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@Jackal Lantern Putting Luna Below Celestia when we haven't even had a Celestia Episode yet.

…Can Anyone say… Heresy?

Seriously, though, let's see a Celestia Episode first, and then we'll see who best Princess is. Less than a minute of screen-time of footage every few episodes isn't enough to make judgements on Celestia. She's surprisingly more of an Enigma than her shadier Counterpart.

My point?

With Luna, we know what her deal is, or was: Loneliness, and a feeling of under-appreciation for what she does. And she puts on a strong front when deep down she's more vulnerable than she lets on.

From a couple of good episodes about Luna, we could figure all that out.

But Celestia?

Um… At best we can assume she's not entirely comfortable with how much distance her role puts between her and the populace. But really, we have no clue what the actual deal with her is. What drives her, what motivates her beyond simple benevolence. Those are things we haven't been shown.

Without an answer to the question of who exactly Celestia is, how can we really say we know her enough to place her above or bellow Luna?

All we have… Is a mystery… and that's hardly something to base an opinion on.

Where's the favorite pony list?

Ha ha, yeah. Five bucks says y’all forgot about me.

Well, first, in regards to the .MOV series, I do respect Max Gilardi a fair amount as an artist, and I do respect, if not “like,” the surreal drawing style of John Kricfalusi, but I think that the series definitely did go downhill starting with DRESS.MOV. It just seemed as though it didn’t have it anymore, and I’m not much of a fan of completely crude humor like this. However, I watched it because it’s popular and I didn’t want to feel left out (or at least, not any more left out than I do after having left this thread for like two months). I’m not going to say that SWAG.MOV was the worst one of the series, because all of them other than APPLE.MOV sort of bothered me equally. (I liked APPLE.MOV a fair amount, though, because it was the only one that I think wasn’t trying way too hard with the gross-out humor.)

Now Friendship is Witchcraft, on the other hand, I do enjoy…

List of episodes you ask, hmm?

249 button clicks later…

1. Sisterhooves Social
2. Sweet and Elite
3. Suited for Success
4. Secret of My Excess
5. Magic Duel
6. A Dog and Pony Show
7. Lesson Zero
8. Feeling Pinkie Keen
9. Party of One
10. Green Isn’t Your Color
11. Putting Your Hoof Down
12. Keep Calm and Flutter Pn
13. Too Many Pinkie Pies
14. Hurricane Fluttershy
15. Ponyville Confidential
16. A Canterlot Wedding, Parts 1 and 2
17. The Crystal Empire, Parts 1 and 2
18. A Bird in the Hoof
19. MMMystery on the Friendship Express
20. Look Before You Sleep
21. The Return of Harmony, Parts 1 and 2
22. The Best Night Ever
23. Family Appreciation Day
24. Luna Eclipsed
25. The Show Stoppers
26. Over a Barrel
27. The Last Roundup
28. The Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 6000
29. It’s About Time
30. Hearts and Hooves Day
31. A Friend in Deed
32. Apple Family Reunion
33. Games Ponies Play
34. Sleepless in Ponyville
35. The Cutie Mark Chronicles
36. Baby Cakes
37. Hearth’s Warming Eve
38. Owl’s Well That Ends Well
39. Fall Weather Friends
40. Stare Master
41. Swarm of the Century
42. Winter Wrap Up
43. May The Best Pet Win! (Surprised that this one wasn’t lower)
44. The Cutie Pox
45. Dragon Quest
46. Call of the Cutie
47. Griffon the Brush-Off
48. Bridle Gossip
49. Friendship is Magic, Parts 1 and 2
50. Boast Busters
51. Dragonshy
52. Applebuck Season
53. The Ticket Master
54. Magical Mystery Cure
55. One Bad Apple
56. Read It and Weep
57. Spike At Your Service
58. Sonic Rainboom (I just barely liked this one more than…)
59. Wonderbolts Academy (Shit episode.)

Hmm. I would like to say that I still think Celestia is best pony, but Goddamnit, give her some screen time so that there’s actually merit to that claim. For now, I’m going with Rarity for best/favorite pony, because I notice how many Rarity episodes are high on my list, and just because Rarity is awesome. What more reasoning could you possibly want? (However, I am keeping the Celestia avatar for now, because of how cute it is.) Actually, speaking of which, if the “Princess Twilight” deal goes over like I kind of want it to, Celly and Woona should get the screentime that I want them to have.

