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Ending the cycle of Pokemon misinformation on KnowYourMeme

Last posted Nov 25, 2019 at 08:52AM EST. Added Nov 21, 2019 at 09:24PM EST
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In light of how fast the new Pokemon games sold this week, I'd like to clear up the most common "arguments" made on this site in an attempt to get everyone's minds straight.

1. "Gamefreak lied because the old models are reused, and they said new models were made from scratch!"
>Did you know "from scratch" doesn't actually exist in the Japanese language? When they said new models, they were talking about the new pokemon. Why do I say this? Because when they were referring to old monsters:
Notice how wireframes aren't included in these changes.
Also, a direct translation of the word モデル (moderu) means texture, not model. With this in mind, along with the evidence we have now with the games out, Gamefreak meant to say that they were remaking ASPECTS of the old models, NOT REDOING THEM ENTIRELY. (Google Translate may say model, but that's not a reliable source, now, is it?) The whole text you're basing your argument on is badly translated. Don't believe me? Try arguing with an actual Japanese speaker that says otherwise →https://twitter.com/PKavvoutas/status/1197279428335849472

2. "The graphics and animations are too shitty to justify the dex cut."
>This is a straw man. Masuda stated that graphics wasn't the main reason for the dex cut. Right after the graphics comment, he said this: "But even more than [graphics], it's coming down to the battle system. We're making sure we can keep everything balanced and give all the Pokemon that appear in the games a chance to shine."
So complain about graphics all you want, they aren't the reason why your favorites are gone.

3. "Not everyone in BBND is toxic! Stop judging us based on them!"
>Hey, the anti-BBND crowd has toxic eggs, too. But I don't see any people clamoring about them. Meanwhile, it's ironic you say that while so many people on this site are labeling SwSh supporters as "apologists" or "shills." You're telling the rest of the world not to label you, when you label others. Doesn't seem very reliable.

4. "We're not harassing! We're criticizing!
>Is it really criticism when you're spamming a hashtag and argument for 4 months? While also denouncing people who support the games for what they are? If it was really constructive criticism, you would also be noticing the positives as well as the negatives. But all I've seen is people focusing on the negatives.

5. "People don't care about quality! All they care about is brand recognition!"
>If it was a bad game by design, then maybe that would be the case. But there's enough video evidence on YouTube and Twitch to suggest otherwise.

If you have any more arguments, go for it. But the numbers don't lie – 6 million people bought the games despite the controversies surrounding them, and that's saying something for sure.

Last edited Nov 21, 2019 at 09:26PM EST

People aren't actually saying any of those things. If you stopped exaggerating their points and listened you may find more common ground. You've been arguing AT people instead of debating WITH people. Everything you've stated here people have had rebuttals for in the comments, pictures, and other venues. I would systematically go through and debate but you've already demonstrated you don't seriously want one.

As someone who gets paid by a video game company I find it funny that you defend one for free.

“Paid for by GameFreak Inc”

Silence unpaid shill part III I do it for free

This is too many words to read.

Its just a video game my dude

Also, a direct translation of the word モデル (moderu) means texture, not model.

Who the fuck are you trying to fool here? Moderu absolutely means "model"--it's a direct loanword from English.

Source: Jisho, Japanese word for "dictionary".

Last edited Nov 22, 2019 at 01:32AM EST

Do not fault the rest of us for having standards. Pokemon is the most lucrative franchise in the world, eclipsing even Disney's individual intellectual properties.

Criticisms of the game are completely fair and justified. If a company is not putting out their best work why settle for anything less?

You have an obsession.

An RPG with with no rpg features, which constantly holds your hand and won't let you play the game 5 minutes without someone coming over to tell you where to go and how to play the game, is bad design. Ever since X and Y pokemon has had this problem of assuming every pokemon game is your first, and thus filling it with so many tutorials that you feel constrained and talked down to. In SnS, that problem is even more prevelent then in SnM, and that game was notorious for its pacing issues and constant tutorial npc pop-ups.

Maybe you should get a new hobbie.

Um, miss, this is a Taco Bell.

I have no idea why you're being so stubbornly adamant about being right over Pokemon Sword/Shield. If you like Sword/Shield, then that's fine, but you're being incredibly obnoxious and childish towards anyone who has legitimate problems with the games. For someone who claims to be against toxicity, you sure do like to mock people for not agreeing with you.

Oh, and another thing that I feel bears repeating: high sales =/= quality product. Again, Sword/Shield are not necessarily bad games, but there's plenty of glaring issues with them that people have pointed out. So get off your goddamn high horse.

I see that you're resorting to the most classic of debate tactics: downvoting everyone who disagrees with you. So "mature" of you, that really shows everyone that you're right.

