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Decanter of Endless Water Spaceship
![O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)14:16 No.22071714 Fun Statistics: A steam rocket powered by a Decanter of Endless Water and heated to the operating temperatures of most steam engines would produce 27 kN of thrust, an exhaust velocity of 1450 m/s, and a specific impulse of infinity. A single Decanter would be able to lift anything less than a ton into space. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)14:30 No.22071894 >>22071714 And that is my Artificer's next project. What temperatures do most steam engines usually operate at? I kind of doubt that the Cauldron of Brewing would achieve it? http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/c-d/cauldron-of-brewing >Hot enough to boil salt water. Let's assume that salt water is the highest concentration of sodium chloride soluble by water, or Brine. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)14:36 No.22071951 >>22071894 Those were pretty sketchy calculations at the time I did them, and I have no real faith in the accuracy of that thrust number. Here's the math I used: http://www.braeunig.us/space/propuls.htm http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/rktthsum.html Can't figure out what number I used for the heat of a steam boiler, but apparently the most a standard industrial-revolution steam boiler could withstand was 250 psi, so the temperature should be calculatable with the Ideal Gas Law. (If you make the vessel out of adamantine or riverrine or mithril or something, then there should be no real pressure limit.) O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)14:40 No.22071981 File: 1355686835928.gif-(3 KB, 250x390, Rocket Thrust Image 01.gif) >>22071951 Alright, so the law for thrust of a rocket engine is F= qVe + (Pe- Pa) * Ae Where q is the mass flow, Ve is their ejection speed, Pe is the pressure of the exhaust gasses, Ae is the area of exit, and Pa is the pressure of the ambient atmosphere. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)14:46 No.22072033 >>22071981 Now, we'll assume that this Decanter is on full blast, and we'll assume that the rocket is built in such a way that pressure inside the chamber is constant, so we know that the mass flow g is 18.93 kg/s O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)14:48 No.22072046 >>22072033 Furthermore, we will use that steam-engine figure given earlier and assume that Pc is equal to 250 psi, or 1.721 megaPascals. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)14:57 No.22072138 >>22072123 It's the nozzle factors that are really killing me. I'm not a rocketry expert, and l'm having trouble figuring out what nozzle design I should assume- because, obviously, propellant/oxidizer mix isn't a factor, nozzle designs are really the only important factor. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)15:09 No.22072249 >>22072046 Ah! Found a superheated- steam table. If pressure is 1.721 MPa, then the temperature will be about 200 degrees C. So that gives us Tc as well. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)15:10 No.22072264 >>22072249 And the Specific Heat Ratio of steam is 1.33. That gives me what I need to figure out the idea nozzle factors. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)15:13 No.22072293 Doesn't the rocket still need fuel to turn the endless water into steam? O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)15:14 No.22072303 >>22072293 Cauldron of brewing bro. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)15:14 No.22072311 >>22072303 Or a flaming weapon. Or a portal to the Elemental Plane of Fire. D&D Magic gives no s---- about conservation of mass/energy. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)15:21 No.22072400 >>22072264 Alright, so rounding to 1.7 MPa of chamber pressure and 200 degrees C of chamber temperature... at the throat of the nozzle, the pressure is about 1 MPa and the temperature is about 172 degrees C. Almost to the point where I can work out the thrust. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)15:25 No.22072443 >>22072400 Okay, so now to work out the ideal area of the nozzle. The molecular weight of steam is 18.02, and the area of the nozzle throat is given by > At = (q / Pt) x SQRT[ (R' × Tt) / (M × k) ] O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)15:32 No.22072516 >>22072443 So, the area of the throat for the optimal nozzle for this configuration is about At = (19/1000000)*SQRT((8314 * 450)( 18*1.33) or 0.0075 square meters. Just a few equations to crunch and we'll have the thrust. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)15:35 No.22072559 >>22072516 The hot gases must now be expanded in the diverging section of the nozzle to obtain maximum thrust. The Mach number at the nozzle exit is given by Nm^2 = (2/ (k - 1)) × [(Pc/ Pa)^((k-1)/k) - 1] Do we want to calculate how well this engine will perform in SPESS, or at sea level? Pa is the ambient pressure, so l need to know what numbers we want. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)15:39 No.22072624 >>22072559 Could we take the integral from space (0 Pa) to 1 atm (101,325 Pa)? Well, sea level is good enough; since that's where we'd take off from, O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)15:43 No.22072662 >>22072559 Calculate for both, it shouldn't be a big problem. Kerbal space program: Eberron edition. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:02 No.22072976 >>22072867 Alright, so the first variable in the thrust equation we haven't figured out is exhaust velocity, Ve. >Ve = SQRT[ (2 × k / (k - 1)) × (R' × Tc / M) × (1 - (Pe / Pc)^((k-1)/k))] k is, again, 1.33, R' is 8,134, Tc is the chamber temperature, so about 470 Kelvin, M is the molecular weight of steam, so about 18, Pe is equal to Pa (assuming maximum efficiency), so that's about 0.1 MPa, Pc is the chamber pressure, so about 1.7 MPa... O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:15 No.22073198 >>22072976 Alright, so exhaust velocity equals 1110. Next, finally, the thrust! F = q x Ve + (Pe - Pa) x Ae q is the mass flow, so (asuming steam or water isn't building up in the boiler) that's equal to the amount of water coming out of the decanter - about 19 kg/s. Ve, which I just worked out (assuming I didn't screw anything up), is 1,110 m/s. Pa and Pe are the same, assuming maximum efficiency, so they cancel out and I guess I didn't even need to work out exit area at all, goddamnit, because it's being multiplied by zero. In that case, assuming I didn't screw anything up, the thrust of a Decanter rocket is q * Ve, or 1110 m/s times 19 kg/s. So that's about... (drumroll please).. Twenty-one kilonewtons. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:21 No.22073282 >>22073198 Alright, so. What does this mean we can get into orbit? Assuming your fantasy setting is taking place on a spherical planet pretty much similar to our own, and assuming you're launching pretty close to the Equator, and assuming your day is 24 hours, you need about 10 km/s of Delta-V to get into orbit. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:30 No.22073443 >>22073198 So it gives us 1:1 thrust to lift ratio for a rocket that weights 2tonnes? And it only gets better the higher we get? And we don't need to pack this s--- with fuel but we can basically pack 2 tonnes of cargo into this s---? 20 people and some stuff to keep them alive up there? I'm sure NASA would love it. Not to mention you can strap on more decanters without big change to rocket's mass. S---'s insane. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:31 No.22073444 >>22073282 However, because calculating delta-v requires taking the log of the wet mass/dry mass, and since there's no difference between wet mass and dry mass, this is pretty much useless. However, because we can burn literally forever without running out of fuel, then what this means is that as long as we can lift it off the launchpad, we can get it into orbit. Thus, anything weighing less than 21 kN can be put into any orbit we want, as long as we're willing to wait a bit. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:36 No.22073525 >>22073443 Oh, it gets even better. Three words: Bag. Of. Holding. By abusing extradimensional spaces, we carry all of our cargo in bags of holding. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:37 No.22073546 >>22073444 >>22073525 So placing these into an artificed vessel that had endure elements on it marked up to +30 spell levels, and then with the proper supplies, and contingency spells, 300 decanters of water could theoretically propel a 300 ton self contained atmospheric, false gravity supplied biodome into space. With that in mind, that would be a f--- awesome setting. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:37 No.22073547 >>22073525 Fill the bag of holding to maximum capacity from the decanter of endless water. Open the bag at the same time you open the decanter. 21kN is for babies. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:38 No.22073552 Okay. How much will this spaceship cost, and at what level will a party be able to buy and make one? O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:41 No.22073596 >>22073525 So, the rocket's got 21 kN of thrust, right? And it needs to be accelerating at about 10 m/s upwards to actually get off the ground, so it can only weigh about 2100 kg. Now, let's assume 10% of that is taken up by structural s---, rockety stuff, all that jazz. That means we can carry 1890 kilograms worth of cargo. A single Type IV bag of holding weighs 27.2 kg, so a single Decanter can carry a bit less than a maximum 70 bags of holding. In other words, by filling our cargo with Bags of Holding, the rocket can actually carry FIFTY-TWO TONS of cargo in the bags. