Forums / Maintenance / Suggest Ideas

I know we've had this discussion before, but I feel it needs bringing up again and my recent ban for arguing with an image mod seals it.
The entry upload guidelines and NSFW guidelines
I see Mods in IRC all the time bringing links and asking "should this be deleted?". I will look at it and say no and why it shouldn't, they may agree and another mod will end up deleting it anyway.
I recently saw several threads of users asking why Images are being moved or deleted. Mods are deleting images and quoting rules that are true in a sense but not true as whole i.e.threads like this

So my reason for this thread is:
A) to discuss why Mods are not on the same page when it comes to the rules
B) can we make it more clear so that we don't have mods "harassing" users with warnings
C) get mods that know an image macro can be uploaded in more than one entry
D) have the mods stop looking so hard to find things wrong i.e. asking is that a nipple? (if you have to look that hard and ask then no it isn't)
E) get back to having a fun site about memes without worrying if you will be scolded for something you find funny and/or worthy of an entry

I know I'm not the only one who feels that some mods are taking it too serious, looking too hard and trying too hard to find rule violations. Some mods just think they are following the rules that are set but really are interpreting them one way and others interpret them another way.
So let's get it started.

Getting more cemented rules instead of having to debate every little thing might be better. I'm not saying strict rules, just tangible ones. Some threads like you've talked about seem like people are just going on intuition and it changes for different situations. While being flexible is good, it can lead to some minor chaos.

A) This is a fair point, really we should all be on the same page about moderation, and this is something we should discuss. We had plans in the mod forum to all state our stance on moderation, and then find some way for us all to find some sort of grounds we can all agree on. This fell through, obviously
B) We've tried our best to make things as clear as possible, that's where our image gallery guidelines came from, trying to find a solid set of guidelines. If you have any ideas on how we could expand on this, please tell us.
C) This is another thing we have discussed as well. There are a lot of us that feel something can be uploaded into multiple galleries. This was a fact brought up in the creation of the guidelines, and led to the creation of the relevancy guideline. Generally, we allow it as long as it doesn't fall into one of the defined umbrella galleries. For things like Crossover, I share sympathies with you, but for others I don't (i.e. when I cleaned out the smash gallery, I saw a lot of images that should belong in the Character prediction gallery)
D) I would more argue that if it's hazy, then remove, but I get your sentiments. Generally when I look at NC content, the guideline that sticks with me is 'images are OK as long as it’s something that can be seen on a summer’s day'. This is what I make most of my decisions based on.
E) >Meme site
>Fun
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

If I have to believe your recent suspension, it seems you were just kinda "He's just an image mod, so his warning means nothing to me, so I can just continue where I left off". No wonder you got suspended.

A) Some of the rules can be subjective. The image guidelines have this issue for example. How big an offense is can differ per mod. You can't really change this unless you write down ultra strict guidelines. Do you truly want a 5 page long set of guidelines to introduce KYM: The Police State? Several mods often use the IRC to ask each other for second opinions, which is a good solution and has saved several images already.

B) Elaborate.

C) I know it can. Read R21's post.

D) The size of the offense doesn't take aways that it's an offense. Sometimes it's also best to be rather save than sorry. But it's true that some mods can get offended by images a bit too quickly.

E) >Meme site
>Fun
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Look and read the guidelines

this is porn and allowed under guidelines

this is not porn and still allowed under guidelines but one similar to this was deleted by a mod as NC

so if it as you say RandomMan that "Some of the rules can be subjective" why is it I read it and it makes sense to me and is clear to me.
Rule says: Images, videos, forum posts and comments that fall within this category must be properly labeled as not safe for work (NSFW) – Partial, sufficiently obscured or censored nudity
Where as, Random21 says "images are OK as long as it’s something that can be seen on a summer’s day"

There is a problem with Mods who think this way

There's really a difference between your examples Vaz, I mean, getting past that the point of the censor in the first image is different to the latter, we also allow NSFW images if they are necessary for documentation.
It's also prudent to point out that my guideline is also taken straight from the NSFW guidelines too

Your second image really is fine under the reason you listed yourself and I've PM'd the mod that removed it to update him with this.

Also, as R21 said, “images are OK as long as it’s something that can be seen on a summer’s day” really is something you can quote straight out of the guidelines.

but you see how that makes the difference in how the rule is interpreted? I take the examples that are there plus what the rule says and it's pretty straight forward. No nipples, no genitals, no problem.

also I used those 3 images to show nudity does not = porn
people always use the blanket term porn. To me porn = insertion and genitals not just nudity and/or showing tits. The first two are porn that where censored and allowed not only because it is relevant to entry but they fall under NSFW guidelines (although the subway pic shows body fluids and no one has said anything about that).