Either way, I'd say that SwSh is a meh game. It leaves a lot to be desired storywise, cause there was no reason for Rose to do what he did, because the energy problem that he's worried about won't happen for a very long time. There is also no "bad guy" in the game, cause every "bad guy" is just a good guy who's trying to do good, but in a wrong way. The closest you get are 2 pompous dicks who're trying to prove that the box legends aren't Galar's heroes that save the region during the "Darkest Day" event., and even then, by the end of the post game story, they do a heel turn and acknowledge that they are wrong. The story's trying to be like 7th and/or 5th gen's, but coming out as a very watered down USUM. TLDR: You're trying to become the regional champion while cleaning up the mess of some rich idiot(s), and some crazy fans. The only thing I like is that the game isn't as hand holding as 7th gen.

Gameplay-wise, I love the wild area, but at the same time hate it. I mostly hate it because you can find just about every pokemon in the dex there. Sure you can find about all of them in the other routes, but in the wild area you have access to raid battles. These raid battles basically do a competitive player's work for them in making pokemon too, with the more stars a raid has, the more perfect IVs the mon has, and a little bonus being that raid mons have their hidden abilities too, or at least a good chance at having them. It's also the ONLY way to get any G-maxed pokemon other than Charizard, which by the way, G-maxing does nothing but give you an "signature G-max move" which is just a regular D-max move alternate effect. Sure some are useful, but I wouldn't be surprised of they end up retconning G-max forms to be Mega Evos but with different mechanics. And with G-maxing to be exclusive to Galar, I'd bet that we're just looking at some of the next megas.

The game really could've been something too if all the pokemon where there. Because with the new abilities and mons, there could've been a lot of new combos with cut mons that could've shaken up the meta. Sadly with mons like Slaking and Regigigas being cut, they shafted Weezing's potential in double battles, and all he's there for right now is just canceling out pokemon who rely on their abilities. I'd say this game is only worth $30-$40.

Graphics don't really matter, especially since they still make purrloin look weird by making it stand on 2 legs all the time. All the improved graphics are is just importing the shrunk down hd models from USUM and giving some touch ups to the textures.

This game seems to me like it'll take no time to complete the dex, and get competitive pokemon just cause there's very limited options monwise. They even got rid of moves that make certain pokemon viable in competitive in the first place (Hidden Power Roserade, Return on normal types, and other pokemon that change normal type moves' types, and Vespiquen with Roost) The only reason I got the game in the first place was to get all the galar mons so I could transfer them to a later, hopefully with the nat dex, game.

I'm not really mad at the game, I'm just disappointed.

Last edited Nov 22, 2019 at 07:06PM EST

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VentingPaladin wrote:

I see that you're resorting to the most classic of debate tactics: downvoting everyone who disagrees with you. So "mature" of you, that really shows everyone that you're right.

Either way, I'd say that SwSh is a meh game. It leaves a lot to be desired storywise, cause there was no reason for Rose to do what he did, because the energy problem that he's worried about won't happen for a very long time. There is also no "bad guy" in the game, cause every "bad guy" is just a good guy who's trying to do good, but in a wrong way. The closest you get are 2 pompous dicks who're trying to prove that the box legends aren't Galar's heroes that save the region during the "Darkest Day" event., and even then, by the end of the post game story, they do a heel turn and acknowledge that they are wrong. The story's trying to be like 7th and/or 5th gen's, but coming out as a very watered down USUM. TLDR: You're trying to become the regional champion while cleaning up the mess of some rich idiot(s), and some crazy fans. The only thing I like is that the game isn't as hand holding as 7th gen.

Gameplay-wise, I love the wild area, but at the same time hate it. I mostly hate it because you can find just about every pokemon in the dex there. Sure you can find about all of them in the other routes, but in the wild area you have access to raid battles. These raid battles basically do a competitive player's work for them in making pokemon too, with the more stars a raid has, the more perfect IVs the mon has, and a little bonus being that raid mons have their hidden abilities too, or at least a good chance at having them. It's also the ONLY way to get any G-maxed pokemon other than Charizard, which by the way, G-maxing does nothing but give you an "signature G-max move" which is just a regular D-max move alternate effect. Sure some are useful, but I wouldn't be surprised of they end up retconning G-max forms to be Mega Evos but with different mechanics. And with G-maxing to be exclusive to Galar, I'd bet that we're just looking at some of the next megas.

The game really could've been something too if all the pokemon where there. Because with the new abilities and mons, there could've been a lot of new combos with cut mons that could've shaken up the meta. Sadly with mons like Slaking and Regigigas being cut, they shafted Weezing's potential in double battles, and all he's there for right now is just canceling out pokemon who rely on their abilities. I'd say this game is only worth $30-$40.

Graphics don't really matter, especially since they still make purrloin look weird by making it stand on 2 legs all the time. All the improved graphics are is just importing the shrunk down hd models from USUM and giving some touch ups to the textures.

