Forums / Discussion / Serious Debate

(Note: basically everything in this initial post is what I learned from this TvTropes article and while it's not necessary to read, I'd still recommend taking a gander if you're bored.)

So, what do y'all think about animation today? Is it doing poorly? Is it doing well? Is it recovering? Is it stagnating? Share your thoughts. Everything beyond this paragraph is an optional read. It will basically just be some context on the topic, and then my personal thoughts.

========

So, yeah, story time. "The Renaissance Age of Animation" lasted from the 80's to the 00's, according to the internet. After the new millennium began, so too did the " The Millennium Age of Animation". (Keep in mind, like a lot of things, this change didn't occur overnight.) I mention this not because I mean to "bash kids who born after the 90's" but instead provide additional context to discuss changes and trends.

For example, I remember when I was a kid (just for reference, I was born in '91) Disney animated films were roughly 45% sequels, 35% new animated movies, and 10% completely computer animated. But when I think back on the past few years, I can't remember the last time I've seen an animated movie by Disney that didn't involve Pixar.

Another trend I've noticed is the rise (and fall) of animation on the web. Back when Newgrounds was a thing, tons of people were picking up flash and making stuff for the world to see. There was a lot of crud, obviously, but there were also a lot of talented up-and-comers that produced a lot of great stuff who got better over time, and it was easy to find the "diamonds in the rough" thanks to the interactive design of Newgrounds. These days however, due to things like YouTube's algorithms REALLY not doing any favors for animators, and the fact that it's been ten years, most of the "original" talents have either moved on up or moved on, so Newgrounds has stagnated as well. Things haven't totally died though, what with YouTube channels like Frederator and some of the former Newgrounds "posse" such as Egoraptor encouraging the creation of animations (even if they are tributes or parodies of their own content.) Flipnote Hatenea was also really cool, but ever since the transition to 3DS I haven't figured out how to keep up with it.

TV seems to have to continue this trend of mixed results. On the one hand, there are a LOT of examples of cartoons that just seem "soulless" and "mass-produced" such as Johnny Test and the ilk. And a lot of other older series seemed to have jumped the shark, such as the Simpsons and Spongebob Squarepants. On the other hand, there have been a few series that weren't just good, but borderline awesome (in the original sense, i.e. inspiring feelings of awe). Adventure Time, Over the Garden Wall, Gravity Falls, Steven Universe are the ones I'm familiar with, and they were not only great as cartoons, but they felt like they had something "more". Like, I re-watched some Goof Troop, Quack Pack, and Animaniacs recently, and they were all as good as I remembered, but they didn't have that "extra" quality. There's also a few more recent examples that I've heard that are popular, like "The Amazing Adventures of Gumball" and that one about the raccoon and the blue jay, but I haven't given them as much attention.

Cartoons clearly meant for adults have also become way more popular. As a kid, I hated learning about the existence of Adult Swim (because I couldn't watch Teen Titans one more time late at night) but these days my feelings are a lot more mixed. I mean, personally, I never really "clicked" with most of them (even Rick and Morty) but I don't hate them, they're just not my thing. On the other hand, it's nice to see a medium being "less confined" to a specific niche, even if the new territory isn't always entirely appropriate for everyone (but certainly not ever inappropriate for everyone.)

The only other things I can think about are that PBS cartoons still seem to have the same "soul" even if the shows have changed over the years, and anime (and as a result, manga) have exploded over the years, which I find to be a good thing, even if it's not always easy for me to find and track down what everyone's talking about. Oh, and Saturday morning cartoons have seemed to totally disappear. Bummer.

======

In conclusion, it's been a mixed bag. Unlike the transition from "The Golden Age of Animation" to "The Dark Age of Animation" (which I believe was considered to generally be more of a bummer than a boon) or the transition from "The Dark Age of Animation" to "The Renaissance Age of Animation", the transition from "The Renaissance Age of Animation" to "The Millennium Age of Animation" has been roughly evenly give and take.

