Forums / Discussion / Serious Debate

This is gonna be a lot to take in and it's gonna be my first serious topic but i feel like i can't go on without mentioning this, bear with me and my awful non-native english.
First statement i want to make is when i said "LGBT comic artist" i didn't mean he draws comics about LGBT issues and nothing else. I meant he is part of the LGBT, he does draw traps and porn but is rarely political with his comics.

Rizeki, was a popular Indonesian LGBT comic artist for a while, two of his images about cute traps are already posted here on KYM. Very recently, after getting doxxed and having his address and the knowledge that he's not straight given to the Indo goverment, he felt like he had no other option but to…take his own life.


There is a good side to this story, fortunately the attempt failed, the doctors managed to treat him and he will survive.

And lastly, his family is naturally extremely furious and is seeking legal action, which they hopefully will manage to get.

The situation is looking up for now, we all are hoping he will recover from this and everything will go better…

The tweets in reference are taken from shoe0nhead's twitter and Gaming and Pandas' twitter, if you wish to do more research you can start there.

With the informative part away, i want to leave my thoughts, in a separate comment in case people wants to thumbs up the event that's happening here but disagrees with my thoughts so don't feel good about thumbing it up.

Often times a phrase i hear that gets thumbed up a lot is "why do we need a pride month it devalues everything". We have users who i won't name make memes about people promoting pride months looking like degenerates to be laughed at, and we have other users blatantly call them fags and deviants. I left a comment a while back about this.

And in light of these events, i not only want to double down on this but i also urge everyone to please realize what pride month, and what LGBT community is about. Around the globe we're still a group that's ostracized, threatened, disowned, imprisoned, executed, discriminated and harassed. I know when you're looking through the spectacles of internet and you see no one doing any of these you can question why we celebrate pride month in the first place. Stuff like this is why. And this isn't just specific to Indonesia either. Even in many first world countries people are still openly antagonized and hurt for being LGBT. This isn't a fight that just ended yesterday when gay marriage was legalized in the US. It'll never end, because it's human nature to do things like these.

The easiest way to convince someone to be a monster against a targeted group of individuals is to convince said person to believe that "the individuals aren't even people. They never were. They are degenerates, deviants, faggots who only flash themselves and annoy others. So it's okay to treat them as such right?" This is the mindset you make people acquire to harm others like this.

So in light of it all, please understand that pride month, pride walks and similar events aren't done to shout "LUL WE'RE GAY GIVE US SPECIAL TREATMENT". They are done to make a point, a point that even if we receive the worst of treatments globally, we won't back down, and we exist, we have a right to exist and we have a right to coexist too.

One last thing i want to mention is how often i hear "you shouldn't base your whole identity around who you choose to sleep with" or "Well we get it ur gay but you don't have to say it so be quiet". I don't think anyone can realize what this is like without experiencing it especially in an oppressive country like the one i'm in right now (Turkey).

But the idea is that, firstly, we don't "choose" to be the way we are, we just are that way. That's how we feel. I never chose to be bisexual, when i first found out i got hard ons from men i tried to deny it, for about 4-5 years i convinced myself i was never romantically attracted to any boys and the idea was yucky, only sexually. The denial was something i created just so i could feel normal in a society that incarcerates people like me. And now that i realize i'm both romantically and sexually bisexual, i naturally feel it's unfair i can't kiss another guy without people thinking i'm being obnoxious or "in-your-face". I didn't choose to be like this and neither did any of us. Please don't use these arguments, and please realize why they both are extremely weak arguments that serves no purpose in the first place.

Anyway i hope you all stay safe out there, especially the LGBT folks who didn't come out yet, stay safe alright.

soo, is it illegal to be gay in Indonesia or something? I might have missed something.

Considering that Indonesia is the largest Muslim majority country, depending on where he is living it is outright illegal or at the very least decriminalized. On the latter note, said decriminalization does not protect LGBT people from discrimination or hate crimes. (Wikipedia article on LGBT rights in Indonesia)

In short, if the government doesn't get him, he'd still be in potential danger from other citizens. (Especially considering stricter adherence to sharia law is on the rise there.)

