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Where did the FIM pictures go?

Last posted Jun 13, 2011 at 11:19PM EDT. Added Jun 04, 2011 at 07:51PM EDT
83 posts from 33 users

In the period of about ten minutes all of the trending images switched form being almost totally Pony related, to the MLP images being totally absent. Have the mods been blocking the MLP images, or has there been a rapid (and totally unlikely) shift in viewership? If the mods are responsible, could we know if, when, and under what criteria the decision will be reversed?

Jun 04, 2011 at 07:51PM EDT
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The owners probably did it for teh lulz. they wanna see what happens to the forums and the FiM page after they stop trending.

Jun 04, 2011 at 07:55PM EDT
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The more important question is: Why in the hell does anyone pay attention to trending images?

Jun 04, 2011 at 08:14PM EDT
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@Taryn Because they are a useful indicator of the popularity of a specific meme as well as the propensity of that meme for generating content (in this case, popular images), as well as being a useful way to judge the sort of images which become popular on this site, which itself would be useful for determining the website’s general taste and the degree to which its users are exhibiting hive-mind-like tendencies.

@Silver shadow You sir, are a genius.

Last edited Jun 04, 2011 at 08:20PM EDT
Jun 04, 2011 at 08:19PM EDT
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More than likely they (mods) exempt the pony article to have its images appear on the trending list. Honestly, I think the pony article’s images is taking up too much “spotlight” from other memes, especially potential ones.

Jun 04, 2011 at 08:19PM EDT
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CyberSora wrote:

More than likely they (mods) exempt the pony article to have its images appear on the trending list. Honestly, I think the pony article’s images is taking up too much “spotlight” from other memes, especially potential ones.

Exactly.

Jun 04, 2011 at 08:30PM EDT
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I agree with, Sora. While it is nice to see MLP pictures trending they tend to drown out other pictures from other memes most of the time. Doing this hinders some memes from having time in the spotlight and becoming well known and I can how it might also irritate other members. At the same time though MLP is still a significant meme on the site and not recognizing any popular pics from it can be a problem.

Maybe a compromise can be made somehow where it might take more comments for MLP pictures to end up in the trending photos, something like a handicap if that is possible.

Jun 04, 2011 at 08:32PM EDT
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The handicap sounds like a good idea. It is certainly better than a blanket ban.

Jun 04, 2011 at 08:36PM EDT
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maybe it should only be 1 MLP pic int the trending at a time, the most popular MLP pic. Then the rest can be for other memes… Or maybe it’s just a thing the mods did to get rid of those creepy sexy pony pics that were up. Those had been up too long, btw.

Jun 04, 2011 at 08:46PM EDT

CyberSora wrote:

More than likely they (mods) exempt the pony article to have its images appear on the trending list. Honestly, I think the pony article’s images is taking up too much “spotlight” from other memes, especially potential ones.

Agreed. This isn’t Ponibooru.

Jun 04, 2011 at 08:50PM EDT

@Taryn That seems seriously unlikely. There is no way that one meme would be able to dominate for so long if that were the case. Even if FIM had a huge lead in images per day, you would see the images change more often day-to-day, and there would be several images up with few comments and little traffic. Neither of these things happened.

Jun 04, 2011 at 08:57PM EDT
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What if you could simply sort images and videos by most recent, most favorited, most commented, most viewed, and such for each meme? That would be good for the entire site.

Jun 04, 2011 at 09:07PM EDT
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Two things:

One, 3 of the trending pony images were.. not quite NSFW but certainly the type of image you’d not expect to see on a front page of a website about memes. Those three were also getting a share of rather nasty comments because of their content (sexual in nature). It may have been a temporary removal to avoid this for the short term (but that’s not to say that this couldn’t result from any other meme).

But if it is because the MLPFIM photos were dominating that section, my suggest to KYM is to basically limit one photo per meme in that area. If this is happening with MLP now, there’s no question that it could happen with any other meme in the future. yes: likely the single MLP image will be at the top of that list indefinitely, but at least other images from other memes can share the spotlight.

Jun 04, 2011 at 09:21PM EDT
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I would like to see a only MLP trending photos box, but that is a bit much to ask for. The box could just be placed on the MLP FiM page. If that could not work, then maybe the days trending cap, or just leave it like it is now.

