Forums / Discussion / General

232,595 total conversations in 7,777 threads

+ New Thread


A Foundation for Development of Cat-Girls

Last posted Mar 02, 2015 at 02:58AM EST. Added Mar 01, 2015 at 10:34AM EST
26 posts from 12 users

Considering all the jokes about putting money towards Cat-Girl research around here, I was wondering how many people would actually want a foundation dedicated to the creation of cat/dog/fox boys and girls through either genetic or virtual means.

Discuss names, ethics and support for such a foundation bellow.

In real life, it would just be cosmetic genetic engineering, there would literally be no point to it other than having a human being with a tail and fangs (and that's assuming the subjects survive, and experimentation on fetuses usually end up with bad results.
Virtually, eh, I wouldn't know, most people looking for that kind of stuff would just look at mangas/visual novels for that.

Ethics are the one thing that I always attempt to not think about. The moment I start thinking of the ethics of this, my mind ends up going to war with itself. I guess it really depends on the intelligence of said cat-girls. If they took the intellect of a human, I would certainly be against domestic ownership. It would be much harder to decide if you had a cat-girl with the mentality and intellect of a cat, yet had the ability to speak. As for simply creating a new species, I see no problem with that.

Minty wrote:

In real life, it would just be cosmetic genetic engineering, there would literally be no point to it other than having a human being with a tail and fangs (and that's assuming the subjects survive, and experimentation on fetuses usually end up with bad results.
Virtually, eh, I wouldn't know, most people looking for that kind of stuff would just look at mangas/visual novels for that.

There's more than one way to skin a cat. Or, rather, give people cat tails.

Prosthetic limbs have come a long way, purrhaps we could develop a prosthetic tail which can also have feeling in it.

Virtual cat-girls seems like the best solution to me though. But manga/visual novels are just static reproductions. The idea of creating cat-girls implies creating a semi-sapient being. After some thought, I think an artificially intelligent cat-girl we can interact with would be optimal.

….. What do you mean by names? If you are asking what to call catgirls…. The official name for people with animal ears is kemonomimi.

Anyway, I think we should have kemonomimi people through genetics. Either we give them ears at birth, or have volunteers sign up for ears. They can ask how animal-like they want to be.

I think all kemonomimi people should have human intelligence, and there will be no owning of them. Just having them exist is enough for me. X3

Virtual cat girls should exist too if you really want to own them.

I guess that would be impossible to have a Cat Girl as pet
You know, slavery (I can even imagine a Loli Inu Girl Abraham Lincoln) and that stuff, but cat girl girlfriend is another thing

What I'm saying is that protesis biologicas could be a possibility in the future, of course, to make that, we need to, somehow, modify the Human genome to make the assimilation of this protesis (and organ transplant) more easy to assimilate without repercussions.
But again, Biology is not one of my strengths

Bman95 wrote:

Ethics are the one thing that I always attempt to not think about. The moment I start thinking of the ethics of this, my mind ends up going to war with itself. I guess it really depends on the intelligence of said cat-girls. If they took the intellect of a human, I would certainly be against domestic ownership. It would be much harder to decide if you had a cat-girl with the mentality and intellect of a cat, yet had the ability to speak. As for simply creating a new species, I see no problem with that.

Well, obviously the ethics of the genetic way are incredibly muddy. Especially when you consider the likelyhood of something going incredibly wrong.

If we went with virtual cat-girls, I think that we should try to give them a near-human intelligence. But one of the ideas I've had about artificial intelligence is applying the principals of psychology to ensure that any artificial-intelligence we create be as mentally healthy as possible. Schema theory, and Schachter–Singer theory, if changed slightly in artificial intelligence could create a much more stable person than actual people.

Cecaelia Girlie: ….. What do you mean by names? If you are asking what to call catgirls…. The official name for people with animal ears is kemonomimi.

I think he means what to call the organization and such.

