Forums / Discussion / Serious Debate

All I heard from Taryn was "say what you want to say how we want you to say it, and edit out the parts we don't like". Defeats the purpose of clearing the air and getting it all out. This thread was a joke and forgive me for treating it as such and pushing the envelope to get as much fulfillment out of this thread as possible. And the same with this website. Why shouldn't a joke of a site be treated like one? A joke of a user treated like a fool? Taking things that have no place being serious seriously is a waste of everyone's time.

Your posts are a waste of time.

The point of this board is to have a serious discussion in an attempt to not look like children. You have failed.

If you are unwilling to change, you can leave.

No, feel free to criticize me, just do it in a better way. The way you've done it so far is more akin to shitposting or /b/tardation than actual criticism. So, what's your deal with me? Why do you hold this intense grudge even though I barely know you and you barely know me? Why do you think I'm such a terrible user who should leave the site, because it clearly seems like that's the only way to make you happy. Seriously? What do you want from me?

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Thanks for backing me up Taryn! It means a lot.

I'm willing to become friends with anyone, and if I've done you wrong please come out and say it. i would like to apologize to whoever feels they've got any beef with me.

@Science spider

He want's nothing. Except to watch this entire website burn. He's made his choice not to accept resolution on his grievances now that he's aired them. As such he's already agreed not to post here again. Some people don't believe in forgiveness. Nothing more to be said.

Let's get back on topic.

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@From here on out

The goal of this thread is not comedy. Or else Bob would have posted this in Riff Raff. The goal is to voice problems and cross bridges.

Because this community recognizes that it has flaws and wants to move forward

You can voice your problems here. But if you want them to have any impact…any difference at all…if you want to actually move forward from any pain or disgruntlement, you must listen and understand what others are saying in this thread and cross that bridge with them.

If you don't want to cross bridges, if you only want to say your piece then continue to affirm yourself in it. Say it, then leave this thread and know that by not wanting to move forward with the community, it's now you with the problem

Don't remain here and continue to burn bridges. I'll consider that derailing

Honestly, I have to question the wisdom of opening a thread like this. While clearing the air is usually the best course of action between two rational people who'd both like to see an end to conflict, if one side has no intention to repair broken bridges there's no hope of recovery. While your intentions are pure as usual, Bob, the results here have been fairly mixed. Hopefully we'll see better progress from now on.

There aren't any particular users here that I hold a grudge against. I guess I'm just not active often enough to get involved in such squabbles. There are a few users that I dislike in a small way, usually those who have an immature posting style, but that fault is with me rather than them. I do sometimes feel that the mods are too harsh. It's not so much that they're doing a bad job – far from it, in fact – but their presentation could be better at times.

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@Science Spider

You're doing nothing wrong. From what I've seen of your posts on other threads, you fit in well with the community at large and you generally make a good contribution to the site. Best not to let him get to you.

Fuck you Science I was Spider first.

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Seriously though I find that even if I don't like a users attitude sometimes (Taryn) I can still get a long and be friends. The thing that I think to consider is that some of us are people who don't want any serious discussion and try to avoid it and prefer stuff more akin to shitposting or something else and others are the opposite. I think the key thing is balance.

This can go for mods too because I can agree when some say they're to strict or in some cases don't even act like a user. One of my main things against Bob is that for a while even though he was having normal conversations he would also constantly provoke people for arguments that could take up a massive chunk of chat and dominate the whole conversation. These arguments could start from one or two lines of text and sometimes not even awful statements. And because that was pretty much all I saw him do was argue, it felt like he just came on IRC to police what we were saying.

And in doing so, maybe we can reach an understanding and move on past whatever ails us.

So far it's been mostly turds flying around and people complaining on why they don't like specific people. An attempt at getting along better has not really shown itself yet.

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My main issue is mostly the superiority complex of everyone. No party excluded. You can go to one chat and hear them complain about another party, and if you then go to a different chat you'll hear that same complaint again only the other way around.

Any of those groups can make a spam thread, and that same group will laugh about it. Another group will probably facepalm at the thread. But if that other group then makes a spam thread for them to enjoy, the first group facepalms. Each group has a different form of humor, but they all believe that their opinion and humor is the superior kind and everything else should get the lock.