Found a couple silly videos I thought I'd share:

Mod Edit: Edited the new vid you posted to replace the broken one in this post. New post got deleted afterwards.

@Kris

Welcome back! That episode list… I like it.

@Kewln00b

It was linked at the top of the episode list, or you can just click here.

@ZeroBlue

Her mystery is part of her appeal. Add to that, she's also nearly omniscient, and a bit of a prankster. I could go into it with a bit more detail, but I'm not really up to it right now, and Explosive Lasers could post at any minute.

Go to the favorite episode list calculator and there is a link to the pony list right at the top in green text.

Finally took the favorite pony quiz and well…..I'm surprised.
1 Rainbow Dash
1 Princess Luna
1 Derpy
4 Twilight Sparkle
4 Princess Celestia
4 Scootaloo
4 Lyra
8 Rarity
8 Sweetie Belle
8 Bon Bon
11 Fluttershy
11 Applejack
11 Big Macintosh
14 Pinkie Pie
14 Apple Bloom
16 Discord
16 Granny Smith
18 Queen Chrysalis
19 Octavia
19 Fancy Pants
21 Babs Seed
21 Snowflake / Horsepower
23 Spitfire
23 Flitter
25 Spike
25 Princess Cadence
25 Cheerilee
28 Shining Armor
29 Nightmare Moon
30 Vinyl Scratch
30 King Sombra
32 Zecora
32 Cloud Chaser
34 Soarin'
35 Flim
35 Carrot Top
35 Photo Finish
38 Iron Will
38 Fleur de Lys
40 Flam
40 Trixie
42 Dr. Whooves
43 Pipsqueak
43 Berry Punch
43 Twist
43 Gilda
43 Hoity Toity
48 Rose Luck
48 Lightning Dust
50 Colgate
51 Braeburn
52 Diamond Tiara
52 Silver Spoon
52 Caramel
52 Prince Blueblood

Not surprised with the bottom 5 but I'm more surprised with the rest of the Mane6, they should be with Rainbow Dash, Luna and Derpy….at least Twilight should definitely be in the top 1. Not surprised with where Pinkie stands as she's my least favorite mane 6 gets struck by lightning she's so great she has to be put down a few ranks to give the other ponies a chance to be the best.

@Favorite character list

1 Princess Luna
1 Nightmare Moon
3 Derpy
4 Twilight Sparkle
4 Rainbow Dash
4 Fluttershy
4 Rarity
4 Applejack
4 Pinkie Pie
4 Spike
4 Princess Celestia
4 Princess Cadence
4 Queen Chrysalis
4 Discord
4 Shining Armor
4 Sweetie Belle
4 Apple Bloom
4 Scootaloo
4 Cheerilee
4 Big Macintosh
4 Granny Smith
4 Flim
4 Flam
4 Diamond Tiara
4 Silver Spoon
4 Pipsqueak
4 Iron Will
4 Lyra
4 Bon Bon
4 Rose Luck
4 Colgate
4 Dr. Whooves
4 Octavia
4 Berry Punch
4 Vinyl Scratch
4 Carrot Top
4 Zecora
4 Soarin'
4 Spitfire
4 Braeburn
4 Caramel
4 Babs Seed
4 Trixie
4 Cloud Chaser
4 Flitter
4 Twist
4 Gilda
4 Snowflake / Horsepower
4 Lightning Dust
4 Photo Finish
4 Hoity Toity
4 Fancy Pants
4 Fleur de Lys
4 Prince Blueblood
55 King Sombra

Also:

I'm really glad that "I Like Both" button is there, otherwise I'd still be biting my nails trying to decide.

Oh god
The sorter has shown you mercy, comrade
The moon horse shines on you today
Cuddly moon horse:

Dammit
Want
but sold already

Took the Favorite Pony test:

It didn't go over well for me.

