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#2, implementing a toggle option for memes only, could be a viable solution.

Banning non-meme content would be a sure way to turn this site into a ghost town. I'll be honest, I'm not frequenting this site to read up about the latest TikTok trend or Wojak-oomer Edit No. 468.

Chances are I'm not the only one feeling this way. I appreciate having some nice fanart to look at here.

"Non-meme content is defined here as content which is not clearly intended to be amusing, thought-provoking, transformative, or conducive to original discussion."

You must not enjoy or think much because plenty of the art is amusing and go into any art post with a large comment section and you'll see that it can indeed be rather "thought-provoking" and "conducive to original discussion" from time to time.

And besides, like Nigel the treasure hunter said: You'd just be shooing away a good amount of the userbase and getting rid of the alternative to the Wojak Spam Tik-Tok ads and the 24/7 internet spew of trivia and celebrity bullshit.

meme
/mēm/
noun
an element of a culture or system of behavior that may be considered to be passed from one individual to another by nongenetic means, especially imitation.
a humorous image, video, piece of text, etc., that is copied (often with slight variations) and spread rapidly by Internet users.

I searched for what a non-meme is and I couldn't find it.

Reminded of this:

Basically this.

If option 1 does get implemented then it’ll just be a never ending flood of -oomer Wojak #5988 variant coming out of 4chan and whatever new Tik Tok meme that’s “popular” for about a week. This’ll be a sure fire away to scare away half of the users from the site or outright kill the site.

"often with slight variations"
Lol
Like the art reposted from Twitter? There are no variations on that. Non-meme was defined in the act, but it's basically the opposite of the definition you gave for meme. E.g. 99% of all the art shit people post to this site.

Yes, the people who are only here for the art will leave for the boorus. But that's not everyone. And besides, if people want to see art, they can go to the proper places for it. So, yes, this site would have a smaller userbase, but it would become a proper meme site. And I think that's more than worth it.

I do look at the comment sections for the art regularly. I'm afraid 90% is just shit like "damn i wanna fuck this dog/horse/anime girl/whateverthefuck" and/or just posting more porn. Some of it may be humorous, and I suppose I would cautiously support humorous art content, but art content made to be amusing is the minority, the overwhelming majority is just soft porn.

I have addressed Nigel the treasure hunter's point elsewhere in the thread, if you're interested in reading my response to that.

That's much too generalised to have anything to with, and doesn't address the contents of, the MEME act. There's nothing memetic about spamming thousands of near-identical pictures of scantily-clad anime characters.

Bro, did you just post five times in a row on your own thread when you could've addressed everything in a single post? That's kinda cringe, bro…

Anyway, I'm someone who finds big breasts unappealing, but I'd rather have pages of nothing but overripe galungas and glowing eye Akus than 9gag's newest -oomer Wojaks, random TikTok fads that died an hour before they got an article, the spew of radical factions of American politics, and "celebrity" bullshit.

Yeah, I probably should have thought to put everything in one post. I'm kind of new to the forum.

There are plenty of memes outside of what you mentioned. And the answer to bad memes isn't to replace them with fanart spam, it's to create better memes. This insistence on making the site a shitty booru is only contributing to the lack of good memes, as it buries anything worth meme-ing under a colossal mountain of shit.

Btw, this forum was created by someone who has already gotten suspended twice.

Obamium wrote:

Non-meme content has no place on a site whose express purpose is to document memes

Know Your Meme About page:

Know Your Meme is a site that researches and documents Internet memes and viral phenomena.

Obamium wrote:

Non-meme content is defined here as content which is not clearly intended to be amusing, thought-provoking, transformative, or conducive to original discussion.

This is so incredibly vague as to be nearly meaningless. Image entry about politician doing something that goes against norms generally fits in these (thought-provoking, conducive to original discussion). Almost all fanart falls under transformative. Amusing is such a subjective term there is no way it could ever be enforced as a rule.

Obamium wrote:

The number of non-memer posters and their dedication to flooding image galleries with non-meme content leads to genuine memes being overwhelmed and buried under the tidal waves of spam.

Instead of going after other users on a site that you have only been on for seven months, how about you contribute to the change you want to see?

Obamium wrote:

When entire image galleries are regularly created only to post pictures of anime, furry content, fetish art, and other popular but entirely non-memetic material, to the point where seeing actual memes becomes nearly impossible, it constitutes a flagrant mockery of this site's values.

Again, you've been on the site for seven months. Mods already get enough flack for removing images that are too NSFW/Racist/Transphobic, etc. for the site. While most of the mods do agree that people who use the site primarily for their stash of favorite lewds would be better off elsewhere, it really only becomes an issue for few uses that are adamant that mods are in the wrong for removing said images.

Obamium wrote:

Because the sole, express purpose of KnowYourMeme is to document memes, it is a highly unsuitable place for non-meme posters.

Again, see the about page.

Obamium wrote:

consider applying this act to site policy

There is no way something that directly goes against the site's objective is going to be implemented as 'policy'.

Obamium wrote:

Solution 2: The Split

There is near universal interest in having the ability filter out certain content for being visible so that people can choose what they want to see. This goes far beyond what you are considering. Every time a new fandom springs in popularity, there are some that just don't wish to see it. And of course the ever present wish that politics and controversies were easier to ignore.

Unfortunately, the fact that it took several days to even get something as basic as comments working like they are supposed to highlights the fact the site is basically held together with the coding equivalent of rubber bands and scotch tape. Maybe someday this will happen along with the dozens of other features users, moderators, and admins want. But it unfortunately probably won't be soon.

Nigel wrote:

I'm not frequenting this site to read up about the latest TikTok trend or Wojak-oomer Edit No. 468.

Pretty much this. While there are a lot of other memes out there that need entries… Most users are too lazy to actually write them, and those that do too often get bombarded with other users complaining about the state of the entry or somehow that the fact the entry was made is a sign the entry creator endorses the meme or is actually just spamming their own OC. Encouraging more users to actually make entries, and importantly, to actually offer to help fix them instead of just complaining would do a better job of helping the site that everyone can agree on as oppose to arbitrarily banning content.