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:43 No.22073627 >>22073552 Alrighty. A Decanter costs about 9000 gp. How much does a flaming weapon or portal to the Elemental Plane of Fire cost? O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:44 No.22073637 >>22073627 >portal to the Elemental Plane of Fire What, you mean like a Gate? Going off the 3.5e PHB (or was it the DM's Guide?), getting a wizard to cast a level 9 spell for you is certainly going to cost more than 9,000 gp. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:44 No.22073642 >>22073627 Moderate evocation; CL 10th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor and flame blade, flame strike, or fireball; Price +1 bonus. So to place that onto a weapon, roughly around 2000 gold. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:47 No.22073692 >>22073642 We have no idea how hot that burns, so let's say we need five of those to get it this hot for a nice round ten thousand. How much would the mundane ironworking for the pressure vessel cost, do you think? We're currently at 19000 gold for the magical components of a single Decanter engine. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:44 No.22073638 >>22073596 In other words, by spending a fuckton on Bags of Holding, the ship can actually have twice the payload capacity of the Space Shuttle. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:51 No.22073742 All right, now let's assume this is a standard structure we are pushing into orbit, and to survive the hazardous ascent, it needs to be able to withstand exit and re-entry of the atmosphere. How would this be approached, and what would it's final weight, cost, and volume be for life support/storage. We will assume that using magic dickery, that a trick to supply artificial gravity has been supplied and implemented. >>22073692 That's just for one thermopile class heater though. In my opinion, it would be much easier to use a ramped up version of Heat metal and then use a metal sheath for the decanter, and then monitor the heat using a cold junction to the sheath and wire running to the inside from the outside to make a Thermocouple, and then use a magical circuit to display what it's temperature is to monitor it's efficiency and therefore prevent engine damage. S---, that's another issue, the decanter can still be destroyed. How will we shield out heating element from the outside as well? O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:55 No.22073819 >>22073742 >Hazardous ascent Here's the thing: Thanks to our literally infinite supply of thrust, we don't actually have to go up at any normal acceleration. For most of the time in-atmosphere, our ascent could very well take place at practically walking pace. As long as we're willing to sacrifice the time it takes to wait for this thing to fully accelerate, it can be as sedate as it needs to be as long as it can acquire sideways acceleration while overcoming gravity. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:52 No.22073763 >>22073547 It's too bad you can't place Bags of Holding full of endless water inside Bags of Holding. That output would be... yeah, I'm not even going to pretend to know. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:55 No.22073825 >>22073742 I should also state I know that thermopile would be the wrong term in this statement, but it's the nearest thing I can think of to put this into comparison for myself. >>22073765 I'm not sure if that offers protection in degrees, or just + to saves. I know if we used crystal as a heat shield, it should last long enough but that would shatter too easily. Ceramic exists in d and d, right? >>22073763 You COULD however, rig that up to use Mercury. OH S---. For that matter, using artifice, would it be possible to make a Decanter of endless Mercury? F--- 21kV. 1SG IS FOR P------. Mind you, druids would throw a S--- FIT, but... O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:57 No.22073856 >>22073819 Well, that's pretty damn awesome, but with how the Decanter works, wouldn't be efficient unless you made it not work on stages, but on a 0-100% scale, and as far as I know, there is no way to control a decanter in that manner. If you COULD though, HOW would you do it? Verbally? Could you rig up a circuit that could electronically control it? 4-20mA? O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:00 No.22073904 >>22073856 Valve. Keep it on Geyser all the time, and control how much water goes to the boiler and how much is destroyed or vented or teleported or shoved back into the Elemental Plane of Water or something by varying how open the valve is. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:09 No.22074076 >>22073904 Good idea. Turn the decanter instead from an engine into the supply, and then Throttle with a valve. That can be controlled with analog, if not simply by hand inside the vessel. Better part of that is, if we go about the design right, multiple valves can be used to create a high grade exhaust, and then shielding the elements is no longer an issue, just making sure the piping for this design is able to withstand the pressure the decanters will be supplying, and then if it can handle shifts in velocity. F---, should I start drawing a PID of this? /tg/, are we really making a spelljammer without making a spelljammer? O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:10 No.22074087 >>22073742 Here's what you'd need for life support: >Bottle of Air- the bottle is always completely full of fresh air. With a pump, you could pressurize the entire capsule from one. Costs 7,250 gp and weighs 2 Ibs. >Some way to temperature-control the capsule (any ideas?) >Bag of Holding full of food (2,500 gp, 15 lb) >Pipe going to the Decanter to provide endless fresh water on demand There. Everything you need to live for quite a while, for about 10000 gp. If you want enough food to last forever, splurge on a Sustaining Spoon (enough gruel for four people, forever- 5400 gp). O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:11 No.22074111 >>22074076 So far we've determined that for the magical component of the engine and for life support, you need 29000 gp. How much will we need for the hull, navigation instruments, and the various engine plumbing? O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:13 No.22074142 >>22074030 I must admit, I laughed. Also, bottle of air. When it space it would become a perfect engine. In fact it isn't said if it has any limits on how much air it can produce - so in vacuum it would be a problem to make it LESS effective to not kill the crew with acceleration. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:13 No.22074149 >>22074087 Isn't there an item that simplifies all that? A Ring of Sustenance or somesuch? O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:16 No.22074202 >>22074087 A hero's feast table or a table enchanted with create food would also work. But not a pipe from the decanter. We don't want to offer any sort way that an engine failure will f--- over the survival of the adventurers. A separate tank with another decanter would work fine. >>22074111 Engine plumbing cost depends all on the metal used. Adamantine would be what I would recommend, but that would be almost impossible to get in the quantity that would be required. Elven steel might work, Dwarven crafted Dark iron definitely would. Artificing the pipes to withstand heavy and sudden changed of pressure and temperature. Navigation would rely on divination magic. No need to complicate this with mechanical instruments when Divining position is accurate, and easy to come by. The hull is still in question. Using Rope trick to form individual rooms, and suppying those rooms as living quarters/storage would simplify things tremendously. They couldn't have water piped to them, but with an item that creates water on demand, cheapens that up as well. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:18 No.22074225 >>22074202 I based the engine calculations off of the pressures and temperatures of a mundane locomotive boiler. We will probably not need any especially fancy metals. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:18 No.22074230 If we make the pipes out of Mithril or Adamantium, they could survive any kind of pressure we put it through without breaking, but that would increase the cost by a lot. That said, if we had some high end dwarf forged steel it should be able to survive this. Also, isn't their an item that costs very little gold but has a permanent endure the elements(which lets you be okay in incredibly hot or cold environments) that would allow you to be in space without dying from cold? Or we could just have a heatsink setup to the steam pipes that could bring warmth back to the cockpit. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:18 No.22074241 O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:20 No.22074267 >>22074230 Warming the cockpit isn't a problem. The issue with space is /cooling/ the cockpit. >>22074241 I'll look in the ultimate srd for glacial spells. I know there's on in there that focuses on climate control. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:23 No.22074311 >>22074241 Boom. Chill Metal Transmutation (Cold] Level: Drd 2 Components: V, S, DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Target: Duration: 7 rounds Saving Throw: Will negates (object) Spell Resistance: Yes (object) equipment of one creature per two levels, no two which can be more than ft. apart; or 25 lb. of metal/level, none of more than 30 ft. away from any the rest can Chill metal makes metal extremely cold. Unattended, nonmagical metal gets no saving throw. Magical metal is allowed a saving throw against the spell. An item in a creature's possession uses the creature's saving throw bonus unless its own is higher. A creature takes cold damage if its equipment is chilled. It takes full damage if its armor is affected or if it is holding, touching, wearing, or carrying metal weighing one-fifth of its weight. The creature takes minimum damage (1 point or 2 points; see the table) if it's not wearing metal armor and the metal that it's carrying weighs less than one-fifth of its weight. On the first round of the spell, the metal becomes chilly and uncomfortable to touch but deals no damage. The same effect also occurs on the last round of the spell's duration. During the second (and also the next-to-last) round, icy coldness causes pain and damage. In the third, fourth, and fifth rounds, the metal is freezing cold, causing more damage, as shown on the table below. Round Metal Temperature Damage 1 Cold None 2 lcy 1d4 points 3-5 Freezing 2d4 points 6 lcy 1d4 points 7 Cold None Any heat intense enough to damage the creature negates cold damage from the spell (and vice versa) on a point-for-point basis. Underwater, chill metal deals no damage, but ice immediately forms around the affected metal, making it more buoyant. Chill metal counters and dispels heat metal. There's a Ivl 2 spell that would easily do it. It's ambient and not direct, though. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:22 No.22074294 Please tell me someone's archived this thread. The Greyhawk Air and Space Administration cannot be forgotten. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:21 No.22074281 >>22074199 Does anybody have the character wealth/level table? I want to figure out how feasible building this s--- is. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:23 No.22074317 >>22074281 PC Level* Wealth 21,000 gp 33,000 gp 4 6,000 gp 5 10,500 gp 6 16.000 gp 7 23,500 gp 8 33,000 gp 9 46,000 gp 10 62,000 11 82,000 gp 12 108,000 gp 13 140,000 gp 14 185,000 gp 15 240,000 gp 16 315,000 gp 17 410,000 gp 18 530,000 gp 19 685,000 gp 20 880,000 gp O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:23 No.22074319 What about really long voyages? Would it be cheaper to use Suspended Animation, or would a system involving timed release of Flesh to Stone and Stone to Flesh potions be superior? O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:26 No.22074365 >>22074317 So so far, everything we've calculated is well within the reach of a single Level 9 PC, or an adventuring party of four Level 6 PCs. If your party pooled its funds, you guys could f--- off into space by Level 6. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:29 No.22074410 >>22074365 If the group had a master as well, it raises the cost, but also raises the masterwork bonus. A quality ship would be about level 13 for a single PC, or a group of 4 Ivl 9's. The time would take would be roughly around a few months to complete. assuming all party members do nothing but work on the ship as a craft check. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:42 No.22074626 This is so perfect for my campaign, Itg/, you have no idea. I'm anticipating my party f------ off into the stars soon (getting into orbit won't be an issue for them because the spacefaring Dorfs are paying them to quell a slave riot that's been delaying the reconstruction of the moon). I've got a few ideas for crazy places they'll end up, the most developed of which is a shipwreck planet inhabited by rednecks. Every year they have a coming-of-age ritual in which young rednecks try to cobble together semi-spaceworthy Spelljammers out of the remains of the many derelict ships on the surface of the planet, and then race. In that spirit, what are some delightfully ghetto ways to make space travel even cheaper, with no regards to safety? O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:46 No.22074692 CURRENT PARTS LIST FOR s.S. SPESSWIZARD: Engine: (may use more than one) >Decanter of Endless Water (9000 gp) >Five or so flaming items (10000 gp) >Elven-steel tank and nozzle >Valve and a way to get rid of excess water for thrust control >Gimbals for thrust vectoring Cost of magical components: 19000 per engine Cost of material components: ? Crew Area: >At least one Bottle of Air (7250 gp) >Air Pump >Rope Trick rooms >Rings of Sustenance: 1/crew member (2500 gp) >Rod of Heat Metal and Rod of Cool Metal Structural: >Elven-steel airtight hull >Feather Fall spell for re-entry Navigation: >A good telescope and maybe a golem. Speaking as a KSP player, some way to calculate velocity would also be really nice. >Assorted gubbins for engine control O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:48 No.22074749 >>22074626 F--- life support; go for Protection from Elements and huffing out of a Bottle of Air. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:50 No.22074780 >>22074749 Is there a DC for environmental hazards from space? O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:53 No.22074819 >>22074780 Cold beyond extreme? Absolute zero? That's in a book somewhere, I'm sure. Constant exposure to radiation? Random space debris hitting you at extremely high velocities? Not sure about those. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:54 No.22074831 >>22074819 Unsurprisingly, 4e is not a treasure trove for matters like this. I'll see if I can rig up something from 3.x. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:55 No.22074842 >>22074819 The real issue isn't cold. Space is an insulator; you will cool down if you're in it and emitting no temperature, but it'll take a while. Your real issue is overheating- direct, unfiltered sunlight is brutal, and you'll slowly overheat just from your body's waste heat. Vacuum's an insulator. Mostly you've got to worry about suffocation, low pressure, and heat damage. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:57 No.22074879 >>22074819 Space isn't actually cold, it has no temperature. The vacuum does other bad s--- to you though. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:57 No.22074884 >>22074842 >>22074842 >>22074842 Of those, which should even have Fortitude saves, and which should just deal direct damage? O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:52 No.22074817 >>22074692 Fun Fact: At the highest weight which still allowed it to take off from Earth, the ship could reach Alpha Centauri in just 3.5 years shiptime (accounting for time dilation.) O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:57 No.22074873 So, /tg./ We've successfully designed a goddamn spacecraft which is within the limits of a heroic-tier party's wealth. My question: What do we call it? I propose the TGS Super Soaker. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)18:00 No.22074937 O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)18:01 No.22074950 >>22074873 TGS? >>22074937 TeeGee Ship. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)18:05 No.22075007 O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)18:06 No.22075022 >>22074988 Well, what would you suggest? The Gygax-Class SPACE WIZARDS? >>22074873 Grognard-class spaceship. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)18:19 No.22075181 >>22071894 Why not use an radiator to pump heated medium into the vaporisation chamber, the heat of which is supplied by a fire elemental at the other end of the radiator? With enough surface area, proper valve timing, and a large enough elemental you could cause ambient vaporisation in the main chamber as the propellant passes through, creating a high-pressure steam rocket with infinite operating time. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)18:36 No.22075360 >>22073525 Or hook it up to a portal at station control, with a big enough portal you can move anything into orbit from a tiny rocket O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)18:48 No.22075550 >>22075407 The real question is: How do we arm ourselves? O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)18:51 No.22075595 >>22075550 "Photon Torpedoes" - Wands of Magic Missile "Phasers" - Disintegrate. For ship-to-ground weapons, bring along a Bag of Holding full of something heavy and heat-resistant. Dump them out of the bag while in orbit. Bingo, 250 Ibs of kinetic death. File: 1352174471636.jpg-(1.62 MB, 1600x900, City 341.jpg) O Has anybody seen this kind of thing somewhere? Anonymous 11/05/12(Mon)23:01 No.21451889 You know what's a genre I haven't seen before? Hard science fantasy. Sort of a combination of your typical heavy-magic 3.5 setting and a hard-science one. Instead of spelljamming and crystal spheres, vast rockets powered by Decanters of Endless Water and fire-elemental steam boilers bridge the trillion-mile gulf between stars, while the crew lies frozen in Stone to Flesh suspended animation. Huge space elevators built of iron trusses and guy wires stretch to low orbit, carefully distributing all of the crushing load onto thousands of specially placed Immovable Rods. Archmage Galileo Galilei invents the telescope, and immediately uses it for line-of-sight teleportation to the Moon. The world is threatened by terrible weapons powered not by nuclear fission, but by placing linked Rings of Teleport in a vaccuum and letting an object fall until it reaches relativistic velocities. Sort of like Dungeonpunk-meets-Heinlein.](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/002/027/783/ccd.png)
