Forums / Discussion / Meme Research

Are things that happen to everyone memes?

I know I usually think about contagious ideas as memes, but what about circumstantial things like dropping your phone on your face while texting in bed?

I've got a meme entry on this over here, but I wanted to know what everyone thinks about this kind of thing.

It's not a unique idea with a trail that can be easily found. Trying to track its spread and find its origin is impossible, and also kind of pointless. Give a smart phone to anyone with a comfortable bed and a weekend without plans and they might just discover this scenario for themselves.

So does it make sense to call it a meme?

Things that happen to everyone is called life, son.

And the guy who's main goal in life is to discourage meme research from happening gives a shit answer once again.

Reddit's DAE board is another example of content that goes viral because it's rooted in common experiences. So shouldn't there be a name for this as a certain kind of meme or a kind of effect?

I would neither call this an internet meme nor even a regular meme, and this is why:

Although this is something that may happen to a lot of people, it isn't an idea, it doesn't spread, it is just something that happens. We cannot count something like this as a meme unless you want to count trees or breathing as a meme, which if you wanted to get really meta you could argue for…

But nonetheless, be it meme or non meme in real life, we must ask ourselves if this is an internet meme, an idea or image spread on the internet, a web phenomenon. For, if it isn't, it isn't something to be put on this website.

I would really say that it isn't. It has very little web impact, besides a few rage comics and about 10 Facebook groups, only 3 of which have any amount over 1000 members.

All in all, although this may be a common occurrence, I don't think that alone is enough to show something's memetic properties, and thus I don't think something like this warrents an entry on the website.

You're overlooking the fact that the most popular Facebook page has over 800,000. And who said there are only 3? There are 32, I only listed a sample of 3 on the page.

This scenario, this concept, whatever you want to call it DOES spread. What it describes is a real life circumstance but the expression of that circumstance compels hundreds of thousands of people to upvote, like, share, and even try to copy it.

I think I've answered my own question. It's a meme.

I never said there were only 3, I said there were only 3 directly about this experience with likes significantly higher than 1000.

And really, with facebook groups, with only two having large numbers of likes, this doesn't seem amazingly large.

Also, I really think this has minimal spread online. I don't think this can really be considered an internet meme.

The size and amount of spread has nothing to do with whether or not something is a meme. Those are good factors to consider when examining how important a meme is, and when figuring out what's interesting about a meme.
But you're forgetting about all of the tiny bullshit youtube poop fads that are also memes.

I'm with you on the fact that the concept or act of dropping the phone is not the meme. But the materials about the idea are a meme in the sense that they are a widespread and diverse set of of materials expressing the same idea with many iterations.

I'm not trying to argue that it's timely, late-breaking, or even a huge deal. But it most certainly IS an internet meme.

Uh, this is the basis of all stand up comedy.

which is social commentary, which memetics is the study of.

Another example of this premise: Thatawkwardmoment.net

If, for you, you think it's a meme, why are you even asking us if we think it's a meme?
Abra answered you and you objected multiples times his arguments…

I'm puzzled about it. There have been many times I've been confronted to things that may be… "too wide a subject" to be considered a meme. However, with the new category system, there are things we didn't make entries for before than we can do now so… well…

Here's why I asked:

Why would people feel the need to re-do the exact same comic? On the surface, it looks like a meme. I don't see how it's a wide subject. It's a very specific premise.

The physical act of dropping the phone on your face wasn't born online, but comics and other materials based on that premise are in fact, memetic. They spread. They mutate. They compel people to share.

We already know that there are memes of all different sizes, so I'm asking, if you don't think this is a meme, then WHY?

I'm hoping that people will think long and hard about what a meme is and the dynamics of how they work and not just simply answer with "yes" or "no."

Memes tend to be something that people find amusement in, and can be manipulated to make new jokes. In those comics you posted there, excepting the first one, the phone dropping is just the vehicle for reaching rageface, etc., which is the meme. The actual subject, dropping the phone on the face, doesn't change or mutate between them, and isn't in and of itself, amusing. No matter how many pictures you see of this, that part isn't going to change. It's the reaction image, or at best, the format, that the amusement will be found in, thus making them the meme.

It's like seeing 3 annoying facebook girls, saying something like "every cat picture on internet: OMG CUTEST THING EVAR", and then thinking that the words "every cat picture on internet" is the meme.

Thats one of the points of ragecomics though, to create comics using those faces which tell stories of things that happen in everyday life. With the existence of that page already, we don't really need one for this.

That phone thing isn't a meme. That's a thing that happens. Like laughing out loud after everyone else finishes. It's just life. Not a meme.

