Forums / Discussion / Serious Debate

So i want to discuss having sympathy for animals

Now i going to start this off by saying that i don't hold sympathy for animals, there are some exceptions. Now before you start assuming that i'm some heartless dick who hates animals hear me out.

I don't revel in killing animals, i don't approve of senselessly torturing them and killing them.And some stuff like what happens to sharks and dogs does annoy me. But when it happens it really doesn't bother me that much.

Whenever I see stories of animals being abused or killed all that comes to mind is, that sucks.

But to other people they absolutely hate it, to them its the equivalent of killing a person. I just don't understand it.

For me when a dog, or a dolphin or beached whale dies i'm disappointed, but when a person dies i'm sad. I guess its because i don't view animals as people. How could I?

Very few animals have advanced intelligence. IE, Felines, Canines, cephalopods, whales, dolphins, porpoises, elephants etc. But even then they're nowhere near our level in terms of overall brain functions. And I can't understand why people become so upset when you point this out.

If it's hunting, then i'm OK with it, but if it's killing Endangered Species, then i'm Disappointed on the person who did it

Here come the PETA members

but that's the thing though, even that doesn't bother me, i mean yeah it gets on my nerve because as a future microbiologist, (still working on my degree) i disapprove of the pointless waste of life. But beyond that it just doesn't get to me

We're all living things, let's not forget that.

My opinion on animal sympathy comes almost entirely from what I learned in Biology class and our wonderful teacher. It is natural we die, along with animals. We as humans have come to the point where we can mass farm domesticated animals. As long as we exsist, cows, pigs, chickens, among others, will continue to exsist with us. Conditions are questionable, but they were created for us to consume. Killing animals is perfectly fine. The way they are killed, that is very controversial.

The primary purpose for our exsistence is to reproduce. It is required for our species to continue. So while necessary for the species, it is not necessary for the individual.

The problem I have is endangered species. They are an important part of earth's history, and should be perserved by all means possible. I honestly believe focusing on endangered species is currently more of an issue. NOT to say that animal rights do not matter.

I hope this makes sense.

@GaryTheStoßtruppen yeah i guess, but when you learn about the fact that earth has gone through multiple mass extinction events including one that we humans lived through endangered species just start to seem less and less important

I'm more interested in the world and its species as a whole, rather than indivudual organisms. That's just me.

Well, it makes sense why you feel that way and there's nothing anyone can do tl make you feel differently, but as long as you're for the cause, it doesn't matter if you feel the feels in my opinion. Honestly, for me, it's the other way around. When I hear stories about animals being tortured and killed like in the recent "Shell Shock" story, I feel personally hurt and my feelings are very strong about it. However, whenever ai hear about starving kids in Africa or murders or tragedies involving people, I don't really feel "sad", I'm just kind of like "that sucks", and I want something to be done about it, but my feelings aren't totally there. Not sure why things are this way, it's just kind of how we are.

On animal-rights, yeah, I think the life of a person definitely has more value than an animals in most instances because we are smarter and can live more fulfilled lives than say, a chicken or something. However, the instances in which another animal's life is worth more than a person's in my opinion is when the animal is heavily endangered (since that animal is dying out while there are more than enough people on Earth), or when the animal is arguably around the same intelligence-level as a human, like for example, dolphins, in which case I believe the life of a person and a dolphin are around the same.

^

Yeah, the human situation is really complicated. We live in a world where some people can do whatever they please, and others starve at birth. Where animals are the best pets a person can have, and others are thrown to death by ignorant teenagers. The best thing we can do is to raise awareness, that's the first step.

It's in my list of goals in life to do something about these problems. I may be young right now, but reading books about people rebuilding unheard of communites inspires me to do something, whether with animals, people, or the world. I just hope I'll find that goal.

There was a controversy over here not too long ago. Nearly 200 chains of Subway now serve halal only. Not only is it unfair for those who don't share the same belief and it limits their choice it also is controversial because the way halal is prepared could be considered pretty inhumane or cruel. The animal to be healthy, have its throat slit while conscious and the blood drained.

My opinion on animals themselves are that is only kill them (as painlessly as possible) with reason like for food or self defence. But otherwise I am a bit of an animal lover, I especially love animals in the canid family (which includes mans best friend). One of the things about nature that I like is that even predator and prey can help to keep the other surviving.

I also really think we do need to protect the species we have left and should ensure extinction happens to no species.

I don't exactly feel like animals are exactly equal to humans, but I seem to think they are more equal than you think.
Especially cats, but I just really like cats. Cats are a lot like me.

I remember being in jeddah airport (saudi arabia) and seeing a stray cat. It was not afraid of me or anyone who came up and touched it and in fact, it was very welcoming.

Because it wanted food or water.

I found this out so i gave the cat a disposable plastic bowl filled with cold water and as soon as i poured the water from the bottle it went straight for the bowl and immediately started lapping it up.