I guess there's no better time to bring this up than now. I recently got a warning for posting a supposedly "meta" image to a gallery (is that even a rule?). The image in question was of course removed from the gallery, but then it was moved back to the gallery just three days later, rendering the warning utterly pointless.

Well, posting meta images in a gallery is against the rules. The only way they are allowed is if they are posted on no specific gallery and are tagged with something that describes how it's meta. I've always thought this rule was overall agreed on and written on the rules, but after hearing your case, apparently not all the mods agree.

we've always done it just as long as it pertains to the entry and isn't a Camoawam

mine from a year ago

Yatta's from 4 years ago

What isn't allowed is a wholesale screenshot of an entry or gallery, for example hitting a certain milestone, and posting that to said gallery, or other straight screenshots posted to galleries (the examples in question that made us refine this rule were people posting profiles of ppl they didn't like to Cringeworthy, for example). The Madden Gif or the things Vaz posted are a-ok

I think I know which mod it is that's been way too itchy on the delete and warn triggers and I'll talk about it with other mods to see what we do about it

Actually the mod who moved it back in was Don himself. Technically based on the rules, Don was in the wrong here. As you say, meta content in no longer allowed in the galleries.

You mean Don isn't above the law?

@Vaz

we’ve always done it just as long as it pertains to the entry and isn’t a Camoawam

Key being that it pertains to an entry, yes.

You're thinking of meta entries as memes that reference the site itself. And those are fine as long as they are real examples of the meme.

But when mods talk about banning meta entries, what they mean is entries about the site itself. Those type of entries are not examples of the meme, they are spam.

Do you get the difference? There are submitted examples of memes that reference KYM. And then there are submitted examples of KYM. It's the latter that we do not want

Examples of forbidden meta images:

• Screenshots of the image gallery
• Screenshots of the comments
• Images that are only relevant to a certain user and not the meme
• Images that only contain discussion points for the community itself to discuss in comments

To go into two more examples:

• The injokes like the Goat and I Need Blood reached Camoawam status back in their days. Although the uploads could be relevant to the entries they were uploaded to, they had become spam and thus were removed (not deleted, just out of the gallery).

• We use the entry for KnowYourMeme to place images in that use KYM but aren't necessarily about KYM. The most popular example of this is our NSFW tag image, which is often remixed.

Yeah I was talking about the "you've been memed on" gif.
I would like to hear from more users and more mods on the subject of rules and how you guys feel about em.

I'm not super sure about image rules, there are a lot of mods who I ask if I come across one that seems like it's breaking the rules.

In general, there are rules that are interpreted differently by the different moderators and I don't know what we've really done about it. we've had half assed threads in mod forum and sometimes we don't even get that far.

A) Mods are not on the same page because they are different people with different experience and definitions. Part of the reason I frequently ask about things (even if I'm pretty sure on other people's decisions) is because I want to know what others think and, more importantly why. I think everyone agrees, though, that consistency in this regard is needed.

B) I think everyone wants this. RandomMan has sort of stated the obvious though. We already have people who ignore the rules as is. While people who legitimately care about the site might go through and read all the rules, we also know that many user will ignore them not matter how short specific and clear they are. However, if you have exact suggestions on how to improve it, this would be appreciated.

C) The issue here is not "an image macro can be uploaded in more than one entry." I think just about everyone gets that there can be more than one copy of an image on the site. While I would not oppose a system that would change to this right now we can only go based on what is present.

The real issue is that an image should only be uploaded to equally relevant entries. As I explained here as well as noted in the KYM Image Gallery Guidelines "If an image can go into a more relevant gallery, do not upload it into one of the umbrella galleries (Such as Reaction Faces, Anime, GIF, Childhood Ruined, Childhood Enhanced, Alternate Universe, Tumblr and Crossover). It is okay to upload a single image or video to multiple galleries as long as the two are equally relevant."

A cross between two memes is equally relevant in either gallery for said memes. A cross between two subcultures is equally relevant in either subculture's respective gallery. They would not be equally relevant in an umbrella gallery that almost anything can fit into. Submemes for specific subcultures should go into their own respective galleries, not the main gallery for that subculture. Images such as these also encourage future uploaders to ignore full entries for things and just post to an umbrella gallery because it's trending and its what users in the past have done (follow the leader)

D) This is of course going to be subjective. When I asked about this image in IRC, decisions were split about keeping or removing. It really is not a Hentai Quote but Random21 has sorta a policy of "if the entire page is needed for context, then it's fine". The thing that finally broke the tie was noticing that the image was linking to offsite NC content, which is stated to be against site rules.