Obamium wrote:

As for affecting the user count, I'd rather have a small site committed to memes than a popular site filled with shit that belongs on boorus.

If the dichotomy actually worked like this then you might find some people that agree with you. This assumes, of course, that you would actually be left with a few users highly committed to memes. Barring the admins, there really aren't too many users that are left that really meet this criteria. There are some mods and non-mods that do make entries from time to time, don't get me wrong. But most have real lives and only have a few notable site related activities a few times a month, and even then, not consistently. If you got rid of the community of 'non-meme posters' I can guarantee many of these users will eventually leave as well, and probably will not be replaced.

Obamium wrote:

Like the art reposted from Twitter? There are no variations on that.

Ah yes, someone drawing something in their own style has no variation of the original thing. /s

Obamium wrote:

This insistence on making the site a shitty booru is only contributing to the lack of good memes, as it buries anything worth meme-ing under a colossal mountain of shit.

Here is the TL;DR overarching point that needs to be made here:

You are proposing a fundamental change to the site seemingly based on the idea that content you do not like has a negative impact on content you do like, and that somehow, removing the content you don't like will increase the amount of content you do like. This when you yourself have made rather paltry contributions to the content you claim should be on the site, having uploaded only 20 images and having no article contributions.

Trust me, I have had my fair share of ideas on how the site should be run that were not popular with large numbers of users. But most of these were disagreements on how content was organized, not that some content was inherently unworthy of being on the site. Additionally, while some of my ideas were unpopular, I was also willing to do the work to actually address said changes.

It is fine to not love everything about the site, and you would be far from the first person that dislikes how much attention sexualized fanart gets over more traditional memes. But your overall mindset that this proposal will improve the site is fundamentally flawed in assuming that it will bring in more of what you consider relevant content. Likewise, it assumes that the users that do post relevant content will maintain their presence here even after the rest of the community leaves. You would be better off being the change you wish to see than asking everyone else to change to your own desires.

I take back everything I ever said about mods being gay because…holy shit.

Mods are very heterosexual

I honestly can't take seriously a broken record user that will most likely not survive to the end of the year without getting banned or deactivated.

This guy is also an anti anime troll to the point that he made fun of the kyoto animation arson just for the sake of attention.

Heres the thread

https://knowyourmeme.com/comments/5360741#comment_5360741

Also ill be surprised if this guy survives this month.

Btw, this forum was created by someone who has already gotten suspended twice.

This guy is also an anti anime troll to the point that he made fun of the kyoto animation arson just for the sake of attention.

Heres the thread

https://knowyourmeme.com/comments/5360741#comment_5360741

Well, I appreciate you stalking my comment history to find dirt on me, but couldn't you have picked one of my funnier comments? Lol. Anyway, this is ad hominem and meaningless, my comment and suspension history is irrelevant.

Also ill be surprised if this guy survives this month.

I honestly can't take seriously a broken record user that will most likely not survive to the end of the year without getting banned or deactivated.

I've been here seven months already and I'm still here.

Know Your Meme About page:


Know Your Meme is a site that researches and documents Internet memes and viral phenomena.

Obamium wrote:

Non-meme content is defined here as content which is not clearly intended to be amusing, thought-provoking, transformative, or conducive to original discussion.

This is so incredibly vague as to be nearly meaningless. Image entry about politician doing something that goes against norms generally fits in these (thought-provoking, conducive to original discussion). Almost all fanart falls under transformative. Amusing is such a subjective term there is no way it could ever be enforced as a rule.

- Jill

You're right that a lot of this is subjective. "Viral phenomena" for example could mean many things. But that's one of the reasons why things like this need to clarified, because no matter how subjective things get, there is content that could absolutely be outlawed and deemed non-meme material. I think that with the right description, it would be very clear what does and does not constitute meme material, imperfections in the MEME act and unclear language in site documentation aside.

Obamium wrote:

The number of non-memer posters and their dedication to flooding image galleries with non-meme content leads to genuine memes being overwhelmed and buried under the tidal waves of spam.

Instead of going after other users on a site that you have only been on for seven months, how about you contribute to the change you want to see?

- Jill

Well, I have been contributing. Perhaps not with the vigour one might expect from the intensity of my opinion, but I have been creating content. I refer you to the beginning of my bill, which states that its aim is not "hostile towards any user or group of users". I am not going after any specific users, I simply wish to see content reform.

Obamium wrote:

When entire image galleries are regularly created only to post pictures of anime, furry content, fetish art, and other popular but entirely non-memetic material, to the point where seeing actual memes becomes nearly impossible, it constitutes a flagrant mockery of this site's values.

Again, you've been on the site for seven months. Mods already get enough flack for removing images that are too NSFW/Racist/Transphobic, etc. for the site. While most of the mods do agree that people who use the site primarily for their stash of favorite lewds would be better off elsewhere, it really only becomes an issue for few uses that are adamant that mods are in the wrong for removing said images.

- Jill

I appreciate the work the moderators do, truly. But, with respect, when the site policy is so lenient, and the galleries already filled with borderline porn, perhaps that is what encourages the posting of NSFW content.

There is near universal interest in having the ability filter out certain content for being visible so that people can choose what they want to see. This goes far beyond what you are considering. Every time a new fandom springs in popularity, there are some that just don't wish to see it. And of course the ever present wish that politics and controversies were easier to ignore.

Unfortunately, the fact that it took several days to even get something as basic as comments working like they are supposed to highlights the fact the site is basically held together with the coding equivalent of rubber bands and scotch tape. Maybe someday this will happen along with the dozens of other features users, moderators, and admins want. But it unfortunately probably won't be soon.

