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KYM IRL Memes: Submit entries, earn prizes!

Last posted Apr 08, 2013 at 01:47AM EDT. Added Apr 01, 2013 at 12:36PM EDT
88 conversations with 23 participants

RandomMan wrote:

I was never a fan of people only getting motivated when there are rewards to gain. Like you said in your first reply, contributing with the purpose of getting appreciation or rewards is a bad attitude to have. Yesterday’s event could get a gold medal in the bad-reason-to-contribute olympics. It’s without doubt one of the reasons for my anger, as you’re basically rewarding bad manners here. All while quality gets fucked up by locations.

Those who do post entries usually can fall into the same category as me or VanManner, as taking the chance to take part in a one-time only game.

Like that basically is how I believe these things are best taken care of. It’s only natural that people like you, me or VanManner contribute to yesterday’s event, whether there were rewards or not. Perhaps in that way it was better to leave the rewards out until today, lower the requirements, and then just hand them out to people who were a good sport and contributed because they liked to, showing appreciation for actual legit effort. This would also motivate people to contribute in future events, as they then know that there’s a chance afterwards there will be rewards involved (instead of checking beforehand if there are and deciding on that). It’s a win-win situation.

But then again, when it comes to overal apprecation the Forum users were always a bit underappreciated. Both thanks-awards so far were only handing out titles and badges to quality entry contributors. Forum go-ers had to see themselves fish behind the net each time. So maybe it’s just a case of “fair enough”. But I still feel that it’s best to reward people on the areas they shine in, not through 1-day-and-never-again events.

I guess overall I do agree with what you’re saying to be honest. I guess I made a bit of mistake by contradicting myself in my statements. I guess I overall agree that these entries should be created in the spirit of goodwill, not gaining prizes. The Thanks Awards are a good example of how prizes should be given out. They are given out to those who excel in a certain field of meme research, and the prizes aren’t there to encourage people to create lot’s of entries, just to reward those who do anyway. Most of the participants could be seen as showing a “If I’m not going to gain anything, what’s the point in partaking” attitude, which is an absolutely awful attitude to have.

Apr 02, 2013 at 10:38AM EDT
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RandomMan wrote:

Digging through your entries all I found was about sections literally copied from Wikipedia, dupes, and entries that are perfectly comparable to the common insta-deadpool stuff.

If those all get accepted as legit I swear to god I will quit this fucking unfair site. I know I am making this way too personal and I apologise for that, but seeing effortless bullshit get appreciated more than everything I did so far is getting to me. I don’t care about the prizes, it’s about the difference in treatment.


Cale wrote:

This actually has me kind of worried. Most of our contributing members are not American, so it’s kinda rank they get cut out.

Welcome to my world.

It took me 9 hours to get all that stuff done, what with writing them, going back to and dumping in citations, and having to do with the other crap. I started around 2:30 and finished near 10:30.

Apr 02, 2013 at 10:43AM EDT
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Well at least my entry on drugs is popular. Seriously, why did Brad change the entry name to Recreational Drug Use?

Apr 02, 2013 at 11:27AM EDT
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Sorry I really do not know how to make a quality entry, and all the stuff I entered did spread and where known by many people, even without the internet.
About not making good entries, I never make any because I look before making an entry, and there is usually already a submission. So I don’t bother with it anymore. So I lack any practice in making an entry. Plus I’m a forum person, what did you expect?

Amanda B.

So as you can see from the entries front paged already, they don’t have to be as labor intensive as regular entries. You can shorten the about/spread sections, but try to fill up the external references when you can!

Yeah… That also explains some of my entries.


I also won’t pass up a chance to earn a title. I’ve been trying to earn one for three years. Trying to earn it for being on the forums somehow.
Last edited Apr 02, 2013 at 03:06PM EDT
Apr 02, 2013 at 03:01PM EDT
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we’re going through the entries today and will report back by EOD

Apr 02, 2013 at 03:02PM EDT
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Katie C. wrote:

It took me 9 hours to get all that stuff done, what with writing them, going back to and dumping in citations, and having to do with the other crap. I started around 2:30 and finished near 10:30.

Seeing some of your entries being only three lines, 5 images, and maybe 1 or 2 external references, I am having trouble believing that. 9 hours? With the proper dedication that time is what it takes me to deliver 2-3 good entries, just so I know they’re actually worth submitting. Multiply that by the amount of entries I put good effort in and I have probably saved KYM/Cheez at least a month of intern payment. I request nothing in return for it simply because I like doing this. What was your reason?

I’m sorry Katie, but I’m a quality above quantity person. I rather see the people who put a good amount of effort in 3 good entries, instead of others who did that on 10 bad ones solely for the title, get something in return. If we include your help in the IRC during the spam raids and your duplicate reports, I would have no trouble giving you some sort of reward. I don’t want anything myself anymore, I just want this to go down fair. A mountain of crap winning from one gold nugget is not something I consider fair, at all.

Last edited Apr 02, 2013 at 03:42PM EDT
Apr 02, 2013 at 03:14PM EDT
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Disclaimer: I did not write any entries yesterday. Along with already having a busy IRL schedule, I did not see the point in making an effort for a minor (at the minimum amount) or purely virtual (at the most) prize. However, if I had, there are certain unspoken rules I feel would have been understood by all.

