Forums / Maintenance / Report Problems

To prevent the comments getting locked as well, I started this thread as a discussion place for the recent cringeworthy issue, i.e. the thread getting locked. Please post here appropriately.

Well, being as not much has been said, I'll just monitor this site until something comes up.

Well, let me try to get a discussion going. Discuss your opinion on how you feel about the cringeworthy thread being locked and if it's at all possible to redeem the cringeworthy name on this site.

The gallery was The Roman Empire.
The thread was The Byzantine Empire.

I feel like the situation was… mishandled, quite frankly. While there was a clear violation of the rules going on, this was clearly an act of a fringe minority of posters that should have been punished individually instead of blaming the entire thread and locking it for good. A temporary lock could have worked to this effect, because the violation that those users carried out was one related to the site (i.e. the one against raiding), not the individual thread.

While the same argument could be made in regards to the Cringeworthy Image Gallery, there was ongoing abuse aside from the TheNewAlfMonster and Ballooncules shenanigans – people were deliberately misusing the page to complain about things they didn't like or to post gore. The thread, on the other hand, was generally policed by its own users, and was subsequently in better control that the chaotic clusterfuck that the Image Gallery ended up becoming.

If I could choose two things to get out of my hair on this website forever, it would be the Goat and Cringeworthy. The Goat hasn't been too awful and is kinda gone now that it's locked, but it's a shame Cringeworthy has been such a struggle for nearly 6 months now.

Kung Fu Cthulhu wrote:

this was clearly an act of a fringe minority of posters that should have been punished individually instead of blaming the entire thread and locking it for good.

In regards to the gallery, this went on behind the scenes for a long time, in such a way that most users probably wouldn't notice – warnings via PM, suspensions, even a permaban or two IIRC. It didn't work, and constant moderation and control over the gallery, and then the thread after that, is incredibly tiring.

The thread has no excuse, though; they were warned there would be a lock if harassment happened/continued. If they didn't want a lock to happen the users in question should have avoided it in the first place, and their punishment happened to fall on everyone else in that thread as well. The point here is that it wasn't a warning to individuals – it was a warning to the group with consequences for the group.

Evilthing wrote:

I have noticed that now we are at the point which is equivalent to riot police threshold problem (where the presence of riot police causes more damage than its absence).

Buddy if you're going to compare a thread and a historically unstable topic here to a police state you really need to reevaluate your priorities

I'm going to be frank right now, I would love to just lock down Cringeworthy entirely. The reason I haven't done that, however, is that I want to be fair to the users, and just locking on the basis of "something bad probably will happen" isn't fair. And then the mods are being accused of being dictators all because we want to keep things in line. Really it's just stressful. The reason I enforced those rules, and why I'm enforcing them so strictly, is solely because I don't it divulge into another cyberbullying and fetish spamming mess, meaning we have to lock it again. This is the third chance we're giving you really, and I will lock the comments if I feel our trust has been betrayed again.

>Redeem the cringeworthy name.

I don't think that's really possible anymore. We have an image gallery that went too far, got locked; a thread that went too far, got locked; and now we're at the comment section, which is at risk of getting locked. And still people are desperate to post their cringe on this website.

It's quite an admirable feat when you think about it. One word being an issue for so long already and still people believe it's perfectly fine to continue.

But to get to the point, I'm sharing the opinion of most mods here.

We hoped the Cringeworthy community can proof themselves, we hoped that with the right aim they can stay in line, we trusted they'll be able to learn from their own mistakes and fix the issues themselves.

Each time we were wrong, and it has become quite tiring to place trust in a place that shoots you in the back the moment you're not looking. It has resulted in two locks already with a possible third one on its way, and various suspendsions. Can you really trust an issue will fix itself when it already reached that state? I can't.

But ok, let's stay open to solutions, because it seems that's what people want.

For starters, you're not getting the image gallery back. The issue there was too big to fix, you all ruined that one. Give up.

But an issue with the Cringeworthy gallery was that people also never looked at other galleries. The Cringeworthy gallery just functioned as an umbrella gallery to cover a lot of topics, which was a part of the subjectiveness issue because what defines 'cringeworthy' is different to everyone. For fails, we have the FAIL entry; for bad Sonic OCs, there's the Sonic OC entry.

I'm sure you guys can think of other galleries to post some stuff in. Be aware though that it still needs to be related to the topic the entry covers. For example, the Original Character Do Not Steal covers the phrase, and therefore the image gallery is to upload instances related to the phrase and isn't a place to upload bad OCs and recolors.

