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Hi, I'm SicklyVivian, a regular KYM user whose made post here and there on this site since around 2015 or 2016. The reason I'm making this AMA is due to how it felt just making comments on the Keffals vs. Kiwi Farms page where I will admit, it felt great just giving some of my own take on Kiwi Farms despite having been a user on. And I will say it felt just as good as it was on another site and a discord I was a part of where I was more critical of the site as an old member.

The title is self-explanatory and it's something I of a sort I felt conflicted on making since it's on a subject matter that ties to something that is very controversial since the site its related to is one that is a cesspit in its own right like other forums and social media sites. Not to mention something toxic since looking at it, it's a part of a cringe culture even though one could justify laughing at someone being a complete fool or a legitimate loathsome individual.

For any further explanation:
I'm keeping my username on the down low for reasons, one of the reasons being that I want to move on from further and distance myself from the site thanks to how its userbase and culture changed over the years that would make me wonder why I didn't leave the site sooner.

I was a member of the infamous site Kiwi Farms since its earliest days when it was simply known as the CWCKI Forums 9-10 years ago, back when it was a site that was simply for discussions on Chris-Chan. Ask me anything about my time on the site and how I feel about then and now. I'll do what I can to answer any questions to the best of my knowledge and memories as a user over the years.

Wait so how did the vibes change over the years?

Were people not as extremist back then?

I noticed lots of uh,Profile pics of big nosed business men with tiny hats dancing with money.

I totally get there is a line between edgy humor and actual bigot shit.Ive had that happen where you're in a community that starts out taking the piss but attracts actual shit heads over time and wondering why you're even here. Was it something like that?

(Kiwi farms is such a fucked site. They absolutely did more harm then good but they did legit expose tons of Youtube pedos and frauds over the years. Its like having Hitler as a private investigator )

As far as the vibe changing over the years, it went from talking about Chris for a few months or a year before Null decided there were other people one could discuss that were lolcows. To the best of my knowledge in remembering back, many were pretty much forgetful since it was more likely to say furries were lolcows in their right because of crappy bright furry OC's or weebs being lolcows because how many would think Japan has to be like all the anime they watched and not realizing that the cartoons are just pure fiction. Hell, I can remember more in talking about groups such as SJW's (as in the kind you find on Tumblr that would actually screech about how a white guy having dreads is terrible kind rather than a normal decent person that's standing for something like LGBT rights) and love-shys (think of them as proto-incels. They slithered so incels could crawl)

As for extremism, the users back then were not the pol-tard types that would screech about trans people or black people though the first banned member we had who later got his own thread and it was for a good reason. Said member was an anti-feminist type who kept insisting Anita Sarkeesian was a lolcow when even early 2010's me thought that was dumb and beyond that, he also made some anti-SJW or anti-feminist Youtube videos. The one I can remember most was him eating a sandwich as asking if feminist were offended which honestly made me laugh just because of how stupid it was. It doesn't help that after he got banned, he made more of a fool of himself on Twitter but if one wondered when the extremist came in, that would come in at a slow rate and it wasn't until 2015 or 2016, they started to build up and from what I remember hearing, some old members noted some could of came from a banned site or forum like R/GenderCritical.

From what I could remember in my own eyes, the extremist group cased a board about articles and happenings having a sort of right wing bent but eventually after 2019, most old guard anyone that leaned left of them were more than likely to be gone. The earliest instance I can think of for any legit neo-nazi or white supremacist user was Weev, and I didn't even know he was such a thing until months later when I looked up the name. It also doesn't help the owner, Joshua Moon, has his own colorful internet history which I'll continue in another post though I will say that as far as the whole culture goes, it would eventually attract people that would be crapping it up and making the definition of lolcow go from "weirdo that lacks self-awareness or disgust others in their group" to "person I don't like. And from what one old guard told me, they may of even poured out into other subforums such as the "beauty parlor" which focused on Tumblr types iirc, never did post much on it but I know they had a thread on women at the very least, and the rat king subforum. The rat king subforum could be one example which I'll explain in another.

Yes it was pretty much like that. I never really did keep up much on lolcows beyond a few and the biggest one I could remember was pretty good at trolling people in that he managed to keep up a ruse as a gamer who thought playing COD would be enough to qualify him as a marine while thinking all muslims are terrorist. From what I can remember and know though I'm sure others would disagree, he called the place Kiwi Farms and that's where the name comes from. He has a TV Tropes article so I'll link it here.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WebVideo/DeagleNation

That said, with the change in culture and paying more attention as time thanks to other long time users, it made me wonder why I even stayed on when I wasn't even into lolcows after 2015 came. Then again, there were a few threads within the gaming and tech boards that kept my interest but with how the sites culture changed and all, even those aren't really worth it. Especially when meeting other old guards and we had our talk about the Farms and how it all got screwed. It was thanks to them I pretty much knew that at that point, it was all pretty much screwed and there's really no other reason to go on there as time passed by beyond the thread on Janke since she was a legit terrible person and the whole incest saga between Chris and Barb.

