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Evilthing said:

I wonder if a trademark loss can really lead a company that big to bankruptcy?

Considering that Hasbro lost every pony trademark from Gen 1 and 2 except for Spike and Applejack, it's doubtful. And then there's the fact they've already lost Fluttershy's trademark (7:40).

Shouldn’t consumers dictate which trademarks are worthless and which are not instead of companies?

In a way, they do.

Deadparrot222 said:

If someone unaware of the fanbase came across Button’s Adventures on Youtube, I don’t think they could be blamed for thinking it might have been Hasbro-made/-approved because the quality and style were quite consistent with official products.

I think they could.
1) It's not on a Hasbro channel.
2) There's a disclaimer at the start of every video specifically saying it's fanmade.
3) The video descriptions make it obvious it's not official.
4) To the best of my knowledge, there aren't any commercials on the videos.

While I can't be certain, I'm pretty sure you cannot trademark or copyright a style of animation, making the whole "you can't use FiM's style" BS. If they could, Disney would have locked things down decades ago.

I know a lot of studios imitate each other's art style, especially when it comes to animé.

So…if someone gets enough people together to state that a trademark is worthless, then it is?

@TSG

I think they could.

You think they could, but the real question is does Hasbro think they could?

We can have a big argument in this thread about the legal legitimacy and necessity of the C&D until every last one of us agrees unanimously that there is not a single conceivable reason for the C&D whatsoever and can quote national law to back it up.

But it would all be moot because no matter what we agree on, it comes down to what Hasbro thinks. Either Hasbro was justified or tyrannical. Fact of the matter is; they have the team of lawyers and they'll act on whatever they think, regardless if their legal understanding of the situation is misinformed and misunderstood

We know that the chance of the Buttonmash videos causing any threat to Hasbro is less than 0.01% but that still could be a chance Hasbro isn't willing to take. I expect them to be far more irrationally paranoid of irate soccer moms than you or I.

Hell for all we know, an irate soccer mom has already complained to Hasbro about Jan and that lead them to this

You could literally write an essay filled with perfect reasoning on why the C&D was completely unnecessary and forward that to hasbro but I don't think they'd give a shit. They only care about their bottom line (And don't give your essay to me either! I don't want to hear it!)

^So what can we do? There has to be something…

This has got me miserable again…

Ironic thing is that there are numerous ways to legitimately damage Hasbro without them being able to do anything against me. For an example, If there were an ultraviolent game franchise called "Pony Killer: I Kill Little Foals for My Amusement", then any videos should show up constantly when someone tries to search for ponies.

Why does everyone use Hasbro as a single entity? It's obviously their legal team that's fucking shit up. And that's mostly due to stupid laws, but I don't want any political debates, so I'm leaving off on that.

Also, I really liked yesterday's episode, very fun!

Well, we could go full Somalia and just forget about any and all government.

Blue Screen said:

You think they could, but the real question is does Hasbro think they could?

Technically, the real question would be whether a federal judge thinks they could, as that particular issue (likelihood of confusion) could only be determined by a judge.

And don’t give your essay to me either!

Well, I did write a copyright essay for college on how copyrights are destroying creativity and that those in Congress who wish to "reform" the copyright system are in National Amusements' (owner of Viacom and CBS) back pocket.

It's time for the first run-off of the Pony Thread Title Straw Poll, which is totally non-binding and definitely won't be used as a final result for the election.
>Maximum of three votes allowed
>If no title holds a 50.1% majority, the top five move on to the next (and hopefully last) round of run-offs
>Voting booths close on Page 180

2014 Pony Thread Title Straw Poll, Round One Run-offs.
Sponsored by the Ponies for Prosperity SuperPAC, a non-profit organization.

^Okay, I voted there.

Well, despite my mood about the C&D, I brought myself to watch an episode on the drive down just now.

Also, if anyone still wants to talk ships, how about Vinylfire?

Also also, I'm going to a Freemason dinner in a couple weeks, I read the invitation shown to me by my Grandparents (They invited me, I'm too young to join myself and never really thought of anything like this before) and the theme is "Diamonds and Tiaras"… All I could think of was

I've really got ponies on the brain…

You know what that after party scene reminded me of? My opinion of Avatar.