  • No plagiarism. That includes Wikipedia, and honestly, is a rule I would think would be followed in any situation. Sure, it’s an April Fool’s joke, but you do realize that KYM is considered a serious academic database now. I wouldn’t plagiarize for a paper, so why would I plagiarize for an article (that may turn into an actual confirmed article, as VanManner (?) said)? I think it’s very unfair to essentially cheat like that, and you should have 15 minutes to write a short article anyways, which is plenty of time. Which brings me to my next point…
  • Following the 15-minute restriction. While it would have been nice if it had been removed yesterday, it wasn’t, and is a restriction that was added for a reason. Getting around it, as someone admitted they did, is an exploit, and last time I checked, most exploits were considered cheating. Besides, if you actually type it out instead of copy-pasting, 15 minutes should be enough time to do some quick research and type out a short but detailed article.
  • Actually doing “memetic” articles. Yes, memes existed before the Internet, and we’ve talked about IRL vs Internet memes since the early days of the site. For that matter, the rules specifically stated pre-internet memes, so why would you do non-meme articles (I’m looking at all of your people articles, Ann)?

While it’s up to the admins, if you can’t follow basic, common-sense rules like that, I probably wouldn’t consider your articles, to be honest.

Apr 02, 2013 at 03:24PM EDT
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RandomMan wrote:

Seeing some of your entries being only three lines, 5 images, and maybe 1 or 2 external references, I am having trouble believing that. 9 hours? With the proper dedication that time is what it takes me to deliver 2-3 good entries, just so I know they’re actually worth submitting. Multiply that by the amount of entries I put good effort in and I have probably saved KYM/Cheez at least a month of intern payment. I request nothing in return for it simply because I like doing this. What was your reason?

I’m sorry Katie, but I’m a quality above quantity person. I rather see the people who put a good amount of effort in 3 good entries, instead of others who did that on 10 bad ones solely for the title, get something in return. If we include your help in the IRC during the spam raids and your duplicate reports, I would have no trouble giving you some sort of reward. I don’t want anything myself anymore, I just want this to go down fair. A mountain of crap winning from one gold nugget is not something I consider fair, at all.

These aren’t even real entries and they were going for quantity. Each entry took me 10-20 minutes, and I had to go back, and I also had quite a bit of other things to do that day.

Please don’t try to ruin everyone else’s day.

Apr 02, 2013 at 03:28PM EDT
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I’m really hoping that the submissions are going to be based off of spread. Knowing what it is by not even looking at the entry itself.

Apr 02, 2013 at 03:28PM EDT
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Twilitlord wrote:

Disclaimer: I did not write any entries yesterday. Along with already having a busy IRL schedule, I did not see the point in making an effort for a minor (at the minimum amount) or purely virtual (at the most) prize. However, if I had, there are certain unspoken rules I feel would have been understood by all.

  • No plagiarism. That includes Wikipedia, and honestly, is a rule I would think would be followed in any situation. Sure, it’s an April Fool’s joke, but you do realize that KYM is considered a serious academic database now. I wouldn’t plagiarize for a paper, so why would I plagiarize for an article (that may turn into an actual confirmed article, as VanManner (?) said)? I think it’s very unfair to essentially cheat like that, and you should have 15 minutes to write a short article anyways, which is plenty of time. Which brings me to my next point…
  • Following the 15-minute restriction. While it would have been nice if it had been removed yesterday, it wasn’t, and is a restriction that was added for a reason. Getting around it, as someone admitted they did, is an exploit, and last time I checked, most exploits were considered cheating. Besides, if you actually type it out instead of copy-pasting, 15 minutes should be enough time to do some quick research and type out a short but detailed article.
  • Actually doing “memetic” articles. Yes, memes existed before the Internet, and we’ve talked about IRL vs Internet memes since the early days of the site. For that matter, the rules specifically stated pre-internet memes, so why would you do non-meme articles (I’m looking at all of your people articles, Ann)?

While it’s up to the admins, if you can’t follow basic, common-sense rules like that, I probably wouldn’t consider your articles, to be honest.

That 15 minute restriction was a bitch. That’s why I kept submitting the entries blank then going back and working on them, so I didn’t have to sit out 15 minutes everytime, otherwise I would have ran out of time. I’m proud to say that I didn’t copypasta anything that wasn’t a citation though.

Last edited Apr 02, 2013 at 03:32PM EDT
Apr 02, 2013 at 03:30PM EDT
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Katie C. wrote:

These aren’t even real entries and they were going for quantity. Each entry took me 10-20 minutes, and I had to go back, and I also had quite a bit of other things to do that day.

Please don’t try to ruin everyone else’s day.

This is something I refuse not to take a stand on. We should reward for the willingness to contribute, not for being a custom title whore. I’m certainly not the only person who just finds this whole competition unfair in how it went down.

Apr 02, 2013 at 04:13PM EDT
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The grand prize is a new permanent title? It’ll be nice to have a new permanent title. Unfortunately I’m not going to whore out all kinds of articles that may end up Deadpool.