To continue from where I left off since I don't want to hit the character limit:
Null had his own colorful history prior to the Farms where he a member of a thing called the Blockland Forums. Think of it as a predecessor to Minecraft and Roblox. It was on that site that Null wasn't a good person and while this info I get is from ED which is more focused on entertainment with exaggerations and made up claims, part of his ED article is true. Now to bring one up to speed with Null, one ex-member managed to shed unsavory light on the man to me last year. In 2017, Null made a topic about white genocide and in it, he used the livestream facebook torture of a 17 year old white kid as an example and thought black people would eventually genocide white people. Even back then I thought Null was a sort of prick since I was told about his character by a fellow member in the old days but I didn't think Null would go that far. Same ex-member even noted Null hosted some sort of deadname document around December of 2015 which honestly, I should of known better back then.

Then again, I never really did venture further in everything the site had beyond some legit lolcow threads and threads that weren't focused on lolcows or screeching about normal people that weren't lolcows even if that person in question was some asshole or fool such as Kanye West. Yes, someone literally made a thread on the guy and I can't even see Kanye as a lolcow. I could also say that since I never did venture into other threads because they didn't interest me, I pretty much missed out on opportunities in seeing how other users were like.

Best opportunity I could of had when it came to seeing how at least part of the userbase was trash was something like the Rat King subforum which is where they talked about trans people and their allies. From what I was told, some of the original threads were on individuals that were disgusting people but even then, I can't even remember any of them since I only posted on three CIS people whose only terrible thing to them was just being idiots on Twitter and even with how dumb their tweets could be, I still wonder why I'd even post that beyond being caught up in stupid Twitter drama. I got no regrets on it but it's one of the things I could see as dumb or petty no matter how stupid one of the post were (one example of it being that one of them said Total Biscuit's grave deserved to be danced on because reasons) and a trans woman who had some spat with H3H3 but as far as I can remember with her, it was nothing more than a hot take or two. Then again, all my post may as well be mild and mid compared to the users that would think there was some kind of "trans agenda" out to get kids or something.

As for the part that was in parenthesis, I can't even remember anyone exposed as a fraud or a predator. There was the zoosadist but beyond my disgust at that group, I didn't pay a lot of attention since even then, I was really on and off the site around that time since I found better sites to lurk around. And besides the zoosadist, there was a disgusting man named Nick Bate though from what I can remember, it was more of his half-sister speaking out against the molestation he did to her than Nick's post being shown on Kiwi Farms or on the /cow/ chanboard that found out about him earlier.

Also on the profile pics, I haven't seen such pics but on that same note, I seen a few usernames and user post that can be much worse than big nosed businessmen. All that is enough for me to realize I should of just left the site much earlier rather than committing to the idea of my last post being "so long you unfunny jackasses and thanks for the autism."

Also to note one last thing on neo-nazi or white supremacist users or at least the earliest ones, we had at least two. One was guy with the totally family friendly name of "Fuck You" and another named "Heretics on Holiday." I wouldn't know of them being such things until after they got their own threads. Fuck You was a man who shot up two people at a school and shot himself in the head when he was stopped by a couch that acted as a barricade for the door. This was back in 2017 around December.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_High_School_shooting
While it was around that time the site would shift in culture and having more users
that I'd see as what's wrong with the Farms now vs then, I had no regrets going on Fuck You's page and leaving a post was more or less "rest in piss." Null did cover Fuck You in a video which while one could take with salt since it comes from Null himself, it was enlightening in a sense to know that both him and Null were once part of the Blockland forums. Also one last thing to note on Fuck You was that he thirsted for Heretics on Holiday.

Heretics on Holiday was a woman who actually did have an account on this site that has long been deactivated thanks to what she tried to do: a mass shooting at a shopping center in Hallifax. KYM actually has a thread on it and I'll link it here:

https://knowyourmeme.com/forums/memeory-lane/topics/32430-general-former-kym-neo-nazi-and-brony-plans-mass-columbine-style-shooting-gets-arrested

Thankfully her plans were thwarted because the Canadian Police were able to detain her and two others guys that were in on her plan.

So why did you join the Kiwifarms? Did you stay for something else?

I understand the appeal of watching a car crash unfold (partially the reason I'm on KYM), but participating in it is a whole different matter. Do you have any opinions on people who engage lolcows directly?

I joined it way back when it was the CWCki Forums. Back before Chris had things like the house fire, Bob's death, the Idea Guys, goddess delusions, Janke, and the Dimensional Merge. Back then Chris-Chan or rather the wiki itself was something I got into though it was around that time I finished high school and wondered for a year in what to do with my life. I joined the CWCki Forums when I found a throwaway account site and then joined it for real. That forum however died around late 2012 only to come back the early part of 2013. I made an account on there and posted since then. I ended up staying longer than I should have after I lost interest in lolcows around 2015. I don't know what really kept me there beyond some gaming threads or tech threads though I will admit, there was a user that gave away Humble Bundle keys which meant free games and they had a tech thread that allowed me to be a bit of a boomer in bemoaning how good some old tech was and how crappy some new tech is. Only other reason was that I was buddies with some old guards on the site though once I got them on Steam or Discord, I really should of left there completely rather than just being very on off since 2017/2018 and find some other site to go to or even better, take up an IRL hobby or even a job though me being in university at the time likely wouldn't handle both work and school like others would.

