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It's nice to see people other than myself posting one of my favorite artists (Concord Dawn)

Anyway…

It took me a while to find a Danger song i enjoyed, but eventually, I found one. Ya just gotta look with him.

I concur with what Starfish is saying, that sometimes you gotta dig throughout an artists stuff in order to find something you like rather than expect everything that an artist makes to either appeal or not.

I have music from lots of different artists but for each artist I only have perhaps 1-6 songs from them that I enjoyed. No artist is perfect and are never consistent in making music I like. But if I turned away from an artist because the first couple songs I found didn't sound good, I'd probably have no music at all. So when looking up artists, give them a chance and keep looking, just in case there is a gold nugget in there

I don't even have all the music from my favorite artists because even they will make something that won't sound good to me or even outright defer. I've cherry picked only the ones from them that I like.

Keeping on course with EDM discussion, here's something I'm curious about.

It seems there is a very large impression among the Trance community that 2001-2004 was the best era for Trance. Everything made then was good, everything made afterwards is terrible, went mainstream, watered down, sold out for House, etc, etc, blah, blah…you probably have heard all the complaints.

You see this a lot in the comments on this YouTube clip. It's a pretty common viewpoint.

Do people here feel that Trance degraded badly after 2004? What do you think happened to it?

2004? Little early.

Okay fine…

Do people here feel that Trance degraded badly after [INSERT YEAR WHERE EVERYTHING WENT TO HELL IN YOUR OPINION]? What do you think happened to it?

No, it did not. If you truly hate the genre now, you were never a real fan.

Are you asking if I hate the genre now? Or are you referring to other people who hate the genre now?

I should add that I am not one of those people who say that Trance is not as good as it used to be.
I honestly wouldn't know because I started getting into trance very recently.

I'm not aware if it was "so much better" in the past but so far I have not found a reason to dislike the newer stuff over the older stuff, I just want to know why some people have

Others. It was a general post, I just quoted your post as yours mentioned it.

Trance never degraded. A few artists experimented in House, that's about it.

I guess those people are just being overly nostalgic or pedantic. Or maybe people who listened to Trance in that era ended up over-listening* which caused them to lose interest in newer content

I, of course, won't stop listening to trance just because someone else got tired of it

*Over-listening is a term I invented to describe what happens if you listen to the same genre constantly for a couple years. You get sick of it and start thinking it's getting worse, even as newer content comes out. Expanding your tastes to other genre's is the best way to avoid that.

I can honestly say I've been listening to this song for at least a decade, and it's never gotten old to me:

idono about you, but over-listening's never been a problem to me. Besides, one of electronic music's main criticisms is repitition.

It doesn't happen to everyone. I've observed only, say 4-5 cases of it where people have thrown up their hands and announce they are tired of [insert genre] and cannot listen to it anymore despite doing so for years. I don't think its an EMD thing either. Could happen to anyone listening to anything.

But meanwhile you have guys like opspe who's got just about every DnB album in existence and he shows no sign of getting bored of it.

It's safe to assume that most people don't get that experience. So at this point it's only a minor observation that I noted

Sorry I can't add to the current conversation, but I'm not familiar with any trance. I've never heard any that caught my interest, aside from a few Infected Mushroom tracks a friend told me to check out. I've heard them referred to as trance, but it sounds like a completely different genre to me.

Is it just me, or is electronic the most confusing when it comes to subgenres? I've never had this problem with rock music. I suppose Jazz might be as bad, though. (seriously, you would not BELIEVE how many types of jazz there are)

Anywho, I would like to discuss the points you made earlier.

It took me a while to find a Danger song i enjoyed, but eventually, I found one. Ya just gotta look with him.

I concur with what Starfish is saying, that sometimes you gotta dig throughout an artists stuff in order to find something you like rather than expect everything that an artist makes to either appeal or not.

