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Large Image Galleries, Use of Image Galleries, and Enforcement

Last posted Feb 07, 2013 at 06:28PM EST. Added Feb 07, 2013 at 12:43AM EST
7 conversations with 5 participants

This is an odd post. I wasn’t sure how to go about getting the information out, so I’ll go with background and let people ask questions if I’m not clear about my concerns.
 
In our Image Cleaning thread, users link to images that need to be addressed by a moderator with image powers or administrators. A few pages back from the most recent page, Katie Starshine posted many pages of images of duplicate images in the My Little Pony image gallery.

In regards to this, I’d like to begin an organized project in removing these images. I don’t want Katie’s efforts to be neglected, so I’ll contact other moderators who are interested in cleaning up those images so we don’t end up stepping on each others’ toes.
 
Related to image cleaning, there was a recently stated concern about the relevance of images in the Reaction Faces gallery. Like the My Little Pony gallery, the gallery is very large and hard to reasonably browse or find any one image.

I’m absolutely positive that many duplicate images exist there as well. But the question I believe Kim Jong was asking was about the relevance of many of the images in the gallery.

For an article as broad as ‘Reaction Faces,’ there are a couple of options both with considerable issues:

  • The image gallery could stay as it is. The galleries end up functioning as image repositories.
    • The problem is that many images that can be considered relevant are uploaded even though they aren’t particularly necessary to document the meme. Without proper tagging in larger image galleries, any image in a gallery is nearly impossible to find. What good is a gallery full of images if you can’t find the image you want?
  • The galleries are meant to show specific images that are the most commonly used, the most notable, etc. The galleries serve as museums of the “Best of the Best” of sorts
    • That would mean deleting a large amount of images from the galleries. There’s also the matter choosing which images should be uploaded and which ones should be deleted. It would be very difficult to choose which images should be kept and which ones should be removed.

If I got that wrong, Kim Jong, then feel free to explain further.

But as it stands, those two galleries and many more aren’t particularly useful, because no image can be found easily. Unless you somehow mark that image, then there’s no way you’d be able to find it unless it was tagged (something I still work on slowly, but more untagged images are uploaded than I can tag given my limited knowledge of all things on the Internet. I can’t name characters from a Homestuck comic with certain characters, so I’d only be able to tag it with “webcomic” and “Homestuck.” Not very descriptive, and not helpful in narrowing down the search results for that search phrase.)

So what are people’s thoughts on that? I tend to believe that the image galleries shouldn’t be restricted too much, but duplicate images just clutter up galleries and make them very difficult to use.
 
And finally, how does the site prevent duplicate images from being uploaded? I can explain how that is impractical as it is now, but suffice it to say for now that it is. But then again, if we don’t enforce duplicate image uploaders, then most uploaders won’t care what’s being uploaded.


tl;dr: What’s the philosophy on image uploads, and is it complex enough to not have glaring problems with it? Are the current problems glaring problems at all?

Last edited Feb 07, 2013 at 12:45AM EST
Feb 07, 2013 at 12:43AM EST
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I seem to remember Amanda once saying “The more the better”. If I remember correctly, her logic was that there is no real reason to restrict the number of uploads to an entry, because doing so would cripple our ability to demonstrate spread. Google Trends only goes so far. Of course, that applies to relevant images only, but I know you love moderating images, and with all our other modes with image powers, I’m sure you can keep a handle on things.

Regarding the MLP and Reaction Faces entries, which seem to be the problems. Amanda’s statement was in regards to the MLP entry and its crowded gallery. I’m sure it applies to Reaction Faces as well, although they’re somewhat different cases. It can be much more difficult to tell whether an image is relevant in the latter case. If an image is uploaded that has, shall we say, an extremely niche usage, is it really needed in the gallery, compared to some of the more widely-used examples? See, for example:

versus

I would argue yes. Allowing more obscure reaction faces, even if they are basically just screencaps of various characters’ faces, just goes to demonstrate how pervasive the meme is.

So if we allow essentially unlimited uploads, what can we do to make the gallery more accessible? (Which, I agree, is a problem) I, personally, really am not fond of the endless scroll function. I much prefer pages when browsing images. (cough suggestion cough) Tagging certainly helps, though, but the current tagging system is problematic, because there is a lack of standardized tags. People can basically tag it with whatever they want, and often do. Our image mods correct that, but it would be far easier if there were a list of frequently-used or standard tags, or at least some guidelines about how to properly tag an image. The same goes for entries.


Regarding users’ ability to find images again. Besides just bookmarking the image page or downloading the image, the obvious way is to add the image as a favourite. Unfortunately, I don’t think that feature is really well-known or used. It’s not exactly clear how to view a list of your favourited entries and images and stuff.


And finally, duplicate images. I believe the current system works by detecting filenames (correct me if I’m wrong here), and it works in a portion of the cases. But with behemoth galleries like MLP and Reaction Faces, it’s next to impossible to determine if an image you’re uploading is a duplicate if it has a different filename. I can’t really see a way of overcoming this. But then again, is it really that big of a deal? We’re not limited by space in the galleries, and if it’s really so difficult to go through the galleries, then duplicate uploads shouldn’t really be a big deal.

That’s speaking objectively. Most people, myself included, don’t like the idea of duplicate images in a gallery, and think it should be against the rules, or at least discouraged. My point is that it would make more sense to first address the issues with gallery accessibility and tagging, and then set in place better policies regarding duplicates.


Anyways, that’s my take on the issues. And it’s not the end of the world if nothing comes of this. The current system does work, just not as well as it could, or as some of us would like.

