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Hey smol memers

As part of our bimonthly "how do we improve KYM?" mod discussion recently the mods have decided that one of the major problems facing the team is a blatant lack of ideological diversity. Rivers recently became a commie which cost us our last libertarian and I don't think we've had a traditional conservative ever.

Please help us identify sane right-wingers to turn into moderators. They must be mature and intelligent and at least reasonably active. We are willing to mod libertarians. We are willing to mod nationalists. We are, for the purposes of ideological diversity, even willing to mod those gamergater types provided that they are able to hide their power level when acting in official mod capacity.

Don has approved this plan and said that we are permitted to use affirmative action, which means we will be less anal about candidates' media/entry contributions to the site.

P.S. this thread is unironic so don't move it to Riff Raff. I'm looking at you, TripleZ.

Sign me the fuck up, 'ey.

Requesting to move this thread to Riff-Raff

Conservatives are against affirmative action, so tough luck :^)

Why does a mod's ideology even matter? Don't you all have to follow the same rules regardless?

Also, does that mean that ever mod is a commie now?

I guess the idea was we crack down too hard on conservatives but let liberals go more than we should, so we need someone to combat the bias? It's mostly just Mare behind this so you'd have to ask her.

I'll toss my name in the hat.

Mod PatrickBateman96 pls

>sane right-wingers

lul

I'll still be anal about their contributions.

Lowering the bar for anyone just for the sake of having a right wing mod is insanely stupid. If a right winger happens to be strong mod material, go right ahead, but modding one for the sake of modding one is a dumb idea.

I mean, you can argue that right wingers get warned more but frankly, that's just because there are more right wingers on the site. Like, we have some toxic lefties, and in my experience they DO get warned, but the reason right wingers seem to get warned more is because there are just more of them. We aren't exactly known for being lefty friendly here let's be honest.

Hey kid, I see you thinking: "Man being a memesite moderator would add so much meaning to my life!" But let's think straight for a moment:

- There is a vague claim of Don support, but knowing Don this support is most likely something along the lines of "as long as the candidate has you guys' support". Besides Mare, you're getting no mod support unless you match the regular mod requirements. You're not gonna get modded thanks to this in a longshot.

- In the alternate universe that you made mod thanks to this idea: You will forever be known as the nerd who only made mod thanks to his political stance. As such, no mod or user alike will ever be able to take you serious as a mod. You might as well not be a mod.

Give up and give this awful idea the unhonorable death it deserves.

How right winged do you want them to be? Traditional conservative or full alt right?

dont you have better things to do?

Preferably, like, Jimmy Carter conservative.

…so not very conservative.

…in fact, not at all conservative.

…let's just hire Hillary. Not like she's busy.

What exactly is a "traditional conservative"?

A basic moderate American Republican similar to the majority of US Congressmen.

Still can't tell if this is a joke or not.

Moved to Suggest Ideas. I think she's serious about the idea.

@RM

The admins have already recognized that the mod team is packed with bias. Now that the site is moving in an increasingly political direction every day it's no longer possible to pretend that this isn't a problem.

go check the screencaps in kymmods. Don literally uses the term "affirmative action" in regards to this. What that exactly means is up for interpretation but I think at minimum it should mean prioritizing ideological diversity for the next mod wave even if the standards don't change.

Plus, I don't think getting modded for ideology is any more embarrassing than getting modded for, say, kissing ass and posting in the image cleaning thread obsessively. We're all memesite janitors in the end so it's not a big deal.

@Twenty-One

I think a lot of mods would agree with you that KYM's community is overtly right-wing and I think that's a symptom of the team's biases. We need more people who don't agree with the long running "comments are right wing cancer" narrative and who have the capacity to eloquently present a differing point of view.

"Rivers recently became a commie which cost us our last libertarian and I don’t think we’ve had a traditional conservative ever."

Either you're talking about Rivers uploading a fuckton of Trans Marco images recently, or you just pulled that shit out of Discord.

Yeah, she's been telling us. Also check the unpopular opinions thread for her hot take on communism. She's a red now!

