Forums / Discussion / Serious Debate

Whenever people oppose memes becoming "mainstream," all I can think about is kids refusing to share their toys. I still don't understand why people say that normies kill memes: making something more prevalent doesn't kill it.

A while back, I made a post on Reddit covering this same issue

One person replied to that post attempting to justify the anti-normie attitude, but I find his justification to be weak, simply because I find it a bit selfish that you're willing to ostracise all normies just because they supposedly overuse memes.

When I heard about the Meme Compass, I took the test, and was labelled a normie just for disagreeing with the hive mind of the meme community. (Full thoughts on the test here)

In particular, I don't have a problem with corporations, schools and public officials using memes to appeal to teenagers, because they should be commended for attempting to modernise instead of saying something among the lines of "Back in my day, we didn't have memes! Get off my lawn!" Also, if old memes are dead, then using that logic, retro games and movies are no longer relevant today.

As someone who doesn't have much in common with my IRL "friends," I would gladly welcome more "normie" usage of memes. I've been told that the reason I have trouble making friends IRL is because we're too different. But once my IRL friends started singing All Star, I found something that we shared, and I got an opportunity to sing All Star without people thinking I'm too weird.

Here's an example of what normies can achieve:

Yes, it uses the impact font. Yes, it's a PPAP parody. But these qualities don't neccesarily make it a bad meme just because some people don't like it.

What really spurred me to make this post is an old Reddit post that I randomly stumbled across

The people commenting on the post are literally calling for normies to die. I also hate how the post and its comments are another iteration of the attitudes "Everything I don't like is cancer!" and "Stop liking things I don't like!"

How would you define a normie meme anyway? Are you just talking about old memes, or are you talking about memes that you don't like? Why does every meme have to be "dank?" (still find that term to be arbitrary and subjective)

One last thing: A "normie" is just someone who isn't experienced with memes. Every "dank" memer has to start somewhere. Ergo, every dank memer was a normie at some point in their lives.

Hey buddy, edited your post real quick to fix some hyperlinking and images.

Yes, but to call it too far is subjective.

There is a term for this: Meme Elitism. These nerds can't handle seeing their Kool Kids Klub discovered by outsiders.

It's an ancient scenario of us vs. them. Like Brits and the French, or Germans and the French, or the States and the French, or the French and the French.

Wishing upon their death is plain retarded of course, but this is the internet and kiddies haven't necessarily developed a proper vocabulary yet.

The memes belong to the people, let them loose. If you unironically use "normie", you have probably developed a fine taste for the smell of your own farts.

So say your a social outcast. Deadly accurate, I know. You have been abandoned by all the "kool kidz" and now have only the other social outcasts to befriend. Due to the low standards of a social outcast you all accept each other easily. You become close friends with the other social outcasts and become the "kool kidz" yourself.
You and your new friends make a joke that only you and your group understand. This joke is very funny and all your friends use it in creative ways. Then, one of the other "kool kidz" who previously rejected you sees all the fun this new group is having and try's to join in. Here you have 2 options:
1 let the guy in
2 revenge

The first option leads to the joke becoming widespread throughout the school or whatever. It has been used in uncreative ways and been used so many times it's not it's almost expected at every turn. Suddenly, the joke is no longer funny. What had previously been special between your friends was now just a generic joke.

Then, you have option 2. Why care about someone who didn't care about you when you did the same? In this case, the entire hierarchy is flipped and suddenly your that "kool kid" who is 2gud4u and he's the social outcast. And then, the whole cycle repeats.

The people in the meme community have chosen to take option 2. Cruel? Yes. Selfish? Sure. But logical? Yep.

Your scenario falls apart on two counts:

1. I don't consider memes like We are Number One to be jokes, that meme is just people remixing a song.

2. I have trouble making friends with both the kool kidz AND the other outcasts, mainly because the outcasts constantly perpetuate the "Everything I don't like is cringy/cancer!" attitude, and I'm a fan of many of the things that they hate.

We are Number One as a meme goes well beyond complex remixes of the song, such as the "word replaced with X" joke. Those remixes were more of less the spearhead into success.

Perhaps the outcasts you can't seem to get with aren't your type of outcasts? There's gotta be some sort of group out there who'll take your interests.

I don't really have a problem with "normies" liking memes. It's just that once I see them start catching on to one, I know within a month that meme will be tired and dead.

The only problem I have is when companies try to shoehorn them in their advertising campaigns. Like Wendy's with that cringe-inducing "Memer" commercial, or those anti-smoking ads that use memes dating back to 2010. The ironic thing about that, however, is later on Wendy's eventually became a meme itself.

crazyben1234 said:

…literally calling for normies to die.

That's just part of the REEEEE normies! meme, though, isn't it? There's not actually a heartfelt desire to kill someone over a meme. We're not that far gone as a society… yet.

