Forums / Discussion / Serious Debate

Just a disclaimer, I'm not too well-versed in politics, maybe only a basic idea of a few ideologies and what they do but other than that, I never delve down deep enough about it. So this question might seem as dumb to some but I wanna know regardless.

As I went around the internet, I notice many people seem to treat political beliefs as good or bad on a moral compass and will treat you as a good or bad person depending on the beliefs. From what I've seen it's left-wing/liberals are good, right-wing/conservatives are bad that's the most popular, though I've seen the inverse as well. And adding on the debate of the morality of centrists and well it's a bit to take into. I know extreme political ideas like fascism and communism are seen as "morally bad" ideologies, but moving away from extremes, what about the rest of the ideas?

Does being a liberal make you a morally good person while being a conservative (Christian) makes you a morally questionable/bad person and vice versa? Is their mortality tied to their political ideology or separate to some extent (a good person with a "bad" political belief and a bad person with a "good" political belief)? Or is inserting a black and white morality idea oversimplify the political ideas? Is their a political belief that's considered morally superior/ideal and if so, why doesn't everyone have that belief? Should you treat everyone well regardless of different political ideologies or is it not possible for everyone?

Sorry if I'm asking alot of questions. It's been bugging me for awhile.

yes, its not a 1:1 at all, but they do yeah.

Near Everyone views their political ideology as morally superior

Politics are a convenient and plastic veneer for those with no interest in moral philosophy. All political ideologies lack deeper morality, though some are more overtly malicious, destructive, or stupidly conceived than others.

Want morality? Disengage from politics and the politically obsessed.

Before I start, I want to mention that "conservative" and "liberal" in terms of politics, in the US they loosely, describe the nature of the government, whereas a few hundred years ago, they loosely described the nature of citizens' rights (with autocratic monarchy being conservative, and a government with representation from the people being liberal.) Most people online base it on the more modern usage, but even then, as highlighted in the much dreaded political compass memes, it isn't so cut and dry. This graph is often seen as painfully reductionistic, even with axes, but it does a better job of showing real-world complexity than simply left/right.

AnotherPlankton wrote:

Does being a liberal make you a morally good person while being a conservative (Christian) makes you a morally questionable/bad person and vice versa?

This is such a broad stroke to paint everyone with that it has basically no meaning.

Religion and conservatism are not tied at the hip. Yes, within much of North America, Europe, and Australia they do correlate. But I know many Christians who actively studied religion, still consider themselves religious, who also support LGBT rights, and cannot stand the current wave of political conservatism. Heck, one of KYM's most active trans users was also a studied Christian, though eventually left organized religion. In addition, a lot of this doesn't fall cleanly into camps that easily parallel those in the US. As should be obvious Christianity is not the majority religion in every country.

While there are people who hate religion and religious people on principle, what most take issue with is when professed religious doctrine is used to direct policy, especially when it is used to discriminate against and risk the lives of others. That is the part that, at least in the US seems to cause the most friction. Again, while not every person who follows a religion does this, a large number of highly vocal people do.

AnotherPlankton wrote:

Is their mortality tied to their political ideology or separate to some extent.

People from any political ideology can steal, rape, murder, merge lanes without signaling, not return shopping carts, etc. Who they voted for doesn't change that.

AnotherPlankton wrote:

Should you treat everyone well regardless of different political ideologies or is it not possible for everyone?

Every individual has their own answers for themselves. On KYM I've often seen comments that are extremely dismissive of the suffering of others. While I cannot speak in every case, this often seems to be attempted to be tied to their political beliefs. It is not exclusive to one side, though I have definitely seen it more on specific subjects, though I feel that is likely a bias of the site and its community.

For a lot of people, how they treat people can depend on why they claim to have the beliefs they do.

Are they "conservative" because they don't want the government to see their internet search history? Do they live in the middle of nowhere and are concerned that gas taxes and tighter gun regulations are going to make them unable to live safely where they are? Or do they want to revoke marriage licenses, and healthcare, and legalize discrimination of you, your friends, and family for who you are?

Are they "liberal" because they want protections against discrimination? Do they live in a city and want functional public transportation and police reforms? Or do they think the government should assume control and ownership of all businesses and want to tie everything anyone says anonymously online to a real person?

AnotherPlankton wrote:

Is their a political belief that's considered morally superior/ideal and if so, why doesn't everyone have that belief?

As stated by Kenetic Kups, most people believe their own current beliefs are "correct". If they didn't, they generally would work to change them so they felt they were "correct". Even some of the worst political regimes in history would have told you that they felt they were "morally correct" while they were executing thousands of innocent people within their borders.

But, for a less extreme talk: a lot of people have basic core principles that they feel they cannot compromise on. There are many that would immediately swap parties if you switched which US party had a pro-life/pro-choice platform but left everything else the same. While as previously stated, it is not universal among religious people, many feel that granting LGBT people legal recognition and specific medical care is morally wrong, while others feel that denying it is morally wrong. Likewise, they may ultimately have the same objectives, but they have very different ideas on how to achieve them. Most people agree that teen pregnancy is a bad thing and should be reduced. Some feel that increasing sexual education and access to contraception is the best option due to the studies that support it. Others feel that providing sexual education and better access to contraception only encourages sexual behavior due to their principles and feel they morally cannot support it no matter what data they are shown. Both groups here feel they are being "moral" with their choices, and the opposing position is "less moral".

I think political beliefs are entirely about self-interest and have nothing to do with morality.

What about people who vote against their interests, one way or another? Conversely, who are other people to tell them that they are voting against their interests?

I'd echo what Jill & Kups said I've met people of different political beliefs, and most of the time it didn't have anything to do with if they were nice people. The only exception may be people on extreme & violent edge ideologies

It's the difference between morality vs ethics.

Well, all morality is relative, and Hitler believed mass extermination was a moral good.

Political ideology should be separate from personal ethics, everyone can be an arsehole, especially if their own morals pivot around actions that cause harm.

As someone who is right-leaning and who believes morality to be objective, my answer is… not always.
Obviously I believe that my beliefs are morally correct (because if I didn't, then they wouldn't be my beliefs to begin with). But I also think that a lot of my opponents to the left of me aren't necessarily "evil," just very misguided on some big issues. That could just be me being overly optimistic, but whatever. (Even on the abortion issue, I know that some "pro-choice" people would never want to abort their own kid.) And I also know that a lot of people who share my beliefs on certain issues are also hypocrites who don't live up to what they say. Plus, there are some on the right who I would say support the right things for the wrong reasons.
There's also the fact that "left" and "right" are arbitrary categories; I only use them because words like "liberal" and "conservative" are often associated with specific political parties.

TLDR: Even if some political beliefs are (IMO) morally right and wrong, I don't think politics always correlates with individual morality; there are misguided people who unknowingly support bad things, and there are hypocrites who dishonestly endorse good things.