Apr 02, 2013 at 04:39PM EDT
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The thing RandomMan is angry about is to do with a) The contributions were made with prizes in mind. He’s just concerned with the fact that many people would not be as into it, if into it at all, if it wasn’t due to a custom title and b) he’s scared that the admins are going to choose users who made twenty shitty copypastas over users who made 10 quality entries for the higher prizes.
In that way, I agree. It’s not fair if those who made 20 entries consisting of 4 lines pulled straight from Wikipedia get better prizes than those who made less entries, but with 110% more quality. I checked over the entries earlier on, and the copypasta is shameless. There’s not even an attempt at even re-writing it so it sounds original, it just Wikipedia in kym entry form. If you’re going to go that route, you might as well copypasta the who Wikipedia page.

Apr 02, 2013 at 04:57PM EDT
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I’m just gonna state an opinion.
If you wanted more quality it should have been in the contest rules.

Apr 02, 2013 at 05:14PM EDT
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Ann Hiro wrote:

I’m just gonna state an opinion.
If you wanted more quality it should have been in the contest rules.

Amanda did state in an earlier post that while they don’t need to be as expansive as regular entries, the entries should be of a decent quality, using Search Analytics from Google Books, and using External References where possible. I think no copypasta is common sense really. I understand that as a forum goer, entries are not you’re strong point, but all it really takes is a quick brush up on the different guides available.

Last edited Apr 02, 2013 at 05:21PM EDT
Apr 02, 2013 at 05:19PM EDT
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You know what would have been a fair win? Getting at least one of the articles you submitted actually confirmed BECAUSE they were detailed, well-written, and memetic. I only submitted one possible meme yesterday, and I DID a fair amount of research on said submission. Can I add more to it? Of course! In fact, for my first submission ever, I did a decent job on it, and knew I could have added more to it. The reason why I didn’t was because of the format of the article (I checked the textile help on the site-related forums, but was utterly confused overall) looked a bit sloppy when I added photos. Other than that fact, I did in my opinion quality work, so I completely agree with RandomMan on how quality should be more than quantity.

But those bloody articles with only a few sentences! Those got me really pissed!

Last edited Apr 02, 2013 at 05:30PM EDT
Apr 02, 2013 at 05:28PM EDT
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Seems like you guys forgot that it was APRIL FOOL’S DAY

Apr 02, 2013 at 05:54PM EDT
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I do admit my articles where rushed. I usually only wright bare bones articles in attempt to get all the info I know and the things origin out before asking for help from a more skilled writer (or passively wait for one to take interest). I hope my writing wasn’t complete crap, though brief. And I only quoted Wikipedia once, but directly said I did.

The contest was designed to populate the website with as many IRL Memes as possible for the big Apirl Fools prank, something that wouldn’t have happened without a little bit of encouragement. I admit I personally only would have done one entry before throwing in the towel if there wasn’t something to be won.

Seeing how the goal of this contest was to get the super ridiculous amount of 20 entries out before Midnight (or 8pm if you live where I do) on a School Day, with an imposed 15 minute time limit after creating an entry, and would only be featured for one day before promptly getting deadpooled; I would only blame the participants as far as taking the bait. I admit wholeheartedly getting one really good and well researched and written entry out would have been a far better exercise than the Keyboard Pounding Post As Many Entries As I Possibly Can Oh God My Pinkies and Ring Fingers are Going to Fall Of.

But as literally the second opportunity for Forum Goers to go off and do something fun and get rewarded a special title for doing so (with the community building contest being the first), the bait was a bit too irresistible.

Last edited Apr 02, 2013 at 06:19PM EDT
Apr 02, 2013 at 06:18PM EDT
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Katie C. wrote:

Seems like you guys forgot that it was APRIL FOOL’S DAY

The internet is srs bsns. Nevar forget that.
In all seriousness though, be it April Fools Day or not, unfairness is still unfairness

Apr 02, 2013 at 06:23PM EDT
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Natsuru Springfield wrote:

I do admit my articles where rushed. I usually only wright bare bones articles in attempt to get all the info I know and the things origin out before asking for help from a more skilled writer (or passively wait for one to take interest). I hope my writing wasn’t complete crap, though brief. And I only quoted Wikipedia once, but directly said I did.

The contest was designed to populate the website with as many IRL Memes as possible for the big Apirl Fools prank, something that wouldn’t have happened without a little bit of encouragement. I admit I personally only would have done one entry before throwing in the towel if there wasn’t something to be won.

Seeing how the goal of this contest was to get the super ridiculous amount of 20 entries out before Midnight (or 8pm if you live where I do) on a School Day, with an imposed 15 minute time limit after creating an entry, and would only be featured for one day before promptly getting deadpooled; I would only blame the participants as far as taking the bait. I admit wholeheartedly getting one really good and well researched and written entry out would have been a far better exercise than the Keyboard Pounding Post As Many Entries As I Possibly Can Oh God My Pinkies and Ring Fingers are Going to Fall Of.

But as literally the second opportunity for Forum Goers to go off and do something fun and get rewarded a special title for doing so (with the community building contest being the first), the bait was a bit too irresistible.

That’s 9pm.

