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I feel like some aspects of these differences first became obvious to me around the time when the Gamergate controversy was first kicking into gear. People who primarily left comments on the site were more of the "pro" side who often showed "anti-SJW" tendencies. Meanwhile in the forums most were people who found aspects about Gamergate and those that take it seriously (regardless of "side") to be laughable, and often find the "anti-SJW" sentiment among "comments only" people to be "equally as annoying, if not worse than, how SJWs act."

I sometimes wonder if a reason for such a noticeable difference in the "comment" and "forum" cultures has to do with how much more frequently moderators stick to the forums. Moderators have to deal with seeing comments and uploads almost all day, so I feel mods have probably become very "tired" of some of the aspects of those who only comment on this site and nothing more. I mean heck in Riff-Raff there's a thread dedicated specifically to mocking comments from the site, and often it's the moderators who post them.

And yeah if you're wondering "what's the purpose of this thread?" it's really just me making a random observation at 3:30 AM EST. I try to usually avoid these "late night posting" type things you might see on Twitter or Tumblr, but sometimes random musings just come to me when I'm in that state of "tired, but not tired enough to go to bed."

It really boils down to a few things;

• No base level moderators have comment powers. There is just nobody around to enforce that large ass userbase, we'd need like 20-30 guys for an initial cleanup if we did start enforcing.
• Forum and Comment code are inherently different. Misbehavior in the forums can leave a permanent mark on your record so people are more willing to put a few more seconds into their post.
• Comment section is infinitely big. While the forums only have maybe 30-40 active threads on any one day and can be actively scanned and sweeped, a misdemeanor on an older image or entry comments section can go for months or even years before a moderator actually spots it.

The mod team discussed before how to handle the situation, but general consensus was that it was "fine" and we shouldn't do anything about it. Though I still personally feel upvote/downvotes should leave some kind of mark on profiles, and image comments should lock after a certain period.

Er, scratch that. It's waaaaaaaaay too late to implement stuff like that to change anything. Not without that previously said 30-man-team.

I'd also say that it's maybe the fact that it's easier for "newer" members to unironically shitpost on the comments then it is on the forums. I've noticed that the forums is usually for users that have stayed for quite a bit of time (hell, I've been on this site for over a year now I think and I only just started lurking the forums a few months ago).
¯\(ツ)/¯

Besides what Natsuru Springfield said, I think it might have a bit to do with how "difficult" it is to find the forums. I remember encountering quite a few users who did not discover that the site even had a forum until having used the comment sections for many months, sometimes much longer. I would imagine that new users tend to make low effort posts and 'bad' users do not stick on one site for long, so the fact that the forum takes a while to get into helps weed out those elements of poor quality.

To add my two cents, I think it's also because almost every Dontroversy that gets frontpaged is tailored to act as red meat for the anti-SJW hordes. That ensures that those types dominate the comments section.

@Natsuru

The mod team discussed before how to handle the situation, but general consensus was that it was “fine” and we shouldn’t do anything about it.

I'd hardly call people sincerely advocating genocide "fine." The site has become inundated with /pol/ maniacs, and at this point, the "unwarranted obscenity" rule may as well not even exist.

I understand the difficulties involved in keeping the comments in check, but something needs to be done to keep the site from devolving into pseudo-4chan.

Does it really? I mean come on, let's be honest here. Does it really sound like a good idea to give the shitty attention seeking edgelords who make those comments the attention they want? Or to make drastic and sweeping changes that'll only fuel more antagonistic comments and give them fake justification for their dumb crusades?

Or is it better to just let them burn themselves out in the comments, not giving them the attention they crave, and let them squabble over meaningless votes like this were reddit.

But that's not what's been happening. Users like Hrom and Problematic Shitlord still get attention from the other commenters, and never end up burning out. And even for the ones who do leave, more will come to replace them. What's more attractive to a /pol/ maniac than an essentially unmoderated community with plenty of equally insane users?

The comments section on this site is continually growing worse, and it's going to stay that way as long as we sit here and say it's "fine."

No base level moderators have comment powers. There is just nobody around to enforce that large ass userbase, we’d need like 20-30 guys for an initial cleanup if we did start enforcing.

You don't need comment powers to enforce the rules on the comment section, though. The only thing you can do with comment powers is marking comments as NSFW or delete them, nothing else. Enforcing the general rules is inherent to a mod, having powers for one specific section doesn't exempt you of performing your overall duties.

And it's not a problem of man-force either since the comment section is not that big, it is when you compare it to the forums. We have a system that counts the number of warnings and its reason which makes it easier when it comes to tracking someone's behavior, especially problematic commentators.

The only problem is how you enforce the rules on a place that was never meant to hold discussions. There is also the problem of lazy mods but I'm gonna leave that matter aside for now.