David (The NSFW guy) wrote:

I guess that would be impossible to have a Cat Girl as pet
You know, slavery (I can even imagine a Loli Inu Girl Abraham Lincoln) and that stuff, but cat girl girlfriend is another thing

What I'm saying is that protesis biologicas could be a possibility in the future, of course, to make that, we need to, somehow, modify the Human genome to make the assimilation of this protesis (and organ transplant) more easy to assimilate without repercussions.
But again, Biology is not one of my strengths

@Cecaelia
"What do you mean by names?" I meant names for the foundation. I was thinking The Fluffy Tail Galatea Foundation. Galatea being the wife of the mythological character Pygmalion, who made her out of ivory.

@David
A virtual Cat-Girl pet sounds much more ethical. But, I'd agree, that any human cat-girls would definitely have to have the same rights as everyone else.

So as a recap, here's the ideas we have so far:

Genetics/Living Cat-Girls:
-genetic manipulation
-cosmetic surgery
-neurally connected prosthetic tail

Virtual:
-manga/static representations
-artificial intelligence

Excuse me for getting a little social justice-y up in this thread, but whenever the idea of genetically modified living catgirls comes up I can't help but get squicked out by the implications. On the surface living cat girls would be totally cool and in a purrfect world they would live among us like normal people who happen to have cat ears and tails. However, I can't help but think this would not happen at all if we were to somehow make cat girls exists. I imagine a lot of people (if not most) would just treat them like living sex objects and we'd end up with this seedy underground sex slave trade of cat girls. These cat girls would probably be made incapable of living a normal life because people would only treat them like pets or sex toys. My mind just can't help but go to these dark places. So, yeah, I don't really support the idea of real life catgirls

Crimson Locks wrote:

Excuse me for getting a little social justice-y up in this thread, but whenever the idea of genetically modified living catgirls comes up I can't help but get squicked out by the implications. On the surface living cat girls would be totally cool and in a purrfect world they would live among us like normal people who happen to have cat ears and tails. However, I can't help but think this would not happen at all if we were to somehow make cat girls exists. I imagine a lot of people (if not most) would just treat them like living sex objects and we'd end up with this seedy underground sex slave trade of cat girls. These cat girls would probably be made incapable of living a normal life because people would only treat them like pets or sex toys. My mind just can't help but go to these dark places. So, yeah, I don't really support the idea of real life catgirls

Yeah, obviously any living catgirls would just be cosmetic choices made by volunteers. But what about virtual cat-girls with an artificial intelligence?

I think if we want true catgirls (and any other human with a touch of another species added) we probably have to wait at least a decade or two for our understanding of genetics to further advance. Ultimately what we need to know how to do is locate and lift the DNA sequences from Felis catus that exactly correspond to the formation of the ears, tail et cetera, and on the other end of it the exact DNA sequences of Homo sapiens that need to be replaced to allow for those changes, plus any extra tweaks that need to be made to avoid unintended abominable mutations. And for even as hard as that sounds, in reality it's even harder. We're not talking about plants here.
Now obviously this is something that you would only do with an artificial lifeform grown in a lab- it's certainly impossible after insemination of any kind, and even modifying the chromosomes in sperm and egg cells separately before artificial insemination is probably way too difficult, especially because of how unpredictably those chromosomes behave once they meet.

As for the ethics of it- some people are saying in this thread that it would be "impossible" for them to be pets. That really makes me scratch my head, because the way I see it that'd be the only purpose for creating them. Why do it in the first place if they're just going to live their lives like normal people. Okay, you may be saying, but then wouldn't it be immoral and basically slavery if they were to be treated that way? In my opinion, there's only one solution to that problem, and it's not an easy one:
Make them want to be pets- happy, even overjoyed, to serve that role.
Well shit, now we've thrown a whole new unabridged-dictionary-sized book of scientific and ethical issues onto the table. How genes correspond to personality is perhaps the least understood area in all of human biology. Where in the hell are the dominant/submissive genes exactly? Nobody has a clue. So there's probably at least an extra decade or research required? But is it okay to manipulate free will in such a way? That could literally be debated for centuries without a clear consensus ever emerging. I personally tend to lean towards "yes", only because I don't see a problem with doing the same thing to a robot with human-level AI, and these creatures would just as much products of human ingenuity as those robots. But I'm still acutely aware of fairly legitimate arguments that could be made for the other side of the issue.

