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Any suggestions for good, SJW-free content?

I already said the Invader ZIM comics as well as the Rick and Morty comics are free of SJW dreck, what else?

Blacksad is awesome

THAT´S how you tackle social issues

@spider-byte
I'm pretty good comic books fan. Though I will admit I haven't found anything great lately. It has nothing to do with SJW themes at all, though I am worried that if Marvel is willing to allow these things to happen; then what else will they allow down the line?

I know marvel is still churning out good hits and great reads but the question I ask isn't whether marvel sucks (they don't) but at what point does our faith in the industry become misguided? At what point do we put our feet down and let them know we don't enjoy the downhill spiral of writing that occurs on average. 10, 20 years ago we'd never see such hamfisted politics thrown in at a 5 year old's writing level (civil war doesn't count).

We'd also wouldn't see the writer acting as if they're being harassed because they get criticism for their writing. My point is that we've seen all the stupid crap that industry has thrown at us, from selling your soul to the devil because no one can cure bullet wounds, to being told that aliens won't be in civil war by the editors except they are aliens in civil war or perhaps my favourite: allowing a critical member of your group to leave brainwashed with a clear rapist. The thing is, we're never going to give up on the comics (as you've pointed out). We may stop buying comics, but we will always have faith in the industry to check out from time to time what is worth reading. My question is whether this faith is misguided and whether we should be doing something to ensure that there's always something worth reading as opposed to doing nothing to ensures writers and editors aren't being manipulated into making crap. At what point does our un-ending faith in our franchises and our industry turn from consumers into sheep and fools easily parted from their money?

@spider-byte
I'm pretty good comic books fan. Though I will admit I haven't found anything great lately. It has nothing to do with SJW themes at all, though I am worried that if Marvel is willing to allow these things to happen; then what else will they allow down the line?

I know marvel is still churning out good hits and great reads but the question I ask isn't whether marvel sucks (they don't) but at what point does our faith in the industry become misguided? At what point do we put our feet down and let them know we don't enjoy the downhill spiral of writing that occurs on average. 10, 20 years ago we'd never see such hamfisted politics thrown in at a 5 year old's writing level (civil war doesn't count).

We'd also wouldn't see the writer acting as if they're being harassed because they get criticism for their writing. My point is that we've seen all the stupid crap that industry has thrown at us, from selling your soul to the devil because no one can cure bullet wounds, to being told that aliens won't be in civil war by the editors except they are aliens in civil war or perhaps my favourite: allowing a critical member of your group to leave brainwashed with a clear rapist. The thing is, we're never going to give up on the comics (as you've pointed out). We may stop buying comics, but we will always have faith in the industry to check out from time to time what is worth reading. My question is whether this faith is misguided and whether we should be doing something to ensure that there's always something worth reading as opposed to doing nothing to ensures writers and editors aren't being manipulated into making crap. At what point does our un-ending faith in our franchises and our industry turn from consumers into sheep and fools easily parted from their money?

Pardon my hyperbole, I just don't want to be playing Halo 6 or whatever years from now, only to hear Cortana yell at the Chief for "mansplaining".

Sorry about the double post folks. I have no idea how that happened. I can't even delete it either.

Don't forget about Cortana crewing out Master Chief and the rest of the Deck Crew for referring to her as a she. "Assigning binary gender roles is demeaning and sexist, John!"

Here's the thing, as much as I love Marvel, they are a company and companies are scummy. Marvel will push something until they can't gain money from it, you can be certain the trend of going too far in the name of progression will go (providing that it doesn't become the norm, which I just highly doubt it will).

You can put your foot down whenever you like, just don't buy the next issue of Thor or Squirrel Girl (people give Falcon as Captain America shit but it makes sense he took over, Bucky had his shot and I really like this run, even with the rare cringey SJW pages).

The point is Marvel might wait until something has 10 issues of a series under the cancellation threshold for sale, but they will just give up and give the consumer what they want.

And actually Marvel have created such hamfisted politics not just 20 years ago with the 90s X-Men being a blatant allegory for gay people, before that one of X-Men's best and most beloved stories that they essentially made it canon and based X2 around was God Loves, Man Kills. The only 2 differences are that they had competent writing and we personally disagree with them.

It seems like you're creating this false dichotomy of I buy a Marvel comic and get content I like but end up supporting something I don't believe in or I don't buy it and support it, but don't any comics. Companies aren't that stupid, they know what books sell and what don't, you've just gotta be a sensible consumer that buys what you want. If a series turns bad, drop it. You can criticise what you don't like too, but make sure you balance it with praise for what you do like, and advocate other consumers to do the same. Ditch the Gates and all the groups, they only put you at a disadvantage.

For the writers response to criticism, it's really best not to press it. Don't get into all this tribalistic attitude that things like GamerGate perpetuate, it only works in the favour of the writers to get more attention to get more sales to justify their crap comics existing

Hrom wrote:

Any suggestions for good, SJW-free content?

I already said the Invader ZIM comics as well as the Rick and Morty comics are free of SJW dreck, what else?

Although Hrom you certainly do seem to be almost an icon of an overzealous GamerGater kid who says hypocritical shit, i'll be nice and respond.

It is really what you consider SJW, because for some people, all but those few comics posted are "free of SJW dreck", to others even something like Saga is far too left leaning.

@spider-bite
No one's advocating for tribalism or the advancement of political ideas before rational thought.

I don't see the point of disbanding the gamergate in favor of being sensible. How exactly are people and companies supposed to fight organized harassment without banding together? Form another group… oh wait that'll just be gamergate with another name.

"Companies aren’t that stupid, they know what books sell and what don’t, you’ve just gotta be a sensible consumer that buys what you want."