The mod team discussed before how to handle the situation, but general consensus was that it was “fine” and we shouldn’t do anything about it

We weren't sastisfied with how the comment section was getting out of control but hell no, we were not okay with leaving it as it is. That would be complete neglicence from our part.

Final consensus was that enforcing certain rules was not possible and we shouldn't proceed before getting a solid set of guidelines for that section.

The site has become inundated with /pol/ maniacs, and at this point, the “unwarranted obscenity” rule may as well not even exist.

Oh god you don't know how much I want to kick them out of here. It's going to be a problem to do that without turning it into a witch hunt.

Or is it better to just let them burn themselves out in the comments, not giving them the attention they crave, and let them squabble over meaningless votes like this were reddit.

Yeah… that's called neglicence. We ain't stepping into their levels.

There are 2 fundamental rules that makes the forum go around without turning into the thing that is the comment section. Stay on topic and behave.

We enforce the behave rule but it's impossible to enforce people to stay on topic. Only in extreme cases of derailment like with the GG comment section, which ended with the whole thing moving to the forums.

Outside of that you can't really tell people, "Hey, stay on topic in here". It takes away the whole point of commenting.

the thing is, is that they will never burn themselves out. The amount of red-pill, /pol/ bullshit on this site had a dramatic increase when GG first happened, and it has yet to show any signs of slowing down or stopping.

I used to post in the comment section quite a bit, over 2000 comments if im not mistaken. But once it started getting taken over by red-pills i pretty much stopped commenting, except to get into arguments with those exact people.

I don't really see the problem and suspect that most of the "shitposting" being railed against is really just a difference of opinion. I like posting in both the comments and forums. Neither one seems better or worse to me. True, some entries' comment sections go too far in their anti-SJW rhetoric, but the majority are fine. And this stuff goes both ways. While the comment sections are sometimes overly indulgent in GamerGate nonsense, the forums can get pretty stuck up, like when everybody acted outrageously outraged over the backlash to left-wing orthodoxy represented in the Assigned Male entry.

If a decision is made to more strongly moderate the comments section, I would advise to be careful on drawing the line on what is and isn't allowable. It's true there is a lot of super radical right wing stuff that goes to far, but it's very easy to slip from "You can't say that all transgender people and muslims should be butchered and thrown in a landfill" to "You can't say that you don't think highly of the issues transgender and muslim people face" and then to "You can't say you think moderate or conservative views on the topics of transgender and muslim people are ones you support". Many discussion forums have gone down that path, and I think the reason a lot of people like the one here is because it hasn't.

I would think – Objectively speaking – the first thing you'd have to consider is weather or not this is actually jeopardizing the well being of the site. As much as I don't want to see KYM become 4chan I REALLY don't want to see it become Reddit.

Trust me, I NEVER thought the comment section was "fine", and I think it's fair to say I did a lot of work on trying to improve comment moderation. I know exactly the problem that stopped any of the ideas brought up going through, but I'm not one for naming and shaming so I'll leave it at that. Either way, I always said, without finding some way to stop them circlejerking each other all they would do is get worse and worse and steadily more awful to the point where moderating it would be even more impossible, and lo and behold look what happened.

I find it funny how a lot of people get worried that any increased moderation would lead to a slippery slope, ending with us just straight up banning conservative opinions, when as it stands currently left wing/"SJW" opinions might as well be banned for the reactions and attacks they get. Oh well, the damage is done now, maybe it could be fixed if we had all mods on deck policing it, but lol if that will ever happen.

As awful as /pol/ack opinions may be, at the end of the day opinions are opinions and those are allowed. But there's a difference between allowing opinions; and allowing hate speech, public shaming, harassment, threatening, and just straight out godawful behavior. If they go down that route, and considering /pol/acks they will (and have), we can and will jump in.

Outside of the "Behave" rule which we can apply, there's a specific part in the rules for media submissions on what isn't allowed: "Unwarranted obscenity in racist, sexist and homophobic context"

You could easily change and apply that one to the comments. People disagreeing with the existance of trans for example would still be fine, it might appear hateful but at the end of the day disagreements are a natural thing; but comments which basically tell you to kill all muslims would get a nice warning/suspension because that's not the type of behavior a PG-13 site should promote.

(Which seems to be something people like to forget: We're a PG-13 site, not 4chan R-18 tier.)

I would think – Objectively speaking – the first thing you’d have to consider is weather or not this is actually jeopardizing the well being of the site. As much as I don’t want to see KYM become 4chan I REALLY don’t want to see it become Reddit.

That's implying we would lock entire comment sections and straight up delete anything controversional or against the moderating.

Which we won't.