As for participating in the car crashes, I never really did engage with any lolcows. The most I did in jumping in on a thing was when Neopets got bought out and everyone made gross and offensive usernames. Never made racist ones but I did make names based off furries and bronies which I'll say was immature, funny as it was. But beyond that, no participating in car crashes save for when the forum had some lolcows visit. The earliest ones I can remember were people from Wizardchan and the love-shy forums but I never gave them attention and with the latter, I just did more of shit talking in saying how gross one of them was in his misogynistic ideas (remember, love-shys are like the cavemen ancestor of incels. They slithered so incels could crawl on the floor).

Beyond them, we did have more individual types come in such as one Croatian incel who was legitimately a disgusting man (to tl;dr, made a blog about the government should be giving him a gf, begged his mom and therapist for sex, and would likely commit sexual and physical violence upon women). We also had one that came in to try and defend himself on the down-low but he was outed. (stories of him came from a user so take with salt but tl;dr was the guy being unliked a the workplace as both a worker and an acqauintance), a guy who on Deviant Art made a crappy comic with a PPG art style that had things one would find disgusting (I think he did come around to the site once but that was so long ago), and we also had Destiny come in or someone claiming to be him but even then, I can't really see Destiny as a lolcow so much as some Youtuber I don't see any appeal towards.

It's one thing if someone made a direct response to lolcows but in something like fucking with them directly, I honestly didn't like that. Old me would find it unfunny and the troll to be a complete, current me would find it unfunny and possibly find the troll to be a complete asshole if it was more than just some dumb trolling plan. To put this in context: back then when we had a guy named Parkourdude91 going around the internet ("real name" Jace Connors except the whole thing was a ruse), one user tried to be the liquid counterpart, kind of like Liquid Chris except Liquid Jace had no charisma or humor to his schtick. When he tried to do a "petition" to get a teenage kid named SammyClassicSonicFan to smoke weed, it was unfunny as hell and got him banned even though we all knew it was a joke. Old and current me finds that shit unfunny. Now compare that to the Idea Guys. Both version of me find them unfunny as hell and they were just complete douchebags as far as I can remember reading since I never kept up on them when they were relevant. And knowing they were behind adding fuel to Chris' delusions, it's the sort of thing that disgust me, both then and now.

I will admit though that "Bundychu" from the Idea Guys era did make me laugh but that was more from a user on the Sonichu wiki photoshopping Bundy's face on the Sonichu than the sonichu itself.

Damn thanks for the insight. Its weird to think Kiwi farms was less insane at some point.

Also never heard of a female mass shooter before. I guess Kiwi farms is an equal opportunities forum in the worst ways.

One more thing, were there not a lot of outspoken people or was it more hivemindy?

I remember reading KF around the time you were active and you're 100% right about the vibe. The site's become more galvanized along with the lolcows of choice. Fitting seeing how the world outside of KF has become as well. Not to mention a lot of the more vocal idiots are post-2017 accounts; so make what you will about that.

As for an actual question: Did you think anyone on the site actually deserved to have a thread? Not counting freaks like Kero or Nick Bate.

TBH on anyone deserving a thread, I can at least recall the two lolcows that had my interest. First one went by the name of Strykerwolf. He was an obese klansman babyfur. You can already imagine why someone like that would deserve a thread and it's not just because one would think "lol furry." Only other I could imagine was some weirdo brony named Pregnant Applebloom who pretty much ran a channel about a pregnant Applebloom. The former one could talk shit about since he'd no doubt be a shitty person, the latter one could laugh or cringe since it's all fan works about a pregnant underaged horse and he bought a shirt of a pregnant Pan from Dragon Ball which he took pics of and posted online. While the latter might be a freak, he was able to have a partner so there's a sense of normalcy to that. Now if the latter was able to dial back on cringe and move past it, then good on him.

All this said, I didn't really keep up with a lot of people and lolcows to think any deserved a thread but beyond the two I mentioned as well as Chris, Parkourdude91, Nick Bates, Kero, Golden Knight (the guy with a crappy PPG style comic) and a guy named Len Shaner, there was the Croatian incel I mentioned named Marjan Siklic. For those that didn't read the previous post, tl;dr is that he's more or less one of the earliest examples of an incel, one who was desperate for sex that he begged his mom and his therapist. Besides that incel who literally posted on the Farms for some sort of attention, the only others I can think of that deserved a thread was Fuck You and Heretics on Holiday. Both of them were fucked in the head by following white supremacist BS and the like. And while one can say the Kiwi Farms had nothing of value, part of me would of disagreed at least in the thread for Heretics since it showed how much of a footprint she had on the net such as a KYM account here and the like. And this is the only value I can imagine if one wanted to know how far someone went with their shitty views but one can also disagree on its value and all.