![O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)14:16 No.22071714 Fun Statistics: A steam rocket powered by a Decanter of Endless Water and heated to the operating temperatures of most steam engines would produce 27 kN of thrust, an exhaust velocity of 1450 m/s, and a specific impulse of infinity. A single Decanter would be able to lift anything less than a ton into space. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)14:30 No.22071894 >>22071714 And that is my Artificer's next project. What temperatures do most steam engines usually operate at? I kind of doubt that the Cauldron of Brewing would achieve it? http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/c-d/cauldron-of-brewing >Hot enough to boil salt water. Let's assume that salt water is the highest concentration of sodium chloride soluble by water, or Brine. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)14:36 No.22071951 >>22071894 Those were pretty sketchy calculations at the time I did them, and I have no real faith in the accuracy of that thrust number. Here's the math I used: http://www.braeunig.us/space/propuls.htm http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/rktthsum.html Can't figure out what number I used for the heat of a steam boiler, but apparently the most a standard industrial-revolution steam boiler could withstand was 250 psi, so the temperature should be calculatable with the Ideal Gas Law. (If you make the vessel out of adamantine or riverrine or mithril or something, then there should be no real pressure limit.) O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)14:40 No.22071981 File: 1355686835928.gif-(3 KB, 250x390, Rocket Thrust Image 01.gif) >>22071951 Alright, so the law for thrust of a rocket engine is F= qVe + (Pe- Pa) * Ae Where q is the mass flow, Ve is their ejection speed, Pe is the pressure of the exhaust gasses, Ae is the area of exit, and Pa is the pressure of the ambient atmosphere. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)14:46 No.22072033 >>22071981 Now, we'll assume that this Decanter is on full blast, and we'll assume that the rocket is built in such a way that pressure inside the chamber is constant, so we know that the mass flow g is 18.93 kg/s O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)14:48 No.22072046 >>22072033 Furthermore, we will use that steam-engine figure given earlier and assume that Pc is equal to 250 psi, or 1.721 megaPascals. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)14:57 No.22072138 >>22072123 It's the nozzle factors that are really killing me. I'm not a rocketry expert, and l'm having trouble figuring out what nozzle design I should assume- because, obviously, propellant/oxidizer mix isn't a factor, nozzle designs are really the only important factor. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)15:09 No.22072249 >>22072046 Ah! Found a superheated- steam table. If pressure is 1.721 MPa, then the temperature will be about 200 degrees C. So that gives us Tc as well. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)15:10 No.22072264 >>22072249 And the Specific Heat Ratio of steam is 1.33. That gives me what I need to figure out the idea nozzle factors. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)15:13 No.22072293 Doesn't the rocket still need fuel to turn the endless water into steam? O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)15:14 No.22072303 >>22072293 Cauldron of brewing bro. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)15:14 No.22072311 >>22072303 Or a flaming weapon. Or a portal to the Elemental Plane of Fire. D&D Magic gives no s---- about conservation of mass/energy. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)15:21 No.22072400 >>22072264 Alright, so rounding to 1.7 MPa of chamber pressure and 200 degrees C of chamber temperature... at the throat of the nozzle, the pressure is about 1 MPa and the temperature is about 172 degrees C. Almost to the point where I can work out the thrust. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)15:25 No.22072443 >>22072400 Okay, so now to work out the ideal area of the nozzle. The molecular weight of steam is 18.02, and the area of the nozzle throat is given by > At = (q / Pt) x SQRT[ (R' × Tt) / (M × k) ] O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)15:32 No.22072516 >>22072443 So, the area of the throat for the optimal nozzle for this configuration is about At = (19/1000000)*SQRT((8314 * 450)( 18*1.33) or 0.0075 square meters. Just a few equations to crunch and we'll have the thrust. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)15:35 No.22072559 >>22072516 The hot gases must now be expanded in the diverging section of the nozzle to obtain maximum thrust. The Mach number at the nozzle exit is given by Nm^2 = (2/ (k - 1)) × [(Pc/ Pa)^((k-1)/k) - 1] Do we want to calculate how well this engine will perform in SPESS, or at sea level? Pa is the ambient pressure, so l need to know what numbers we want. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)15:39 No.22072624 >>22072559 Could we take the integral from space (0 Pa) to 1 atm (101,325 Pa)? Well, sea level is good enough; since that's where we'd take off from, O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)15:43 No.22072662 >>22072559 Calculate for both, it shouldn't be a big problem. Kerbal space program: Eberron edition. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:02 No.22072976 >>22072867 Alright, so the first variable in the thrust equation we haven't figured out is exhaust velocity, Ve. >Ve = SQRT[ (2 × k / (k - 1)) × (R' × Tc / M) × (1 - (Pe / Pc)^((k-1)/k))] k is, again, 1.33, R' is 8,134, Tc is the chamber temperature, so about 470 Kelvin, M is the molecular weight of steam, so about 18, Pe is equal to Pa (assuming maximum efficiency), so that's about 0.1 MPa, Pc is the chamber pressure, so about 1.7 MPa... O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:15 No.22073198 >>22072976 Alright, so exhaust velocity equals 1110. Next, finally, the thrust! F = q x Ve + (Pe - Pa) x Ae q is the mass flow, so (asuming steam or water isn't building up in the boiler) that's equal to the amount of water coming out of the decanter - about 19 kg/s. Ve, which I just worked out (assuming I didn't screw anything up), is 1,110 m/s. Pa and Pe are the same, assuming maximum efficiency, so they cancel out and I guess I didn't even need to work out exit area at all, goddamnit, because it's being multiplied by zero. In that case, assuming I didn't screw anything up, the thrust of a Decanter rocket is q * Ve, or 1110 m/s times 19 kg/s. So that's about... (drumroll please).. Twenty-one kilonewtons. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:21 No.22073282 >>22073198 Alright, so. What does this mean we can get into orbit? Assuming your fantasy setting is taking place on a spherical planet pretty much similar to our own, and assuming you're launching pretty close to the Equator, and assuming your day is 24 hours, you need about 10 km/s of Delta-V to get into orbit. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:30 No.22073443 >>22073198 So it gives us 1:1 thrust to lift ratio for a rocket that weights 2tonnes? And it only gets better the higher we get? And we don't need to pack this s--- with fuel but we can basically pack 2 tonnes of cargo into this s---? 20 people and some stuff to keep them alive up there? I'm sure NASA would love it. Not to mention you can strap on more decanters without big change to rocket's mass. S---'s insane. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:31 No.22073444 >>22073282 However, because calculating delta-v requires taking the log of the wet mass/dry mass, and since there's no difference between wet mass and dry mass, this is pretty much useless. However, because we can burn literally forever without running out of fuel, then what this means is that as long as we can lift it off the launchpad, we can get it into orbit. Thus, anything weighing less than 21 kN can be put into any orbit we want, as long as we're willing to wait a bit. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:36 No.22073525 >>22073443 Oh, it gets even better. Three words: Bag. Of. Holding. By abusing extradimensional spaces, we carry all of our cargo in bags of holding. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:37 No.22073546 >>22073444 >>22073525 So placing these into an artificed vessel that had endure elements on it marked up to +30 spell levels, and then with the proper supplies, and contingency spells, 300 decanters of water could theoretically propel a 300 ton self contained atmospheric, false gravity supplied biodome into space. With that in mind, that would be a f--- awesome setting. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:37 No.22073547 >>22073525 Fill the bag of holding to maximum capacity from the decanter of endless water. Open the bag at the same time you open the decanter. 21kN is for babies. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:38 No.22073552 Okay. How much will this spaceship cost, and at what level will a party be able to buy and make one? O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:41 No.22073596 >>22073525 So, the rocket's got 21 kN of thrust, right? And it needs to be accelerating at about 10 m/s upwards to actually get off the ground, so it can only weigh about 2100 kg. Now, let's assume 10% of that is taken up by structural s---, rockety stuff, all that jazz. That means we can carry 1890 kilograms worth of cargo. A single Type IV bag of holding weighs 27.2 kg, so a single Decanter can carry a bit less than a maximum 70 bags of holding. In other words, by filling our cargo with Bags of Holding, the rocket can actually carry FIFTY-TWO TONS of cargo in the bags. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:43 No.22073627 >>22073552 Alrighty. A Decanter costs about 9000 gp. How much does a flaming weapon or portal to the Elemental Plane of Fire cost? O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:44 No.22073637 >>22073627 >portal to the Elemental Plane of Fire What, you mean like a Gate? Going off the 3.5e PHB (or was it the DM's Guide?), getting a wizard to cast a level 9 spell for you is certainly going to cost more than 9,000 gp. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:44 No.22073642 >>22073627 Moderate evocation; CL 10th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor and flame blade, flame strike, or fireball; Price +1 bonus. So to place that onto a weapon, roughly around 2000 gold. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:47 No.22073692 >>22073642 We have no idea how hot that burns, so let's say we need five of those to get it this hot for a nice round ten thousand. How much would the mundane ironworking for the pressure vessel cost, do you think? We're currently at 19000 gold for the magical components of a single Decanter engine. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:44 No.22073638 >>22073596 In other words, by spending a fuckton on Bags of Holding, the ship can actually have twice the payload capacity of the Space Shuttle. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:51 No.22073742 All right, now let's assume this is a standard structure we are pushing into orbit, and to survive the hazardous ascent, it needs to be able to withstand exit and re-entry of the atmosphere. How would this be approached, and what would it's final weight, cost, and volume be for life support/storage. We will assume that using magic dickery, that a trick to supply artificial gravity has been supplied and implemented. >>22073692 That's just for one thermopile class heater though. In my opinion, it would be much easier to use a ramped up version of Heat metal and then use a metal sheath for the decanter, and then monitor the heat using a cold junction to the sheath and wire running to the inside from the outside to make a Thermocouple, and then use a magical circuit to display what it's temperature is to monitor it's efficiency and therefore prevent engine damage. S---, that's another issue, the decanter can still be destroyed. How will we shield out heating element from the outside as well? O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:55 No.22073819 >>22073742 >Hazardous ascent Here's the thing: Thanks to our literally infinite supply of thrust, we don't actually have to go up at any normal acceleration. For most of the time in-atmosphere, our ascent could very well take place at practically walking pace. As long as we're willing to sacrifice the time it takes to wait for this thing to fully accelerate, it can be as sedate as it needs to be as long as it can acquire sideways acceleration while overcoming gravity. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:52 No.22073763 >>22073547 It's too bad you can't place Bags of Holding full of endless water inside Bags of Holding. That output would be... yeah, I'm not even going to pretend to know. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:55 No.22073825 >>22073742 I should also state I know that thermopile would be the wrong term in this statement, but it's the nearest thing I can think of to put this into comparison for myself. >>22073765 I'm not sure if that offers protection in degrees, or just + to saves. I know if we used crystal as a heat shield, it should last long enough but that would shatter too easily. Ceramic exists in d and d, right? >>22073763 You COULD however, rig that up to use Mercury. OH S---. For that matter, using artifice, would it be possible to make a Decanter of endless Mercury? F--- 21kV. 1SG IS FOR P------. Mind you, druids would throw a S--- FIT, but... O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)16:57 No.22073856 >>22073819 Well, that's pretty damn awesome, but with how the Decanter works, wouldn't be efficient unless you made it not work on stages, but on a 0-100% scale, and as far as I know, there is no way to control a decanter in that manner. If you COULD though, HOW would you do it? Verbally? Could you rig up a circuit that could electronically control it? 4-20mA? O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:00 No.22073904 >>22073856 Valve. Keep it on Geyser all the time, and control how much water goes to the boiler and how much is destroyed or vented or teleported or shoved back into the Elemental Plane of Water or something by varying how open the valve is. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:09 No.22074076 >>22073904 Good idea. Turn the decanter instead from an engine into the supply, and then Throttle with a valve. That can be controlled with analog, if not simply by hand inside the vessel. Better part of that is, if we go about the design right, multiple valves can be used to create a high grade exhaust, and then shielding the elements is no longer an issue, just making sure the piping for this design is able to withstand the pressure the decanters will be supplying, and then if it can handle shifts in velocity. F---, should I start drawing a PID of this? /tg/, are we really making a spelljammer without making a spelljammer? O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:10 No.22074087 >>22073742 Here's what you'd need for life support: >Bottle of Air- the bottle is always completely full of fresh air. With a pump, you could pressurize the entire capsule from one. Costs 7,250 gp and weighs 2 Ibs. >Some way to temperature-control the capsule (any ideas?) >Bag of Holding full of food (2,500 gp, 15 lb) >Pipe going to the Decanter to provide endless fresh water on demand There. Everything you need to live for quite a while, for about 10000 gp. If you want enough food to last forever, splurge on a Sustaining Spoon (enough gruel for four people, forever- 5400 gp). O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:11 No.22074111 >>22074076 So far we've determined that for the magical component of the engine and for life support, you need 29000 gp. How much will we need for the hull, navigation instruments, and the various engine plumbing? O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:13 No.22074142 >>22074030 I must admit, I laughed. Also, bottle of air. When it space it would become a perfect engine. In fact it isn't said if it has any limits on how much air it can produce - so in vacuum it would be a problem to make it LESS effective to not kill the crew with acceleration. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:13 No.22074149 >>22074087 Isn't there an item that simplifies all that? A Ring of Sustenance or somesuch? O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:16 No.22074202 >>22074087 A hero's feast table or a table enchanted with create food would also work. But not a pipe from the decanter. We don't want to offer any sort way that an engine failure will f--- over the survival of the adventurers. A separate tank with another decanter would work fine. >>22074111 Engine plumbing cost depends all on the metal used. Adamantine would be what I would recommend, but that would be almost impossible to get in the quantity that would be required. Elven steel might work, Dwarven crafted Dark iron definitely would. Artificing the pipes to withstand heavy and sudden changed of pressure and temperature. Navigation would rely on divination magic. No need to complicate this with mechanical instruments when Divining position is accurate, and easy to come by. The hull is still in question. Using Rope trick to form individual rooms, and suppying those rooms as living quarters/storage would simplify things tremendously. They couldn't have water piped to them, but with an item that creates water on demand, cheapens that up as well. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:18 No.22074225 >>22074202 I based the engine calculations off of the pressures and temperatures of a mundane locomotive boiler. We will probably not need any especially fancy metals. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:18 No.22074230 If we make the pipes out of Mithril or Adamantium, they could survive any kind of pressure we put it through without breaking, but that would increase the cost by a lot. That said, if we had some high end dwarf forged steel it should be able to survive this. Also, isn't their an item that costs very little gold but has a permanent endure the elements(which lets you be okay in incredibly hot or cold environments) that would allow you to be in space without dying from cold? Or we could just have a heatsink setup to the steam pipes that could bring warmth back to the cockpit. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:18 No.22074241 O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:20 No.22074267 >>22074230 Warming the cockpit isn't a problem. The issue with space is /cooling/ the cockpit. >>22074241 I'll look in the ultimate srd for glacial spells. I know there's on in there that focuses on climate control. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:23 No.22074311 >>22074241 Boom. Chill Metal Transmutation (Cold] Level: Drd 2 Components: V, S, DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Target: Duration: 7 rounds Saving Throw: Will negates (object) Spell Resistance: Yes (object) equipment of one creature per two levels, no two which can be more than ft. apart; or 25 lb. of metal/level, none of more than 30 ft. away from any the rest can Chill metal makes metal extremely cold. Unattended, nonmagical metal gets no saving throw. Magical metal is allowed a saving throw against the spell. An item in a creature's possession uses the creature's saving throw bonus unless its own is higher. A creature takes cold damage if its equipment is chilled. It takes full damage if its armor is affected or if it is holding, touching, wearing, or carrying metal weighing one-fifth of its weight. The creature takes minimum damage (1 point or 2 points; see the table) if it's not wearing metal armor and the metal that it's carrying weighs less than one-fifth of its weight. On the first round of the spell, the metal becomes chilly and uncomfortable to touch but deals no damage. The same effect also occurs on the last round of the spell's duration. During the second (and also the next-to-last) round, icy coldness causes pain and damage. In the third, fourth, and fifth rounds, the metal is freezing cold, causing more damage, as shown on the table below. Round Metal Temperature Damage 1 Cold None 2 lcy 1d4 points 3-5 Freezing 2d4 points 6 lcy 1d4 points 7 Cold None Any heat intense enough to damage the creature negates cold damage from the spell (and vice versa) on a point-for-point basis. Underwater, chill metal deals no damage, but ice immediately forms around the affected metal, making it more buoyant. Chill metal counters and dispels heat metal. There's a Ivl 2 spell that would easily do it. It's ambient and not direct, though. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:22 No.22074294 Please tell me someone's archived this thread. The Greyhawk Air and Space Administration cannot be forgotten. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:21 No.22074281 >>22074199 Does anybody have the character wealth/level table? I want to figure out how feasible building this s--- is. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:23 No.22074317 >>22074281 PC Level* Wealth 21,000 gp 33,000 gp 4 6,000 gp 5 10,500 gp 6 16.000 gp 7 23,500 gp 8 33,000 gp 9 46,000 gp 10 62,000 11 82,000 gp 12 108,000 gp 13 140,000 gp 14 185,000 gp 15 240,000 gp 16 315,000 gp 17 410,000 gp 18 530,000 gp 19 685,000 gp 20 880,000 gp O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:23 No.22074319 What about really long voyages? Would it be cheaper to use Suspended Animation, or would a system involving timed release of Flesh to Stone and Stone to Flesh potions be superior? O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:26 No.22074365 >>22074317 So so far, everything we've calculated is well within the reach of a single Level 9 PC, or an adventuring party of four Level 6 PCs. If your party pooled its funds, you guys could f--- off into space by Level 6. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:29 No.22074410 >>22074365 If the group had a master as well, it raises the cost, but also raises the masterwork bonus. A quality ship would be about level 13 for a single PC, or a group of 4 Ivl 9's. The time would take would be roughly around a few months to complete. assuming all party members do nothing but work on the ship as a craft check. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:42 No.22074626 This is so perfect for my campaign, Itg/, you have no idea. I'm anticipating my party f------ off into the stars soon (getting into orbit won't be an issue for them because the spacefaring Dorfs are paying them to quell a slave riot that's been delaying the reconstruction of the moon). I've got a few ideas for crazy places they'll end up, the most developed of which is a shipwreck planet inhabited by rednecks. Every year they have a coming-of-age ritual in which young rednecks try to cobble together semi-spaceworthy Spelljammers out of the remains of the many derelict ships on the surface of the planet, and then race. In that spirit, what are some delightfully ghetto ways to make space travel even cheaper, with no regards to safety? O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:46 No.22074692 CURRENT PARTS LIST FOR s.S. SPESSWIZARD: Engine: (may use more than one) >Decanter of Endless Water (9000 gp) >Five or so flaming items (10000 gp) >Elven-steel tank and nozzle >Valve and a way to get rid of excess water for thrust control >Gimbals for thrust vectoring Cost of magical components: 19000 per engine Cost of material components: ? Crew Area: >At least one Bottle of Air (7250 gp) >Air Pump >Rope Trick rooms >Rings of Sustenance: 1/crew member (2500 gp) >Rod of Heat Metal and Rod of Cool Metal Structural: >Elven-steel airtight hull >Feather Fall spell for re-entry Navigation: >A good telescope and maybe a golem. Speaking as a KSP player, some way to calculate velocity would also be really nice. >Assorted gubbins for engine control O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:48 No.22074749 >>22074626 F--- life support; go for Protection from Elements and huffing out of a Bottle of Air. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:50 No.22074780 >>22074749 Is there a DC for environmental hazards from space? O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:53 No.22074819 >>22074780 Cold beyond extreme? Absolute zero? That's in a book somewhere, I'm sure. Constant exposure to radiation? Random space debris hitting you at extremely high velocities? Not sure about those. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:54 No.22074831 >>22074819 Unsurprisingly, 4e is not a treasure trove for matters like this. I'll see if I can rig up something from 3.x. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:55 No.22074842 >>22074819 The real issue isn't cold. Space is an insulator; you will cool down if you're in it and emitting no temperature, but it'll take a while. Your real issue is overheating- direct, unfiltered sunlight is brutal, and you'll slowly overheat just from your body's waste heat. Vacuum's an insulator. Mostly you've got to worry about suffocation, low pressure, and heat damage. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:57 No.22074879 >>22074819 Space isn't actually cold, it has no temperature. The vacuum does other bad s--- to you though. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:57 No.22074884 >>22074842 >>22074842 >>22074842 Of those, which should even have Fortitude saves, and which should just deal direct damage? O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:52 No.22074817 >>22074692 Fun Fact: At the highest weight which still allowed it to take off from Earth, the ship could reach Alpha Centauri in just 3.5 years shiptime (accounting for time dilation.) O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)17:57 No.22074873 So, /tg./ We've successfully designed a goddamn spacecraft which is within the limits of a heroic-tier party's wealth. My question: What do we call it? I propose the TGS Super Soaker. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)18:00 No.22074937 O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)18:01 No.22074950 >>22074873 TGS? >>22074937 TeeGee Ship. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)18:05 No.22075007 O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)18:06 No.22075022 >>22074988 Well, what would you suggest? The Gygax-Class SPACE WIZARDS? >>22074873 Grognard-class spaceship. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)18:19 No.22075181 >>22071894 Why not use an radiator to pump heated medium into the vaporisation chamber, the heat of which is supplied by a fire elemental at the other end of the radiator? With enough surface area, proper valve timing, and a large enough elemental you could cause ambient vaporisation in the main chamber as the propellant passes through, creating a high-pressure steam rocket with infinite operating time. O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)18:36 No.22075360 >>22073525 Or hook it up to a portal at station control, with a big enough portal you can move anything into orbit from a tiny rocket O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)18:48 No.22075550 >>22075407 The real question is: How do we arm ourselves? O Anonymous 12/16/12(Sun)18:51 No.22075595 >>22075550 "Photon Torpedoes" - Wands of Magic Missile "Phasers" - Disintegrate. For ship-to-ground weapons, bring along a Bag of Holding full of something heavy and heat-resistant. Dump them out of the bag while in orbit. Bingo, 250 Ibs of kinetic death. File: 1352174471636.jpg-(1.62 MB, 1600x900, City 341.jpg) O Has anybody seen this kind of thing somewhere? Anonymous 11/05/12(Mon)23:01 No.21451889 You know what's a genre I haven't seen before? Hard science fantasy. Sort of a combination of your typical heavy-magic 3.5 setting and a hard-science one. Instead of spelljamming and crystal spheres, vast rockets powered by Decanters of Endless Water and fire-elemental steam boilers bridge the trillion-mile gulf between stars, while the crew lies frozen in Stone to Flesh suspended animation. Huge space elevators built of iron trusses and guy wires stretch to low orbit, carefully distributing all of the crushing load onto thousands of specially placed Immovable Rods. Archmage Galileo Galilei invents the telescope, and immediately uses it for line-of-sight teleportation to the Moon. The world is threatened by terrible weapons powered not by nuclear fission, but by placing linked Rings of Teleport in a vaccuum and letting an object fall until it reaches relativistic velocities. Sort of like Dungeonpunk-meets-Heinlein.](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/027/783/ccd.png)
/tg/
anon recounts a crossover episode
/tg/
is being a servitor really that bad
/tg/
the seer tells you your future is to become an evil overlord
![O Anonymous 01/30/21(Sat)22:44:57 No.77258684 E >>77258795 >>77258841 >>77258846 >>77259110 >>77259185 >>77259502 >>77259512 >>77259542 >>77259547 >>77259604 >>77259675 >>77260073 >>77260098 >>77260138 >>77260167 >>77260179 >>77260305 >>77260306 >>77260343 >>77260523 >>77260555 >>77260641 >>77261441 >>77261856 >>77262808 >>77263036 >>77263262 >>77263387 >>77263425 >>77263450 >>77263495 >>77263534 >>77263918 >>77264075 >>77264864 >77265016 >>77265085 >>77265305 >>77265493 >>77267292 >>77267403 >>77267456 >>77268464 >>77269193 >>77270017 >>77270076 >>77270136 >>77270167 >>77270251 >>77270255 >>77270944 >>77270994 >>77271661 >>77271751 >77272038 >>77272096 >>77272227 >>77275864 >>77279260 >>77279328 >>77279673 >>77279829 >>77280713 >>77281875 >After reading your character's future, the seer tells them this: "It is your destiny to become the greatest enemy of the light that this world shall ever see. Never shall there even be a villain who can compare to you." How does your character react to this? Hard Mode: Provided that you accept that this is your character's destiny, how would they go about fulfilling this prophecy? O Anonymous 01/30/21(Sat)23:20:56 No.77259085 >>77259142 >>77259465 Oh boy, prophecies, those always go over wellI. I guess first order of business is to kill the seer so she doesn't go telling everyone that they should try and stop me. After that, just keep doing what I was doing, I guess. Either she's wrong, and I shouldn't worry, or she's right, and fate will figure it out. O Anonymous 01/30/21(Sat)23:25:55 No.77259142 >>77259201 >>77259213 >>77259465 >>77259085 >I guess first order of business is to kill the seer Sounds like something a great and terrible villain would do upon hearing this prophesy. O Anonymous 01/30/21(Sat)23:31:22 No.77259213 ► >>77259142 Lol this. So, SO many prophecies come to pass when the villain tries to stop it from happening. Anonymous 01/30/21(Sat)23:51:14 No.77259465 ► >>77259085 >>77259142 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdqnvxiHu_Oc [Remove] The Prophecy Hotline Watch later Share DON'T O Anonymous 01/30/21(Sat)23:30:13 No.77259201 >>77269881 >>77259142 It's just pragmatic. If this chick goes around saying l'll become a great evil, do you know