Either way, I always said, without finding some way to stop them circlejerking each other all they would do is get worse and worse and steadily more awful to the point where moderating it would be even more impossible, and lo and behold look what happened.

You're jerking yourself harder than the comment sections there.

So far I believe people have been excluding a reverse view of this I have due to my unique level of downvotes.

When making this post the first thought that pops into my mind is: I'm probably going to get downvoted for this. I get a permanent reputation on the site for having downvotes regardless of if I believe they are deserved. When people ever see my profile they will see that the majority of my karma is negative, and will thus conclude "because the majority of people dislike this user's forum posts, this user must thus be bad."

In a comments sections that isn't an issue. I can be HONEST, and not fear if I'm going to have a REPUTATION for not being liked. This system is inherently flawed when you realize the fact the ONLY way you get ahead is if you CIRCLEJERK to what the forums WANT to hear. Otherwise, you will gain a reputation against you depending on how different you honestly are from everyone else. Maybe I am in the wrong to a degree, maybe I just don't fit into the forums, maybe both. But a karma system shouldn't be used as an automatic basis of judging people which it is used for and removes a level of honesty people might otherwise have. If I have lots of downvotes that always appear on my profile, that sends the message I should LEAVE and NOT POST. In a comments section you don't deal with that.

This in itself is a massive difference and the defining difference between the forums and comment sections: forums reward consistently agreeing with everyone and punish consistently disagreeing with everyone; comment sections let you say what you think without a whole lot of fear of being rewarded or punished beyond the immediate upvotes and downvotes of that single post. That reputation system is a mild form of social censorship because it makes you want to speak like everyone else rather than speak honestly.

The karma system of the forums promotes not being your honest self toward others and I think it's a sick system.

I remember RandomMan telling me that the presence of the anti's greatly outnumber the SJWs 5 to 1. I guess that's why the comments seemed so circlejerky. Given that the forums operate within a smaller environment, that issue is much more subdued.

And why do I have this feeling that all the Anita Sarkeesian videos and controversial entries by Don are a means of toying with the anti's and adding fuel to the fire? I can't imagine this spreading to the forums if the comments section can get this chaotic.

I've done a pretty hard 180 over my opinions regarding social justice, feminism, and gamergate over the past few months (I don't suck up everything progressive or leftist I just try to remain open-minded) and I think that has allowed me to see the comments section in a whole new light.

The issue is complicated tbh. Most people here don't really have rock-solid positions on anything but instead respond based on feelings and whats most popular as a reaction within their own online community. (thats how my opinions on politics were formed)

Kym is just full of the same people from the GG early days. There is such a serious boogeyman mentality regarding controversies relating to female characters or sexuality in gaming e.g. Dead or Alive, Fire Emblem that people become ultra-defensive against anything that even mildly looks like Social Justice stuff which is probabl a result of GG.

I blame GG for the sea of garbage the comments section has become (no I don't mean different opinions I mean hate-speech)

Wyn wrote:

So far I believe people have been excluding a reverse view of this I have due to my unique level of downvotes. When making this post the first thought that pops into my mind is: I’m probably going to get downvoted for this.

If I'd downvote that post, it'd be over the fact that you made it about yourself in less than one sentence. Egos don't do a post's quality well, regardless of it being you or someone else.

In a comments sections that isn’t an issue. I can be HONEST, and not fear if I’m going to have a REPUTATION for not being liked. This system is inherently flawed when you realize the fact the ONLY way you get ahead is if you CIRCLEJERK to what the forums WANT to hear. Otherwise, you will gain a reputation against you depending on how different you honestly are from everyone else. Maybe I am in the wrong to a degree, maybe I just don’t fit into the forums, maybe both. But a karma system shouldn’t be used as an automatic basis of judging people which it is used for and removes a level of honesty people might otherwise have. If I have lots of downvotes that always appear on my profile, that sends the message I should LEAVE and NOT POST. In a comments section you don’t deal with that.

That's baloney on various levels.

Various users known to commonly share controversional opinions or opinions that go heavily against the majority opinion have gained a reputation over it because of it. For a long while, Lisa was the #1 Facebook poster people refused to take serious and ganged up against because of it, with her reputation only fueling that behavior. And even now various users on both sides, left or right, have gained reputations that influence how others react to their comments.

It's absolute bullshit that commentators can't get reputations. Some even have their reputations reach out to the forum.

Also how are comment up- and downvotes different than forum karma when it comes to single posts? If a commenter finds his post buried, he's giving the same idea of how the majority looks at his opinion as someone posting on the forum would.