You also need to be the sensible consumer and let the publisher know you're the one buying their works and not the crazy lobby groups saying its important to stick it to the patriarchy. Somehow Marvel believes that pushing this anti-male anti-responsibility messages is somehow profitable. Care to explain how that happened if comic book readers don't have to band together?

"Ditch the Gates and all the groups, they only put you at a disadvantage."

Care to explain? The way many people interpret the current climate is that it would be avoidable if we had banded together earlier.

"It is really what you consider SJW, because for some people, all but those few comics posted are “free of SJW dreck”, to others even something like Saga is far too left leaning."

I don't think you understand what SJW means… SJW means someone who is willing to put personal politics in a work or media that has no bearing in that media. It's essentially propaganda with no thought or effort to represent the issue fairly. X-men of the 90s did a good job showing the dangers of allowing mutants and the reasons why we should. At the end of all things it preached that trust was the important factor and that we can't condemn the good people because of the actions of the bad people. If that were SJW'ized it would be a story about how awesome all the mutants are and how everyone is wrong for not wanting to have their heads cut off by cyclop's laser beams while wolverine chops civilians in half while talking about how the government taxes people too much.

SJW has nothing to do with political leanings or actual politics. Because let's be honest here, being far left-leaning does not make a SJW. Being far-right does not make you an SJW. Being an SJW means inserting and forcing your personal politics onto others through violent or hamfisted manners with no attempt to be reasonable or delicate. Heck SJW's aren't even left leaning considering how much they want government mandated censorship back.

"Although Hrom you certainly do seem to be almost an icon of an overzealous GamerGater kid who says hypocritical shit, i’ll be nice and respond."

Please don't tell me you're one of those people who think its best to respond to a crisis by feeling superior to everyone and doing nothing to solve the problem. Don't make me dig up the XKCD comic. Treat people with respect please, especially since Hrom has done nothing to you to deserve such ad hominem.

Just for future reference, if you click the 'post' button more than once it happens. I once clicked it like 4 times because I thought my internet crashed and I posted 4 times. Just remember to only click it once and you're golden.

Actually, I feel like I need to correct you. An SJW is someone who takes social justice to the point of campaigning for it in everything they do, and if you disagree, they get hostile and threaten to harm your life or career, etc. It's the 'social justice at all costs' attitude.

Again, extremism. It doesn't matter what form it takes, it's never a good thing.

First up less address the Hrom thing. I don't know if you've read his posts, but they include perfectly riveting stuff like how SJWs should die or be silenced (yet complains when about censorship) compared to the stuff he said about people he has never talked to, mine were tame. I don't feel like I need to feel superior to anyone. I'd like to think make more reasonable posts than "Canadians, prepare for your manual castration." and "Only once SJWs are dead as well."

First, SJW doesn't have a proper definition yet, and what one is down to who ever is gonna sling the word about. Personally I've always considered a Social Justice Warrior as someone who advocates something socially regressive in the name of socially progression, or take social progression too far. But really this proves the point, the left leaning thing wasn't saying only the left are SJWs, but to some people that's what they believe. An "SJW" comic for you might not be something I consider one.

I think you misunderstood the message of 90s X-Men, it got really heavy with mutants being more of a homosexual allegory, the legacy virus was an AIDs allegory (legacy virus had the misconception of being mutant only as AIDs was presumed by a lot to be a gay disease, a group ostracized like mutants). Would you say gays are specifically more likely to be dangerous and evil than everyone else?

Mutants are just humans but with amazing abilities, comparative to a misunderstood individuals in real life that have extraordinary skills. While a theme of the X-Men is that they do have destructive potential, it's actually almost always the people with power like money and the ability to manipulate others that are the abusers. The fear of mutants has never been for rational reasons, remember they live in a world where the Avengers are actually way more dangerous but are treated with love, and the idea being that if there wasn't this hatred against outcasts, mutants would be treated the same as any other super human.

One of the main problems with GamerGate is that even though you let companies know you are group, that group has negative connotations and is assumed to be mostly comprised of aggressive, irrational men or bitchy consumers, most people don't know what it actually is for because GamerGate is so loosely organized anyone can say anything about GamerGate and so those oblivious just go with what they hear first. Also those accusations aren't baseless because you have people that make comments like Hrom who are proud GamerGaters and are tolerated in the movement.

A re-branding or a separate movement might not be as silly as you think. It could be more concise, organized and less bastardized by those in and outside the movement.

Yes

@TheGamerGrim

No, you're by no means the only one to have figured out that "more inclusive" is code for "censored to the standards of an unusually prudish soccer mom".

@Spider-Byte

Oh please, /co/ has been hoping for a second comics crash for how long now? And it looks like it's happening.

Comics have never been solely the mouthpiece of some political propaganda, and when they are it can still be good or least entertaining. Read The Probability Broach by L. Neil Smith if you want to see what Ayn Rand-tier soap-boxing without Ayn Rand-tier unreadability looks like.

It's no V for Vendetta but it's still fun to read.

And anyway comics have been propped up by the movie revenues for almost a decade at this point, and the bill for all the retardation that funded is coming due.

They want to do that shit? Then other people don't have to buy their shit. That's a very good method of dealing with this.

And it will open up a bunch of space for those comics that never got their due because of the Big Two's dominance. Maybe there will even be a renaissance of all those non-capeshit genres that were killed-off by the Comics Code.

@A Delicious Cut of Roast Beef

"SJW" has gone mainstream as a term, it won't be long now before it starts showing up in the big papers & magazines & TV news.

Anyone saying "SJW is /pol/speak" has no clue what they're talking about, and while SJWs might try to "reappropriate" the word it's not going to work any better then the last time they tried or when they coined that word for themselves in the first place.