To Your Uncle Yonker:
Honestly, it's not surprising for a site to be less insane when the original goal was just simple discussion of Chris-Chan and nothing more. Sure it sounds deranged but really, that's all it was suppose to be in just having some Chris-Chan discussion. It's no different from Reddit having its own threads of Chris-Chan. Then Null opened it to other lolcows which would eventually lead to users that would have lower standards in having people that they think have to lolcows when at worst, it's just a person that makes some crappy tweet on Twitter or stupid reddit post that aren't even really lolcow. If this was truly the case, then we'd all be lolcows because we thought orcs must be black people or because we liked or hated some movie about space wizards. That said, the Farms did have a general feel in that anything could be mocked and have a thread which honestly can be shitty in its own right, especially with the idea of lolcow becoming "person I don't like." Still, it didn't stop threads like "Trump Derangement Syndrome" going from being about post that overreact to something like Trump dumping what's left in a basket of fish food to koi" to thinking any mild and mid critique of Trump or just not liking him somehow means its "Trump Derangement Syndrome." There would no doubt be people that disliked the hive mind but as far as the ones I know or seen on the site, it was more likely off-site after they left. And from what I remember being told by a friend, a number of people left after the IP leak of users. For anyone that did bother to speak out against whatever part of the hivemind there was, there's at least one guy who used Hulk Hogan as part of his username. He started off acting like he was Hulk Hogan in the early days but around 2019 or 2020, he more or less dropped it and started throwing shit at some users and iirc that flinging was towards the users that screeched about liberals and leftist and all that.

What are your thoughts on Youtubers like Mister Metokur/Jim? By that I mean people who make their careers to just dunk on and laugh at people on the internet.

Additionally, do you consider the wider public knowing about people like Chris to be a good or bad thing?

For people like them, I did find Mister Metokur entertaining at first but then I lost interest. While his stuff was made mainly to laugh at people, it does end up being shitty since you are laughing at someone. Granted one could justify that if the person you laughed at was some batshit insane left or right winger that acts as a complete douche or a person with a fetish or some fandom obsession they wouldn't stop being creepy with and all but outside of dunking on someone like say Nick Bate, it could pretty much end up being a very asshole thing. Granted it's as I said in lost interest with Mister Metokur and all I can remember from him that was entertaining to watch was his time as Internet Aristocrat where he made fun of some anti-brony girl who I'll remember for having some criticism of bronies that could be glass houses since she drew shit that could be no better than theirs and her friend who defended her making a video that legit was crap in trying to be a comeback at Metokur. Besides that was some TGWTG video on Nostalgia Critic, Spoony, and Linkara as well as some Deviant Art videos but all those are so distant all I can remember well is Linkara liking Green M&M porn and ERP that could sound like funny cringe.

That aside for the rest of the people making careers to dunk and laugh at them, I don't even watch any of those since their internet bloodsports or whatever its called never interested me unless someone like Toad McKinley counts but Toad's stuff wasn't even laughing at someone outside of a dry joke. His was more of just noting what made a person disgusting and infamous such as one mukbang youtuber who did have her own Farms thread but that was something I didn't even pay attention to when I was on and off Kiwi Farms.

My second half of the post is going to be split since it's bigger and I'm going to cover it with more detail.

For the wider public knowing about lolcows as in people like Chris, I can't see it as good and by people like Chris, I mean someone that just doesn't realize they should not feed the trolls but staying on the down low if they do want to interact online, I mean someone that makes their own creation, original or DONUT STEEL, that even observers would find terrible and possibly worthy to make a snarky jab or quip at. And I also mean someone that engages in behavior that would make even those in the group they are in laugh or cringe at but the person being mocked themselves isn't some kind of menace to society in any way (compared to Chris in regards to Barb or Nick Bate towards two women within his life).

I do lean more towards bad though the level of that varies depending on what it is. By that I mean it ranges from a mild level where some people laugh at the person for having some fetish or fandom obsession (think of something like a brony thinking Twilight Sparkle is his wife or an adult baby) being known as you made cringe ass videos about it that even those into the fetish would mock it or even be disgusted themselves (this is where adult baby comes in because I can remember a thread on a guy that was both that and a Sonic fan. Last drama he got into was one where disgusted the ABDL community on Reddit where he made videos hiding diapers in a neighbors apartment and walking around the grounds in a diaper and shirt. I'm putting him in mildly level since this is all in reference to the fact one could come into laugh or troll him) to a bad one where you do attract a following of trolls that could fuck with you. Thinking hard on the bad level, best one I can think of was when Moleman9000 (yes, I mean the guy who was a member here) had his own following of trolls that made fun of an original creation of his.

