Forums / Discussion / General

@Brownmane & Lasers
Thanks for the replies!
Maybe it wasn't clear from what I wrote, but I actually already finished the story a little over a month ago now. (EQD link: TINY WINGS)
I just felt like getting a few more opinions on the concept since this place is better able to handle an actual discussion than EQD's comment system.
Just trying to spark some interesting discussion off of the CMC pics above and the fact that I've only ever seen adult Scootaloo drawn with big wings.

Joe Amythyst wrote:

Does it bother anyone else when people call female fans of the show bronies? They’re pegasisters, officially. Bronies are the male term, in all due respect.

I was just wondering if this bugged anyone else.

I think female bronies should be allowed to call themselves whatever they want. I can understand the arguments from both sides. On one hand, 'brony' is derived from the words 'bro' and 'pony', and some girls don't like to be referred to with a word typically associated with masculinity. Those are the people who would prefer to be called pegasisters. On the other hand, some female members of our fandom are annoyed by the double standard set up by the brony community. We simultaneously say "Fuck society's gender stereotypes, I can enjoy a show intended for girls if I want!" and "No, you're a girl, you don't get to be part of our club". For that reason, some female bronies would prefer to treat 'brony' as a gender neutral term, and they would describe themselves as such. There is no official definition of either term, so people can choose to identify as either, or both. I have no preference personally, so I'd refer to a female brony using whichever word they prefer.

RandomMan wrote:

>Music
>Not listening to Progressive Trance.
>ISHYGDDT

^This. Only you spelled 'Drum and Bass' wrong.

@Muffinator

I'll probably just be repeating what everybody else was saying here last night, but I think it's worth saying anyway. Don't feel bad if a topic is ignored or if you get no karma for a long post. It might seem as if people are skimming over your posts and just looking at the pretty pictures, but personally, I do the complete opposite. If somebody posts one or two sentences and an image, I'll just quickly look over it once and move on. If somebody takes the time to write something out and contribute to a discussion, I usually read it in full. That applies to pretty much all of your posts.

This thread used to have a lot more text on it, especially around the end of thread 3 and for most of thread 4. Sadly, a few frequent tl;dr posters have moved on since then, or have started contributing less. Back then, everyone was posting more, and a lot more was being discussed. If you look to the profiles of people like opspe or BSoD, you'll see a badge for the 'Late Night Debate Club', and back when that was running you could go to sleep one night and wake up to find people had posted two full pages of tl;dr discussions. I really miss how the thread worked back then, as do a few other regulars, so it's fair to say that well-thought-out posts are appreciated around here. Please, keep doing what you're doing.

Brownmane the Knight:

As for everything else, pretty much what Verbs and BSoD said.

Personally, I find both terms to be reprehensible. Part of the reason it took me so long to finally accept that I like ponies was honestly because the idea of saying "I'm a brony" made me want to vommit in my mouth a little bit. Such a graceless portmanteau, even after I did accept I liked ponies, for the longest time I refused to label myself a brony just because I disliked the term so much.

Pegasister is worse however. Not only does it somehow manage to sound even more cringingly retarded than brony, but it serves to denote a useless distinction, that the person in question happens to be female. How is gender relevant here? It's like coming up with a special new word to denote basketball players who happen to be circumcised, it's irrelevant information and therefore does not deserve a special distinction. The only reason a girl has to call herslef a pegasister is in some petty bid to protect her femininity, which I find to just be silly.

I would prefer if we just had a nice gender neutral term, would have allowed us to avoid all this sillyness in the first place, but whatever, brony is the word everyone uses so I'll use it too.

@Fifths

All joking aside, I never thought it was really all that big a deal. Want to call yourself a brony? Fantastic. Sticking with just plain MLP fan? Sounds good. Pegasister? Hey, whatever floats your boat. Admittedly, the term sounded a little silly to me at first, but I got used to it, just as I got used to the fact that I watch a show about ponies.

Something worth noting is that non-fans are becoming more and more familiar with the term "brony" and what it implies. With the older fandom becoming inextricably tied to a term that sounds decidedly masculine, I can sort of see why the pegasister movement arose. They wanted to point out that there are women as well as men in this peculiar fanbase of non-children. That distinction may be as unnecessary as you say, but for me, I don't see how it's hurting anything.

By the way, looks like this is your first post in Pony General. So, uh, hi there!

@Millennial Dan

Hey, they say first impressions are the most important, so I figured best go for venemous with just a hint of neurosis, and what better way to do that than hate on what's in a name?

Most people don't see much importance in being such a stickler about language, but I think it's an important to keep an eye on such things. Language influences the way we think, and our modern way of communicating is lacking enough for parsimony as it is without having to weigh it down with useless terms.

@Fifths

Hi, I saw your posts in that 'Love and Tolerance' thread, and you really need to post moar. You made some brilliant points in there.