The reason "SJW" is an insult is because SJWs behave so horribly, and treating it as a term of pride can't change that. If the people trying to reappropriate "queer" fucked animals & children, worshiped Satan, stuck people with needles to give them HIV, and overall behaved like characters from a Chick Tract then they wouldn't have gotten anywhere either.

@Spider-Byte

There's a lot of people who walked away from Marvel/DC, and there's a lot more who cut down from 20-30 to even 50 per month to only 1 or 2 they really liked.

That's what happens when a company basically declares war on their customers, and the Big Two have been doing that for almost a decade at this point. One More Day consisted of only one big IP being turned into shit, after another 8 years of that shit spreading everywhere people are walking away.

The Big Two have become entitled to the point that couldn't imagine that happening, just like the games industry couldn't imagine pre-orders, DLC, and crowdfunding getting scarce but it happened anyways.

There's a difference between "this shouldn't exist" and "I will destroy this", one involves forcing others to think in the same way.

Also are you seriously thinking only GamerGate is repelled by this shit? There's a lot more then just GamerGate saying this is crap and should never have been published professionally.

If you seriously think only GamerGate was complaining about Funimation's Prison School dub then you're going to be very surprised.

@MrKillultra

People are walking away from comics, that whole "why does everyone continue buying this dreck?" question was asked for years by gamers, and now it turns out they're not anymore.

Comics is entering a bad time.

@Spider-Byte

The big thing is that even during those "cringey pro-LGBT 90s X-men" they still made this:

Now that's good, regardless of anything else that's great writing.

And that's why those comics shown get such a bad reaction, did "do you think this letter on my head stands for France!" get a bad reaction because because it was "right-wing" or because it was shit?

As for "just don't buy it", people are walking away, if you would spend less time trying to insult a hashtag you would have seen it.

Seriously, how much dumb shit have you endorsed or minimized because you want to show those "tribalist GamerGaters" how wrong we are.

If you find that you can't say something because it would mean "the Gators" are right then you've let GamerGate control your life far more then any of us here have.

Have you noticed how better the reaction you're getting is when you drop that "GamerGate Bad!" attitude and start making actual arguments? Keep doing that.

@Spider-Byte

I'm going to point out that "only once SJWs are dead as well" was (IIRC) said in response to "is GamerGate dead yet".

If you're going to claim that that means Hrom wants SJWs to literally die then also means the person he was responding to wants us to literally die.

I don't find either of those interpretations to be convincing.

Making any "new" hashtag will just get called "GamerGate" by the usual suspects, do you remember how #Right2Game was instantly declared GamerGate despite the fact the only commonality was the shared support of gaming?

Also, any attempt to make a "membership list" will only give SJWs a bunch of targets, remember how many got fired in the early days after SJWs doxed them and called their bosses with lies? How about that razor mouse & syringe Milo got in the mail?

Hell, Leigh Alexander just decided to libel one of her writers for having supported GamerGate.

No leaders = no centralized targets, that's good when you're trying to fight people whose S.O.P. is "target people's job, safety, and family".

@MexPirateRed

Wonderful! Let YouTube continue shooting themselves in the foot, it will force the issue to the point that either they stop being retarded or some big names leave for competing platforms and force YouTube's hands.

You have not really answered my question tho

Which comics can I follow without unintentionally supporting the SJW agenda
Mind you, I have no problems with female, non-white, or differently orientated protagonists – I just do not like SJW drivel and I do not want to support it in any way or form

Just to give an idea of what I em looking for
I really liked Wonder Woman by Bian Azzarello or Action Comics by Grant Morrison
also adore One Punch Man

I em looking for honest-to-god suggestions here

Surprisingly no one has pointed this out yet. But in the last page there was a comic of a woman killing a guy with a stapler over being called a social justice warrior. That comic while recent is not made by marvel. Also she could not call the cops because all the cops are dead or insane. Still though, its not satisfying to see someone who is clearly down and out being executed especially when you have an indie comic book artist do it (self-insert fanfic!?).

Of course this does nothing to change the fact that it seems all comics everywhere are having ideological elements shoved into them.

@Spider-Byte
"A re-branding or a separate movement might not be as silly as you think. It could be more concise, organized and less bastardized by those in and outside the movement."

Why don't you try starting a reform movement. Let me know how that works… because what you describe sounds like something that is literally impossible to do and would just end up getting tarred and feathered by the media anyway. We waste so much time trying to somehow stop all fringe elements when said fringe elements are so subdued (i.e has Hrom done anything ban worthy? has Hrom advocated murder in the last 30 days? check his activity page and find out… the answer seems to be no) so as to not really matter. I don't see the mainstream media giving feminists a hard time for their fringe elements. If anything I see their fringe elements getting praised for being so edgy and revolutionary.

"Mutants are just humans but with amazing abilities, comparative to a misunderstood individuals in real life that have extraordinary skills."

except you just said that mutants are a gay allegory. I guess gay's have super powers?

"I think you misunderstood the message of 90s X-Men, it got really heavy with mutants being more of a homosexual allegory"

I don't think it was about gays because while mutant and deviant is slang for being gay, it tends to be a space whale aesop because the message becomes "you didn't support gays, now we lost all the cool people with laser beams for eyes and the ability to control the weather". X-men is more about prejudice in general than homophobia.

"While a theme of the X-Men is that they do have destructive potential, it’s actually almost always the people with power like money and the ability to manipulate others that are the abusers"

Yeah that's why magneto is a major villain… or that time wasp got eaten by that fat mutant jackass. Or the Neo or Cheyarafim or Neyaphem both groups of mutants that just decided hmmm let's use our powers to make people's lives miserable. When you have power, you will abuse it if you aren't taught better. The point of Xavier's academy is to teach mutants that they can integrate into society and not have to use their powers for their own gain. That's there's a place for them in society. X-Men isn't a story about how mutants are completely misunderstood (they are somewhat misunderstood but some misgivings are completely correct based on the mutant) but about how its about trust and the give and receive relation necessary to foster peace between two or more culturally different groups.

