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A Reddit post about one of Undertale's more overlooked themes

4 Posted by u/UndyneTheFishie 17 hours ago 918 Here, have some Undyne morality memes! B Meme 162 Comments + Award Sort By: Best ▼ View all comments Share Save Reply Give Award Share Report Save Follow RED_ROck 12 hr. ago id love to read that actually, if you done mind ↑ 12 SayFuzzyPickles42 13 hr. ago. edited 12 hr. ago I could go on for several paragraphs about why Undyne's character development not only properly redeems her, despite her actions at the beginning of the story ostensibly being just as morally incorrect as the actions of the characters accepted as villains, but is also a really important part of one of Undertale's more subtle and unspoken themes. I could and I'd be happy to if anybody shows interest. ↑ 35 ↓ Hide SayFuzzyPickles42 7 hr. ago edited 7 hr. ago Appreciate to hear it! Reply Give Award Share Report Save Follow Report So, I think one of the mores subtle aspects of Undertale's setting that gets overlooked a lot by the fandom, which is a shame because it serves as a pillar for its overall theme of friendship and commonality overcoming differences, is the effect that total social segregation has on people. All throughout the game, while its never explicitly stated, we see lots of scattered references to the idea that anti-human rhetoric is completely ingrained and ubiquitous in monster society. Bratty and Catty talk about the destruction of humanity like its an upcoming sports event, the books in the librarby explicitly describe monsters as being inherently good and humans as inherently dangerous, and all throughout the game, there are characters with wildly incorrect preconceived notions about the human race - as funny as the "anime is real" gag is, objectively, an assumption like that could never have come about without a dramatically skewed view of human society. We also are given the strong impression that Alphys' positive opinion on humans is extremely unpopular, and her "human fan club" might even needed to have been held in secret. Its not clear whether this has always been the case; perhaps the reason the fallen human was seen as "the future of humans and monsters" was because their arrival turned these preconceptions around and monster society was on its way to becoming willing to ally with humanity, but we all know how that went. Regardless, its clear that, at least ever since Asgore declared war on humanity, monster society has become entrenched with the idea that humans aren't just the enemy, but they aren't even people - for lack of a better word, they're completely dehumanized. This is reflective of the way war efforts represent enemy nations and their subsequent impact on society in real life. Now, is any of this okay? No, of course it isn't. Bigotry and xenophobia are never okay in any context. However, what makes monsters different from most xenophobic people is that they are in a situation where there is no realistic recourse for unlearning this xenophobia. Monsters are 100% physically and socially isolated from humans, leaving them only with themselves and their own feedback loop of misinformation and propaganda, and any human who falls into the underground that might potentially challenge this loop is killed on sight. A person trapped in this bubble cannot reasonably be expected to wake up one day and suddenly think to question everything they've ever been taught to be true. While it obviously