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Ok, when did it become a rule to post "on topic" stuff in jff?

ok. I've been here almost 2 years and the most of my enjoyment was from the obscure minimal threads in jff. I think that our "true" personalities come out and we have the sense of letting loose.

don't get me wrong, I love the site. Big fan. But from the influx of moderation, it seems like we can't have a good time. Yes, yes. Topic is everything. But in an environment like jff we cut loose. So please stop locking our threads unless we are hateful/racist/advertising.

don't upvote if you agree, just post your thoughts. unless this is locked

Saying we're not allowed to make silly threads in the JFF is like saying we're not allowed to talk about anything but meme research in the IRC: #knowyourmeme

FIGHT THE POWER

you're right about one thing alex…

we need to

GET LOOSE!

edit: it's only cool to make/participate in these threads when it's people like alex or moargun, they're witty, funny, random, and not 12 year olds

Moving to Site-Related (Not to screw with you, but because this is a site-related topic.)

I'm responding to a PM right now on the matter, so I'll respond here in a bit.

I was under the impression that we didn't have threads like this because people used the IRC for this sort of thing.

I don't hate the idea though.

I completely agree because I've noticed the same thing with this site. The transition has made me wish I hadn't joined after Jamie left.

Remember when… Essentially, it would be this on a daily basis and larger scale. I don't really see the fun in that.

All right, let's get to it, hm?

@Alex

Ok, when did it become a rule to post “on topic” stuff in jff?

About 9 months ago.

Your capitalization and stuff is odd and inconsistent in your recent posts as compared to the past (you are still Alex Ghost, right?) Is everything OK? You seem different as of late.
 
Anywho:

Keep it relevant. If you have nothing to say on a particular subject, you can skip the topic (this is referring to the fact that threads need a topic) and move on.

Mind you, this isn't from some power-hungry moderator who wants the forum to be "just so." (From this thread, anyone can tell you I'd lock a lot more threads if I just went with what I thought.) This is from amanda b, who has disagreed with me for being too heavy-handed in the past.

I think I've improved since then, but I still moderate based on how I perceive the rules and discussions I have about how I correctly and incorrectly perceive the rules.

ok. I’ve been here almost 2 years and the most of my enjoyment was from the obscure minimal threads in jff. I think that our “true” personalities come out and we have the sense of letting loose.

I don't disagree that enjoyment can come from simple threads,. The fact that I've defended threads with no topic and just have a focus (since that…other thread…ugh) means that I don't think they should be locked.

But I do believe each thread should have a topic or at least a focus. If you can't have fun with a thread with a topic as simple as an emote, then I think your issues lie in a place other than with KYM's moderation.

@Moargun

Saying we’re not allowed to make silly threads in the JFF is like saying we’re not allowed to talk about anything but meme research in the IRC: #knowyourmeme

Oh, there are silly threads all over JFF. I'd argue that most of them are silly.

But I think what you're talking about with the IRC is about following rules. #knowyourmeme is for meme research, and #OMGKYM is for random chatter. Currently, #knowyourmeme is for random chatter, and #OMGKYM is barely used.

Essentially, those rules in the IRC have changed, despite not being listed as being different.

The ones for the forum haven't changed. In fact, they've been updated and upheld.

And again, I don't think JFF isn't less silly. It's just less random "(and it's still pretty random.)":

Now to be moderate, I recognize that the fact that moderation has been enforcing these rules for about a year/a little over a year is different from what KYM was, but just because things changed doesn't mean it changed for the worst.

I do recognize that older users don't like it (and apparently newer users like Quantum Meme.) Some have even left with the forum being part of the reason behind it. Some have even left the forum in particular without leaving the site (i.e., the IRC.)

But I still see new users here, and I see more new members coming into the forum than the same users we've always had. Some stay, and some go.
 
I'm a little hurt that users can't have fun here, and that's the main reason why I'm listening.

• But as the rules are, I don't moderate that way. I don't moderate based on whether or not the users are having fun. That's not what I do. That's up to the users to do within the rules. It would require a conscious effort on my part to prevent users from having fun. (Edited for bad English)
• I don't moderate outside of the rules, because it invites too much of my personal opinion and not my personal judgement. My opinion and my neutral judgement are two different things.
• Without the rules, you end up with a lot of redundant threads, a lot of flamewars, and a lot less room for expected moderation whenever a rule is broken.

As I see things, I would rather sadly see users who dislike the forum leave than to open up more of what the forum was a few years ago.