I agree. I didn't mean to imply that Danger couldn't possibly have something out that I would enjoy. I'm just saying that it would be unlikely due to what I've heard in the tracks I have listened to so far. While I admit, he has some skillfully crafted music, there's one big reason none of his stuff has appealed to me: the overall tone and timbre. Skrillex fans are all going to love bass, Venetian Snares fans like snares and cymbals, and so on. I've listened to a couple of Danger songs, and they all had that distinct "Danger" sound, just like Skrillex and VSnares do. Unless he has some albums that are a stark contrast to his usual stuff, I won't enjoy it.

Let me put it this way, imagine your favorite song. Now, imagine that song completely redone in fart sounds, nails on a blackboard, or some other sound that you find to be really stupid or irritating. It completely changes the feel of the song, even if the sounds match the pitch of the original. You guys can keep your Danger, and I'll keep my music comprised entirely of fart sounds.

I have music from lots of different artists but for each artist I only have perhaps 1-6 songs from them that I enjoyed. No artist is perfect and are never consistent in making music I like. But if I turned away from an artist because the first couple songs I found didn’t sound good, I’d probably have no music at all. So when looking up artists, give them a chance and keep looking, just in case there is a gold nugget in there
I don’t even have all the music from my favorite artists because even they will make something that won’t sound good to me or even outright defer. I’ve cherry picked only the ones from them that I like.

This, on the other hand, I disagree with. Maybe you're a bit more finicky about your music than I am, or perhaps you just haven't found your artist yet. There are numerous musicians I've listened to that only have a few good songs. Some only have one! However, I spend the vast majority of my time listening to artists that put out music that I consistently find enjoyable. In order to spare you all from me geeking out about Venetian Snares and making you listen to even more of his stuff, I'm going to use Otto Von Schirach as an example.

I love Otto's music. I've yet to hear a track I dislike from him. Even with such a diverse catalog, I always manage to find something to enjoy! "Bass Low" has a catchy hook not dissimilar to the style of hip-hop music. Then, there's "Another Night, Another Rave." A goofy breakcore track loaded with plenty of ridiculous samples. And "End of the World," Otto's attempt at Dubstep that mixes a growling bass with the distorted samples of a growling lion. While each song is very different from the last, I like them all. The thing is, every song has a thread that combines them, and makes them enjoyable to me. First off, I would like to bring up the deal of tone and timbre again. Although they have different styles, Otto has a very distinctive way of manipulating his bass and vocals that can be heard in each song. Second, his sampling techniques. Despite having a darker tone, his music often contains some funny, asinine samples that break things up. I'm sure I don't need to point out the ridiculousness in "Another Night, Another Rave," "Bass Low" had the Chuck D 'Bass!' sample that I found unfitting, but in a humorous manner that lightened the mood, and did you notice the mewing kitten in "End of the World"? Honestly, I didn't even notice it until I started typing out this paragraph. It's just one more example of those subtle hints of Schirachness that makes me like his songs, even if it's too subtle for me to consciously register! :)

I don't expect you to like every song from an artist all the time. I'm not always in the Schirach mood. But at some time or another, I can listen to any given song from him and enjoy it. My point is, even with a diverse repertoire, a musician can put out music that you can enjoy consistently.

Is it just me, or is electronic the most confusing when it comes to subgenres?

Quite possibly. I mean I could be bias here because I don't go around rock, hip-hop or pop video's and count how many people argue over the genre there, therefore I don't know how common the phenomena is in other major genre's

But damn is it ever common in anything electronica. I see arguments over a songs genre about as much as I see posts complaining about how JB's talent is so much crappier than the song (You know, the ones that always get into top comments and usually relate his phallus length to the dislike bar)

Most frequent argument:

"Yea, sweet dubstep! Herp derp"

"It's not dubstep moron, it's house. Derp derp herp"

"It's not House, it's Drumstep, learn the derpfrence. Derp"

"It's not Drumpstep, it's Breakcore! Herp Derp Herp"

"You are all wrong, it's obviously Industrial. Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp"

"OMG WHO CARES! ENJOY THE MUSIC. PS: It's Techstep"

I blame this on the people who don't do their research and base their entire definition of a genre on maybe one or two songs they heard. You should never do that because many electronica sub-genres overlap each other in terms of style.