Hell, in that regard the comment up- and downvotes are even worse. On the forum, -10 is rare and -20 is exceptional. On the comments, -30 isn't really out of the question. Likewise, circlejerking on the forum can get you +30 in exceptional cases, whereas on the comments you can reach +100. Then the comments even add the "Top Comments" section, which influences how likely people are going to hit that circlejerk in order to reach a top comment.

The comments leave no permanent mark on your profile, but hit much harder on how people write single comments due to the density of the users on there compared to the forum.

The forums influence the long run, the comments the short run. And on an internet community with its short attention span, it's the short run that's gonna influence comments and posts. People want to look back at their comment/posts and see those upboats, and will only look at their total karma secondary.

The karma system of the forums promotes not being your honest self toward others and I think it’s a sick system.

I'd say the comment up- and downvotes have it worse.

The forums will give you the benefit of doubt if you explain your case well and are a lot more likely to reply as well. The comments just hit the downvote button and let you drown in that -50 score.

Which would you say influences a person's likeliness to return more?

@RandomMan

My opinion on the comments isn't exactly a new thing, it's one I've held for, well, years at this point, and if I recall, back then when I was saying these same exact things about the problems of the comments I was actually getting support. I don't see how all of a sudden I've become somehow worse than the comment section for saying the same thing I've always said

Am I saying you're worse then? Am I implying I no longer believe the comments need some moderating? Those are bold claims.

I'm just pointing out irony. It's hardly the focus of my post.

"If I’d downvote that post, it’d be over the fact that you made it about yourself in less than one sentence. Egos don’t do a post’s quality well."

I understand that I am talking about myself, but it is a personal experience I am sharing that involves me, so yes I spoke about myself. There is nothing wrong about talking about yourself; especially when it applies to the situation. If that is egotism then I see nothing wrong with it and I don't believe you should either.

"That’s baloney on various levels.
Various users known to commonly share controversional opinions or opinions that go heavily against the majority opinion have gained a reputation over it because of it. For a long while, Lisa was the #1 Facebook poster people refused to take serious and ganged up against because of it, with her reputation only fueling that behavior. And even now various users on both sides, left or right, have gained reputations that influence how others react to their comments."

That sounds like you thus should dislike the reputation built by the karma system because it was causing people to misbehave toward her. Unless… you enjoy that side of the karma system.

"It’s absolute bullshit that commentators can’t get reputations. Some even have their reputations reach out to the forum."

You believe it is bullshit commentators can't get reputations, for what reason? A reputation that is shown to everyone will motivate people to speak to you based on how much the community generally agrees with you rather than based on how much they agree with you in that particular moment. I believe reputations are also again the bane, of creativity and honesty, because they ensure the user who's posting in the forums will act according to what everyone likes rather than according to who they honestly are. If the karma system was not there I would bet with absolute certainty people would be far more honest and creative with their posts.

"Also how are comment up- and downvotes different than forum karma when it comes to single posts? If a commenter finds his post buried, he’s giving the same idea of how the majority looks at his opinion as someone posting on the forum would."

There's a significant deal of difference. Firstly, you get drastically more upvotes and downvotes in comment sections, meaning you're getting a better guage of what everyone that enjoys memes think of what you said rather than what a niche audience of lovers/haters on the forums thinks. Next, if a post gets buried in forums, it signifies those downvotes are now in your permanent reputation and you have to 'work' to undo them or forever have those posts against you. In a comment section if you get buried you think "hm, I guess they don't agree with me; that's a shame" and move on to the next post to comment on without a care in the world.

"Hell, in that regard the comment up- and downvotes are even worse. On the forum, -10 is rare and -20 is exceptional. On the comments, -30 isn’t really out of the question. Likewise, circlejerking on the forum can get you +30 in exceptional cases, whereas on the comments you can reach +100. Then the comments even add the “Top Comments” section, which influences how likely people are going to hit that circlejerk in order to reach a top comment."

You are not wrong in this area of your argument and I thus concede this point. The two top comments promote circlejerking to the absolute maximum and basically the first two people to type semi-clever comments win those slots unless an even more genius comment appears near the time of when those first two comments were posted. But, in regard to people gaining lots of likes and dislikes in the comment sections, I believe that does not promote circle/hatejerking, but simply displays a better guage of what people think (so long as these comments are not one of the top 2 comments) and is thus significantly more fair because lots of a general audience is seeing the statement, rather than say, a biased niche audience in the upvote club a la mods.

"The comments leave no permanent mark on your profile, but hit much harder on how people write single comments due to the density of the users on there compared to the forum."