Based on what you've said, shouldn't we also deadpool
The Great Toilet Paper Debate? That's just a thing that happens. People are confronted with two ways to hang their toilet paper, and people form preferences about it, then they debate it, and then for some reason they express it on the internet.
Then people empathize with those online expressions of the real-life phenomenon, and that online expression goes viral and spreads.
HOW IS THAT NOT A MEME?

That is a specific example though. That's like saying that all swedish pop songs should become a meme just because Caramelldansen is.

So we're not allowed to draw comparisons here? I'm not convinced.

Check this out: running upstairs after shutting off the lights out of fear of the dark.
It's another common experience that many people identify with, and people express it in other memes.

And again, there are lots of Facebook groups and hundreds of thousands of likes. There is lots of "virality" in terms of people sharing it.
200,000 likes
700,000 likes
And plenty more where that came from.

How is this very different from other common experiences like watching 300 and empathizing with other people who saw it by mindlessly shouting "THIS IS SPARTA1!!"?

People Do deadpool that. It's been up for 7 months now and isn't confirmed. Noone's commented on it in 4 months. It's not very prolific as a meme.

Your example wouldn't work, because it has no potential.

Panel 1 and/or 2 – I'm texting in bed.

Panel 3 – Phone falls on my head.

Panel 4 – Now my face is red (with anger)

How much of that can really be changed, before it's no longer related? It's not likely to catch on, because when you've seen one, you've seen them all. When you posted those 4 up above, the first one I related with, but the following 3 didn't elicit any kind of response, beyond wondering why they were made.

It's not a meme if people aren't doing anything original with it.

As for the idea that people making comics about common experiences is itself the meme, I would argue that people making comics about gaming is just as much a meme. Or people putting faces on a colored background, assigning a personality quirk, and then adding funny captions. Or photoshopping. These are things that people do to try and create something amusing, where the result could be part of a meme. The actions themselves aren't the meme.

That parrot image there, that could be a meme, if multiple pictures of that parrot are made with commonly shared experiences in the caption. But that's because the parrot itself would be a shared point between them. It wouldn't be the experience itself that is the meme, nor would it be a meme if every second image was a different face, or a different format. If everyone drew forever alone in a completely different way, he wouldn't be the forever alone guy, and wouldn't be a meme as a result.

Being amusing isn't an essential part of a meme, nor is how creative people get with their vision.

Also, those images are not meant to be viewed in succession. That is not their purpose. Each stands alone, and each has been shown to go viral on their own. The concept is contagious. People identify with it. Some even create new iterations of it. That's what makes a meme.

Memes occur naturally all the time, all around us, even without any conscious intent. It seems like you've been blinded by so many forced memes that you can't see this. I'm really kind of amazed by the arrogance too. Speaking as though you're the authority on memes and not just people with ideas about memes. Have any of you ever even read Dawkins?

I think it would be a huge mistake to assume that there's a general consensus on memes. And unfortunately it seems like the "we know everything there is to know about memes" attitude is going to get in the way of anyone putting forth any new ideas about memetics here. If not, prove me wrong.

Arrogance? You asked for opinions, and have gotten nothing but argumentative about each one presented that didn't agree with you. The only one acting like they're the authority on memes here is you.

Sure you say you think it'd be a huge mistake to assume that there's a general consensus on memes, but you're also acting like your idea of what a meme is, is the only valid one. Saying stuff like "Have any of you ever even read Dawkins?" as if his is the official word on the matter. Please to make up your mind. Either there's one true definition of what a meme is, and this whole thread questioning the potential of those images was pointless from the beginning, or there's no true definition, and everyone's opinion is worth considering.

I think the difference with this and what you proposing is that the Great Toilet Paper Debate has a lot more of a presence on the internet.

I'm not saying that yours doesn't have any presence on the internet, as you have shown that it does, I just don't think it really has enough of a presence.

Not enough presence for what? Not enough to consider it a meme? That's not how memes work.

@thatryanguy

" there’s no true definition, and everyone’s opinion is worth considering."

You've discovered the right answer.

I never had any question about that being the answer. I haven't been attacking other people for disagreeing with me.

I'll admit, I was snide with Taryn because he's always struck me as a jerk. But outside of that, I didn't attack anyone, I was only challenging people's notions of what makes a meme based on a complicated example of very viral internet phenomena that's based in real life.

At no point was anyone willing to consider that real life influences what we do online. What we make and share online is often based on real life experiences. The fact that so many people, even entry moderators, were so stuck in their ways makes me concerned. So many people with strong opinions, and so few willing to consider new possibilities.

I've considered that real life events have an effect on the internet.

This certainly has an effect on the internet.

But, it is a minor meme, at most. Very little spread, very little impact.

Thank you. It is a very minor meme, just like many of the hundreds of minor memes in the database. I'm glad we've reached an agreement, and I look forward to more debates.