Personally, I find both terms to be reprehensible. Part of the reason it took me so long to finally accept that I like ponies was honestly because the idea of saying “I’m a brony” made me want to vommit in my mouth a little bit. Such a graceless portmanteau, even after I did accept I liked ponies, for the longest time I refused to label myself a brony just because I disliked the term so much.

I know of a few people who post here who don't identify as 'bronies', but instead just as 'fans of FiM'. I think the reason is partly because of how silly it sounds (also because they wished to distance themselves from the rest of the fandom, which seems like a decent reason to me. We can get a bit weird at times). It's unfortunate that we had to let 4chan name us, as I'm sure we could have come up with something better otherwise. However, I'd still identify as a brony, as the name has stuck, and I seem to fit the definition pretty well.

Pegasister is worse however. Not only does it somehow manage to sound even more cringingly retarded than brony, but it serves to denote a useless distinction, that the person in question happens to be female. How is gender relevant here? It’s like coming up with a special new word to denote basketball players who happen to be circumcised, it’s irrelevant information and therefore does not deserve a special distinction. The only reason a girl has to call herslef a pegasister is in some petty bid to protect her femininity, which I find to just be silly.

This made me realise something: you pointed out that pegasisters created the term only so that they could protect their femininity, and that lead me to realise that we've been doing the exact same thing with the word 'brony' (only with masculinity instead). It does seem kinda stupid that in a fandom that values the rebellion against gender stereotypes so much we still feel the need to point out just how manly we are within our name.

Anyway, I don't think it's petty to want to protect your femininity. It's unfair to expect female bronies to identify themselves with a masculine noun purely because the fandom is mostly male. I wouldn't be happy if everyone suddenly started calling me 'Miss [insert IRL name here]', so I can understand why they wish to resist the term.

Also, I don't really like how you compared 'being female' to 'being circumsised'. Being circumsised has very little effect on your life and personality, but your gender plays a huge role. Usually it would be irrelevant information when describing your affiliation with a particular fandom (e.g. furries have no separate terms), but in our case the default name carries further implications which female members may wish to distance themselves from.

Since a lot of people here don't read other threads, I was wondering something:

What are your thoughts on the phrase 'Love and Tolerance'?

It was discussed in depth in another thread, but most posters here didn't contribute to that discussion (myself included). If people seem interested in this topic I'll post my own views, but for now I think this post has gone on long enough.

The distinction isn't precisely necessary, no, but I think it comes down to what term the individual person likes to use.
Brony is certainly a gender-biased word, but along the lines of how 'mankind' refers to men and women.
I don't think anyone really takes offense to being called a 'brony' instead of 'pegasister.'
We're just a very punny group of fans (The show certainly contributes to that!), so any excuse to throw another pony pun into general use will likely be adopted by some segment of the fanbase.

@Fifths

Personally, I find both terms to be reprehensible.

I figured best go for venemous with just a hint of neurosis

Dat vocabulary. Too bad you spelt "venomous" wrong.

I'm pretty much in agreement with what everyone above says. I don't really mind it now, but I can't help but think it's a bit corny. And one shouldn't feel the need to distinguish themselves via gender unless they feel it's necessary.

Since a lot of people here don’t read other threads, I was wondering something:

What are you thoughts on the phrase ‘Love and Tolerance’?

It was discussed in depth in another thread, but most posters here didn’t contribute to that discussion (myself included). If people seem interested in this topic I’ll post my own views, but for now I think this post has gone on long enough.

I read that thread, but I didn't post in it myself. I think that it was really made as a sort of joke, or a method to annoy trolls or those that disapprove of our tastes (I don't like using the term "haters"). However, after the brony population grew, it started to actually be taken seriously, so it's grown to a sort of expectation for bronies.

I think it's a good mindset to be accepting of others and all that, but the fact that everywhere people say "Bronies don't love and tolerate anymore. This is truly a tragedy to the fandom" annoys me. I would like to argue that bronies never really were that loving and tolerating in the first place, but I don't actually have a good amount of data to back that up.

@Brony/Pegasister:

In my opinion, brony is a term used to identify all fans outside of the show's target audience. That includes women. Sure, it could be a better term, but I don't really see the need to use pegasister. If a female brony wanted to be referred to as that, I'd go with it, because it's not a big deal. Oddly enough, I've had no female bronies ask that, indicating they give few or no shits, just like male bronies.

As another note, I call everybody 'dawg', 'bro', 'holmes', 'holmeslice', 'brometheus', 'broseidon', etc. IRL, and most of the women I know don't really care once they get used to it. And EVERYBODY has to get used to it.

Calling a female a masculine term that's lost the masculinity through use isn't new to me, so I never saw the problem with calling them bronies. I assume they didn't either, as one of the fandom's goals it breaking gender stereotypes. Brony originates from the fact that the original fans were bros from 4chan (bro kind of being an insult there [from what I understand], while -fag is a compliment). It was kind of a joke there, and caught on because it rolled off the tongue well and all that. It's similar to ponies, gets the point across without explanation, and could only be considered an insult on the site of origin (unlike Avatards).