Jun 04, 2011 at 09:30PM EDT
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CyberSora wrote:

More than likely they (mods) exempt the pony article to have its images appear on the trending list. Honestly, I think the pony article’s images is taking up too much “spotlight” from other memes, especially potential ones.

^This. It’s the freaking Trending images, does it REALLY matter THAT MUCH?

Jun 04, 2011 at 10:04PM EDT
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My recommendation is to use a point system based on diminishing returns. The first 5 or so comments earn X points each, and each comment after earns X/Y points, where Y is the total number of comments over 5 (5, of course, being an arbitrary choice, it could be any value). The point total will then be divided by the total number of days that the image has been on the site. This system will still allow extremely popular images to remain in place for an extended period of time, while also privileging new and rapidly popular images over older ones -- thereby increasing turnover. For FIM to dominate as it once did, it would have to produce a drastically larger number of popular images than it has been. The problem will therefore be solved in both the short and long terms.

TLDR: Math solves everything.

Jun 04, 2011 at 10:04PM EDT
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If they wanted to remove the MLPFiM trends that badly to bring other memes out there, than why is the #1 image someone crying over a dead american! Thats just terrible! >:(
More importantly, how did they do it?! The NSFW is understandable though.

Last edited Jun 04, 2011 at 10:20PM EDT
Jun 04, 2011 at 10:17PM EDT
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I can see why they deleted all the MLP:FIM picture from the trending bar for the obvious and already stated reasons but the trending bar is exactly what it sounds like! TRENDING BAR!!!

MLP:FIM is one of the most popular ’’memes’’ in this website and should be treated as such and should be allowed to be on the trending picture because it simply is trending!

(Please correct my English flaws since i am abit rusty in English at the moment)

Jun 05, 2011 at 07:25AM EDT
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Everyone knows mlp is the second most popular meme on the site (over a million views/thousands of images) so why do we need a daily reminder of that?

Jun 05, 2011 at 07:59AM EDT
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butterin yobread wrote:

Everyone knows mlp is the second most popular meme on the site (over a million views/thousands of images) so why do we need a daily reminder of that?

I feel that it’s not about reminding people of what is the biggest meme. It’s just that people are commenting and watching pony pictures and therefor pony images are trending.
Maybe in the near future MLP:FIM craze will calm down and then other memes will come up on the trending bar.

During one time Forever alone meme was all over the trending bar but i couldn’t see anyone complaining about that? Think about that for a moment.

My suggestion is to put up something like a ‘’does this have potential?’’ for memes that should be in the spotlight. (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=614033)

Jun 05, 2011 at 12:56PM EDT
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Platus wrote:

In the period of about ten minutes all of the trending images switched form being almost totally Pony related, to the MLP images being totally absent. Have the mods been blocking the MLP images, or has there been a rapid (and totally unlikely) shift in viewership? If the mods are responsible, could we know if, when, and under what criteria the decision will be reversed?

@Platus,

Yes, MLP image uploads are currently filtered from showing up on Trending Photos. As for the more permanent solution, we’ve been discussing similar options along the line of suggestions posted here (ex: handicap, max # of photos per meme, point system).

Using a dynamic point-based system would be most fair and a big WIN, though I’m not sure how soon we can implement it. Setting a cap on # of images per meme could be a short-term remedy. Thanks for the suggestion, more to come.

Jun 05, 2011 at 04:23PM EDT
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Thanks for finally making an official statement Brad.

People are claiming that filtering ponies out of the trending is “fair” as it allows other memes to get a taste of the spotlight. But doesn’t “fair” really denote a level playing field?
Regardless of my brony status, and as someone who is still fascinated by memes in general, I was still much more interested in the trending pics when they were full of the images that genuinely had the most comments, which just happened to be mostly ponies. Does this not undermine the observational, research oriented approach to understanding memes which KYM claims to practice?

Jun 05, 2011 at 04:34PM EDT
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“But doesn’t “fair” really denote a level playing field?”

Yes. There will be no such thing as editorial censorship strictly based on taste. We’ll make improvements to how trending topics works very soon.

In the meantime, enjoy some non-Ponies for couple of days? not gonna lie, i lol’d at the sad keanu image..