feels like Undyne is more of an extreme human-hating bigot because of her behavior, the only difference between her and the average monster is that she's just an extreme person in general. Don't forget, while Undyne makes a bigger show of it than almost everybody, almost every monster who realizes that you're human attacks you on sight. Undyne's perspective and murderous attitude toward humanity isn't unique, just her personality and her level of authority within the royal guard. This is one of the less-obvious reasons why the decisions that the player makes while they're in the underground carry so much weight - Frisk falling into the underground is first chance that almost every monster in the underground have ever been given to learn what a human is actually like. You have the option to reinforce their preconceived notions a million times over, of course, but the game heavily encourages you to do the opposite - defy everything they've ever been taught and show kindness, love, and mercy. If you so choose, you can't walk ten feet in the game without meeting another monster, making them your friend, and challenging their perception of humans, getting them to think "Wait a minute, humans can be kind? They can feel love and compassion? They have hopes and dreams and fears, just like me? They aren't just emotionless killing machines? Has everything I've ever been taught about them been wrong?" This leads me to probably the most important part of my whole argument - upon making this realization, every single monster lets go of their preconceptions almost immediately. Undyne obviously takes a little longer to convince because she's stubborn and feels such strong conviction as the leader of the royal guard, but, realistically, it can't have been longer than a few hours at most. This proves that Undyne, and the rest of the monsters by comparison, aren't actually bad, hateful people - they're good people who have been brought up in a xenophobic society and never been given the chance to learn better. In fact, all of the monsters are so genuine in their changed ways that they all unanimously show up to support you at the end of the game, nearly sacrificing their lives in the process. Compare what we see Undyne go through with, for instance, Chaos King, who is more representative of what bigoted people in most real-life situations are actually like - even when shown mercy the Lightners, he still stays firm in his belief, even taking advantage of their kindness in order to almost kill them. He's given the chance to unlearn, and refuses. Incidentally, this is why I believe that, when discussing Chara as a character, it doesn't make sense to compare their hatred of humanity with Undyne's. Unlike her, Chara was born into human society and lived among them for years, yet still walked away hating them. Unless Chara was in an i insulated situation where every single human they ever met never showed them any sort of kindness, which is theoretically possible but incredibly unrealistic, they would have had evidence to the contrary of their beliefs and either ignored or misconstrued them. Obviously, people who have been through traumatic events often do think like this and I completely acknowledge that; I just feel like a lot of nuance and interesting discussion is lost when people directly compare Chara's misanthropy with Undyne's misanthropy when, taken in their proper context, its a case of apples and oranges. 24 Reply Give Award Share Report Save Follow a