TL;DR: If a chick wants me to call them a pegasister, I'll abide. I call people 'bro' IRL regardless of gender (because I am an enormous douche), so I didn't see the need for two terms.

@Love and Tolerance:

Ho, boy, you opened up a can of whoopass reasonable response.

Love and tolerance means a lot to me. I know it's a joke motto originating from the most wretched hive of scum and villainy on the internet, but I took it to heart regardless. The show itself changed my life, leading me to be generally nicer, and performing more random acts of kindness. In another sense, I became more reasonable on the internet, and was able to more quickly find my place on new sites.

The show helped get the feel of love and tolerance into me with the lessons and all, so that helped me try to be a better person. Beyond that, the fandom sparked it on even more. The general atmosphere and kindness of the fandom led me to be a better person along with the show. The charity, kindness, tolerance, etc. the fandom showed was heart-warming, and restored faith in humanity that I had lost for several reasons.

One of those reasons being past online experiences.

By past online experiences I mean the goddamn WoW community. People going out of their way to ruin your day, make you lose time, generally feel bad, etc. I dropped out of WoW before I became a brony and had a bad attitude towards the internet, sticking to the confines of my Rift guild. Then BAM! out of nowhere, fucking ponies and the motto. Suddenly, love and tolerance filled my heart, and I began posting on the Rift forums, and my internet-usage slowly changed to make me become what I am on the web today: an enormous douche a generally kinda occasionally reasonable person with an above-average amount of friendliness to other people.

So, 'Love and Tolerance' means a lot to me.

@Algernon

I think you're wrong as far as concerns brony being coined in order to protect our masculinity. While I wasn't there at the terms conception (Had I been, I would most certainly have tried to smother it in its infancy) I'm pretty sure it was intended to be used ironically, as in "Heck yes, I am a bro who watches girls cartoons, I am so friggin MANLY (lol)"

And yeah, I might have reacted a bit strongly when I called girls petty for not wanting to have to have a masculine title. While it is reasonable and I do sympathize to some extent with wanting a gender appropriate name, Pegasister is just such a terrible alternative to brony. It's not like waiter/waitress where you can tell that they're just different versions of the same word, it sounds like a different word altogether. Even though I can sympathize with the girls here, I would prefer if they just bit the bullet and took on the brony epithet with the rest of us.

@DeadParrot222

Puns are such a bizarre trend in humor. At first people thought they were funny because their creation involved some sort of wit. Eventually we started to perceive all puns as corny and they fell out of favor. Now they're coming back, but people don't laugh at them because they're witty, but because they're corny.

@Hallucinogenic Muffins

Sometimes I open up a dictionary and just rub myself with it :P

Well, you certainly won't get any argument from me on the point of language deterioration. As you and George Orwell have said, words are important; they're among our primary tools in forming complex thoughts, and they are certainly our foremost means of communication. That's even more true now that so many of us interact via electronic media rather than in person, and have only words at our disposal. Sadly, the quality of language seems to decline rather than improve with every tweet, text, and blurb on the web. Even so, I'm not convinced that the term "pegasister" is the right proverbial hill to die on in the world of linguistics, as such.

Puns, of course, are an interesting topic all on their own. I've heard it said that inventing puns is a good mental exercise. Anyway, like Algernon said, your thoughts are provocative, so good show!

@Love and Tolerance

Like Explosive Lasers, I really appreciate the underlying goal that this concept seems to advocate. Whether the brony fanbase as a whole has adhered to it more now or before isn't really an issue to me. When I first started looking into the brony phenomenon, I was intrigued by the idea. I was amazed that there might just be a group of individuals on the internet that on some conscious or subconscious level had agreed to avoid arguing with trolls, treat fans and non fans with respect, and generally spread good will everywhere they go. Some may argue that it's never been as good as all of that, but for some of us it has. For some of us, it's been a huge breath of fresh air, and I have to say it feels good. Regardless of how the community acts as a whole, I like the ideal, and I can honestly say I've learned a lot from it.

By the way, we were talking about music earlier, so I thought I'd mention this.

It's out, I've heard it, it's amazing.

@Brony Gender terminology

I don't quite understand how it can annoy anyone if girls call themselves Bronies. It's not like the word "Brony" or "Pegasister" was ever fully defined by anyone so there's no real right or wrong way to use it. Urban dictionary does not count as an official definition.

I see no reason why girls can't call themselves Bronies. In fact I see no reason why a guy can't call himself a Pegasister! I really don't care either way what people call themselves, I leave that entirely unto their own choice.

So therefore, I going to agree that coming up with gender distinctions in this fandom is silly in the first place when one of the reasons it exists is to defy gender distinctions. That's a pretty good point and I'm surprised I didn't think of that earlier.

As for the word "Brony" itself. I understand its origins from 4chan and its negative connotations but in my view the word "Brony" belongs to us now, not 4chan. And whatever meaning it had on/towards 4chan no longer exists.