Then let's move on to the thread. Can we reopen that one? We might, but not now. Currently discussion is going on and the issues are still fresh, it's not the right moment to consider an unlock.

Be the change you want to see. If you can proof the thread can be used correctly, and that the posters are willing and able to keep each other in line, while reporting the rotten apples, we can maybe be convinced that a temporary lock is enough of a punishment. Work together and steer each other in the right direction, this thread is a good place for that.

Should we decide to give the thread a last chance though, and you manage to ruin that again as a group, then there will be no mercy. The thread will get permalocked and users will get suspended without warning. This issue has dragged on for too long, and it can be said that the warnings have already been handed out multiple times.

I would like to make a suggestion that if the thread were to be reopened that the thread should be a limited post access type thread. Meaning that posting is only given to certain users who apply and recieve permission from one or more of the mods who are seen as trustworthy by the mods. if the users who have a privilege to post violate the rules, they can have their thread posting privileges revoked either permanently or whatever the mods seem to be fair. I dont know what the forum capacities are for having special post access threads but i dont think the thread will remain open (if it reopens) if we dont have a way of regulating posting access to only trusted members.

What I was trying to say that how the situation was handled caused more problems that if we had left this unattended. This is far from the only example of this from the Internet.

In my opinion, this would have been handled much better if those who posted correct things there were rewarded somehow.

I also think that those who wanted this gallery to be locked were vocal minority.

I really don't like this; the fact that we have to even consider solutions like this shows how problematic this has been. It's time to get rid of it.

I don't really like the idea of rewarding people for doing exactly what they should be doing. And besides, do you honestly think the situation would be better if we didn't enforce the rules? Then there would be more people trying to pull this kinda stuff, because they know they can get away with it. And it's not like we locked the gallery because the outcry was that it needed to be, one look at the people telling us that we're trying to enforce some kind of draconian regime will tell you otherwise. We locked the gallery because we thought it was the best course of action.

An idea like that can only be enforced manually, because it's not present in the coding. We would have to personally disallow users from posting in the thread under the threat that they're getting banned should they post.

And it's really not a solution the way you're suggesting it. Not allowing users to post in there until they have permission would kill the entire purpose of a public forum.

And what Twilitlord said, the fact that we even have to consider makeing a single thread a police state, something the rest of the forum can do decently without, shows that this problem has escalated to a point beyond fixing.

Evilthing wrote:

What I was trying to say that how the situation was handled caused more problems that if we had left this unattended. This is far from the only example of this from the Internet.

In my opinion, this would have been handled much better if those who posted correct things there were rewarded somehow.

I also think that those who wanted this gallery to be locked were vocal minority.

So you're telling me here that if we completely ignored the Cringeworthy gallery/thread, that all the issues that were going on in there would've just magically disappeared like they were nothing? And that people magically know that they're doing something wrong when there's nothing to tell them they're doing it wrong? Yeah buddy, making perfect sense there. Those problems came into existance also partly because we left those areas unattended for too long, and didn't step in until it was already too late.

And rewarding users because they don't fuck up, but act like they should? I'm sorry, but that's just stupid. You are telling me here that users will only manage to use the Cringeworthy gallery/thread correctly once there is a reward to be gained for it, and that they'll be physically incapable of doing so if there is nothing to gain.

Your post is really only a reason for me to keep them locked, because you're only telling me that those areas will be bound to fall out of line again when they're not monitorized.

The shutting down of the Cringeworthy image gallery is hands down a good thing and should never be reversed (because, as mentioned above, it became an umbrella gallery, and was too subjective in the first place. Not only that, but the entire purpose of the image galleries is not to be a place for us to post pics from around the Internet, but to post relevant examples of the article in question).

As for the forum, since its purpose is not to give accurate examples of an article, users can post whatever non-cringeworthy bullshit they want in there. Unfortunately, your right of free speech doesn't give you the right to attack other people. I've been seeing a trend, specifically with "cringe."

The image gallery and forum, also r/cringe on reddit (if I'm not mistaken; I don't go there myself), they all will eventually devolve from their original "intention" to being used to attack and belittle other people, whether they deserve it or not. And now Cheezburger has recently added a "Cringe" category on Memebase. You can take a good guess as to how that will end up.

It's almost like Godwin's law, only worse; the older an online "cringe hub" is, the greater the percentage of its content is used to attack other people.

No.

You guys had like five or four opportunities to learn from your mistakes and yet, here we are, talking about how to end with this issue for once.

It's "3rd times a charm" and not "4th times a charm" for a reason.

Alright, sorry for not responding. I'm here now, but most of everything has been said already.

