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THE PUNIC WARS: A Tale of Two Cities

Map (270 BC): (link)

Roman Senate: (link)

Punic Senate: (link)

GAMEPLAY AND RULES
scroll to the end for the TLDR

In this game there will be two playing fields: the city and the world. City actions happen in real-time; you should post in your respective senate threads to discuss world events with your fellow senators, propose and vote on laws, and react to city events. Occasionally I will post in your senate thread announcing an event. Events will almost always be the result of player actions. Very few NPC elements will exist in this game.

The world map, on the other hand, is turn-based. A new turn will be posted roughly once every three days, faster if I have time and am also inspired to do so. There will never be a new turn within 24 hours of the previous one, and within 48 hours of a turn there will also not be a new turn if I do not have actions in from all players. If 48 hours have passed, however, I will post a turn even if all actions are not in, so make sure to send something to me before 48 hours have passed.

THE CITY

Above are links to two different threads. Within them you may debate with your fellow senators and formulate laws for your city. You are the ones who must also police these laws. If a senator breaks a law it is up to his fellow senators to punish him. Such punishments can be of any kind you like. You can seize property, arrest and detain, or even execute other player characters. This assumes, of course, that you can capture them or their property. You must use soldiers to do any kind of action in this game, and the actions you can take are limited only to your creativity and the physical capabilities of your soldiers.

To take actions in the city which may lead to an event you must send a PM to me titled either "ROMAN ACTION" or "PUNIC ACTION" depending upon whether you are taking action in Rome or Carthage, respectively. There will be a mandatory delay of at least one hour before that action will result in an event. This is to give you time to reverse your decision. Once an hour has passed the action is committed and you may not edit it or stop it. You must have at least one character in the city to take actions in that city. You do not need to take actions to vote on laws, simply post your vote in the thread.

THE WORLD

Turns will be posted in this thread telling about things which happen outside the walls of Rome and Carthage, specifically things that relate to those two empires. Each turn will represent five years of time. Your characters will be represented on a world map by banners which you must choose for yourself. NPC nations will generally follow historical patterns and cannot be interacted with in any meaningful way beyond invasion. The numbers represent the size and prosperity of each settlement, which will determine how many soldiers may be recruited and how much money in tax revenue will be generated.

You should send a turn to me via PM titled simply "ATOTC" without anything else in the title. No turn number, player name, etc. Just ATOTC. Editing your turn is simple: just send another one. I will only read the last PM you send me titled ATOTC. I will not read your PM titled ATOTC until I am writing the turn, so pose any questions you have for me in separate PMs or in this thread.

ARMIES

There are three different types of soldier, each costing more than the last in upkeep. Volunteers receive no wage, you simply must pay for their food and portions of their equipment. They are easy to find in the larger cities which are not rebellious or conquered, but they lack skill and, without support by stronger troops, may become slaughtered easily.

Soldiers are either professionals who have been in the wars before or have purchased equipment with the hopes of joining an army. They too can be found in your largest friendly cities, and will fight with significantly greater skill than volunteers, but they are harder to come by and have higher wages.

Mercenaries can be found everywhere, even deep within enemy territory during a war. They have greater skill than soldiers, but are not loyal to your cause. While they certainly will not betray you in the middle of a war (they have a reputation to uphold!) they may be very wary of joining your army without a reasonable up-front fee and, also unlike other recruitables, will refuse to work for you unless you agree to hire on their entire company. Additionally, mercenaries may require a large leaving-fee when disbanded, depending upon how long they fought for you and how badly their casualties were recently. If the situation is dire enough, they may even demand compensation for lost soldiers.

Different kinds of troops may be hired or trained as well. For mercenaries the type varies depending upon the region you hire them from. For your other troops, Volunteers always start as velites (unarmored, untrained, armed with javelins) and soldiers always start as light, medium, or heavy infantry (chainmail, sword/spear, shield) of various types, or as cavalry (if they can afford a horse). Looting battlefields may result in velite volunteers upgrading to soldiers or soldiers upgrading their class to medium or heavy.

SHIPS

You may move across the sea by boat, but you may wish to have ships to escort your transports across. Any number of ships will do, but be warned: if an enemy has a fleet it will be ready to intercept you and your army may possibly be destroyed at sea. The shorter the distance your army has to cross and the further from enemy territory, the less likely you are to be intercepted and thus the less escorts you will need. Fleets will not be represented on the map, but they can still be given orders. You can either wait for the harbors of your nation to gradually build ships and put them up for sale or you can commission them to build for you.

CHARACTERS

Each player gets two characters. The last name will be consistent and chosen by you (your family name), but the first name will be randomly generated for you. Characters will be capable of holding armies. Armies cannot be garrisoned at any location without a character; wherever that character goes, so does his army until it is disbanded. When a character wins a battle they will gain a 'victory' which will be kept track of on their profile. More victories means more skill and, thus, greater chances of future victory.