Also, full list of characters for those who are curious:

>MFW favorite pony quiz

<div class="spoiler" title="The "my opinions are better than yours" best pones list">
Swag is Genetic Tier
1 Rarity
2 Sweetie Belle

I wuv you guise Tier
3 Pinkie Pie
4 Applejack
4 Scootaloo
6 Fluttershy
6 Apple Bloom

God Tier
8 Princess Celestia
8 Princess Luna

Friendship IS Magic Tier
10 Derpy
11 Zecora
12 Big Macintosh
13 Twilight Sparkle
14 Lyra
15 Discord

Awesome Tier
16 Octavia
17 Vinyl Scratch
18 Princess Cadence
18 Queen Chrysalis
18 Shining Armor
21 Photo Finish
22 Rainbow Dash
23 Spike

Hey, weren't you that pone in that episode Tier
24 Colgate
24 Dr. Whooves
26 Spitfire
27 Berry Punch

Unicorn Tier
27 Prince Blueblood
29 Fancy Pants
30 Trixie

Pretty cool Tier
31 Nightmare Moon
32 Bon Bon
33 Cheerilee
34 Diamond Tiara
35 Braeburn
36 Babs Seed
36 King Sombra

Pegasi are all orphans Tier
36 Cloud Chaser
36 Flitter

A filly or two tier
36 Twist
36 Hoity Toity
44 Carrot Top
44 Soarin'
46 Silver Spoon

Stallion get shafted in Equestria Tier
46 Flim
46 Caramel
47 Snowflake / Horsepower
48 Flam

Oh god I don't know anymore I'll just press a random button Tier
49 Lightning Dust
49 Fleur de Lys
51 Rose Luck
52 Pipsqueak
52 Granny Smith

Someone gets in your way, make them pay Tier
53 Iron Will
54 Gilda

Hey, Hasbro. Why hire all those VAs when you can just get her:

Always jelly of people who can do good impressions. I try, but it all sounds the same :(

/mlp/:

Round Stable users:

KYM users:

Oh hey, turns out chuggaaconroy is a brony.

Skip ahead to about the four minute mark.

oh……ok.

who is he?

I wonder…

What's the chance that after all the late nights Twilight had, all the worrying she did, and all the Stress she had… That after her coronation… She took a nice long sleep?

Think about it, she's missed out on so many hours of sleep she still needs to make up for a few entire days of missed sleep. And now's pretty much the only time in a while she's had nothing specific to worry about.

(Also, is this the only image we have of Alicorn Twilight Trying to sleep? I had the feeling that the headcanon about her is that she rarely sleeps, but I didn't think it was this bad.)

An extremely popular Let's Player.

@Deadparrot

Does Fifths qualify as the first regular of the KYM brony communities to say he's leaving the fandom and then come back?

Because this is the worst abandonment of a fandom I've seen. Popper's gone. Fifths came back a page later.
 
I have a list of favorite episodes, but I wanted to organize them in fives so that they're a bit easier to consume. I usually just look at the top 3 and bottom 3 and get lost if I look in the middle.

No points for guessing which one was my favorite episode. Points, however, for guessing the focus of 4 of 5 of the top five episodes.

>Points, however, for guessing the focus of 4 of 5 of the top five episodes.

I dunno, could it be…friendship?

Fifths: Worst quitter of a fandom ever.
That's ok though, we like the company.

That sounds like a challenge…

Princess Twilight is THE WORST POSSIBLE THING. The brony fandom is broken beyond repair. Not to mention the show has gotten progressively worse. THE SHOW WAS DOOMED WHEN LAUREN FAUST OUR LORD AND SAVIOR LEFT THE SHOW TO THE CURRENT HOOLIGANS RUNNING THE SHOW. There is no hope and I am therefore leaving bronydom forever!!!!!! Good bye, I will always hold you folks in my heart remember those special times before the ponies went down the drain.

Peace out-
Windigo

God I love ponies.

I changed my mind- didya miss me?

@Verbose and everyone else

Just to qualify here, I'm still really disenfranchised with the show itself. It's really what BSoD said about how we don't have to take the show seriously in order to have fun with it that convinced me to stick around. The only reason I feel I'm still into ponies at all is because of the fandom.

I just couldn't resist being around you guys because of…reasons…

(Yay, Fifths likes us! He's going to stay!)

Challenge Accepted: I fucking hate this new episode and the show is only going to get worse and worse with each passing episode. I might as well abandon ship while the show still remains at a high point for me-I'm back.

Some Oscars, right guys?
I especially liked the part when…
You know what? No, fuck that.
Fuck Argo.
Fuck you, Affleck.
Django or Les Mis should've won, Hollywood just wanted a picture about Hollywood saving the world.
Goodbye, deserving movies.
RIP, Film making, 1906-2013.