I would say completely no to this statement. In comment sections I can say what I am thinking without worrying about a permanent mass of downvotes in my reputation, whereas in forums I do. Thus, I take the forum comments significantly more seriously. You know what I originally never went on the forums in my first couple years? Because I found it really hard to gain upvotes unless you already had lots of them or had some mod title contributing. The forums are built so only people who are already here have the advantage; outsiders are at a disadvantage 100% of the time and have to work to gain a reputation which is only gained by being agreeable to the point of not being yourself. The density of the more generalized audience can easily be handled because they are going to upvote what's fresh, pleasing, and logical. In the forums circlejerking is what gets upvoted far too often.

"The forums influence the long run, the comments the short run. And on an internet comment section with its short attention spam, it’s the short run that’s gonna influence comments. People want to look back at their comment and see those upboats."

What this means is the forums ensure that depending on what you've posted in the past, that determines your future with near certainty, whereas in the comments you're free to post depending on what you're feeling is correct at the time. Sounds to me like the forums hold you back if you don't want to circlejerk and instead want to instead post based on your mood and thoughts at the time since, all posts are made in the short-term save for the ones made in forums for long-term karma savings. People want to see likes yeah, but they should desire likes for saying something clever, high quality, meaningful, etc. I see far less of that in forums because people are discouraged from the innovation required to post that kind of content (aka circlejerk mentality of the forums is corrupting the meme youth).

"I’d say the comment up- and downvotes have it worse."

I'd say the comment up- and downvotes have it better because there isn't some extra social dynamic of a niche audience you have to keep attracted to you along with a karma reputation system you have to keep positive and growing by circlejerking.

"The forums will give you the benefit of doubt if you explain your case well and are a lot more likely to reply as well. The comments just hit the downvote button and let you drown in that -50 score."

I believe you're ridiculously wrong. The only comments I ever see buried in comment sections are the hateful or ignorant ones. Often the buried ones in forums can end up just being opinions not everyone agrees with but don't really deserve all that many downvotes. The forums will not give you the benefit of the doubt and will double-whammy you with negative karma when you try justifying a comment that already has negative karma; again because they disagree with your opinion.

"Which would you say influences a person’s likeliness to return more?"

An average user would likely never leave over being buried repeatedly in a comment section because those posts can be forgotten and they'll always have a new chance to try again. An average user would be significantly more motivated to leave over being buried repeatedly in a forum section because those posts won't be forgotten and they'll only be able to try circlejerking the community in their favor to make up the points, rather than trying to post how they feel matches what they feel like they really want to.

Well the line "You’re jerking yourself harder than the comment sections there." is what I referenced by "worse than the comment section", and I did not insinuate that you didn't believe in comment moderation at all, I'm just defending myself where I'm genuinely confused how what I'm saying is somehow a bad thing when before it wasn't. I'm not trying to say "Wow I was right all along you guys should really listen to me more" and I apologise if that's what came across, but this is more me channelling 2+ years of frustration about the state of the comments that you know I've always tried to work on. I WISH I was wrong, then there'd be no issue. At the end of the day we're both saying the same thing, more moderation is needed.

Reddit is like the Wild West

Wyn wrote:

There’s a significant deal of difference. Firstly, you get drastically more upvotes and downvotes in comment sections, meaning you’re getting a better guage of what everyone that enjoys memes think of what you said

This entire thread mentions the full on circlejerk mentality that has grown significantly in the comment section.

How are those numbers a good gauge of how your comment is received when 90% of those votes are still the result of an echo chamber?

And even if that echo-chamber wasn't there, isn't your point of getting a good gauge of the majority opininion still pushing people to comment within a certain mindset?

rather than what a niche audience of lovers/haters on the forums thinks. Next, if a post gets buried in forums, it signifies those downvotes are now in your permanent reputation and you have to ‘work’ to undo them or forever have those posts against you.

That point doesn't apply to newcomers, as newcomers aren't aware of the forum community. They will post in the forum with the same lack of expectations as they would make comments.

In a comment section if you get buried you think “hm, I guess they don’t agree with me; that’s a shame” and move on to the next post to comment on without a care in the world.

I'd disagree with that. Numerous users have become afraid to share their opinion in the comment section because they believe they'll be mauled for it. You are underestimating the effect (the risk of) mass downvotes on a single comment can have on some people.

The thread OP even starts with a mention how people "left" the comment section following an influx of a certain mindset.

I would say completely no to this statement. In comment sections I can say what I am thinking without worrying about a permanent mass of downvotes in my reputation, whereas in forums I do. Thus, I take the forum comments significantly more seriously.

We want people to apply more substance to their forum posts and take those more serious than their comments. It's a forum, not a comment section. How both should be used is even in the name.

If people take their forum posts more serious because of karma, I'd say the karma system has done its job.

An average user would likely never leave over being buried repeatedly in a comment section because those posts can be forgotten and they’ll always have a new chance to try again.

