Forums / Discussion / Meme Research

That's what I originally said, as well.

However, do you think that KYM should document those as well?

They may be confirmed on the basis of spread outside of the subculture, but if a person wanted to know more about something they saw within the fandom, should we have an article where we describe what is, still, and Internet phenomenon (confirmed or not?)

I think the expected concern would be that this could allow for the creation of a lot of articles, not only from the FiM fandom but from within other subcultures as well. But the alternative is not documenting enough to be a comprehensive source for 'Net phenomena.

The logical thing to do is to document all the inside jokes whithin the subculture entries themselves.

For Example, Who the Hell do you think I am? is clearly an inside joke within Gurren Laggan fans, having little to no meaning outside of the fanbase. An entry such as this should be deadpooled. However, if a Subculture entry for Gurren Laggan was ever made, a mention of this line should be added within it, with the entry tagged appropriately so that people looking the phrase up will be directed toward the entry.

This, of course, brings up the fact that the all the subculture entries will get WAY TOO BIG, but we do have Spoiler Buttons if needed.

If we want to document in-jokes and community-contained memes, we need a new category.
Something along the lines of Sub-Meme: memes being cultural information, sub-memes being sub-cultural information.

I´m actually kinda disappointed that I have to hear this from you. Knowing nearly every Touhou meme lacks spread outside of the Touhou fandom, plus how Touhou itself even has limited spread on the western web, you're basically making an invalid argument.

If I have to take example, you´re directly giving me one with your latest entry: Love Colored Master Spark. I doubt that one has any spread outside of the Touhou fandom.

So with this post you're indirectly saying your own entry isn't a meme.

But then again, like I said many times before already in this thread, spread outside of a specific group or fandom is NOT a must for something to be a meme. I've already listed enough other examples, so I won't do that again.

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@MDF

Alright then, here we go.

1. Derpy Hooves: No comment needed.
2. Wingboner/Clopping: First of all, it's a confirmed entry. Second of all, it has notable spread. Being used as slang and in fanart plus connections with other well known slang phrases such as fapping. Will not get deadpooled.
3. Those 4 character related entries. For starters, all of those 4 are confirmed. Second, they all show notable spread on various sections. You might not see them quite as often as bronies, but they have gained plenty of spread outside of the fandom as well. Will not get deadpooled.
4. Fluttershy Holding Things. I understand your request for a namechange, but I believe it works best like this. For example entries like "What 4chan Cries Out During Sex" keep their titles related to the origin. But it can do with a rewrite, I agree. I'll see if I can do something about that later.
5. Why Wub Woo: No comment needed.
6. Cupcakes: Has spread to the creation of the character Pinkamena. Plus other notable spread. The confirm status is legit. No further comments needed.
7. Bronyspeak: You flatter me. No comment needed.
8. Luna Game / Story of the Blanks: I agree that these two might warrant a merge. Spread is limited and merging them into an entry about notable creepypasta games can save their ass.
9. Pony Reactions: Image section might have become a dumping ground, but I'm ok with it in this case. Screencaps and drawings have generated so many reaction faces related to MLP, it certainly is notable.
10. Flutterrage / Flutterbitch: Notable within the fandom and even somewhat outside of the fandom. Also made notable spread as a exploitable and as usage in Sparta Remixes. Perhaps you didn't come across it as much. But trust me, it's big.
11. Sweetie Belle Derelle: No comment needed, I fully agree.
12. Pony Re-Imaginings: This one needs a MAJOR clean-up. Many of those are notable, but the entry really supresses them and makes them all look like shit. They deserve a combined entry, but one so much better than the current one. I was already planning to give that entry a clean-up, the Pinkie Pie entry was a part of that for example. It was a bit too much of a meme dumping ground.
13. Foreeeever: Have discussed this with Platus before. We agree it might warrant a merge with Bronyspeak. I think I'll throw it into discussion in the IRC before making a final decision.
14. Discord: Very tricky. The main reason for that entry is to cover Discord-related memes, not the character itself. But because there is no main focus on a certain meme, it covers the character. Perhaps I'll change it later, can't really give a conclusion yet.
15. My Little Pony Character Fandom: No, I disagree. This entry has turned into a dumping ground for background and secondary characters. We aren't covering the memes, just the characters. I often think this one deserves a deadpool. These characters don't need a mention on the site.
16. Tom Dan: This isn't deadpooled yet? Gonna do that when this is posted. Lacks way too much spread and notability to be given an entry, even within the brony fandom.
17. My Little Pony Art Fads: Covers the notable art fads in one entry. But I can't really give a full opinion on it yet. For now I think it should stay as it is.
18. Ponification: Disagree. This one should be kept seperate. The art of Ponification is so freaking huge within the fandom that it generated its own Rule of the Internet. That is what makes it notable. Plus also great notability outside of the fandom, nearly every non-brony knows that bronies like to make art of existing (fictional) characters.
19. Fluffly Ponies: Agree with your comment, no further explanation needed.
20. Lyra Plushie: The auction was an event and gained much notability even outside of the fandom. It has gained so much attention that the plushie itself has turned into a meme. The meme tag is legit imo, but I'll ask some others in the IRC.
21. Pinkie Pie Breaking The 4th Wall: Shows spread and even acceptance by the creators. But as it's a fresh entry, I can't really give a full explanation yet.