It's like how the gay community stole the word "gay" and now it means what they want it to mean. We've taken the word "Brony" and now it means what the Brony community wants it to mean. At the moment, just by looking at the most popular opinion; people want "Brony" to simply describe an MLP fan and nothing more. I'll go with that

@Love and Tolerance

For those who missed it, here is the separate thread on the subject

I think that discussion nicely addressed why Bronies don't always act so loving and tolerating in the first few posts. But it's interesting to read why Bronies do act loving and tolerating here so thank you Lasers. You've added a point of view that was not previously seen in the other thread.

After reading what Lasers said, I guess I'll play the devils advocate when I say this:
My own take on "Love and Tolerance" is quite simple: I see it as a nice guideline to go by and also a funny tagline to wave around in the face of trolls but I don't see it as anything more than that.

I certainly don't view it as a serious rule. I don't expect anyone to be able to adhere to such a standard because loving and tolerating on an unconditional basis is a superhuman feat. It's against human nature to not hate and in-tolerate, try as you might, you can't do it.

That's not to say that I don't love and tolerate. I'm quite resilient, and never fast to judge or protest. Pretty much extreme ignorance is the only thing I won't tolerate. I just won't expect the same from anyone else

But perhaps other questions can be asked on that subject. Say for instance: How did Love and Tolerance go from being a regular fandom in-joke to a motto?

@Music discussion

Gotta high five Randomman for progressive Trance. But I still think that topic belongs in another thread.

We started off discussing brony music, but now we are discussing music in general. Remember, we have threads for that already by the dozens

@Algernon

Hey you…yes you…join the KYM DNB club

@Dan:

Yeah, the Balloon Party thing is cool. A massive collaboration of a bunch of brony musicians.

I hear that there were going to be nearly three times as many songs, and the guy that composed them all together cut most of them out, for some reason. There were originally going to be like 100 or 120 songs, and now there's around 45, I think.

My knowledge on this isn't flawless, but sounds kinda fucked up to me.

@Fifths
Puns will always be around in one form or another.
Personally, I think a good pun can be both witty and corny simultaneously.
A good 'groaner' can't be beat!

Oh, yeah, and I've loaned our resident dictionaries a balloon so that they don't have to fall victim to your crazy fetishes!
Fly, girls!

(Sorry, I just had to do it.)

Oh Sweetie Belle… have you been going to Fluttershy's special patch again?

@Love & Tolerance
I've always been completely pacifistic, and I always try to see the best in even the most vile of people. When I come across an unsavory individual, a stern talking to will do the trick 95% of the time. That extra 5% are better just avoided.

I've been loving and tolerating before it was cool.

@Deadparrot

Puns haven't gone anywhere out of fashion. Have you seen the SPACE COW thread?

Kim said it was udder nonsense and got 21 karma…that's insane.

@Ric
*gasp
"W-Who told you about that patch?!"

@Windigo
Same here.
I've always tried to be calm and reasonable when dealing with people.
Live and let live when it comes to harmless opinion, rational debate in other cases, and solid indifference when it comes to trolls.
'Love & Tolerance' is just a convenient expression of my own rules of common decency.
I shall join you in Hipster-land.

Well, since others responded to my question, I guess it's only fair that I answer it myself. tl;dr incoming. (By the way, thanks to everyone who replied)

What are your thoughts on the phrase ‘Love and Tolerance’?

I really like what the motto represents… mostly (more on that later), but I can't help but be bothered by the ways in which it's abused by the fandom.

People often use it as an excuse to get away with whatever the fuck they want, e.g. "Hey, I should be allowed to draw gory ApplebloomXBigMac R34 if I want, and since you guys are bronies, you should love and tolerate me for it!". Just… no. We should be allowed to disagree with each other in the fandom, and I'm tired of seeing people use this phrase in an attempt to escape criticism.

It's also used a lot when people are whining about the state of the fandom. Take this for example:

People expect us to be something we're not and never will be, and then complain when we can't meet their impossible standards. It's not even like we all agreed to 'love and tolerate' when we joined, so why should we be expected to do it 100% of the time? It's okay for us to mess up from time to time, and we're not hypocrites for doing so.

I think the worst aspect of the phrase is the cult mentality behind it. People seriously treat it like a commandment from God himself. This fandom should just be a place for fans of FiM to interact and share content. It shouldn't go any deeper than that. However, many people treat our fandom like some sort of religion, and we're expected to buy into this creed in order to become 'true bronies' (whatever the hell that means). It's a little annoying when we're expected to act a certain way simply for being part of a particular group. I'd much prefer it if we embraced the diversity within the fandom instead of trying to force everybody into the same belief system.