@verbose
You are an excellent mod. i just am trying to sway the community to be more silly or make random stuff, because what a locked thread in jff could prevent a funny retort or image. I love the mindset of our forum base. In any other niche, please be heavy on the the moderation, but jff is too classy to be locked up. I want this thing to succed as well as all the staff. Just don't sell out and stay true to the kym we all came to love.

Alex-

Where have all the blubz have gone.

Mr blubz, my idol. Please respond.

"ITT: we converse with each other like we would on IRC"
>locked

excuse me? are you sure this couldn't have worked as a proper thread in JFF for everyone to participate in?

Verbose explained the JFF case, so I'll go to another issue I'd like to point out:
Unrelated or dumb posts in Site Related and Meme Research.

So it has been made clear already that we have site rules and as mods we are obliged to follow these rules to a certain extend and act upon them. Now there are sections where we can cut them a bit loose. JFF is for craziness, so there's no need for us to be strict there. The IRC explains itself.

But in Meme Research and Site Related, the least we ask for is to make your post at least a bit serious and topic-related, as that's what those sections are for. Thanks Obama quickly turned to image dumps and random comments on woodblocks, and Jack Candle made certain to put up a random comment when a user asked help. Even in this thread some of you managed to make a dumb post.

When the topic is a site issue or a meme to research, a dumb joke which is "so le funnies xD (gimme karma)" is completely off topic, even if the joke itself is somewhat related to the topic. So how do you people want us to reply to that? We can give you more freedom in JFF, can we expect some more serious business in those sections in return? Regardless of what anyone answers, I have reason in all those cases to warn & ban. Want me to?

Sorry, Kim. Making a thread with a focus or any kind of discussion value is fine, but if the topic is to 'Talk like you would in the IRC' then the moderators are going to assume that it is a redundant thread, rather than going for the 'Just For Fun' nature, and this is what bugs me about JFF silly threads getting locked nowadays.

Unless I'm completely wrong. Then whoever proves me wrong will spark a great revelation.

Basically, when OP has made a topic, it's considered best to stick to that topic. JFF does not mean license to derail.
Also, topics with no discussion value aren't acceptable.
That is all.

Silly MDF, you don't need a license to derail. Going off the rails (on a crazy train *dernernernerner*) is an act of FREEDOM! And freedom is the right of all sentient beings.

Interestingly enough. I was going to derail this thread with peanut butter, but I found a fun error in this thread. Ok, so I was going to quote OP, but upon hitting the quote button I received a 404. Apparently even though this thread was moved, the hyperlink was not changed. The quote button for OP still links to the Just For Fun version of the thread.
(https://knowyourmeme.com/forums/just-for-fun/topics/19602-no-need-to-discuss/posts/new?quoted_post=467980)

…now to post some Just For Fun peanut butter…

Wow, so by locking certain jff threads is an ultimate debt to society. Fuck, admit it is foolish and let us have our dumb simple threads. Go moderate the site or something. I think most of our users will agree.

>Go moderate the site or something.

That's what we're doing here. You seem to believe JFF is a priveleged section. Hint: It's not.

I do recognize that older users don’t like it (and apparently newer users like Quantum Meme.) Some have even left with the forum being part of the reason behind it. Some have even left the forum in particular without leaving the site (i.e., the IRC.)

I just wanted to point out real quick here, that while some of the IRC users (namely Stoffe) left the forums or at least became more scarce, not because of the stricter rules, but more the fact that
1. Actual discussions get derailed by reaction images, short retorts, and completely unrelated and generally stupid remarks.
2. Many threads in the Just For Fun subforum have become endlessly regurgitated material from past times, or completely unfunny and/or non-inventive original content. (as stated by other users, this is more a problem that lies within the userbase itself, not the moderators)
3. In the forums we have gathered a wave of more sensitive and rather touchy users, who tend to get more riled up or offended by insults and light jabs, this made many users of the past who were still enjoying the more rough and tough brotherly love style communication that the older forum cultivated emigrate to the free(er) environment of the IRC.

>topics with no discussion value aren’t acceptable.

Guess we'd better delete the NatRP, adventure threads, Funny Picture thread, Shipping Thread, and TICNFS thread.

Discussion value of NatRP/Adventure: Advancing the games.
Discussion value of Funny Picture thread: Adding pictures.
Discussion value of Shipping thread: Shooping your new KYM ship.
Discussion value of TICNFS: Continuing the combo.

Those all have a topic that actually is acceptable, and trying to say that a game thread has no discussion value is kind of silly anyways, as they aren't designed the same as a discussion thread, yet are still OK.