Each family has a home and assets. Your assets will be displayed on a spreadsheet in each turn alongside every other player's assets. All assets, with the exception of mines and ships, are located in and around your nation's capital city (Carthage or Rome). You cannot move farms or industries nor can you own any outside of the capital. The "taxes" asset will go up once you become the governor of a city. The senate may (and should!) hand out governorships of cities via popular vote or by electing an individual to make that decision. Only one individual may be the governor of any given city and that individual will receive all of the taxes from that city.

Your home is where your treasury and unnamed family members are located. If you do not feel safe in the capital, you may wish to change your home to a new location. Your family can be killed off, and if you lose your two playable characters as well then you are out of the game. When you lose a playable character a new one will be generated for you on the following turn if your family still lives.

TLDR

PM city actions to me titled as "ROMAN ACTION" or "PUNIC ACTION" depending upon which city your action is happening in. You need soldiers to do almost anything in the city. PM world actions (turns) to me titled as "ATOTC" and send edits titled as the same, with all of your actions in the latest PM you have sent. Make laws and discuss matters of importance with other players in your city's thread.

You should now post in this thread naming your family and providing an image of your family banner.
The first turn (turn zero) will be published as soon as I have both of those from each participant. There is no need to send in a PM for turn zero, so don't do that. If you want a fitting family name I can provide a list of historical Punic and Roman surnames.

Family name: Fleischmann
Family banner:

I've got no questions, I believe I get the gist.

Family Name: Vrede
Family Banner:

Family name: Errorius
Family Banner:

Family Name: Bomil
Family Banner:

Family Name: Felis
Family Banner:

Family name: Iber
Family banner:

Family name: Kargo
Family banner:

Family Name: Teddius Eres
Banner:

Family Name: Hagaspatchosbiggins
Banner:

Family Name: Aeternam
Banner:

Family Name: Bōdashtart (phoenician for "From the hand of Astarte")
Banner:

Family Name: Zonker

Banner:

Family Name: Valco

Sixteen is enough, no more players may join at this point. I need flags and names from Suspended and Spiral Nuggets, or I may make up something for you two.

Family name: Fulz
Banner

TURN 0
265 BC

Map without banners (also in OP): (link)
Map with banners: (link)
Finances: (link)
Characters: (link)

Carthage, an ancient city that grew out of a Phoenician trading port, finds its roots in Tyre. The name 'Carthage' literally means 'New City.' Rome, a newly independent city, has recently overthrown their king and conquered all of their neighbors, rapidly expanding into Italia and recently destroying Greek control over the south. Both cities have only recently adopted a republican government form, having previously been ruled by kings. Free of the complacency of their old tyrants, the people of these cities are expanding their ambition and looking upon the coasts of the Mediterranean with greed. Now the two nations come to border each other at Sicily and tensions are high.

Only 48 years ago Alexander the great died, shattering his great empire based out of Macedonia. Now the fallout of his death still affects the regions he had conquered and the world awaits the next great empire.

A mercenary group known as The Sons of Tyre are offering their services. They report having four thousand hoplites in their command and request at least five million Drachma for their contract.

MORE ON ARMIES

On the characters chart you can see how many soldiers and of which type each character commands. If a character is in a city their banner will not appear on the map, to save on clutter. If they are in a region though, the banner will show. You family's home is shown on the character chart under your username. Also, please remember that troops are required to do everything that cannot be handled by one single man, including the occupation of new properties, even if you bought them "legally."

To recruit soldiers or volunteers your character must end their turn in a city. The larger the city's number, the more recruits you can gather. Mercenaries can be recruited anywhere, though. Frequently (perhaps once per turn) a mercenary company with a large number of troops will offer their services. In your PM you can bid for them and the player with the highest bid wins their loyalty. These mercenaries will travel to you and automatically join your largest army (unless you specify otherwise).

All mercenaries in your army will merge into one company. You cannot disband any of them without dismissing all of them, unlike other troop types, which you may choose to disband in portions. Additionally, do not be surprised if this mercenary army offers its services elsewhere when you release them.

Battles will be determined by troop types, dice rolls, and the number of victories your character has. The types of troops you have will automatically become organized in the best possible formation. You do not need to give commands for battlefield maneuvers; this will be done automatically.

ELABORATION ON TROOP TYPES

Archers prefer to work in city garrisons, meaning that only mercenary pay can convince them to work in an army.

Chariots have multiple archers or javelineers riding them, but they also carry an assortment of other weapons as well. Their wheels usually are scythed, allowing them to trample and slice through unorganized formations.

Light cavalry use ranged weapons such as javelins and bows, heavy cavalry use spears and shields. There is no difference in their armor besides the shield.