Friend: What was your favorite part of the movie?
Me: Umm…..The CGI was pretty good and the 3D was damn good.
Friend: You at least liked some of the dialogue right?
Me: Oh yeah, sure.
Friend: What line?
Me: Umm….I don't know exactly which line but there was a cool 3D effect when he said it!

@Deadparrot's Scootareligion: Sign me the fuck up!

Crash was all like:

Also, if anyone still wants to talk ships, how about Vinylfire?

>ensuing picture

Actually this letter should be written in public at least.
The main problem is that those who receive C&D letters will try to "act civil" and all they do is encourage companies to continue their practices. Such things do not calm the audience down.

I wonder if Hasbro would be helpless if the main fansites would replace their content with parody pornography of the show.

Remember how Star Trek copyright holders were forced to stop shutting down fansites as it eventually had a serious negative impact on their image?

@Evil

I wonder if Hasbro would be helpless if the main fansites would replace their content with parody pornography of the show.

That would certainly put Hasbro on the spot, but something tells me there would be no winners in that outcome.

@Crash

Also, if anyone still wants to talk ships, how about Vinylfire?

I prefer my Spitfire with a Side of Soarin and a Dash of Dash

Actually, at least part of this isn't down to hasbro at all. Hasbro more or less don't care about episodes uploaded to Youtube- the show is essentially advertising for the toyline, remember? But when Hasbro actually gets round to distributing the show, the distributors DO care about episodes of MLP being available elsewhere- since it cuts into THEIR profits. IIRC, Hasbro said somewhere that the cable networks more or less forced them to start taking down MLP episodes from Youtube- and the Button Mash vids, ultimately, were pretty close to actual episodes. I'm guessing that one of the cable networks thought the Button mash vids were a threat, and told Hasbro to get the vids removed. It explains why they were only removed now- the cable networks don't generally care about being fair to fans of shows.

^I see… Hopefully we can manage to triumph in the end or something.

I come to the thread hoping for discussion of this awesome episode and all I get is a C&D debate thread.
It's been almost a year since the Fighting is Magic C&D hasn't it? I guess we were overdue for a C&D shitstorm.

It's important for the targeted artist to fight for their right to post the work. But that's just it, it's up to the artist and the artist alone to handle his/her own matters. Complaining on a forum isn't going to do jack shit. If you do want to get involved, you could try contacting Hasbro itself, but with your lack of knowledge on the situation and of copyright laws I doubt they would listen to you at all. Evilthing, you're right in that it's important to be aggressive and persistent so that you can at least try to ensure other artists won't be targeted but you also have to keep in mind that you are trying to work with the company giving the C&D. If you're just a dickhead crybaby they're not going to work with you, period. You'd have a much better chance if you were civil about it. And once again, it is not our responsibility to fight Jan's battles.

In other news, I just got back from Anime Boston last night. I mention this because there was a pretty awesome Cheese Sandwich cosplayer there on Friday and Saturday. He had Boneless with him, an accordion, and a big cheese hat and he got really excited when my group recognized him. I sadly didn't get a picture (I think one of my friends did and I can steal it from her) but I just wanted to bring it up.

Heard you been talking C&D again. I see a lot of people springing to Jan's defense saying he's protected as a parody, so I just wanted to chime in on what I know about Jan and the situation.

First off, Jan is one of the only pony animators I can think of trying to make a living off their videos. Basically, he's made animating ponies into his job. He's not in any sort of gray area when it comes to monetization; ads, paid commissions, you name it. That's not unusual for pony animators, but what is unusual is how he goes about it. To quote Fifths, he's "a cock." At Super Smash Ponies (which is still going), we've had a bit of a dearth of animating talent and so reached out to Jan (or maybe he reached out to us; I admit to being a little fuzzy on the exact details) and asked him to do Rainbow Dash for us. Jan agreed, but only if we paid him something in the range of three and a half grand. Three and a half grand for sixty-ish separate second-long puppet animations with no backgrounds or anything of the sort; they're each literally twenty frames of Rainbow Dash headbutting or jumping or flying or what have you. The SSP team obviously doesn't have that kind of money, as we all fit the broke college/high school student stereotype pretty well, but even if we did we'd be treading thin ice to start shelling out cash like that. Not to mention that every other member besides Jan would still be working for free.