- Jill

Understandable. Although the fact that features like the NSFW filter already exist suggests that a non-meme filter wouldn't be too hard to implement. That makes sense to me, but not being a web developer, perhaps I am mistaken.

Nigel wrote:

I'm not frequenting this site to read up about the latest TikTok trend or Wojak-oomer Edit No. 468.

Pretty much this. While there are a lot of other memes out there that need entries… Most users are too lazy to actually write them, and those that do too often get bombarded with other users complaining about the state of the entry or somehow that the fact the entry was made is a sign the entry creator endorses the meme or is actually just spamming their own OC. Encouraging more users to actually make entries, and importantly, to actually offer to help fix them instead of just complaining would do a better job of helping the site that everyone can agree on as oppose to arbitrarily banning content.

- Jill

I agree with most of this. I will obviously have to disagree with banning non-meme content as defined in the act and my posts being "arbitrary", as I do believe that, as part of a larger plan (including some of the measures you mentioned), it would be beneficial for the overall quality of content for the site.

(ran out of characters, splitting post here)

Obamium wrote:

As for affecting the user count, I'd rather have a small site committed to memes than a popular site filled with shit that belongs on boorus.

If the dichotomy actually worked like this then you might find some people that agree with you. This assumes, of course, that you would actually be left with a few users highly committed to memes. Barring the admins, there really aren't too many users that are left that really meet this criteria. There are some mods and non-mods that do make entries from time to time, don't get me wrong. But most have real lives and only have a few notable site related activities a few times a month, and even then, not consistently. If you got rid of the community of 'non-meme posters' I can guarantee many of these users will eventually leave as well, and probably will not be replaced.

- Jill

Well, this will be subjective, but as I said in the post you quoted, I don't believe lack of non-memers is a negative thing. I also find it very hard to believe that so many people would be into the art posted here. I mean, whether it's disgusting fetish art, anime, furries, or anything else, the unifying attribute of most of the art here is its lack of mainstream appeal. Are that many people really into such niche content? On a meme site of all places? Memes being almost synonymous with comedy on today's internet.

Obamium wrote:

Like the art reposted from Twitter? There are no variations on that.

Ah yes, someone drawing something in their own style has no variation of the original thing. /s

- Jill

More obscured phrasing and semantics on my part. I admit, I could have worded a few things better. This could be cleaned up if the act were made site policy. It wouldn't be too difficult to specify and outlaw the art spam people post here.

Obamium wrote:

This insistence on making the site a shitty booru is only contributing to the lack of good memes, as it buries anything worth meme-ing under a colossal mountain of shit.

Here is the TL;DR overarching point that needs to be made here:

You are proposing a fundamental change to the site seemingly based on the idea that content you do not like has a negative impact on content you do like, and that somehow, removing the content you don't like will increase the amount of content you do like. This when you yourself have made rather paltry contributions to the content you claim should be on the site, having uploaded only 20 images and having no article contributions.

Trust me, I have had my fair share of ideas on how the site should be run that were not popular with large numbers of users. But most of these were disagreements on how content was organized, not that some content was inherently unworthy of being on the site. Additionally, while some of my ideas were unpopular, I was also willing to do the work to actually address said changes.

- Jill

I am not a mod nor a staff member. I am unable, being one person, to bring about change on my own. As for uploading only 20 images, well… quality over quantity. And as for not making contributions to articles, I'm not much of a meme researcher. I will gladly create memes and comment on them, but finding memes in the wild and characterising them is a separate skill, one which I am fine with relegating to those better at it than myself.

It is fine to not love everything about the site, and you would be far from the first person that dislikes how much attention sexualized fanart gets over more traditional memes. But your overall mindset that this proposal will improve the site is fundamentally flawed in assuming that it will bring in more of what you consider relevant content. Likewise, it assumes that the users that do post relevant content will maintain their presence here even after the rest of the community leaves. You would be better off being the change you wish to see than asking everyone else to change to your own desires.

- Jill

I would be fascinated to see what the userbase as a whole thought of these proposals. I think if there were a poll, prominently featured on the site's main page, not somewhere in the forums (the replies posted here are too few to accurately gauge consensus), and people could vote on that, that would provide an accurate representation of the userbase's consensus. As for the whether the proposal would improve the site, that would be conjecture, fascinating though it is to discuss.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply, I do appreciate it.

Obamium wrote:

But that's one of the reasons why things like this need to clarified,

>things like this need to be clarified
>need to be clarified
>need

Obamium wrote:

I think that with the right description, it would be very clear what does and does not constitute meme material, imperfections in the MEME act and unclear language in site documentation aside.

If the one person who is actually wanting this to happen cannot clearly define what it is that they want in a way that other people can understand, how is asking people who have an even less idea of what you want and completely disagree with it supposed to help exactly?

We already have enough rules that are important to keep the site functioning as is that get complaints as being too vague. I adding new rules that simultaneously go against the reason the site exists and are even more vague isn't what users want.

Obamium wrote:

Well, I have been contributing. Perhaps not with the vigour one might expect from the intensity of my opinion, but I have been creating content.

You mean how you couldn't even follow the reaction images upload guidelines and posted a Mitt Romney image there instead of his dedicated page? Which you also tagged as OC despite it clearly not being something you created other than screen capping it.

I know it's an Ad hominem, but if you can't even follow the rules the site already has you're really not in a great position to claim that there needs to be new rules.

Obamium wrote:

[the] aim is not "hostile towards any user or group of users".

You are literally saying certain content 'has no place on [the] site' that it's 'spam' an 'abuse of KYM's image galleries' 'a flagrant mockery of this site's values' 'and it must be stopped' and admit that it will lead to 'a widespread exodus of non-meme posters' but that this would be 'no great loss'

Obamium wrote:

when the site policy is so lenient, and the galleries already filled with borderline porn, perhaps that is what encourages the posting of NSFW content.

>perhaps

So you yourself aren't even confident that this proposed rule change that no one has expressed interest in which you admit will lead to there being fewer users on the site will even do the one thing that you want it to do?