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ThatsNotCanon Wrote:

I haven’t seen any spread of Pony-memes outside of the brony community. Except in trolling attempts. That is what you people are the the rest of the internet: People forcing memes and trolling with your girls show.

First, that "girls show" is a very bad argument, but that's not what we're here for.

Bronies hold back the usage of pony memes on purpose. You and I both know the reactions ponies get if they are posted in places outside of the brony community. Often resulting in shitstorms and negative feedback. Both people like you and bronies aren't in a mood for that, so they purposely avoid using ponies to avoid all the shit posting them might cause. Cut them some slack.

^Yet they still do cause those shitstorms. Are you expecting me to believe that the only people who ever post ponies outside of pony threads are non-brony trolls?
Well, they are not, they are bronies. MLP FIM loving-bronies. The same people who preach 'love and tolerance' and then force what-they-call memes down our throats.

But enough about that
Random Man: 'I´m actually kinda disappointed that I have to hear this from you. Knowing nearly every Touhou meme lacks spread outside of the Touhou fandom, plus how Touhou itself even has limited spread on the western web, you’re basically making an invalid argument'

I believe that those Touhou 'memes' aren't worthy of a Confirmed status.
The same goes for The pony memes:
Knowyourmeme is a website for documenting Internet phenomena, for the Internet at large.
If an entry has little-to-no spread outside of a specific fandom I can't see how it represents a trend on the internet as a whole
And therefore, is not worthy of a confirmed status.

@Random Man: Indeed. When I made that entry I was doubtful myself, but I had found enough content to go forward. I had seen plenty of material and a small amount of spread outside of the Touhou fanbase (mainly in the Nico Nico Melodies at least twice), even a potential (what I thought to be an) Iosys remix that I could go research later.

If things where going to go downhill for that entry, I would have requested a community judgement for a potential deadpool or confirm after it's finished. Fact is, we never do this. If the entry is in good condition, we never deadpool it even if it isn't a meme, and just stays in Limbo forever. (But this is a small problem, for a different thread.)

After a long walk filled with thinking about this, I have had a change of heart.

Memes are common ideas (or stupid jokes) shared among thousands of people. It doesn't matter if it's tied to a fanbase or not, if it's presence online is great enough it can be a meme and we can document it.

So let the pony entries come! Subculture Submeme or not, it lived, it grew, it spread, it died. Let all the entries come! My body is ready.

All the people trying to argue their opinion about Bronies in this thread need to sincerely GET OUT. This thread is about discussing the necessity of various MLP articles, not ones personal opinion on Bronies.

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Now, moving on:

I like the idea of revising how each meme is categorized and I would like to touch on that subject a bit more.

Reading this makes me think that the single category of "meme" isn't really enough to cover all the different subjects we have documented here.

In fact I am beginning to suspect there are multiple types of meme that range in complexity of significance. Some memes are some are fast and explosive, other are slow and procedural. Some memes are viral and global, others remain in-jokes to where they originated.

The MLP memes categorized here fit several of those descriptions and part of all this confusion may be coming from that. However I'll leave the naming of different meme types for another topic.

Focusing on the categorization of MLP memes, I created a real quick example

Note that this isn't my final solution on everything should be categorized, I'm just throwing a real quick sample out here to give you guys an idea.