Here's a thing: You're all just a bad.

Each party, myself included, needs to get pushed of their pedestrals and accept that they're just the same as others. You're a poster on a forum on a site about memes, so the cards are stacked against you anyways. I don't care which chat you visit or how old your account is. Accept that you will never share the same opinions about certain stuff, have different humor and interest, and let each other enjoy what they like. Don't make a hobby out of annoying the other side or circlejerk over how bad they are.

I can have an argument with a person one day, but if we agree that it should be forgive and forget, then you won't hear me about it again the other day and I'll chat normally with him/her. Some people just hold ancient grudges and I don't really understand how you can make a user on a site about memes such a big issue to yourself.

I think most people would agree. If I were you I would have also made the "Some people have ancient grudges" bit in bold.

Also I'm curious to know who you perceive as a group (I'm guessing IRC members is one). Maybe that might be a problem because people are giving almost guilt by association like saying "You're/They're X's friend" or "Well you talk to X" and thus refuse to talk to them.

IRC, Skype, Steam, there's a few Mibbit channels, some RPG groups, old chats, projects like the Pokemon Hack. The main issue groups are the IRC, a Skype group, and a Mibbit channel. Those three all have oldfag- and mod regulars with ancient grudges, and all have people who've been into drama with people from another group.

Thank you Taryn, for keeping things in order while I was gone.

Thank you Ann, for having the attitude I was hoping for.

Also, thanks everyone for the insightful posts. I hope everyone is reading these things and thinking over them thoroughly. If something is just not true about yourself, then it probably doesn't involve you or there's a misunderstanding somewhere.

The goal of this thread was to cross bridges and clear up misunderstandings. So, thanks for participating.

If you have more stuff you'd like to say, then feel free to. And if you have problems with specific users, then bring it up in a civil manner.

There are obviously some conflicts between users here, and while I don't fully understand some of the conflicts that currently stand, I do see that there needs to be some serious reparations, so I was thinking we could try some sort of community activity. It would of course take some planning, and it will take a bit of work to get the different KYM "factions" to participate with each other, but it is the only thing I see working at this point. As for what, perhaps something as simple as a movie night or multiplayer game. Admittedly I recall both of those activities creating factions of their own in the past, but that's why I'm bringing it up here for discussion. If anyone has ideas as to what could be done, or input on whether this is a good idea, go for it, since it would be on topic as for the thread.

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As for the main topic, I suppose if I ever had any animosity towards any user, it would have been Natsuru. I would like however, to say that I think he really stepped up as a mod, and has matured as a user in the time I've been gone, and it was a pleasant surprise when I returned yesterday.

Several people have asked to me post here. All I'm going to say is that I don't feel the need to justify how I view others, and I'm not going to.

I don't have any major issues here about KYM since most of them have been resolved in the past, I don't need to have issues on the internet while having to deal with my own personal problems in real life. But I will admit that I do have one problem here and I wouldn't say that it's major grievance and more of a pet peeve but I'll let you all decide on that.

I can't stand looking at the brand new member avatar icon. It's not because it looks bad or anything like that (but it is bland as hell) it's just that when I was still new to this site I had to deal with trolls pestering me in my first month here and ever since I can't look at those icons without having a small part of my brain saying that the new guys are good for nothing trolls.

No one has asked you to. Just asking that you state how you feel so others may know.

You've been giving some very faulty reasons for not wanting to post in here.

wow never knew that was so much animosty against each other here. I'm glad that a thread like this exist

I dislike Molly for making the site a social justice haven. She blows social justice-related things out of proportion in order to flood the site and the front page with entries on it. She's also putting way too much tumblr and Twitter stuff on the site. And lastly, she added a section to the Pokemon article for something which doesn't have its own article, which is inconsistent with the other sections, and therefore irks me.

Also, I like this Sandstone guy.

Shut up Philip

FYI: to anyone thinking I'm being mean, I'm not. I aleays tell Philip that. I actually like the lil faggot.