But I’m going to go with what Natsuru is saying. This contest was on for 15 hours, and I was busy up until 2:30. I expected to take 6 hours doing this, it took me 9 because I had a crapload of other stuff I needed to do, and also because I had to backtrack and because some entries took longer than expected.

Apr 02, 2013 at 06:52PM EDT
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Katie C. wrote:

That’s 9pm.

But I’m going to go with what Natsuru is saying. This contest was on for 15 hours, and I was busy up until 2:30. I expected to take 6 hours doing this, it took me 9 because I had a crapload of other stuff I needed to do, and also because I had to backtrack and because some entries took longer than expected.

I understand what you mean. I was up in the early hours of the morning on this, but I did still try to take the time for effort. Anyway, the admins should be here soon, so let’s see what they have to say on the matter.

Apr 02, 2013 at 06:56PM EDT
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The thing is, I went for the challenge not entirely for the title, but mainly because I excel at understanding memetic spread in real life far more than on the internet, which is why I gave up the plan of becoming a researcher and went on to be a conversationalist.

But enough about that, I understand RandomMan’s frustration, it’s just that it seems the site, being as it is (the meme encyclopaedia), looks less professional if we get a bunch of people adding entries on things that have been famous or traditional at least once through history, taking quick bits of information where they can just to get the entries looking a bit more acceptable so they can move onto the next one and next one and next one, just to get a custom title? Well, it does seem a bit off when put that way.

I still need to work on two entries, but am busy this week. Nostradamus, pre- internet or not, seems quite valid to me, actually.


@markhaox14

Quantity and quality seemed to be both important, but I feel that I agree, otherwise all this fuss wouldn’t have quite so happened.

Last edited Apr 02, 2013 at 07:08PM EDT
Apr 02, 2013 at 07:04PM EDT
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(Gabe sighs)
Alright Amanda. I’ll play your contest, even if it was on April Fools. But I’m submitting ONE entry. Just ONE.

Apr 02, 2013 at 08:40PM EDT
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inb4 no titles and it was just an April Fools joke.

Apr 02, 2013 at 09:02PM EDT

Wsxdas, The Last Kramabender wrote:

inb4 no titles and it was just an April Fools joke.

>MFW you had one upvote, I gave you an upvote and suddenly you have three upvotes:

Also, I hope that the secret gift is a box of dragon dildos. That would be the best April Fool’s day prank ever.

Apr 02, 2013 at 10:31PM EDT
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Arlon The Serene (Free Cake) wrote:

>MFW you had one upvote, I gave you an upvote and suddenly you have three upvotes:

Also, I hope that the secret gift is a box of dragon dildos. That would be the best April Fool’s day prank ever.

Someone upvoted him before you did. That’s what happens.

Apr 02, 2013 at 10:40PM EDT
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Seeing how they wouldn’t need to pretend to be counting things up for this in order to call us an April Fool, I doubt it was a prank anymore.

Apr 03, 2013 at 04:02PM EDT
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Alright, I’ve read the thread a couple of times now, and it’s time to post, I guess. I have to point out that, in order to get my point across, I’m going to have to be brutally honest here, and if this post does merit me downvotes, I’ll take the downvotes that I deserve.

Now, my understanding is pretty simple: as an April Fools joke, the staff members (and the mods, who seem to have been in on the joke as well) decided to administer this contest for the userbase with the concept of “memes that spread without/before the Internet” in mind. Now, as an added incentive, the staff decided to announce that they are going to be handing out a couple of prizes for those who participate based on the number of entries they submit (and, to a lesser extent, the content of the entries themselves), among those prizes things like a custom title and a badge to go along with the real life prizes.

Although it seems as though the staff is currently looking into an alternative way to reward the non-American members who contribute, I can understand RandomMan’s irritation about being snubbed by these limitations again; being that KnowYourMeme is a website based in the US, and Cheezburger is an American media outlet and organization. Of course, on the other hand, I don’t think that it’s “discrimination” against those that participating that don’t live in the US, because overseas shipping is really freaking expensive and the staff couldn’t have been too keen on those expenses. Nonetheless, I can see how that would hurt.

Anyways, about the entries themselves, I’m more or less in agreement with the guidelines and possible criteria for entries posted by Twilitlord. The points he brings up about plagiarism (the most obvious of them all, yet apparently not to those who copypasted from Wikipedia), following the legitimate restrictions imposed for a reason, and making articles about things that are legitimate real-life memes (religion is a good example). I consider it to be shameless gaming of the system to try to slip around the first two (copypasting from Wikipedia and, in at least one case, getting around the 15-minute time limit on entries by mashing the back button again and again), and I don’t agree at all with the “forum person” argument. “Forum person” or not, you should be able to follow these simple guidelines of common sense, and because of this, I’d go as far as to say that it’s a flat-out insult to the forum community here to suggest that because they use the forums more than they frequent other parts of the site, they must not have any idea how to craft something of a proper entry, whether or not it’s a legitimate Internet meme or for some silly April Fools prank. “I’m a forum person” is not a fair excuse: it’s a lame attempt to earn some leeway from the staff so that all of your otherwise illegitimate entries would have a shot at being accepted. Frankly, it annoys me that you would even suggest that, let alone try to use it as an argument.

