Forums / Discussion / Serious Debate

Tomorrow, (that is, Thursday, Sept. 18) Scottish citizens will vote on whether or not Scotland should separate from the UK and become an independent state. If the majority vote 'yes', then Scotland will hold it's first parliamentary elections in May of 2016.

So what are your thoughts on this? And would Scotland seceding from the UK be anything like a Canadian territory/US state seceding from their respective unions?

Is it happening?

I don't really see the point in seceding at this point; It seems that if they were planning on seceding, they should have done it years ago. The system as it exists now seems to be working pretty well, and the decision to break off could create more problems than it solves.

I'm not sure how many Scots would agree with you on that.
(inb4 no true Scotsman joke)

As a Scotsman myself, I'm kinda on the fence about this one.

Scotland becoming independent would be nice, as we could worry about our own affairs rather than those of the UK as a whole. On the other hand, breaking away from the UK would cripple a few areas, especially international affairs, since Scotland currently houses the majority of weapons that Britain has, and since they will be moved to England with no where to go, our defense as a whole will weaken, which could cause serious backlash and would kinda screw over NATO.

I'd probably vote YES though, since it would be an interesting situation.

Also, inb4 "FREEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOOOOOM!" and other Braveheart quotes.

On your second question, it's similar, but not the same. Scotland was originally a kingdom of its own, unlike US states or Canadian provinces which were only officially formed when the union formed, and that gives Scotland a bigger sense of identity. However, states and provinces of the US and Canada do still have their own identities and always have, despite never being their own actual countries.

As for my opinion, I don't live there and I don't know much politically and historically about the area, so I can't really form an educated opinion on it. I'll just sit and watch what happens.

Personally I prefer Robert the Bruce to William Wallace. But that's just me.

I'm not saying that secession doesn't have some merit, I'm just saying that, given how long Scotland has been a part of the UK, it seems to me that it would be more trouble than it's worth considering how much work it would take to work the whole thing out. At this point in history, national borders don't mean nearly as much as they used to, globalization and all that, so unless being part of the union is just a complete shit situation all around, i personally would vote no on the secession, just for the sake of convenience.

Give it 100 years and the EU might be one country with the current nations functioning as territories/states and this won't even matter.

Texas was its own nation for some time.

Englishmen with Scottish ancestors here. I feel that the whole idea of seceding is too romanticized. It also seems something short term as well. The things like oil etc are going to run out. Also the rest of the UK should keep our Army, Monarch and currency. I feel that if Scotland truly wants independence, they have to be fully independent. For people so passionate about abandoning the UK they should have nothing to do with it.

I think we should then build another Hadrian's Wall and block them out.

hey if they wanna go for it, I say why not.

I think it's a big mistake. The legal and diplomatic clusterfuck alone wouldn't end for decades. Their economy wouldn't be very robust (relying on North Sea oil's a huge mistake), and their military would be very poor as well.

It really shows just how far the British Empire has fallen. From ruling a third of the Earth, to not even being able to keep it's own island. Makes you wonder what'll happen to the US.

>Wonder

It's like you don't even know the South wlil rise again.

It means the US is gonna go capture the third of the world they once owned just to rub it in their faces. (And then once they capture England itself, they shall destroy Buckingham Palace and replace it with a giant shopping mall of only McDonalds and Walmarts.)

I'd say I take an observer's stance on this one. If the referendum results with Scotland staying in, by the third day we can assume that nothing ever happened. If Scotland does secede, though, that brings a lot of questions. I mean, what currency will they use? Won't leaving UK automatically move them outside EU, or will they just be a new member state? If no, doesn't that mean that prices of Scotch products, like, say, Whisky, would skyrocket and at the same time a wave of counterfeits would spawn since production is no longer regulated by EU?
There's so many questions that I'd gladly see the answer to at some point…
And, hell, Eastern Ukraine is still burning.

Damn, Europe. Never a dull moment…

>Not being able to keep it's own island
Look please learn some geography and actual history. Scotland wasn't owned by the rest of the UK it was by choice. England had it's own successful empire before the union.

Two hours left. Can't find any approximate results so far, though.

So, is it happening?

Lol, the province of Friesland in my country already send a delegation to Scotland to see if they could pull it off as well.

For those unfamiliar with Friesland: They speak a dialect that differs a lot from Dutch, to the point that many living there rather describe it as a seperate language. It has given them quite the ego as well, and they like to look at themselves as a seperate nation from the rest of the country.

Basically just a big fucking pedestral they need to be kicked down from.

Well, apparently Frisian is a separate language closer related to English than to Dutch, but as I also refer to myself as Silesian from time to time, I guess I should shut up.

Anyway, votin's done, Wikipedia says that the results are supposed to be announced at around 5:30-6:30 UTC, which is eight to nine hours from now.
We'll see…

Next up: Hawaii votes to leave US?

I wouldn't give two shits to be honest. Hawaii totally could support itself on tourism alone. The US might lose a big tourist attraction and some free sugar, but it wouldn't suffer too much. I just don't think we should have taken it in the first place, but what's done is done. Hawaii's a state now. I don't think they'd really want to leave though. A more realistic contender would be Texas. Lots of them still want to leave. Not too many by now, but still a decent vocal base for Texan secession.

Oh yeah, they love the secession talk down there. Always going on about how they want to break off from the union. Right up until some disaster like a hurricane or earthquake hits. Then they incessantly whine about how the federal government isn't doing enough about their plight.

By the way guys, when I was talking about Texas being a more realistic choice for secession, I meant more likely than Hawaii. It's still insanely unlikely to happen and vocal secessionists are a minority, but it's the least ridiculous state if you're going to talk about US states that might secede.

@Cipher

Is that sarcasm or what? I just want your post to be clear.

No i was being serious. I hear a lot of anti government sentiment coming from the secessionists in Texas, but whenever Texas is in need of the government's help for whatever reason, they are always the first to start begging for D.C. to come save them, and complaining when it doesn't come fast enough.

Sure, it's not like Quebec has a separate language and culture from the rest of Canada. It's not like it was a colony of another nation that got annexed and conglomerated into confederation rather than remain a British territory. It's not like they never shut up about these things even though if they left Canada we'd both be severely messed up by the experience.

Speaking of severely messed up; that's what's going to happen to Scotland and Britain if they divorce.

It would appear that the United Kingdom will stay united for some time to come. The vote is in, and secession is out.

oh well, perhaps a united scotland and england is for the best.

44.7% said Yes, 55.3% said No.
Welp, seems like we're staying in the UK for now.
Whether or not this is a blessing in disguise is to be seen, since the aftermath could be problematic.

Although this could bring about mixed outcomes/consequences, I somewhat relieved, and hope this brings in opportunity to seek a more effective solution to the troubles that Scotland is facing.

I know I cant say what is best for Scotland, being on the other end of the planet. But I continue to feel that the secession was more about nationalism and pride rather than practicality.

I don't think breaking away from an old union is the correct answer for what Scotland is going through, I think the UK nations needs to look into improving the benefits of the British parliament so that it works for all states rather than breaking off from it.

What those solutions are, I don't know. But surely cooperation is better than isolation,

I'm getting

wait, what? Dammit CNN

imo it wouldn't be good for either party (scottland and the rest of the UK), but since there is a slight majority voting no, i don't think there's much to worry about.

on a side note, would the UK change their flag if scottland would become independent, and what would it look like :P

Good fucking job, CNN.

AND WE STILL DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO IS THIS "4CHAN" PERSON.

All we have on him is this image…