"First up less address the Hrom thing. I don’t know if you’ve read his posts, but they include perfectly riveting stuff like how SJWs should die or be silenced (yet complains when about censorship) compared to the stuff he said about people he has never talked to, mine were tame. I don’t feel like I need to feel superior to anyone. I’d like to think make more reasonable posts than “Canadians, prepare for your manual castration.” and “Only once SJWs are dead as well.”"
"Hrom who are proud GamerGaters and are tolerated in the movement."

Oh really Hrom said those (let's be honest I'm not too surprised if he did)? And you also claim that Hrom is a proud and accepted member of gamergate? Really then perhaps you can show me how many upvotes he got for those comments and how much respect he has from other gamergate members?

If you don't like Hrom that's fine, but under no circumstances is it a fair debate tactic to list a single individual who doesn't appear as influentially as you made him out to be and claim that's the basis for your argument. Literally your entire argument for gamergate is that it should be remade but with Hrom (and people like him) out of it. Except you fail to realize that this pretty much already the case. Do you see anyone taking orders or following the lead of Hrom or people like him? Hrom has apologized and accepted that he goes too far. That's far more reason than I've seen with people who post #killallmen or from people like Leigh Alexander who frequently is allowed to send anti-GG and socjustice members to assault others. You act as if Hrom is so bad… yet he's tame compared to the opposition and under no circumstances has he been allowed to run an OP nor has anyone agreed with him. Hrom's quantifiable damage is zero and I don't see what can be done against Hrom that would be justifiable. What do you want him run out into the street and shot because he sounds crazy? Because I can't see how gamergate could get rid of Hrom and people like him and more than they've already done?

Bookie wrote:

Oh please, /co/ has been hoping for a second comics crash for how long now? And it looks like it’s happening.

As a frequent browser of /co/ I know taking opinions from there is just pointless. If we got what /co/ wanted then we'd magically raise Jack Kirby from the dead, the credits for comics made 50 years ago would we properly understood, every show on Cartoon Network past and present would cancelled and Grant Morrison would do a company wide hypercrisis.

And there's just not enough evidence to indicate a crash anytime too. And plus, even if Marvel and DC went down, there's plenty of SJW content like Bitch Planet in the indie section too, in fact do you remember when Image was at its peak? Damn, I sure do miss the days of all that wildly better content of Youngblood, Wildcatz and Witchblade it was just so much better than the rest of the industry, right?

That’s what happens when a company basically declares war on their customers, and the Big Two have been doing that for almost a decade at this point. One More Day consisted of only one big IP being turned into shit, after another 8 years of that shit spreading everywhere people are walking away.

Except they didn't declare war on their consumers, anyone with a brain knows that One More Day was about trying to de-age a character so that they could return to more classic Spidey stories in which not just Spider-Man fans who grew up with the character could get into. Whether that was a good decision is debatable and it wasn't helped that the actual story was terrible. Honestly it's within the nature of super-heroes to not get old and to end, and to keep changing. If thats something people don't like, fine, but comic fans are aware of this and they continue to read because they enjoy these stories.

I personally would like more indie titles and companies to get bigger, but I want them to get bigger because people buy and enjoy their content and spread their love for those comics, not to spread hate about comics they haven't even read.

There’s a difference between “this shouldn’t exist” and “I will destroy this”, one involves forcing others to think in the same way.

Yes, and both are frankly stupid. Just because SJWs are actively trying to censor shit doesn't mean the sentiment of "I disagree therefore no one should have this" of both statements is childish.

Also are you seriously thinking only GamerGate is repelled by this shit? There’s a lot more then just GamerGate saying this is crap and should never have been published professionally.

And yet you don't see those people tweeting with a hashtag and acting like idiots who pretend this is a war, are hypocritical, and that they are actually solving an industries problems.

The big thing is that even during those “cringey pro-LGBT 90s X-men” they still made this:


Now that’s good, regardless of anything else that’s great writing.
And that’s why those comics shown get such a bad reaction, did “do you think this letter on my head stands for France!” get a bad reaction because because it was “right-wing” or because it was shit?
As for “just don’t buy it”, people are walking away, if you would spend less time trying to insult a hashtag you would have seen it.
Seriously, how much dumb shit have you endorsed or minimized because you want to show those “tribalist GamerGaters” how wrong we are.
If you find that you can’t say something because it would mean “the Gators” are right then you’ve let GamerGate control your life far more then any of us here have.
Have you noticed how better the reaction you’re getting is when you drop that “GamerGate Bad!” attitude and start making actual arguments? Keep doing that.

Well I never said the pro-LGBTs X-Men was cringey

Also you seem to believe that I think people are criticizing bad writing. That's what normal comic book readers do. I've yet to see someone who provides a legitimate criticism of the awful pages of FemThor and associate themselves with any sort of hashtag or movement.

I've never endorsed anything I think is dumb to prove GamerGate wrong. I've always tried to get people to read comics I think they'd like why they might, as well as warn them from things they won't like. I've recommended the new Captain America, not because it was progressive and a fuck you to GamerGate, but because I enjoyed it and I think that people would like this title if they gave it a shot. This is a great video for this sort of thing

And I have agreed with things GamerGaters have said an some YouTubers I like do identify themselves with it. Like yes, Anita Sarkeesian is so wrong it almost hurts, and here's why. If I made a tweet about it, i'd just say that. If I put #GamerGate at the end, first it could put inbetween a bunch of anti-social justice drivel because i'll be lumped with them and secondly now anyone who would listen and who I could possibly convince probably either will straight up think im something im not and will be less willing listen because they personally dislike GamerGate.