I have Trance that uses a House beat style. I also have DnB with Dubstep sequences in it. If you listen to them and think they define what Trance and DnB sounds like, you will end up with a skewed impression of what defines Trance and DnB

The genre's are fluid and flexible. They can intertwine with each other to the point where its hard to tell where one ends and the other begins. I think that confuses people easily.

And then there are the uneducated masses that think everything electronic must be Dubstep. But that's more of a matter of misinformation rather than ill-defined genre's

Maybe you’re a bit more finicky about your music than I am, or perhaps you just haven’t found your artist yet.

Actually, I think you are right. I think I am a very fussy listener and I've yet to come across an artist that really ticks all the boxes for me. The closest so far have been Black Sun Empire, State of Mind and Concord Dawn, they probably tick off 80% of those boxes.

What boxes you say? Well lets see:

My music has to have patterns and consistency, it has to invoke emotions, it has to invoke imagination. If its loud then it better be loud bass. Absolutely no rude or vulgar lyrics, absolutely no chipmunk voices, absolutely no random unexpected noise like car horns, dog barks or laugh tracks. No heavy scratching, no heavy farting, no heavy static. Lyrics must be minimal and cannot interfere with my ability to tune into the beat. I do not want to hear the vocalists political opinions, breakup stories or rap sequences of any kind…

Criminy, I'm horrible. I'm like the Gordon Ramsey of music listeners

Personally, I've been avoiding this thread because I don't follow EDM despite the fact I like electronica (learn the difference, like BSoD said previously). If you lurk the IRC, you can probably tell I like alternative rock and alternative hip-hop (yes, it exists).

I don't like the generalization of electronica into EDM, as some tend to do. After careful characterization, I found that my favorite is probably house, big beat, and possibly electroswing. And mashups, but it's not technically electronica. Electronica is much more diverse than you would think: electronica has roots from disco. Older bands, like Kraftwerk and Depeche Mode, are still considered major players in the genre, and they are still active. I enjoy electronica used as a tool to improve music.

Like electronic rock

Or electronic hip-hop

(minor "you've probably never heard of it" moment)

Truxton is the best Renard.

@mister J
Hory shit! Aesop Rock!

Anyways, I don't know if anyone else thinks this too, but I think EDM is the best type of workout music. It just pumps me up so much and somehow helps me with my reps. I cant explain it, but without it, I almost feel weaker. This is the mix I probably use the most:
Zyzz the ultimate mix
The speech in the start really pumps me up because just like him, my genetics are beta as phuck. Plus the music is awesome.

Just purchased Army of Mushrooms, and I'm loving every second of it.

@Dac

I leave EDM running during exercise too.

@Starfish

You got me listening through Infected Mushroom now. Not bad stuff. Plenty of variation used throughout each track and each one also strongly reminds me of the music I used to hear when playing old school video games.

Once again there are even more examples of what I was talking about earlier in those Youtube Comments. There is always at least 1 or 2 people who assume that Infected Mushroom makes dubstep and applaud IM on their dubstep skills right in the comments.

To quote one commenter:

Every kid seems to think that Eletronic music = Dubstep .

They are starting to notice…

Infected Mushroom actually does make a little dubstep. X) Only a little though, They make much more Psytrance/Gabber

Yea I wrote that before I clicked on more video's and found out that several IM tracks in that same album are actually Dubstep. There is some House in there too, plus a few of the Trance tracks also had Dubstep samples in them. I'm not wrong though, the tracks that were by no means Dubstep still had people claiming it was Dubstep

On another note, I also went looking through Infected Mushrooms older music since a few people said they sound way different back then. They really do in my opinion. Compare this to anything from Army of Mushrooms

To be brutally honest, I like this older style more. It sounds more like the Trance I know and define as Trance. The newer stuff by comparison contains heavy House and Dubstep influences. (Perhaps demonstrating how influential Electro-house has been in the entire genre this whole decade.) Not saying that's a bad thing. But it provides some insight why those Youtube comments carry mixed responses and genre confusion.