That said, it is a nice idea when you ignore the idiots who go around preaching about it. I don't agree with complete love and tolerance though, like some bronies do. It's not even a concept promoted within FiM, since when assholes are being assholes in the show, they're either blasted with rainbows or driven out of town (Flim and Flam, Gilda, Trixie). If somebody started trolling this thread and started directing personal attacks at some of the posters here, I really hope that you wouldn't all just sit back and tolerate their actions. Sometimes you need to stand up for yourself.

The idea of 'love and tolerance in moderation' is one I can completely get behind though. I wouldn't say the fandom has changed me for the better thanks to that phrase, since it's something I'd been trying to do for years before I joined here. It has however improved the personalities of others for the better, and that can only be a good thing. It did help make the fandom seem more appealing back when I originally joined, since the idea of total acceptance by a group of like-minded people over the internet is pretty attractive. So overall, I don't really know what to think of it. It's a brilliant idea as long as it's used sensibly, but it seems to me like a lot of its proponents have completely missed the point, and it's become a source of harm for the fandom.

@BSoD
Yeah, opspe's already told me that I should join. I've been thinking about improving my profile for a while now, so I'll stick that DnB badge on there once I find the motivation to update it. That might take a while though… I seriously hate writing about myself.

@DeadParrot222

You know, I thought about putting a disclaimer saying "Inb4 perverted Apple Bloom/Sweetie Belle jokes", but I hoped I wouldn't need it. Against my better judgment, I had honestly put that much faith in you people. Thank you DeadParrot, for proving me wrong and contributing to my total loathing of the human race.

@Music

Sometimes I look at the fanmade music and fear that I might be the only brony pretentious enough to like jazz and classical music. I also like blues, classic rock, and folk, particularly Irish folk. Can't stand pretty much any music made over the past decade, damn young people.

@Hipsters

I was a hipster before it was hip to be a hipster.

@Fifths:

One word: Yourenigma Sadly unheard of, usually.

Ponibooru's working fine for me.

hello people.
I have not been on regularly since like…. months. some of you may have forgotten me. i am sorry for my absence. i will make an effort to come here and post often.

HOLY CRAP, GUYS!
PONIBOORU'S BACK!

IT LIVES!

@Fifths
Happy to help!

@Love & Tolerance

Already weighed in intellectually on this one in the other thread, so I thought I might share a more personal story for anyone who's interested (you're probably not, but I like to hear myself talk)

Not many years past, I was a master troll. Now don't think of me like one of those cretins from 4chan or the idiots who try to rustle us on KYM. I didn't just make people rage, I was an intellectual, I would get inside them and tear down everything they held dear. I thought of people like fucking toys, to be picked at, explored, and broken when I was bored with them. I did this because I was miserable, I hated human beings, and I took pleasure in making them miserable like myself.

So one day I started noticing these ponies popping up and people unironically liking them. "Jackpot," I thought, and I began picking on the bronies. Eventually, my curiosity got the best of me, and I watched the first episode. And then the second, and then the third. I started finding it really hard to remember to hate this show the way I should, especially when there were some catchy songs and really great jokes getting whipped out here and there. I started to watch the show more seriously, and for a while I was both brony and brony troll (Not as strange as it sounds, if there was anything I hated most in my troll days, it was things that reminded me of myself) but eventually the brony started to win, and I was starting to change.

I can't really explain how it happened, and mlp certainly wasn't the only factor, but over the past year I find I have begun to fundamentally change on a level much deeper than the merely philosophical. I find that I have become happier, more self-accepting, and just generally more at peace. I find myself able to experience pure uncorrupted joy again, like when I was child, a kind of joy I thought I would never know again. Stranger still, I find that I have genuinely come to like people, to respect them as people and not merely objects to be feared, hated, and manipulated. Because I am happy I find myself driven to protect others who feel happiness as I do. I find myself deeply respecting human beings as autonomous individuals where once I saw them merely as the collective sum of all evil. When I think of trolling like I used to, it makes me sick on a visceral level, I find it difficult to even comprehend taking joy in such things. Like I said, it's difficult for me to explain how these drives became part of me, I suppose it's just hard to be a hate-filled fuck who giggles every saturday at the antics of the ponies.

To sum it up, I think "love and tolerance" as an ethical code is woefully inadequate. The friendship lessons in mlp range from being merely quaint to being self-conradictory and forced. Still, I feel mlp has in a sense helped give me something more important than an ethical code, it has given me a reason to genuinely want to follow one in the first place.

TL;DR: MLP makes me happy, I like being happy, and I like you being happy too!

@Fifths

Glad you were able to turn yourself around.

Joe Amethyst said:

Does it bother anyone else when people call female fans of the show bronies? They’re pegasisters, officially. Bronies are the male term, in all due respect.

No. I hate that term. It's ignorant and racist. How do you think the earth ponies and unicorns feel about that? You didn't even stop to think about that, did you… racist.

Random Man said:

I don't get why this is on wtfponyfanfiction. Trixie IS a badass motherfucker. Clearly this is a mistake.

Algernon said:

What are your thoughts on the phrase ‘Love and Tolerance’?