Basically what I am getting at here is a tree structure navigation system for browsing each of these pages. Users coming to the home page will see the parent entry first which starts at the fandom. They will see just that and if they want to know more, they can expand the branches and see what additional memes lie inside of it. But if they don't want to know, they can avoid the parent article and thus everything else it entails

If a user navigates directly for one of the fandoms sub-memes (I.E: A search), they can follow the branches back up to the fandom. We've got something a bit like that already since most MLP articles link back to the main one (but not all, which should be fixed IMO)

Would something like this help reduce the amount of omnipresence MLP has on KYM while at the same time giving us full freedom to document absolutely every tiny thing about it? What do you think?

Sorry to butt in, but if I could just throw in my two cents. Since this is KYM we're dealing with, let's consult KYM on memes.

Memes can be broadly defined as culturally transmitted information, or ideas and beliefs that can be spread from one organism, or group of organisms, to another. A key component to the meme concept is that the information is able to self-replicate, and in turn undergoes a type of natural selection, much like genes.

Internet memes are typically associated with media, catchphrases, and more general trends that spread throughout various outlets on the World Wide Web like chat clients, blogs, social networking sites, email, forums and image boards. It’s often used to point out how trends online evolve and change over time, creating various new derivatives.

I fail to see where it states that memes cannot be held within subcultures.

My Images are making it into actual forum weapons; I feel accomplished.

Now on the matter at hand; I feel conflicted. Are there a lot of pony entries? Yes. Can some of them be grouped to make less pages? Yes. Should an entire other website be made just for ponies? Not in a million years. You see there are a lot of memes about it, but that's just what's "in" now. It's just a big thing on the internet, whether you see that as good or bad. There's little to nothing any of us can do to "change" anything about it. It's an internet trend, and hey, that's what we document. It's just our duty to document it as the site. If it ticks you off, stop complaining and just stay on the rest of the site. (Not that every other entry doesn't have multiple pony crossover pictures, but still.)

Of course, there could be something to be done here specifically. If some of the articles could just be grouped together, and that would make it seem like less articles and feel less overwhelming. If the fans would agree to stop uploading a new picture about it every thirty seconds to the image section, it would be more balanced and we could get rid of the "Show Fewer Ponies" button nonsense. On the other websites that already exist just for that one fandom, you can go crazy and preach all you want, but on here remember we're about all memes, and they should at least be somewhat equal, so try to tone down the zeal. If both sides in this oh so holy war would just compromise a little the whole website would go so much smoother for everyone.

…Did I really just type out two paragraphs about this at 3 AM?

I'm not complaining at all. In fact, I find this entire thread rather amusing. The only person who could be considered complaining is the person who started.
All I'm doing is bringing up a point. Let's say, about 1/3 of internet users are bronies, right? Well, about three quarters of KYM is bronies. About half of those guys are political bronies, who match up every other internet meme with ponies and watch Rainbow Dash porn in their spare time.
Another thing, people on KYM bitch and whine about whenever someone posts an entry that doesn't come from 4chan, Reddit, or Tumblr (the latter two I don't agree with, they're just photo fads :/) Allow this rage comic to demonstrate:

I still don't see how anyone can think that a single fandom represents the entirety of the internet (and therefore, is conform worhty)

At any rate, we need to deadpool/delete/merge/Whatever the Pony meme which have no notable spread in OR out of the brony culture
I personally think that a meme shouldn't get a Confirm if it's only notable inside it's fandom tbh.

I find that image both incorrect and offensive. We probably have more entries on this site about memes that didn't originate from the sites you mentioned, and most of them will be confirmed.

but back on topic, I've been doing some thinking about what RandomMan said about the character fandom page and I have come to a conclusion: I agree. The secondary characters and fillies part is completely pointless. It's explaining the origin of the characters more than the spread, which should be the focus (they're more like an overview you would find on a mlp wiki). Half of those characters either don't have anything memetic about them, or already have entries anyway (the same goes with the last two sections as well when I think about it). I would think the same goes for this as with subcultures a fandom shouldn't necessarily give it a mention. As previously said, it's like creating an entry for the cast of homestuck, they're popular, but they do not need an entry. Every character will have fans, but would you create an entry for every character in existence? no you wouldn't. So the first two sections aren't needed.
Now onto Background ponies and original creations: See above. Most have okay fandoms, but the bigger ones worthy of entries already have them. I'm not sure about the original creations bit, But there is one part that annoys me: the rule 63 ponies. What makes them big enough to warrant a mention? Because it's MLP? Even as a brony I know it shouldn't be there. We already have a rule 63 entry, so if it is big and notable, say it there. The other ponies bit is another thing. If Lauren Faust the Alicorn is big, you could mention it in ponyfication. Surprise i'm not sure about though, as it does seem big.

