happen when the final page will be uploaded and the comic is over?


P.S. I don’t see myself as a “brony” for a long time anymore. I don’t hate the fandom or anything, flaws will remain forever and I deal with them (you should try, it’s not that hard), the show and content itself just lost its touch. Like a lot of things, I still love to interact with it, but I won’t call myself dedicated.

Oh, hey.
I see you replied to my post.
My post was trying to prove to someone that the love and tolerate thing existed, and that it was pretty major back in 2010.
The lessening presence of it can be described as weakening or changing. I prefer weakening as it’s a declining presence. If we’re talking about the fandom as a whole we can use changing. It doesn’t really change anything.
Also please, I’m just trying to correct an inaccuracy. No need to get defensive. That’s just what I remember it being like 2010. (2011 was a lot different) It was a thing. That’s all I’m saying.


As for the homestuck thing as soon as the comic ends it’s going to begin a rather rapid decline in popularity.


Edit @BSoD: Were you a part of the fandom in 2010? I was. I stopped being part of the fandom when things began to rapidly shift in it, as well as my tastes in general changing. My understanding of what it was like then comes from first hand experience. Please stop trying to ridicule me, it doesn’t make people who dislike bronies magically go away or anything. I was trying to correct the inaccurate statement that it wasn’t a thing. I remember that not only was it a thing, but that it was a hotly discussed issue among the brony community in 2010. After the summer of 2010 it rather abruptly died out.

Last edited Dec 13, 2012 at 04:48PM EST
Dec 13, 2012 at 04:45PM EST
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MDF wrote:

but that it was a hotly discussed issue among the brony community in 2010. After the summer of 2010 it rather abruptly died out.

The show debuted in October 2010. The fandom was not even a thing at that point, just a thread on /co/. (And I assume you mean the Summer of 2011?)

I joined my first pony thread on /co/ after “The Show Stoppers”. That was the first episode I saw live and I immediately went to MLP general so I can get art of my new favourite pony Scootaloo.

At that point (MARCH of 2011 barely 5 months after debut) MLP general was a cesspit and I immediately went looking for new pony communities which led me to KYM.

If a fandom’s “founding value” can’t last 4 months, it’s not founding value at all and I doubt it was ever meant to be.

Dec 13, 2012 at 05:10PM EST
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burning_phoneix wrote:

MDF wrote:

but that it was a hotly discussed issue among the brony community in 2010. After the summer of 2010 it rather abruptly died out.

The show debuted in October 2010. The fandom was not even a thing at that point, just a thread on /co/. (And I assume you mean the Summer of 2011?)

I joined my first pony thread on /co/ after “The Show Stoppers”. That was the first episode I saw live and I immediately went to MLP general so I can get art of my new favourite pony Scootaloo.

At that point (MARCH of 2011 barely 5 months after debut) MLP general was a cesspit and I immediately went looking for new pony communities which led me to KYM.

If a fandom’s “founding value” can’t last 4 months, it’s not founding value at all and I doubt it was ever meant to be.

Might be. I’m a little hazy on the dates.
I’m not saying it was the founding value. Point was that it happened and denying it happened is effectively pointless. If anything you guys should be proud of being the most mature fandom of all time for around 4 months.

Dec 13, 2012 at 09:13PM EST
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A long, long time ago
On an image board far away
4chan “was under an attack”
And I thought me and Qui-Gon Jinn
Could talk to the Admins into
Maybe cutting them a little slack
But their response, it didn’t thrill us
They locked the doors and tried to kill us
We escaped from that gas
Then made ponychan and 5chan’s /pony/
We took a bongo from the scene
And we went to Theed to see the Queen
We all wound up on /mlp/
That’s where we wound up like this…

Oh my my little pony
May be a fandom someday later – now it’s ironic posting
And it left its home and kissed its mommy goodbye
Sayin’ “Soon I’m gonna be a fandom”
“Soon I’m gonna be a fandom”