Your ignorance is absolutely mind-boggling. I can't even bring up a counter-argument because it's just that stupid. You are clearly unaware of how people will receive their comments being downvoted all the time. You utterly lack understanding of how others might think in those situations.

An average user would very likely stop commenting on the site if their comments are constantly downvoted. They will not find it worth their time fighting a stampede.

R21 wrote:

At the end of the day we’re both saying the same thing, more moderation is needed.

Pfffft you sound way more resentful since you came back, maybe it's just me. Although I also agree to more moderation on the comment section.

There is nothing wrong about talking about yourself

True, but the base of your claims is none other than yourself. Your grudge towards the forum is very clear, may it be justified or not.

It's just an one sided story, not a complete vision of what this forum actually is. You can find a very different side of the forums on this very same thread.

An average user would very likely stop commenting on the site if their comments are constantly downvoted. They will not fight it worth their time fighting a stampede

I'd like to point out as well we HAVE had a few cases of people who did leave over it. I can't remember her name, but I remember a user who got a bad reputation for being very pro-SJ, to the point where she deactivated. There have been other cases, but I can't name them off the top of my head.

Pfffft you sound way more resentful since you came back, maybe it’s just me. Although I also agree to more moderation on the comment section.

This is actually concerning me, have I really been that miserable? I don't want to seem like an asshole. In fact I've generally been happier with the site since I've got back! We've actually been getting shit done! I'm actually kinda content with how the site currently functions, for the most part.

It's not the forums, it's the fundamental way they're run. Moderators circlejerk and basically have a monopoly on the hivemind mentality, often bending it in hateful ways to meet their means. There are very few I'd say this DOESN'T apply to. Then the karma system further reinforces a system of circlejerking.

Now that I think about it, they should just call the forums /r/circlejerk.

I do invite you to give me the complete vision if I'm missing something.

I would say the main thing is the difference in effort.

Forums require you to go into the section, search out a thread, then post in it. You have to go out of your way to post.

Comments on the other hand, often are an afterthought. Usually some small tidbit or maybe a reaction face; people generally don't put that much thought into a comment.

I think we've touched on this before, and I'm glad that I'm not the only one that feels the same way. (This account may be less than a year old, but I've lurked longer than that.)

I guess that just like there's always something popular for a time, like a trend or a fad, there's pockets and flares of anti-popularity. From what I remember, it was mostly ponies for a while, then a brief transition period that included hipsters, and now it's "the sjws." There were brief periods that caused strongly divided feelings, like doge and Twitch Plays Pokemon, but nobody even seems to remember those feelings, despite them not existing more than 4 years ago.

I realize this is like 100 years in like internet time, but that just gives me hope that eventually hearing the same "triggered" (and other associated) jokes over and over gets a little old after a while.

I don't mean to imply anything about the people who say these jokes or the ideas associated with them, but come on, that horse is dead-- please stop beating it already. Even if new controversies keep coming up, it would be nice to hear a new joke to come with it, at the very least.

The rift between the comments and forum is pretty easy to explain. You go to pretty much any part of the site--imagesd, videos, entries--and there's a coment section. They're pretty ubiqutious. The formusm are much more isolated, and so have developed differently--more slowly and patiently--than the comments have. Over time, this has lead to just about two entirely different communities developing.

I didn't see the big deal over the "toxic" comments in the last ten threads that this issue was brought up and I really still don't. Controversial entries dealing with politics, religion, etc. are always going to inflame things and get the left and right to dig in. Adding a hundred more mods won't change that.

And for the record, I am worried about overmoderating the comments. Every time I go to Reddit, I'm reminded what overmoderating does to communities. I'd rather have a wide range of opinions and discussions, than one big, safe, nonoffensive circlejerk. If there has to be some neonazis and ultramationalists in the mix, then that's the reason there's the downvote button and linking to the edgy entry.

The problem with unmoderated or lightly moderated comments, though, is that the most repugnant individuals end up driving away everyone else and turning the area into a massive safe space for themselves. They then have the power in numbers to downvote into oblivion and drown out dissenters.

But that happens in almost every serious debate or current event thread, yet nobody brings those up with the same prophesied pandemonium as the comments.

I'm going to make a more in depth post about the differences, since, for the first 2 or so years I only used comments, and now I almost never look at comments unless an entry is trending, it's on my image, or to see the Good Friggin comment thread to see if a user needs a warning.

However, Epyc's post does illustrate one of the better instances between the comments and forums. If on the forums you said "the mods on Know Your Meme suck, they should all be banned" you will likely get buried, or ath least have net negative karma" If, especially during the heyday of gamergate, or earlier during Cringeworthy, or even the Childhood galleries issues after locking the comments or gallery, saying the exact same thing could make top comment.