So when are you actually gonna start actually understanding and responding to what I said, not what you think I feel.

Making any “new” hashtag will just get called “GamerGate” by the usual suspects, do you remember how #Right2Game was instantly declared GamerGate despite the fact the only commonality was the shared support of gaming?

Also, any attempt to make a “membership list” will only give SJWs a bunch of targets, remember how many got fired in the early days after SJWs doxed them and called their bosses with lies? How about that razor mouse & syringe Milo got in the mail?

This is likely, but GamerGate has no representatives to show that "No, this is about the right to criticize games made by and for any person of any ethnicity."

One of the issues with Gamergate is that anyone can claim to do anything in it's name, they don't even have to believe with the majority. Anything anyone says about GamerGate has an element of truth because the movements goals, ideals and everything like that is so loose that it doesn't have any real meaning.

A properly organized movement could be a bit more risky for the participants but if there is actual set in stone ideas and motives behind it, when you deny things like "this movement is to hurt women", you can actually say no, what key members said that or official movement rules does it state that.

I mean the GamerGaters that supposedly matter are one that don't hide and are the ones that do receive threats. The rest are far too anonymous for them to make a difference, or what difference they make wouldn't be any different if they didn't identify as a Gator.

Hrom wrote:

Just to give an idea of what I em looking for
I really liked Wonder Woman by Bian Azzarello or Action Comics by Grant Morrison
also adore One Punch Man

See, that gives me a bit more to go on. The whole point is I don't know what you consider SJW. Essentially it's like if I wasn't a hardcore gamer all my life and I said recommend me a video game that doesn't have dragons in. There's far more games without dragons then there are ones with it, you could basically give them nearly any game. It's better to ask what you are looking for, not what you're not looking for.

I can't really say I read or watched One Slap Chap and I'm not a fan of Azarello's WW but if you want a fun DC title, go for the early New52 Flash comics. When the team switches over it gets boring but before that it is really solid stuff. It's just a fun ride with some art that is far above average.

MrKillultra wrote:

Why don’t you try starting a reform movement. Let me know how that works… because what you describe sounds like something that is literally impossible to do and would just end up getting tarred and feathered by the media anyway.

So GamerGate will never be accepted and always be considered a bunch of angry nerds then? I believe a more organized movement could actually gain some real progress. It has the potential to be more credible. Sure, you could say you could do this for GamerGate but it's really just a slow sinking ship, and while not impossible to salvage, it seems that the better route is starting again fresh.

Personally while I'm actually planning to enter the games industry, which is what my college course is about, I don't feel like games are under any kind of real threat that warrants a movement, I can see why people do and if they want to, that's fine, I'm just giving my criticisms on the movement (which you can and should be criticized, especially if you hate the immunity to criticism SJWs have)

except you just said that mutants are a gay allegory. I guess gay’s have super powers?

They aren't just a homosexual allegory, like you said they are allegories for all outcasts of society. And again, like you said, it is a case of not accepting these people leads to us missing out on awesome things. Like in real life no one has superpowers but everyone has something. Superpowers just represent skills in real life, like lets say this guy is really good with a bow and arrow, now that skill could provide entertainment or it could be that he could really hurt someone. You wouldn't inherently be scared of a guy with a bow, because there's no one going round calling archers a dangerous group of people.

Yeah that’s why magneto is a major villain… or that time wasp got eaten by that fat mutant jackass. Or the Neo or Cheyarafim or Neyaphem both groups of mutants that just decided hmmm let’s use our powers to make people’s lives miserable.

Magneto, in his best portrayals is never a straight up villain. The whole point is Magneto was made the way he was because of how humans persecute mutants. He witnessed the genocide of his race (Jews) when he was a little boy, and later on he built a utopian society and left humans alone but humans destroyed it all and committed mass mutant genocide. He fears humans in the exact same way they fear mutants, he considers them all as a possible danger and fears them for that reason. The tools in which way humans harm mutants and vice-versa isn't important, it's that they keep driving each other into believing it is.

Like why do mutants that use their powers for evil get just mutants slandered. Why not all superbeings in general. The only time super people in general were actually considered a danger was when they blew up a school.

What do you want him run out into the street and shot because he sounds crazy? Because I can’t see how gamergate could get rid of Hrom and people like him and more than they’ve already done?

To be fair I was unaware Hrom has made an effort to change and is better now. And the point was I don't want anyone to be shot or anything like GamerGaters have said before. While he is an example that you can curb extreme reactionary Gators, a bunch more might take his place. An organized movement wouldn't accept Hrom in the first place until he acted more calmly

Also can you guys cut shit like this out

You'll only push away more neutrals and they'll think you're even bigger assholes than they think you are.

I thought about putting this on the main GG page, but wasn't sure if it belonged there.

Is there any way to bring up some kind of notice whenever someone tries to reply on the GG page, saying the new rules for commenting? It's understandable that people who haven't been on the page don't know the rules, but having to tell them all to go to the forum every single time is getting pretty old.

About that last bit: How? How does that comic relate to gamergate. If anything that comic is against the perception of a human being (who knows/or cares what gender since that can't be extracted from the information in the comic) wearing a mask with tatooed arms, a plaid shirt, bow tie, facial hair, glasses, an ear gauge and a hairstyle talking about how both sides are equally bad.

There is NO mention of Gamergate in that depiction or anything in that comic that links it to the movement. While some people in Gamergate may post it to make fun of that character, it does not mean that the character was created for Gamergate.

Plus that last comment
"You’ll only push away more neutrals and they’ll think you’re even bigger assholes than they think you are." is opinion, not fact. Plus if it were true, there's a lot more BS from the other side.

Given the links above of deception, rallying and overall attacks backed by data compared to the ones on Gamergate I say Gamergate is sitting pretty by comparison.