Last edited Feb 07, 2013 at 02:10AM EST
Feb 07, 2013 at 02:10AM EST
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Opspe wrote:

And finally, duplicate images. I believe the current system works by detecting filenames (correct me if I’m wrong here), and it works in a portion of the cases. But with behemoth galleries like MLP and Reaction Faces, it’s next to impossible to determine if an image you’re uploading is a duplicate if it has a different filename. I can’t really see a way of overcoming this. But then again, is it really that big of a deal? We’re not limited by space in the galleries, and if it’s really so difficult to go through the galleries, then duplicate uploads shouldn’t really be a big deal.
That’s speaking objectively. Most people, myself included, don’t like the idea of duplicate images in a gallery, and think it should be against the rules, or at least discouraged. My point is that it would make more sense to first address the issues with gallery accessibility and tagging, and then set in place better policies regarding duplicates.

The case here isn’t that those entries are popular places of uploads by many users, it’s that we have a small amount of users who just upload many pictures.

That’s the issue here, image dumpers. And with them it’s at times no longer a case of contributing for the sake of contributing and being a quality user, various of these image dumpers do it for personal goals like building reputation, prestige, obtain rank even (there are several cases of users who contribute for the sole sake of reaching mod). Those aren’t the right reasons to contribute (and in case of the last, certainly won’t get you my vote in a mod batch).

Another issue is that many of the images in the reaction faces entry are directly uploaded from 4chan. 4chan uses different filenames for nearly everything. The same image can be uploaded to the same 4chan thread 10 times and all 10 would be accepted to a gallery. I know from certain users that their source of daily uploads/dumps is 4chan. Those users are a huge risk to duplicates, and with the behemoth entries on here very difficult to spot.

MLP has a similar issue, but that is more related to the fact that Ponibooru shut down and bronies now have Derpibooru for their uploads. All Ponibooru images can be uploaded to Derpibooru (and there are A LOT), and from there can be uploaded again to our gallery. Many users didn’t think of that, and just saw an image that was months old on Ponibooru being uploaded as recent to Derpibooru, and then upload it to our gallery thinking it was a fresh and legit contribution, while most likely a dupe all along. Add to this that the same image can also be uploaded from DeviantArt and Derpibooru (and often happens).

A solution? There isn’t really one. The only thing I can support is to discourage image dumping in older entries, enforce it perhaps. And also perhaps encourag/enforce to only use legit sources for images, not 4chan and the like for standard stuff like reaction images. New entries are an exception, they’re new and the image gallery needs a good basic. But the behemoth entries, users image dumping there only add risk to the issue of duplicates.

Last edited Feb 07, 2013 at 09:17AM EST
Feb 07, 2013 at 09:14AM EST
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Image dumpers is a good point that I didn’t really consider. I’m going to agree with your recommendations at the end there.

Feb 07, 2013 at 11:35AM EST
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Ok, so far, it seems like the whole matter is not much of an issue or one that can’t be reasonably addressed.

  • Kim Jong’s concern about there being too many slightly related images for galleries with a very vague topic isn’t the concern of administration. So it would be detrimental to the site’s purpose.
  • In regards to finding any one image:
    • I bumped the tagging thread once but no one responded. However, a couple of users had agreed to help me come up with a comprehensive, hard list to use in tagging images. I’ll come up with some categories for whomever is interested to consider along with the ones Brad suggested.
    • For those who don’t care about tagging and don’t tag, then I would suggest to them (as I see their uploads) to either tag properly or to not tag at all to prevent poor tagging but prevents the image from being “untagged.”
    • I and other moderators (I have a couple of users in mind who upload a lot of images but also tag reasonably and provide sources when possible to suggest for Image Moderator when that time comes, by the way) can tag the images with a positive score that are untagged and any images we browse and come across as we see them using the list of commonly used tags.
  • As for enforcing image dumpers, I think maybe we’re just going to have to deal with it after the deed has been done. It may require someone to pull a Katie every year or so and make a massive list of duplicate images. As the images become better tagged, this might become a bit easier.

But I think the “Use of Image Galleries” part had been answered sufficiently for me.

The “Large Image Galleries” part can be addressed by tagging and informing people of the system of favoriting and how they can find their favorite images.

I think “Enforcement” is simply asking for a certain level of cooperation in image uploads, since duplicates are not the problem I make them out to be. I think the only instance for any warning would be a user intentionally finding duplicates to upload.

I have a loose grasp of who uploads in the MLP gallery, and I’ll learn who uploads in other galleries now that my first round of job applications and journal reviews are done. I also browsed Ponibooru for a very long time and have seen a lot of fanart and comics from way back when, so I’ll have a decent idea of when a user is dumping older fan content and when they are actually contributing new evidence of spread.
 
I did want users to participate in this thread, although I have enough guidance to begin the tagging and duplicate image removing projects. Thanks, opspe and RandomMan.

Last edited Feb 07, 2013 at 12:20PM EST
Feb 07, 2013 at 12:15PM EST
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opspe wrote:

And finally, duplicate images. I believe the current system works by detecting filenames (correct me if I’m wrong here), and it works in a portion of the cases.

It works by comparing SHA-2 hashes.

Last edited Feb 07, 2013 at 01:15PM EST
Feb 07, 2013 at 01:14PM EST

Verbose, you have addressed everything I mentioned. Thank you

@opspe
for your suggestion for page views on image galleries

maybe give people the OPTION to choose either scroll-view or page-view?

I dunno, I personally like loading up the whole gallery by scrolling all the way to the bottom, then click one picure, and use the arrow keys to flip to the next picture like a slideshow,

where if only a partial amount of images are loaded up….like if you havent scrolled..or if it’s in page view, i think the slideshow mode only shows those few loaded images instead of the whole gallery

Feb 07, 2013 at 06:28PM EST
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Skeletor-sm

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