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Well, no use crying over spilled milk. Russia is reported to have started their attack on Ukraine. The question now is on how it will go.

I bet it ends with Russia occupying the entire Ukraine. And maybe beyond.

I would bet ukraine gets partitioned, the russian speaking bits turned into another belarus.

Ukraine is still a little less than 1/3 of the population of Russia. Holding only that will be a challenge, I never understood the logistics of a blitz across Europe that people predicted. The question for me is how far Putin will go, and how far will the West allow him to go.

That and the question of Nuclear Weapons. The P5 said in a statement in January that a nuclear war is a losing proposition for everyone, but in the event that the Russians go too far, the birds will fly. Is it when half of Ukraine falls, is it when the EU is attacked (that includes Finland), is it when NATO is attacked, what are the red lines?

I want to say I at least had a good and accomplished life but that would be a lie, but everything ends I guess so welp

This sadly aged well

So the political forces were able to rally the civilians. The military was kept in good order. Equipment is being deployed to the front. Kyiv holds. Russian paratroops going MIA after not getting backup at airports.

Hey guys, wanna see what would have happened to the Nazis if the USSR didn't invade Poland?

This is why whenever some terminally online socialist tells me, that as a Jew, I should be grateful every damn day that the USSR saved my sorry ass from the Nazis, I remind them that the USSR literally teamed up with Hitler to destroy Poland, where the vast majority of Jewish holocaust victims were from. I'd be a hell of a lot more grateful if the USSR actually – you know – fought the fascists when they invaded Poland, not join them. Imagine how much of the war would have gone completely differently, how many millions of people would have survived.

Especially since the first thing the USSR got up to was… Genocide. Because papa Joe made an oopsie during the siege of Warsaw and he had a grudge

so, fuck Tankies right

Does anyone want to discuss the response of the American Right and their affiliate's response to the invasion of Ukraine? With Tucker Carlson (one of their media gurus) and Trump's response, the little of contempt I feel towards them plumbs new debts, and I already have very little faith in them.

Or even of their electorate, with the things people have said here and elsewhere. Apathy at best, support at worst. It's particularly galling with the previous racketeering attempt over NATO.

It crosses the line.

Actually you know what? the metaverse is foolish, you know why? we already have it! have you seen second life? second life is super advanced! it has been doing everything they are going to be doing with the metaverse years before! sure the graphics kind of suck and it aint vr but otherwise what are this new metaverse doing that second life isnt already doing? we are running out of things to invent I say again

edit: also there is this dystopian bullshit

You are suprised a war between two parties with no real ties to america on the other side of the world isnt inspiring a 9/11 style setting aside of the grievances that divide americans?

The "russia" political beat stick has been worn to a nub over the last 7 years and the war drum has a 20 year hole in it. Any attempt to manufacture a coming together moment out of yet another foriegn policy cock up by the asterisk administration is just going to deepen the contempt to which it is held.

I thought I had already reached rock bottom in contempt, but yeah I am actually surprised. The US were the ones who warned about the invasion. I find the contrast of that with some in the American Right outright fawning over Putin to be disquieting.

I find it ironic, with all of the Iraq War talk about democracy and "Are you with us or against us", that it's now the American Republicans who now have a big question mark about their courage, integrity and loyalty. Didn't they used to bang on about those values, like sovereignty?

The issue now is after all the fuckups, and the trade wars against other democracies and other hostile measures (somehow it's too much time and money to care about these countries, but the Trump supporters had all the energy to start those), the tumbling down in the Democracy Index, and now some outright trying to justify Russia's claims? After all of this, it's gone beyond discussions on disunity, incompetence and apathy to what I suspect to be outright collaboration, or treason. At least an irreconcilable difference in values.

I agree, a lot of patience and goodwill has run out over the past couple of years. The question starts to become, "Whose side are you on"?

Is there going to be issues with modern Lord Haw-Haws running about?