@spiderbyte
"Personally while I’m actually planning to enter the games industry, which is what my college course is about, I don’t feel like games are under any kind of real threat that warrants a movement, I can see why people do and if they want to, that’s fine, I’m just giving my criticisms on the movement (which you can and should be criticized, especially if you hate the immunity to criticism SJWs have)"

Okay one, you admit that you understand the damage that has been done to industry (I can see why people do) but then say games are not under any kind of threat. I sure hope your college education isn't making you write contradictory and nonsensical statements. Then you write gamergate should be criticized which no one in this thread disagrees with and the simple fact is that everyone's pointing out that you're criticisms do not go beyond conjecture and thus hold no water. Freedom of speech is not a reason to make an argument. What you say here also throws the implication that you think being challenged on your views constitutes as an attempt to censor you.

"You’ll only push away more neutrals and they’ll think you’re even bigger assholes than they think you are."
What the heck does that sentence even mean? They think more about thinking? what? oh wait, you mean 'thought you are'? oh wait it should 'thought you were'. I'm not mad or angry, but I'm getting the distinct impression you're not trying at all. How exactly does taking a hard-line position against attempts to divide up the community and fearmonger drive people away? Oh wait you didn't even explain why that picture is offensive… because its not offensive… it's pointing out how insane you'd have to be to let SJW's get away with things simply because they get criticism. Because Hrom might have posted (you didn't prove that happened or that Hrom has done anything extreme) "SJW must die #2016 #360noscopeheadshot", its totally okay not to do anything about the problem and instead target the critics and even people who aren't going too far. That's what the picture is making fun of… double standards and pretending to be sane and rationally while literally doing everything to derail the debate.

"And the point was I don’t want anyone to be shot or anything like GamerGaters have said before."
Has anyone gotten shot yet? Has gamergate done anything criminal yet? No? Then your concern is unjustified at best and at worst fear mongering. Oh and gamergaters have said? Woah when did you find the secret fringe gamergate cult that's about shooting people? You claim not just one or two people but a whole group if not a representable portion of the movement wants to shoot people! Dang man, I thought you were judging people by the actions of the few but now I see you're just prejudiced against a group of people in general. Try not over generalizing everything, it would help you look like someone who's concerned and not someone who's pigeonholed an entire group of people and expect them to conform to a stereotype you've just made up.

"Superpowers just represent skills in real life, like lets say this guy is really good with a bow and arrow, now that skill could provide entertainment or it could be that he could really hurt someone. You wouldn’t inherently be scared of a guy with a bow, because there’s no one going round calling archers a dangerous group of people."

That's uh… a very horrible analogy. I wouldn't be afraid of an archer because there haven't been reports of dead people with arrows in them lately. And yes I would be scared if his weapon were drawn in public because that's how mass shootings happen. Never mind that an archer can also hunt but apparent he's only good for entertainment or killing people. There's still plenty of reasons to be scared of people with skills in real-life and of course there's no real-life skill analogous to shooting beams from eyes uncontrollably. I honestly don't understand what you're arguing here. It's pretty much off-topic and derailing.

"Magneto, in his best portrayals is never a straight up villain. The whole point is Magneto was made the way he was because of how humans persecute mutants. He witnessed the genocide of his race (Jews) when he was a little boy, and later on he built a utopian society and left humans alone but humans destroyed it all and committed mass mutant genocide. He fears humans in the exact same way they fear mutants, he considers them all as a possible danger and fears them for that reason. The tools in which way humans harm mutants and vice-versa isn’t important, it’s that they keep driving each other into believing it is.
Like why do mutants that use their powers for evil get just mutants slandered. Why not all superbeings in general. The only time super people in general were actually considered a danger was when they blew up a school."

Irrelevant… this counters none of what I had written. This does nothing to push your argument that X-men is about gays or contains themes about gays beyond mere don't judge people. OH and you didn't cover the other three groups on there. That's another bad debate tactic I've seen you use. There's no time limit on your responses spiderbyte. Take your time and do things thoroughly.

"“I think you misunderstood the message of 90s X-Men, it got really heavy with mutants being more of a homosexual allegory” – Spyderbyte saying that I don't understand what X-men is about. Spyderbyte outright says that X-men has less to do with prejudice and cooperation and more to do with gay people… especially considering I just said that it was about prejudice and cooperation.

"They aren’t just a homosexual allegory" -Spyderbyte still saying that I don't understand X-men and then goes on to say it was about prejudice and cooperation.

I have no words spiderbyte. You should probably take a break and carefully start reconsidering what you write so you come off less as someone arguing for the sake of arguing. You literally just said what I said and pretended I didn't know that. For the record I was the one saying it wasn't a homosexual allegory… YOU were saying it was

I can see why you're offended by this considering that you fit the stereotype perfectly and haven't shown anything to justify your argument… like at all. I mean it's very easy to not fit this sterotype. You need to have a point, like any rational individual would have.

"While he is an example that you can curb extreme reactionary Gators, a bunch more might take his place."

Yay doubling down! You know you don't have an argument and you know that gamergate isn't about violence or inciting it but you still choose to believe that someone violent can be gamergate despite the fact they'd get even worse reactions that what Hrom gets (oh and you admit he's not a bad person either… so then where are the bad people in gamergate? Oh wait you can't even prove they exist!). Have you ever considered how much of a fearmonger you sound like? You haven't justified why we shouldn't be actively working against the spread of forced hamfisted politics in comics. You haven't justified that X-men is an allegory for gays at all as opposed to not judging people (and no, an anti-prejudice message is not the same as a pro-gay message). You haven't justified any reason why gamergate should start over or how they even could considering they'll just be in the same position once the media gets their new name. And to top it off you continue to act as if gamergate is nothing but psychopaths (or extremely accepting of them) while doing nothing to prove that either. The icing on the cake is that you still claim to want to stop forced political culture (aka SJW) but claim you won't do anything because gamergate is so evil and disgusting. I can't believe it… I gave you a warning of what picture I was going to post because I knew this was going to happen. How is it that you've written so much and yet supported so little with anything beyond conjecture?