Thirty-five hundred dollars is a lot of money for some Internet animations. I get it: as far as I can tell Jan has no other source of income, but he's still asking for a huge amount of money to animate someone else's property.

Another issue is how he sold Button Mash: he himself described it as a "spin-off" at one point or another, which is not a good way to label your series if you're trying to stay on Hasbro's good side. On top of that, apart from the characters, he imitates the show in almost every single respect: animation, background styles, humor. In most cases you could argue that imitation is a necessary part of parody, but with Button Mash he imitates the show for no reason other than that it's the gold standard to which all animation is held in this fandom. People think you're better and funnier the closer you are to the show, and Jan was pretty damn close. He admitted himself in a voice recording a few days ago that the whole reason he did any of this was his hope that he could work for DHX on the show at some point, which I think blows his parody argument out of the water. He wasn't mimicking the show to parody it, he was mimicking it because he wanted to make a series that actually looked like an official spin-off.

If this post gave you the vibe that I don't have a very high opinion of Jan you'd be right.

So I'm guessing Jan is not as nice as most people make him out to be? Is this another Parappa-voice situation again?

Also, I'm I the only one who keeps mistaking him for a girl? The name throws me off sometimes.

Also, there should be more Luna episodes. Her dream-hopping episodes are quite fun to see, and I'm pretty sure Applebloom is the only one of the CMC that hasn't gotten some dream guidance from her. Luna's like a reverse-Freddy Kruger, and I like that concept. Also, dolphins. Dolphins are legit animals, even if they are somewhat lewd.

Is this another Parappa-voice situation again?

I'm sorry, what is this referring to? I don't think I know this.

Ahh someone said what I wanted to say but haven't really had the time to say because in the past couple days all I've been able to do was D'AWWWWWWWWW from the 5 Year old Ponies (Holy shit they're so adorable!)

Jan was marketing Button Mash as a "Spin-off" if it were labeled as "Parody" then we could all rage at Hasbro for taking it down since Parodies are a-okay thanks to Fair Use. But when you're trying to claim that your animations are "Spin-offs" of the actual show, that's when you're getting into the "You really shouldn't have done this man, we warned you not to do this!" territory.

And that's all I really want to talk about Jan getting C&D'd. I still have little to no interest towards 99.99% of MLP Fanimations so seeing Jan go down isn't that big of a deal to me (OMG shocker!)

@Crash: Some people asked Parappa's VA to help them out with a small project, but after everything was done he asked them to pay a huge sum of cash for the voice clips, and then a bunch of stuff happened on facebook with the VA calling the project creators names and harassing them a bit.

I'm sure Jan hasn't done that last bit, but the situation reminded me of that.

Ah, I can see the similarity, thank you for explaining!

And if I might state my opinion, while these clarifications about his behavior certainly make this more understandable and I can see why Exudes and Kewln00b feel this way I still feel the exact same way I did before and if there is any way to kill this C&D I will rally behind it in a heartbeat.
It basically comes down to these nice videos that people liked and wanted to see being destroyed, and the possibility of their continuation being annihilated. Mostly thinking of Button's Adventures like most people, a lot of people liked this and wanted to see more and now they won't. Hell, I'd even include myself, as my trying it was essentially predicated on it going past the "Pilot", even if I don't treat that as a prerequisite and watch one of the backups there remains the far more important part of wanting to see more and it never happening.
I will say though, I don't really feel the same soul-crushing misery over this for the most part though I suppose that could be chalked up to any number of things (just getting over it, thinking about other things, the stuff said above, the possibility of this being fixed mentioned somewhere else, etc. I don't really know what would be the "key ingredient" here),

After all this, I feel the need to lighten the mood with a few silly pictures, please excuse me.

I like the way ya think, Crashy.

Crashgordon94 said:

Second, the whole “no magic” thing REALLY bothers me, they explained why they do it (side-note: before I went in I already knew about and was bothered by this, but didn’t know the reason why) but it’s clearly highly counterproductive, some traditions need to die at some point, y’know?