Obamium wrote:

I also find it very hard to believe that so many people would be into the art posted here.

Have you even once looked at the trending images gallery with both NSFW and Subcultures visible? Content that you would deem 'non-meme content' is constantly there.

Obamium wrote:

whether it's disgusting fetish art, anime, furries, or anything else, the unifying attribute of most of the art here is its lack of mainstream appeal.

How exactly is 'lacking mainstream appeal' supposed to be an argument for barring anything?

The unspoken guidance for if a fetish merits an entry is that they DO lack irl mainstream appeal. Being eaten alive, turned into a living balloon or inanimate object, aren't really anatomically possible, and did not see major spread until online communities around them popped up.

Obamium wrote:

Are that many people really into such niche content? On a meme site of all places?

Yes

Obamium wrote:

Memes being almost synonymous with comedy on today's internet.

Comedy is subject, not everyone finds racist/sexist/anti-LGBT/etc. memes funny, or might find some funny but others not so. Also, read the about page about how the site researches and documents Internet memes and viral phenomena.

Obamium wrote:

I am unable, being one person, to bring about change on my own.

This isn't true. Individuals in the past who have been dedicated enough and convinced others were able to eventually lead to changes in the site.

(Context for younger users: Delta/That Glaceon made that thread, which played a large part in them, and other users such as myself, joining the mod team)

Obamium wrote:

I would be fascinated to see what the userbase as a whole thought of these proposals.

If only there was some sort of way to gauge what other people thought of other's ideas on the website. Perhaps directly under a poster's user name…

Again, look at the votes on the trending content that you wish ban from the site. These frequently gain over a hundred upvotes. Your posts are getting no upvotes.

Alternatively, look at the community response to the KYM collector bot. It really supplemented the daily image uploads to the site, and almost all of it was of actual (Reddit) memes and not just fanart. And people hated it. While I personally think it was a net positive for the site's purpose of collecting memes, especially since many would otherwise slip through the cracks (and the site now has a feature that lets Google put what it thinks is the text in the image into the metadata), it wasn't something most people wanted implemented.

If I haven't made this clear, and I cannot stress this enough, this isn't going to happen.

Ideally the feature that admins, mods, and user have been clamoring to have for years, a more expanded and functional site feature, may eventually come into existence. But prospects of that happening soon are unfortunately unlikely. If this ever does come to pass, it will not be because of this thread.

The rest of this is so out of touch with how the admins have run the site, and how the vast majority of the community wants the site to be run that it is very difficult for many not to see this entire thread as a poor attempt at trolling.

I get it. Everyone has some issue with something that happens on the site. I personally avoid looking a the front page and anything that falls under editorials. Airing your grievances, and importantly, suggesting ways to address them is good. I will give you credit for that.

But this is entirely unfeasible. Outside of the highly requested filter, these isn't demand for this. You admit it will drive many uses away. Many of the users who do contribute with the content you actually wish to see are here in part due to the community. Arbitrarily removing the reason many users stay here will inevitably lead to many of the ones you would wish to keep to leave as well.

Yeah, and in less than two months you have already gotten yourself suspended twice, i dont know why, but its obvious that you werent following the rules of this site.

Seriously, i totally understand if you dont want to see NSFW fanart in here, but this is a battle that you cant win, i mean look at all of the downvotes you have gotten in this forum, you still thing you got a chance?.

To not get confused i was responding to this

"I've been here seven months already and I'm still here."

Obamium wrote:

But that's one of the reasons why things like this need to clarified,

>things like this need to be clarified
>need to be clarified
>need

Obamium wrote:
I think that with the right description, it would be very clear what does and does not constitute meme material, imperfections in the MEME act and unclear language in site documentation aside.

If the one person who is actually wanting this to happen cannot clearly define what it is that they want in a way that other people can understand, how is asking people who have an even less idea of what you want and completely disagree with it supposed to help exactly?

We already have enough rules that are important to keep the site functioning as is that get complaints as being too vague. I adding new rules that simultaneously go against the reason the site exists and are even more vague isn't what users want.

I was unaware of the ubiquity of the terms "art" and "fanart" when I wrote the act. So now that we know that's what I was talking about, we can end the semantics debate now.

Obamium wrote:

Well, I have been contributing. Perhaps not with the vigour one might expect from the intensity of my opinion, but I have been creating content.

You mean how you couldn't even follow the reaction images upload guidelines and posted a Mitt Romney image there instead of his dedicated page? Which you also tagged as OC despite it clearly not being something you created other than screen capping it.

I know it's an Ad hominem, but if you can't even follow the rules the site already has you're really not in a great position to claim that there needs to be new rules.

Ah, come on, one post where I didn't notice the extra rules? That's just petty. I think every user, at some point in their time here, has made one or two minor slip ups.

You are literally saying certain content 'has no place on [the] site' that it's 'spam' an 'abuse of KYM's image galleries' 'a flagrant mockery of this site's values' 'and it must be stopped' and admit that it will lead to 'a widespread exodus of non-meme posters' but that this would be 'no great loss'

My personal opinions expressed outside of the act are not necessarily relevant to the contents of the act. And criticising content is not the same as criticising users.

Obamium wrote:

when the site policy is so lenient, and the galleries already filled with borderline porn, perhaps that is what encourages the posting of NSFW content.

>perhaps

So you yourself aren't even confident that this proposed rule change that no one has expressed interest in which you admit will lead to there being fewer users on the site will even do the one thing that you want it to do?

My saying "perhaps" was just a gentler way of expressing my opinion. To clear it up, yes I am confident that tightening content restrictions would reduce moderators' workload.

Obamium wrote:

Memes being almost synonymous with comedy on today's internet.

Comedy is subject, not everyone finds racist/sexist/anti-LGBT/etc. memes funny, or might find some funny but others not so. Also, read the about page about how the site researches and documents Internet memes and viral phenomena.