Eh, sometimes when I feel like being a snide douche (which is all the time), this phrase pops into the back of my head and I decide to not be a doucheshit instead. Different people use the phrase to mean different things; an anti-troll method like in the early days on 4chan, not being doucheshitacular, or donating a shitload of time and money towards helping people. Sure, some people take it too far like you stated in your later post, but stupid people are always going to be stupid. As long as it's inspired someone to be a better person, that's great.

"When it comes right down to it, a phrase is just a series of words: it's the actions of loving and tolerating that are important."
~Confucius not really

Millenial Dan said:

Also, General Mumble has a new EP out. It's awesome.

@favorite non-pony music discussion
I listen to a lot. Every genre has something good to offer. But my absolute favorites are breakcore, math rock, stoner rock, industrial, digital hardcore, and occasionally some noise. As for specifics, I like Venetian Snares, Arab on Radar, The Locust, and pretty much anything from Lapfox Trax or D-Trash Records. Also, Kyuss and any band that any member of Kyuss has taken part in. Also also, video game composers Graeme Norgate and Daniel Baranowski are too awesome not to mention.

As for non-hipster shit that you probably know, Skrillex, Deadmau5, Marilyn Manson, and Queens of the Stone Age (which has two members of Kyuss).

Fifths said:

I was a master troll. Now don’t think of me like one of those cretins from 4chan or the idiots who try to rustle us on KYM. I didn’t just make people rage, I was an intellectual, I would get inside them and tear down everything they held dear.

YEAH, SURE YOU WERE. This is exactly what every 4chan cretin and KYM jimmy rustler thinks. Clearly, you are just an ex-fail troll in denial. LOLOLOL U MAD BRO? U MAD?

@Jackal Lantern

You're dumb.

Oh well, might as well try Pyro's coping mechanism. Since it obviously worked just perfectly for him…

So what've I missed? A bunch of new users as always.
I'll give you the same advice I've given all the others:

And what, the page before this was full of walls of text. It's like I hardly know you guys anymore. :P
But we can't always get what we want.

Now it is time to

Night all!

What? I'm not dumb! That's preposterous! That's boulderdash! I'm raging so hard right now, I feel as though everything dear to me has been ripped away.

You win this round master troll… you win this round…

@Berry

Where does one begin? You missed out on several huge discussions, I can't list the process of events

the page before this was full of walls of text.

And it was beautiful…like a soaring grammatical eagle

[sniff] …so majestic…

@Fifths Love and Tolerance Tale

Wow, just wow. Stories like that are one of the things I like about this fandom.

I wish could say something like that myself. But the most I can say is that MLP helped me at a time of depression (and it has done so for many people I hear) because the show teaches a few things about positiveness. Things are still bad but I don't stress about it now. They should do an episode on procrastination next.

@Fifths

That post made me think of a number of aspects of my own experiences, but I'm too tired or lazy right now to type all of it, so I suppose I'll just say I underwent a similar general process (minus any serious trolling hobbies).

You know, for me it's still season one in particular that has that certain something. Don't get me wrong, S2 was great, but something about that first 26 episodes really got to me. It's difficult to quantify; somewhere in its combination of mellow stories, fun characters, good voice acting, catchy songs, quality animation, brilliant score, and that whimsical sense of friendism is a phenomenon that I find calming and enjoyable. And that seems to have touched quite a few in similar ways, as I've had more fun with my fellow fans of MLP than with any other fanbase.

The dubstep remixes probably help.

@Lantern

I wondered about that. What kind of fanfiction is that supposed to be?

Pinkie appreciates this increasing quantity of Scootaloo!


Yes!

@Balloon Party:
>Mfw I listened to track #10 and track #28

That album is made up of about a gallon of RandomMan's pure, refined swag. It's awesomeness.
If you haven't seen it yet, I suggest you go check it out NOW.

And guess who wasn't there with us to share it.

Verbose…

@Fifths

Glad to see you changed for the better.

Bigger ass comic

@Love & Tolerance (I know I'm hopping in late, so I won't go full tl;dr)

I don't take the phrase too serious. It's the internet, of course not all bronies are all "lovely & tolerance". Bronies are still humans, and humans have their flaws. The derpy fiasco image Algernon pulled up is a perfect example, not ever had this fandom seen so much pointless rage. I don't blame them for disliking the situation, but a lot of bronies were really overreacting.

That bringing me back to the love and tolerance. It's just a phrase. If you want to live by it, go ahead. If you can't, who am I to blame you? You're just human.

But it's great to see how the message of the show has changed people. Fifths here used to be a master troll with very little respect for humans. But he wasn't the first person we had posting here who changed. Some were in great depressions before the show, others never felt welcome anywhere. Yet the show and the fandom gave them a place to feel home and changed them over time.

So even if the "Love & Tolerance" phrase doesn't fit with each brony or situation, it surely left a huge impact. And that is certainly worth something.

Stay awesome bronies.