I think it has to do with the classic meme life cycle. It starts as an in-joke within a certain group, then expands beyond that group into the wider internet. The original group will likely abandon it at that stage (unless it's of a high quality and is easily adaptable/alterable [i.e. Pepe]). Then the meme spreads further into "normie" circles of the internet (Facebook, Instagram, etc.). Most of the remaining meaning the meme originally had is lost as non-internet savvy users begin using it as the base for their jokes and the rest of the internet, in turn, turns against the meme and its users.

It's like the Family Guy Effect, only now it's done with 40-year-old Facebook moms using Paint.

I still disagree with the notion that normies kill memes. You have to remember that certain old memes (specifically Impact font ones) still have a fair amount of untapped potential. In the case of companies using memes in advertising campaigns, it sounds like you're just parroting the "Everything I hate is cringy" attitude, which I find to be selfish. These ads might not appeal to you, but they might appeal to others who would have ignored the ad otherwise.

So what if these memes date back to 2010? That just means they're retro.

Nah.

Ironic that twitter and reddit memers would criticize those closer to the mainstream for using "their" memes when the whole "normies" schtick, and most of the memes they use, were themselves taken from [s4s] and the uber-losers at /r9k.

Replace tumblr with iFunny, Facebook, 9Gag, etc.

Yeah. Most of it comes down to 4chan culture IMO. Even as a long time 4channer, I hate how many people on 4chan get off on being this special exclusive club. In fairness, lots of net humour is ripped off from 4chan, but that's just how the internet works. Meme Elitism, as Rando said. No one can claim to own a joke and no one is entitled to special treatment over its usage.

It's hilarious because so many of the nu-chan cucks, such as anyone who joined /pol/ in 2015 or later, will whinge about the leftist complaints over "cultural appropriation" but the second someone uses "their" memes they cry over the same-ass shit, lmao

"Every mentally challenged social outcast can find a place he belongs to."
- Oryaw, 2017

I wouldn't have the disdain I have for normalfags if they actually took their time to understand the things they're spouting.

Some of the normies I know already take their time to understand how to use a meme, and I don't want them to be punished for what others do.

If you understand the meme youre not a normie.

I think a lot of it is past experience knowing that people will be using the meme not because it funny but beacuse it's popular so they tend to over use it or misuse it this is especially true of companies. On the other hand normie memes generally aren't very funny and relay more on "lol random" humor than say a comical overreaction or witty or the meme is just too safe.

The thing is the people who really get mad over this type of stuff feel like the "normies" are purposely going out of their way to kill these memes to ruin their fun. The thing is though, that's not really the case, in fact it's quite the opposite. The normies really like the memes is all and want to share them with everyone.

It's just that after awhile, the memes are used so much they become tired and overused. It's like saying the same knock-knock joke 40 times over, people are going to eventually get tired of it, i.e. the meme "dies." The sad fact is this is basically the eventual fate of every meme. It's just that as long as they stay in a niche community they tend to last longer than when they become mainstream.

As for the advertisements, I respect your opinion but I have not seen a single person that thinks those ads are funny. I'm not against the idea of companies attempting to utilize them, it's just that when they do they usually do when the meme has already become overused and tired. There's been times when breaking away from doing this has worked out quite well, such as with Wendy's twitter and eventual creation of their own meme (and waifu to a niche group of people out there somewhere).

Not how I would define the term, I define it as someone who tends to not dedicate a lot of time to memes, despite being interested in them.

I still think that normies overusing memes is a weak justification for meme elitism. In this day and age, it's easy to just skip past the memes that you don't like, and considering how big the Internet is, you can easily find memes that you do like. As I mentioned earlier, old memes such as those that use the Impact font still have some untapped potential (In particular, the Bad Luck Brian example shown in the Meme Compass test made me crack up), and it would be a shame if we didn't give more people an opportunity to discover that potential.

My IRL friends don't necessarily laugh at these ads, but they pay attention to them, and that's what matters.

You might not find them funny, but I personally do.
Sometimes, "lol random" humor is good enough for me, it wouldn't be fair to hold every meme to the same standards as Pepe (which I would refer to as an "immortal meme.")

You might but it certainly seems as if the larger part of internet groups disagree and it isn't so much as every meme needs to be Pepe as much as they need to have something of substance while a lot of them don't (Damn Daniel for instance) or at least need to be applicable to a lot of different things they tend to feel hollow/or forced and are in my mind the kardashian sisters of the meme world.

But even the "kardashian sisters of the meme world" can be funny on their own. One man's shitpost is another man's gold.

So we have to change our own opinions to fit what you find funny and what you think is a meme? And we are selfish if we don't spread an inside joke like the Black Plague?

He's saying humor differs and that different memes appeal to different people.

Wanna know what's selfish tho: Being convinced your internet haha belongs to your group of social outcasts only and that [group you dislike] can't enjoy it.

If you understand the meme youre not a normie

"Too far" implies any amount of this gatekeeping crap is in any way okay.