I did go back to look at a few of the entries submitted by a couple of users participating here, and many of the entries are frustratingly shameless; be they a short about section copied directly from Wikipedia and a single sentence for the “Spread”, three or four sentences and a bunch of pictures, or a thoroughly subpar submission, even by the standards set for this contest, with “W.I.P.” slapped on the top of the page to pass the entry. It grinds me how many of these entries were created in a floodlike manner, most of them not paying much or all attention to detail and the rules (though not defined in stone, so I guess that I’ll have to give you that) of the contest. I do understand that, as the OP would have it, it’s technically about quantity when it comes to determining who gets what prizes, but how many entries you submitted doesn’t matter if you didn’t at least make an attempt at doing some work to make these entries suitable and considerable. Submitting almost 30 entries in 3 hours doesn’t mean shit if those 30 entries are entirely lacking in what they need.

Furthermore, the question of “why does a user that submits 20 loads of crap get a better prize than a user who works hard to submit 5 well-done entries?” is an entirely legitimate one. Had I wanted to participate in this contest, I could have easily submitted 20 blank entries in about four minutes by getting around the time limit, then gone back and copypasted a few sentences from Wikipedia for the “About,” typed in something like “It’s known all over the world” for the “Spread” section, and if I felt like it, add in a few pictures and maybe an external reference, and be done with that. Custom title and badge coming my way, easy. Or I could have spent hours on each entry, trying to carefully refine it and add acceptable content and wording to it, explain its notability and add in enough references to prove my topic’s legitimacy, and add pictures as is suitable. If I did this, it’s likely that I’d have completed five entries at most. On top of this, nobody that participated in this contest is a machine; you all have other things to do. You’d have to be beyond mod/staff member level in terms of skill at entry writing and research to create twenty entries like this in only a couple of hours. Yet, despite all the hard work that the user who could only create five entries at most did, they would get less than the user that submitted 20 bad entries in a heartbeat. I’m sorry if it took you nine hours or more to get all your work done on the entries that you did submit, but if you submitted at least 20 entries, chances are that more than a few of them won’t be up to the standard. I understand that if you wanted to get 20 entries in, you’d have to rush them, but my point still stands.

As for the actual motivation to write these entries, this is the part that I actually found sort of sickening: the motivation for these submissions. I’ll start by saying that I resent the idea that those who scrambled to get in as many entries as possible intending to earn a custom title deserve a custom title just for being on the forums.

(Not trying to pick on Ann here, but I need to use this as an example)

Ann Hiro wrote:

I also won’t pass up a chance to earn a title. I’ve been trying to earn one for three years. Trying to earn it for being on the forums somehow.

This is the kind of attitude that I don’t like, because you don’t deserve anything here for “being on the forums somehow.” This is because the forums (with the exception of Meme Research) are unrelated and tertiary to the site and its mission. The same argument can be applied to the hordes of “+1” commenters, but that isn’t what is important here. Posting a bunch in JFF isn’t going to get you a custom title, neither is being consistently active around here for 3 years (a rather belated congratulations on that, by the way). Sure, the forums and the community around here are swell. But if you’re a part of the community and posting here with the idea of entitlement over others in mind, then you aren’t posting with the right idea and mindset behind it.

I’ll be as blunt as I can: contributing to the community itself doesn’t make you any more useful to the mission of the site than anybody else who does the same thing, and age of account is no reason for elitism and ideas of privileges like a special title from the staff. The reason that people who frequent the forums, and the forums alone, didn’t get mentions in the Thanks Awards (other than Verbose, at least) is not that the forum frequenters are “neglected” by the staff and mods. it is that the “forum people” simply aren’t as helpful to the mission as those that do entry research and contribute tons of media, or even the select few “forum people” that spend a lot of time helping to better the site and use the forums as a means of communication (Katie’s efforts are a good example), and therefore are not first in line for privileges and thanks from the staff and mods. That’s just the way that it is.

The bait might have been hard to resist, but the reason that it was hard to resist is what doesn’t sit well with me.

I could go on in greater length, but I think that this should suffice. I’ve made my point.

So, yeah, obviously I’m sort of irritated right now. I’m sorry if this post contained more spite than it should have, but how people were going about this contest (even if it was a joke) frustrated me.

Last edited Apr 04, 2013 at 10:05AM EDT
Apr 04, 2013 at 10:02AM EDT
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One thing I was satisfied with was the Street Fighter entry I entered got the attention of Random 21, and Don. Making the front page.

Apr 04, 2013 at 10:54AM EDT
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Ann Hiro wrote:

One thing I was satisfied with was the Street Fighter entry I entered got the attention of Random 21, and Don. Making the front page.

Ann, you’re avoiding the point here by changing the subject. I rather have you reply to Kris. When you submitted that entry you didn’t think “I’ll make a good looking entry for a subculture I find worthy of documentation on KYM, but instead it was just another “Better submit another thing so I can get that custom title.” Plain and simple. It’s current state does not change that fact.

As you said yourself, it was not yourself who made that entry what it is right now, it was Random 21 and Don. Being the OP of an entry does not bring credit to one for everything it contains.