Next time… try to not to just jump into a debate and decide to throw out things you can't even prove. You wanna know why comics aren't as loved as they were? It's because the people who make decisions can't rationally explain why they made them. Maybe you didn't intend to be seen as the guy who brought nothing but opinions to the table and no insight… but sadly you're that guy.

I don't think we can really do that without moderator power. So I've just been doing it the best way I know how:

Make fun of the situation (Deja-Vu joke) and carry on. I mean the cycle now is: someone comments about what's going on or why is GG still a thing and it might trend. Causing lots of complaints for about a day or two keeping it trending because that's how the site works.

The repeated link to the thread helps because it shows were being active in trying to comply with the rules set on this website concerning the documentation of the GG event as it keeps going on in its previous, current and future iterations.

Basically a "we want to keep talking about this event, but please don't ban us because were not intentionally trying to be disruptive" gesture of good will.

Is terribly that Hulutube did happened, people fail to see how the Real Newz channel told everybody about this, like 5 years ago, he got pretty popular, but then people forget.

Good recent video by NateTalksToYou that I recommend to show to anyone if they ask why people have certain opinions on her:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgvYJ9Ei90Y

Also, the things he itemizes in the video, and with how Feminist Frequency treats its critics, makes me think about how the bloggers who are quick to misrepresent things and lie will also go out of their way to shut down down opposing opinions. It's like they are trying to brainwash people with propaganda, not inform them to make responsible decisions. Just a thought.

I also can't embed the video right now, it won't allow me. So, just copy and paste it. I really don't understand how this one isn't allowing that feature, just like the last time I tried. Maybe someone else can explain it.

No idea why you can't embed. But…

1. Go to the video page.
2. Click Share under the video.
3. Click Embed between "Share" and "Email"
4. Copy the Embed code (or click "Show More" for more customization options)
5. Paste the embed code somewhere (eg. here)

I know how to do it. The option wasn't there earlier when I tried to do it, but I'm sure it's there now. I even tried to put in the HTML manually and it didn't show. :/

It's like embedding isn't allowed for a full day after its been uploaded or something. I don't get it, which would be nice if I could get an explanation for that.

@Spider-Byte

As a frequent browser of /co/ I know taking opinions from there is just pointless. If we got what /co/ wanted then we’d magically raise Jack Kirby from the dead, the credits for comics made 50 years ago would we properly understood, every show on Cartoon Network past and present would cancelled and Grant Morrison would do a company wide hypercrisis.

And there’s just not enough evidence to indicate a crash anytime too. And plus, even if Marvel and DC went down, there’s plenty of SJW content like Bitch Planet in the indie section too, in fact do you remember when Image was at its peak? Damn, I sure do miss the days of all that wildly better content of Youngblood, Wildcatz and Witchblade it was just so much better than the rest of the industry, right?

At least /co/ gives some perspective on what the people actually buying comics want, and let's not pretend that every wish is impossible.

And the comics industry is entering a bad time.

As for Image Comics? Savage Dragon, Spawn, and that whole "creator-owned bit" was a big step forward. Regardless of anything else that meant there was an alternative to the staus quo.

Except they didn’t declare war on their consumers, anyone with a brain knows that One More Day was about trying to de-age a character so that they could return to more classic Spidey stories in which not just Spider-Man fans who grew up with the character could get into. Whether that was a good decision is debatable and it wasn’t helped that the actual story was terrible. Honestly it’s within the nature of super-heroes to not get old and to end, and to keep changing. If thats something people don’t like, fine, but comic fans are aware of this and they continue to read because they enjoy these stories.

I personally would like more indie titles and companies to get bigger, but I want them to get bigger because people buy and enjoy their content and spread their love for those comics, not to spread hate about comics they haven’t even read.

Pissing off the long-term customers to pander to a new & untested market is always a worse idea then trying to please both. When the new market thinks the idea is kinda dumb, and it looks like the EIC demanded it be made because of mommy issues? That's a recipe for failure.

Yes, and both are frankly stupid. Just because SJWs are actively trying to censor shit doesn’t mean the sentiment of “I disagree therefore no one should have this” of both statements is childish.

And yet you don’t see those people tweeting with a hashtag and acting like idiots who pretend this is a war, are hypocritical, and that they are actually solving an industries problems.

And here comes the rub, you're more concerned with "avoiding both extremes" then you are with being accurate.

The Golden Mean Fallacy applies here, "change this or I'm going to smear you as a rape-bigot!" & "change this or I'm not buying your product" is in no way equivalent and it's just plain intellectually lazy to claim so.

Also you seem to believe that I think people are criticizing bad writing. That’s what normal comic book readers do. I’ve yet to see someone who provides a legitimate criticism of the awful pages of FemThor and associate themselves with any sort of hashtag or movement.

So "a villainess who went toe-to-toe with She-Hulk all day suddenly refusing to fight FemThor because 'muh girl-power pass!' is dumb" isn't a good criticism?

And I have agreed with things GamerGaters have said an some YouTubers I like do identify themselves with it. Like yes, Anita Sarkeesian is so wrong it almost hurts, and here’s why. If I made a tweet about it, i’d just say that. If I put #GamerGate at the end, first it could put inbetween a bunch of anti-social justice drivel because i’ll be lumped with them and secondly now anyone who would listen and who I could possibly convince probably either will straight up think im something im not and will be less willing listen because they personally dislike GamerGate.