I'd like to make a prediction and say that there's no excuses if anyone is caught trying to fight for Putin's Russia. No "citizens have a right to support good causes", or any other moral equivalences.

I doubt it'd happen, but with recent events, It wouldn't be impossible.

Pat King, Canadian white supremacist and convoy leader, denied bail

Bon voyage, COVID goblin

So what is Putin's endgame anyway?

Annex further parts of the Ukraine? Establish a puppet government in Kyiv? What does he stand to gain from this war?

Russia wants a buffer state under its direct control, like Belarus is for Poland.
Which is why the blowback of Finland wanting to join as an article-5 partner is hilarious

1. Remove the current regime in Ukraine
2. Remove foreign-made arms and demilitarize Ukraine
3. Hold referendums to let each individual oblast of Ukraine decide whether it wants to be part of Ukraine, autonomous (and thus weak enough that it's dependent on Russia), or part of Russia; basically rather than 1 big puppet have many small puppets to reduce need for occupation force (since no known one is in the works and Russia is adamant about not occupying) by keeping them small enough and rigging the vote like they did in Crimea with their little green men.
4. Bar any future attempts at the state legally joining NATO
5. Gain greater access and control over the black sea
6. Move Russia's security concerns away from the flat plains on the border with Ukraine towards the Dneipr river
7. MAYBE link up with Transnistria, the Russian separatist state in Moldova
8. Humiliate NATO
9. Intimidate other neutral border states that consider following Ukraine's path of moving towards NATO or non-Russian alliances

That's as I understand it.

Alright then, explain your first paragraph. So I'm not the only posting a wall of text.

I think it's for once a good invocation of that word. Hearing talks about LGBT and how that should make some reconsider Russia? The woe is me rhetoric about how some were forced to support Russia, and hearing that type of bullshit from the mouth of even a newscaster? Enough, that's not neutrality. It's a fifth column.

I remembered how the Trump movement was described here as a revolt against norms by those who lost patience. Well I've lost all patience, someone should have slapped that word down a long time ago. Democrats? It's not fucking about them, it's about the "Free world" if the US hasn't managed to drag that term through the mud enough.

The problem is, it's not just trying to be left alone is it? It's actively aiding and abetting Putin by giving credence to his rhetoric. I already said that I'm okay with that group doing nothing. Go isolationist, but sabotaging is not isolationism. The American Right have done enough harm that they don't get to pretend to be neutral.

I mention Iraq, because I like to throw back arguments. I had to deal with unironic usages of that.

Trump also pardoned Blackwater war criminals, you all don't get to wash your hands of the affair. I also despise that after years of justifying moronic foreign policy with neocon arguments, it goes 180 and still justifies moronic foreign policy with past failures. It doesn't mean a change in heart, it means they're all useless through and through, no matter what.

Sabotage however, on top of failure, falling democratic norms and hostile action? This is the straw that's breaking the camel's back. I know you don't care, and that's the issue. It's not a defense, it's an indictement. Russia is a damned autocracy, all arguments are rendered moot in face of that. Want to stay neutral? I'd prefer if the American Right and affiliates, or whatever group is causing the rot actually kept to themselves and didn't make it harder for everyone else.

As a response to that hypothetical American: "Fuck you, you useless cunt. I want you to stay out of everyone's way, because right now, you are helping him more".

I also don't want to be compared to those in the American Right who say they're on no one's side, as someone who was against the Iraq War and rejected Bush's "Black or white" ultimatum.

The similarities are superficial at best. I was against the invasion for the humanitarian cost, the wastefulness, the authoritarian lead-up to the war and lies, and that it actually would hurt the cause of democracy and the West, as said by Villepin.

What is the argument for those who are neutral to Russia's invasion. Apathy? Sympathy?

I'll believe that Kyiv will hold when it holds. Russian ground forces have assaulted the city proper for less than a day and they still have the vast majority of their most capable BTGs in reserve. Distributing automatic weapons to civilian volunteers makes for a good headline, but doubtful that it meaningfully impacts the real balance of power.