>tfw no one has written a fanfic where Twilight sues Ponyville for discrimination/speciesism

And I really felt for Spike too…

You better stop those feels right now because Spike's life will be filled with nothing but slapstick injuries, being forgotten by those closest to him, and Rarity stringing him along while having no intention of having a relationship with him because he lacks the gold she wishes to dig. Abandon hope all ye who enter the realm of liking Spike.

Also also, I’m going to a Freemason dinner in a couple weeks…

Crashgordon confirmed for being a member of the Illuminati conspiracy. How'd that Bilderberg meeting go?

Kewln00bs name isn't special said:

My opinion of Avatar.

Ugh, Avatar.
>multi-trillion dollar corporation
>once things go south, doesn't use orbital ships to nuke the naked blue smurfs/use tungsten inertia rods if nukes fuck everything up
>fights land war instead

My brother's argument was literally "muh shareholders," as if they wouldn't give a shit over a costly land war that kills thousands but would care about a quick, efficient, and cost-effective orbital attack. Either way the natives die, the only difference is the second option actually makes sense and you can't have things making sense in a Hollywood movie these days.

Crimson Locks said:

…and all I get is a C&D debate thread.

You can't expect us to pass up on a shitstorm, can you?

And once again, it is not our responsibility to fight Jan’s battles.

First, they C&D'd the games, and I didn't do anything because I didn't like the fighting genre
Then, they C&D'd the porn, and I didn't do anything because "muh children!"
Then, they C&D'd the Youtube Poops, and I didn't do anything because LOLSORANDUMB XD humor is disgusting
Then, they C&D'd the Youtube animations, and I didn't do anything because it's not my responisbilty
Then, they C&D'd the fanfics, and I didn't do anything because fanfics are shit
Then, they C&D'd the Pony Thread, and there was no one left to bitch about horrid copyright/trademark laws

I couldn't resist.

ExudesAffluence said:

He wasn’t mimicking the show to parody it, he was mimicking it because he wanted to make a series that actually looked like an official spin-off.

People seem to forget that something doesn't have to parody something to fall under fair use. The two factors judges place greatest weight on are transformative value and the impact it has on the copyright/trademark holder.

You could argue how trasformative Button Mash is. One the one hand, it follows a completely new character (from a personality standpoint), fleshing out both him and his mom. On the other, both the style and the "plot" are very similar to that of the show.

Given the fact that Button was a background pony without a name and the fact there are hundreds of other animations, it's already proven the impact it has is negligible.

Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music, Inc. illustrates the money argument perfectly: just because something makes money, doesn't disqualify it from fair use. That includes commissions, art trades, etc.

the impact analysis is different, actually: what it actually means is is the product in competition with the legitimate product. Ultimately, in the analysis of a trademark court, one is a cartoon based on talking ponies. one is a cartoon based on talking ponies.

It's also why figurine/plushie makers occasionally get C&Ds: they are in competition with the official figs.(note that I don't necessarily agree with them getting C&Ds, but am explaining the legal basis.

fanfics are different: that is a whole different media type.

xTSGx wrote:

People seem to forget that something doesn’t have to parody something to fall under fair use. The two factors judges place greatest weight on are transformative value and the impact it has on the copyright/trademark holder.

You could argue how trasformative Button Mash is. One the one hand, it follows a completely new character (from a personality standpoint), fleshing out both him and his mom. On the other, both the style and the “plot” are very similar to that of the show.

Given the fact that Button was a background pony without a name and the fact there are hundreds of other animations, it’s already proven the impact it has is negligible.

Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music, Inc. illustrates the money argument perfectly: just because something makes money, doesn’t disqualify it from fair use. That includes commissions, art trades, etc.

The point I was trying to make is that Button Mash is not transformative to any great degree. It intentionally follows the show in so many respects because Jan wanted to make something that would be considered as good, not to parody it. Yes, there are some elements of parody in the videos, but those are isolated gags and not any sort of running theme. He copies the show simply because it's a high standard, which is not unreasonable, but he doesn't deviate from it in any significant way. Focusing on a different character doesn't get him much slack as, at least design-wise, Button Mash isn't an original character and canon show characters, such as Sweetie Belle, still appear. It really doesn't get much closer to copying the show than Button Mash did, and I think if Hasbro let Jan keep it up as a parody they'd be hard pressed to find anything that fits that standard of imitation. That's not entirely a bad thing as, contrary to popular belief in this fandom, they don't lose rights to a trademark just because they don't defend it. It's just that Hasbro clearly concerned about people coming close to copying and profiting off their IP.