It short, the fandom was small in the beginning, most of the /b/ users spammed MLP related content while users on /co/ tried to contain it. Mostly it was intended as ironic posting due to the nature of the show, /co/ created “love and tolerance” to deter people who hated the show, it never was a core value, but it is nice to try to aspire to do so. /b/ made the term “bronies” mostly as a joke, I guess it just caught on and the name stuck. Then the purge of 4chan began which eventually lead to /mlp/. During that time EQD, ponychan, and /pony/ was made. Later, /pony/ was closed and many users returned to 4chan. From there I have no idea how the fandom spread to this proportion, but here it is today, one of the largest fandoms on the web. I can say that I am a “pro-brony” even if this fandom was forged to infuriate and capture the minds of 4chan users. The show is fun, colorful, imaginative, and animated very well, and it teaches a good moral lesson which not that many shows are like that now a days. Plus the amount of fan content is enormous, which can tell tales of epic or induce diabetes. The fandom has it quarks and odd balls, so does every other fandom, but they are the minority, they only appear to be the majority because they are the most vocal. I do understand that MLP FiM is not for everyone, I respect everyone else’s opinion on the show as long as they do not try to demonize me by association of false representation or try to bring up their hatred for no reason.

Last edited Dec 13, 2012 at 09:33PM EST
Dec 13, 2012 at 09:25PM EST
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@MDF

Well as my post points out; I was not saying that “love and tolerance” never even existed, my apologies if I implied that. Also sorry if my denial came out as a rude retort towards you, I did not mean to offend

People believed it was a real thing that Bronies stood for, even Bronies believed that and entered the fandom for it. You are correct on that one. You are your own example by your description

My point is that “love and tolerance” as a philosophy was a misconception from the beginning which led to those same people leaving the fandom in disgruntlement when the truth became apparent (Derpgate made that especially apparent). Therefor I don’t describe it as a loss of value when the value was never fully adapted into the fandom to begin with…well, for the people who used the fandom for its original intent anyway. If we stopped producing artwork, that would be a loss of value to me.

Sounds like you were a victim of that. I’m sorry (sincerely) how things did not work out

Last edited Dec 14, 2012 at 01:00AM EST
Dec 14, 2012 at 12:51AM EST
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I could not agree with Blue Screen any more on “loving and tolerating,” nor could I accurately express the intensity of my annoyance for people who automatically assume that, as bronies, we are doomed to love and tolerate, and that if we don’t adhere to this sacred rule of our fandom, we’re hypocrites.

The truth is, fuck you, Internet.

I don’t have to love and tolerate your shit. Being a brony isn’t a contractual agreement to be nice to people on the Internet and preach my messages of peace.

I joined this fandom because the cartoon is pleasant and makes me feel happy.

Not because I wanted to be more like Gandhi.


As for my opinion on the brony community as a whole…

I find the bulk of bronies extremely annoying. Outside of my precious KYM Pony Forum, which is classy as shit, the quality of what bronies have to say seems to rapidly decline.

There are a few shining beacons of intellectual stimulation other than KYM, of course. Don’t get me wrong.

It’s just that most bronies seem to dwell outside of those circles, and it is those bronies who seemingly make up the bulk of our fandom, and it is those bronies who don’t seem to understand exactly what it is supposed to mean to be a brony.

We aren’t a religion. We aren’t a fetish club. We are a fandom. That’s what they don’t seem to get, and it reflects poorly on all of us.

Last edited Dec 14, 2012 at 03:48AM EST
Dec 14, 2012 at 03:46AM EST
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Dac wrote:

Well, I’ve always had mixed feelings about bronies. On one hand, the can make some damn good fan work, but on the other hand, they can be over overzealous, whiny, and sometimes creepy. My opinion has swayed more to the negative spectrum lately. I don’t hate them by any means though.


Pretty much this.


While I still identify as a fan of the show, and have been around since early 2011, I still don’t like to call myself a brony. I don’t need any titles to make myself feel special, or part of a community.

I have a sort of love/hate relationship with the fandom.

