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well now, i've been thinking about it for a while, and i've got some ideas for stories, characters and whatnot, but the things i'm lacking as a writer is:
a) reference material for story, setting and characterisation, as well as good language usage for genres
b) how to plan well (mindmaps and drafting doesn't seem to help too much)
c) how to avoid cliches while at the same time being able to use character archetypes in a good way

i know an obvious answer would be to start viewing the media i watch and read with a more critical viewpoint to understand character traits and how to make a setting more inclusive (or exclusive, depending on genre), but i feel like this wouldn't be enough.
is there any essential books for understanding basic character archetypes, plots and themes? i know the Bible is considered to be essential reading for writers to get a feel for symbolism and themes in text, but i feel like i should read more academic material or handbooks that could help, as well as more books that are considered important to establishing common writing ideals.

You could read books with really strong characters that aren't types you see a lot today.
Gone With the Wind, Little Women, etc.

If you have an idea already it might be better to use development prompts. Like 50 questions to ask your antagonist and biography sheets for characters. This is the traditional mass market storyboard, plus some plot development questions at the bottom.

I think stuff like that is the best way to get organized and started.

You should also write more in general, daily writing prompts are a great exercise.
We should get a thread going here actually.

…reference material for story, setting and characterisation…

First and foremost, you have to set the plot up. Don't even think about characters, just about what's going to happen. From there, you think about setting. Where would this plot best fit? The real world? A contrasted one? Present, past, future? Then you start diving in and thinking about characters, personalities, backstory, etc.

As for reference material, I look to stuff I like. I'm a fan of medieval European history, so one of the things I referenced for a country in my (still being planned) setting was the Holy Roman Empire. What do you like? History, biology, biking? Taking something you enjoy doing or reading about and incorporating it is a great way to add something to the story.

…how to plan well (mindmaps and drafting doesn’t seem to help too much)…

Do what seems to work best for you. It could be a detailed outline of every plot point, a timeline of events that happen, little synopsis-like blurbs for chapters, or even something as simple as writing down the chapter titles and then spending a couple weeks just thinking about ideas in your spare time.

I've found writing an encyclopedia-like thing works well for me, coupled with the chapter title one.

how to avoid cliches while at the same time being able to use character archetypes in a good way

I've had a lot of fun reading TV Tropes, a Wikipedia-like site that covers many, many plots, characterization types, and cliches. Be warned that it can become quite engrossing.

…the Bible…

It can be quite complex, especially when dealing with the symbolism. There's stuff at the start that's brought up near the end, stuff that might be brought up later if you're reading this translation, or that. I'd recommending reading Psalms, Proverbs, one of the minor prophets (Haggai, Zephaniah, etc.), and Revelation to get a basic idea of some of the stuff at work. My preference is KJV.

Most importantly, though: write. Try and set aside some time each day to write. It could be little oneshots, or scenes from your big story. But whatever it is, just write something. The best way to become better at something is to practice doing it, after all.

Like Lisa said, read as many books as possible. To be honest, that's all you really need to do. Read widely and outside your interest, but most of all challenge yourself as often and as much as possible. I suggest "On Writing" by Steven King as a good guide for writing. It's a fun and quick read and has some good advice. Also, "The Elements of Style" by Strunk and White is an essential guide for good grammar and structure.

Minty wrote:

how to plan well (mindmaps and drafting doesn’t seem to help too much)

Same here. I typically skip most forms of planning when I write fiction; I find it much easier to push the plot forward as it is being written. I think that the best way to do it is to ask yourself "is this scene crucial?" every time you are setting out to write a particular chapter. If it is not exciting enough, or it reveals very little or nothing that advances the plot, then it is then probably best to cut the scene entirely. For instance: rather than follow your characters as they walk from point A to point B, having a boring conversation, either make that conversation about critical points of exposition or have a jump-cut to skip straight to the destination.

lisalombs wrote:

You should also write more in general, daily writing prompts are a great exercise. We should get a thread going here actually.

The truest advice. Practice makes anything better. A great resource for daily writing prompts is the Writing Prompts subreddit. And, I'd be up for a short story writing thread on KYM.

TvTropes is also a good resource. It can help you come up with ideas ("hey, what if that character accidentally locked themselves in the walk-in freezer?") or know what to avoid doing accidentally ("wangst", Mary Sues, Scrappies, "Narm", etc.).

You can also find a new way to use existing tropes to give your writing more originality or develop new ideas. For example it will often point out underused cases of tropes. In one instance that I remember off the top of my head, I remember reading that it's perfectly possible for the "Alpha Bitch" to be male, but in practice there are relatively few male examples. The Playing With portions also can serve the same purpose. For example you could do a double subversion of "the butler did it"; it turns out he actually wasn't the one responsible for the death of his employer-- but he is still totally guilty of committing arson and setting the house on fire in a completely unrelated crime.