Argo fuck yourself.

The first fan-made episode of MLP: FiM?

And I said:

Speaking of awards, I'll never understand how MLP:FiM was snubbed so badly at the Emmys. The only mention it got there was best song or something.

Bringing it back around to pony…

It seems as if there was a small goof at Las Pegasus Unicon.
 
…They didn't have enough money to reimburse guests for their expenses.
 
 
…Meaning that the guests (from brony media to show staff) were promised room, board, and travel expenses and they didn't get them.
 
Those remaining actually did a stand up job in using their resources to start a quick fundraiser to reimburse the guests, and I think the community was able to raise close to $8,000 up to this point.

If you want better details (I couldn't be bothered to investigate any further), then here's a link.

Furthermore, the management of the convention may have actually left when things began to go south. As in "they left with no word knowing how bad things were going to get."
 
 
I could understand a 5 year old running away to avoid a spanking or something. But grown men and women? If you want to talk about man/womanchildren, then I think we've found (and subsequently lost) our brony mascots.

That kinda burns me. I expect a few large events to be poorly planned and for this sort of thing to happen rarely. But to not sit and own up to it when you had the people bringing you the show and the finer points of the community take time out of their schedule to make the event happen is really low. I could totally understand why show staff wouldn't want to chance conventions anymore unless they got paid upfront for expenses or something (or more unfortunately, just not come at all.)
 
I think a comment made was in regards to stopping all of these semi-large Bronycon events and only having a few large ones (i.e., East Coast, West Coast, Midwest, South?) That way, you have 4 solid events that already know how to do it and have shown that their management can handle things without making people in various parts of the country fly or drive so far to have a large brony convention experience. Everything else should be large meetup size or smaller without a lot of formality or financial promises involved.

Shame Pone for the management.

I'm all about forgiveness, so I want to post this mostly in jest. But like I said, I'm a bit disappointed nonetheless. I hope their Las Pegasus Unicon management is able (and properly executes) reparations and deals out apologies to the guests for that huge inconvenience and embarrassment and then to the community for saving them in a pinch.

@Verbose
I was expecting this to be brought up and kind of hoped it wouldn't be you that would do it (not because it's you, but because you're verbose and I didn't want one of your longer posts to go wasted).

Unfortunately, the video and rumor is all we have to go on. I've heard rumors about VAs getting woken up and kicked out of their rooms (not true, most were already home), the hotel throwing fits, and entire panels being cancelled by the hotel. Considering the official people who were at the con are probably really fucking tired right now, and probably aren't going to say anything until at least tomorrow, what I'm hearing now is just rumor by a few con-goers. And then a lot of people who didn't even attend and are working off of other rumors.

It seems like the Unicon staff did ditch, and the media-based fans took over to make up the extra funds with donations.
The VAs/Writers DID get paid. Their agents confirmed this. Purple Tinker opened her mouth again, and one of them basically told her to shut the fuck up.
M.A. Larson is making jokes:

The Riviera isn't currently throwing any fits or anything.
The only person who has confirmed getting in trouble with the hotel is DHN's DerpySquad, but someone was nice enough to loan him the $300.
Turnout WAS lower than expected, and that is what is behind some of the money issues. Unicon staff was expecting more walk-ins than what they got.

That's about all we have confirmed. The VAs and Writers were watching the Oscars tonight, so there was very little official word on anything. I recommend we wait until at least tomorrow night before kicking off any serious discussion on this particular thing. Considering this deals with people in the Real World, this might not be best to go with at the moment.

Pony Ascension is one thing, but talking about rumors about real people (even with our small group) can be quite damaging to a person's reputation.

@CrazyC

Yes, Fluttershy…
Yes, they would…
I just heard about this whole thing (and watched the video from Lee Tockar and Final Draft explaining the situation), and yeah… I think it would be a good idea to hold off until we get more information.
Edit: Looks like EQD took down the link to the video explanation… for some reason…
So here it is here:

I've already seen some rumors going around that are just untrue, like John De Lancie having his panel cancelled (EQD had a full write-up of this 'non-existent event).
Something clearly went screwy with this con's finances to the point that everyone seems to be jumping in to bail them out.
Giving the benefit of the doubt, I'm willing to guess that the organizers simply got too ambitious for their own good.
I did notice from the frequent updates on EQD, that this con seemed to have everyone!
Tons of voice actors, writers, musicians, etc. and still with only a projected attendance of 2000, half of what BronyCon in New Jersey got last summer.
(Note: They apparently only ended up actually getting 1200! Big loss in ticket sales there.)
Overextension seems to be the big culprit here, at least until we find out exactly what the aftermath entailed.
Verbose's post is the first I've heard about the original con staff jumping ship entirely so I really have no idea what's going on there.

