Forums / Discussion / Serious Debate

Catalan is an autonomous community in the northeast of Spain. There's suppose to be a independence referendum on 1st October but the Spain government is against it.

I don't live in Spain, so hoping to get opinions from Spanish users about this situation.

Don't they do this like all the time? Anyway I wish them luck.

I find it weird that they willing to go with this even with no international support in case of "Yes" win no EU money, etc.

I also wonder the domino effect to other regions of Spain.

Sadly the Spanish government has made the mistake of trying to repress the vote. Polls indicated, (before the attempt to repress by arresting 14 leaders of the Catalonia government, seizure of the ballots, and threatening 700 judges who offered to open their courtrooms to voters), that the population would vote it down. The highest court in the land has said the vote is not allowed under the Spanish constitution (in agreement with the federal attorney's office -- like the US Attorney General) but the Catalan leadership insists they will hold the referendum no matter what.

Two years ago a non-binding referendum on the same question was held and the measure was voted down. The difference between then and now is that this referendum is binding….meaning the government of Catalonia would be required to act upon it, declaring independence.

If you ask why they want to be independent there are two basic reasons: economic and cultural. Catalonia is the richest and most prosperous part of Spain. Thus, like anywhere else, a percentage of their economy supports areas outside their area. In other words, they have a negative tax balance with their tax dollars supporting others. In addition, they speak a different language and the Spanish government has, in the past, tried to restrict the use of that language (think French in Quebec and if the Canadian government suddenly tried to get the Quebec to stop speaking French). So they want to leave for economic and cultural reasons.

The European Union will not recognize an independent Catalonia. The US will not recognize an independent Catalonia. Spain (of course) will not recognize an independent Catalonia. In the end even if they voted for independence AND declared independence the only thing that would happen is that they would then enter into a civil war they would lose and end up ruining their own economy for years, if not decades, to come. Perhaps that is why the Spanish government's repressive measures actually made things worse. For if they had let the vote proceed, and if the polls were wrong and Catalonia voted for independence, and if the Catalan leaders declared independence, and if Spain recognized Catalan independence, and if the the world also recognized it, well, then Catalonia would enter the world as the 187th independent nation. But if any one point (other than, perhaps Spain recognizing Catalonia independence) things don't go right for the independence movement, then Catalonia would be plunged into an economic no-mans land at best and a civil war at the worst.

Thus, on the question of Catalan independence, if I were a Catalan and allowed to vote, I'd vote "no," even if I were for it.

AJ

Not the first time they've done this

Apparently people who are livestreaming this are starting to hear gunshots by police. One livestreamer I was watching cut out right after gunshots were heard.

That's wild.

Where can I find Catalonian streams? no sarcasm

Here's one:

Isn't trying to suppress the referendum proving Catalan's point of Spanish democracy being rotten?

That's what will always happen every time anyone tries to secede from a government, so no surprises there.

If you want to see a bunch of videos of police beating the fuck out of people trying to vote, here you go.

Apparently the local police and the national police are butting heads now. Spain pulled in specifically the national police to suppress the vote, but there's local police who aren't taking this sitting down protecting voters.

Right now it's just a shoving match.

The Catalan firefighters have taken to protecting voters from the Spanish police.

But the police are beating them too.

So it's basically already a civil war, being fought by emergency services instead of armed forces?

Victory for Catalonia!

Now they need to bring in the United Nations to mediate the separation so Spain will BTFO.