E) As much as the mods joke about ruining fun, we don't have it out to actively destroy it. This issue is that KYM is supposed to be a unique site, documenting internet and viral phenomena. It's not 4chan, it's not 9gag, it's not Reddit or any of the other sites that are dedicated to just posting random stuff people find funny. It is supposed to be more of a library or a database trying to catalog different things that have spread.
Which library/data base would you rather visit? One that is organized that people can easily just jump into things in addition to finding the exact thing they are looking for no matter where it is,

or one that people have to dig all over the place for to even know if the thing they are looking for is even present at all?

Don't get me wrong, there are certainly discussions to be had about how things should be organized. However, stuff like putting things into the most relevant galleries, while useful for people trying to find something, is seen as a "fun killer." The same goes for limiting user generated content about injokes.

Finally, as for this bit about entries: "worrying if you will be scolded for something you find funny and/or worthy of an entry." While I have seen some mods, at times, act in ways that I question pertaining to entries, the large majority of this unfriendly behavior comes from non-mods. I'm not saying that that makes it okay for mods to act this way, of course, but this is a general user issue. We even added this part to the rules: "Content posted with the aim to slander other posters or the entry poster (such as OP is a Faggot) is disallowed. Content posted with ulterior motives or for public shaming will be dealt with severely, and will lead to suspensions and eventually bans." to try and deal with this.

I still contend one of of reasons the NSFW rules generate so many issues is due to KYM's definition of NSFW (anything not viewable from work BUT still something you'd see on a summer day) being so different from the rest of the internet's (anything not viewable from work). People see "nsfw" and their mind goes to the standard definition.

A) What does ones experiences have to do with rules that are clear as day to me? Just because I have different experiences and definitions I don't get special rules.
B) some people are trolls who upload stuff like this. Where some people upload things that they think are funny and worthy of uploading and are 1. warned that they put it in the wrong gallery when it isn't 2. have the pic deleted and warned of NC when it's not. You will just drive the userbase away with constant warnings. And yes I do have exact suggestions on how to improve it,
C) Your first link I posted a response your second link I will answer here:
A crossover is still a crossover no matter what your personal opinion is. if I cross two platforms than it is a crossover not one or the other. if I cross a cat and a dog it becomes catdog and goes in catdog entry not cat entry or a dog entry.
On MLP entry the reason things are the way they are is because of things that have happened in the past. Pony entries other than main entry never got any attention no matter how hard anyone tried. Trolls would constantly downvote and main entry had enough bronies to counteract the trolls. hence other pone entries got no attention. Also I saw the downside of bronies who got mad that too many pony entries where being made and my entry ended up deadpooled read the first comments and thats coming from bronies not trolls.
D) Not subjective at all. The image itself is fine under NSFW rule, does the whole image belong in that entry? No. I could have cropped it and made it a better fit for entry. And last if it links and that's against rules, again clear cut rule violation. End result is delete on grounds of link not NC or wrong gallery.
E) Make it mandatory that you have to tag an image or it won't upload. Other sites are implementing this and other sites don't warn their userbase if they want to fix problems. They make it so the problem fixes itself. If you want people to tag and make it easier to find then make it so. Don't come at me saying I have to fix it cus it's my responsibility but we are not making it mandatory so I'm going to warn you about it.

Finally OP is a faggot and always will be. Rules of the internet always apply.

Spoiled because Jesus, that's a lot of text

Double post because Jesus, that a lot of text

@jacob
I don't have the time to fully respond to everything but I will respond to 2 things
A) that's what this thread is all about. Mods that have their own definition of what the rules are. So yes in a sense they are special rules if one mod interprets rules one way another interprets them another way and so on. How do we get mods to understand clearly laid out rules and stop interpreting them the way they feel it should be?

And I'm the OP. I'm the faggot. You can't even get that joke right. A) lighten up this is suposed to be a site with jokes, funny images and memes. B) how are you an image mod and don't know that meme? As is a lot of insults you see every day in riff raff threads. Most memes are insults they originated on 4chan.
GTFO
Deal With It
Seriously
Those are just three memes I can use to insult someone with. How many more do you think there are?

I've been thinking about it for a bit, and since this topic is brainstorming and discussing on a potential change to how the website is handled, I am moving it to Site Related.

Derp Banned wrote

Text to be quoted. And I’m the OP. I’m the faggot. You can’t even get that joke right. A) lighten up this is suposed to be a site with jokes, funny images and memes

>Immediately responds with joke about how we are justified in abusing powers however we see fit
>Makes clarification on the off chance someone takes something said on a serious board seriously
>Me not getting the joke
All rightly then.

Sorry I shoud have been clearer l was ref to the rules: “Content posted with the aim to slander other posters or the entry poster (such as OP is a Faggot) is disallowed. Content posted with ulterior motives or for public shaming will be dealt with severely, and will lead to suspensions and eventually bans.” to try and deal with this.