I was kind of worried about the tone that Lee Tockar took in part of that video, where he seemed to be almost pleading (diplomatically, of course) with Hasbro to not assume that this is the norm.
I've got EQLA2 coming up in May!
Don't screw this up for me Vegas!

Fair enough, Crazy☾. I should have laid off of the rumor bit, and I'm glad you called me out on it. I did read enough to get more of an idea of what was rumor and what had actually occurred, but I don't think I made that clear enough (or was clear enough myself on the matter to post.)

And perhaps I give our thread too little credit. I know we have lurkers, but I've always assumed they aren't regular lurkers and are just stray Internet users who may happen across this thread when looking up discussions and opinions on the show or the fandom. I guess I assume that they'd be more likely to hit up /mlp/ or Ponychan in search results than KYM Pony General.
 
However, I can't say that I'm not still a little upset with the management there. I was pretty confident that they had bailed out on an entire convention which was their responsibility, and I was pretty confident that pony media and show staff had to put together a quick fundraiser in order to reimburse guests. I think that's still true, even if all of the guests got home.
 
But I'll be less quick to pull the trigger in the future. I don't really think "journalistic rigor" when posting about news stuff here, but perhaps I should keep that in mind in the future. Thanks.
 
 
As for wasting time on a post based in rumor, it's more embarrassing than a waste of my time. I've got loads of time for the time being.

Human Pone with fundraised Las Pegasus money.

For the finale, I was kinda expecting a final boss battle. Who could have it been?

And it didn't even win somehow, it lost to Penguins of Madagascar for fucks sake!

That's right, MLP had 'Find a Pet' and 'Becoming Popular' nominated at the emmy's for best song in a cartoon and it lost To Penguins of Madagascar!

Speaking of the Oscars, when I saw the Samsung ads for Unicorn Apocolypse, I thought how you guys would react to it.

Something funny I've noticed about Daniel Ingram's compositional style is a tendency he has for using this one cheap trick to raise the excitement in some of his songs. What he'll do is that as the end of the song draws near, he'll shift the key up a half step for a big finish. Check it out

The key shifts at 3:34 from F major to F sharp major

The key shifts at 2:58 from D sharp major to E major

The key shifts at 2:28 from G major to G sharp major

Ingram goes a little crazy with that trick here. He shifts from C sharp major to D major at 032, D to D sharp major at 0:47, D sharp to E major at 1:02, and E to F major at 1:16 (Piano pony is such a boss. Look at him finishing the song even after he takes a nut shot from Pinkie and all the other musicians are down.)

What is happening in each of these changes is that Ingram is shifting the key up to the next possible note in the chromatic scale. This changing of key is very interesting to me as a classically trained music theorist because even though key changes are standard fair for classical music as a means to maintain interest and contrast in a piece, Ingram does three things in his key changes that the classicals would have scoffed at.

1: He modulates to a note only a half step away from the home key: When composers in the classical period made key changes, they would, at least early on, restrict their changes to keys that were closely related to the home key. It might seem common sensical that the keys A and A sharp ought to be very closely related, but in fact they are as distantly related as two keys can be. We don't measure relatedness of keys by their proximity to each other, but by the number of notes they share in common, and two adjacent keys have only two.
2:He modulates with little or no preperation: When a composer modulates in key, he'll typically use a small transitional passage to ease into it. Ingram shifts key with little or no preperation whatsoever.
3: He ends on the key he modulated to. Classical theory dictates that a modulation to a foreign key be only temporary and that the piece must return to the home key for its conclusion to give a sense of completion and solidarity. Ingram just ends in the new key.