When it comes to building an artificial intelligence, I don't know too much about coding, but I have a decent understanding of psychology. So I'm going to try to define some of the necessary systems we'd need to create a virtual cat-girl who'll make for an excellent pet or companion.

These systems would include
-emotion
-consciousness (with a comprehension of language)
-memory
-mobility

I think I'll start with emotion for now. And obviously, we'd want our cat girls and boys to have a large capacity for loving, trust, happiness, obedience(?), and fun. I'll see what I can come up with.

If I seemingly leave something out, or you have a good idea to include, tell me, and I'll see if I can include it.

Alrighty… Emotion

For this, I based my systems off of the two factor theory of emotion and the model for emotions in kismet

Now, this system is only the model for how emotions are produced and how we remember them, not how they effect behavior.

The first part, which relates to things that directly effect our cat-girl, is
Y=C*X
where C= a positive or negative number that represents the cat-girl's analysis of the situation and the context. C=B+W+N+O+M Where B is the effect the event had on the cat-girl's body, W is the well-being of the cat-girl, N is how close the cat-girl's identity is perceived to be to the cat-girl norm during and because of the event, O is how the cat-girl perceives others are effected by the event, and M is how much the event moves the cat-girl towards her goal. All of these numbers can be positive or negative, where positive means better/good, and negative means bad/worse.
X=a positive number which represents a unit of hormone, which is triggered by certain event and stimuli. A hormone can mean multiple things, for example, being touched can result in, say alpha hormone, being produced. If the calculated context of C is greater than 0, then that touch will be a positive emotion, and recorded as a positive memory, if C is less than 0, then that touch will be perceived as a negative emotion. The amount of hormone is directly related to the intensity and nature of the event which triggers it.

Y is the emotion, or memory of the emotion, calculated here as positive or negative units of hormone-based emotions.

When it comes to events that do not directly relate to the cat-girl, her emotions are represented by the equation Y=N+E+B+S
Here, N is novelty, E is empathy, B is beauty, and S is significance. Y, in this case, is represented in positive or negative units of abstract based emotions.

If an event both directly and indirectly effects the cat-girl, then both equations are used, and the two Y's are averaged together.

Memories which have high amounts of Y(emotions), negative or positive, are easier to retrieve.

The value for any piece of that equation can be manipulated so that certain characteristic are emphasized. This is because the units for the factors are almost entirely arbitrary, but they will probably need to be well balanced out and fine-tuned so that one factor doesn't overwhelm the others. But, once it is fine-tuned to appropriate levels, you could just multiply the empathy values times two to make the cat-girl more empathetic, or multiple the alpha hormone by two to make her emotions based off touch stronger. This will, however, work both ways.

Maybe there's no need to create your own catgirl/boy. What if such a race already exists somewhere in this vast universe? We just need to go out and find them and be space friends and maybe even more. What's that? You married one of those catgirls/boys but can't have kitties because of incompatible dna? She/He really loves you and wants to start a family? Well you know what you need? A healthy dose of…

We're exploring the universe so we have the technology to bypass those pesky genetic problems.
So go out and explore space cowboy, your loving neko is waiting out there for you.

Guess I'll tackle memory next. Right now, I think I'll just talk about long term memory, and for this purpose I've based my system off of schema theory

Obviously, there are certain things we remember better such as things with heavy emotions, things with high importance, and things that happened recently. Therefor, if we want our AI's to emulate us and live in the present, and not be completely scatter brained, we should create three number lines. One for time, one for importance and one for emotion. Each event the AI experiences should fall on those lines independently, where time is represented as a percentage of time from the present in regards to her life. Importance would probably require another complex system where goals are ranked and memories of events that relate to it are ranked by their relevance. The emotional value would have been produced by the system I described in the last post.