Quite possibly. I mean I could be bias here because I don’t go around rock, hip-hop or pop video’s and count how many people argue over the genre there, therefore I don’t know how common the phenomena is in other major genre’s

That's a good way to put it into perspective. I do listen to other genres, and I rarely see these arguments outside the realm of electronic. I think it has to do with the implementation of effects. A lot of house I've heard has the attack envelope cranked up on synths that drive the beat, most dubstep utilizes an oscillator on the bass, breakcore is defined by its drum breaks, etc. However, one could easily throw all of those elements into one song. Rock is defined more by tempo and pitch. Lower pitch is metal, higher tempo is punk, etc. There are some other factors, but typically not things that can easily mesh (if they can mesh at all) unlike electronic.

absolutely no chipmunk voices, absolutely no random unexpected noise like car horns, dog barks or laugh tracks

Haha! j/k
I bet you just LOVED "Another Night, Another Rave," lol.

I enjoy electronica used as a tool to improve music, like electronic rock, or electronic hip-hop

Same here. I didn't want to post any since I was already posting electronic music that wasn't EDM. Then again, I'm sure my digital hardcore collection is closer to dance music than half of my electronic stuff! XD

Also, props for posting Aesop Rock. I don't listen to much hip-hop, but Aesop Rock is definitely one of the better ones I've heard.

Actually, it could be an interesting subject. What about you guys? Anyone else like genres that meld electronic with other styles? I've always been a big fan of industrial and digital hardcore, and JP Anderson is one of my favorites, up there with Snares and Schirach. Especially his work with Rabbit Junk.

@Dac
I don't work out much, but I find that certain songs certainly do get me amped for it. EDM is good, but just about anything with a real quick tempo works.

@Infected Mushroom discussion
I liked 'em both. I can't really choose a style since my preferences kinda change depending on my mood.

Anyone else like genres that meld electronic with other styles?

Well since I (surprisingly enough) like some forms of metal, I like Trance that incorporates elements of Metal.

The Infected Mushroom I was browsing earlier today had some good examples:

(LOL that title!)

I also remember liking Techno Rock I found in a game soundtrack many years back.

I want to post in this thread but all I listen to is Knife Party and Deadmau5.

I'm not obscure enough.

If you've ever heard any of these songs, you're okay in my book

This was from Tiesto's Twitter:

@Starfish.

That actually sums up clubbing nicely.

Nobody knows what they are doing.

Except Fatboy Slim.

I'll just leave this here for you guise.

Naturally (In fact, I was listening to Fatboy yesterday. I suddenly remembered he's got a few tracks I like)

About this soundcloud group…do elaborate. Is that specifically for the KYM'ers that make music here?

Oh, about that one guy that didn't like the fidget house producers (Danger, Bloody Beetroots), This track just came out about a month ago, and it's the first Bloody Beetroots song I liked:

You just gotta keep your eyes peeled.

Pretty much, yes.

WE MUST NOT LET THE THREAD DIE

I've been meaning to keep this thread going with another discussion topic but there's nothing going on EDM-related for me right now. I've been listening to more Spor and that's it.

We need a topic. What's an ongoing music question someone has been thinking about lately?

Well, I, for one, am psyched about deadmau5's upcoming album :DDD

SHAMBHALA FUCK YEAH!

you just creamed your pants

I actually bought this when it first came out. Wolfgang knows how to make people eargasm.

In my absence:

on Nybble: def not psy, it's totally electro house, psy is closer to 140bpm and has a much different type of bassline

goto 1:05 for example

those are great songs btw, personally I just think it needs more UMPH give it some more energy.

Psy trance….not for me, I don't even like Infected Mushroom's psy-rock stuff, their latest dubstep experiments are pretty interesting

I like oldschool trance

this may have came out in year 2000, but it's got that sick 90s techno sound

It's a type of Psytrance called "Psygressive", sounding similar to acid synths and melodies placed into a progressive trance beat.

And to be specific, full-on psytrance is 145-150 BPM.