- Jill

You seem to have taken this out of context, but maybe that's the fault of a misplaced fullstop/period on my part. When I said memes were "almost synonymous with comedy on today's internet", it was part of a broader comparison between memes and fanart.

Obamium wrote:

I also find it very hard to believe that so many people would be into the art posted here.

Have you even once looked at the trending images gallery with both NSFW and Subcultures visible? Content that you would deem 'non-meme content' is constantly there.

Obamium wrote:

I would be fascinated to see what the userbase as a whole thought of these proposals.

If only there was some sort of way to gauge what other people thought of other's ideas on the website. Perhaps directly under a poster's user name…

Again, look at the votes on the trending content that you wish ban from the site.

I have already expressed why I don't regard the votes here as indicative of the userbase's consensus. Nor do I believe the upvotes on art/fanart expresses it, for the simple reason that there's so much of it, people would tire of downvoting it, even if they truly hated it.

Alternatively, look at the community response to the KYM collector bot. It really supplemented the daily image uploads to the site, and almost all of it was of actual (Reddit) memes and not just fanart. And people hated it. While I personally think it was a net positive for the site's purpose of collecting memes, especially since many would otherwise slip through the cracks (and the site now has a feature that lets Google put what it thinks is the text in the image into the metadata), it wasn't something most people wanted implemented.

I can imagine that a bot would be imperfect and end up uploading a lot of content people didn't like. I assume you're bringing it up because the bot was intended to improve content quality, the same goal as my proposal. But I think it's just too different a situation to be relevant here.

Seriously, i totally understand if you dont want to see NSFW fanart in here, but this is a battle that you cant win, i mean look at all of the downvotes you have gotten in this forum, you still thing you got a chance?.

- MP1996

If I haven't made this clear, and I cannot stress this enough, this isn't going to happen.

Outside of the highly requested filter, these isn't demand for this.

– Jill

The filter is part of the act, so those two statements contradict each other somewhat. I was unaware of the support for a filter until seeing the idea praised
in this very thread. Maybe if people could hear it from someone more respected than myself, the idea would gain significant, meaningful support. I myself support the filter solution. I suppose the presence of the ban solution, merely presented as an alternative option, combined with me being the one writing the act, is what has led to the downvoting. If someone has even a slightly negative opinion of a user, chances are they will kneejerk downvote everything they post no matter what it is. For example, someone went through my forum history and downvoted one of my posts, the contents of which was simply the Doom 3 theme! How could someone even downvote this:

I bet they never even listened to it.

Yeah, and in less than two months you have already gotten yourself suspended twice, i dont know why, but its obvious that you werent following the rules of this site.

- MP1996

Do you know why I was suspended? Because I dared speak out against the status quo, dared to deviate from the hivemind. People have done far worse than anything I've ever done and got away with it. Please don't blindly assume I was breaking the rules.

-

So, to attempt to summarise, it looks to me like the idea of an art/fanart filter has a chance at seeing the light of day if it were wrapped up in a prettier package, and espoused by someone other than myself. The ban solution remains disliked to controversial, at least in this thread. I don't have a whole lot of data to draw these conclusions on besides the responses in this thread and anecdotal evidence from users who have been longer. Still, based on the data given, it seems accurate.

Obamium: "[the] aim is not "hostile towards any user or group of users"."

Also Obamium:

A lot of your arguments for this can be summarised like this:

"I think adding these features will improve the site, I have no definitive evidence that this will work, just anecdotal evidence from a small sample of the site's userbase, but it will PROBABLY work."

But to go into further detail about some of your other points…

My saying "perhaps" was just a gentler way of expressing my opinion. To clear it up, yes I am confident that tightening content restrictions would reduce moderators' workload.

Besides having no idea how much a moderator actually deletes or edits in a day, tightening content restrictions would likely do nothing except decrease the amount of images that get uploaded to the site. This would do nothing to prevent trolls from flooding random image galleries with hardcore porn and obscene content and would still give the mods just as much work. In fact, in a worst case scenario, it may make the moderator's jobs HARDER by having to delete content that was previously considered okay but not anymore under these revised new rules.

You seem to have taken this out of context, but maybe that's the fault of a misplaced fullstop/period on my part. When I said memes were "almost synonymous with comedy on today's internet", it was part of a broader comparison between memes and fanart.

KYM doesn't just document memes but also viral phenomena. I believe this was already mentioned but just to clarify, viral phenomena can mean communities with large followings and big events that take place around the world. While fanart and pictures of these events may not be memes, they are still viral phenomena and should be documented as such.

I have already expressed why I don't regard the votes here as indicative of the userbase's consensus. Nor do I believe the upvotes on art/fanart expresses it, for the simple reason that there's so much of it, people would tire of downvoting it, even if they truly hated it.

To some users, downvoting something they dislike may be seen as them giving it attention and driving traffic to it thus making it easier for other people to find. Of course, they wouldn't want something they hate to get attention, so they likely just ignore the image and hope it gets buried along with the rest of the images. On the opposite end, users who like something want traffic to be driven to it, so they're far more likely to leave a like on it compared to giving attention to something they dislike. Of course, this is simply my own interpretation and you're free to disagree with it.

If someone has even a slightly negative opinion of a user, chances are they will kneejerk downvote everything they post no matter what it is

This is objectively untrue, I've seen the occasional top comment from users that often get their comments buried and well respected users with frequent top comments get the occasional buried comment. I'd link an example but admittedly I'm too lazy to go through the comment history of the users I have in mind but maybe if I'm feeling up to it I can link some another time.

Do you know why I was suspended? Because I dared speak out against the status quo, dared to deviate from the hivemind. People have done far worse than anything I've ever done and got away with it. Please don't blindly assume I was breaking the rules.

