Forums / General

191,083 total conversations in 5,240 threads

+ New Thread


Plot Hole General

Last posted May 10, 2013 at 11:30PM EDT. Added May 09, 2013 at 03:39AM EDT
22 conversations with 14 participants

I don’t know why I felt compelled to make this thread, except that I re-watched The Dark Knight a few days ago, and all of this hit me like a school bus crashing through a mafia bank.

I wanted to discuss movies that people think are pretty good if not great, and yet when one looks closely at them, you see plot holes big enough to drive a police van through. Plot holes, not nit-picks.

So, The Dark Knight, in chronological order:

1. Dent asks Gordon for info before giving him search warrants for five Gotham banks. Gordon replies “I can tell you the names of the banks.” Isn’t that a given? Was anyone expecting Dent to give five blank search warrants?

2. Wayne’s “alibi” (which he needs for what reason?) to cover for him going to Hong Kong involves climbing into a plane full of Korean smugglers in front of the entire Russian ballet? What kind of “alibi” is that?

3. Fox goes to Hong Kong to… do what? Drop off a sonar-enabled cell phone in the lobby, which Batmen never enters? It appears that the phone affects…something in the building, but what, and why? The computer system turns off, as do some of the lights, but not not all of the lights, nor the telephone system.

4. Biggest one, IMO: The mayor tells Dent, “They get anything on you, those criminals are back on the streets…” This is a major theme in the second half of the movie and most of the next; since when is it a legal precedent that if a D.A. has committed any crime, (even after the trial) all criminals are released?

5. During the parade, Wayne goes to follow a lead, walking into a suspect’s apartment with no disguise. What was he expecting to do if Joker or his men were there?

6. Transporting Dent in the van, the street is blocked by a flaming vehicle, so why does the convoy switch to “lower 5th” where they’ll “be like turkeys on Thanksgiving” rather than simply switch to the completely clear far side of the road?

7. Mainly 1:12 to 2:00, but they’ve got some other good points:

8. Joker asks for “half” for killing Batman. He doesn’t kill Batman, so why does he get the money anyway?

9. The Joker demands someone murder Reese, and the police drop their plan to nab the Joker to evacuate hospitals and protect Reese. Then instead of keeping Reese sheltered indoors, they take him out in public, and Wayne hops in his car to personally protect him, not even knowing where he will be. How does any of this make the slightest sense?

10. Wayne and Fox have the technology to essentially tap into every single phone in the city. Why can’t they call the SWAT team on the radio?

11. How does Joker know that Dent has done anything at all since leaving the hospital?

May 09, 2013 at 03:39AM EDT
Quote

ConnerABacon wrote:

inb4 The Holy Bible.

I wanted to discuss movies that people think are pretty good if not great


While these are more well known, Brucker, they are pretty head-scratchy:

In The Dark Knight Rises, Bruce Wayne somehow manages to cross all of Europe and the Atlantic within what seems to be a few days with no passport, money, or foreign contacts (since he because a recluse for eight years). I know, he’s Batman, but really?

After he gets back, he somehow manages to cover the bridge with the world’s least fluid propellant and leave a fuel trail across hundreds of meters of ice… and why? He didn’t know that they would be taking the police officers out there.

May 09, 2013 at 02:31PM EDT
Quote

The Hiesenburg Compensator in Star Trek. To compensate for the Hiesenburg principle would mean changing the laws of physics…

May 09, 2013 at 02:39PM EDT
Quote

Sir Crona Gorgon, Sr. VII wrote:

The Hiesenburg Compensator in Star Trek. To compensate for the Hiesenburg principle would mean changing the laws of physics…

The whole concept of FTL travel, in Star Trek and everywhere else, by definition defies the laws of physics. That’s somewhat more egregious, I’d say.