Jun 05, 2011 at 04:59PM EDT
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I think 1 image per meme would be the best long-term solution. Why?
1) We always get images from 9 different memes
2) No meme can take over the entire thing thus none have to be filtered out

Point based system might work for a while, but then some people would figure out how to get a picture the most of said points in the shortest time possible and we would have the same situation again. Points could be eventually used to decide which photo from each meme would get there.

I think that would be the fairest solution.

Jun 05, 2011 at 05:02PM EDT
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I’d like to expand on the 1-image-per-meme idea, and suggest that we display the top 3 images from the top 3 memes, or add about 2 rows of images and display the top 3 images from the top 5 memes. This would allow other memes to be represented and it would provide a much better cross-section of what’s trending in each meme, as well as what’s trending overall.

Jun 05, 2011 at 05:51PM EDT
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Well aparently some of the hardcore fans have been able to find a loophole that’s causing pictures from other memes that deal with MLP to trend.

Jun 05, 2011 at 06:08PM EDT
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OK, my two cents?
I like the opportunity to have other memes in the trending bar. I love ponies and all (well duh), but it’s a nice breath of fresh air to have a bunch of different memes in the trending bar.
Don’t think 1 image per meme would work though. That sounds like a pretty bad idea. That gives no concept of popularity at all, and I’m not just talking about Ponies. I remember how about 5 of the 9 images during the Friday-days were just of that meme, and that really is the way it shoudl be.
It’s nice to have an official statement though, thanks Brad.
Do not agree with the complaints on the Pony thread at all. Don’t mind having a good Pony crossover image trending, like the Keanu one (that’s hilarious) but commenting on them just so they get in the trending bar is just pointless.
Yes yes, i know i know, TLDR.

Jun 05, 2011 at 06:25PM EDT
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Here’s a mock-up screenshot of what I suggested a couple posts ago.

The images I used aren’t statistically accurate, but you get the picture. It shows the top 5 memes and the top 3 images for each meme.

Jun 05, 2011 at 10:04PM EDT
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Platus wrote:

My recommendation is to use a point system based on diminishing returns. The first 5 or so comments earn X points each, and each comment after earns X/Y points, where Y is the total number of comments over 5 (5, of course, being an arbitrary choice, it could be any value). The point total will then be divided by the total number of days that the image has been on the site. This system will still allow extremely popular images to remain in place for an extended period of time, while also privileging new and rapidly popular images over older ones -- thereby increasing turnover. For FIM to dominate as it once did, it would have to produce a drastically larger number of popular images than it has been. The problem will therefore be solved in both the short and long terms.

TLDR: Math solves everything.

Just quoting this guy, to keep this idea alive. This is the best idea I’ve seen yet.

Jun 05, 2011 at 10:12PM EDT
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Platus wrote:

My recommendation is to use a point system based on diminishing returns. The first 5 or so comments earn X points each, and each comment after earns X/Y points, where Y is the total number of comments over 5 (5, of course, being an arbitrary choice, it could be any value). The point total will then be divided by the total number of days that the image has been on the site. This system will still allow extremely popular images to remain in place for an extended period of time, while also privileging new and rapidly popular images over older ones -- thereby increasing turnover. For FIM to dominate as it once did, it would have to produce a drastically larger number of popular images than it has been. The problem will therefore be solved in both the short and long terms.

TLDR: Math solves everything.

Edit: “where Y is the total number of comments over 0”

moar srsly now: “The first 5 or so comments earn X points each, and each comment after earns X/Y points, where Y is the total number of views of the meme related to the picture.”
-This would allow new trending memes to get the spotlight too…I think.

Jun 05, 2011 at 11:42PM EDT
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@Ginger -- Y being the comments over five, instead of zero, creates a period where the number of comments does not cause diminishing returns. So 5 comments would give you (X*5) points, while 6 comments would give you (X*6)/1, and 7 would give you (X*7)/2. The point is to have each comment beyond a certain limit provide fewer points. This, combined with the point total being divided by the image’s age in days, will privilege new and rapidly popular images over old ones. My goal was to avoid the scenario we had last time, where those three pictures of the mane cast in skimpy outfits dominated the trending bar. With an increase in turnover, a meme would have to produce several highly popular memes per day in order to monopolize the trending bar -- which is very hard.

