Forums / Maintenance / Suggest Ideas

Many people flood KYM with what they call memes, when they are obviously forced or in some cases spam.

After reading Ogreenworld's comment on such a meme article, about the repost panda, i saw Ogreen mentioned something about a lurking period.

I think this would be a good idea, say, after creating an account you need to lurk for ~1 month before you can post memes. Might stop spammers and helps n00bs to get to know what a meme is.

Thoughts?

That's uhh… not what I had in mind. I was actually referencing someone else's comment.

(see the comments on this entry)

Anyway. I'm not really for the idea. I don't like new people creating bad entries, and its true that the majority of bad entries are created by new users.

But I think its unfair for new users to not be able to create new entries. There are users like DocOctagonapus that make me believe that newcomers are awesome.

:/

It would, to an extent, stop spammers. But I just don't think its fair in principle.

BUMP

Anyway, this is an interesting discussion.

Well we cant really stop it, but as long as its dead pooled it really should not caused much harm unless its offensive.

I'm a 'noob' to this site, and i can understand Ogreenworlds point, but i also understand CjayS's point as well… i have been on here for 3 days, i have only sent in one entry(it failed before 12 hours)… the thing is there will be three kinds of noobs, 1: the one that spams the staff with would be/wanna be meme's, 2: the ones that send in a lot/few entries and they mostly/all rock, 3: the one that will just sit around the site from a week to a few months before even posting a comment on a pic. so, if there was a 'lurking time' before sending in entries, it should be around a week. that would let the noob get a good feel for the site and a better understanding of the site and memes.

(just thoughts of a noob) _

I don't know what would be the technological implications, but in my mind, the ideal would not be so much a forced lurking period of time, but a requirement that new users contribute some small amount to the content of existing memes and/or discussions before creating new content themselves. It shows you understand a bit about how the site works.

Something that could be easier is CjayS' idea, lurk for 1-2 months before you are allowed to make an entry. That would be easier than Brucker's idea of contributions, which would need individual clearances by mods (at least I think). A lurking period could mean an automated system could clear for entry creation.

Another idea: before creating any entry, a page with Chris M's "What is a Meme" would pop up, and you would have to check a "I have read the qualifications of a meme" box. I know a lot of people don't read those, but maybe some n00b with an invalid entry idea would read it, and decide not to post it, leading to a decrease in annoying fail submissions.

But srsly, we need something. Repost Panda and Backtraced are two recent examples of this. 1-person only "memes" and already-submitted content are starting to become a problem on here.

a month or two? thats a bit much. maybe two weeks… what you could make is a membership that starts off only letting noobs post comments and lurk, then after a week or so their membership changes to normal.

You know I am tempted to make a meme based on me eating a salad.

No wait lets do a meme based on the idea "how to cook a poptart"

1.Go to your favorite super market or grocer. Ask an employee to direct you to the aisle containing Pop-Tarts.
2.Choose your favorite. One with a little frosting, a lot of icing,or one plain. There are many flavors of Pop-Tarts.
3.Open the pop tart box and remove a pop tart from one of the inner bags. Remember, A bag comes with 2 pop-tarts. Place it in your toaster.
4.Toast on a low heat setting.Wait till it pops up.
5.Remove the pop tart carefully, and place on a plate.
6.Allow it to cool for 35 seconds.
7. Eat your cooled Pop Tart.

i think that would work. i'm sure it would get many lulz

we should make 'Americas got talent' a meme as well…

My point with the above was that it should not matter as long as it is not confirmed.

yeah, i was getting that. lol

OK guise, back to serious business.

@Kowlzer: I don't think 2 weeks is long enough, quite honestly. If you look at some of us new forum posters/entry starters who make good entries, we've been lurking for a while. I'd like to use Ogreenworld as an example. Her profile says 7 months old, but her articles, which I would post as a standard of quality, are all less then 2 months old. I really think that you need a longer time to observe articles before you can write any. I'd put a 1 month minimum on it, and that's a bare minimum for me.

tl;dr

One more thing that would be nice would be a section apart from featured of prime examples of quality articles, as in the ABSOLUTE cream of the crop. n00bs could reference this so instead of "this is a meme because it made me LOL" we get a good article.
Of, course this is just an idea.

I think we should ban every one who joins, its the only way to be sure.

Why not just let them write the crappy articles, and than dead pool them??

Not enough; ban everyone.