This game seems to me like it'll take no time to complete the dex, and get competitive pokemon just cause there's very limited options monwise. They even got rid of moves that make certain pokemon viable in competitive in the first place (Hidden Power Roserade, Return on normal types, and other pokemon that change normal type moves' types, and Vespiquen with Roost) The only reason I got the game in the first place was to get all the galar mons so I could transfer them to a later, hopefully with the nat dex, game.

I'm not really mad at the game, I'm just disappointed.

Thank you for acknowledging the downvoting out of disagreement, and I respect that you think this game could've been more. However, there is still some misunderstanding here that I'd like to address. The "shrunk down hd models" aren't complete rips. There are cases of models being edited and updated, such as with Noibat:

And I don't think you're giving the graphics enough credit. The 3DS didn't have dynamic lighting, and we get shots like these:

But regardless, you ARE right in that we don't play Pokemon for graphics. Whether or not the game is fun is the most important factor.

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wisehowl_the_2nd wrote:

People aren't actually saying any of those things. If you stopped exaggerating their points and listened you may find more common ground. You've been arguing AT people instead of debating WITH people. Everything you've stated here people have had rebuttals for in the comments, pictures, and other venues. I would systematically go through and debate but you've already demonstrated you don't seriously want one.

As someone who gets paid by a video game company I find it funny that you defend one for free.

Fight me on Twitter, then. You'll see for yourself.

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Kenetic Kups wrote:

“Paid for by GameFreak Inc”

Freakenstein wrote:

Also, a direct translation of the word モデル (moderu) means texture, not model.

Who the fuck are you trying to fool here? Moderu absolutely means "model"--it's a direct loanword from English.

Source: Jisho, Japanese word for "dictionary".

Not all the models are complete rips, either.

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Derptastic Derp Man wrote:

Tell that to the guys still mad at the game for being as successful as it is.

Look, Kinstuta. I didn't buy the game 'cuz I didn't like it. But I don't go around telling people not to buy 'em or cry "stop liking what I don't like". Is it so hard to drop the issue and just agree to disagree?

BravelyDefect wrote:

Do not fault the rest of us for having standards. Pokemon is the most lucrative franchise in the world, eclipsing even Disney's individual intellectual properties.

Criticisms of the game are completely fair and justified. If a company is not putting out their best work why settle for anything less?

If you have standards, then you shouldn't be faulting other people for having lower ones. That's just rude. Nobody's obligated to think in the way you think. No pokemon fan is required to care about the National Dex, or its absence in the latest games. Don't enforce your standards onto others just because you're not satisfied. If they want to have fun, let them. People are allowed to have fun with games you don't like.

OH YEAH wrote:

Look, Kinstuta. I didn't buy the game 'cuz I didn't like it. But I don't go around telling people not to buy 'em or cry "stop liking what I don't like". Is it so hard to drop the issue and just agree to disagree?

Oh, you'll be surprised how many people are still like that on Twitter, KnowYourMeme, and other sites. There are still people out there who are gatekeeping others. I can show you them on Twitter.

Black Graphic T wrote:

An RPG with with no rpg features, which constantly holds your hand and won't let you play the game 5 minutes without someone coming over to tell you where to go and how to play the game, is bad design. Ever since X and Y pokemon has had this problem of assuming every pokemon game is your first, and thus filling it with so many tutorials that you feel constrained and talked down to. In SnS, that problem is even more prevelent then in SnM, and that game was notorious for its pacing issues and constant tutorial npc pop-ups.

Tutorials take a backseat in this generation. If you catch a pokemon before talking to Hop, you can skip the catching tutorial. You can skip long cutscenes simply by saying "no." And "no rpg features"? The fixed Exp share reduces grinding, like how experience is handled in modern RPGs like Persona 5.

poochyena wrote:

Its just a video game my dude

I know. But apparently, some pokemon fans still can't let go of the past to have fun in the present.

Tubo Qjoft wrote:

Silence unpaid shill part III I do it for free

Wow, how original. As if you can prove I was paid.

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Gallantmon wrote:

I have no idea why you're being so stubbornly adamant about being right over Pokemon Sword/Shield. If you like Sword/Shield, then that's fine, but you're being incredibly obnoxious and childish towards anyone who has legitimate problems with the games. For someone who claims to be against toxicity, you sure do like to mock people for not agreeing with you.

Oh, and another thing that I feel bears repeating: high sales =/= quality product. Again, Sword/Shield are not necessarily bad games, but there's plenty of glaring issues with them that people have pointed out. So get off your goddamn high horse.