This is another one of those times where I wish I had some kind of cool, dramatic, or emotional story about how ponies have altered my life in some extreme fashion.
Sadly, I do not.
The best I can say is that ponies (and really the community, more specifically) have given me more confidence in actually 'speaking' up and posting.
Before, I would just lurk around and very, very rarely contribute to any of the sites that I perused.
The suppotiveness and general creativity of this fandom has pushed me to actually want to talk to you people and I can say unequivocally that I would have never had the courage to write and post my fanfic (which has been one of my best experiences so far) were it not for the general air of kindness that flows through all of pony-dom.
So, despite not having an earth-shattering backstory, I'd still like to thank MLP and the bronies for everything!

@Pinkamena
As long as I'm around, there will never be a shortage of Scootaloo!

@DeadParrot222

I find it difficult to imagine a version of you that's not posting his head off.

Pony 34

Alright, new topic: Where the hell are all these cloppers coming from? The brony demographic survey said that something like 1 in 7 bronies is sexually attracted to ponies. Now what strikes me as odd about this number is that it implies to me that the mere act of watching the show has caused some people to become attracted to ponies. The common belief is that your sexuality is just something you're born with, but I find it hard to believe that anymore; you can't tell me that 1 in 7 people in a random population have a natural proclivity towards colorful equines. This has got to be learned behavior, and what could possibly be in this show that is driving people towards this bizarre fetish?

People often lie on surveys. If it said that 1 in 7 were sexually attracted to ponies, it was all lies.

The ponies in the show were initially designed to be colorful, and atractive to look at. Not necesserily sexual, but still nice to look at.

People wouldn't look at ugly characters all the time, so ponies are designed to be attractive.

That and take a bunch of sexually respressed people on the internet and you get a bunch of people who will look at all kinds of pictures.

What reason could people possibly have to lie and say they're cloppers? If anything, that ratio underrepresents the number of pony cloppers given that that is the kind of thing you might expect someone to lie about.

As far as ponies being designed to be pleasant to look at, I definately agree that that is part of that. I doubt there would be such a huge number of rule 34 if they looked like a bunch of ugly troglodytes, but that isn't enough. You can't tell me that just because a cartoon is drawn to be visually pleasant that that automatically will imply some sexual attraction, there has to be something else here.

Someone a long while ago posted an infographic comparing anime and ponies in design style and why people are attracted to them (even if it's not the same species).

@Acetone
>Been here 3 days.
>Never seen a R34 fueled shitstorm.
Oh believe me, we can have very destructive shitstorms over this; however, we're generally okay with talking about R34. I just want to see what comes out of this.

No, discussing rule 34 and/or sexuality won't cause any shitstorms or serious argument.

Never caused a shitstorm, and never will

@Fifths
Internet anonymity helps, but I'm really just a very shy person in real life (That Bronyland quiz put me as a near equal mix of Twilight and Fluttershy.)

@Rule 34
Sexual attraction is such a ludicrously complex psychological process that I think it would be nearly impossible to make any direct conclusions about… well, anything really.
In general, I think that it stems from a genuone love of the show simply taken to a higher level than 'normal' fans.
That said, there are two forms of attraction that are possible and both carry very different implications.

1. Physical Attraction
Relatively easy to understand.
Some people simply like the look of the ponies.
Highly subjective and can be heavily based on a particular artist (person likes R34 only by one artist, regardless of subject)
I wouldn't say it's a learned behavior or fetish so much as a previously unknown preference.
For analogy, if you were to ask some isolated african tribesmen if they were attracted to red-heads, they would probably be very confused as they had never even heard of that kind of person.
If you then took them to meet some women with red hair, I think it's pretty likely that some would find it attractive.
They didn't 'learn' to like red hair, the opportunity to realize that they liked red hair simply never came up before.
If you look at some comments on the really early R34 stuff, you'll see that a lot of people who liked it were just as confused.
Lots of "Why the hell do I find this sexy?!" and such.
In the end, there's no accounting for taste.

2. Psychological Attraction
This is the idea of someone 'falling in love' with the character itself, essentially to the point that they treat them as an actual 'person' rather than a fictional construct.
Note that even 'normal' fans do this (It would be difficult to really like the show without suspending this disbelief).
To an extent, this is testament to how well the show is made.
Writers, actors, and directors all converging to build a personality out of nothing that becomes deep and interesting enough to be found attractive is quite a feat of cooperation.

At the end of the day, most people ('cloppers' and not) feel both of these to some extent.
R34 is just an (almost logical) extension of these attractions.
No doubt that it is 'weird,' (even most people who like it will admit this) but it's typically harmless so I see no reason to make a big deal out of it.
It is a very interesting psychology question, though.

Edit to expand on Fifth's second comment:
The characters were designed to be attractive, yes, but when put in combination with attractive personalities and voices, it builds essentially the same mental image as a real person.
Someone who looks sexy but acts like a total abusive bitch at all times will probably not attract as much love as a sexy body coupled with a nice personality.
It's really a total package kind of thing so it would be very difficult to pull out any particualar element and say 'That's the cause of all this.'