Apr 04, 2013 at 11:49AM EDT
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RandomMan wrote:

Ann, you’re avoiding the point here by changing the subject. I rather have you reply to Kris. When you submitted that entry you didn’t think “I’ll make a good looking entry for a subculture I find worthy of documentation on KYM, but instead it was just another “Better submit another thing so I can get that custom title.” Plain and simple. It’s current state does not change that fact.

As you said yourself, it was not yourself who made that entry what it is right now, it was Random 21 and Don. Being the OP of an entry does not bring credit to one for everything it contains.

I know, but I’m happy that the entry got some attention, plain and simple. As a Street Fighter enthusiast I’m happy that it has an entry at all.

@Kris
Sorry, but a prize is a prize, and one must do what needs to be done to get that prize.
And the Forum person comment, I have no clue on how to make a decent entry. Have you ever seen my past entries before this? Worse than a random BNM trying to create a meme. Other than that people seem to confuse my want of standing out of the rest of the forum crowd as elitism. I just don’t like being a faceless cog in a machine.

Last edited Apr 04, 2013 at 12:24PM EDT
Apr 04, 2013 at 11:59AM EDT
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Ann Hiro wrote:

I know, but I’m happy that the entry got some attention, plain and simple. As a Street Fighter enthusiast I’m happy that it has an entry at all.

@Kris
Sorry, but a prize is a prize, and one must do what needs to be done to get that prize.
And the Forum person comment, I have no clue on how to make a decent entry. Have you ever seen my past entries before this? Worse than a random BNM trying to create a meme. Other than that people seem to confuse my want of standing out of the rest of the forum crowd as elitism. I just don’t like being a faceless cog in a machine.

Firstly, grats on your entry making the front page, although I’m sure that RandomMan’s deduction about you wanting to hurriedly rattle it off is most likely correct. However, regardless of how much work you did on the entry, that isn’t what I’m here to address.


Sorry, but a prize is a prize, and one must do what needs to be done to get that prize.

Hmm.

Well, of course, a prize is a prize. Although I don’t agree with your reasoning as to why you would want one of the prizes offered (the custom title), I’m not going to argue with you about this.

Now, about the ending to that sentence (although the beginning implied the same meaning anyway), “one must do what needs to be done.” With all due respect, it seems like you’re saying that as if you’re aware that taking these drastic measures to reach the 20-entry mark was absolutely necessary (which, to be honest, it was) but you decided to go right on ahead with these measures anyway. That strikes me as being sort of immoral.

Do correct me if I’m misunderstanding, but it seems as though you knew that it was a matter of “submit 20 bad entries as quickly as possible and hope that they’re all legit.” With this in mind, it’s not hard to arrive at the conclusion that you weren’t terribly invested in the quality of the entries that you submitted, but rather the quantity of the entries; in other words, you were keeping your eyes on the prize (assuming that the staff will actually hold their word), but not in the right way. And (this might be being a little bit too honest, and I’m sorry for that), just a touch of greed is sprinkled on when you put so much emphasis on getting the prize that you want.

Anyways, the thing is that I don’t see eye-to-eye with you about “what needs to be done” here, because (again, being plain and honest probably to the point that it sounds like I’m insulting you) the bunch of entries that you submitted were not those of a future entry moderator or staff member. They were the entries of a community member trying to sling out as many submissions as possible within a short period of time, without much regard for the guidelines and unwritten regulations laid out. Entries barely reaching a paragraph in length, some without images entirely, many without any external references. Like RandomMan said, many of the entries that you submitted would probably be deadpooled by a mod on sight, if not for this contest. You admitted to not knowing how to compose a “proper” entry, but that doesn’t fly as an excuse from my point of view.

Speaking of…

And the Forum person comment, I have no clue on how to make a decent entry. Have you ever seen my past entries before this? Worse than a random BNM trying to create a meme.

Making entries isn’t your bent, and I understand that completely. But the “forum person” comment you made still rubs me the wrong way anyway, because like I said, it implies that forum users are completely without knowledge and skill in regards to entry writing a little bit too much for my tastes, and that feels like an insult. I’m not a big entry editor myself (one edit so far on the one editorship I have; I really should do some more work on that), but I’ve seen enough entries to feel like I at least have some knowledge of how a good entry is supposed to look. It’s a cognitive thing; I would base the entries that I’ve created off of previous successful entries, because those entries work and they look like good entries are supposed to. There’s no need to create an entry from scratch. Actually, creating an entry from scratch is almost frowned upon around here, considering how almost every legitimate entry on this site follows a certain formula. And with all of the style guides, guides to entry writing and meme research, and entry moderators around here to ask questions to, it’s not like you didn’t have any resources.

I know that your definition of a “forum person” is somebody who spends most or all of their time hanging out in the forum, and most of the guides and resources for entry creation are in the forum.

Something I might not have touched upon clearly enough (if at all) is that I’d have been fine if you had said that you weren’t good at writing entries yourself and left it at that. I wouldn’t have felt the need to bring it up any further than by explaining that I didn’t think it was a good excuse. But you labeled yourself as a “forum person” and used the term in a negative context, associating it with the lack of ability to excel in any aspect of this site other than writing a few forum posts per day. I hope you can understand how that seems a little bit offensive.