No u

@RandomMan

Yes, knocking people off pedestals is good. I feel like I've been knocked off mine a while ago for the most part aside from a few instances, but it's only human to view yourself in a positive light. Thanks to all of you who helped me get over my internet ego for the most part though. If you think I still have too much of one, please let me know. I haven't really heard any complaints about it recently though so I've assumed I'm in the safe zone, but I want to know if I'm being too full of myself. Also, I had no idea there were "KYM factions". Well, I new that some of the old-fags held some spite against some of the new-fags and vice-versa, but I never knew there was actually several rifts in the community. That's something that needs fixing, which is what this is for, so I hope this thread works out.

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@Spider-byte

TOO BAAAAD! Well, you're Spiderman and I'm actually a spider, so I've always thought we were different enough. It's better than me being called Sam when there's another user is also Sam. With usernames, there's usually no winning. If it's different enough, I say it's fine. (Ex: Random 21 and RandomMan are different enough in my opinion) Pretty sure you're just kidding around but I'll just make it clear. Also, if you know me, you know I change my profile regularly out of boredom, so you might become "the only spider" once more eventually.

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@This thread

This is getting way off. This thread is becoming "unpopular opinions" or "pet peeves" or something like that. It's been better lately, but Bob's noble goal has been far from reality so far. If people come with the intention of building bridges or repairing them, that's what this is for. If people just came to whine and show everyone they're right, that's what Riff-Raff is for, so get off if you have that attitude. A good example of the right attitude was Ann's post.

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@Phillip

Well, that's more of a personal thing for you so I can't really argue with that, but please understand that Molly is a Tumblr regular who knows all about what goes on in the site. She doesn't necessarily agree with what the majority of Tumblr does, but it's her specialty so that's usually what she publishes. If you're not happy with her articles, there are two or three other staff members who regularly make articles that don't involve Tumblr including the rest of the userbase as well. She is making a difference, but KYM isn't all Tumblr all the time, at least in my opinion. Again, this is more of an opinion thing that's hard to argue.

I know thread derailing is your calling, Vasquez, but when we're in the serious debate section you're actually going to be expected to stay on topic, so please do so.

@Philip:
I can actually agree on this one. Molly makes good articles and all and most internet spread these days has to do with social justice and twitter hashtags, but the sheer volume of it that's being brought here seems to be making our users pretty negative and grumpy, especially in the comments section where any hope for respecting opposing opinion goes out the window.

@Science Spider
"Yes, knocking people off pedestals is good. I feel like I’ve been knocked off mine a while ago for the most part aside from a few instances, but it’s only human to view yourself in a positive light. Thanks to all of you who helped me get over my internet ego for the most part though. If you think I still have too much of one, please let me know. I haven’t really heard any complaints about it recently though so I’ve assumed I’m in the safe zone, but I want to know if I’m being too full of myself."

Add me to the list of people who need to learn when to shut up, if there is one. I've been relatively neutral as of late, but considering the embarrassment and disappointment in myself that came with the recent fiasco between the IRC and Pokémon Hack factions, I would rather not repeat my actions.

@Everyone
Speaking of which, if anyone hasn't already read into the Pokémon Hack thread to see my thoughts after the event, then I would like to address the fact that I'm sorry. I got way to emotional over something trivial, and because I'm a literal-thinking person, it took me a few hours of thinking over the facts and information to realise how much of a toss pot I was being over what actually turned out to be a joke. And while some have already forgiven me, I still feel like shit over it.

This isn't the thread for that. If you're feeling sorry for yourself, go apologize to everyone individually.

I'm going to ask that this thread stop being derailed.

@dr. sockpuppet

don't worry about it dude, as long as you admit that how you reacted wrong and learned from this i'm sure everything will be alright. So its all good, you've apologized and learned from this, unlike another user.

don't derail the thread dude, just send me a PM

I don't hate anyone on this website and I don't want to hate anyone. But I do sometimes feel like some people here might not like me because of some stupid things I've done in the past. In fact, I'm still make dumb decisions to this day. I don't know how else to say this, but please don't hate me if I've ever did something on this site that you didn't like. I mean no harm.

Before I start I'd like to point out that Molly is not the sole culprit for this, Don is equally guilty of making a lot of SJ entries (Brad is admittedly pretty clean on this front though).