4 Posted by u/UndyneTheFishie 17 hours ago 918 Here, have some Undyne morality memes! B Meme 162 Comments + Award Sort By: Best ▼ View all comments Share Save Reply Give Award Share Report Save Follow RED_ROck 12 hr. ago id love to read that actually, if you done mind ↑ 12 SayFuzzyPickles42 13 hr. ago. edited 12 hr. ago I could go on for several paragraphs about why Undyne's character development not only properly redeems her, despite her actions at the beginning of the story ostensibly being just as morally incorrect as the actions of the characters accepted as villains, but is also a really important part of one of Undertale's more subtle and unspoken themes. I could and I'd be happy to if anybody shows interest. ↑ 35 ↓ Hide SayFuzzyPickles42 7 hr. ago edited 7 hr. ago Appreciate to hear it! Reply Give Award Share Report Save Follow Report So, I think one of the mores subtle aspects of Undertale's setting that gets overlooked a lot by the fandom, which is a shame because it serves as a pillar for its overall theme of friendship and commonality overcoming differences, is the effect that total social segregation has on people. All throughout the game, while its never explicitly stated, we see lots of scattered references to the idea that anti-human rhetoric is completely ingrained and ubiquitous in monster society. Bratty and Catty talk about the destruction of humanity like its an upcoming sports event, the books in the librarby explicitly describe monsters as being inherently good and humans as inherently dangerous, and all throughout the game, there are characters with wildly incorrect preconceived notions about the human race - as funny as the "anime is real" gag is, objectively, an assumption like that could never have come about without a dramatically skewed view of human society. We also are given the strong impression that Alphys' positive opinion on humans is extremely unpopular, and her "human fan club" might even needed to have been held in secret. Its not clear whether this has always been the case; perhaps the reason the fallen human was seen as "the future of humans and monsters" was because their arrival turned these preconceptions around and monster society was on its way to becoming willing to ally with humanity, but we all know how that went. Regardless, its clear that, at least ever since Asgore declared war on humanity, monster society has become entrenched with the idea that humans aren't just the enemy, but they aren't even people - for lack of a better word, they're completely dehumanized. This is reflective of the way war efforts represent enemy nations and their subsequent impact on society in real life. Now, is any of this okay? No, of course it isn't. Bigotry and xenophobia are never okay in any context. However, what makes monsters different from most xenophobic people is that they are in a situation where there is no realistic recourse for unlearning this xenophobia. Monsters are 100% physically and socially isolated from humans, leaving them only with themselves and their own feedback loop of misinformation and propaganda, and any human who falls into the underground that might potentially challenge this loop is killed on sight. A person trapped in this bubble cannot reasonably be expected to wake up one day and suddenly think to question everything they've ever been taught to be true. While it obviously feels like Undyne is more of an extreme human-hating bigot because of her behavior, the only difference between her and the average monster is that she's just an extreme person in general. Don't forget, while Undyne makes a bigger show of it than almost everybody, almost every monster who realizes that you're human attacks you on sight. Undyne's perspective and murderous attitude toward humanity isn't unique, just her personality and her level of authority within the royal guard. This is one of the less-obvious reasons why the decisions that the player makes while they're in the underground carry so much weight - Frisk falling into the underground is first chance that almost every monster in the underground have ever been given to learn what a human is actually like. You have the option to reinforce their preconceived notions a million times over, of course, but the game heavily encourages you to do the opposite - defy everything they've ever been taught and show kindness, love, and mercy. If you so choose, you can't walk ten feet in the game without meeting another monster, making them your friend, and challenging their perception of humans, getting them to think "Wait a minute, humans can be kind? They can feel love and compassion? They have hopes and dreams and fears, just like me? They aren't just emotionless killing machines? Has everything I've ever been taught about them been wrong?" This leads me to probably the most important part of my whole argument - upon making this realization, every single monster lets go of their preconceptions almost immediately. Undyne obviously takes a little longer to convince because she's stubborn and feels such strong conviction as the leader of the royal guard, but, realistically, it can't have been longer than a few hours at most. This proves that Undyne, and the rest of the monsters by comparison, aren't actually bad, hateful people - they're good people who have been brought up in a xenophobic society and never been given the chance to learn better. In fact, all of the monsters are so genuine in their changed ways that they all unanimously show up to support you at the end of the game, nearly sacrificing their lives in the process. Compare what we see Undyne go through with, for instance, Chaos King, who is more representative of what bigoted people in most real-life situations are actually like - even when shown mercy the Lightners, he still stays firm in his belief, even taking advantage of their kindness in order to almost kill them. He's given the chance to unlearn, and refuses. Incidentally, this is why I believe that, when discussing Chara as a character, it doesn't make sense to compare their hatred of humanity with Undyne's. Unlike her, Chara was born into human society and lived among them for years, yet still walked away hating them. Unless Chara was in an i insulated situation where every single human they ever met never showed them any sort of kindness, which is theoretically possible but incredibly unrealistic, they would have had evidence to the contrary of their beliefs and either ignored or misconstrued them. Obviously, people who have been through traumatic events often do think like this and I completely acknowledge that; I just feel like a lot of nuance and interesting discussion is lost when people directly compare Chara's misanthropy with Undyne's misanthropy when, taken in their proper context, its a case of apples and oranges. 24 Reply Give Award Share Report Save Follow a