Once we have all these values, we can add them all up. This can be represented by the equation E+T+I=V where V equals the ultimate value we need to rank memories.

To emulate schema theory, a simple tagging system would probably work, much like the one KYM uses for its images. For each event our CG has, her memory would have associated words and concepts filed under it. Similar to KYM's tagging system, there would be related events/memories which are under a tag that the current event our CG is thinking about. So, when she thinks about checkers, for example, she may remember playing checkers in a park, so she may start thinking about a park. This is where the values we calculated earlier come in, with that we can rank the memories related to the memory she's currently thinking of. Memories with the highest ranking in the related tags are displayed first with ones with the lowest rankings displayed last.

>mfw people seriously want to genetically engineer cat girls

Really this would be a horrible idea. We have enough problems with racism in the world and now you want to introduce human-animal hybrids? And its insane to even propose that a person be made a cat girl at birth seeing as they can give no consent. The only semi-realistic way this could happen is if they were to grow the ears and tail in a lab and surgically attach them to consenting adults. But as Crimson said there's the whole underground sextrade thing. We still have people being kidnapped and sold into prostitution today as sex slaves, so on top of that you now add a market for cat girls.

Really your best hope for this is to have a girl put on cat ears for you or use oculus rift. Or if you want to wait a few decades someone might make a cat girl android, but of course if you do keep it as a pet you might want to keep it a secret as everyone will know your fucking it.

Old Man GigaChad wrote:

>mfw people seriously want to genetically engineer cat girls

Really this would be a horrible idea. We have enough problems with racism in the world and now you want to introduce human-animal hybrids? And its insane to even propose that a person be made a cat girl at birth seeing as they can give no consent. The only semi-realistic way this could happen is if they were to grow the ears and tail in a lab and surgically attach them to consenting adults. But as Crimson said there's the whole underground sextrade thing. We still have people being kidnapped and sold into prostitution today as sex slaves, so on top of that you now add a market for cat girls.

Really your best hope for this is to have a girl put on cat ears for you or use oculus rift. Or if you want to wait a few decades someone might make a cat girl android, but of course if you do keep it as a pet you might want to keep it a secret as everyone will know your fucking it.

Or did you consider that in a few decades people might be more accepting?
Otherwise the problem is for all practical purposes an artificial lifeform with a genetically modified appearance, personality and desires to meet a certain role is pretty much the same as an android. One is a "machine" made out of flesh and blood, the other with metal and plastic- sooner than you may think, the differences will be unnoticeable. (Go watch Blade Runner to see what I'm talking about.)
So perhaps the other strategy for creating a catgirl will end up being easier and more practical in the end. But it'll still be at least a few years before we find out.

I suppose I should come of with the system for importance and meaning. This one was a bit harder, since I wasn't sure if I should include cuil's as a factor (degrees away from the subject at hand.) If someone can figure out a way to do that, It'd be much appreciated. I decided to use Maslow's hierarchy of needs as the basis for this.

So, the equation I came up with here was (A+B^2+C^3+D^4)+P=I

A is the top bit of Maslow's pyramid, self-actualization/transcendence. D is the bottom and the others go in order. The bottom one here is safety, as the actual bottom one is physiology, things like breathing which aren't needed in memory. Since the closer you get to the bottom, the more critical they get, which is why they get raised to a higher power, to indicate the larger importance. Each event that goes into our cat girl's memory will have to be ranked on Maslow's hierarchy to determine its importance, since any given event can affect multiple levels of the hierarchy. P represents pertinence and is a percent of time between now and a certain point in the future, say, twenty years where the present is 0% and the future point is 100%. Whatever that percent, it's then treated as a real number in the equation and no longer a percent. And finally I=importance, and can be used in the ranking of memories like in the last post.

So hey! There's a mathematical model for meaning, emotion and memory for you. No idea if it would work IRL though.

Skeletor-sm

This thread is closed to new posts.

Old threads normally auto-close after 30 days of inactivity.

Why don't you start a new thread instead?

Hi! You must login or signup first!