So yeah, Daniel is definately breaking the rules a bit. He's breaking them in a very effective way however. By shifting to this foreign key after the music has been piddling about in the old key for so long, he helps ensure that the ending sounds new and fresh despite the fact that it's the same melodic and harmonic material just transposed up a bit, and the fact that he's shifting with the little preperation to such a distant key makes the ending sound unstable and exciting.

It's a very effective technique, but I do kind of resent him for using it so much. It's a cheap trick because it allows you to have a big ending without putting much effort into it. That being said, I'd be lying if I said I didn't plan on using it myself.

I think we can blame that on Derpy…

She had no idea what those penguins were capable of.

@Fifths
…
I have no idea what you said, so have some Beethoven pony!

Really, very cool music analysis.
The only thing I feel that I can comment on is your last point, though, because I still have no freaking mental references for 'keys' and the like.
I'm going to guess that Ingram's use of that 'trick' is at least partially a practical thing.
You say it allows for a big finish without a lot of build-up which is sort of like cheating, but remember that he is composing for a 22 minute cartoon show of which he is usually only given 2 or 3 minutes to get his point across.
He doesn't often have the luxury of time to build his songs in a classical way so he makes use of shortcuts.
(The songs you referenced are actually some of his longer ones so maybe that doesn't apply…)
As long as the songs are fun and effective, I won't hold that against him too much.

More info from the crazy con:

I can't listen right now so I don't know what they are saying, but have fun.

Look what was in the package that was just unceremoniously thrown (Literally thrown. I hate my mail driver.) at my door!



The Daleks were not prepared for this.

His tie is scratched up a bit, but I have another one coming in, so I'm not super upset about it. He seems a little bit lower quality than Derpy and Dash, sadly. Still has his cutie mark on one side, but he'll be posed front-facing, so you won't see it. Why were you staring at his rear end anyway? That's very, very rude you know.

Also seen is an analog micrometer. I don't remember what I was measuring, but I should probably put that back into its case.

Obligatory photo:

Fifths wrote:

Something funny I’ve noticed about Daniel Ingram’s compositional style is a tendency he has for using this one cheap trick to raise the excitement in some of his songs. What he’ll do is that as the end of the song draws near, he’ll shift the key up a half step for a big finish. Check it out

Epic key changes are epic, but this "Top 20" doesn't have any pony songs. They've clearly overlooked the best of all the key changes:

The list needs some editing to include some of Daniel Ingram's songs.

Bad, bad, bad… I don't know who was in charge, but man, this is just one more thing in a long series of events recently that are straining everyone's positive attitude to the breaking point.

Madam Rarity, may I ask you a question? Who had the best and the worst Oscars dresses last night?

I think someone needs to send Tara an award for "Greatest grievance fit within 160 characters."

And yeah, I think the harm to that positive attitude is really what is hurting us the most. The thing that was so awesome about the fandom in general was that it was basically a self-perpetuating cycle of happiness. Person X did something nice for person Y who in return did something nice for person X who in return did something nice for person Y, and of course person Z wants in on some of that action now.

We were basically an inverted reflection of /b/

The reason why the fandom got so freaking huge and the reason why the VAs and the writers were so enthused to get in on it was because of all that pleasant mojo. All these unfortunate events are really souring people's attitudes however. The brony doc getting pirated and this failure of a con is getting those involved with the production of mlp pissed off at us. Fighting is Magic getting C&D'd and Twilicorn is getting us pissed off at Hasbro and probably the producers pissed at them as well. And of course, all the lovely controversy and infighting that results from our disagreements on these matters is getting us pissed off at us as well.

Basically, it might soon be time that these bastards get called in.

I'm starting to wonder if this is becoming a hate triangle now.

Actually, a hate quadrangle. Outside people hate us, producers hate us a bit I guess (or something), Hasbro acts as if it were bringing down the fandom, and we're stuck in the middle. And then we hate the haters, we fly at Hasbro, and we get mad from the controversies.

And then Hasbro is controlling the production of the show like a puppeteer, keeping the outside people from the fandom (mostly haters) in check to make sure they're not trying to boycott they're products or something like that, and they're trying to keep all of that controversy in check.

AND THEN, the outside people are hating on Hasbro, the producers, and the fandom.

AND THEN the producers are in a stage of uncertainty or something, and they hate Hasbro and stuff.

/half-satire

REB DoMiNe would love that theory
He's full of hate and he loves it
lots o hate in that
Hate
Hate Everywhere

[/Hate]