Take down the site, maybe that would stop the invasion as well.

i too believe in a more detailed writing of what a meme should be, to be put on this site. in fact what i have read on this site the rules and Frequently Asked Questions, there is a very large area that could be worked in as into what is and isn't a KYM meme. In studding/being a fan of anthropology, ethnology, and sociology, and also psychology, i read through those(rules and Frequently Asked Questions) and could find things all over the web that would fit in what is said there but would not make it on the site. having a few of this sites very best meme's would serve well for the site. so i would have to go along with what Sweatie had said.

(noob on this site, not the web)

Before people get up in arms about what I said at the end, I know that featured is super-viral memes, as well as well-written ones. The problem is, many of the ones on the last couple pages are badly written by today's standards, and not all of the said viral ones are well-written either. What I think would be nice is a selection of very well written ones, that the noobs could use as a reference for an ideal article.

like i said, i think that part of your idea was a great idea. as in Examples for noobs to look over and study, before they make the staff over worked. i kind of feel like i put a bad one out there last night, cause it didn't even go to deadpool. but i was sure it was a good one, but i most have misunderstood the borders in which a really good meme should be in.

@Twilitlord

Yea k man, lik I is gonna right total crap anyways.

O.O (sorry for misspelled words, was in hurry to type)

Sweatie:

@Kowzler: You know, one of the hard things about this site, which I think is what you are getting at, is that the definition of "meme" is a hard one to nail down, and it seems to have taken on a specialized meaning within the KYM database in particular. For instance, as it happens, all of the "bad" submissions by newbies really are memes in the broadest sense of the term. A meme is really any idea that can spread, and when some guy says, "Here's a picture of a panda that I think is memetic," it actually is a meme, but will probably not spread beyond the handful who saw that entry before it was erased. Therefore, it's not notable enough.

Notability is a part of the KYM definition that isn't part of the more general definition, but I think it's appropriate. I used to be a member of a small discussion board in which the moderator once posted about "liberal media brias", and from that point on, "brias" became the accepted spalling of the word "bias" on that board. That was a meme, but with a spread of something like 30 people. If we included memes like that, we'd have millions, so we have to limit it to memes with a certain level of spread. I don't think that was explicitly included in Chris' criteria for what makes a meme, but it's sort of implied in the way the site is run.

tl;dr: Not all memes are big, but KYM is only for the big ones.

2 arguments I'm gonna put out there since I seem to be the only one who does not support a lurkmoar system:

-I can name many people who have been here for a long time, and submit entries that I do not believe are up to standard. IMO.

-What if some internet user (who has a great amount of knowledge and useful input) comes from another site, discovers KYM, signs up, is forced to lurk for a while or make a certain amount of contributions, and eventually loses interest? (I know many people want to initially say, "well, let that person leave!" but that is still a great loss)

I also appreciate Twilitlord using me as an example, but it sort of misrepresents me. I signed up 7 months ago to say "+1 confirm" to an entry (yea… surprised?). After that, I did not lurk any moar. Then I came back in the last couple months and started contributing.

I'm actually still in the process of lurking.

Anyway. My 2 cents aren't worth anything anyway :P

Discuss.

EDIT: @Brucker's post above me-
You are absolutely right. Most things here are memes by definition, but I believe KYM confirms based on notability.

However, I'd like to add a clarification to the word "notable."

One video with a million views is a meme. It was passed around. And it was passed around a lot. But that doesn't mean it's necessarily notable.

Notability does not mean a lot of views. Let's take some of the older memes as examples. I don't believe they actually produced a lot of derivatives, but were memetic in how they spread.

They were special. Those videos touched internet culture because they were unprecedented in spread and impact.

I believe the best entries in the database are the ones that change the internet community as a whole.

That's why Chris posted What are some basic criteria for defining a meme?

Those are things to be on the look out for when you look at notable memes. But not the definition of memes.

Again, this is only my opinion but then I got in one little fight and my mom got scared and she said your moving in with your auntie and uncle in Bel-Air.

@Ogreenworld:

I think that there certainly will be instances of someone new coming along who has something useful to contribute, but in such instances, there are other ways to do it. I wouldn't support a lurkmoar system that doesn't allow a newb to do anything at all, only to create a new meme. If someone wanted to make a meme but was still in their waiting period, they could come on the forum suggest the meme, and have an admin or other more experienced user create it and add them as an editor. Make sense?

real meme's none of that meme lite crap. :P

@Brucker
yeah, i get that KYM wants the big meme's now, after reading more and more of the forum threads and watching what all of you older members say about 'maybe new memes'. so thats why i liked Twilitlord's idea of putting up some of the best meme's KYN has for noobs to get a better idea.