Hoplites are almost completely stationary in battle and can only face in one direction. Altering their formation mid-battle is difficult and risky, so they prefer not to do it, leaving their flanks vulnerable. They can defeat any enemy coming at them from the front, almost guaranteed, but if they operate alone they can easily get surrounded and slaughtered.

Elephants can only be hired in Africa (the word 'Africa' only referred to modern-day Tunisia in this time period). Their riders use javelins or bows. Elephants are a psychological weapon, causing fear rather than doing actual damage. They can charge into a formation and shatter it easily unless it is well led or well trained.

Different types of mercenaries can be found in different places. For instance, most mercenaries found in Greece will be hoplites. Your army must be in a region to hire from it.

If you have any questions please feel free to ask in this thread.

Fantastic stuff right here. Always very high quality RPs coming from you.

Senate threads are up. Links are in the OP, but they are in the forum games section so you can't miss them. Please keep your public discussions of the game in those threads. This thread (the one titled THE PUNIC WARS) is explicitly for commenting on the game at large, asking me questions, and the posting of turns.

I will not be keeping track of your debates and decisions (although I will be reading them). The only thing I will keep track of is your city actions you PM to me. It is up to you, the players, to determine how a law is made and to keep track of the laws, edicts, and acts that you decide upon. It is also up to you to police these laws; declaring that something is illegal does not stop your fellow senators from breaking the law.

Also I still need family names and banners from Suspended and Spiral.

You can start sending your actions in now. Remember to properly title them!

I think there is a mistake in the roman senate thread (regarding me and tupolev)

Also very well thought out, I am excited

Can you summarize your guidelines for turn submissions?

Such as:

• Correct title format
• maximum amount of city actions a senator can pass at once
• restrictions on the scope of our actions
• example of an acceptable action
• example of an actionthat will just piss you off and get ignored (aside from obvious troll commands)

@OTL
I fixed it!

@BSOD
To send a city action title it "ROMAN ACTION" if it happens Rome or "PUNIC ACTION" if it happens in Carthage. You may do as many as you want at a time for now, if it gets ridiculous I will put a restriction on it. There are no restrictions that I can think of besides what remains outside the realm of reality. Just remember that you need troops to do most things, especially things which will be resisted. (World actions should be titled "ATOTC")

A few examples of things you may want to do with city actions: seize property(farms, industries, etc.), occupy purchased property, murder or arrest senators or their families, arson and sabotage, spying, theft. My imagination just died so I can't think of anything else.

Things that will piss me off or get ignored? Hmm. I can't think of anything, actually. One thing I can think of that might make me upset is confusing city actions with world actions. Keep this in mind when differentiating the two: if it happens within the city itself (or involves the surrounding farms) it is a city action. Everything else goes in your "turn" PM, titled ATOTC.

Alright, what about an example of an acceptable World Action?

Also is it possible to visit the other senate's thread and say…. negotiate?

@BSOD
World actions should primarily be things such as army movement and recruitment. In fact, I cannot actually think of much else that should be in world actions besides those two things.

@OTL
You could if you wanted to, there's nothing stopping you from posting in one thread or the other.

@Everyone
I forgot to include an indication of where the mines are. Farms and industries are, as previously stated, only in your capital city (Rome or Carthage) but mines are located all throughout the map. Such an indication of their locations will be in the next turn.

Like for this, "FARMS AND INDUSTRY have been abandoned in and around Rome thanks to the shrewd actions of the Valco family. Ten farms and two industries, previously privately owned by other citizens, are now available for occupation." and the unclaimed assets on the "The Roman Senate" thread, I assume we can purchase these things for an unspecified amount of money? Or do we bid on them against other senators or what?

@madcat
Occupy them with soldiers. You aren't buying them from anybody, the properties have been abandoned. Occasionally farms and industries will appear around your city and, while I did consider having an auction system similar to how mercenary companies are recruited, I decided instead to simply have them be a "first come first serve" kind of thing. Now, that doesn't stop you from purchasing property from other senators or auctioning off your own properties, if you so wish. But when new properties enter the game they will be open for the first person who claims them, even if that person is not the one who paid to have them become available.

Just to let you all know, the 48 hours are almost up and I am itching to write a turn but I only have a PM from two players! I know not much may happen this turn, but it would be better to send actions than not do so.

TURN 1
270 BC

Map: (link)
Finances: (link)
Characters: (link)

Before the turn, let me address you on some issues regarding PMs.

Sorry for all the confusion. It seems that many players still don't get what's going on here, despite my best attempts to explain what I wanted out of this game. The lack of PMs compared to the surplus of players (only three of you sent ATOTC actions this turn) makes me wonder whether this is a good format to keep. I hope that in a few turns things will be more obvious, but if you are still confused or overwhelmed after a while perhaps I will alter the game to be a little less info ridden and more like previous forum games that I have done. I have never run a forum game of this format before, so this is both experimental and new to me!

