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Blue Screen (of Death) Wrote:

Oh sure, he/she can just post an OC in here or they can PM it to me and we’ll use it. I’d encourage him/her to post here though. It’s a bit strange being part of a family photo when you don’t interact with that family. Everyones going to look back and think “who the hell was that guy?”

Sounds like a small bit from an Episode of How I met your Mother.

… Can't find a clip of it for some reason though…

Well, if I'm in the family, I would like to be the one that plays pranks on everyone when they least expect it…

Okay so… a few Pages ago… We were talking about Mary Sues right?

There's a certain Test ranking someone once made for that.

When I thread in a few things in there that generally work out to apply to most of my characters Combined… It found the characters I write have barely any Sue-ish traits… Well… For their Setting anyways.

There's also a test based on the idea that a Race can be sue-ish.

…In just the two stories I'm working on, the combined total of traits of the races tend to score worse there… But not horribly.

So… I think that shows I have a mild obsession with exotic races. And sometimes even Hybrid Races. Which may or may not hurt my writing.

…Guilty Pleasure?

…

Which leads to a little Segue into a Discussion Topic!

Anyone here have any Guilty Pleasures when it comes to writing Fan-Fiction? And if so, then what is it?

Did some more progress on that animation:

All I need left is the background, the sound effect words and William A. Zecora. Which reminds me, anyone know where I can find so good references of the interior of Nightmare Moon's castle ruins?

inb4 Exudes commits jealous suicide.

@Alex

Seriously, what the fuck?

Also I shared that with X-singular. Couple notes from him:

Blue Screen (of death): WHAT THE FUCK!#@#!@!
X-singular: Needs more circlejerk.
X-singular: Needs more dragon dildos.
X-singular: Needs more Thomas the Engine.
Blue Screen (of death): I DID NOT ASK FOR THIS!!!
X-singular: over all
X-singular: "9.9 It's shit" -IGN

So yea, something to keep in mind for your next production.

Take two at OC

I think this one came out much better, I am happy with it

Thanks again for the constructive criticism, BSOD.

Now to work on other requests

Very well, since BSOD asked, here is my OC… Sort of…

About that Mary Sue test, I did Ace and got a 22. Bet none of you saw that coming, ah?

About the guilty pleasures, I kind of like it when a character, usually a human female, is tied up. Yeah. Now you can think of AJ using her lasso on Jeff.
-

Oh, and I saw BSoD liked my background.

@Jimmy

Well before you get too excited, regard that your image is also far too panned out. A closer shot is required, however your image did provide a good example of a wide open space that is well lit and that is ideal.

About that Mary Sue test, I did Ace and got a 22. Bet none of you saw that coming, ah?

Hmm, what about me? Is the Blue Screen a Mary Sue? [Does test]

I got 20

"17-21: Fanfiction characters can go either way at this point depending on the writer. For an MMO/RPG or original fiction character, however, you're most likely perfectly fine."

Okay. I guess I have nothing to worry about if I ever end up in an RPG.

Out of curiosity, I also did the Mary Sue Race test on ponies themselves. Let's see how our favorite little equines perform…

The result is 13

"11+ Points: Most likely a Sue race."

Uh oh…welp I guess it's time to break out the flamethrowers. We have a lot of Sue's to kill.

Well let's take the Mary Sue test to see which of My OC's is the bigger Mary Sue.

First up: Kewln00b Poni [Name Pending]: His score is 28…..huh. That's weird.

NOW: Killgore The Alicorn: Wow….I answered everything as honestly (to how I believe Killgore will be written) as I can and I actually got…..124.
BEHOLD, THE KING OF THE MARY SUES!!!!!!

WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?!

My god is right here:

Come at be brah!

I'm almost done with my OC for the family photo.
Don't start without me! D:

My only regret is having been absent for much of this… whatever this is.

Take my advice kids, never get a job.
They suck.

@Crimson
Nice job on the OC!
If I can offer just one more suggestion, I'd say that the body/torso looks a little long.
You might try shortening up that a bit.
Otherwise, I love the design!
The mane and tail are especially awesome!

@BSoD, Mary Sue Race test
Just a couple point that I want to contend:

3. Are they typically more intelligent than other races/sapient species?
I wouldn't really say this is true.
A number of other species seem to have similar abilities of culture and language and are treated relatively equally in society (griffons, dragons, zebras, etc.) so without knowing anything else, I'd have to assume that they are at least comparably intelligent to ponies.