The difference here is that he's talking about threads that really can't advance past the first post – things like making a thread to thank a user overdramatically or to say "I'M LEAVING/BACK GIVE ME KRAMA". Adventure threads can. Image dump threads can. The shipping thread can. TICNFS – well, it's really standing on its heritage. If it was started today, it'd probably get locked after the derail.

I'll be brief. No one's really reading or responding to my points.

I just responded to a thread who's OP was "I'd like to buy some cheese."

If you think the forum got strict and we don't allow for sillliness, then I think you have issues outside of KYM's moderation. I locked a thread with no topic at all. OP said so.

I honestly tried my best to read this, I would like to offer a respectful and well thought out retort, however this is the kind of unfunny garbage that I feel is really causing a problem. This thread is in Site-Related, and even if it was in Just For Fun, I don't think this post would be acceptable under nearly any conditions. I understand that you feel like your sanctuary is being tread upon, but please understand that your ideals are not the entirety of the userbase's shared thoughts. Thanks for trying is what I would like to say, but currently I don't think you are actually putting an effort into meeting a conclusion to this discussion.

Dude… Get some sleep or something. You're just rambling and making even less sense. You're practically asking for the ironic lock.

Playing a game isn't a discussion, posting pictures isn't a discussion, and Photoshopping isn't a discussion. I'm lampooning MDF's lack of concise wording in his brevity.

Shit, I didn't realize we had this thread. I've already posted my opinion in the JFF thread. Dammit.

I guess I'll just say that I don't think it'd be bad to let the users be silly at times. The problem comes in self-moderation. I'd go on to say the problem lies with the users. We can have our fun and enjoy our silliness, but at what point does it go too far? If users decide that any amount of pointlessness is allowed, they'll run free with the idea. Then we'll have pure, undiluted, greatly unwanted chaos. So, rather than let things get out of hand, mods have taken to preventative measures.

Why? Counter question: Why the hell not? Personally, I find it hilarious.

Then we’ll have pure, undiluted, greatly unwanted chaos.

That's the whole reason it should be moderated. Some people still actually want to be able to discuss things in JFF. If threads have topics, people can actually follow along and contribute. Some people want JFF to be left alone, obviously. They want to do whatever they want. People like that will definitely have fun shitposting in every thread made by people like them. I think it's fine that all of it is contained to one thread now, but I don't see the point of having a new thread every day just for shitposting.

/rant
JUST EASE UP A BIT. LET US CREATE THREADS FOR FUN WITHOUT HAVING TO WORRY IF IT'S GOING TO BE LOCKED OR NOT, LET US BE SILLY AND POST PICTURES WITHOUT A DISCUSSION ATTACHED TO THEM, LET US BE WHO WE ARE AND DON'T STIFLE OUR CREATIVITY WITH YOUR OPPRESSIVE MOD POWERS.
YOU DON'T NEED TO LOCK EVERY THREAD THAT YOU DON'T THINK ANYONE WILL BE INTERESTED IN. BECAUSE SOME OF US ARE. WE WANT TO BE POINTLESS AND RANDOM. WE ARE THE COMMUNITY, AND HOW WE FEEL MATTERS TOO.
NO NOT EVERYONE LIKES RANDOM SHIT THREADS, BUT OBVIOUSLY OTHER PEOPLE DO, AND WE DESERVE TO ENJOY THE FORUMS JUST AS MUCH AS ANYONE ELSE.

It's like it doesn't even matter how we feel or what we want because you guys are SO stuck on something that happened a year ago.

If this thread can't discuss this in a calm manner, then we shouldn't have it. This is a serious issue, and I'd like everyone to be able to state their point of view.
I personally don't lock pointless threads. I lock stupid threads. I lock threads that don't go anywhere and detract from other, better threads.
It's a question of moderator digression. If you have an issue with this, don't get mad. It's a well known fact that all us forum mods are nazis.
Heil Chris!

@Moargun

As long as you're following the site rules, we're not stopping anything. If you want completely random, then what's wrong with the IRC?

And I'm genuinely hurt that you think that I don't care what users think. I've got a inbox filled with probably days of writing I've sent to users trying to explain what I do, why I do it, and hearing feedback. The fact that I've done so much changing myself at the request of users when they can objectively support their case only makes the hurt worse.

I've considered giving up the powers in the past 24 hours because I can't moderate on subjectivity (e.g., easing up "a bit," from "time to time,") without putting my opinion into it. That could be a personal problem of mine, but I honestly don't know how to do it. However, I assume that not most users think we're oppressive.