Please, we both know this isn't true. You've made several comments on images and entries that reek of anti-furry/anti-anime sentiment. Not the typical "I don't like this" comment but comments such as "Weebs are pedos" or "Furries should be kept away from society." This doesn't just apply to those two of course. you've made several comments about other communities that are just hateful for the sake of being hateful (including a bit of racism, imagine that?)

Example 1
Example 2
Example 3
Example 4
Example 5
Example 6
Example 7
Example 8

The last one is especially interesting because, while not being hateful, it was posted on an entry that hasn't been relevant for over 5 years, this tells me that you're actively looking out for entries and communities to shit on rather than just ignoring it.

To conclude, while I share the sentiment that the site could do with some improvements, the mods have already explained why these can't be done and it is clear that you don't understand the main purpose of the site, it's community or how to act around other users.

Besides having no idea how much a moderator actually deletes or edits in a day, tightening content restrictions would likely do nothing except decrease the amount of images that get uploaded to the site. This would do nothing to prevent trolls from flooding random image galleries with hardcore porn and obscene content and would still give the mods just as much work.

- SHSLNecromancer

It doesn't seem too much of a stretch to say that a site whose (unofficial) rules say "post horny fanart, just don't show le nipples" will get more hardcore porn spam than a site that outright bans fanart.

In fact, in a worst case scenario, it may make the moderator's jobs HARDER by having to delete content that was previously considered okay but not anymore under these revised new rules.

- SHSLNecromancer

I do think that would happen in the short term aftermath of implementing the ban option of the MEME act (remember, there's a filter option in there too). In the short term. But within days, fanart spammers would be warned and punished for treating the site like a booru, and the spam would subside.

KYM doesn't just document memes but also viral phenomena. I believe this was already mentioned but just to clarify, viral phenomena can mean communities with large followings and big events that take place around the world. While fanart and pictures of these events may not be memes, they are still viral phenomena and should be documented as such.

- SHSLNecromancer

I've seen this "viral phenomena" line brandished like a shield to attempt to justify the non-memetic, esoteric, often bizarre fanart posted to this site. But like the second amendment of the United States Constitution, it couldn't predict the horrors of the future (NSFW). Fanart could still be banned, and the meaning of this phrase amended.

To some users, downvoting something they dislike may be seen as them giving it attention and driving traffic to it thus making it easier for other people to find. Of course, they wouldn't want something they hate to get attention, so they likely just ignore the image and hope it gets buried along with the rest of the images. On the opposite end, users who like something want traffic to be driven to it, so they're far more likely to leave a like on it compared to giving attention to something they dislike. Of course, this is simply my own interpretation and you're free to disagree with it.

- SHSLNecromancer

I agree with that. I don't think that contradicts or disproves my point on why users don't downvote fanart though.

["If someone has even a slightly negative opinion of a user, chances are they will kneejerk downvote everything they post no matter what it is"- Obamium-987]

This is objectively untrue, I've seen the occasional top comment from users that often get their comments buried and well respected users with frequent top comments get the occasional buried comment. I'd link an example but admittedly I'm too lazy to go through the comment history of the users I have in mind but maybe if I'm feeling up to it I can link some another time.

You're right that comments from unpopular users sometimes get upvotes, and vice versa. It's even happened to me a couple of times. But this just isn't true across the board, people absolutely do get downvoted because of their reputation/opinions sometimes. And I have provided an example of downvote stalking in an earlier post.

[Do you know why I was suspended? Because I dared speak out against the status quo, dared to deviate from the hivemind. People have done far worse than anything I've ever done and got away with it. Please don't blindly assume I was breaking the rules. – Obamium-987]

Please, we both know this isn't true. You've made several comments on images and entries that reek of anti-furry/anti-anime sentiment. Not the typical "I don't like this" comment but comments such as "Weebs are pedos" or "Furries should be kept away from society." This doesn't just apply to those two of course. you've made several comments about other communities that are just hateful for the sake of being hateful (including a bit of racism, imagine that?)

What's wrong with being anti furry/anti weeb? Banning criticism of popular but sometimes sinister subcultures would be a dangerous precedent. And "hateful for the sake of being hateful"? Well, sometimes, you just dislike something. It's not necessarily something you can explain, but it's a part of your personality, and you should be allowed to express it. Same if you like something.

OK, that's a lot of comments. Let's go through them one at a time.

Example 1

Don't see what's wrong with this. Neckbeards like anime and fast food. Hell, I think it was a smart marketing decision on McDonald's part. As for me saying it's "fucking disgusting", well, that's because I don't like anime. Lol.

Example 2

Yeah, a bit of playful edgy humour here. I thought the site liked stuff like this (well, not if it's at the expense of their weeb shit obviously). Free speech and all that.

Example 3

This is backed up by fact. Doki doki features underage characters, the fans of which relentlessly sexualise. I've had enough unwilling exposure to that damn game and I don't want to see any more of it, so you can google it if you want some proof.

Example 4

Joke. People just got pissy cause it was on one of their super serious news articles.

Example 5

Again, don't see what's wrong with this one. It's my opinion, and the facts stated in this comment are true.

Example 6

Same as Example 4.

Example 7

To those who click this and don't read the comment I was replying to, this was a comeback to someone who told me to "keep crying". I think I was justified in typing my response, especially considering it's a bit hypocritical for a Nintendo fan to act like the mature one.

Example 8

The last one is especially interesting because, while not being hateful, it was posted on an entry that hasn't been relevant for over 5 years, this tells me that you're actively looking out for entries and communities to shit on rather than just ignoring it.

That's an interesting point, but the truth is I don't look for entries I'll dislike, purely because I don't have to. They're all over the front page.
Now, for Fatlus, I can't remember how I found that, honestly. But I'm glad I did, that meme is hilarious. I'm not too good at finding memes I do like, so I likely just stumbled across it. The meme's irrelevance had no influence on my comment, I just commented because I liked the meme and thought people's reactions to it were funny.