12. Do they exist in perfect harmony with nature/their homeland?
Um, Everfree Forest?
They d have some control and harmony when it comes to nature, but it is hardly 'perfect.'

14. Do they have a better government and justice system than most other races/sapient species?
You know, except for the whole 'one diarch attempted to endanger all life on the planet because of jealousy to the point that the other diarch had to banish her counterpart.'
We haven't really seen much of the ponies' political processes, but I think that it is clear that their system of government is far from flawless.

Removing those three points brings their score down to just a 10, which is outside of Sue range!
Yay!
(In all honesty though, a children's show like this will inevitably have a number of Sue traits and that is not a bad thing. For example, episodes are specifically tailored around teaching a moral lesson that will be applicable to human children, so having the ponies share our general moral standards is pretty much expected and intentional.)

Now, back to the OC shipping/BSoD molestation.
I'll just be over here…

@Deadparrot

I’d have to assume that they are at least comparably intelligent to ponies.

Although we haven't seen how much other sentient races have developed. It seems the only one with towns, cities and technology, not to mention all the important historical figures, are the ponies. While not vastly superior, they seem more developed than anything else so I checked that box. But then again the next episode could show a Griffon city and I'll be wrong, so yea I'll give you that.

Um, Everfree Forest?

Point taken

but I think that it is clear that their system of government is far from flawless.

I disagree. There are no lobby groups, no parties, no liberals, no cynics, no protests, no acts, no bylaws. The pony government handles all issues and matters on a nationally satisfactory level. The public is 100% in support of their leadership and is 100% conservative, requesting no changes to the current form whatsoever and has insisted on the same head of state for a millenia.

Even the main source of contention in the throne (Celestia's Sister) is no longer an adversary and continues to support the status quo

That to me, is a sign of a completely flawless government that makes absolutely no mistakes.

And before you point out that regimes may only seem like that because they don't allow the public to disagree with ruling, remember that this is not a fascist dictator but a magical glittering unicorn princess that literally makes sunshine and rainbows. If the public looks content under this leader, they probably are.

All this said, you are right that it really doesn't matter how sue-ish pony culture is. It's My Little Pony, they are supposed to look idealised. Furthermore, cartoons and comedy pieces get more leniency in general. I wouldn't care (nor would I be surprised) if they scored a 15. Now if the main characters were Sues [coughtwilightcough], that matters more

For the record I also ran the Mary Sue race test on ourselves, the human race…

…and it's not like we are any better. We score a whopping 29. Good job humanity, every last one of us is a Mary Sue

Now, back to the OC shipping/BSoD molestation.

No. I'm done. We have some new OC's now. Go molest those.

@Lone K

I’m almost done with my OC for the family photo.
Don’t start without me! D:

We won't. I'm still waiting for OC's and I'm still looking for backgrounds

Well… I'm officially a maid for 24 hours after losing a bet about MLP… I'm angry as hell, but I just have to deal with it…

Wish me luck…

Here's a pic to make people feel better…

Markhaox wrote:

Well… I’m officially a maid for 24 hours after losing a bet about MLP… I’m angry as hell, but I just have to deal with it…

Pics or didn't happen.

It's not too late to add in an OC for the family photo, is it? If not…


I made it with one of those Pony Creators that are all over the place.
Basic background for him is that he is an aspiring author and vocalist for a band that can best be described as a punk band. He doesn't actually sing so much as scream and shout into a microphone while his bandmates bash away on their instruments as fast a possible. Most ponies don't like their music. He used to have a third ear piercing but he lost it while moshing which is also why he's missing a chunk of his ear. Personality wise, he is typically very reserved unless he's on stage. That's all I've got for him at the moment. I'll probably come up with more for him at some point. Eventually.

Sibsy gives some interesting details about the season 3 opener which can be found in the video below at 10:33 and 36:12.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCzcUTXzwlY

Skip to 40:45
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxLmvBB5X7c
Asker: I have two questions for M.A. Larson.
Asker: In the season 3 finale, what was the original intent of Star Swirl the bearded’ spell?
M.A. Larson: What’s the other one?
[snip]
M.A. Larson: …As for the first part, I’m gonna take the Fifth and pass it over to my left
Meghan McCarthy: Oh, I can’t…
FinalDraft: You brought it upon yourself
Meghan McCarthy: I know.
Meghan McCarthy: Um. That’s a good question. I don’t know if we went into it knowing what he thought that the end result was he was sorta working… what he was working towards… um… but.. yeah…

Well… I'm suddenly realizing I have a new thing I'm self critical about… Thanks to the last criticisms about hair with the trouble with the OC Adjustments for the family pic.