It covered the mild level where members of the Farms and /COW/ (or a predecessor of it) laughed at how badly drawn it was and Moleman's reaction since the art made for it could rival Sonichu in terms of crayola colored drawings, and Moleman actually did speak to Null years ago but that MP3 recording is very likely gone forever, to the bad level where you likely did have trolls come into fuck with him. Most I can remember from this since I only stayed on the Farms was one of his trolls coming in from /COW/ and posting a Garry's Mod link to Steam workshop that had a character model prop of Moleman, all obviously a means of fucking with Moleman. I never browsed /COW/ or its predecessors to know how they were to Moleman but this was more or less one of the things I know that was made by trolls to directly fuck with him. I'll also admit in partaking in the threads where I laughed at his creation and joined a crowd in typing "MOLAAAAY." And even a few years later I realized it was pretty much dick since this was laughing at a guy in his late teens even though his original creation was an ugly eye sore and one of his writings for it was likely to be terrible just as much. Not trolls remorse but pretty much knowing that I laughed at guy somewhere within his high school years and pretty much a minor regardless of whether he was at least 14/15 or close to 18. All that despite whatever drama it was that made him come off as a lolcow. (All I can remember was just his original creation and butting heads with wiki admins or something like that).

The only other people I feel that could fall in this category to the best of all my knowledge were a couple bronies who literally thought Twilight Sparkle was his wife. From what I can remember in the earliest days, he was a guy that had his share of problems such as thinking Twilight Sparkle did communicate to him and that he was ex-gay (that itself made me wonder if he grew up in a religious household or area. Being "ex-gay" sounds like a set up for conversion camp horrors) that I did feel sorry for him even though he more or less did sexual things to a plushie he had of Twilight Sparkle not to mention sending a message to an artist named Kevinsano and detailing to the artist that he didn't like his wife getting porn drawings of her made. That and he also thought it was a vessel for her to speak to him through. That said, I did find him to be disgusting when he revealed to have a scat fetish and since he did bring the plushie with him, I shudder to think of it being in public even if he did heavy duty cleaning on it. The other brony was a dude that had a tulpa of one of the ponies and he'd do videos drinking wine and talking about them, that and I can recall one of the forum post mentioning the man took datura which iirc was a dangerous poisonous plant. What made me feel bad for this one was the fact he was an Iraq war veteran which means he'd no doubt come back with PTSD. That said, the public or at least those in his area knowing about him might be good but only more on the side of getting the man mental health assistance and the like. I never did keep up with him though so I don't even know how he ended up.

As for wider public knowledge about Chris, I'd consider it mostly bad. Now I'm just referring this to weirdos one could have a chuckle at when said weirdo does some McDonalds video where their Hamburglar cosplay makes them look like a failed Voldo cosplay and not weirdos like Nick Bate who would make songs about anuses and sexually assaulting kids. If the public had wider knowledge on a person like Chris, I do feel that'll attract trolls, weens (basically wannabe trolls the wiki summed up as at best mildly annoying Chris though I wouldn't be surprised if the definition could change), and A-Logs (basically people that think Chris is a full-on menace that deserves hate, and this is all before the whole incest saga). While people could no doubt be sympathetic to Chris, at least at a varied degree if one considered Chris' history beyond just trolling and autism (consider things like the love quest and incidents such as the parking lot of a hobby shop and macing a Gamestop employee).

Since I mentioned Nick Bate, I will say that if the person in question was truly horrendous then I'd consider public knowledge good but only in the realms of anything that's actually illegal that everyone agrees the person in question should be behind bars and I mean this in the terms of Nick Bate being a man who more or less raped his half-sister who is younger than him. No one needs to know about Nick's horrible teeth or his disgusting fetish for feces (though I'm sure people should know since I really don't want to be near a man that has worse hygiene than Chris), but knowing about his horrendous behavior as a sort of stalker to one girl and his horrendous behavior to his half-sister should be known. I don't know if Amos Yee would count as a lolcow since I either never read his thread or just a page or two but he's another example since he himself is a sex offender and I can remember him making some rant where he defends pedophilia. And of course, people like the tulpa brony I mentioned may as well have be known to the public if they did have something that does concern other within the realm of physical or mental help.

Damn this is some serious insight into the farms. Bit of a weird thing to ask about though but what’re you thoughts on that one autistic guy that Jim made a video on and I think had a thread on KF. Think his name was Jimothy Ross? Johnathon Ross? His name started with a J. Apparently there’s a couple clips of him freaking out on people and was so loud that he broke his mic.

What was the best thing that KiwiFarms ever did while you were on there? Assuming they ever did anything you’d consider good.