While I really enjoy the creativity driven remix culture that has evolved around the show, I’ve noticed that I don’t like the fans themselves all that much. Most of them tend to be obsessive and overzealous, and that kinda annoys me. Especially the people that try to bring up ponies anytime, and anywhere. Even in places they don’t belong.

Of course there are still really nice and level headed fans of the show around, but unfortunately it feels like they are a dying race. Or at least drowning in the flood of obnixious fans.

I might be an artist with a slight remown withing the fandom, but I really have to identify as Pro Pony, but Slightly Anti-Brony.

Dec 14, 2012 at 04:57AM EST
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I may not talk much on this site, but I guess it’s one of them times where I stop being silent. Yep, there some scummy people out there, no I wouldn’t say it’s a minority (it isn’t a majority either, mind you) and it does get awkward at times. I came into the fandom due to all the good I saw after watching the show and found the bad and really, I don’t care. It can get disturbing at times, but it’s not as bad as people make it out to be. I also met a lot of nice bronies as well, outside of KYM even. And don’t think KYM is full of saints, there are quite some “odd balls” here, too. It’s also because of the Brony movement that my family has started to connect much better for a common interest. The community helps each other out in their time of need, flame wars are commonplace of course and I don’t really see much of a difference between this fandom and other fandoms other than size. Any fandom that has a name, be it Trekkie or Whovian, if you’re a fan, even at the slightest, you are one.

My time with other fandoms have also been nice, but that doesn’t mean they’ve been safe: Homestucks can get a bit between social justice and squick in terms of personality, quite some of the fallers (Gravity Falls) seem to like to ship pincest (I just despise incest relationships) and write some disturbing fanfics, the Dragon Ball fandom always gets into heated arguments that seem to end in “Goku can and will kill anybody in insert series/movie here,” The Sony and Nintendo fandoms always bicker with each other endlessly and the Toku fandom always pits a writer down if the series or movie isn’t to their liking. And you know what? I’m still a part of all of the fandoms, because there is good in all of them. If I weren’t me, I wouldn’t be in any fandom at all and wouldn’t have met a lot of interesting people.

I’m not going to deny that it can get a bit jarring at times, but to me, it just adds to my venture into the world of fandoms, whether it be a Brony, Faller, Homestuck, Z Fighter or what ever comes on in next time. People just let things get to their heads and give up too easily,because there’s a world of fandoms to explore.

Now I have to travel to the future, Gravity Falls’ hiatus just won’t seem to end and I’m getting a bit impatient.

Last edited Dec 14, 2012 at 11:02AM EST
Dec 14, 2012 at 10:55AM EST
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Blue Screen (of Death) wrote:

@MDF

Sounds like someone wasn’t around in the MLP fandom circa 2010. Love and Tolerance was a real thing then. It lasted for about 4 months, and was very successful in retrospect; fending off trolls and drawing new converts. After 4 months it died because people got fed up with being the bigger person. I remember that when that happened a lot of bronies got fed up with the fandom and left.

Sounds like someones understanding of Bronies only comes from the surface.

I’ve been following the fandom since it began. I just didn’t start actively posting on Pony boards until a year later so I’m not blind to individuals who actually do deeply value a philosophy of “love and tolerance” (The meaning of the term differs between individuals) or use it in anti-trolling measures. In fact Bronies still use it today and if they want to love and tolerate, then cite MLP as their inspiration, then good on them. I welcome them to do so.

I never denied any of that.

It is certainly nice when more people act more civilized to one another, particularly on the internet, and not respond with aggression to other ideals, beliefs or even trolling attacks. Hence the popularity of the phrase back then. But reasons aside for “loving and tolerating”; none of that implies that it was ever central to the fandom which is what Fridge seemed to be saying

For those who think loving and tolerating was a central core of the fandom; take note of the origin:

This is not the 10 commandments of Bronydom. It’s just a macro from 4chan that plays upon the fruitiness of the whole thing. “Love and tolerance” is a product of Brony fan content. Bronies are not a product of “Love and Tolerance”

The fandom predates this macro. Before that, it was certainly just about that fan content and I assert that it still is. You can love and tolerate too if you like, that’s fine. But it’s not the big picture.