May 09, 2013 at 02:42PM EDT
Quote

I have a friend who obsesses over finding plot holes in every single medium he watches/reads/plays. This basically results in him ruining everything I hold dear… Like Toy Story, for example. Buzz believes that he’s the honest-to-goodness Buzz Lightyear, and not a toy. BUT, whenever a human is around, he still freezes in place like the rest of the toys. :I

Or Harry Potter- when certain people get killed (trying to not spoiler but honestly, if you haven’t read or seen all of the series by now, that’s impressive), why don’t they use the time turner to go back and save them? I know that’s playing God and all, but isn’t commanding elemental powers, changing physics for your favor, and killing people at will with a flick of the wrist playing God too?

Or how about the Silent Hill movies. All of them. I know the games aren’t free of plot holes, but the amount of retconning that occurred between the first and second movies make my head spin. Not to mention the fact that Pyramid Head, a manifestation of guilt and bereavement that was solely meant to be experienced by James Sunderland in the second game is present. Or, in the second one, Heather can hear the siren that denotes a shift into the Otherworld, which could never happen to Heather because

Heather is the reincarnation of Cheryl and Alessa, or by movie canon Sharon and Alessa, meaning she was the one who projected siren noises into everyone else’s collective subconscious unknowingly, projecting the emergency siren noises she heard whilst being pulled from the flames that Travis Grady saved her from. This would imply not only that Heather is actually not an incarnation of either half of Alessa, but that she is simply a girl coincidentally named Heather, meaning she could never be capable of birthing Samael, meaning Valtiel would never bother with her, meaning Claudia would never send the Missionary to kill her father, meaning she wouldn’t have to go to Silent Hill in the first place.

Honestly. The siren is incredibly important, not just there to unnerve you. (Luckily for the writers, though, it does both.)

May 09, 2013 at 03:41PM EDT
Quote

Harshwhinny wrote:

I wanted to discuss movies that people think are pretty good if not great


While these are more well known, Brucker, they are pretty head-scratchy:

In The Dark Knight Rises, Bruce Wayne somehow manages to cross all of Europe and the Atlantic within what seems to be a few days with no passport, money, or foreign contacts (since he because a recluse for eight years). I know, he’s Batman, but really?

After he gets back, he somehow manages to cover the bridge with the world’s least fluid propellant and leave a fuel trail across hundreds of meters of ice… and why? He didn’t know that they would be taking the police officers out there.

Well crap, I missed that part.

embarrassed

May 09, 2013 at 04:22PM EDT
Quote

In Avatar, we are supposed to be happy they drove out the white man… errr humans and won, but in reality that’s like saying the Indians drove out the white man after Custers last stand and lived happily ever after.

May 09, 2013 at 04:34PM EDT
Quote

Dac wrote:

In Avatar, we are supposed to be happy they drove out the white man… errr humans and won, but in reality that’s like saying the Indians drove out the white man after Custers last stand and lived happily ever after.

Well, James Cameron said that if Avatar was successful, he would release two sequel movies. Obviously, the movie was massively successful so more than likely, that issue will probably be addressed in those sequels. I assume anyway. You never know with Hollywood sometimes.

May 09, 2013 at 05:06PM EDT
Quote

Jurassic Park… those embryos that one guy (I forgot his name, dammit!) dropped after being eaten by the frilly dinosaur! What ever happened to those? It shows them getting lost in the mud, but why even depict them afterwards then if they weren’t important? That was the only thing that I hated in Jurassic Park, and I love that movie!

May 09, 2013 at 05:27PM EDT
Quote

sting_auer wrote:

inb4 The Holy Bible.

Actually, why not literature? I’m actually more concerned with my implication that we ought to be discussing works that are good but flawed, so I wouldn’t want to see trashing of a movie/book/whatever because it was disliked (which is why most seem to criticize the Bible) but because something big just doesn’t add up. Of course, with the Bible, issues like that tend to boil down to theological issues.