how many scores of Paladins will kick down my door? Better to keep her quiet, permanently O Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)15:57:01 No.77269881 >>77259201 Yeah unless somebody starts investigating the Seer's death and finds out what her very last prophecy was. And now, you've got EVERYONE on your ass; because they think you're up to something and killed the only witness. O Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)00:43:51 No.77260167 >>77263316 >»77267587 File: Mikhailos, the redeemed p(...).jpg (58 KB, 704x824) >>77258684 (OP) "So be it then. If I cannot be a beacon of hope for this world, then I shall be a hammer that tempers its virtue. I shall perform such acts of villany that heroes will have no choice but to rise against me. I shall be the one against whom the light's mettle will be tested. The world will find unity either against me, or under me." O Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)00:57:21 No.77260305 ► >>77261652 File: Spoiler Image (74 KB, 1300x737) >>77258684 (OP) I will accept this terrible purpose. I shall become the obstacle humanity needs to overcome to reach its ultimate potential. O Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)03:54:08 No.77261652 ► >>77260305 Could it be? Is... is that... WATER!? AHHHH I'M DECOMPOSING! DON'T SAVE ME SIONA O Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)00:57:33 No.77260306 ► File: 3AF6C1F2-1926-4A54-B331-2(..).gif (2.95 MB, 500x500) >>77258684 (OP) Great, If my fate is to become a villain then I will strike a deal with fate. I WILL NOT do anything bad until I'm a king with a harem. Because it is my fate to be a villain, this must happen. Upon fate granting my wishes, I wll fulfill my end of the deal. O Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)08:03:19 No.77263387 ► >>77258684 (OP) Set about my ambition to take over the world assured that I can beat the competition. O Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)09:07:18 No.77263918 ► >>77264156 >>77258684 (OP) Question: Is the seer always right or is it some s----- carnie-bunkum? O Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)09:25:44 No.77264156 >>77263918 Traditionally it's a self-fulfilling prophecy brought on by trying to avoid it. So, malarkey, but very advanced. O Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)11:14:06 No.77265598 ► File: 1592547389859.jpg (72 KB, 520x664) My character is a believer in the absolute and unavoidable fate. That is, like, her entire thing. So her reaction will be >Well s---, gotta begin kicking puppies. I don't want to, but the stars will punish me if I disobey, and l'll end up doing it anyway. O Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)14:13:47 No.77268361 File: A9271C21B1F950F853086E570(..).jpg (19 KB, 637x358) *Smiles* Well then lets you and me get this party started. Oh yes you heard right. You keep on staring into that crystal ball of yours and give me a heads up on what's too come. In return you'll be a made ma- er lady. You want a palace? I know just the place to build one. Servants? There's a town not far from here I'm sure we can talk them into working for you. Boys? Girls? I can rustle you up some fine specimens. Whaddaya say? We have a deal? I can sweeten some more if like. O Anonymous 01/30/21(Sat)23:49:05 No.77259435 >>77259447 >>77259562 >>77271703 OK. So, what do you say to the offer of becoming my totalitarian empire's second in command? According to you, I've got the potential to become an absolute dictator. Considering my present position in life, I doubt this is plausible without my having a serious Outside Context Problem as an advantage over the rest of the world. That's where you and your ability to predict the future come in. http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/visionsofabetterworld >The decision was made. Foundation researchers finally received permission to conduct a large-scale system of exposure to SCP-028. Dozens of people would be sent through the empty storage yard every day and thoroughly interviewed and, if need be, interrogated to determine what they had learned. Every scrap of information would be recorded, analyzed and, if deemed sufficiently valuable, released to the general public. >The first month alone resulted in designs for a cold-fusion plant that could power a city the size of London indefinitely, the composition of a fertilizer that would break down harmlessly in seawater and the name of the designer of SCP-914. The Foundation, through its numerous fronts, was rapidly able to improve the quality of life of almost every human on Earth, providing the world with the technologies and knowledge it needed to become a better place. >Then James Harrison Reuben walked through the yard. >James Harrison Reuben was a cable repairman from Topeka, Kansas. A blue-collar worker in a simple, menial job. A perfect receptacle for knowledge. We sent him in with visions of new advancements and beautiful new technologies dancing through our heads. >He came out with the knowledge of how to conquer the world. O Anonymous 01/30/21(Sat)23:50:07 No.77259447 >>77259562 >>77271703 >>77259435 >It's been seven years since then. His armies and death squads march through the streets of every city in the world. Every battle is a devastating victory: how can it be otherwise, when he has perfect knowledge of all our battle plans before they even happen? It is only a matter of time before he overruns our final stronghold. >l'm sending this message out through our wide-band radio transmitter on the off chance that someone will get this message. I'm doing this because the last transmission of our intelligence operatives, before they went dark, shows that Reuben is building space ships. Hundreds of them, lined up in ranks stretching across the Florida coastline. >But I can't shake the feeling that maybe this is all part of his plan as well... O Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)14:20:55 No.77268464 ► File: the_grand_magus_by_oneste(.).jpg (170 KB, 1280x1888) >>77258684 (OP) I seek out a place where a great evil or injustice is occurring, and in a moment where I might intervene and prevent it - I stand by and do nothing. In doing so, I fulfil the prophecy, making it a broader metaphor about the evils of inaction. There is no greater enemy of light than the apathetic fool who who allows evil to prosper and succeed. With this done, I avoid a more literal interpretation of the prophecy, and the resulting life of infamy, torment, and inevitable destruction at the hands of the forces of light. O Anonymous 01/30/21(Sat)23:53:04 No.77259502 ► >>77258684 (OP) He'd probably immediately assume corruption in the 'light' and kick off a purge. O Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)16:18:09 No.77270255 File: 1806_by_morkardfc_dccr8db-pre.jpg (45 KB, 827x967) >>77258684 (OP) if you are a virtuous man and the world becomes opposed to you, it is the world that is wrong being a cleric means never having to question that clearly this world is destined to fall into such depravity that even "light" becomes a vile thing and by God I am all that stands between the world and that hateful destiny O Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)15:09:28 No.77269193 >>77258684 (OP) Take it literally, get put on house arrest at a rural agricultural property with a large dwelling, and then operate a particle accelerator to make some low mass, short lifespan black holes. Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)16:13:45 No.77270167 ► >77270203 >>77258684 (OP) I decide to leave the world at large, get lost in some massive forest or jungle and live out the rest of my life as a hermit O Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)16:15:26 No.77270203 >>77270289 >>77270167 An accident while making a fire lights the forest on fire. An extended period of drought and poor management has left the forest ripe for fire, and within a month nearly a continent of woodland and grassland has been burned away. You did this. You ruined the world. GG O Anonymous 02/01/21(Mon)05:48:17 No.77280160 ► "Oi wots this c--- sayin'? Oi'll neveh turn on ingerland and the queen'?" Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)18:25:34 No.77272227 > >>77258684 (OP) I start going after every light source I can. I blow every candle, shatter every lantern, douse every fire and smother every torch. Long as I live, no light shall shine upon the land.](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/002/016/348/a8e.png)
![O Anonymous 01/30/21(Sat)22:44:57 No.77258684 E >>77258795 >>77258841 >>77258846 >>77259110 >>77259185 >>77259502 >>77259512 >>77259542 >>77259547 >>77259604 >>77259675 >>77260073 >>77260098 >>77260138 >>77260167 >>77260179 >>77260305 >>77260306 >>77260343 >>77260523 >>77260555 >>77260641 >>77261441 >>77261856 >>77262808 >>77263036 >>77263262 >>77263387 >>77263425 >>77263450 >>77263495 >>77263534 >>77263918 >>77264075 >>77264864 >77265016 >>77265085 >>77265305 >>77265493 >>77267292 >>77267403 >>77267456 >>77268464 >>77269193 >>77270017 >>77270076 >>77270136 >>77270167 >>77270251 >>77270255 >>77270944 >>77270994 >>77271661 >>77271751 >77272038 >>77272096 >>77272227 >>77275864 >>77279260 >>77279328 >>77279673 >>77279829 >>77280713 >>77281875 >After reading your character's future, the seer tells them this: "It is your destiny to become the greatest enemy of the light that this world shall ever see. Never shall there even be a villain who can compare to you." How does your character react to this? Hard Mode: Provided that you accept that this is your character's destiny, how would they go about fulfilling this prophecy? O Anonymous 01/30/21(Sat)23:20:56 No.77259085 >>77259142 >>77259465 Oh boy, prophecies, those always go over wellI. I guess first order of business is to kill the seer so she doesn't go telling everyone that they should try and stop me. After that, just keep doing what I was doing, I guess. Either she's wrong, and I shouldn't worry, or she's right, and fate will figure it out. O