You're going to get called GamerGate the instant you point out Anita is a hack, just like you got called a misogynerd MRA harasser the instant you pointed out Anita is a hack in the old days.

But funny thing, her credibility has been slipping ever since October 2014. Guess when she decided to go all in on "#StopGamerGate2014"?

One of the issues with Gamergate is that anyone can claim to do anything in it’s name, they don’t even have to believe with the majority. Anything anyone says about GamerGate has an element of truth because the movements goals, ideals and everything like that is so loose that it doesn’t have any real meaning.

No, having an "official platform" doesn't stop the lies. Having a "membership list" just gives them targets. But having a loose organized decentralized resistance? It means they attack everything that could be GamerGate, and since GamerGate has a bunch of common-sense, mainstream opinions (free-speech good, corruption bad, SJWs are crazy) that results in them attacking everyone.

I mean the GamerGaters that supposedly matter are one that don’t hide and are the ones that do receive threats. The rest are far too anonymous for them to make a difference, or what difference they make wouldn’t be any different if they didn’t identify as a Gator.

No, they're just the tip of the spear. It's all those little people writing emails, digging up connections, lobbying government regulators, and spreading evidence & arguments that are the weight that gives GamerGate its punch.

You’ll only push away more neutrals and they’ll think you’re even bigger assholes than they think you are.

Do you see the word "GamerGate" on that picture anywhere?

Plus that depends on what "neutrality" actually means, I've seen far too many "both sides are dumb, I'm the smart one because I don't care" morons to pretend that "neutrality" has any innate virtue.

It's especially obvious when those "neutrals" say stuff like "only women-haters aren't feminists", and that's 82% of America. Remember how bad Romney's "47%" comment hurt him? Well those "neutrals" are pretty much saying the same except with 82%.

Journalists Worry More About Anime Women Rights Than Real Human Rights, Says Manga Artist

In an interview with Operation Rainfall, Japanese manga artist Toshio Maeda (La Blue Girl and Urotsukidoji: Legend of the Overfiend) had this to say

"American journalists have come to me and told me that my hentai scenes will corrupt American youth. Yet, you still have very little gun control in America, and kids have access to this all the time. You see in Japan, nothing happens, you can walk on the street in the middle of the night with a skimpy T-shirt or a mini-skirt on and nothing happens, but, in American, seems like you really care about the human rights of the anime and manga world. You don’t give a shit about real human rights, but you will do all you can to judge or put down Japanese culture."

That is a lousy comparison, but he's right. They are not operating in reality and really don't care.

And once again open discussion and healthy debate have been told to go fuck themselves with a cactus, The Guardian’s Observer Shutting Down Comments On Islam, Race, Immigration Topics

Followed by John Cleese: Political Correctness Can Lead to an Orwellian Nightmare

@TheGamerGrim

I wonder if people will try to spin that as "localization" too.

Whelp, Richard Dawkins got no-platformed for tweeting a video. Here's Sargon talking about it:

As for the video in question? (WARNING! TRIGGERING LANGUAGE)

I forget, are we boycotting ARS?

Oh well, here's an article about Yahoo getting sued for possible gender discrimination

link

Yeah, it's owned by the same things as Wired (both of which are Anti-GG) so keep archiving, baby.

The comments are surprisingly level-headed.

I remember a year ago they would have been full of SOCJUS rhetoric, either the mods are asleep or even more people have woken up then I thought.

Gamergate would succeed if we started boycotting sites like IGN.

We already did some boycotts.

IGN decides to talk about the censorship in Fire Emblem: Fates. Grab the popcorn.

The dislikes on that video.

@7:52 "I'm sorry this not just about you"
yup you're totally right. It's about the entire market as a whole and how they're sick and tired of the fact that you don't stick up for their rights and instead act as if we're homophobes for wanting to experience the game as intended. Because clearly the 50, 60…. 70 dollars I will be paying for this game doesn't entitle me to ensure that I actually get my money's worth and not lose out on content because your feelings (and others like yours) were hurt.

Also apparently IGN has been poorly oh wait I mean selectively moderating its comments sections too.

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/ridiculous-levels-of-censorship-these-days-in-ign-articles.454478518/

"I seriously see things like this:

Comment #1: "Anyone who doesn't think this is great is a fucking sexist misogynist piece of scumbag shit that deserves to die." (just fine)

Comment #2: "I respectfully disagree and think this is feminist propaganda." [Removed]."

Yassssssss:

She's really fading into obscurity.

More like running for the hills

And then she'll re emerge as a professional victim. "Gamergate did… donate to my Patreon…"

It would be really hard to enforce, but Patreon really need some sort of "no professional victims / anti-fraud" rule. They're making a mockery of what the site was created for, and are frankly committing fraud.

Most of them aren't committing fraud, they're just milking it for everything it's worth. But given those new FTC regulations it looks like they're going to have a harder time.

And there's always the possibility they decided to do something bad with their victimbux, how many of these people can you imagine not bothering to report their loot to the IRS?

Leigh who?

Surprised you do not know her. You should check out her article on DeepFreeze and Encyclopedia Dramatica to see why some see her so negatively.

Another reason why she's seen so badly is that she wrote one of the famous "Gamers are Dead" articles, in which she said some really incendiary things.

It was a joke about she leaving actually.

So this silly Christian turned down $25+100 to review Pirates Tides of Fortune, offered to review it fairly and for free instead. #GamerGate

Christ Centered Gamer, Game Journalism as it should be.

^Now that's what I call a good Christian

GamesMaster interview with Eiji Aonuma (The Legend of Zelda)

"Occasionally I receive messages from fans telling me how playing Zelda games has changed their lives. While of course this makes me incredibly happy to hear, I feel a great sense of responsibility as well, so part of me feels that developers putting their own ideologies in games is kind of scary."