The problem with Y being comments over 0 is that it removes the handicap that Y being over 5 gives to newer images. A new image will have X points per comment, and will not be divided by age (total days being 1, after all). This will give new images a boost, letting them overtake older images which would otherwise get by on inertia. It also compensates for the boost in traffic an image gets by being on the trending bar.

As for your idea about changing the value of Y based on the meme’s popularity, it seems like a reasonable idea. Whether it works or not depends on your goal. If you want to use the spotlight bar to promote less popular memes, then it’s a good idea. However, if you want to use it to spotlight specific images which have become popular, then it isn’t the right move -- since the most popular images will usually be from the more popular memes. If you wish to do the latter, then a simple handicap in favour of newer images is all that you need.

Jun 06, 2011 at 12:03AM EDT
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@Platus putting X/0 creates division by- OH SHIT!!!

and as for the intent in my second part: maybe it would be good to put two trending images sections. one based on divided by number of views and one by comments.

Last edited Jun 06, 2011 at 12:52AM EDT
Jun 06, 2011 at 12:50AM EDT
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FIM is so popular it needs a handicap. I lol’ed

EDIT: Platus, Would it not make sense for the Diminishing Returns to be more like, well, I’ll use your example:

(X*6)/1 Where 5 is the ‘DR point’ as I call it, DRP for short. Well according to (X*6)/1 That one extra comment past the DRP will be worth the same amount or more, of point(s) within the DRP. Hardly fair. (X*6)/2 seems more fair. If fair is what we’re after here.

Last edited Jun 06, 2011 at 01:16AM EDT
Jun 06, 2011 at 01:06AM EDT
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I’ll get the proper formula out tomorrow and try to see if I can come up with something if someone hasn’t already because it doesn’t seem right to me for some reason, but it’s 1 am and I’m peacing.

Jun 06, 2011 at 01:36AM EDT
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@Ginger and Matt -- Ah, I see. I’ll have to rework the numbers.

Jun 06, 2011 at 06:40AM EDT
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Ok, my idea (updated):
1.) Make Trending Pictures have more slots (12 or 15 instead of 9)
2.) Make limit of 3-5 photos per meme
3.) DON’T make any system based on points per comments, or you’l see how fast some people can spam them.

Number of pictures per meme must be limited, or we will have the same problem again, no matter what system we use. And points per comments means, that some people will start to spam comments under some pictures just to make them trending. And we wouldn’t want that. Also, the entire idea of that equation is a bit underthought. Let me explain that:
Unless you count the number of comments each individual user makes, you could as well not use any equation at all. If it gives the number of points each next comment adds to the score, then we get (i’m not even trying to use that equation, but if I did, the result would be the same. You can check for yourself) 8 points for the first and second comment, 4 for third, 2 for fourth etc. This only means, that instead of 1 point per comment
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7…
we get other-number-of-points per comment
8, 16, 20, 22, 23…
Now, look at this as it were stairs. You’re standing on the step one. On the first staircase, you get exactly one point higher with each step. On th esecond one, each step is lower than the other. But, let’s say, that you’re on the second staircase with someone else. You’re on the step one, and the other person is on the step two. And the only way you can get higher than him is by getting on the step three. Same with comments: no matter the equation, as long as you’re counting the comments as one number, pictures with the most of them will always get the most points, thus the entire equation is pointless.

Why is my system good?
1. No meme can take over the entire thing
2. If TP gets expanded, then even with 3 or 5 pictures per meme there is still plenty of space left for the others
3. With up to 3-5 pictures per meme, the most trending photos can get a fair part of the Trending Pictures while allowing others to get there too.

I can’t find any bad sides of such system, so unless someone proves me wrong, this is the perfect solution.

The only thing I didn’t included is the way we chose the pictures. As I said, points per comments won’t work too well- sooner or later some people will get together and find a way to overcome even the best anti-spamming strategy (and th eentire equation idea won’t work at all). I think views are a pretty good way of seing how trending the photo is. If it’s possible to get each user’s number of views, then I think I have the solution:
IF it’s possible to get the number of times each person viewed each photo, then you could use that equation-thingy that Platus came up with to calculate the points. This is what I mean:

You get the views of each user. The more times someone views a photo, the less each view is worth (calculated using equation-thingy). This means, that for each person who views a photo, it gets some points, but if someone keeps viewing the photo over and over again, it won’t get as much points as for a new user viewing it for the first time. Points should also decrease over time (by number of points*0,01 every day or something like that), so the photos that had a lot of views in their first days but then weren’t viewed at all will get down pretty quickly, allowing the other photos to take their place.