Alright, that I can work with. It seems to me that the main problem here is simply a manner of semantics. It's true that by it's broadest and original definition in the english language, the word meme fits in with your idea. An Internet Meme, however, is much more narrow in what it refers to, generally being an idea or concept that is propagated within the internet itself.

Internet memes are typically something that hasn't been seen before, that catches people's attention due to how much of an emotional response they get from it (awwing at lolcats, laughing at rage comics, screaming at Friday). It might not even be something they themselves get an emotional reaction from, but they see others reacting, and decide to copy whatever elicited said response, with their own twist. Then it propagates from there. It's basically a matter of monkey see, monkey do, with a bit of telephone thrown in.

The term internet meme was originally used for these kinds of things, but, due to many people not being aware of the word meme outside of them, the term got shortened, and meme itself took on a new meaning, because that's how slanguage works.

KYM has always been specifically about internet memes, but came about when the term "meme" was already referring to the internet variety as it's main usage. That the site became popular only helped to solidify that.

Dropping the phone on one's face isn't a concept that people will want to emulate, nor will they be likely to see a comic about it, and then want to emulate that. As you said on the page, mutations wouldn't really add any value to the original concept. Sure, people will agree with the concept, but they wouldn't be likely to take the comic and post it elsewhere. The idea itself isn't one that's likely to spread virally, and as such, isn't really worthy of being call an internet meme.

Leastways that's my opinion on the matter.

Internet memes are typically something that hasn’t been seen before, that catches people’s attention due to how much of an emotional response they get from it

If that's true, then I'm happy to learn this. Who decided this though?

Society? It's not something anyone decided upon, it's just something that's a common factor. If it didn't catch people's attention, or illicit any emotional response, it wouldn't be copied, and wouldn't spread.

But this does catch people's attention, specifically because they relate to it, not because it's never been seen. People see it and go, "oh yeah! Me too! I thought I was the only one!" then they click the "Like" button and it is spread even further.

Well, yeah, they agree with it, and they relate to it. They probably don't subsequently go to their friends, or onto other forums and say "Hey! I drop the phone on my face!", resulting in their friends or other forum goers then going elsewhere and doing the same.

As for facebook's like button being an indicator of whether or not something's a meme, that would only be the case if everything that everyone likes counted as a meme It's a method of publicly agreeing with something, or stating that you enjoy it, but it doesn't really spread from there. People don't go out of their way to share it.

I just saw my friend Liking something on Facebook and because it was something I also enjoy, I clicked the Like button, and then another of my friends did.
That's how the Like button contributes to spread.

You don't have to go out of your way to share it. There are entire businesses built upon making sharing of content so easy that people barely know they're doing it. (ex: Facebook, Twitter, StumbeUpon)

Fair enough. If that's all there is to it though, then we need to make pages for Coca cola, granola bars, sesame street, the color green, toenail clipping, music, bowel movements, belching, breathing, etc. I can almost guarantee that you'll find groups and like buttons on Facebook for each of those topics and more.

What you won't likely find is related content being created and shared outside of the groups. And that's one of the major differences.

But I have found content being created outside of those groups. On reddit, on 4chan, on yahoo answers, and more.
Granted, the act of sharing is separate from the act of creating, and this is a meme where people almost never are driven to search.
But I'm disturbed by how you think something as specific as "texting in bed and dropping my phone on my face" is as broad as the color green. You're not being fair at this point, simply argumentative.

It seems you're misunderstanding my point then. I'm not saying that the two are related in scope, but in structure, insofar as how simply liking them on facebook, and having your friends see that you like them, and like them too, does not alone make them an internet meme.

Bra status, and Facebook Cartoon Profile Picture Week, were both limited to people on Facebook simply changing their avatars and posting status updates. They're both still in Submissions, so does that mean that they're not confirmed because we still don't know if those should be considered memes?

Because if that's the case, I bet we could find a lot of other sources in other places that refer to them as memes.
The Wall Street Journal and Newsweek both called the Facebook Bra Status a meme. Granted, they did so citing Know Your Meme regardless of the fact that it's still unconfirmed.

Why do you even post a thread asking a question if you're just going to say "no ur wrong" to everyone?
The Bra Status and Facebook Cartoon Profile Picture Week were not confirmed at the time they first were spotted, and then once they faded into obscurity without reaching meme status no-one bothered to deadpool them.

Is tons of people changing their avatars and posting themed status updates in a campaign to build awareness for things like breast cancer and child abuse really comparable to clicking a like button, to agree that they've dropped a phone on their face? I wouldn't personally agree that it is.

But then, I wouldn't have agreed to the bra status and cartoon profile picture week as being memes in the first place. In both of those, someone had a good idea, started asking people to spread it around, and telling them how to participate. At best they were events. Memes tend to happen more naturally than that, IMO.