TL:DR-Most of the character fandom page is not needed, and can be gotten rid of. Therefore I believe that the page should be deadpooled.

My goodness, this thread is nearly leaking with smart argumental etiquette, I…I don't know what to add, I'm not really sure what to respond with despite me wanting to take part…

Besides…

Memes are memes, but if they are short lived and are, which many assume out of a fresh 'meme' and are MLP related, people will believe it needn't an entry and it isn't wise to make an entirely new article out of the 'quarantine zone' they call the MLP article. People become sceptical about memes as more and more 'memes' submitted to the site are forgotten and left in the submission stage.

To be honest though, when I typed that up, I wasn't feeling very focused, I have other things to do, things more serious than MLP entries stuck in flying arguments about whether they should stay.

I say that we should give all these so called memes a fair chance, in the spirit of friendship! I mean, that's a trait of us humans right?

^Again, a single fandom does not represent the entirety of the interwebs, so therefore a meme which is only spread within One fandom should not be confirmed.

If a meme spreads within a fandom then it is still a meme and still deserves an entry

^How so?

Because we document memes whether they're an in-joke in a fandom, or somthing the whole internet uses

So you're saying that a meme which is spread throughout one fandom, but may never be seen outside of that fandom, would be allowed a Confirmation?

yes. A meme is a meme no matter what

Your point is questionable, yet logically correct.

This is why it's impossible to have a reasonable conversation with you people.
We're just talking in circles now anyway, and i doubt anything will come from this.
I'm out. Unsubbed
kthnxbai

You're saying you can't have a reasonable conversation with you because we refuse to agree with you? I'm sorry, but when you're wrong, you're wrong. There's no point in agreeing with false facts. I'd love to believe Optimus Prime took down the confederacy for a greater america. But that's just plain wrong, I can't agree with it.

We're going in circles because you continue to bring up the same points that we have proven false. So if you can't handle the fact your definition of memes is incorrect, that's not our fault. But if you're honestly trying to blame us for it because we refuse to agree with you, then go. Intelligent life doesn't need you. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out, provided you can figure out how to use the doorknob.

Haven't posted here before, but I found the discussion interesting, so here's my two pence on fandom-specific memes:

1. If an idea is rapidly spread within a relatively large amount of people, it's a meme. If it's done through the internet, it's an internet meme. If the the meme is spread throughout a lot of people, why does it matter if the people it's spread through all like a certain thing (e.g. My Little Pony, Homestuck, Pokemon), as opposed to people who don't share as many interests (e.g. Advice Animals, Photo Fads, Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like)? Such memes might be content specific, but not always (e.g. "Fluttershy holding things" is basically Character X watching TV, even though it started as a pony).

2. From what I can see KYM isn't here to represent the whole internet, but to document it, so it needn't be balanced, but objective in its reporting. So if something is popular among a lot of people on the internet, it doesn't make much sense to suppress it just because those who are spreading it are part of a particular fandom, to give some sort of illusion of balance. And why present just a general overview of memes spread throughout the internet, when you can also detail some of the clusters of memes that are popular but less "mainstream"? To draw a somewhat tenuous analogy, a site that documented religious culture (i.e. memeplexes) wouldn't document only things that were spread throughout several religions, it'd also go into some detail about beliefs specific to each religion. Which leads me to my last point:

3. It's useful. People who are curious about a specific internet-based fandom will want to know about things that are prominent within that fandom. You aren't wasting paper here, so if an entry is notable enough to be useful to a reader (i.e. somewhat widespread on the internet, irrespective of what fandom the people are part of) and falls within the site's criteria, why not have at it? If a distinction between general memes and fandom-specific memes needs to be drawn with separate categories, that seems reasonable, but I don't see why that information need be thrown out just because it's a bit more localized than other stuff.

3. It’s useful. People who are curious about a specific internet-based fandom will want to know about things that are prominent within that fandom. You aren’t wasting paper here, so if an entry is notable enough to be useful to a reader (i.e. somewhat widespread on the internet, irrespective of what fandom the people are part of) and falls within the site’s criteria, why not have at it? If a distinction between general memes and fandom-specific memes needs to be drawn with separate categories, that seems reasonable, but I don’t see why that information need be thrown out just because it’s a bit more localized than other stuff.