Anonymous 01/30/21(Sat)23:25:55 No.77259142 >>77259201 >>77259213 >>77259465 >>77259085 >I guess first order of business is to kill the seer Sounds like something a great and terrible villain would do upon hearing this prophesy. O Anonymous 01/30/21(Sat)23:31:22 No.77259213 ► >>77259142 Lol this. So, SO many prophecies come to pass when the villain tries to stop it from happening. Anonymous 01/30/21(Sat)23:51:14 No.77259465 ► >>77259085 >>77259142 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdqnvxiHu_Oc [Remove] The Prophecy Hotline Watch later Share DON'T O Anonymous 01/30/21(Sat)23:30:13 No.77259201 >>77269881 >>77259142 It's just pragmatic. If this chick goes around saying l'll become a great evil, do you know how many scores of Paladins will kick down my door? Better to keep her quiet, permanently O Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)15:57:01 No.77269881 >>77259201 Yeah unless somebody starts investigating the Seer's death and finds out what her very last prophecy was. And now, you've got EVERYONE on your ass; because they think you're up to something and killed the only witness. O Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)00:43:51 No.77260167 >>77263316 >»77267587 File: Mikhailos, the redeemed p(...).jpg (58 KB, 704x824) >>77258684 (OP) "So be it then. If I cannot be a beacon of hope for this world, then I shall be a hammer that tempers its virtue. I shall perform such acts of villany that heroes will have no choice but to rise against me. I shall be the one against whom the light's mettle will be tested. The world will find unity either against me, or under me." O Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)00:57:21 No.77260305 ► >>77261652 File: Spoiler Image (74 KB, 1300x737) >>77258684 (OP) I will accept this terrible purpose. I shall become the obstacle humanity needs to overcome to reach its ultimate potential. O Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)03:54:08 No.77261652 ► >>77260305 Could it be? Is... is that... WATER!? AHHHH I'M DECOMPOSING! DON'T SAVE ME SIONA O Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)00:57:33 No.77260306 ► File: 3AF6C1F2-1926-4A54-B331-2(..).gif (2.95 MB, 500x500) >>77258684 (OP) Great, If my fate is to become a villain then I will strike a deal with fate. I WILL NOT do anything bad until I'm a king with a harem. Because it is my fate to be a villain, this must happen. Upon fate granting my wishes, I wll fulfill my end of the deal. O Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)08:03:19 No.77263387 ► >>77258684 (OP) Set about my ambition to take over the world assured that I can beat the competition. O Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)09:07:18 No.77263918 ► >>77264156 >>77258684 (OP) Question: Is the seer always right or is it some s----- carnie-bunkum? O Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)09:25:44 No.77264156 >>77263918 Traditionally it's a self-fulfilling prophecy brought on by trying to avoid it. So, malarkey, but very advanced. O Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)11:14:06 No.77265598 ► File: 1592547389859.jpg (72 KB, 520x664) My character is a believer in the absolute and unavoidable fate. That is, like, her entire thing. So her reaction will be >Well s---, gotta begin kicking puppies. I don't want to, but the stars will punish me if I disobey, and l'll end up doing it anyway. O Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)14:13:47 No.77268361 File: A9271C21B1F950F853086E570(..).jpg (19 KB, 637x358) *Smiles* Well then lets you and me get this party started. Oh yes you heard right. You keep on staring into that crystal ball of yours and give me a heads up on what's too come. In return you'll be a made ma- er lady. You want a palace? I know just the place to build one. Servants? There's a town not far from here I'm sure we can talk them into working for you. Boys? Girls? I can rustle you up some fine specimens. Whaddaya say? We have a deal? I can sweeten some more if like. O Anonymous 01/30/21(Sat)23:49:05 No.77259435 >>77259447 >>77259562 >>77271703 OK. So, what do you say to the offer of becoming my totalitarian empire's second in command? According to you, I've got the potential to become an absolute dictator. Considering my present position in life, I doubt this is plausible without my having a serious Outside Context Problem as an advantage over the rest of the world. That's where you and your ability to predict the future come in. http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/visionsofabetterworld >The decision was made. Foundation researchers finally received permission to conduct a large-scale system of exposure to SCP-028. Dozens of people would be sent through the empty storage yard every day and thoroughly interviewed and, if need be, interrogated to determine what they had learned. Every scrap of information would be recorded, analyzed and, if deemed sufficiently valuable, released to the general public. >The first month alone resulted in designs for a cold-fusion plant that could power a city the size of London indefinitely, the composition of a fertilizer that would break down harmlessly in seawater and the name of the designer of SCP-914. The Foundation, through its numerous fronts, was rapidly able to improve the quality of life of almost every human on Earth, providing the world with the technologies and knowledge it needed to become a better place. >Then James Harrison Reuben walked through the yard. >James Harrison Reuben was a cable repairman from Topeka, Kansas. A blue-collar worker in a simple, menial job. A perfect receptacle for knowledge. We sent him in with visions of new advancements and beautiful new technologies dancing through our heads. >He came out with the knowledge of how to conquer the world. O Anonymous 01/30/21(Sat)23:50:07 No.77259447 >>77259562 >>77271703 >>77259435 >It's been seven years since then. His armies and death squads march through the streets of every city in the world. Every battle is a devastating victory: how can it be otherwise, when he has perfect knowledge of all our battle plans before they even happen? It is only a matter of time before he overruns our final stronghold. >l'm sending this message out through our wide-band radio transmitter on the off chance that someone will get this message. I'm doing this because the last transmission of our intelligence operatives, before they went dark, shows that Reuben is building space ships. Hundreds of them, lined up in ranks stretching across the Florida coastline. >But I can't shake the feeling that maybe this is all part of his plan as well... O Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)14:20:55 No.77268464 ► File: the_grand_magus_by_oneste(.).jpg (170 KB, 1280x1888) >>77258684 (OP) I seek out a place where a great evil or injustice is occurring, and in a moment where I might intervene and prevent it - I stand by and do nothing. In doing so, I fulfil the prophecy, making it a broader metaphor about the evils of inaction. There is no greater enemy of light than the apathetic fool who who allows evil to prosper and succeed. With this done, I avoid a more literal interpretation of the prophecy, and the resulting life of infamy, torment, and inevitable destruction at the hands of the forces of light. O Anonymous 01/30/21(Sat)23:53:04 No.77259502 ► >>77258684 (OP) He'd probably immediately assume corruption in the 'light' and kick off a purge. O Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)16:18:09 No.77270255 File: 1806_by_morkardfc_dccr8db-pre.jpg (45 KB, 827x967) >>77258684 (OP) if you are a virtuous man and the world becomes opposed to you, it is the world that is wrong being a cleric means never having to question that clearly this world is destined to fall into such depravity that even "light" becomes a vile thing and by God I am all that stands between the world and that hateful destiny O Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)15:09:28 No.77269193 >>77258684 (OP) Take it literally, get put on house arrest at a rural agricultural property with a large dwelling, and then operate a particle accelerator to make some low mass, short lifespan black holes. Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)16:13:45 No.77270167 ► >77270203 >>77258684 (OP) I decide to leave the world at large, get lost in some massive forest or jungle and live out the rest of my life as a hermit O Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)16:15:26 No.77270203 >>77270289 >>77270167 An accident while making a fire lights the forest on fire. An extended period of drought and poor management has left the forest ripe for fire, and within a month nearly a continent of woodland and grassland has been burned away. You did this. You ruined the world. GG O Anonymous 02/01/21(Mon)05:48:17 No.77280160 ► "Oi wots this c--- sayin'? Oi'll neveh turn on ingerland and the queen'?" Anonymous 01/31/21(Sun)18:25:34 No.77272227 > >>77258684 (OP) I start going after every light source I can. I blow every candle, shatter every lantern, douse every fire and smother every torch. Long as I live, no light shall shine upon the land.](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/016/348/a8e.png)
/tg/
Anon gives the wholesome truth
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idk what to call this
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The Book of Weeaboo Fightan Magic
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Roll for Anal Circumference
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The Omegle Crusades: Princess Luna Buys a Used Camel
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The Omegle Crusades: Marriage Counselling
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The Omegle Crusades: Duel of the Rock Gods
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The Omegle Crusades: Brogan Returns
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The Omegle Crusades: Actually Role Playing as a Doctor
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