To conclude, while I share the sentiment that the site could do with some improvements, the mods have already explained why these can't be done and it is clear that you don't understand the main purpose of the site, it's community or how to act around other users.

So much contradiction in this thread. I feel like so many people misunderstood the MEME act and didn't notice Solution #2. The few people who did even expressed support for it. Look, the MEME act does not call for an outright ban, that is only one option out of the two presented. And actually, Jill (the only moderator who has posted in this thread so far) has even said that the fanart filter may be a reality in the future, and has further stated that there is significant support for it.

I do understand the main purpose of this site, I just think the rules need to be more clear and focused.

I absolutely understand the community, I don't see how I couldn't after being on the site as long as I have. This very thread has even offered valuable insight into the community and the moderators, insight I have taken in mind when I write my posts here.

I do understand how to act around other users. When I am insulted, I respond in kind. When I feel strongly about something, I speak out about it. In debate, I strive to be civil, to not misrepresent my opponents' words, and to provide solid comebacks to every counter point afforded by my fellow users (even if my fellow users have not always abided by these tenets).

Obamium-987 wrote:

I absolutely understand the community, I don't see how I couldn't after being on the site as long as I have.

How that sounds coming from someone who joined at the end of 2019:

I mean, welcome to the site and all, but it's odd to say you "understand" a community when you argue for radical changes to site norms and policies with mods and users who've been around substantially longer.

There's been subculture/character ("non-meme," to use your term) fan art since at least 2009, when this random Mario fan art was added:

And just to show how blurry your line between "meme" and "non-meme" content is, the Alternate Universe entry, also added in 2009, was the original home of the image before Mario got a separate entry. In fact, many of the oldest entries in the Alternate Universe gallery are, at their core, really just fan art. (It might even be worth cleaning up the gallery, since we now have separate galleries for things like Gijinka, not to mention the fact that many images (like this South Park art) have nothing "atlernate" about them except an art style distinct from the original.)

All that's to say that fan art has been a part of the site since before even anyone in this thread was on the site. And for those of us who remember the multi-year flood of My Little Pony fan art--a flood that so large that MLP:FiM is still (I believe) the biggest gallery on the website, and one of its most prolific MLP posters is still the number two all-time image poster on the website despite not posting any new images in a year--it's amusing to hear someone who joined the site seven months ago arguing for a ban on fan art while simultaneously claiming to "understand" the community.

That's like going on /b/ for a few months and then unironically arguing that you think they should ban shitposting. It'd be hilarious to watch, but it wouldn't get you anywhere.

Just because it's been here a while does not mean it should be here forever more. Also, read the act; it suggests implementing a filter to hide fanart, not just ban it. People in this thread have spent their time here building up the MEME act into some kind of monolithic ban, when in reality that is just one of the solutions suggested. I'm getting tired of debating Solution #1 when people act like that's the be-all and end-all of the act. The filter solution on the other hand has seen support in this very thread.

Listen, i have been talking with you a lot, and this is gonna be the last time. Ok here goes.

STOP IT, for real stop, i may have created an account recently, but i have seen this site for years, and its has gotten fanart after probably dont know 5 or 6 years i dont know when the fanart thing started but its been a long time. But for real stop, complain all you want, but it wont work, the fanart is still going strong, like i said before i totally understand that you dont want to see fanart, but the thing that you want is not to help the site, its just for your own sake, because, if this site does not allow fanart anymore, a huge amount of users will leave the site, so yeah, i mean you really need to understand that that thing would not change, i mean look what Jill just wrote on this forum and you keep going.

Also i assume that you are not a troll, so for the whole anime hate you have, we fucking get it, its ok if you dislike it (idk what are your other reasons to hate it), in general its ok to not like things and i totally respect your opinion if they are legit good, but being a dick about it, that is what people get tired of myself included.

And thats it, im just dont want to spend more time talking with you, i just hope that you change that because the consequences can be really bad specially considering your suspensions, if you dont do that, well see ya.

Listen, i have been talking with you a lot, and this is gonna be the last time. Ok here goes.

STOP IT, for real stop, i may have created an account recently, but i have seen this site for years, and its has gotten fanart after probably dont know 5 or 6 years i dont know when the fanart thing started but its been a long time.

i mean look what Jill just wrote on this forum and you keep going.

Right, there are several things wrong with this. For one, why should I "stop"? I am entitled to my opinions, and as Jill has said in this thread, expressing my opinions on the state of the site in a forum thread is perfectly acceptable.

I get it. Everyone has some issue with something that happens on the site. I personally avoid looking a the front page and anything that falls under editorials. Airing your grievances, and importantly, suggesting ways to address them is good. I will give you credit for that.

Jill has also said there is hope for an art/fanart filter being implemented in the future.

Ideally the [art/fanart filter] that admins, mods, and user have been clamoring to have for years, a more expanded and functional site feature, may eventually come into existence.

So using Jill's words against me like that won't work.

If you are tired of talking in this thread, then by all means you can stop. No one is forcing you to debate me or anyone else.

I won't address your points relating to the MEME act as 1. you have said you don't want to debate anymore and 2. I have already countered them in previous posts.

All that I ask of you is to respect my right to express my opinions and debate in peace, as I respect yours.

I'm going to make it clear since the previous posts apparently were not obvious enough.

expressing my opinions on the state of the site in a forum thread is perfectly acceptable.

To a point.

You have missed the point most of the responses here. I've tried to respond relatively nicely, but seeing as you repeatedly ignore both what I felt was implicit, and warping what was actually stated into a false narrative to suit your own ideas in the face of them being demonstrably scorned, I feel compelled to address a few things.

You gave two 'options' of dealing with this issue that you have with the site. Either outright banning it, or a filter for it.

Option One: Banning content

As explicitly stated previously, this is never going to happen. To ban it would be going against the stated purpose of the site. Admins do not want this, moderators don't want this and sure as hell don't want to enforce it, and as made clear both in the thread and the votes, users do not want this and do not want this enforced. You yourself have even stated that this would likely lead to large numbers of users leaving the site. In spite of this you still seem to cling to it as a possible option to address your problem.