Earliest one I can think of: a care package sent to Chris from forum members after the house fire. Anyone that observed Chris obsessively as a "Christorian" or troll or whatever can say what they want about Chris wasting money or good will and all but it was pretty much a nice thing since the house did get screwed over by a fire. Plus if this pissed off anyone, imagine getting pissed off at randos over a care package that wasn't even malicious. The only other good thing I can recall that wouldn't be considered dickish behavior* was a thread where a user gave out humble bundle keys if you asked. It was pretty nice. Everything else though that wasn't focused on lolcows or "lolcows" however I can't consider the best thing since having discussions on games or news is something you could also do on Reddit or 4Chan. The only other best thing the Farms did in my eyes was meeting some people that I later have them on my Steam friends list and on Discord. Other than that, those are the only good or best things from the Farms.

Everything else wouldn't really have my interest such as about 95-99% of the lolcow threads. Then again the only thread that I can recall being the best one I found was on loveshy's which as mentioned before, are the predecessors of incels. One of our earliest mods who no longer used the site since like the mid 2010's did well in mocking them and I have no regrets in making fun of their BS. There's also Jace Connors AKA Parkourdude91 and dick as it is to laugh at the guy, it was funny to see someone send him an imgur link that turned out to be gay human on furry porn and the man throwing his mic at a monitor while his racist stoner friend speaks on how skeletons have to be real separate race and kept imprisoned in Area 51. It all turned out to be a ruse but it was all pretty funny and I hope the guys behind Deagle Nation are doing well in life), and in honorable mention there was "SJW art extremes" which did have some art one could see as bad. Think of one piece of fanart of DDLC characters whose main problem isn't the skin color but rather the faces drawn on them. Of course that thread focused on Tumblr so imagine someone drawing a character with a shirt saying "Down with cis" on a Undertale character. I can get that knowing how trans people face shit one would say "down with cis" but I always thought that sort shirt meme on a character just sounded obnoxious. The reason I give that thread an honorable mention though was my main focus in that thread being on armored women and what work you had them in.

Now I will say that yeah, women in fiction do get sexualized armor and it'd be nice for them to have more practical armor but I also feel that depends on what the work is. Plus I feel like if the armor is nothing more but a simple cuirass with two domes, I feel that's not worth a jab compared to having a lady wear nothing but a bikini made of chainmail. That said I did like posting my own dunks on some edits of armored women I thought were dumb such as a elf samurai whose source material was a literal porn game where you had monster girls prowling around or one person making an edit on an anime character in giving her a helmet that honestly looked more impractical since it would fuck with ones vision. If that thread did some good for me, it was making me appreciate IRL armor more and being more critical (and by this I mean shitting on) to "practical or well covered" fantasy armor you'd see on a character in Dragon Age or Warcraft (I'm still disappointed no one in the fantasy genre bothers to do an actual brigandine without fucking it up save for Capcom with Dragon's Dogma) while thinking some people should just chill with boob plate and add it to men as well (Going on Dragon's Dogma again, I do like how it was one that could let males be just as barely covered as women in terms of armor. We need that sort of enlightened centrism in a fantasy work)

*Even in the earliest days when the lolcow forum popped up, it'd be dick behavior since that pretty much meant back then when lolcow means "haha look at this idiot" and even if the person did turn out to be a legit douche that simply begged on the internet rather than work a job or was a complete asshole, it's still dick behavior since you are laughing at them. Whether or not one deserves it, that may as well be for another thread.

To Derptastic Man: I don't even know. I never kept up with Metokur so I don't know who J Ross is.

SicklyVivian

I would say, I’ve also been on KiwiFarms somewhere between 2014~2018. Not a user since I don’t really create accounts on sites unless I’m more devoted to partake, just a passby viewer. I do remember going there monthly/bimonthly for Andrew Dobson threads since that person was a total tool, for what I remember.

Later in the following year or 2, I started to visit less and less but I don’t know why at the time. Lately, I've started to see many sub articles about… pretty much everyone I know on YouTube. It’s not like someone who's been outed by something vile from the past or behind scenes, they are just inoffensive with just 1-2 offsets to them. And yet, it qualifies a thread alongside actual notorious people on the site.

But what made me just leave that site and never come back was a thread about Etika during his mental crisis. When news started showing that he did commit suicide, bunch of the users on KiwiFarms started laughing off by this and mock his passing. Then I discover that there’s a “counter” were users start marking the people who did commit sucide, which are several individuals back then. That's when I realize that these user’s are no better than the lolcows, hell even horrorcows if they think making a mockery of someone’s life as some sort of score.

I guess I sort of have the similar experience as you, SicklyVivian. But far, far less as an outsider. Now when someone mentions KiwiFarms, I’ll always remember the quote from ED about them: “KiwiFarm: They love lolcows so much, they become one.” Since I don’t need to ask you about your breaking point into leaving KiwiFarms since You’ve might posted from this thread, I’ll guess my question is this.

Do you still have interest in lolcows/notorious people, and if you sort of do, is it by YouTube documentary channels like Geno Samuel?