As for the money, monetization isn't bad in itself. There are plenty of pony animators out there who put ads on their videos or take paid commissions. Some of them have run into problems with YouTube (eg Rainbow Dash Presents) but very few are harassed by Hasbro. With the SSP example I was simply showing his business practices aren't exactly kosher.

That said, people can argue all they want about whether Hasbro had the right to take his videos down but, in the end, it will be near impossible for Jan or anyone else to prove that they didn't. He's at least said he's rewriting leftover Button Mash scripts for original characters that I believe won't be ponies, so it's not like everything is lost.

I'm pretty sue that poster is a year old . . .

yes but still funny

Are you sue about that

im sorry i had to post ponies

pls i need help and gf

Ya know, I sometimes wish i had a tiny Pinkie jumping on my head. I don't know why, but it'd very adorable. Very adorable.

Goddamn Kentuckians will fight over anything. But this…

This is worthy of popcorn.

Remember, laws are the tool of taking down things, not the reason and it's disgusting how one person can nullify or even reverse someone's work in 10 minutes that took several people weeks or even months to make. Although how many people were responsible for sending that C&D letter though?

twerlit sprkl is gf tho bruh

You guise that's the sexiest face I have ever seen.

Twilight is everyone's GF.

Except Mordecai's. They don't click for some reason.

Adorable, yes.
But good luck getting anything done…

Hey, remember how Build-A-Bear Rarity, Sweetie Belle, and Scootaloo are launching in a couple weeks?
Well, nope!
Apparently they got bored of waiting:

Tomorrow!
Tomorrow!
It's only a day away!

Looks like they'll be available in stores and ONLINE!
Yay!

@Winter Wrap-Up
I think Crash's expectations for vs. his experience of Winter Wrap-Up make a good bit of sense.
It is definitely not the best song in the show… now.
But back when that episode first aired?
It was the eleventh episode yet it was only the second actual song (with the first being 'Giggle at the Ghosties' in episode 2) and it was the first real musical number involving all of the main cast.
It was simple and catchy and basically became the fandom's theme song for quite a while.
Tons of great memories rolled into that little tune!

Appropriate HappyTwi:

Yeah, Crash should've expected the whole Winter Wrap Up incident when he heard everyone jizzing over some of the newer songs…..Like Smile, This Day Aria, or hell even At The Gala at the end of Season 1.

Fun-Fact, when I first heard Winter Wrap Up I actually thought it dragged on for quite a bit and when it came to Twilight's Solo I used to be like "Holy shit, this thing is STILL going on. When the fuck is it going to-Another Chorus, great." but now I'm like "Shit, it's almost over."

@Deadparrot:
I'll take 20, please. Shit, can I really buy one of those in good conscience when I just dropped a ton of money on merch at AB? (Moment to ponder) Yes, yes I can.
I really do wish Build-a-Bear didn't insist on doing the brushable manes thing. I feel like if they just did the plush manes like most of the fan-made plush makers do then the manes could be pulled off much better. Not to mention the less high maintenance the plush the better.

@Winter-Wrap-Up:
I am one of the people that really loved the song from the get-go. I didn't really know FiM had musical numbers going into it, so being the lover of musicals that I am I was very pleasantly surprised to see an actual musical number that didn't just come out of Pinkie's head. It's still one of my favorites, even with the awesome musical numbers we've had since. It's simplicity is very endearing to me

Well guys this is it. All episodes except for the possible 2 part finale (Don't think we've gotten confirmation if it's a two part or not) have been revealed and now we're on the home stretch of the season as this Saturday we'll be on episode 20. I think I speak for everyone when I say: Welp, time to find a cryogenic freezer. Here, have a frozen pony

No not THAT kind of Frozen

That's better……Actually, I quite liked Frozen. Here have another Frozen Pony.

Oh hey look, they finally mentioned that Molestia disappeared. I smell a three year long plot line coming!

Oh hey look, they finally mentioned that Molestia disappeared. I smell a three year long plot line coming!

I really do hope John goes through with that. See, if it was Pinkie Pie that kidnapped Molly, that would probably be the greatest thing in the history of the internet's existence.