Other than that people seem to confuse my want of standing out of the rest of the forum crowd as elitism. I just don’t like being a faceless cog in a machine.

I don’t consider it to be elitism per se, I consider it to be entitlement and grappling for privileges in a sense. I don’t think at all that any user here is just a faceless member of a faceless mob. If you want to stand out in the crowd around here, why not post some stuff that really does make you stand out?

My issue is that I don’t like how you worded that. It makes you sound like you want to be on a higher plane than the rest of the users on this site. Some kind of “forum senpai.” I can’t speak for your intent, but I can’t help but interpret this that way. If you want to get noticed and stand out amongst your fellow community members, then you should let your posts speak for themselves, rather than having a custom title or some other privilege do the talking.

Maybe it’s because I don’t judge users by their high post numbers or their fancy Conversationalist titles or the number of people on their friends list or their karma count. Rather, I judge people entirely based on the content of their contributions to the community and to the database. The words you type into your Reply box have ten times as much meaning to me as the word(s) that show up underneath your username.

I get that you think that the forums are the best part of the site, but like I said earlier, they are in no way the most important part. So, although it might be hard to admit it, most forum frequenters won’t be first in line when all of the special custom titles and thanks and badges of appreciation get handed out by the staff and the mods. Like I said, the simple reality is that some do more to improve the database than others.

Ann, don’t take this the wrong way. Four months ago when I joined, you were the first user to welcome me to KnowYourMeme, and I did appreciate that (I still do). I just don’t like what you’re saying at the moment.

Last edited Apr 04, 2013 at 01:55PM EDT
Apr 04, 2013 at 01:46PM EDT
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I was planning to reply to Kris as well in my previous post, but life called.


Although it seems as though the staff is currently looking into an alternative way to reward the non-American members who contribute, I can understand RandomMan’s irritation about being snubbed by these limitations again; being that KnowYourMeme is a website based in the US, and Cheezburger is an American media outlet and organization.

As stated before, getting one of these prizes no longer matters to me. The staff needed to get permission for the shipping from Cheez, and Cheez clearly replied with “US only”. I don’t blame them for rather not paying it themselves otherwise, it’s a massive difference from shipping in just the US. They were willing to send some stuff international out of their own pocket if not too expensive, this was not the case unfortunately. Currently I can hope the gift cards will get an ok, but will not bother should they not. That they were willing to put this much effort into people like myself is already appreciated by itself.


And with all of the style guides, guides to entry writing and meme research, and entry moderators around here to ask questions to, it’s not like you didn’t have any resources.

This point has been brought up various times so far, and I don’t really blame either side for their points. Sure, inexperience can do damage to a possibly good entry. But as Kris and Random 21 earlier have clearly stated, resources were there. Considering that we were frontpaging various of these entries, checking those out should’ve given you a clear estimate of the quality we were looking for in the final result. The OP posts also offered to join the IRC if you had questions, and I know for a fact that mods and staff were active there throughout the day. Of course, we don’t expect inexperienced users to deliver the quality that gets put on the frontpage, but that doesn’t take away that numerous of the current entries were just shameless flooding. Being a member on KYM, whether a “forum person” or not, it can be assumed you know how to read our articles and through that get a clear estimate of the quality we look for. And even if that’s not the case, we have solutions available.

The OP posts clearly states that the prizes are handed out to valid submissions. True, it’s not exactly a clear description of what is and isn’t allowed. But reading through mod and staff submissions (both during and outside of April Fools) would clearly show you that a lot of this can simply not be considered “valid” submissions, whether through lack of work or being a non-legit entry (dupes and entries that didn’t match the “pre-internet memes” topic were plenty). Any right mind would know that plagiarism can not be consired ones own valid work.


The bait might have been hard to resist, but the reason that it was hard to resist is what doesn’t sit well with me.

This point has bothered me a bit as well, as it clearly states that it was the “bait” that made these users into submitting what they did. There is no willingness to contribute here, there is a set goal in mind which must be reached using any low tactic possible. I don’t blame people for liking the thought of having a custom title, but the ways some were going at it disgusts me.


With all due respect, it seems like you’re saying that as if you’re aware that taking these drastic measures to reach the 20-entry mark was absolutely necessary (which, to be honest, it was) but you decided to go right on ahead with these measures anyway.

I don’t argue that the lack of time was a serious cockblock to the 20-entry mark. But if a person delivered nothing but quality (adapted to experience of that individual), only to not reach the 20 solely due to the time limit, it would most likely have been no issue for me to request to make them an exception and still give them the custom title. It’s the effort that counts in those cases, and something you have no control over like the time limit should not be a determinating factor there.

But whether it is inexperience or the timelimit, it is clearly shown that numerous of these entries are the result of zero effort and plagiarism. Both points are no excuses there.

Apr 04, 2013 at 07:57PM EDT
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In response to RandomMan:

As stated before, getting one of these prizes no longer matters to me. The staff needed to get permission for the shipping from Cheez, and Cheez clearly replied with “US only”. I don’t blame them for rather not paying it themselves otherwise, it’s a massive difference from shipping in just the US. They were willing to send some stuff international out of their own pocket if not too expensive, this was not the case unfortunately. Currently I can hope the gift cards will get an ok, but will not bother should they not. That they were willing to put this much effort into people like myself is already appreciated by itself.