I'd also like to point out that there are a lot of subculture entries that have sections for memes which don't have entries, I can think of quite a few in fact

Other than that, I'm pretty torn on whether I agree or not. On the one hand, yeah, I totally get the point. As someone who's been insistent on changing the attitudes of the comment section, I can agree with Crimson that the most effective solution would be to just cut down on them drastically. I've complained in the past about the entries that are getting frontpaged now (I'm in particular against the animal subculture entries we're starting to get, as well as entries for thing like Fleshlights), so I get what it's like.

On the other hand, I've started to come to understand why there's so much Tumblr and Twitter entries now, because they're the only two sites that really have a constant amount of viral media. Hashtags and SJ movements are some of the most frequent sources of entry-worthy material. Plus, how often are memes in the traditional sense showing up now? I remember the other week there was a thread about best meme of 2014 so far, and the mass consensus was that there's hardly been any. The only things we've had are TPP, Luigi's Death Stare, E3, Flappy Bird, Frozen and the World Cup memes. Compared to previous years, this really isn't much. If we asked the admins to stop making SJ and Hashtag entries, how many entries do you think we'd get? Not very many.

Like I said, I get what you're saying, the influx annoys me too (although more for the same reasons as Crimson), but I can see why this is the direction we're starting to go in.

don’t derail the thread dude, just send me a PM

That's the point of the thread. Let him.

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I’ll have you know I actually did apologize.

See, ever since that traumatic incident, I’ve seen some users go against me, including you, Spider-Byte, Captain Blubber, ShadowManCreator, and alot more.

I’ve been on the IRC alot of times explaining this stuff, only to see more and more people say “you’re a piece of shit slime!” Infact, I have even thought of getting off this site just to not be tossed into deep trouble. I have been karma bombed, PMed, and all that. I have yet to see one person support me here, aside from someone who will stay anonymous for obvious reasons.

It's all good apologizing but you made the apology pointless by continuing to act in the same way that caused the problem. When you said sorry it meant nothing because you sent that PM to Shadowman and kept on complaining about which you have not apologized for. If you just changed your attitude and moved on no one would have carried on downvoting you.

Also quick note in the Space NatRP thing where you got downvotes. It's because we hadn't even chose the scenario and you had made a race (which only one of the scenarios allowed that).

I propose this. Move on from everything before this point. Don't bring up anything from before or complain and I promise to stop insulting you. Deal?

Hm. I see. I do admit that I have been incredibly immature in the past, largely coming off as some ditz to a lot of people…. okay, I do wonder why many of you put up with me, but that's kinda besides the point. I did become self aware and did change my values, and I'm glad my efforts where not fruitless.

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Which, to segue into my own post, is why I'm not going to talk about Katie Starshine or Taryn or any of the other people who wound up harassing me before that conscious effort was made. (I would actually like to have an admin come in and take away all the negative karma I had given to Katie during that period of time, but I can deal with it.)

My current frustrations are slightly complicated. So I guess I will just tackle the main one.

LICH. Man oh man, Gespenst/Frosty Lich.

This is the first time I had ever been legitimately frustrated with anyone after Katie C. I perfectly understand why people would have found me annoying, which Lich has in the past has outlined as something that pretty much boils down to "Natsuru is a Self Centered Brat". And that opinion I was actually very aware of. Was afraid of people noticing. Hell, even invited on IRL Friends to act as a meatsheild for me.

So what is my frustration…?

Basically, Lich had the ability to intervene with my obnoxious tendencies. I considered him very close to me way back when. I would have sat down and listened to every word he said. And he was present for the large amount of time where I didn't know what I was doing wrong and was lost. I was hungry for tips on how to self improve. Know Your Meme was like a Sensory Deprivation Chamber in terms of feedback (which is why I got in over my head in the first place).

So? Lich had problems with me. He didn't realize I had enough trust in him that he could alleviate the problem. And then just cast me aside. Deciding to hate me to this day for the person I was.

Taryn was/is just unconditionally harsh, Cale is just unconditionally hateful, but Lich… those circumstances REALLY stung.

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Though I do realize those feelings lack consideration towards how Lich was feeling. Which… go ahead and add self confidence or internet norms to the equation, the bridge burning might have been at least a little bit justified.