The problem with the thread was that much of the same problems that were present in the gallery were in the thread.

Users were posting things they either didn't agree with or just felt like shaming.

Some believed that the thread allowed more elbow room, but if the gallery was locked for those reasons, it could be argued that the same thing could be an attempt at derailing the thread.

The way I see, users used the thread and the gallery to make themselves feel superior to many things. Going so far as to let themselves take action for it. When mods decided to bring everyone down a level and remind you all that you're not much better than the people you were shaming, you all became irate and started acting as if mods had done something wrong. I took a look through the thread, you guys were acting pretty bad yourselves, not very different than many things you all shared.

So, here's how I see it. You all want to feel big and will hate anyone who dares to remind you that the contrary is true.

@Schabbs

No, three strikes are far more than enough to make a final judgment.

@Randomman

I know on a few other forums im on, they have the coding to do limited access to the controversial or threads that are easy troll targets and have minimal issues like what the cringeworthy thread has. I'm just throwing out possible suggestions off of what i have dealt with with different forums . I am currently studying the the field of maintenance and repair so i do tend to think of solutions to issues for mostly bad to worse case scenarios which is why my suggusetion may ahve sounded a bit extreme. In an earlier post you did mention about the users reporting the bad apples and keeping each other in check would be a great idea. I also would wonder if requiring that a post in a unlocked thread require that the post have a bit of a description that gave us a more clear understanding of what the cringe in the post was to help alleviate some post being mistaken for a "post things that the poster doesnt like" when there is some legit cringe within the post. I think if that the posters Keep each other in check, report offenders, make the psots so the cringe is easy to understand and not easly mistaken for something the poster hats by giving it a clear description of the cringe, properly putting posts and pics in proper threads/galleries, and SHOW RESPECT to all. As for now i think the best thing to do is to let the thread cool down locked for a good amount of time.

It's become quite clear that a cringe thread/Gallery can't really work here on KYM. Why? I honestly think it comes down to one thing, the Mods here are nice. r/cringe or r/cringepics have a zero tolerance policy, and that's they way it has to be or else you have people posting thing they personally don't like and not just social media blunders or things that actually constitute cringe. when it comes down to it, the cringeworthy meme is pretty mean spirited and it can quickly go into bashing and cyberbullying if not controlled by no nonsense mods. I think its best to just forget about opening up the gallery or a new thread.

As someone who loved the Cringeworthy Image Gallery and Thread, I say that we permanently lock them. The reason. why is that we have already been given a lot of chances to prove that we can maintain anything Cringeworthy. I know that I might get karma bombed, but that is just my opinion. Not that it matters, of course.

The mods made the right decision. This is basically the first Permanent Red Link Club Entry and for good reason.
When users here are targeting users on other sites, they are just being a cyber-bullies, and there is no excuse they can give to justify their actions, even if the users they are targeting are jerks themselves, it just proves that they are no different than their targets.

Look this entire entry was a ticking time bomb. Everything about the cringeworthy meme is a cause for issues with this particular site. The entire idea is reacting to out of this world fetishes, images, comment screen shots, etc.

However, things like this are part of internet culture. "Cringeworthy" has a place on the internet. But maybe this site is just not the best place to showcase it? Maybe the standards of it just don't jell well with certain meme's. And there are prominent meme's out there that don't get their showcase because they offend. But in the end, there is NO avoiding the problems. Much of what makes this meme what it is involves reaction to subjective things. The idea is that something is so weird to you that you "cringe".

I don't get involved with the forums, but I'm sorry to see Cringe go, since it was pretty much the first thing I watched closely on this site. At the same time, I realize that it's always been something at the edge of acceptable.

Remembering back, it was a cycle of negative feedback. People would post idiocy in order to attack something, get attacked, and then the attackers would etc. I contributed to the cycle, and everyone did.

Ultimately in the end, the mods did the right course of action; we had our chances, and we blew all of them.
But its not entirely our fault, It concurs that the whole definition for what qualifies as "cringe-worthy" is also partly to blame.
What constitutes as "cringe-worthy" is relative, and up for individual interpretation.
Partly because of this ambiguity, And without a central/common agreed upon definition; the gallery, and forum would eventually deviate into madness, and chaos (partly because of the greater internet fuckwad theory. which states that normal users act like "fuckwads" when given anonymity, and a captive audience). With a lack of centralized and agreed upon definition, of what qualifies for and against "cringeworthy". it was inevitable that the gallery, and thread would be locked indefinatly.