I feel like the two biggest factors behind this change are increased globalization and computer technology becoming more accessible and advanced. And they've both provided costs and benefits.

Increased globalization means not only anime, but animation from around the whole word is becoming more accessible, which means more exchanges of ideas, and more accessibility to incredible works of animation. On the other hand, that means more jobs in animation can be outsourced, and frauds and bootlegs become more of a problem with non-corporate animators who create a real hit.

Increased technology means it's easier than ever to learn and practice animation, there's a lot more animation to come across (both new and old), and more efficient and more accessible forms of communication mean that fans find it easier to connect with creators, potential fans, and other fans. On the other hand, with the development of new technology, "the bar has been raised" and just knowing how to draw doesn't seem to draw images that would look nice when shown in rapid succession isn't enough anymore. And while there's more opportunities to share your work than ever, there's also more competition than ever.

One last thing I think is worth noting is that despite all the good and the bad, animation is still "growing" to "cover more territory". Cartoons are no longer just for kids, programmers are now just as valuable as artist to animation, barriers between cultures and languages are being overcome more easily, and animations that show a lot of "soul" and/or a lot of great ideas are easily finding attention.

Now that I think about it, I guess this emphasis on increased globalization and strides in technology, together with the mixed bag of results with a few major definite good things matches well with the industrial era, which would mean the progression of classical era to the dark ages to the Renaissance would continue to match up with the periods of animation.
=======

Well, that's it. Sorry if it was too long. Feel free to share your thoughts, ask questions, and/or yell at I mean comment on or correct anything I wrote in my massive wall of text. Who knows, maybe one of the two people who lived through reading my whole spiel will comment on what I mentioned on the influence of the internet on animation, and that will start a conversation?

I feel more of those changes happened when the internet started rising,I was born in 95 so by the time i had conscience most of the stuff i watched was from late 90 and early 2000 i still watched some stuff from 90 but i don't have any special attachment and also never watched any nicktoons, i remember watching a lot of cartoon network stuff.
But like i said a lot of stuff changed when the internet started being something everyone could use not just some people, word of mouth starts spreading, i feel this is why web animation became so popular in the 2000's but like everything popular it starts dying after some time
Also our tastes change as time goes on, we start appreciating things on a whole different way, And like the nostalgia critic said, people who grew loving animation and cartoons grow up and make their own stuff inspired by those things they liked, this is why we are starting to see more quality cartoons these days, Sure there is a bunch of garbage is being produced, but people tend to forget how bad some cartoons of the past could be, a lot of stuff created just to sell toys but kids in the 90 just forget about that and just remember what was good
And anime, It was kinda popular but never got that popular until the internet happened, a lot of good animes were forgotten because they were never dubbed but now new animes get the attention they deserve thanks to the internet
Also cartoons started feeling mass produced when flash (or digital animation tools in general) made shows easier to produce so companies wanted to make as much money as they could by throwing as many shows as they could, but now companies realize they can't really do that anymore
And i've rewatched some stuff i used to love but i cant get hooked like i used to do as a kid, sometimes i even get annoyed by some of the stuff i used to love, because times change, we change.

I don't have much to comment on at all as far as how I think the internet has shaped the animation industry, so I'm mostly just going to spout my thoughts on the content itself that is being put out

I feel a little weird judging the entire "Millennium Era" in one group. 2000-2016 is a long fuckin time, and to say a lot has changed in animation in that time span would be an understatement. This time period pretty much covers my entire frame of memory. I was born in '94 but I pretty much can't remember jack shit of what happened before '99.