As for the comments section in general, my favorite example after this Don joke is this comment about user who acts so smugly how they single handedly debunked a claim in the image, and despite the fact that anyone who knows anything about the source materiel would call Bullshit on it. The fact someone responds this way isn't the problem (Sturgeon's law) so much as the comment precedes to gain karma even after the post explaining why this isn't a valid rebuttal is posted, which gains a net -1. I don't get how Epyc can think that forums are all just once big circle jerk, that is so unlike the comments section. Both can be bad, but at least the forums seems to reward you for actual thought, where as comments seem to go for over the top reactions and whatever sounds funny, no matter how wrong it actually is.

Tl;dr something controversial happened, flamewars everywhere, memes and jokes were made, once it died down everyone forgets about it and moved on to the next shitstorm. It's like Chirs-chan's antics again. Kinda pointless really.

Especially if it's about a combination of identity politics and video games as told by bored twenty-somethings with a decent computer and an internet plan.

I would've got a job by then.

Good points. I believe it's more than simply saying "all mods suck," since there have been a slew of specific criticisms (most admittedly sourced from me) but that's not the main focus for this thread. I'll simply point out ANY criticism of mods in any instance, unless coming from another mod, is consistently downvoted to oblivion; since mods are the head honchos of the sociology of the forums and aren't going to want that shit to fly.

Outright hate rhetoric also gets upvoted often in forums very often, while it'd almost certainly be downvoted to oblivion or just ignored in comment sections. It's difficult to prove that beyond personal experience but I believe people will agree there is a lot more specific calling out of users in forums than in comment sections; whereas in comment sections there is only calling out of posts rather than the users posting them. It also be should be noted that attacking the person rather than the argument is considered a major fallacy in argument, so it's probably a bad thing such calling out occurs.

People in forums focus on the person behind the post far more than the post itself and base their opinions of the user on their karma; to the detriment of future posts being downvoted/upvoted BECAUSE they come from that person without regard to much of the post's content.

I suppose it's more than an issue of circlejerking; it's an issue of prejudging posts based on who's posting in forums and it's a pretty blatant issue.

I'd like to expland on yummie's post above.
I see it from a more technical aspect. "Technical" as in "technology". Basically, i don't think there's too much effort because by the very design, it's harder to put the effort in the comments than the forums, as there's no edit function, and a way lower character limit (what was the forums' character limit, if there is such a thing?). It's very fire and forget, putting a (comparately) short discourse (i'd like to compare it to twitter, it's easy to present your idea, but harder to explain the logic [or "logic"] behind it), which you can't alter later aside of deleting it or making multiple consecutive posts, checking your textile is a pain because you need to delete it and post it again to see if you did it correctly. I'll give Epyc Wyn the credit for bringing up the mechanics of karma, which i didn't consider before.

Talking about the "mods suck" example, i wasn't very involved in the site back then with ruined childhood and cringeworthy, but wasn't it related to the reason that the galleries have been locked? I do recall someone on the forums saying it was because it was too broad, posting pretty much "anything i dislike". (Personally i dislike these memes because i consider it to be mostly used by people with little familiarity towards rule 34, or people intentionally looking for trash, or wanting a sense of superiority) As in "mods suck for allowing this on the site".

Your point is completely valid but let me point out something about WHY forum posts get more logic infused into them than typical comments. Forum posts often do incorporate a great deal more logic due to 'fear' of the fact you can't delete the post later and 'fear' that you will get downvotes for not explaining well enough. However I am not a big fan of a 'fear'-based mechanic which may promote logic but is simultaneously doing so in an under-handed manner.

Forum posts often do incorporate a great deal more logic due to ‘fear’ of the fact you can’t delete the post later and ‘fear’ that you will get downvotes for not explaining well enough.

You are seeing spooks, man. I assure you that a big part of the forum regulars aren't afraid of posting here, why bother posting otherwise? If you like the forums, post in it. If you don't, don't force yourself to do something you don't like.

You may have a point (or not), but I think you're just pushing your experience down our throats without a real basis outside your grudge towards the mod team and the forums.

But eh, that's just me and how I perceive your posts.

Doesn’t mean we’re planning to carpet bomb the comment sections.

Shhh, once they realize our real plans it will be too late. Everyone knows that mods are evil by default.

Moderating the comments more =/= Over-moderating the comments.

What we're saying is that we've neglected the section a bit too much. It's not difficult and requires little effort to mod an area more when it originally was barely moderated. Doesn't mean we're planning to carpet bomb the comment sections.

Aka calm your tits.

I’ll simply point out ANY criticism of mods in any instance, unless coming from another mod, is consistently downvoted to oblivion; since mods are the head honchos of the sociology of the forums and aren’t going to want that shit to fly.