But I don't feel like keeping a lasting grudge is.

Dr Sockpuppet:

Speaking of which, if anyone hasn’t already read into the Pokémon Hack thread to see my thoughts after the event, then I would like to address the fact that I’m sorry.

HolyCrapItsBob:

This isn’t the thread for that. If you’re feeling sorry for yourself, go apologize to everyone individually.

I’m going to ask that this thread stop being derailed.

Considering that his apology prompted some reasonable discussion, I don't see why it should be considered wrong for him to post here. If you feel you've wronged somebody, you might not be able to count on them making the first post so you can sort things out. 'Clearing the air' doesn't have to be initiated by the people who were wronged. If the person who wronged others wishes to take the first step, I don't think they should be prevented from doing so.

Also, I had no idea there were “KYM factions”

There shouldn't even be any factions.

No factions. No segregation. No political parties. We don't want those those here!

I suppose the fact that some people here weren't aware of the factions is a good thing, it at least gives hope to the goal that we can build a community without these small groups pitting against each other

KYM's factions are actually strikingly similar to political parties in that they tend to radically divide over minor issues. Take LezHuarez's banning, which I have been itching to complain about for a long time let me tell ya for example: one group decided he shouldn't have been banned, the other decided he should have. Thus the "i miss lez" and anti-lez groups squabbled ceaselessly for weeks on end and wouldn't drop it anywhere. And that incident was far from abnormal – this happens literally every time a minor controversy erupts. Something divisive appears, the users divide into factions (usually old versus new users, I've noticed), insanity ensues, and people have pretty much forgotten anything had happened the next month. It's like some sort of formulaic kids' show; it always happens that way and it's beyond frustrating to watch.

This site is pretty rad, the only problem I have is that when a new entry is created (say one thats fairly big on a few sites) if the KYM users havent seen it, they instantly go to the "+1 deadpool" thing.

Since this is a thread about bringing up issues no matter how petty:

I stated earlier that users who do not follow the KYM Image guidelines (namely the parts pertaining to relevance, tags, and sourcing) get on my nerves. I get that sometimes you may forget, not know exactly what to tag, and if you are a BNM, you might just not know about it. I'm fine with helping out in those instances.
However, what I do not like is users that have become aware of the issue, and adamantly refuse to try and fit it, even if the request is just "from this point onward."

We have Almost 180,000 images that have over +1000 views/over 5 upvotes. Users have made threads trying to deal with the issue, as well as making pictures trying to get users tagging

It, and metadata in general helps to find images easier, makes it quick to locate reposts (essential for galleries that have over 1,000 images) and makes it infinitely easier for image mods to move images from catchall galleries if a new entry on something is made (The most recent example of this is with the Thor entry )

There are various users who I have specifically requested to follow this bit of the KYM Image gallery guidelines, particularly because they are some of the largest contributors to untagged/ unsourced images on the site. Since this thread is meant to talk about users, Derpy Vazquez, MLPlightningNO1, Rammin, and Gammerick are some that I have requested and have not. However, Derpy Vazquez gets a special mention due to this post making fun of a user who was trying to get them to follow said image guidelines.

I really don't want to be a jerk, and I want to get along with everyone. But for pete's sake, stop making more work for the people who want the site to better. I'm not as upset as Deltamon's "What you’re doing is pissing in the pool. Stop uploading images until you realize how important this is and don’t make jokes out of not doing it." but seriously, make an effort at helping make the number of untagged images on the site smaller, not larger

TL;DR: Follow the KYM Image Gallery Guidelines. Make good media uploads (with tags and source when applicable) to help make the site's search function work better and try to better serve our function as a Documentation site. It should not be that much to ask, and it's what you should be doing already.