While I do agree that there may be some biases among the mod team, I don't believe it would be correct to grant someone a mod position based on ideology alone. All Moderators must abide the same rules regardless of ideology, and if you feel that some of your peers are allowing personal feelings to affect their judgement then perhaps you have that discussion in private.

I'm actually for mods being demodded for having any political slant or bias. Mostly because there has actually been a history on the site of users getting warned, suspended, or banned for being right leaning (by certain mods whom will not be named).

But admins have mentioned that this is completely unreasonable (which is why I should be in charge). And so because it can't be that way, I'm all for balancing out the equation if they meet the proper criteria for being mods (but let's be real, some of the left-leaning mods barely do that).

first issue our new right wing mod will have to deal with is stopping mod rivers and her trans marco takeover of kym as the only way to fight a mod is with another mod.

who is up to that task?

The admins have already recognized that the mod team is packed with bias. Now that the site is moving in an increasingly political direction every day it’s no longer possible to pretend that this isn’t a problem.

Even in a supposedly bias-packed mod team, thus far we always tried (not saying we always succeeded) to make certain to not let our own political stance influence our site and mod decisions. This became an especially hot item during the Gamergate months, which we kept around despite not all of us being a big fan of the event; this was apparently a big plus on our side compared to how subreddits and other sites were handling it.

Claims of left-leaning users getting away with stuff we warned right-wing users over needs to bring up some examples, because despite all the claims so far it's still just that: claims. I'll need to see them side by side to say if User A didn't deserve the punishment or User B did as well. 90% of my warnings were based on users reporting others and so I can't say who I missed in that process, although I can confirm I showed people the door when they asked me to remove right-wing propaganda.

If someone starts deadpooling Trump entries for being Trump entries you have an issue to fix, but if they just say they're not a fan of the guy honestly who gives a shit?

What that exactly means is up for interpretation but I think at minimum it should mean prioritizing ideological diversity for the next mod wave even if the standards don’t change.
Plus, I don’t think getting modded for ideology is any more embarrassing than getting modded for, say, kissing ass and posting in the image cleaning thread obsessively. We’re all memesite janitors in the end so it’s not a big deal.

Looking in a specific direction to fill up holes the current active mod team is lacking is no biggy, and something we did in the past. I just wish to make absolutely certain they also meet the regular mod criteria but it seems you as well already agreed to that part.

I think a lot of mods would agree with you that KYM’s community is overtly right-wing and I think that’s a symptom of the team’s biases. We need more people who don’t agree with the long running “comments are right wing cancer” narrative and who have the capacity to eloquently present a differing point of view.

In your currently elsewhere brought up idea of Comment Mods, this is likewise a reason to not aim at a specific political stance.

Should you specifically mod a conservative guy in your situation, you'll end up with a team of nerds who wish to steer away from the comment section and one guy with a specific political stance who doesn't. Honestly if your criteria becomes "someone who is capable of normal discussion and doesn't have a superiority complex over the comment section", I think you're still good to go on comment section moderating.

I exist.

A mod team that is an echo chamber and only agrees with itself gets little done. That said, a mod team that regularly disagrees with itself probably does more harm than good, and creates work for people to mop up later. The issue is not that the mod team lacks someone who regularly disagrees with other mods; the issue is that nobody on the mod team can handle disagreements without acting like a toddler.

Completely inaccurate.

Your statement brings nothing to the table, answers nothing, and connects itself to its latter point in no way while acting as it was one unified point.

Basically, this is not the thread for your grievances, the mods are discussing.

Edit: @Peacock Roy's deleted post

But the real question is “Can they?”. In my experience, they can not.

There have been those who could not, and even worse, there were those who did nothing about it. A mod that can not control themselves is no good, a mod team that can not keep itself in control is more so.

If avoidance is the only way to keep the slate clean, then I say we start the culling. Mods would be much more efficient if they did.

Also, no one is saying I’m more right. I’m merely saying that I have a better solution. That doesn’t make me “more right”, just more absolute. Step out of your dichotomous world for a second and see the third dimension for a while, it’ll do you wonders.