The truth is that absolutely nobody designated “Love and Tolerance” as a rule or mantra that Brony fandom had to believe or follow. It’s simply a nice little guideline to go by and that’s all.

My point is that the fandom never “lost” its values because the “values” were just tacked into us externally. What happened is that people came into the fandom looking for actual love and tolerance, taking the phrase as an advisement for the fandom. At first they get that love and tolerance because all fandoms will love and tolerate people who share the same interest. But then those people became disillusioned when they found out that it’s just a fandom. Then they go and say it’s our fault that the fandom is not what they thought it was.

But that’s unfair. MLP itself never at any point suggested Love and Tolerance as a moral. Not even the characters show practice it. Bronies invented it as a joke and over time it somehow evolved into an actual philosophy. This is nobodies fault

I really don’t like ANYTHING MLP related and those pictures make want to punch people. It frustrates me the most of what i consider the weird children of the internet.

Dec 15, 2012 at 03:46AM EST
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@Liam

Okay, I’ll let you in on a little something buddy. You wanna know why I have no sympathy for your complaint? I’ll tell you

Every day I literally lose more hair to stress over my financial struggles, my poor relationship status, the perfect job I lost and the horrible ass-grinding one I gained, my taxes, my car insurance and rising petrol costs, my shitty internet, my rent, my debilitating location, my disadvantaged stature, my social awkwardness and all the other disasters I face in my life where I was given no other choice but to deal with it, and you come to me complaining about pictures on the internet as if that resembled anywhere close to a real problem. To me that is so very, very pathetic

The internet is full of horrible shit you wont like and real life is full of even more, I’m talking about shit that’s much worse than pictures on the internet. The older you get the more you will put up with bullshit that causes you real pain and costs you real money. You are going have to put on your sunglasses and deal with it, all of it.

Then you will look back at the minor things you rustled your jimmies over in your youth and you will wonder why you even thought they were real problems worth caring about in comparison to the hell you live in

I dealt with it. So can you.

Dec 15, 2012 at 04:22AM EST
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@Liam, if pictures of ponies on the internet make you want to go into a violent rage I would suggest either never going on the internet again or get anger management. For the reasons BSoD stated, getting mad about ponies is extremely childish and is such a non-issue yet people still like to make a big deal out of. This goes for bronies who freak out about actually pretty small things too like Derpy

Dec 15, 2012 at 12:12PM EST
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I’m pro-pony and pro-brony, though I can get annoyed and frustrated by the antics of some of the fandom’s more obnoxious members.

Dec 15, 2012 at 01:05PM EST
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I am not a brony. Although I used to be a few months ago. My views on the fandom have changed and now the brony fandom just annoys me time and time again. I don’t have the show or fandom. guess I’m just that one guy who doesn’t give a fuck.

Dec 15, 2012 at 01:23PM EST

@BSOD regarding Liam’s rather rude and non-constructive post:

Dec 15, 2012 at 03:26PM EST
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I like MLP. A lot. I fully approve of the community for being such an accepting and considerate one overall (with a few outliers), and feel like it has enriched my understanding of both the world, as well as the internet.

However, I hesitate to call myself a brony, or make too much of a deal about it. I never let any single thing define me as a person, ponies being no exception. For me, it’s just another one of those things I like. It’s not something that I dedicate my life around.

I’d caution away from throwing this into a pro-brony vs anti-brony debate, because that completely misses the point. Of life.

Dec 15, 2012 at 05:04PM EST
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What I’m feeling (I haven’t run through the final numbers yet) is that those who have accounticed themselves are primarily moderates, dashed with apologists from both sides. This is both affirming and somewhat of a surprise to me (it is, after all, a somewhat polarizing issue).