I also appreciate that the staff would even make mailing prizes out to users a concern of theirs (assuming this is legit, which I still have my doubts about, but that doesn’t belong here right now) because they could have easily decided to just make the custom title the only prize and leave it at that. The gift card option makes me appreciate the staff’s efforts more. But like I said (and like you said), Cheezburger is an American company and they aren’t looking to spend a lot of money on international shipping of physical items. Nonetheless, that the staff would even consider giving out prizes does make me appreciate their efforts.

Considering that we were frontpaging various of these entries, checking those out should’ve given you a clear estimate of the quality we were looking for in the final result.

A point, of course, seeing as a couple of the entries that made the front page were created and worked on by staff members and mods; common sense will tell you that what the higher-ups create as their example to the users is what the higher-ups are looking for regarding things like quality, length, citations, etc. But I’m honestly not sure how many of the users trying to fire off as many entries as possible had the time or resolve to go back and look to see the standard that they were supposed to have met. I say this because many entries submitted were below the standard the staff/mods had set themselves. Had the users submitting the entries decided to go back and check to make sure everything was on the up-and-up, then all of the entries would probably be, at the very least, acceptable for consideration (which, at the moment, many are not).

And about the fact that just about everybody knows that copypasting from Wikipedia won’t make a legitimate entry, that’s one of the things that I find so unsettling about Ann’s “what needs to be done needs to be done” comment. It gives the impression that he was well-aware that quantity was a factor, and that he thought that it was a much more important factor than what determines whether or not the 30 or so entries he submitted are even legitimate: the quality. So, I can come to the conclusion that he (and certain others) decided that copypasting from Wikipedia was something that could be looked the other way on at the very least, because drastic measures needed to be taken if the GLORIOUS CUSTOM TITLE was to be obtained.

This point has bothered me a bit as well, as it clearly states that it was the “bait” that made these users into submitting what they did. There is no willingness to contribute here, there is a set goal in mind which must be reached using any low tactic possible. I don’t blame people for liking the thought of having a custom title, but the ways some were going at it disgusts me._

Despite the sarcastic nature of my previous comment, I can understand some users wanting a custom title, but the whole “standing out from the rest of the forum crowd” bit is what I don’t agree with. I consider it to be participating in the community with the idea of entitlement in one’s head for one to post with the desire to stand out in a “privileged” way (a custom title is the most notable example). If you’re trying to earn a custom title for sitting around in the forums all the time, I have some bad news for you.

What I want to express here is this: it’s alright to want a custom title, but if you want one just to stand out and (more likely than not) to provide yourself with the delusion that you’re some sort of upperclassman that other users should envy because they didn’t submit 20 bad entries and achieve a custom title because of it, then you need to ask yourself whether or not you actually deserve a custom title. Same thing goes for those who think that too many people who contribute to entries get custom titles, and not enough people who contribute to the forums get custom titles. We can all be friends and have fun around here, but expecting to be given a reward for it doesn’t help that user’s case in my opinion.

(Actually, even the idea of people who contribute a lot to entries and expect custom titles and thanks from the staff/mods bugs me a bit, because the attitude of “contributing because I want to, not because I want rewards” should still be there, no matter what you’re contributing to.)

I don’t argue that the lack of time was a serious cockblock to the 20-entry mark. But if a person delivered nothing but quality (adapted to experience of that individual), only to not reach the 20 solely due to the time limit, it would most likely have been no issue for me to request to make them an exception and still give them the custom title.

Certainly! I don’t really hold any power around here, but if I saw a user submit 18 good entries only to run out of time, I would probably contact the staff members and try to reason with them for that user to get the reward anyway, because they did some real work and genuinely deserve a prize for the work.

On the other hand, as I’m sure I’ve made clear, I’m not too keen on giving users that submitted 20 entries that would have been deadpooled within five minutes, be it not for the contest, all of them thoroughly lacking in everything that an entry should have (it does not help at all that the standards for entries were lowered here) permanent custom titles to boost their egos a bit more and make them feel like they “stand out from the rest of the forum crowd,” or for any other reasons that might be similar to this. Like I said earlier, if you want to stand out on the forum, you should make excellent and thoughtful posts rather than doing the absolute minimum amount of work (or less than that) to get a custom title and a prize in the mail. Why not let your contributions speak for themselves?

But whether it is inexperience or the timelimit, it is clearly shown that numerous of these entries are the result of zero effort and plagiarism. Both points are no excuses there.

This, this most of all. I think that this is what annoys me the most about this whole April Fools episode: how shameless some users were in burning off 20 entries, most of which are just illegitimate on the whole. It irritates me a lot to think that certain users might be rewarded despite doing virtually nothing (and what makes it ten thousand times worse is the implication that they were entirely aware of this).

Apr 04, 2013 at 08:58PM EDT
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Well, I’d assume that they’ll be figured out once we figure out this absolute disaster that came out of it.

Seriously, did you read any of the thread? If prizes just straight-up go out, there’s gonna be a shitstorm. Don’t need to see the future to figure that one out.

Apr 08, 2013 at 01:47AM EDT
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Skeletor-sm

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