Panic I assume.
Probably had a misjudgement and tried to take thier life to avoid any "further consequences" if there were any to be avoided.

One of Rizeki's extended family member got a hold of Rizzy's twitter account to bring an update about Rizzy and the issues Rizzy had in the past.
Sadly its Indonesian, so here's the translated part of it.
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From what I heard, Rizzy have dealt with a ton of heavy issues in his place for years and this attempted suicide is his breaking point. You can look into the translated text for more information.
And please, like last time with the August Ames thread (and maybe including the Totalbiscuit thread), be nice and don't be a dick.

Seems more so as if he wished to protect his family against attacks – in the more traditional (and radical) communities family ties are much closer, and the entire family is blamed for the action of a single family member. Not sure if that was the case here, but it's a possibility.

Additionally, had he gotten arrested by the government or lynched by the public, the pain and misery he'd have experienced would have been terrible. Head of the Sharia police in Aceh, one of Indonesian provinces (and the most radical one), openly said that he'd want to bury homosexuals at the crossroads to their necks and let everyone who passes by throw a stone at them until they die.

So yeah. Besides the bad emotional state Rizeki was in, there was also this somewhat rational reasoning behind it.

I'm going to say something controversial: the thing that a lot of people forget is that most Muslim countries in the world persecute lgbt. Whenever Rizzy recovers there is a very high possibility that Rizzy is going to get killed.

This is why I hate ideological groups that go "no bad tactics", cause they often times do get people killed. Anyone remember how a internet mob caused August Ames to take her life?

How to spot a psychopath, "It's not murder if I get them to commit suicide™"… Yes, yes it is murder, numerous countries' courts have legally defined provoking someone to commit suicide is indeed murder. It may not be considered murder where Rizeki lives but chances are where the person who did this is from is now legally considered a murderer.

Not controversial imo, more factual than anything. But don't lose hope, there are already plans to get Rizeki out of Indonesia, we're all hoping it comes to fruition.

The people i'm really sad for are the people in Rizeki's situation but can't afford to leave no matter what they do. So they either take their own lives, keep living in eternal hell or get murdered….it's all just so heartbreaking overall…

I was wondering when the first disrespectful comment was gonna come along. I should've figured it was going to come from the same guy who already embarrassed himself in the LGBTQ comments section not too long ago and got buried for it

Since it is clear as day you are baiting for an emotional response to make people here mad yet again, i'll instead, give you a strictly logical one.

First and foremost , let's begin with freedom of speech. It is true freedom of speech entails you are free to speak your mind, but you're not allowed to actively harass and bully other members of this site, this is literally written in the sites rules. Freedom of speech means you can say something without getting imprisoned for it, not "i can say whatever the fuck i want and if i get criticized for it you're obstructing my freedom of speech". Quite on the contrary, our freedom of speech allows us to criticize you without getting imprisoned for it too.

Secondly, the idea of a pride walk is exactly what i listed, telling others we are alive no matter how much they want us not to be. So you shouldn't be too shocked that sometimes some people in them draw obscenely, to shock others even more. Because our mere existence is a shock to many already, the idea is to shock people even further, since the easier alternative for every bigot is to pretend we don't exist, making that hard to do is only natural.

Thirdly, it is technically true transexualism isn't a sexual orientation. However it is, also, a state of being that differs someone from being cisgendered, puts the person in a group that is forever hated by people like you. LGBT community decided to protect people who are in actual pain related to their orientation and sexual status, so it's only natural we shield trans people from people like you. Transexual people are in a constant state of gender dysrophia, by all psychological accounts they are entailed to the cure, which is to transition, to become the gender they feel they are. You cannot possibly understand how that is like yet you talk anyway. In the same comments chain you left, people already replied to you saying "the medical help and cure to transexuals IS to have them transition idiot", but that's not an answer you like hearing, considering you are a transphobe based on that same comment.