Users feel free to chime in. I'm not one to be rash, but if you really think I aid in making an "oppressive" atmosphere in the forums, then I'll gladly step down. If you really can't have fun and be creative with the rules established, then I don't want to stop you.
 
Don't backpedal, Moargun. Your comments count as one vote, even if you realize that you want to temper your rant in hindsight. I think you'd rather not have moderation than have this stifling presence above your head.

And that's fine. Because, despite your opinion, I care about what users think. RM can tell you I don't trust moderation as much as other people do, but I guess that doesn't come across very clearly. : /

Don't take it that way, I wasn't trying to hurt anyone's feelings. I'm sorry
I know you work hard, I really do. I can tell by the amount of time and effort you put into those messages you sent me AND the forum posts you make.
I just wanted to get how I felt out there I guess. I really do understand how things need to run, but I'm just not happy with it, I guess. Sorry againnn
Don't step down from being a mod! I think you're one of the best. (You obviously care a lot, okay)

Guhhhh, sorry

we also should mention the bias mods has towards certain users

for example: all those threads that alex made? if those were made by me instead, they probably would've been locked so much faster

You may notice that your username is currently "the Niggest".

Basically, yes, mods are biased against certain users. The reason? We find those users consistently violate the rules, or at least push the envelope. It means we watch them more, are quicker to come to conclusions when they do something questionable, and so on.
It doesn't really have to be justified or discussed. It's just what people do.

Its working

@moargun

I really wouldn't have an issue with pointless threads if the users could prove they were capable of self moderation. But until that's the case, this may have to be the way things are.

@Kim Jong

Law enforcement is more likely to hammer down on repeat offenders than first time criminals.

if the users could prove they were capable of self moderation

To me, this is the very core of the entire issue this forum is being faced with. In the "old days" that seem to be a popular theme to many of the posts that complain about increased/stricter moderation, moderation was lesser due to the fact that there were less users, and that the vast majority of these few users had proven in time they could moderate themselves. Even then of course a few users couldn't, but with so few members, mods could more easily tend to every user's personal thoughts.
What I'm trying to point at here is best illustrated when a small town is used as a metaphorical replacement. Say there is a small town, well with around 30-40 people living there, the amount of law enforcers may be close to 1 or 2. They would likely know everyone on a moderately personal level, and when a problem arose, one of the enforcers could take their day helping settle the conflict, likely with lesser consequences/punishments because the enforcer could keep working until they got the offender(s) entire stories straight. However suddenly the population booms to several thousand and the little town becomes a decent city. Well suddenly with crimes occurring constantly, and with too many people to know each on a personal basis, the law enforcers have to hire more workers and suddenly they realize they can't spend a whole day working on one small conflict. Suddenly there aren't too many varieties of punishments or rules that cater to each individual, there is a set-in-stone rule set with exact consequences for their respective offenders. This is basically what has become of KYM, we are no longer a small town with a personable set of sheriffs, we are a bustling hub with too many people moving in and out. Our moderators are no longer able to keep track of everyone's specific likes/dislikes, and things have gotten less familial.
While it is understandable that many of you may dislike these things, large communities must sacrifice some of the goodies that small ones can hold. It is just something we have to all get used to.
And for those who will undoubtedly skip this post due to its length:
tl;dr: KYM is too big to cater to every individual, and can no longer deal with rules being treated like guidelines, and even if those who are not very responsible are a minority, they are a sizable one.

Well, I contacted administration on the matter.

Apparently, I was more wrong that right. And I sincerely apologize for that. I'll send out personal apologies to Moargun and Alex in a bit.

I honestly have little idea how to moderate JFF in this instance then, even with suggestions I got from other moderators. I just won't participate until I get a grasp of what is fine and what isn't. Feel free to post in whatever way on JFF. As long as it isn't flamey, I'm not going to get involved.

In any case, I don't mean to have a "no fun allowed" sort of atmosphere on JFF, but I also meant to prevent pure chaos and an atmosphere that implied that anything was allowed. Unfortunately, it seems like I didn't have the balance right.

Again, I am sorry.

@Verbose

Well, obviously graphic NSFW stuff isn't allowed. And obvious flamebaiting. And vulgar offensiveness. But general silliness? Seems no reason not to have it.

@which ever mod edited my previous post ^^

So you have edited my post to seem as though I slandered myself. And you persist in childish antics of a nature ill-becoming one in a position of authority over the content of this sight. Still… the image of a firecracker up the bum while wearing a tutu gave me a bit of a chuckle, I'll give you that much.

Mod edit: Just having a little fun, bro. Isn't the point of these threads to get the moderators to relax a bit?