I really like the website, and although it's not perfect nor is it the only resource you'll ever need, it gives you a new, useful way of thinking about fiction, in all its various forms. Of course, it will ruin your life, but it will enhance it as well.

Some tips that work for me:

Before anything, you need a premise. Said premise should should be a sentence or few sentences that more or less describes the whole work. Tone (funny/serious/dark/etc) isn't the main focus, just the general events of the plot. For example, Madoka Magica is "Turns out that being meguca is suffering", Kill la Kill is "People with super-empowering clothes on a dictatorship-like school", Watamote is "Life and times of a socially-awkward girl. Trigger warning: might hit a little too close to home for some"

Then you design the plot, the beginning, the ending, and the inbetween. Instead of going step by step, you should have a vague idea of all the plot (important event A, important event B,…), then fill out to connect while refining the points.
Be less like this:
A→AB→ABC→ABCD→…
And more like this:
C…Y→CD…N…Y→A…CD…G…MNO…XY→…
Also, i really recommend to have the plot more or less finished before actually starting to draw/film/program. Otherwise, you have situations where the latter parts are completely out there when compared to earlier parts, or everything was good until the ending that was out of place, or the series casually stops (for example with webcomics).

Brevity is […] wit. Be straightforward, complex isn't the same as better. If it's all written (ie. no visuals or audio), everyday words and short descriptions often do the work (for the record, not following this rule creates something by the name of Purple Prose). Remember to organize the text with the basics you've learned on elementary school, sentences have a topic, paragraphs circle around a topic. With dialogue (regardless of medium), i think it should be given in small bites, people saying some sentences back and forth. Remember: dialogue involves (at least) two people exchanging words, if one does a long, continuous session, it stops being dialogue and becomes a monologue. Don't be superfluous having discussions or scenes regarding things that won't matter in the grand scheme, every thing should guide the characters a bit closer to the end; this is allowed more or less for the worldbuilding, show the interesting details of their life, not the boring parts (eg. mention farming to show they are rural people but not the mechanical process of farming, the step-by-step of the work; or some scenes practicing martial arts but not a whole diary of every. single. day. in training)

Thanks so much for all the suggestions and help guys!
I think I can set aside some time each day to practice my writing (like i did just now cuz i'm sick lmao), since I spend a lot of my time just shitposting, but the problem I'll have is to stick with it…
But anyways!

lisalombs wrote:

If you have an idea already it might be better to use development prompts. Like 50 questions to ask your antagonist and biography sheets for characters. This is the traditional mass market storyboard, plus some plot development questions at the bottom.

I've been needing something to use for a while to develop my characters and plan my plots, particularly my antagonist since I'm not really good at writing villains and coherent plots in general, lmao.

xTSGx wrote:

First and foremost, you have to set the plot up. Don’t even think about characters, just about what’s going to happen. From there, you think about setting. Where would this plot best fit? The real world? A contrasted one? Present, past, future? Then you start diving in and thinking about characters, personalities, backstory, etc.

Thanks I'll keep this tip in mind, since I'm not really good at world building via text, but I like to think I can make good (or at least somewhat interesting) characters, but idk.

Roy G. Biv wrote:

TvTropes is also a good resource.

SHIT, I forgot about TvTropes. I haven't been on there in ages!
Yeah I know they're a good source for learning tropes and archetypes for characters, so I should start going there again. If I recall correctly, they also have a writing prompt function, as well as a idea generator for crossovers, so maybe I could use that to practice my writing as well as learning how to mesh different character types.

Glacier wrote:

Brevity is […] wit. Be straightforward, complex isn’t the same as better.

I feel like this is a hurdle I need to get over. I've noticed that a lot of my early attempts to write stories (as well as some of the stuff I still write now) made me tired due to how much I tended to try and explain a character's view and insight in a situation without actually describing the events of a situation clear and simply enough, which tended to make action and idle scenes unsatisfying and all-round really boring for me to read.
At least, that's what I think about it.

Kourosh Kabir wrote:

Like Lisa said, read as many books as possible. To be honest, that’s all you really need to do. Read widely and outside your interest, but most of all challenge yourself as often and as much as possible. I suggest “On Writing” by Steven King as a good guide for writing. It’s a fun and quick read and has some good advice. Also, “The Elements of Style” by Strunk and White is an essential guide for good grammar and structure.

Heard about "On Writing", I have a PDF of it somewhere, but "The Elements of Style" is new, I guess I'll try finding that.

Sidenote: Is "Save the Cat!" a good guide for storyboarding? I know it's similar to that storyboard Lisa linked but I don't know.

Also here's a short oneshot I made. I don't think it's good but I like to think it gives a taste of my writing ability right now. Maybe I could get some critiques on it and what specifics in structure/other-technicalities-I-don't-know-the-words-for I could work on?
Also Syndic's/Lisa's idea of a dedicated short story thread sounds good! Perhaps we could have that.