How ironic. As if it's not obnoxious and childish to downvote something in support of Sword/Shield just because you disagree. The reason why I'm being stubborn is because there's way too much hate for these games on this site. While some may be criticism, the majority of the stuff I see is just venting out of the loss of the National Dex. People are being too irrational. I think this quote explains it best:

People have different standards for what's a glaring issue and what's not. "One man's trash is another man's treasure." What you see as "problems" may not be problems in another player's eyes. For instance, while some people think the fixed Exp. share is making the game easier, others are relieved that they don't have to do as much grinding as the older games. While you may not think these are quality games, a lot of people still have fun with them. If you don't like the games, then I won't stop you. But it's important to acknowledge the facts instead of obscuring them to feel right.

Amazing contribution to a dying forum.

Q-mii Productions wrote:

Wow, how original. As if you can prove I was paid.

Do you even know what the word “unpaid“ is? And don’t play stupid, you made this account just for this game, your history proves that. Walks like a duck, talks like a duck, posts like a duck… It’s prolly a duck. Silence unpaid shill part V how are you alive?

How ironic. As if it's not obnoxious and childish to downvote something in support of Sword/Shield just because you disagree

Said the person who downvotes and goes "hoes mad" at people who disagree with you on Sword/Shield. You shouldn't be throwing stones in your glass house.

The reason why I'm being stubborn is because there's way too much hate for these games on this site.

Here's an idea: Instead of trying to force your opinion onto people who clearly don't agree with you, like you've stated multiple times in this thread in regards to this site, why not just cut your losses, enjoy your game, and leave the people who don't want to play SwSh alone? All your doing at this point is shouting at a brick wall. Surely, you've got better things to do than try to win some argument on the Internet over a game.

Last edited Nov 23, 2019 at 12:29AM EST

"I like something, and other people don't. Rather then assess my own standpoint, or attempt to examine why I enjoy something that others do not, I will pout and aggressively argue. Then, when people respond to my hostility with negativity, I will pretend like I was never aggressive, thus proving my superiority against these unprovoked and unenlightened Luddites. Check and Mate, Poke-nerds, you've just been Dyna-Trolled-To-The-Max!" ~ Kintsuta, the intellectual too smart for our humble forum.

Q-mii Productions wrote:

If you have standards, then you shouldn't be faulting other people for having lower ones. That's just rude. Nobody's obligated to think in the way you think. No pokemon fan is required to care about the National Dex, or its absence in the latest games. Don't enforce your standards onto others just because you're not satisfied. If they want to have fun, let them. People are allowed to have fun with games you don't like.

“If you have standards then you shouldn’t be faulting people for having lower ones, that’s just rude”
aka
“Let everything go to hell becuase telling the moronic masses they’re eating shit will hurt their feelings”

Q-mii Productions wrote:

If you have standards, then you shouldn't be faulting other people for having lower ones. That's just rude. Nobody's obligated to think in the way you think. No pokemon fan is required to care about the National Dex, or its absence in the latest games. Don't enforce your standards onto others just because you're not satisfied. If they want to have fun, let them. People are allowed to have fun with games you don't like.

If you're enjoying the game then why do you feel the need to defend it? Why would dissenting opinions even bother you? An appeal to popularity is a fallacious argument that is not going to convince any detractors.

Consumers lowering their willingly standards is such a shame especially in the game industry where companies are so adept at wearing away the buyer's resistance and creating new increasingly egregious standards of acceptability.

We consumers do share some of the blame, companies are in the business of making money after all. There is no onus to improve the game if its going to make money anyway.

You know, having fun with the game loses its purpose if you blow it up by having the opposite of fun arguing on the internet about it and getting heated over it. The amount of anger you get doing this cancels out the amount of fun playing the game, and trust me, the latter will not last you forever, what with how short the game is, whereas you could be talking to a wall for as long as you choose to.

Meanwhile, everyone else may not be having fun with the game, but at least they accepted how things are and are ready to move on, like with any other media franchise that fell out of grace in the past. This is neither the first nor the last time we have to do this. Can you say the same..? Will the amount of fun you are having with this game truly make up for everything else negative you chose to engage with regarding the entire situation..? And most importantly, make up for what is yet to come with the next Pokemon game next year, when this controversy inevitably repeats itself..? Because if you ask me, this is a very bad long-term investment you are doing.

Nedhitis wrote:

You know, having fun with the game loses its purpose if you blow it up by having the opposite of fun arguing on the internet about it and getting heated over it. The amount of anger you get doing this cancels out the amount of fun playing the game, and trust me, the latter will not last you forever, what with how short the game is, whereas you could be talking to a wall for as long as you choose to.

Meanwhile, everyone else may not be having fun with the game, but at least they accepted how things are and are ready to move on, like with any other media franchise that fell out of grace in the past. This is neither the first nor the last time we have to do this. Can you say the same..? Will the amount of fun you are having with this game truly make up for everything else negative you chose to engage with regarding the entire situation..? And most importantly, make up for what is yet to come with the next Pokemon game next year, when this controversy inevitably repeats itself..? Because if you ask me, this is a very bad long-term investment you are doing.