Even in a supposedly bias-packed mod team, thus far we always tried (not saying we always succeeded) to make certain to not let our own political stance influence our site and mod decisions. This became an especially hot item during the Gamergate months, which we kept around despite not all of us being a big fan of the event; this was apparently a big plus on our side compared to how subreddits and other sites were handling it.

if you go through kymmods server history, all of the "dumb comments" that get posted for everyone to circlejerk over are almost always right leaning. The posting mod usually doesn't intend for the commentator to get warned, but the different degrees to which we scrutinize comments of different ideologies does inevitably color which users and comments we target.

There are lots of examples of notorious right wingers getting banned, the most recent examples being hrom and trite. While I'm not saying they didn't deserve it, I can not think of any left wing equivalent. If you want to claim that there is such an equivalent then I think the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate it.

our handling of GG, while it wasn't bad, wasn't what I would call admirable either. From good friggin comment to the occasional IRC raid, mods did a lot to antagonize gamergaters. And I don't buy for a second that our reluctance to go further was entirely of our own volition; the way I remember it, a big part of what kept us in check was the fear that we would piss off the admins if we went too far.

#combatnife1337ForSupremeMod2017

Edit: Being as your comment is rescinded, I shall rescind mine.

This seems like a bad idea, forced ideological equilibrium via hiring guy from the other side seems like it will just lead to mod arguments over whether or not a suspension is justified. It would be better to try and find people who are politically neutral, or who have demonstrated the ability to put their bias aside.

As opposed to no arguments over whether a suspension is justified? Would you be in favor of suspensions having no discussions then? This point seems counterproductive.

As for political neutrality and being able to put biases aside? We have those already, I'm right here. I've even called out questionable calls by left leaning mods in the past. Being as they're still on the mod team, we can conclude that that doesn't solve anything.

edit: ninjad by bob

^ good in concept, but that rests on the current mods being less biased. I can think of multiple mods whom I believe have been left-biased in their issuance of warnings. (I won't name them here in the interest of not inflamming this thread any further.)

Therefore, maybe mod arguments are necessary. Better than keeping an extant political bias.

If these mods I'm thinking of, and I'm sure you know who you are, would make a concerted effort to also pay attention to left-wingers causing problems, then none of this would be necessary.

>As opposed to no arguments over whether a suspension is justified? Would you be in favor of suspensions having no discussions then? This point seems counterproductive.

There's a difference between discussion and arguments. A discussion would be a civilized discussion over whether the accused broke a rule. An argument would be a hissy fit because the new Right Wing Mod doesn't agree with a ban because he agrees with the accused ideologically.

>I’ve even called out questionable calls by left leaning mods in the past. Being as they’re still on the mod team, we can conclude that that doesn’t solve anything.

Asking for a solution and not having it done does not discount the solution itself.

I will give 100 internet points to anyone who emails Hillary Clinton and asks if she wants to be a KYM mod.

We will even double the standard mod salary as a sweetener.

@ Affirmative Action

I wonder if this is the best way to frame things. Like, there's quite a few of active conservatives on this site. Are you saying that none of them are both reasonable people and also active contributors? Because just from a numbers perspective, statistically, I find that hard to believe.

Like, can we seriously think of no one? Really? Just one would do.

@ Arguments

Debates among the mods are good. Honestly, I would worry a bit if we agreed all the time. So long as all parties keep things reasonable, having the occasional tiff over a suspension is hardly a problem.

Yeah, RM and I have agreed that standards should not be significantly altered. we should instead make an effort to seek out conservatives who meet the current standard.

I have a couple in mind and other mods have also made suggestions, but that is probably a discussion better reserved for the mod forum since I don't think anyone wants to be forced to throw shade on a user in public.

If you want to claim that there is such an equivalent then I think the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate it.

People claim left-wing users got away with stuff right-wingers didn't, I say "alright show me examples". It's fair to say the burden of proof isn't on me here; an absence of examples only supports that it isn't happening and makes it merely claims.

So you're basically implying that KYM's right wingers are worse behaved than its left wingers?