And now I have no idea if the hairstyles of ponies my my most recent update to a Tumblr comic is okay or not.

…And I predict a 50% chance anyone cares…

@Mary Sue discussion

Jimmies=rustled.

Having a test for Sues is inherently flawed because being a Sue does not depend on some set of traits, but rather how a character functions in the context of a story. The main problem with a Sue is not that they're annoying perfect little bitches with no flaws, but that they drain the story of conflict or, as is often the case with fanfiction, ruin the canon chemistry between characters.

For example, say you're dealing with a ethically perfect Sue. The ethically perfect being is not bad in and of itself, but rather the problem comes when we make that ethically perfect being our protagonist and this story is a morality play. Since they're ethically perfect, there's no problem they're going to get into because of their lack of virtue, no personal growth to be had through their solving it, and ergo no story. This doesn't mean that no story should contain an ethically perfect being or even that no story should contain an ethically perfect being as a protagonist. Take the classic tale of the chivalrous knight rescuing the maiden from the dragon or whatever. The knight is morally perfect, but that's fine because the conflict in our story does come from an ethical dilemma, but from a fucking dragon.

Take a look at Ozymandias and Dr. Manhatten in Watchmen. Both of these characters have Sueish traits, but they're not Sues because the way they're used in the story still generates some excellent conflict. Take a look at the paradigm 'Sue' race, Tolkien's elves. They're not really Sues because the way they're used as mostly these cool guys off to the sidelines who don't get directly involved keeps them from robbing the story of conflict.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that tests for Sueishness are just stupid. Writers looking at these lists and saying to themselves "I must avoid these character types at all costs" just serves to rob their easel of some of its colors. Like dissonance in music, Sue-like characters can be beautiful if used intelligently.

@Fifths

That's pretty much how it goes isn't it? It's like Cooking…

Use the right Spices together and you get something nice. Use the Wrong ones together and you have something Horrible.

… Imagine said Conflict of the Dragon as Tofu. And an Invincible Knight as Strawberry…

That's not going to work. At least not Without turning it into Vegan Yoghurt First.

But If you Have Tofu Dragon and a Little Bit of Pork Hammyness, some Mushroomy moral idealism and a Bit of Noodly Embarasing Moments. You May get a half Decent Bowl Of Anime flavor Ramen. Though it could Use a few more Vegtables for nutrition, such as character interaction other than slobbering over each others faces.

…And that Ramen Metaphor is Making me Hungry… Time for a Midnight Snack.

RandomMan wrote:

Pics or it didn't happen.

You've been zinged, my dear voyeur. For everyone else, I'm free at 13:00 tomorrow.

Maid pony time?

Maid pony time.

@Fifths
We were actually talking about that back when the topic first came up, but yeah, it's good to reiterate that Mary Sue characters are far more dependent on bad writing than any specific character traits.
As you said, a universally loved, morally right, 'perfect' character can be the correct choice for certain types of stories.
The problem occurs when the whole point of the character seems to be those traits.
In other words, the character was only created to be loved by all or at least considered superior to all others by the reader if not the other characters in the story (presumably because the creator of said character is projecting themselves onto it, thus the classic 'self-insert Mary Sue OC').

You could also make the case that Sues are highly functional in parody, but the rules for those types of stories essentially boil down to breaking every normal rule in spectacular fashion so that's to be expected.

MAID PONY TIME!

"Happy birthday, Ace."

Did someone say Maid Pony Time?

You damn right, fool.

Related:

Ace walks into his bedroom and sees Vinyl lying on his bed in a maid uniform
Vinyl: Happy birthday, Ace.
Ace: Uh… today's New Year's Day, right?
Vinyl: Yeah, why?
Ace: We have the same birthday. Hold on, I'll be right back.
a few seconds later, Ace walks in with ropes and a ballgag
Ace: Time for your present.

Maid ponies? MAID PONIES!