Fourthly, let's break your weak strawmen;

4a "ranging from making up genders": LGBT community isn't an entire group of people you can use to blame for everything tumblr does, the most we push for is the acknowledgement of they pronouns for people who aren't comfortable being either boys or girls. Of course, we as a group aren't a literal hivemind either, so naturally most of us are gonna disagree on what to do and what not to do, some of us will try to do things other completely don't want. I know, shocker right, almost as if we're all individuals who are pushing for one goal and not a literal hivemind you can use for your agenda. What most of us agrees on is that people should be allowed to be called by "they" if they feel comfortable doing so.

4b "pushing for "transitioning" rights for minors": Almost everyone in this community unanimously agreed that sweden was going batshit insane when they did that. However it is true that you can observe the signs of gender dysrophia early on in some people, and it is true that you can help them early on. But even then most of us agrees no one should undergo HRT while they're also undergoing puberty. They should start receiving treatment once they finish puberty and what most of us are doing is protecting them from getting bullied to hell and back early on.

4c "harassing Christian bakeries for a wedding cake": The wedding cake issue has to do with what's legal for private business owners to do and what isn't. If you agree that private business owners should have a right to deny business to whatever group, race, religion, sexuality or orientation they want, which isn't the most far fetched idea out there, then yes what they did there wasn't legally wrong. But it's still morally wrong, it's still religious homophobia at the end of the day, and you'll have to excuse me if i can't bring myself to feel sorry here when the intent was clearly discriminatory. What you're essentially saying is "oh look at these poor people, they outright discriminated someone and they got criticized for it! Woe is them…"

Fifthly, nice bullshit statistic you pulled off your ass. "99% of westerners who celebrate the pride month are too spineless to say anything bad about countries like Indonesia". Have a single made up graph to back that up? Course you don't. We try our best to protect christians and muslims who happen to be LGBT because their communities and their very own religion depending on how it's interpreted, is against them. So we have to protect them since no one else is going to.

Lastly, "pride month is nothing but a minority Mardi Gras at best, a commercial virtue signaling fest at worst": Yea if the stuff you said were factually true maybe this statement would also be true. It's a good thing nothing you said is factually or even emotionally true.

Gotta love those delusional SJWs that were replying to him/her on twitter that the situation in the USA for LGBT people is just as bad as muslim countries because of Trump and Pence. I've made it in time to read and laugh to them before the profile was made private today.

While it's downright delusional to even say something like that, and blatantly insulting, i also don't feel like USA is in a good state for LGBT people right now. And i don't think it's necessarily because of Trump or Pence.

It's because the current atmosphere in america is extremely, and i mean extremely polarizing. I am actually really worried for a couple friends there, when i keep seeing the intense and sheer hatred everyone has for each other, when i keep hearing about hate crimes here and there and whenever i read posts like "it's time to pick a side or get caught in the crossfire" from either sides. I hope you all stay safe.

Islam is such a backwards religion. Also, Muslims are too tied to their religion.

"People are openly racist around me. As a black male in Texas it's really not that surprising but it's much more frequent now." -Blind_Playa on the issues that negatively impact has caused towards Redditors who personally answered.
It's even much more frequent (more homophobia than racism) within from Jakarta to Denpasar than in the U.S.A.
I'll hope that the future of her studio will take place at a new home somewhere in CA, AU or NZ.

I wonder if someone has exploited the Indonesian government by posting pictures online of people they don't like and claim they are gay or anti-Islam.

I mean, doxxing being bad is not something that really needs to be explained.

Can't say I blame the family for being out for blood. I would do so as well if someone caused a family member or friend to attempt suicide just so that my family can save face.

We can argue about Islam being backwards and that there should be separation of church and state, but the fact of the matter is this whole ordeal was caused by doxxing. Makes me wonder if there even is any criminal penalties for doing so.

Muslims believe that Islam is perfect and shall not be reformed.

Cool it with the euphoria lad. An extreme fundamentalist faction does not a hivemind make.

I meant these in SA, Iran and other fundamental countries.

Like Bible Belt, USA.