The early 2000s animation produced quite a number of memorable classics for television (Samurai Jack, Kids Next Door, Fairly Odd Parents, the better Spongebob seasons, etc.) It was a good time to be a kid watching cartoons between '00 to about I'd say '05. Disney was not doing as well financially as they were in the 80s and 90s, but I would still argue they put out some real quality work in the early 2000s. I just loved how experimental the movies got with their style, often having guest artists come in and basically do the designs for everything (The artist for Hellboy came in and did the designs for Atlantis). Treasure Planet, Atlantis, and Emperor's New Groove were not big hits in Disney's eyes, but ask pretty much anyone my age and they will tell you how badass they thought those movies were and even sometimes list one of those three as their favorite Disney movie. All three of those movies are on Netflix and I still once in a while like to play them if anything just to appreciate the visuals. Dreamworks was making its mark in the animated movie world with Shrek, among other movies. These cartoons were generally enjoyable for both kids and adults to watch, but there really wasn't much there geared for older audiences beyond the "adult jokes" thrown in here and there. I will not deny the quality of the shows in that time period, but every time I try to go back and watch them, I really don't get past a few episodes. There just isn't enough there for me to keep me interested overall.

2005 to 2010 was pretty much where everything went downhill for animation really quickly. At the time I thought I wasn't enjoying cartoons anymore because I was getting older and the prepubescence train was comin in the station real fast. Looking back now, I wasn't enjoying cartoons then because they just plain sucked. There were a few good shows, like Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends, Avatar, and Danny Phantom, but they were definitely exceptions and not the rule. Spongebob started to outstay its welcome, Fairly Odd Parents was on its way out, and every other cartoon was a Spongebob clone that was more annoying than actually funny. Pixar was still putting out good movies if my internal timeline is correct, but Disney… Not so much. Dreamworks wasn't doing so hot either. There were a few gold nuggets that stood out among the shit, but overall this time period pretty much killed cartoons for me for a while and I'd pretty much made the full switch to anime. Pretty good time for Nick and Disney's live action sitcoms, but not much else.

It's actually pretty incredible thinking of how much the quality of cartoons improved in just the year 2010 and how much it snowballed from there. We got Adventure Time and My Little Pony on television (say what you want about these two shows, you can not deny that these shows pretty much shaped the cartoon industry for the next 6 years) and this was also the year that Dreamworks release How to Train Your Dragon and Disney released Tangled (my personal favorite movie). Then we got Amazing World of Gumball and Regular Show following shortly after, and suddenly Cartoon Network was regaining its footing again. I pretty much only paid attention to these shows in the background and didn't fully get into cartoons again until about 2012 when I picked up MLP and Legend of Korra (I think my first post on this forum was in a TLA/LoK thread), and shortly after that started watching Gravity Falls when it was only, like, 3 episodes in. Man, it's kinda freaky to think that this show started just after I graduated high school and has now gone on long enough to reach its conclusion. How time flies. I pretty much had was getting my feet wet in the "cartoon fandom" at this point. I can't say I started getting truly invested in cartoons until about the time I picked up Steven Universe in late 2014 and absolutely fell in love with it. And then I picked up Star vs. the Forces of Evil and fell in love with it even more than Steven Universe, which is funny considering I had such a luke warm first impression of it compared to SU which I fell in love with immediately. And now I'm pretty much in cartoon hell where all my television watching schedule is based around cartoons and it's all I ever wanna talk about.This of course isn't even mentioning adult cartoons, which have also started kicking it up a notch with shows like Rick and Morty (which I've honestly only watched like two episodes of) and Bojack Horseman. I've seen statements from Cartoons Network and Disney Channel that claim they are focusing on giving the show creators more power over what happens in their show and are aiming for much less executive meddling (which is the whole reason Alex Hirsch chose Disney to air Gravity Falls). They're aiming for more creative freedom and less taking the safe road and I can see it is really paying off for them already. And of course Disney has basically been rolling out one hit after another with their movies, and Dreamworks has been putting out some good quality work too. This current time period of cartoons is honestly my favorite one. I find myself rewatching episodes of SU and Star vs. over and over again, and I can't say that about any show from the past decades. There's been a huge push for overarching plots and detailed storylines, and that is exactly the kind of stuff I wanna see. Not to mention a lot of these shows manage to be heart wrenching as balls and I can't get enough of that shit.