Um, hey, so I noticed a lot of my posts are having 1 like and 1 dislike. Whoever's liking/disliking them, please let me know so I can administer an ass-kicking if nessecary. Thank you.

More maid ponies:

Umm….I'd kind of like it if this doesn't turn into a fetish thread please (not talking about the maid ponies, I'm talking about the whole bondage post…..)

What have I created?

There's only one way to fix this, then.

@*markhaox14:* A beautiful thing my friend, a beautiful thing…

Sorry, all I heard was 'maid' and 'bondage.'

And yet there's a part of me that assumes that – maybe just every once in a while – a maid pony sleeps in Celestia's bed knowing exactly when the princess will return, and knowing exactly what will happen after.

.
.
.
.
I should just write the damn fanfic already.

And just like that, the thread flies off the rails and into the sky. Never looking back at the previous topic. To spend time flirting with maids and to earn the utter scorn of the moderators

Jimmy, please don't do that. Like, ever. We call that threadjacking and we lock threads for it.

I was enjoying the previous topic. Now, rerailing…

@Lunar

Well… I’m suddenly realizing I have a new thing I’m self critical about… Thanks to the last criticisms about hair with the trouble with the OC Adjustments for the family pic.
And now I have no idea if the hairstyles of ponies my my most recent update to a Tumblr comic is okay or not.

I'd put it this way: If it's a hairstyle you would never, ever see used casually in public then it might be worth toning down. Otherwise I doubt anyone will question you about it.

It goes beyond hairstyle though, remember we did critique more than that. I also felt that you drew ponies too skinny and lanky. Especially the legs. I know that real life horses don't exactly have leg girth that is in proportion with their bodies but in MLP they do. I think your tendency to overlook that rule in pony design actually stuck out more than the hair.

It's best to just stick as close to the canon design as much as you can. I used to draw ponies in my own style myself but I'm starting to adopt more canon styles now. I have to say my ponies look better when done the canon way.

@Fifths

Relax, it's not like either me or Deadparrot are taking the Mary Sue thing seriously. We both stated that it doesn't really matter to us if the pony race were Sues according to that test (Nor is it as if my analysis is accurate). I just took the opportunity to use some tongue in cheek humor.

After all, like you say, it mostly comes down to writing rather that a set of specific tropes. I think we already established that when we previously discussed Sues several pages ago.

However, the Mary Sue litmus test linked above, does serve it's purpose. It's mainly for inexperienced writers who would not know how to handle a Sue in writing if they find themselves with one. And as we all know: Sues in the hands of first-time writers is where they are most dangerous.

Yes, a Mary Sue type character can work so long as they are written into a story correctly, BUT this is typically something only skilled writers can pull off. For junior authors, I think it is best to avoid them. Tests like those are just to help them do so.

@Level4outbreak

No it is not too late. I'm giving more time for more OC's to appear. But I am planning on making another draft soon. Yours will be in it

@BSoD

This thread won't derail on Rainbow Dash's watch!

Phew. Wayyyyy too close, we got to keep a check on that. Stand back, allow the last topic fumes to scatter. rimshot

Alright you guys, BSoD is trying to re-rail the thread. That should not be a signal to derail it more</>. Let's get back on track here.

[clears throat internally]

So is there going to be any shipping IN the family photo? Or are we going to leave the immense sexual tension that pervades this thread remain simmering under the surface, ready to squirt burst forth at a moment's notice?

Just place Kewln00b Poni [Name Pending] in the background in the forever alone corner and you can ship all the OC's you want.

Afterall, he DOES have that Background character quality about him because he's a Colt and Colts are not worthy of being main characters holy shit I just called my own OC a Background pony….

@Platus

For the photo I was going to make, no. I never had any plans to do that.

I've got Fifth's OC clearly showing an affection for me in the photo but that's about it. My own OC will ignore that. I plan on making another pose that shows just me being me.

I think that's fair for everyone else because nobody else in the photo is in a shippable pose, nor did they ask to be shipped. Some people might not want their OC featured in that context anyway.

If you want a family photo that does ship users together. You are more than welcome to make it yourself

Yeah, I don't think most of these OC's poses screams "I'm banging the pony next to me."

Well, I was just saying – because clearly my OC is exactly the kind of pony(?) that everyone wants to glompcudddle all the way to the moon.

Shipping is Magic