(A few days later)

I nearly died from dehydration under the hot sun of saudi arabia which i am not even joking.

Karma?

Sometimes acts of kindness do not pay off. What you did was admirable, but fate decrees you suffer for it. Don't let that discourage you and make you greedy, because your sacrifice made the world just a little better for others.

I respect life and don't believe we are actually more important than other animals. In fact, we aren't. Kinship is what we feel towards one-another which leads to bias toward other creatures, but we we are just part of the food chain like everything else. Sure we've kind of fucked that up, but that's what happens with unnatural actions.

I think most people would agree that torturing animals or killing them out of amusement/sport is pretty fucked up and reprehensible.

However, some people seem to be pretty selective when it comes to what animals deserve sympathy.

Recently I've found that I'm quite the animal lover, more than I realized before. I used to think I only really cared for the more cute and cuddly animals but I find I hold the same sort of affection for reptiles and other assorted animals. Hell, I got to hold a tarantula for the first time a few months ago and my freaking heart melted for it.

That aside, I think the main logic behind animal sympathy is that for the most part animals are defenseless against humans and so people take it upon themselves to defend the defenseless so to speak. Animals can't speak for themselves, they can't craft superior weapons, if humans decide they want to hunt then the animal is basically fucked as we've seen from the "shell shocked" video. I feel deep sympathy for animals put in tragic situations, but I don't think I feel it any more or less than I do with humans. I'm a bit of a bleeding heart so things like this always tend to strike me with sadness

To cancel out the kindly, positive vibe from Crimson Locks and keep the balance of this thread, here I am. Now I personally am a cold, heartless bastard. And if you thought that's something that a person wouldn't admit so freely, than you clearly don't know me very well.

But to be serious for one moment, I have always been on the extremely logical side of these arguments, and typically I like to look at the really big picture. You see, in the multi-billion year history of life on earth, ten to the several powers of animals have suffered and died. In one way of seeing it, that is simply their fate. It is the fate of human beings as well- this, I believe, is what truly connects us to all other species. And no matter how hard we try, nothing we try (at least currently) can do jack shit to change that.

But this is where the difference comes in. A dog, fish, ant, or anything else will always breathe, eat, shit, feel pain and die. But what else? Nothing. There is no grand purpose for any of these creatures. Their one and only goal is simply to be, whether refering to themselves of carrying on their genetic code through their offspring.

But humans? We have- and will continue to- discover and catalog the very laws that govern all of existence. To paraphrase Carl Sagan, we are the universe contemplating itself. We can travel the cosmos, perhaps to other universes. Given enough time, we could become gods and create an eternal paradise.

So do I torture animals for fun? No. Do I think other people should? No. But I think a lot of people must reconsider what is truly important in this world. Because instead of obsessing over whether or not some chickens are living in optimal conditions, you could be contributing to something amazing.

I totally agree with this. I see people who say "I love animals!", and they're always fighting to save the whales or stop dogs from being mistreated in the kennel and all that, but then whenever they see a bug of any sort it's "Ewwwww, gross!" and then they either kill it themselves or ask someone else to. If they see a lizard or a snake it's the same reaction except without the killing part (usually). These people and their hypocrisy disgust me. In my opinion, if they admitted they only liked the cute animals I would be mostly fine with it, but my problem is when they try to pretend they like "all animals".

@0.99999…

I really agree with this logic. I value the lives of animals based on their ability to feel and reason. As you said, people are one of the species on this planet whose lives hold the most value. It's no reason to condone animal violence, but it's a good judging system for who lives and who dies. For example, I use this argument to accept the fact that I eat meat. I think it's ridiculous for some of the vegans or vegetarians out there to claim that the life of a chicken or a cow is worth the same as a person's. No it's not. On this scale, there are a few variables. For example, the life of a single chicken is worth more than that of one ant and the life of one human is worth more than a chicken, but there is also the rarity of a species to consider. For example, a highly endangered species could have more value than a person because of its rarity. Also, creatures such as dolphins and whales are some of the creatures on Earth which are arguably as smart as humans if not more. Some even argue that the only reason dolphins haven't developed technology yet is because their anatomy doesn't allow them to. (Ex: flippers can't really make stuff)

My opinion can be boiled down to: What's good for humans is always more important than what is good for animals. Sure wanton killing of animals is an unnecessary waste and is probably bad, but I don't care one way or the other.
We 'own' the world so to speak and have the right to use it however we want because we happen to be the most advanced species of animal. If some other species wants resources they should learn how to use weapons and take it for themselves.

Removing shitty conditions for farm animals is also a lot easier. I believe we should squash the smaller problems before moving onto the big things, otherwise the small problems could grow big.

We don't own the world as that is also just another human conception. However, we are clearly the dominant species and have have the ability to fuck up or fix our planet. Sadly, our capabilities far exceed our ability to control primitive instincts and fully reason out the consequences of our actions.