undertale reddit

Undyne Nendoroid has been revealed! What do you think ?

கு Myy 11-22

கு Myy 11-22

undertale undyne nendoroid

"I sing for you."

DAME DA NE JANTAGAS 8/18/22 203 DAME YOU DAME NA NO YOU SUKI DE SUKI SUGITE

DAME DA NE JANTAGAS 8/18/22 203 DAME YOU DAME NA NO YOU SUKI DE SUKI SUGITE

undertale mettaton crossover yakuza baka mitai dame da ne

"I'm so sorry, I didn't see you down there"

We all know what's going on on this pic...you know where to find.

We all know what's going on on this pic...you know where to find.

toriel furry goatmom arcatech

undertale dump

you stay away from my five guys penis packets! TT OO 5m download Superfight Steam. AWODOBA 6000000 00000. on O What the H-E-Double hockey sticks is THIS?! certified youtube prankster . 2000 ve ily catrina sans. ilyt I sansy! JHNP JA JHA H 201 EFERBE 2 KRIS?!! waiting for man of my dreams!!1!! V XW;

you stay away from my five guys penis packets! TT OO 5m download Superfight Steam. AWODOBA 6000000 00000. on O What the H-E-Double hockey sticks is THIS?! certified youtube prankster . 2000 ve ily catrina sans. ilyt I sansy! JHNP JA JHA H 201 EFERBE 2 KRIS?!! waiting for man of my dreams!!1!! V XW;

undertale fanart

Asgore fanart I drew for Father's Day

von ww AA9 5/19/22

von ww AA9 5/19/22

undertale asgore frisk asriel father's day fan art

Just beat the Pacifist run again. Such a great game. Prunsel and Jackson were the best characters ob...

(68) THE END

(68) THE END

undertale frisk sans papyrus undyne alphys toriel asgore jackson prunsel

Mandela Effect: Do you remember Jackson? Dr. Alphy's goofy assistant from Undertale, I wonder why no...

ARA 13 * Gee Frisk, Looks like You're down Under here, heckuva Tale ||

ARA 13 * Gee Frisk, Looks like You're down Under here, heckuva Tale ||

undertale frisk jackson

Has anyone else seen this??

tobyfox @tobyfox hello undertale fans! i just got a job at epic games and am currently working on fortnite! sans skin will be added next week! :) (deleting in 1 minute) 4:33 AM Jun 13, 2022 2 Likes 27 :

tobyfox @tobyfox hello undertale fans! i just got a job at epic games and am currently working on fortnite! sans skin will be added next week! :) (deleting in 1 minute) 4:33 AM Jun 13, 2022 2 Likes 27 :

undertale toby fox twitter fortnite

I found this tweet and was inspired

tobyfox @tobyfox (mettaton voice) Oh, Banana 17:29 14 Jan 17 Twitter Web Client . 2,285 Retweets 83 Quote Tweets 6,480 Likes * Blooky Get The Banana * Blooky isn't going to do what you say! * Potassium

tobyfox @tobyfox (mettaton voice) Oh, Banana 17:29 14 Jan 17 Twitter Web Client . 2,285 Retweets 83 Quote Tweets 6,480 Likes * Blooky Get The Banana * Blooky isn't going to do what you say! * Potassium

undertale deltarune toby fox twitter mettaton mad mew mew

#CancelUndyne (This is a joke btw)

4 *Why do you hate me and why are you trying to kill me? * Beacuse all humans are evil creatures for what they did to us! * AND YOUR NO DIFFERENT ILL BRING YOU DOWN NYAHHHH * Wait * ? * So you hate my kind beacuse of what they did in the past * Isn't that kinda... Racist? * NO If alot of your kind does something bad that means your bad right? * OH wait... Damnit * Undyne ran away...

4 *Why do you hate me and why are you trying to kill me? * Beacuse all humans are evil creatures for what they did to us! * AND YOUR NO DIFFERENT ILL BRING YOU DOWN NYAHHHH * Wait * ? * So you hate my kind beacuse of what they did in the past * Isn't that kinda... Racist? * NO If alot of your kind does something bad that means your bad right? * OH wait... Damnit * Undyne ran away...

undertale frisk undyne

Alphys glow up

Remember Alphys from Undertale? Go This is her after 6 of years gym. 停

Remember Alphys from Undertale? Go This is her after 6 of years gym. 停

undertale alphys

Mettaton roasts Ice Cap… more like melts them(?) am I right?

With legs like these your hat is extremely stupid

With legs like these your hat is extremely stupid

undertale mettaton ice cap

Happy Pride

I am not boy or girl I am DETERMINED

I am not boy or girl I am DETERMINED

undertale frisk pride month

Proud bro

OOO tom Nobody is born cool Except of course...

OOO tom Nobody is born cool Except of course...

undertale sans frisk papyrus nobody is born cool

Blooky is confused

· Trying to save the world made with mematic ㅁ 00 Casually watching the battle

· Trying to save the world made with mematic ㅁ 00 Casually watching the battle

undertale napstablook frisk chara toriel asgore sans undyne papyrus alphys the darkest timeline