I was wondering about that myself. Alot of bronies don't like being mistaken for furries, so would enough really answer that they liked ponies that way to create a figure of 1 out of 7 just for the lulz? I think it's a bit more of a longshot to assume most of those people were joking given that's it's a touchy subject for some that most people are careful about weighing in on any other time.

All and all I think we can assume that more people find ponies sexy than we thought. Probably not 1/7 exactly, but noticeably more than we thought.

1. Balderdash* #problem?
2. "What? I’m not dumb! That’s preposterous! That’s boulderdash! I’m raging so hard right now, I feel as though everything dear to me has been ripped away."
   >That’s boulderdash!
   >boulderdash
   >boulder X Dash

<img src="https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/234/032/b06.jpg" height="500" / ><img src="http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/139/7/3/rainbow_dash_unimpressed_by_sierraex-d3gp0vr.png" height="500" / >

Basketball, RandomMan. THE THUNDER CAN'T WIN IF I'M NOT WATCHING THEM EVERY MINUTE OF EVERY GAME.

And I don't want to lose that bet I made with opspe…

And I've been aware of what has been one of the greatest strings of tl;dr in the history of Pony General. I've got things to see to (and will likely be busier for the next few months,) so I'll have to catch up and read everything (although, there is a very small chance that I could respond to everything.)

I want in on the sexual attraction to ponies conversation. But I don't want to step on any toes. I'll have to read what has been typed in detail and then get back to you.

@DeadParrot222

You pretty much hit the nail on the head I think, particularly considering the psychological element. Trolls like to call cloppers horse fuckers, but I really think that's an inaccurate description. Horses are just animals, blunt beasts with no ability to think or laugh or reason. The reason we like ponies, including the cloppers who like them just a little bit more, is because the show's creators did such a kickass job of infusing them with humanity. Whenever they are depicted doing horse-like behavior, like snorting or what not, someone always jokes "Oh my God…she's a horse!?" It's supposed to be a joke, but on a very real level we really do think of them as people.

I suppose as far as fetishes go, clopping makes more sense than most. It's basically the same as liking people if people were pastel colored miniature horses.

Edit: Oh, and as far as the Bronyland personality quiz, I remember taking it and getting Rainbow Dash and thinking "what the fuck are you talking about?" I thought that I would get Twilight for sure, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized I had a lot in common with old skittles. I'm competitive, impatient with incompetence, and, how shall we say, quite charmingly abrasive. :P

This was back when I was like the rest of you heretics and had yet to discover that Dash is, in fact, best pony. And if you think I came to that conclusion because of my incredible narcissism, you're wrong, it's a mathematical fact.

kicks down door

DID SOMEBODY SAY RULE 34?!

Let me lay it down for you with this convenient pic:

It's not far-fetched or unnatural to feel some level of attraction to them. For example, I'm not sexually attracted to them more than I am a human, as I said many pages ago, but I wouldn't be opposed to a relationship. Why? Because they're goddamn adorable.

Going off what DeadParrot said, I do feel some psychological connection to several characters because of similarities between me and them, they're personalities, etc. Not enough to make me want to [censor] their [censor], but enough to make me desire a platonic relationship.

This comes back to the users thoughts on the subject, as well. A lot of those people that answered Yes to being ponysexual on the survey could think that a psychological attraction is ponysexual. Others might not. Regardless, few people actually lie on surveys, from what I've seen (and from what other users have said), due to the anonymity. It's safe to say that is more-or-less accurate, not accounting the user's thoughts on what is and is not ponysexual.

Another point I have to make is that not everybody faps, and by that logic not every brony who's ponysexual clops. You can feel an attraction to something without acting on it (usually).

MFW this entire page:

DeadParrot222 said:

Someone who looks sexy but acts like a total abusive bitch at all times will probably not attract as much love as a sexy body coupled with a nice personality.

Unless, y'know, you're into abusive bitches.

But seriously, people find all sorts of things attractive. "Clopping" doesn't necessarily equate to finding horses sexually attractive. These characters have many other likable attributes that could be the source of one's attraction. Twilight Sparkle is an intellectual, Applejack is a hard worker, etc. In addition, even the "abusive bitches" have their attributes. Chrysalis is a strong leader dedicated to helping her subjects, Nightmare Moon's frustration at being unloved hits people right in the feels, and The Great and Powerful Trixie is A GOD DAMN WIZARD. I don't know about you all, but I find intelligent, hard-working women to be very attractive. Especially if they're wizards.

I'm not saying aesthetics don't factor into this. Things like hair style and eye color affect our human attraction. I see no reason to assume they wouldn't affect one's choice in "clop" material either. But at the end of the day, they're colorful cartoon horses. They've been around as long as MLP has been a franchise, but I doubt a lot of bronies were yankin' their crank to G1.