Visual representation of Buttongate:

Okay, now worrying about something else C&D related…. What if they get Mixermike next? I mean, he's very popular, uses show-style animation and has featured canon characters in his videos…
In any case, I'll lighten the mood with some silly gifs again.

TSG Said:

>tfw no one has written a fanfic where Twilight sues Ponyville for discrimination/speciesism

Are you sure nobody has? Quite a lot of stories around and all, even an avid fan-ficcer could miss one.
Though I expect you're probably right, in which case that could be fun from a dark comedy/parody perspective definitely.

You better stop those feels right now because Spike’s life will be filled with nothing but slapstick injuries, being forgotten by those closest to him, and Rarity stringing him along while having no intention of having a relationship with him because he lacks the gold she wishes to dig. Abandon hope all ye who enter the realm of liking Spike.

Well, it was mostly just the "being made to get up earlier than you really want to" thing, I can definitely relate to that.
As far as Spike's other problems… I'll get back to that after more episodes.

Crashgordon confirmed for being a member of the Illuminati conspiracy. How’d that Bilderberg meeting go?

Pretty good, our electronic old men and their… flexibility has allowed us to make progress in the mythical city on the hills!
(Seriously though, I'm kinda looking forward to seeing the contrast between the myth and the reality, I can imagine it's gonna be quite a funny comparison. Also, I had to look up Bilderberg meetings, sounds like exactly what you'd do if you wanted to screw around with conspiracy theorists… Like seriously, almost too perfectly tailored for that stuff!)

Ugh, Avatar.
>multi-trillion dollar corporation
>once things go south, doesn’t use orbital ships to nuke the naked blue smurfs/use tungsten inertia rods if nukes fuck everything up
>fights land war instead
My brother’s argument was literally “muh shareholders,” as if they wouldn’t give a shit over a costly land war that kills thousands but would care about a quick, efficient, and cost-effective orbital attack. Either way the natives die, the only difference is the second option actually makes sense and you can’t have things making sense in a Hollywood movie these days.

Funnily enough, my support worker has similar complaints regarding the X-COM series.
In any case, it's probably a good point but it's also an argument I find I just can't wrap my head around or engage with very well…

@Winter Wrap Up song: Makes sense, with nostalgia and all that, plus I do agree it's a solid song,
…It also got stuck in my head and even had me humming/singing it to myself today…
IT'S EVEN HAPPENING NOW!

For those of you who like Rarity, Diamond Dogs, roller coasters, or just playing in general…

The app has updated yet again with three new ponies (Astro Pony, Hoovenheart, and Trenderhoof) up for grabs and a new minigame that makes it a bit easier to earn gems and shards.

Roller coasters, you say?

@Mine Cart Game
Best part about it is that it lets you use any pony that you want to, and a certain pony always swoops in to the rescue when you crash.
I think you can imagine how I like to play…

TO THE SKIES!

@Crash
Oh yes, enjoy watching Spike slowly discover his place in the world.

It's all downhill from there, little guy…

How about some wat?

Good Lord…

@Mine Cart Game
Best part about it is that it lets you use any pony that you want to, and a certain pony always swoops in to the rescue when you crash.
I think you can imagine how I like to play…

Cool, but what happens if Rainbow falls to her near-death, does she rescue herself?

@Crash
Oh yes, enjoy watching Spike slowly discover his place in the world.
[…]

It actually all seems very depressing when I think about it… Though admittedly, I don't actually think about him all that much.

How about some wat?

Good Lord…

My brain is full of ALL the fuck!

Hey guys, just wanna sidetrack discussion to talk about memes for a second (GOD FORBID)

Has anyone of you noticed the trend on Derpibooru where instead of "OP is a faggot", we're using "OP is a duck"

Where did this start? Anyone know?

Looks like its something that is rather specific to Derpibooru and the brony fandom but we've got no info on this in our 'OP is a faggot' entry

Example of the meme in use. Scroll down

Oh, I can do this!
From what I understand, it's a specifically Derpibooru limited thing arising from their ban on homophobic language. They chose "duck" presumably as a pretend misspelling of "dick".
Hope that helps!

Wow, is this really what I started this page with? Huh…