Funny you mention Dobson and everyone you know on Youtube. No doubt a difference between the two since Dobson did have a sort of history in being an inflamatory individual when you look at his material compared to some guy with a Youtube like Vaush or Destiny or Metokur or Etika. Not a fan or interested in any of those guys but yeah, mocking the passing of a person is legit shit. I could understand if the one that died turned out to be a scum bag like the dead and former user Fuck You. That said, the fact there's a counter is pretty disgusting, especially since it'd all very likely be used for a malicious or at least a very shitty purpose. And funny you mentioned the users being no better than lolcows because in all honesty, a number of users would no doubt be lolcows in their own right or at the very least complete spergs when it comes to something.

The ED article on the Farms as well as some chanboards such as /COW/ and its predecessor 789Chan noted the user base to be just as much as lolcows in their own right. And honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if a number of users joined in simply to troll-shield themselves. Hell, you wouldn't even need to be shitting on someones suicide to be a lolcow (consider the user I previously mentioned who went by the name of HomerBeoulve. He didn't mock anyones death or misfortune as far as I know but he sperged out against feminism and thought Anita Sarkeesian was a lolcow and not some grifter or wannabe intellectual or whatever) when you could just be someone with their own skeletons like having a secret collection of disgusting MLP fetish porn while mocking furries with badly drawn sexual OC's or mocking someone for being some offended feminist SJW when the user makes themselves a sperg by making videos like eating a sandwich and asking if any feminist are offended.

Also to note on Null since he is the first of the userbase: much as one can take ED with a grain of salt, Null does have his own ED page and anyone familiar with his antics over the years and all could imagine him as a sort of lolcow. Hell, one user I spoke with that got burned out by the site and it's culture sees Null as a lolcow.

As for still having any interest in lolcows or notorious people, I'll admit that I still do but not much in laughing at them so much as just watching someone's documentary video. Ironically I've yet to see any Geno Samuel video beyond maybe one that covered Liquid but I enjoyed the first CWC documentary that was made around 2014/2015. Besides that is Toad McKinley who covered three people that the Farms did have a thread and beyond one simply being disgusting for stories that are still gross even if they were tall tales, the other two are just horrifying (one's a fat lady who partakes in child abuse considering how she uses something like a waving wood spoon to get her kid in line, the other a sort of gay man whose into muscular body modification that ended up being a controlling shithead that got one of his "pups" killed in a botched silicone injection. That man's thread was one I didn't regret in posting since it was interesting to see how Toad McKinley covered it). Lastly, there is Cecil McFly who did cover two lolcows: Pixyteri, a fat Texan woman who got infamous for ill-fitting cosplays but would eventually have some family drama with her mom (and honestly, anyone still laughing at her in current year is on the same level as laughing at current year Chris. Anything of them as a lolcow has dried up and burned long ago. Only laughs one can even say would be had is old stuff and that all has its limits, not to mention it's pretty is dick when you consider the state these people are in now) and there's Nick Bate who honestly, is in no way a funny man. One could probably crack a joke in his appearance making him look like an unlikeable fat Otacon from Metal Gear but even that won't ellicit a laugh since Nick is just all around a disgusting man. Beyond that, there's just rewatching old Chris-Chan videos and Parkourdude91 videos but that's more for just background noise save for one video of the latter where someone linked him furry porn. The reaction still makes me laugh. And knowing that ED is somehow still around, I did use it recently just read some articles I did enjoy looking at years back just for pure entertainment such as the Parkourdude91 and the page on anyone that had some relation to Chris such as one of the trolls* that tried to fuck with Chris.

*Fun fact for anyone that doesn't know: Some of the people that trolled and tried to troll Chris have their own ED page and since ED is one of the more well known sites about lolcows, one can argue at least some of the trolls are lolcows as well.

Bit of a more interesting question to ask, but if you could go back and do it all over again would you prevent yourself from signing up for KiwiFarms? Or would you have done it the same but this time stick around and voice your concerns?

I'd still go on the Farms but I'd leave sooner. Either around 2015 when I lost interest in lolcows or after I get the people on my friends list, maybe a few extra more. If I knew how, I'd also do some offline preservation of the Parkourdude91 threads since those were pretty much the best thing the site had to offer, that and the free HumbleBundle keys. That said if I voiced my concerns, I'd likely get drowned out since you'd still have all the other things that go on to drive away old users, not to mention any possibility in Null just responding to it negatively. Have some concern about users posting info that could actual hurt the site? Null will just bitch about it and keep it in there.

And if you watched Cecil McFly's video on Nick Bate, one could get a good example of that from Null writing a letter to send to the titular person only for someone begging him not to. Null would then deface the letter in MSPaint with "GET RAPED JULAAAAY" and then send the letter to Nick Bate. That should at least give one another idea of Null.

I think it’s safe to say that Null is a massive dick.