I don't have a serious problem with anyone on this site, just minor annoyances. I'm sorry in advance if this comes out like me making a big deal of nothing. As far as the mods. I wan't to point out that the mods are much better on this site then most others. I think the tension comes from the fact that the mods being better and more friendly than normal makes users hold them to a higher standard. That being said I do disagree with some of the decisions they make. I don't see why an internet site bans shitposters and trolls. I mean it's one thing if they do the whole "make a meme thing" but just uploading stupid images and making stupid comments? I don't see the problem as long as there are real examples. Other then that I don't see the need to lock threads as often as they are. It's one thing to delete a really stupid/spam thread or move it to the right section but there's no need to lock a thread as soon as a question is answered. I've often had something to contribute or a question to ask that would belong in a thread that has just been closed. And I don't get why mods close threads as soon as they see signs of "karma whoring". I don't see why it matters if people get imaginary internet points they don't deserve.

As someone who rarely goes on the community and instead takes the time out of my KYM viewing day to post witty comments on funny pictures, I find that the animosity between normal users and higher-ups is the lack of communication. The community I voluntarily help clean up is filled with normal users who enjoy our company simply because we participate in their activities: Forum Games, Video Game discussion, Flash Game competitions, you name it.

There will always be a few bad apples who do it just to be bad apples or simply cannot fathom someone with a little bit of power being down-to-earth, but in the few times I pop in here, the angst is pretty minimal. If you want to see true axe-grinding, just head on over to a little community called NarutoBase -- The hatred for the moderation and administration knows no bounds!

@theclassicrock

Other then that I don’t see the need to lock threads as often as they are. It’s one thing to delete a really stupid/spam thread or move it to the right section but there’s no need to lock a thread as soon as a question is answered. I’ve often had something to contribute or a question to ask that would belong in a thread that has just been closed.

I agree with you on this. There is really no reason to lock a thread when a question is answered. I don't do this and I would encourage other mods not to do this either.

The trend comes from support ticket forums where threads are considered a single per-person deal.

Admins lock a users ticket once they done so other people don't come in and repeat their own issues in them.

But this is a public forum, not a support ticket forum. Threads are expected to receive input from numerous users. Even if the OP is done. Locking answered threads has no purpose other that to frustrate others who still have additional questions on the topic

I know that people don't like me for how I used to act. I don't blame them, but people change. The problem is I never wronged them personally, but I feel like I should apologize to them so we can start mending relationships.

I actually had no Idea IRC chat existed until a few weeks ago.

@ANN

If it makes you feel better. I assure you that I never disliked you for any reason and think you are a great guy.

so what exactly did you do?

@Blue

Thanks! You're a pretty cool guy too.

@TripleA9000
For the longest time I was immature, I was super egotistical, and generally a pain.

oh. Well you don't seem that bad now, you actually seem pretty cool

I tried being nice

@Jacob
Woah, I once said that or something similar, didn't I? Eugh.

I can completely understand if certain users may not like me, because my personality is very black and white on this site; either fun and casual or extremely naggy.

I'm easily set off by image-related issues on this site, and it's been that way for me for quite a while now (even way before becoming a mod), so every so often I kinda…blow up. I realize this is just a site about memes, but at the same time, we have casual areas in the site and "formal" areas. I consider correct documentation serious business. I don't want anyone I've "blown up" at to think I personally hate them, or that my opinion of them is set in stone.

That being said, I do have issues with certain users. Most of them, however, come and go; these people are the users that upload many images and yet either neglect non-umbrella galleries or simply don't realize we have galleries beyond the umbrella ones. Angelcake is one of the users bugging me right now because I have to check his gallery every so often just to move his shit out of the Childhood galleries or what have you and into better ones. Also, King Kabuki really bugs me and has for quite a while; he just doesn't seem to care about any other galleries besides Reaction Faces and the Childhood galleries, all of which he misuses most of the time.

There were also a few users I don't see around anymore that I didn't care for (Dr. Kori and some other guy I can't remember), but one that's still around and I know I don't like him is Slime 'Cap. He's just so toxic to users in general, and clutters up the forums with short sentence-long rebuttals that include calling you a faggot. I'd like to see him act more positive more often.

Most users I like though. We have some great people on this site, and we shouldn't forget that.

OK from now on I'm tagging all my images no Tags just for you

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Just saying! Not sure if Buddha even said the second one and I'm not really going to fact check it, but the message of these quotes still ring true and I thought were pretty relevant to this thread. I've been seeing some progress now instead of the previous "turd flinging". Also, I know this joke is overused, but some people just need to…