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Again, this has been said, and I think it's the best reason to document memes within a subculture. To merge it with the main article would either make an already massive article larger, it would be an unorganized entry for media (e.g., if you put Pinkie Breaking the 4th Wall with other memetic concepts, the videos and images for it would be mixed up with them. And you couldn't as easily find media related to a section within an entry.)

If you choose to not document it at all, then there would be a trend that would be of interest to people, but we wouldn't have any organized page for it. With that in mind, I feel as if well-written and well-researched articles (even if they aren't confirmed) are the best approach to fandom-specific memes. Perhaps they could be confirmed based upon other criteria (i.e. out of fandom spread,) but I don't think that they should be deadpooled unless they have little spread or aren't notable at all.
 
Is there any disagreement on that still? If so, then we need to get past that before we "move on."

So yeah, Pinkie Pie breaking the fourth, will that by any chance grow to become a meme? Old arguments aside, the entry needs more work.

^This. However, I still believe that FOREVER should be merged with Bronyspeak as I don't think it is big enough to warrant it's own entry just yet and the character fandom page be deadpooled due to 1. It being more like a pony wiki page and 2. The majority either don't have a big enough fandom anyway or already covered in their own entry, as detailed in an earlier post.

I'm a brony and It's getting hard to find things now. I'm practically swimming in pony memes, to find one picture I saw. Better merging/organizing is probably the way to go. Just minimize the number of entries.

To the bit about the MLP clogs up most liked etc I kind of agree but still the fact is that because there's a huge fandom where as other separate memes usually don't have fandoms just people who like the meme.

Bronies will like anything MLP where as non-bronies choose the pictures of a meme they like which is what the most liked should be not "well my fandom is the biggest that's why my fandoms always front page."

This→ /)(^3^)(\ is supposed to be Rainbow Dash's Why Wub Woo face in text form. And I do not care at all for the sub entries, but I will say there are kind of a bit too many.
I don't want KYM to be remembered as a pony site either, but there are literally more than enough images everywhere I go. I have seen less Homestuck, Adventure Time, Legend of Zelda, LOTR, Sonic, and even Pokemon themed pictures on this site than MLP themed ones. Literally, the fandom that that I am not in that I see make parodies of the most memes is FiM. And there are so many pictures of them and of ponies that I can not tolerate the bronies' existence. I posted a comment below the video "how mlp is redefining masculinity" and it was so long, it had to take up four different comments. It was basically why I show much anger towards bronies and that it was not all ignorant "uh bronies are gay and childish" stuff. In that comment, I described pictures of ponies as "anime on steroids". I was not acting mad when I typed that, it is my honest judgement of the bronies and the spreading of their stuff.
Sorry for saying too much, but bronies make me get furious at them. And the #1 reason why is how often their pictures appear on one of my favorite websites, and that I do have interest for the show nor the bronies. There are plenty of other reasons why, but that would take even longer of a post. If you do want to know why read my 4-part comment under the "bronies redefining masculinity" video.

*don't have interest

^ Please ignore him.

If you for example take a part from his four part comment:

I have challenged this cartoon every single day since I saw it. And so far, I remain no brony. I am a professional troll, I an invincible, I am clever, I am versatile, and I am smart about how bronies behave. I am like a brony psychologist.

You can see he's just bragging as his post shows clear signs of butthurt from bronies.

Know your pony is now Know your pony. This post makes it official.

I did want to ask about the 4th wall thing, though. Maybe we should make a page for the fourth wall.

Hey, look at me! Everyone thinks I'm a pony hater, but I'm abusing my mod privileges to literally necro this thread to ask a question.

I feel like I've seen it before somewhere, but I'm not sure, and I certainly can't find a KYM entry on it: What do people know about Brony Mike? Is it showing any spread? Is it used almost entirely to make anti-Brony jokes, or does it work both ways?

This is literally the first time I hear of it. And based on the average scores those things got plus the very small variety in text and jokes, I think it was most likely just a small 4chan thing that lasted a few threads.

Also, if you call that a meme, I have this for you: Socially Awkward Brony

Compared to Mike with his 200 variations, that has over 400.

Wow, they've got some good ones! Did you catch Socially Awesome Brony?

Not to mention…

Too many My Little Pony threads.

Actually, that's the reason I necro'd this one instead of starting a new one. I tend to agree.

>go to KYM
>type pokemon in search field
>hit enter

Looks like a mixed bag to me.

Too many indeed:

Was that really needed?

Yes. Yes it was.

you sir make a very good point :D