Oh indeed. Even in the early days, Null was a dick. I didn't see it that much but I managed to learn that from friend that also used the site. Even though one thread came from a banned member that was a jackass in his own right, that thread was funny in how the guy took the Sonichu Animated series theme song and put Null's name in it. Looking back at it now, I feel some would think the OP post in that thread would actually deserve credit.

what do you think about null having a chimpout over vtuber thread

Honestly, I can't say much since I never really did see all of Null's post over the years. Hell, most of the time I saw his post, it was about some rule he was putting in or some update on the site. It's why post like his 2017 post about white genocide was something that caught me off guard when an ex-member showed it to me though I wasn't a complete shock since I already knew Null was an abrasive person who would regurgitate some stupid \pol\ shit. That and he did mention voting for Trump because it could mean sticking it to political dynasties or whatever though he also pretty much got soured by Trump and called the guy a r*tard President.

Circa 2015, I remember one of my former friends asked me if I knew about KF and something along the lines of Anita Sarkeesian. AFAICR the level of KF from an outsider perspective were mostly lolcows, but doxing was something else. From what I've read from the thread I can relate to the sentiment like watching Metokur content or the other lolcows that were part in my conversations. I think what tore me in shreds was Near's suicide and KF's involvement. One of the most gifted game developers who worked on an extremely difficult emulation, gone because KF decided that their existence was worthless.

With what's happening with KF and Null, do you believe that everyone who was involved heavily in KF activities will receive justice?

Near's not dead though, the only reliable evidence that ever came out contradicts claims of their death. And even if we assume that the US embassy was wrong, KF's "involvement" was Null refusing to be bribed/guilt-tripped to take down a thread that was, at that time, totally inactive.

There are actual suicides that people have tried to tie to the Farms, though from what I've seen of the claims, they're not especially sturdy either.

Well this is one final question I have, do you ever think The Farms will ever truly be down for good? By that I mean do you think that Kiwifarms will truly be taken out/down including if not limited to site data being purged, staff becoming disillusioned and Null going full Lolcow and flipping on his site and community?

Rumour has it the site was actually aware of some of the more… special… users of this site. Was there anyone outside of the Halifax shooter the farms actually took notice of?

To Storm Claymore:
Far as receiving justice goes, I think that'll be more on anything illegal like actively swatting a person and sending threats to a person. More of that than just going in a thread and typing "REEEEEE FREAKING TRANZEEEEES GETTING KIDS REEEEEEEEEE." Granted, a link would have to be made to establish the person as being guilty than just having an account on there though I will note I haven't really paid much attention to Near beyond seeing the drama that unfolded and where it led to. As what Spaghetto mentioned in the US embassy, the lack of info on Near's death from the said embassy would cast some doubt though I'd play Devil's Advocate and say the suicide could still happen since one could off themselves in a very isolated and rural place where it could take a good chunk of time for someone to find the body after decomposition. That said, my biggest problem with the Farms in regards to Near's suicide, whether the Farms is directly related or indirectly related (I say indirectly since even if the Farms wasn't the big reason to commit suicide, one could say the existence of the thread and any activity within it preceding the suicide could have a sort of link or some relation to the suicide on top of any other factors.) would be more on how users responded that would be tasteless even to one that's an ass in laughing at people like CWC pre-incest saga.

To Derptastic Derp Man: I honestly don't know. If the Farms were to be down, I'd imagine the big reason for it wouldn't just be Null going full cow or data being purged and disillusioned staff. I don't even think you'd need Keffals to keep emailing any DDOS protection site. All that's needed is Null not being able to keep up with all the constant problems that go on or even the userbase getting tired of it. That said, the Kiwi Farms I knew and used had been dead for a good long time. At least since 2015 or 2016 when it took a different direction and you started to have more of the \pol\ types coming in and Null going further in letting whatever political beliefs he have set in.

To Carrie Enright: Honestly, I can't even say. Maybe on the chat or in DM's between users but I never noticed anyone being like the Halifax shooter. Worst I can remember was the site's first user that got his own lolcow thread because he was pretty much an anti-SJW. Would of noticed him being a bit "special" when asking him about feminism and how he tried to make a thread on Anita Sarkeesian. Him being a lolcow in a sense came full blast once GamerGate happened. Never forgetting the dumb feminist rant vids and the tweets he made that made him out a lolcow. But for anyone being a future mass shooter, I can't say since I haven't even used the chat function since 2014 and I only sticked with a few users who also ended up leaving the site save for one that just goes on there in his offtime IIRC.

And since suicides tied to the Farms go, I will say I never did any deep dives into them and honestly, with all the "he said, she said" goes in, I'd rather not bother since at this point since outside of being disillusioned with the site, I'd imagine that even if one didn't kill themselves because of the threads they had, I'd imagine that if the Farms did have some link but wasn't a direct cause, I could just see the thread from the site as one factor, how big of a factor, I can't really say. Then again, I'm not even bothering to read the threads since outside of being disillusioned with the site and having better things to do with my time, the site itself is either dead or hard to reach since I could imagine Null making steps to try and keep his site afloat after all the DDOS that goes on since like the mid 2015. And just to note, I say the 2015's at the very least since even before you had the site making infamy on Near's death or the Keffals thread, the site has been on a shitlist even back then since before you had threads on rando nobodies from Twitter, there was lolcow threads dedicated to groups or sites like Wizardchan.