I hate that a lot of them have the same style.




It's like CalArts standardized a style and everyone's defaulted to it.

I feel because they found an art style that can be simple, easy to animate, but can give space to fluid animation and interesting character designs and be pleasant to the eyes of the public
And it makes drawing fan art easier
I like the art style and don't mind if they kept using it for other cartoons
Do i want animators to use another style or create a new style? Absolutely, as long as its good and it fits to the show

Every generation of animation has it's own "look" to it. Gennedy Tartakovski's and Craig McCracken's work in the 90s/early 2000s looked exactly the same to the point where I thought their shows were all made by the same guy when I was a kid. Most Disney princesses looked like Ariel or Belle in the 90s and today they all look like Rapunzel. Every cartoon in the 80s looked like He-Man. Cartoons from the 60s look like Bugs Bunny. It happens partly because a lot of these animators work together and so their styles are going to borrow from each other a lot, and partly because it's just the trend and it's what's most appealing to audiences at the moment. Cartoons have been using that kidney-bean headshape for their characters since pretty much the dawn of chartoons for children. I also feel that it's greatly exaggerated that all the shows "look the same". Nobody is going to be confusing a screenshot of Regular Show with a screenshot of Gravity Falls. I honestly don't even know where you're getting at with the Regular show and Uncle Grandpa examples, they don't look like other cartoons on the air at all. Have you ever actually watched an episode of Uncle Grandpa? That shit is pretty off the wall bonkers, and if there's one thing I can give it credit for it's the fact that there's not another show on tv like it. Also you can find variety in the visuals in plenty of cartoons currently on the air. Gumball makes a point of using every animation style they can get their hands on and making their characters look as unique as possible. There's a character that's literally a teddy bear shape cut out of a piece of crumpled paper.Teen Titans Go has much more angular forms and really pumps up the saturation of their colors. Wander Over Yonder has character animations that are super bendy and wiggly, and background environments that will blow you away. Penn Zero: Part Time Hero really plays around with textures and has a cut-paper like look to it. Miraculous Ladybug is the best example for a cg animated television show I have ever seen. You could watch any of the shows I just listed if you're starving for visual variety. There is literally no shortage of variety in visual style for animation right now and I feel most people who argue otherwise haven't actually looked into the subject beyond noticing a lot of characters have kidney-bean heads and have a much "cleaner" look to it compared to the much more rough and ragged look of the 90s and early 2000s

What do I think of the modern era? I don't think we've hit a new Golden Age. Instead, what I propose has happened is that we've entered the ACTUAL Dark Age of Animation.

We're all quick to call the Mid-2000s as the Dark Age because of our notion that the Dark Ages were, well, "dark." But the reason the Dark Ages were dubbed thus was due to a loss of knowledge, technique and order from the Fall of Rome and the destruction of the Library of Alexandria. The Mid-2000s were the Fall, and now we're still in a bit of a Dark Age, whereby things are getting better, but it's with a severed connection to the techniques of the past. Most of these shows are made with new audiences and animation techniques and styles that we haven't seen before, whereas the Mid-2000s still looked like what the Golden Era was producing in the way they were drawn and aped many styles from it. More importantly, in my personal opinion, none of the shows to come out have really made as much of an impact as those from the Golden Age. While Rick and Morty might be the front runner for Adult Cartoons, it's up in the air for children's media, since I haven't seen all of GF yet, but I've been caught up on just about everything else, and really only Over the Garden Wall gets to call itself "great" out of that group.

But the big reason this description is so appropriate is that the new generation takes advantage of social media and the internet to form fandoms and spread quickly, which has also resulted in awful consequences (i.e. SU fandom controversy). It makes more sense when you realize that for the past few years, Japan has had several majorly popular anime titles break into the mainstream, including the arrival of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure's full anime series, Attack on Titan, One Punch Man and MSG: Iron Blooded Orphans. The anime industry is replicating the Islamic Renaissance that occurred simultaneously with the European Dark Ages.