Again, unless someone proves me wrong, this is the perfect solution.

Last edited Jun 06, 2011 at 07:59AM EDT
Jun 06, 2011 at 07:58AM EDT
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@takanuva
im pretty sure a simple limit to number of pics a meme can get on trending a day would work easier, like say a fixed number for all memes, like 3 or something.

Jun 06, 2011 at 08:03AM EDT
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@tehpiemonstar:
You know, that’s pretty much what I mean. Trending pictures should be expanded, so they can contain more memes while allowing the most trending pictures to take the part they deserve, while keeping that “part” small enough to allow other memes to get there too.

My system for chosing the pictures might seem complicated, but it would work. People couldn’t just spam or keep refreshing the page to boost a picture to the Trending Pictures, because each next view would be worth less than the pervious ones. The number of points would depend more on number of people who vieved the picture and less on number of times each of them did so. So yeah, perfect plan as far as I can tell.

Last edited Jun 06, 2011 at 08:14AM EDT
Jun 06, 2011 at 08:12AM EDT
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yeah, but you were talking about implementing a point-thingy, my idea is just ditch the points and make it a fixed borderline number for all memes.
also sorry if i misread something or whatever, my english reading skills aren’t really that good. :P

Jun 06, 2011 at 08:15AM EDT
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I said, that number of pictures each meme can have there should be limited to 3 (or 5). Points would be used to decide which photos are trending.

Jun 06, 2011 at 08:18AM EDT
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Quick summary of my idea (a.k.a.: TL:DR):
1. Make TP bigger (12 or 15 slots instead of 9)
2. Make a limit of 3-5 photos per meme
3. Use my system for deciding which photos get to the TP (my system gives the photo more points for views from different people and less for repeated views (6 people viewing a photo once give it more points than one person viewing it 6 times))

Jun 06, 2011 at 08:59AM EDT
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I think we should be resistant to adding to many formulas to the calculations for trending pics.
The servers are going to have to run these every update for anything anywhere near the running for the most popular pictures, which could cause updates to take longer and be slower. (I’m have no idea what the current metrics for trending pics are, but they seem relatively simple view/post count.) And limiting each meme to a maximum number of images makes good sense, and would be less computationally intensive than having a complex formula that was run on every picture to determine if it was trendable or not.

Certainly having all trending images representing a single meme is not appropriate, especially when the meme is generating enough clicks and comments to get pictures the trending images section showing another picture of the rending images section into the trending image section (this is too much even for xzibit), so a per meme cap of around 3 would allow more diversity in the trending images, without burdening servers.

Also if we could have a separate per meme trending images section that could be placed on the sidebar of memes that have large numbers of images. So that the people going to a page like MLP could see what images were trending for that specific meme, even if they weren’t trending for KYM as a whole.

Jun 06, 2011 at 12:01PM EDT

I think TP for each meme is a good idea. I also think that the formula should be simple. Yet, simple formula doesn’t always give good results. And since any other formula won’t work unless it’s connected to individual user’s views (I explained that already), we can either have my formula (which should get the best results), some other formula connected to views per individual user or have none formula at all and just add the views (and save us some computing). Either way, we get something- fairness or faster updates.
And, before I forget to say that for the umptieth time, there MUST be a limit of 3 (4, 5?) pics per meme, or we will have the same situation again soon.

Jun 06, 2011 at 01:09PM EDT
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Wait, was something other than the issue of pony image spam in the trending bar a problem? I mean is there something we know is definitively wrong with the formula that is currently used other than no cap on how many images from a single meme can trend? I’ve never noticed any image getting spammed it’s way into trending by a single person ever before, so maybe all that needs to happen is the image limit and maybe an expansion. I mean, it’d be great to use the best possible formula and all, but if it’s already functional, why can’t we just add the limit and be done?

Jun 06, 2011 at 01:20PM EDT
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Skeletor-sm

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