Feel free to ask questions, or suggest improvements/changes if you feel that all of this is too much.

Mines are now displayed in your senate threads.

Players which have not picked names or banners have had them assigned.

Ships now have a profit equation, rather than a flat profit. Each ship has an upkeep cost, but also makes money by automatically engaging in trade. The more ships there are in the Mediterranean, the more competition and therefor the less each ship makes. Beyond around 330 ships they actually start to lose money rather than make money, so watch out if you intend on hoarding fleets.

ROME

Quintis Valco takes his army and merges forces Numerius at Rhegium. Together they run a recruitment drive there that gains 2400 velites and 1600 soldiers.

A Roman Emissary to Syracuse offers alliance. Syracuse initially rejects the alliance, but then sends an emissary of their own accepting the offer once Punic soldiers arrive and besiege the city.

CARTHAGE

Anysus Bomil travels to Iol and recruits 800 velites and 400 soldiers there.

Hanno Bodashtart recruits 1600 velites, 830 soldiers, and 3000 mercenary light cavalry in Carthage. He then sets sail in search of pirate strongholds and finds one in Iadar. After raiding their bay with only minimal losses and destroying most of the pirates, the remainder of the enemy retreat within the city. The city refuses to give them up, and does not allow Hanno or his men entrance to the city.

A new policy is declared in Bodashtart armies stating that only merit, rather than family connections, will lead to promotion.

Eshmunamash Fleishmann recruits 1600 velites and 830 soldiers in Carthage. The velites are trained and bought new equipment at great expense.

Fleishmann mercenaries are transferred over to Bomil armies.

Admago Errorius recruits 1600 velites and 830 soldiers in Carthage. He then travels to Iol and hires 2500 Numidian light cavalry.

Astegal Errorius invades Syracuse alongside Yehweilon Bomil. They achieve victory after a short siege, although it seems that the city was negotiating an alliance with Rome during the siege. The garrison sallied forth and fought outside the city but failed miserably, being overwhelmed by Punic forces.

Let's talk about failure. Specifically, mine.

I am fairly certain that at this point that I can say that this game has failed. Lack of player participation makes me feel that nobody has interest in continuing this game. I tried to do something different from the classic nations RP threads that I have done in the past and, for more than one reason, it didn't pan out the way I had hoped. With only three out of sixteen people sending in a PM each turn it seems that this game is dead in the water for lack of interested participants.

I can understand why, and I have a few thoughts on what went wrong. It was suggested by Gary that the timing was wrong due to finals, but I am doubtful. Another person (Moargun) suggested that it was because the splitting of the game into three separate threads was alienating lazy participants. The reasons that I have thought of are mostly related to the game's unique format. The specific time period may not interest everybody, being shunted into teams was not appreciated by some, and there was a lot of confusion due to the two different types of PMs you were to send me as well as the excess of information required to understand the game.

I want to run a successful forum game and I do not want to force something that does not work. As most of you well know, 90% of the time I have spent here on the KYM forums was invested in history-based forum games and I really do enjoy running a game that works and has interested participants. I am, regrettably, announcing the death of this game. I wish to start a new game, based on classic Nations RP rules, fairly soon. I am hoping that the tried-and-true format will appeal to most who sign up to play. To those of you who were actively and excitedly participating, I am sorry to disappoint you.

Aww shucks. Well I tried, if that means anything.

I kept our super secret special Punic discussion document as active as I could with planning and preparation for the Roman invasion that was undoubtedly coming towards Sicily.

But I kinda sensed things were going downhill when I realized only myself, Spider Byte and Crow were using it to seriously organize a plan. I still didn't get any feedback on my discussion on how to defend Sicily. And then an action to wreck Carthage came out of nowhere. We still don't know who did that. I think that shows nobody was taking the game seriously enough

I think half our team just plain forgot the game existed

I think for the most part, this was bad luck, as opposed to just poor game mechanic. With the city actions happening in real time, you'd think people would be more engaged. So maybe the lack of engagement really was due to other factors like those studies. I'm full time employed so I don't have studies to distract me. But others like Gary definitely couldn't keep up with what was going on.

I also feel this was a more complex and advanced game than usual. And it was a new experience entirely for some participants. The added layers of complexity behind making both city actions and separate world actions might have made it too much for brand new players.

This game also required a ton of team cooperation to survive. Yet despite that, teams were also semi-competing with each other. Friendly Fire was enabled. Another factor that might have required more leadership from experienced players.

Perhaps things would go better with a more simplified entry-level type RP that even people totally new to this could pick up quickly