Either way, I think for now we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, cause I don't feel like I'm doing a sufficient job of explaining my point of view to you on this one, and don't have the energy at the moment to figure out what I'd need to do or say to accomplish that. We'll have to just see how things go with the article, and let confirms/deadpools of the masses do the talking.

Garlic McNabb is trying to make himself look special to compensate for his excessive n00byp4n75n355.

What you are talking about is mostly just flash in the pan trends.

@MDFification, I'm not just saying people are wrong, I'm finding examples of other memes (or meme entries anyway) that fit other people's arguments for "not a meme" and asking if those should also be deadpooled then.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to challenge your point of view in case there's uncovered ground that hasn't quite been explored.

I mean, if The Wall Street Journal is going to call something a meme, that's enough for Wikipedia to call it a meme. Why not here?

@thatryanguy, I think they're alike because they're limited to hundreds of thousands of people participating mostly on Facebook. But we can agree to disagree for now.

@Katie,
I agree that these are little flash-in-the-pan microtrends. But I think Chris was wrong about microtrends not being memes. They're tiny little memes that make much less impact on the web, but they're still memes. I think Chris is a smart dude, but I'm going to side with Susan Blackmore's assertion that there are memes of all sizes. (it's a 20 minute video.)

Y'know, they actually have to catch on to be memes. Microtrends don't cut it.

The only reason you think Chris is smart is because he is somewhat agreeing with you. This entire debate of whether it is a meme or not can't work because you say "nope, it's a meme lol".

So with this of saying dropping your phone on your face is a meme you could also say

"My cat just walked over my keyboard and typed" is a meme.
"I accidentally closed my browser instead of minimizing it" is a meme.
"My mom just found my porn folder on my computer" is a meme.

Memes don't always have to relate to people. And memes have to be amusing in a way. They are things that are spread across the internet. ALL OF THE INTERNET. Just because it is on Facebook, does not make it a meme. If 4chan, KYM, memebase, and like 12 other websites start having it spread across the internet, then I would speak differently of the situation. But it's not. It's 100% IRL, no spread, no meme.

And next time when you think something is a meme, don't ask Entry moderators what they think, and submit it even though they disagree with you. Let it spread, and then submit. Don't ask their opinions and do your own thing without considering them.

"Memes don’t always have to relate to people"

I didn't say they did. But do you think it's possible that sometimes they can?

"Memes DO NOT have to be amusing in a way. It's nice when they are but there's nothing about the idea of memetics that says humor is required."

"They are things that are spread across the internet. ALL OF THE INTERNET. "

Actually, very few memes have ever spread across all of the internet. The internet is much larger than you seem to be aware.

" If 4chan, KYM, memebase, and like 12 other websites start having it spread across the internet, then I would speak differently of the situation. But it’s not. It’s 100% IRL, no spread, no meme."

Start having it spread? Do you mean like intentionally forcing? That makes it sound like you're saying only forced memes are memes.
I've provided hundreds of examples from
Boredom.net
MakeUseOf
9gag
imgfave
PlanoBeta
Youtube
Facebook
StumbleUpon
Reddit
YahooAnswers
Twitter
So 11 different sites across the web isn't good enough, but somehow it would be enough if it was also on Memebase and 4chan? Seriously? I could just go post it myself and meet your criteria but that seems kind of redundant.

It's like you purposefully avoid the main facts someone is trying to point out, and go around it to make the other person look wrong. And of course a meme has to spread. If it didn't spread know one would no about it and it would not be a meme. FORCING a meme is like going on here, submitting a meme and saying, "this was funny" or "i made this" with nothing else. Stop making people look like idiots so that you don't seem wrong. My god.

Well you put eleven sites and kalmo said "4chan, KYM, memebase, and like 12 other websites" I think you need three more LOL.

that's you being shot down like a blackbird

Dude, this isn't a contagious idea that spreads from person to person. You're fucking annoying, and this is not a meme.

To add on all of this, we actually had a pretty thorough discussion at the time Chris Menning and some other staff members were still here about "Flash-in-the-pan" phenomena. If I remember right, the general consensus was that, if a Flash In The Pan trend was big enough to be widely reposted and discussed on Internet until it dies out, then it was important enough to have an article here, like the Bra Status Update thingy.

One more thing, while there maybe isn't any strict rule about Internet memes, it has to spread from person to person. That's why "That's what she said" got confirmed, even though it was a big pre-internet pop-culture reference.

Last but not least, the "awkward moment.net" link is about everything that could become an awkward moment, not just phones and beds. Is there a phonedroppingwhiletextingonbed.com website yet?

tl;dr Pat Sajak is the man.