Isn't the vote score on your posts in this very thread a solid counter? Even your first post which is basically a big jerk over yourself is still sitting at 0/0.

People in forums focus on the person behind the post far more than the post itself and base their opinions of the user on their karma; to the detriment of future posts being downvoted/upvoted BECAUSE they come from that person without regard to much of the post’s content.

So you're implying people shouldn't strive to gain an identity in a much closer community that is our forum compared to our comment section? That everyone should remain a nobody? This isn't 4chan where being anonymous is king, this a regular forum where people will want to identify themselves from the rest.

People in forums focus on the person behind the post far more than the post itself and base their opinions of the user on their karma; to the detriment of future posts being downvoted/upvoted BECAUSE they come from that person without regard to much of the post’s content.

This is an argument that runs on yourself as its basis, and you're applying your own situation to the general one.

Wyn, you said in your first point on this thread that your vote score is "unique". And that is correct, you are an outlier. You can't use the outlier as the standard for comparing. There's a reason it's called an outlier. Any scientific batch of data would ditch the outlier immediately, as they cannot be applied to the rest of the data.

No offense, but simply said you can't use yourself as a proper comparison, because you simply are the worst comparison there is in this discussion. Nobody will ever be able to relate to you.

Forum posts often do incorporate a great deal more logic due to ‘fear’ of the fact you can’t delete the post later and ‘fear’ that you will get downvotes for not explaining well enough. However I am not a big fan of a ‘fear’-based mechanic which may promote logic but is simultaneously doing so in an under-handed manner.

You call it fear, we call it awareness. Forcing people to be aware of what they post before they post it is exactly why we keep the delete limit in place (that, and troll countering). It promotes quality.

Also you're >implying people don't deserve some punishment for doing a godawful job at making a post.

From what I'm reading in your latests posts, you're telling a forum it's bad for doing things that a make a place a forum. You're accusing a forum for not being like a comment section or an image board. People gaining identities, asking its posters to think before they post, evolving into its own sort-off community, those are all things natural to a forum. A forum is a forum, and shouldn't strive to be something else.

It's clear that a forum setting isn't your type of thing. So why are you expecting forums to adapt to you? If you're a soccer player but don't like the sport and are more into american football, why would you tell soccer it's bad for not being like american football instead of changing sports?

{ People in forums focus on the person behind the post far more than the post itself and base their opinions of the user on their karma; to the detriment of future posts being downvoted/upvoted BECAUSE they come from that person without regard to much of the post’s content. }

That's like the exact opposite of what happens, people will actually debate with you in the forums, but even innocuous comments of mine on trending images/etc get immediately downvoted or aggressive responses just because it's me.

I'm immediately reminded of my comment on this image.

No offense, but simply said you can’t use yourself as a proper comparison, because you simply are the worst comparison there is in this discussion

I think what RM is trying to say boils down to

@Epyc

So far you have used yourself as the example but ¿can you support your claims without relating to your own experience? Give us proof to back up that what you say is, in fact, true rather than just your own distorted vision of the forums.

The comment section has always seemed to me to be the fast food of KYM. You don't expect to have a long conversation or a debate: that is what the forums section is for. Most people seem to comment in order to get a quick reaction and a couple upvotes (or downvotes if someone is trolling). Rather than being designed for serious thought, most comments tend to be ironic or funny. This sort of casual atmosphere is going to attract newer posters and less serious posters, and that means less quality posters.

The comment behavior and personality is pretty disgusting as if /pol/ and/or Reddit invaded the comments. If we started banning people who spew racist, sexist, and/or homophobic behavior, then people would accuse KYM and the mods of being biased SJWs or imposing censorship towards their free speech. The forums are well organized for debate most of the time with the exception of Riff Raff. Now, if I was given the choice of allowing trolls and bigots free speech in the comments or becoming strict with comment censorship and be accused of being a "SJW" then I would rather be a SJW than an anti-SJW.

We're not gonna ban people for having opinions you dislike. C'est la vie.

>allow trolls and bigots free speech
>doing this is anti-sjw

Trolling and bigotry are both subjective terms and cannot be easily defined in EVERY situation, and will often vary from person to person purely due to opinion. The point of 'free speech' is so we can then proceed to refute and speak against such things. I believe it is important we do not place such absolute rules on such inabsolute measures of good and bad behavior. Such actions lead to immensely closed-minded circlejerks and would make a site very deserving of a boycott, and would likely make it an enemy of a TRUE sjw, as a TRUE sjw would NEVER desire to outright censor people. Though, I suppose there is a growing branch of sjws that believe otherwise and to them I offer the right to speak such things without fear of being censored, followed by an argument against such actions.