Option Two: The filter

For some reason you have repeatedly interpreted 'filter out certain content for being visible so that people can choose what they want to see' as a 'fanart filter'.

Obamium incorrectly edited what I said as:

Ideally the [art/fanart filter] that admins, mods, and user have been clamoring to have for years, a more expanded and functional site feature, may eventually come into existence.

Obamium _wrongfully asserts

The filter solution on the other hand has seen support in this very thread

People want a general all purpose filter and have always wanted it. I do not know anyone other than you that specifically wants a permanent fanart filter. Having explicitly said: 'This goes far beyond what you are considering. Every time a new fandom springs in popularity, there are some that just don't wish to see it. And of course the ever present wish that politics and controversies were easier to ignore.' I do not understand how your read this as some sort of approval of anything in your post. You wanting to die on this hill of a 'fanart filter' in order to somehow salvage this idea isn't going to work. There is not going to be 'just a fanart filter'. No one in this thread wants this fanart filter. They want an all purpose individually personalized filter that will let them filter out every meme/fandom/politician/event that they want. Stop pretending that a fanart filter has seen support in this thread when it clearly hasn't.

Obamium interpreted what I said (while missing the actual message) as:

Jill has also said there is hope for an art/fanart filter being implemented in the future.

So, to attempt to summarise, it looks to me like the idea of an art/fanart filter has a chance at seeing the light of day

In addition to again, deliberately ignoring that I clearly stated that this would be a very broad scope filter, and said it would not be a 'fanart filter', I guess I didn't make this clear.

[site filtering] may eventually come into existence. But prospects of that happening soon are unfortunately unlikely. If this ever does come to pass, it will not be because of this thread.

I really hate to say this, but do not hold out 'hope' for this. When I suggest it will not be soon, I mean do not expect it for several years.

Yes, everyone wants this. But as stated in the thread earlier, the site already has a difficult time doing basic things. This is why we have the bizarre 8 second vote timer that I've never seen on another site. This is why it takes days to fix basic features like seeing comments. The admins know people want it. But if it hasn't happened in the previous decade then I hate to say it, I would not be surprised it it doesn't happen in the next decade either. I do want to be wrong, and I know everyone wants this to not be true either. But better to know what it likely to happen and be pleasantly surprised if you're wrong than to be given false hope and be constantly let down.

Finally, the killing blow to the 'filter option' in this thread. The topic's name is clearly about 'a content reform proposal.' This has been explained clearly why the 'content reform' that you suggest will not happen.

Tying to tack on the filter to, I'm sorry, at this point, it is no longer a content reform proposal, but a feature request. A feature request that you have already been explicitly told everyone wants (including the mods and admins) and the biggest hurdle is the site itself. Everyone is already well aware of users complaining about not having it. You are a 7 month old user appearing to display egotism that suggests that this feature people have wanted for nearly a decade was your idea.

Dishonorable Mentions

Obamium wrote

It doesn't seem too much of a stretch to say that a site whose (unofficial) rules say "post horny fanart, just don't show le nipples" will get more hardcore porn spam than a site that outright bans fanart.

The majority of the porn spam comes from one person that was banned around 8 years ago and isn't over it. This has less than nothing to do with fanart.

Obamium wrote

fanart spammers would be warned and punished for treating the site like a booru, and the spam would subside.

See above response and tell me how 'quickly' this spam would subside.

Obamium wrote

I've seen this "viral phenomena" line brandished like a shield to attempt to justify the non-memetic, esoteric, often bizarre fanart posted to this site. But like the second amendment of the United States Constitution, it couldn't predict the horrors of the future.

We document viral phenomena here Obamium. Comparing a site that documents internet culture being internet culture to mass shooting that have killed hundreds isn't getting your argument further.

Obamium wrote

And "hateful for the sake of being hateful"? Well, sometimes, you just dislike something. It's not necessarily something you can explain, but it's a part of your personality, and you should be allowed to express it.

Keep it relevant: Make sure that any addition or contribution you make to the site is relevant to the topic at hand. If you have nothing to say on a particular subject, skip the topic and move on.

• Behave: We want our site to be welcoming place for both old and new users. Please keep your comments and posts constructive and considerate in tone.

Statements like: 'God, the image gallery for [the crossover gallery] is a fucking cesspool.' and 'Fan art is the cancer that is destroying KnowYourMeme.' aren't meaningful contributions and are unnecessarily pugnacious. This is the kind of behavior that clearly highlights your lack of 'KYM cred'. There's literally nothing requiring you to comment on things you don't like.

There is nowhere for further productive conversation on this topic to go. You have already been told multiple times that your 'solutions' to your 'problems' are either never going to happen, or are so deeply nested within features people have always wanted that there is no point in continuing. You persist in posting in the thread and pretend it's ideas that have been universally panned as some great idea that you yourself came up with which you admit will probably drive users off the site is somehow something with user support.

You have asked for the community to respond. The response was an unequivocal 'no'. That's fine, not all ideas we have are great. You should listen to feedback instead of ignoring it and trying to twist it against what is clearly meant to somehow make it look like it is supporting you.

Do not create another thread on this topic.

Hey I'm gonna briefly unlock this to give a PSA about the whole filter situation.

After one of the mods had a mental breakdown and tried locking the Gamergate entry out of the trending bar a few days ago, Don told us that there are some site updates currently in the pipeline. They're planning to change how entries trend (gonna be based on views rather than comments) and there will also be some updates to the layout of the image galleries. While this doesn't necessarily mean filters, it does mean that the admins are taking another crack at updating KYM's ancient design. So there might be some substantial changes down the road with room for user input.

No sure when that'll be though. The coding part is, quote, "going to take forever." So maybe we're looking at a timeline of 1-2 years instead of a decade, if we're lucky.