In the second blog post I ever made I laid down my personal rationale for critiquing the Bible like a work of science fiction: You don’t come away from watching The Terminator and say, “That movie didn’t make any sense; there are no such thing as time-travelling robots!” If you don’t believe in God, the Bible is essentially irrelevant to you, but if you want to look at it critically, you have to view it from the viewpoint of the writers. But that’s turning into a bigger tangent than I intended, like how I spent a huge chunk of yesterday reading TVTropes’ page on the Bible which I loved, even the parts I disagreed with.

Crona Orunitia Is no longer missing wrote:

The Hiesenburg Compensator in Star Trek. To compensate for the Hiesenburg principle would mean changing the laws of physics…

Yeah, and that’s why sci-fi, fantasy, and mythology are always problematic WRT “plot holes”. Often you’re dealing with a story built on logical impossibilities. Luke has a solid light beam that can cut through anything? Bilbo has a ring that makes him invisible? Jesus has conversations with storm clouds? Wut?

Patrick’s mention of Harry Potter is interesting, though, because you have to think of the implications of the “rules” of magic in the HP universe, few of which are explicitly stated. My issue with said rules are: which ones are explicitly stated, and yet we see/read them defied? It seems to be quite clear that a wizard needs to have a wand to do magic, and yet there are multiple stories of children (especially Harry in the 1st book) doing magic before receiving a wand at age 11. Yet when it comes to Hogwarts, it’s the nature of wizard education that always puzzles me in a manner that I can’t decide whether it’s a nit-pick or not. Why do Wizards not study numerous non-magical subjects that would nonetheless be useful, such as grammar, mathematics, economics, foreign language, etc.? Yet of all things, astronomy is a required topic, even though there is no explanation whatsoever as to why anyone needs to know it.

May 09, 2013 at 08:07PM EDT
Quote

That was what I was bringing up when I mentioned the bible. I wasn’t just trying to bash it.

May 09, 2013 at 10:34PM EDT
Quote

@sting_auer:

Sure, but… It’s one of my favorite discussion topics, and I’ve gotten into many disagreements over what would constitute a “plot hole” for the Bible, as it’s obviously a hot button for a lot of people. I actually obviously enjoy such discussion, but it tends to turn into petty religious argument.

I guess what I’m trying to say carefully is that I wonder what you meant specifically and hope answering doesn’t result in a shitstorm. I certainly can accept that the Bible has issues, for instance the flood from Genesis 7, when examined rationally, has to be either an allegory, an exaggeration, or an event with so many physics-defying miracles stack upon one another that it becomes nonsensical to discuss. This guy does a great job of examining the meteorological side of the issue, for instance, which is just one aspect among many including biology, thermodynamics, and logistics.

@Katie C.:

Karate Kid’s another great movie that has some serious issues, although most of them are not immediately obvious. I suppose school bullying can be a complicated thing to deal with, but I’ve always thought it interesting that the main character has a guy from his school who is violently harassing him, so what does he do, tell his mother? No. Tell school authorities? No. Tell the police? No. Get his apartment complex’s maintenance guy to handle the problem? Sure! After all, he knows karate!

Karate Kid 2, while fun to watch, is an ever-unfolding dance in defiance of logic.

May 10, 2013 at 06:47PM EDT
Quote

When someone makes arrangements in a movie and says “ill pick you up at 8” how does he know where she lives?

May 10, 2013 at 07:17PM EDT

@Rimshot Vito:

Obviously it depends on the movie and the characters, but that was something I noticed the last time I watched Scot Pilgrim. The first time Scott and Ramona “hang out”, they show up at the appointed time at a park that neither of them had previously mentioned.

Hmm, should I catalog plot holes from Inception or the Star Wars movies next?

May 10, 2013 at 07:55PM EDT
Quote
Skeletor-sm

This thread is closed to new posts.

Old threads normally auto-close after 30 days of inactivity.

Why don't you start a new thread instead?

Hey! You must login or signup first!