<mfw you guys are talking about bpm and all that technical stuff.

@ Starrfish

hmm interesting, haven't heard of this genre, although I thing psy-house would be more fitting for the Interactive Noise song, I like the ones that you posted, very chill tunes, perfect for cruisin

as for chillin tunes:

Minimal techno

and the much more melodic tech house

(edit)
@Dac the non-bender

As a DJ and producer, you have to know your music in and out, you gotta know what tempo each genre is supposed to fit in, once you learn the technical side of music you listen to it kinda differently, you can really start to see the passion the artists have put into their tunes

@kim
Oh, I'm sure. I'm just saying that I have very little knowledge about what I'm listening to, I just know I like it.

@Starfish

I have to agree with Kim here about that first song

As soon as I hear that "BOOM PISH BOOM PISH" beat, then I am going to think House. Trance might have that beat as well but I still expect something more along the lines of "DOOFDOOFDOOFDOOFDOOF" and if it doesn't have that then it needs to be much more melodic

Psygressive? Never heard of it, but why call it that? Gawd that's confusing!

Why not just call it Electro-house with PsyTrance elements? Or PsyTrance influenced House? Or House influenced PsyTrance? Why do people insist on confusing hybrids names that pretend that combining two genre's together makes a wholly different genre? I swear, that's one of the reasons people argue so much over music genres in YouTube comments.

@Kim

Also that Goa is fantastic. I could listen to that all day.

Why do I feel like everyone is calling me a liar?
Exhibit A
Exhibit B
"the drum beat by itself doesn’t necessarily determine the genre" -- Petri Suhonen

Just because it's not goa doesn't mean it's not psy.

I'm not doubting that Psygressive exists. And if that's what you made then alright, I'll take your word. The differences between House and Trance has been so badly blurred that it's not worth arguing.

I'm actually going on about something else here. The real question is: Where do you draw the line between a brand new genre and an existing genre simply done in a different style?

Part of me feels that the dozens of EDM genre's that exist today are really just 6 – 8 particular genres made in different styles and not true seperate genre's

Whats the real difference between all of the Trance sub-genre's aside from a slight variation in pitch, beat, tempo, melody, tone and/or rhythm? Even the most dedicated Trance fans struggle to agree on what is what. Meanwhile the average lay-person cannot identify any difference at all.

“the drum beat by itself doesn’t necessarily determine the genre” -- Petri Suhonen

Neither does anything else…so how can we tell? I need a flow chart or something.

You do have a point there. I mean, on this video, one user, NinjaDeathTeddy, posted a comment saying: "This is actually 'Deep-tech minimal/maximal amsterdam style space-house'". That comment got 41 likes. ಠ_ಠ
Though we need to remember, all these genres are all just subgenres. They are specific styles, so they are not sovereign. Electronic > EDM > Trance > Psytrance > Psygressive. There's probably something underneath that too. That's both a good thing and a bad thing. Electronic music can be incredibly diverse. It can sound hard, soft, soothing, exhilirating, quiet, loud, whatever it wants to sound like. On the other hand, as we get more and more specific, more and more people are going to make subgenres of subgenres of subgenres, and eventually they'll all start bleeding together.
To lighten the mood, enjoy this song:

I really like these songs

The discussion about psygressive is pretty much what I was joking about with the dog reaction face. It's just so confusing all these genres and sub genres and sub sub genres that differ very little sometimes. EDM is really intimidating for me to talk about. I like the music and I have general knowledge on it, but It can get very confusing very fast.

Sorry for the triple post.
This hasn't been discussed really, but what EDM dances do you do?
I'll do the Melbourne shuffle and jump style, but Those are way too hard to keep up all night, so most of the time I'll just improvise tecktonik and keep to the beat. As long as you keep to the beat and move with confidence, you'll look good. But yeah, I like dancing.

I don't dance yet, but I want to learn Electro dance:

Also, Overwerk rules.

@starfish
I'm pretty sure tecktonik is another name for Electro dance.
Anyways I want to learn how to do this shit. Also epic deadmau5 song.