Not saying I disagree, just want to make it clear what your beliefs about this are.

I'm not as involved in the punishment decisions as I used to in the past. At times I straight up have no idea who we just banned or suspended, let alone who we didn't. An apparent higher amount of right-wing punishment could equally be bias (what you claim) as it could simply be that we just happen to have a higher amount of right-wing posters compared to left-wing posters (what 21 claims). But bias is a hard claim to make without supporting evidence, which is what I'm requesting.

Firstly, I would like to invite 21 to provide evidence for his claim.

Secondly, I think measuring bias strictly through warnings is insufficient. There are passive factors to bias that are harder to measure but also significant. A mod team that is perceived by its userbase as politically antagonistic is not going to be willing to work with any mods; this is one of the reasons why GamerGate effectively functioned as a parallel community, with its own culture distinct from the rest of KYM, during 2014 and 2015. The impression of antagonism is what a right-wing user is going to get when they open any political entry and constantly see the mods taking snarky left wing positions. (The Trans Marco entry is an example of this.) There are multiple solutions to this problem: make mod tags optional, as I proposed; ban mods from being political, as Bob proposed; or introduce active right wing mods. I would personally be in favor of a combination of optional tags and conservative mods.

So basically, the mods' interactions with the community at the moment don't just come down to warnings and suspensions. Comments and opinions count as well, and should not be neglected. This is doubly important given the fact that the site currently forces all of our comments and forum posts to look like they're official moderator declarations.

As for evidence of biased warnings and suspensions, though, some people on Discord gave an example earlier. I'll post it in the council.

Only if I get stupid meaningless title(other than moderator) like memeboi

Just establish 9 moderators posts. Let the community at large vote. Establish rules for a revoking process for objectively bad mods. Feel the democracy.

A mod team that is perceived by its userbase as politically antagonistic is not going to be willing to work with any mods.

But is the mod team really perceived by the userbase as politically antagonistic that badly? Memory recalls the most common complaints we get were either about NSFW and gallery locks…

…or Bob.

Of course with a more politically loaded KYM as before, the future of this is up for debate.

this is one of the reasons why GamerGate effectively functioned as a parallel community, with its own culture distinct from the rest of KYM, during 2014 and 2015.

Brones, Undertale and Pokemon RP are also instances which functioned as a seperate community within the site. GamerGate just happened to be the one with a bit more political load in it. People are attracted to others with a shared interest, be it either a fandom about animals or video game journalism. To see them stick with each other is no suprise with the size they grew into; makes it easier to become a seperate sub-community.

So basically, the mods’ interactions with the community at the moment don’t just come down to warnings and suspensions. Comments and opinions count as well, and should not be neglected. This is doubly important given the fact that the site currently forces all of our comments and forum posts to look like they’re official moderator declarations.

I'll have you know I shitpost unconditionally.

I am right-leaning, and I will listen to the users and keep KYM safe and balanced.

@RM

Let me rephrase; a select few mods, most noticeably platus and kole, are perceived by some politically active users as actively biased against them. I've seen rumblings about this in a few past entry comments sections that I can't find now, but it's there. Since no one else in the mod team really engages anymore, the actions of a few mods get generalized onto all of us. And maybe not unfairly, either – when mods do give their opinion, such as in kymmods, it's almost always in agreement with the mods who argue with users.

But is the mod team really perceived by the userbase as politically antagonistic that badly? Memory recalls the most common complaints we get were either about NSFW and gallery locks…

…or Bob.

In my defense…

Just because people are too stupid to be living as long as they have does not mean that they should be treated unfairly. I mean, we keep toddlers around, and they're pretty much the same thing.

HolyCrapItsBob said:

I mean, we keep toddlers around

Wait, Rivers went red? Hrom and Trite are banned? How did I miss any of this?

I certainly exist and am willing. On the other hand, while I get the need for political balance, something about this seems… off.

Because someone needs to watch the toddlers. Though I do forget who was put in charge of you. Whoever they are, they're doing a terrible job of keeping children like you in line.

Stay on topic or be suspended, your choice.