For the record I consider myself to be a Brony, for good or ill. I have a good many toys, dolls, and cards. I recite the show. I listen to a pony playlist near onto all the time. I have always thought the pervasive message was simply that the world could be a better, brighter place, if we let it. I more than understand the objections, both for the outside and from those, such as within this community, who have access to see what the Brony heart actually looks like.

Dec 16, 2012 at 12:48AM EST
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Explosive Lasers AKA Solaire AKA Sexiest wrote:

I for one am glad that I can find like-minded individuals who get off to the thought of being sodomized by Big Mac.

I’m definately pro-brony at this point, but I do sympathize with people who get annoyed by us. I remember seeing all the pony stuff start to pop up before I knew what it was about and being incredibly irritated by it.

@Phoneix

I have to disagree. While it’s true we don’t really have a good clean set of standards that makes someone a brony, I definately don’t think it boils down to “If you say you’re one, then you are one.”

If that were the case, I’d still consider myself not a brony because I hate that word with passionate intensity. So awkward and unwieldy. Still, one day I looked at myself and said “Okay, I watch the show every Saturday, I prowl the art, and I’m a regular part of the community. Who am I kidding?” For me to say that I’m not a brony would be inaccurate, and for someone who has never watched an episode or gotten involved with the community to say he is one woud be equally inaccurate.

Last edited Dec 16, 2012 at 11:23AM EST
Dec 16, 2012 at 11:16AM EST
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Twins the Serendipitous Serval wrote:

I like MLP. A lot. I fully approve of the community for being such an accepting and considerate one overall (with a few outliers), and feel like it has enriched my understanding of both the world, as well as the internet.

However, I hesitate to call myself a brony, or make too much of a deal about it. I never let any single thing define me as a person, ponies being no exception. For me, it’s just another one of those things I like. It’s not something that I dedicate my life around.

I’d caution away from throwing this into a pro-brony vs anti-brony debate, because that completely misses the point. Of life.

Agreed. I find the show fantastic and I thoroughly enjoy the community (mostly for its creativity -- I know a lot of fandoms produce just as much fan art, fics, videos, etc., but this is just the first I’ve ever been in).

But it’s not like when I introduce myself to people IRL, I’m like: “Hi, I’m a brony” -- not because I’m ashamed of the fact that I like the show, but because it’s only a single part of me, and I wouldn’t even say it’s the biggest part.

Obviously it defines me on KYM mostly because that’s the primary reason I come here, but we’re all individuals with unique interests outside of MLP:FiM.

Dec 16, 2012 at 02:33PM EST
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No need for a wall of text here unless asked, I don’t think.

I like the show a great amount. It’s enjoyable. It’s available. I make the most of it.

If somebody has a problem with bronies, I’m not going to object. They reserve the right to their opinion.

I’m pro-brony. I went to New Jersey for that show, to meet fellow fans. I have no rancor toward the community whatsoever. I’m sorry if you do.

Dec 18, 2012 at 01:03PM EST
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Trollkeeper wrote:

Oh, and something that I can’t stand: the loud minority. I hate that.

That’s actually the problem with literally every fanbase…there are always those that are loud, annoying, spam their opinions down our throat, won’t shut up about their respective fandom, in turn, making us hate that fandom.

Dec 18, 2012 at 08:30PM EST
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Daft Punkjet wrote:

That’s actually the problem with literally every fanbase…there are always those that are loud, annoying, spam their opinions down our throat, won’t shut up about their respective fandom, in turn, making us hate that fandom.

You don’t call all muslims terrorists because of that extremely small percentage that is, so why can’t that logic be applied here?

Everything has its rotten apples, you can’t fix that. What you can fix though is the damage they caused by showing others the good side of the fandom, not by running away and saying you hate your own fandom.

Dec 18, 2012 at 08:54PM EST
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I’m neutral.

I’ve watched the show, and while it is pretty overrated, I like it. I’m okay with bronies, but some of them can be annoying (bringing up ponies where it’s not relevant) or just plain weird (eg. Lyra plushie).

Dec 18, 2012 at 11:55PM EST
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