TL;DR: the ending of the gallery, and thread was partly due to the fact that the definition of "Cringeworthy" and what qualifies as, and not is too ambiguous for proper moderation.
And also partly because of the greater internet fuckwad theory.
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/greater-internet-fuckwad-theory

After reading on the issue at hand I hope that after my years of experience here I can craft a useful opinion.

For as long as I can look back, this site has been in a sort of limbo between being SFW and NSFW. I have always been in favor of swaying toward SFW territory because, in m view, Know Your Meme functions as a sort of gatekeeper of internet culture. When I first began reading about memes, this was the second stop I made after Wikipedia. With that said, I grew comfortable with the fact that as I browsed, I would gain a sense that there are darker places on the internet, and that I would learn of them, see hints of them, but never actually see the raw material. That is, I believe, a decent ideal to put forth. Ultimately, this site should function as an information source first and foremost.

Posting so-called "cringeworthy" material, which I can only imagine at this point has devolved into gore pictures, undermines this mission. I could expand and encompass multiple sitewide grievances under this umbrella statement, but let me leave it thusly: people shouldn't come here to read about Goatse and expect to actually see it.

Perhaps Know Your Meme is not a safe zone, but it is also not /b/.

Hm, well, it seems after the initial upset died down, most people tend to agree that the cringeworthy part of our site was too inviting to bad ideas. I'd say the mods made the right decision in locking it down. As for my question of whether it can be redeemed, probably not on this site.

Places for cringe instead of KYM:

TumblrInAction

Cringeworthy on Reddit

Cringe Channel

"Memebase (>implying memebase itself isn't cringe)":http://memebase.cheezburger.com/cringe?ref=railteaser

And much, much more.

I am aware of the fact that no one cares about my opinions, but I'm all for keeping both locked. Just makes sense. I would write a doctoral thesis on why, but I'm too lazy and everyone up above has practically written one for me.

I have an idea. I don't know if it has been posted, but:

1. Enforce a stricter policy:
   1. Picutres with visible names and avatars will be deleted on the instant.
   2. Cyberbullying will be deleted on the instant.
      1. If blogs recieve anonhate in our name.
      2. Bashing Mods or other users
   3. Fetsihes will be deleted on the instant.
   4. Opinions will be deleted on the instant.
   5. Ideologies will be deleted on the instant.
2. Recruit some Mods specifically for Cringeworthy.
3. Stricter punishment for frequent rule breakers
   1. First warning comes after the first rule-breaking, comes with uploading-ban of 2 days.
   2. Second warning comes with the second rule-breaking and comes with an uploading-ban for a week.
   3. Third warning comes with the third braking of the rules and results in a perma-ban of uploading.

This sounds extreme (imo) and I will change this when better propsals are made.
If the idea of mods for cringeworthy

should

Recruit some Mods specifically for Cringeworthy.

Why you guys have this weird idea that cringeworthy is the main reason why the site exists?

And let me guess, next thing you say is "I want to be a mod".

If the idea of mods for cringeworthy should be accepted I volunteer for the work.

Is funny how everyone in here try hard to get noticed.

But giving a serious answer, NO. Another OP already wanted to be a mod for the same reason. [Spoilers] He didn't get the job. [/spoilers]

Instead of making a rebuttal I will just copy and paste what Twilitlord said:

I really don’t like this; the fact that we have to even consider solutions like this shows how problematic this has been. It’s time to get rid of it.

Agreed there, tho there is a reason I put ,,should'' in bold.

But there is a problem with getting rid of it.

>Cringeworthy-ness is actual internet slang
>Ergo it needs its article (not sure about this)
>People will spam the gallery and it wil get locked
>The problems we face now happen again
>Cringeworthy ver.2 get's deleted
>The circle starts again

Your opinions?

But there is a problem with getting rid of it.
>Cringeworthy-ness is actual internet slang
>Ergo it needs its article (not sure about this)
>People will spam the gallery and it wil get locked
>The problems we face now happen again
>Cringeworthy ver.2 get’s deleted
>The circle starts again
Your opinions?

Yeah, I don't know if you are joking with us or you're trying to sound serious.

Either way, don't waste time proposing impossible solutions for something you can´t fix. Cringeworthy gallery/thread/entry are gone for good. If you want cringe I suggest you to read the post that Choco Taco made.

We're done with all this.

Agreed.

Mod decision has been to lock everything permanently. If you want to help by notifying us of problematic images in the gallery, you may use this thread. Please understand that that thread is only to be used for image cleanup; please do not use it to complain or offer new suggestions. I might just delete your post.

There may be further action announced related to this issue in the coming days.

Locking.