What exactly do you mean by "gatekeeping?"

your heart's in the right place OP but i have to wonder why do you care and why does it matter?

the online communities where "normie hate" is an unironic thing are the same communities that will never stop complaining about anything. Save yourself some time and just default to disregarding their opinions.

Deciding who can and can't enjoy/partake in something.

Because this kind of attitude affects people like my friends and I. Also, some of the justifications I have heard for this attitude basically amount to "Everything I don't like is cringy," another attitude that I despise, detest, and loathe.

Here's my take on this topic.

Warning SemiHipser Alert

Well ever since I can remember my "outlook" on "normal" things were either meant to me either defiant in nature or mainly because the people involved in my childhood (witch is an extremely influential part of a person's life) we such assholes that it kinda forced me to instantly not like what was "popular".

From there on, my main focus (i guess like from 13yo on) was to either rebel or seek others with the same interests that i liked and I was (still am) open to new ideas/thoughtpattterns.

But I would always i guess "look" like I was another cookie cutter image teen ATM, I experimented with the obscure and actually like the most different thing considered to the mass media ATM (late 90's early 2000) I was a freshman in HS in 2000. epic shrug

As a full fledged "adult" i'm still a fucking kid at heart I really hated the people that were popular because they were 69% of the time assholes.

So I get along with almost anyone because they way I look at people on an individual perspective.

Just by hanging out with people that "normies" would call a no life loser, instantly I lost (popular points)

Even though in my teens I always went to parties and other "important" shit we consider important at the time.

But looking back I really hated anything considered mainstream (call me a hipster if you wish) but even being a hipster/obscure person THAT became mainstream (like today).

Like being a web/game developer used to mean you got your ass made fun of by the mass majority of people. at least in my community in the US\

another reason I enjoy having friendships with people not from my country because the average person where I'm from are so critical on anything different other that what they believe in.

I know I've been a dick to some people here on this site over the years but, I won't ever try to diferenciate myself from other people.

Tl;Dr

If we decide to genocide the normies… we will become the normies in the end. :hyperthink

Most of the hate is from the change that normies bring. Same thing why many people say they hate trend following "sheeples" and "hipsters" because they are like locust. Here is how it goes down usually:

1) A small hobby or a dank meme.
2) "Normies" caught wind of it. Hobby or meme went on mainstream.
3) Some people capitalises on popularity. Hobby/Meme gets changed ("casualised, dumbed down, to suit normies.
4) Original hobbyists/dank memers call out against it. Gets called nazi/ludites/etc. by people who came to ruin their passion with no effort put in to learn it nor are passionate about it.
5) New hobby/dank meme is in, normies/hipsters left the hobby/dank meme for a trendier hobby/meme.
6) Original members of the circle are left with their hobby/meme of their passion forever changed, tattered, in ruins, filled with soulless contents made to sell to "normies", and their definition of hobby/meme changed by the mainstream media (e.g. Pepe) and got labelled as such.

Worse, the "normies/hipsters" themselves do not know what they done. So dank memers/hobbyists came to regard them like cultural locusts, going field after field, depleting it one after another without thought.

Dank memers/hobbyists start from somewhere. Yes. From a "passionate" beginner to the dankest memers. Passion is what the "normies/hipsters" lack and the lack of it is what angers the the original member.

Some "normies/hipsters" truly deserve scorn because their callous disregard of things people are passionate about and turn it into a "distraction" to be consumed as in "media consumption" and mainstream will bend to them to make money. However, some "normies" are just casually curious and follow the rules/keep low profile to not effect the hobby much out of respect and will not be a loudmouth fuck on reddit or tumblr about how "hard" a hobby is and how it should be made casual like most media writers do.

tl;dr version

I still find that to be a weak justification for "gatekeeping" the wonderful world of memes. As a counterpoint, I'll direct you to one of my earlier posts:

In this day and age, it’s easy to just skip past the memes that you don’t like, and considering how big the Internet is, you can easily find memes that you do like. As I mentioned earlier, old memes such as those that use the Impact font still have some untapped potential (In particular, the Bad Luck Brian example shown in the Meme Compass test made me crack up), and it would be a shame if we didn’t give more people an opportunity to discover that potential.

As I have mentioned in the past, "normies" using memes benefits me, as it gives me something in common with my IRL "friends." As it is right now, my IRL "friends" don't like me because I'm too weird, while people on the Internet don't like me because I'm "cringy."

This is completely wrong though. Elitism can be a good thing. It prevents things from being dumbed down for a wider audience and keeps the cancer away from a community.

Dear OP, you made a post on Reddit. Reddit sucks. You shouldn't promote such retarded sites.

It prevents things from being dumbed down for a wider audience

I see nothing wrong with wanting to appeal to a wider audience.

keeps the cancer away from a community.

Sounds like once again, you're just repeating the same old cry of "Everything I don't like is cancer!"

Dear OP, you made a post on Reddit. Reddit sucks. You shouldn’t promote such retarded sites.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is retarded.