@Ogreenworld

2 cents adds up, and is worth more spent then held in a pocket.

@Brucker: Not all of these memes are huge. I'd like to bring up a few examples:
Noelisme, which is mostly restricted to a single forum, in a manner similar to 4chan.
Vernon Koekemoer is almost entirely restricted to South Africa.
Many memes are Japanese in nature, and almost entirely remain there, like Shuzo Matsuoka, Miyoco and Beako.
Makmende is contained only within Kenya.

What I'm saying is, many of these are regional, but the important thing is they had viral spread.
If you actually read the "repost panda", the OP made it himself and was basically asking how to make it into a meme.
The "brias" you talk about wasn't viral, one main criteria is that it spread from its point of origin.
"Noelisme" became mainstream through the french media, and many "American" memes have to spread to many major sites (4chan, reddit, etc) to be considered.
We need this to be established so noobs don't make dumb articles.
tl;dr

@Brucker

yeah, i can see sense in that as well.

@Twilitlord: Noelisme may have been fairly limited, but it clearly caught at least 4chan's attention. And I don't think being limited to Japan is much of a limitation.

Still, your point about viral spread is a good one. Some of the memes that grew in that small online community did spread from there, but none of them far and wide enough that they'd ever show up here, I imagine.

Wait, let me go back to my previous point again. Once again, there may be complications for this technically, but what about not allowing any meme to be created unless it was discussed in the forums first? Or am I nuking the site from orbit?

Blow it out your ass, I like things the way they are, and the sad fact is trolls are taking advantage of you guys, and you can see past it.

Should I say moar?

Yea, I agree with Sweatie (Minus the "blowing things out your ass" o_o).

Bad entries are annoying, yes, but they are not the worst things that could happen.

Deadpool it. And then no harm done.

Sweatie and Ogreen: We know there will always be trolls. However, we're talking about the n00bs who actually think their "lolololol repost panda" or such that only they use is a meme, and make an article that really shouldn't be there.

No! Bad entries are the cancer that is killing KYM! I think we should lock down all new entries…right after I make my next one…

<--- agrees with sweatie and Ogreenworld.

@Brucker

@Ogreenworld

Hey thanks! :D

Actually, I had been lurking around KYM a few days before I decided to make an account, and my first entry was probably a mistake to make. But I learned from that mistake and tried to keep my entires less about what I could get confirmed, and more about what I could contribute to the site itself.

Point being, I notice a lot of new accounts made just to put in an single entry that sooner or later ends up being deadpooled. But if you make a lurking/waiting period, you're going to turn away newcomers interest in the site. People learn from their mistakes and better themselves because of it. Yes, that means deadpooling numerous non-memes and forced memes. But at the same time, new users will better understand what kind of content we're looking for, and in the end, the people who really want to contribute to and imrove this site will stick around, while those only wanting confirmed entries will lose interest and fade away.

tl;dr

Long story short: We shouldn't have a lurking period. It will only deter users from joining and contributing to the site.

Another interesting thing against it.

I mass make accounts, wait for lurking limit to be over with, and mass make fake memes.

Okay, so maybe a lurk period isn't the best idea, but I'm going to copypasta a couple things I said above, for your consideration of alternates (Once again, not against trolls, but against noobs who don't know what they're doing:

Before creating any entry, a page with Chris M’s “What is a Meme” would pop up, and you would have to check a “I have read the qualifications of a meme” box. I know a lot of people don’t read those, but maybe some n00b with an invalid entry idea would read it, and decide not to post it, leading to a decrease in annoying fail submissions.

One more thing that would be nice would be a section apart from featured of prime examples of quality articles, as in the ABSOLUTE cream of the crop. n00bs could reference this so instead of “this is a meme because it made me LOL” we get a good article.
Before people get up in arms about that, I know that featured is super-viral memes, as well as well-written ones. The problem is, many of the ones on the last couple pages are badly written by today’s standards, and not all of the said viral ones are well-written either. What I think would be nice is a selection of very well written ones, that the noobs could use as a reference for an ideal article.

lets just leave it alone and go get some waffles?

I know, this is really starting to ramble, but I genuinely want other peoples' opinions about those ideas.

… and waffles?

I generally want waffles…

… >.< me too

I ate some waffles, man they where freakin great.

I knew that Sweatie Killer was a 711channer troll all along, trying to bring this site down.

Well, first of all, appologies @Ogreenworld, didn't mean to misquote you, no hard feelings right?
and after reading this, i think that maybe a lurking period was a bad idea.
oh, and can i have waffles too?

We need a no waffles for n00bs policy.