The Ukrainian resistance has beaten all expectations, but even so my laymare's prediction is that Kyiv falls in 2-3 days and Ukraine's conventional armed forces capitulate in 1.5-2 weeks. I'll be stunned if it takes longer than the 5-week invasion of Poland.

Russia is attempting to go for a decapitation strike instead of eliminating the standing army, and it's going… well… bad. It's already taken so long that if/when they do take Kyiv command and control is already gone and all Russia has done is make martyrs.

A reminder that THE PLAN in Poland was not to use standing military forces as Finland used in the Winter war but a foreign-backed guerilla resistance. They leadership is fully in place to do so, the supplies are flowing, and the Russian geopolitical situation is super bad. Ukraine having lasted so long have fully porcupined itself. Russia is in the process of swallowing it.

Poorly.

Last time we had a similar situation Russia was better in every aspect militarily, and the conflict was one of the major pillars of destroying the USSR.

At this rate I feel like Putin will turn out like Nicholas II

Same army weaknesses (leadership, organization, logistics), same internal dissent, same economic issues (which are about to get worse). Personally, I think there's also a bit of Hitler there.

Ukraine isn't as huge as Russia, but it's still a large and populated country, and they invaded during Winter, before the muddy months. Dictatorships often underestimate democracies in thinking that they're weak, when in fact the resistance of Ukraine is high, and NATO organized itself very quickly. Something which surprised even those who lived in those democracies.

It doesn't look like it'll be a quick and easy war. Whatever happens, I don't see a happy ending for Putin's government and perhaps Russia in this situation.

A direct attack on Kiev and elimination of Ukraine's standing army are not necessarily mutually exclusive. The Crimean front is very active and the RA is currently developing successful thrusts to the east and north. Combined with the Belarussian and northeast fronts, the RA is threatening to unhinge not only the defense of Kyiv but the entire Ukrainian position on the eastern front, where their best and most numerous formations are located.

The quote the linked analysis: "Ukrainian leaders may soon face the painful decision of ordering the withdrawal of those forces and the ceding of more of eastern Ukraine or allowing much of Ukraine’s uncommitted conventional combat power to be encircled and destroyed."

> Ukraine having lasted so long have fully porcupined itself.

There's evidence of this for Kyiv, maybe. We'll see if/when the city is taken. As for the rest of the country east of Galicia, I'm skeptical.

> Last time we had a similar situation Russia was better in every aspect militarily, and the conflict was one of the major pillars of destroying the USSR.

If you're talking about Afghanistan, I think there are more differences than parallels. Getting into speculative territory but I highly doubt that a country with a TFR of 1.23, declining religiosity, one of the world's highest emigration rates, and a very recent history of being in Russia's sphere of influence, will be able to sustain a Mujahideen-style insurrection. In the absence of massive foreign funding, I expect any occupation/puppet situation in Ukraine to look more like Tibet than Afghanistan.

A reflection:
I was 4 years old when I was last in Odessa, visiting a dacha with my family for a few days. My grandfather and father grew up in Odessa, and I have heard many a story of how beautiful the city is. I always wanted to visit since I came to the US – even been planning an East European trip with the wife for 2 years now.
I've been saying that the invasion is imminent and would occur in February for a while now. But even when I would type it out a big part of me was seriously hoping, even praying, that I was wrong. That all those peeps on the internet who say "Russia will never invade, it's all US propaganda" were right. But then it happens. I wonder if the next time I see Odessa would it be a ruin? Another city I visit where I have someone point to a spot and say "see here, this is where the bombs fell, this is where we hid from the bombs underneath the clear blue sky".

It wouldn't be the first time. I was just hoping it would be the last.

Zelensky accedes to beginning immediate negotiations in Gomel (in Belarus). Let's hope a settlement is reached and the war ends promptly.

Edit: Russia says its demands are demilitarization and a declaration of neutrality -- but I kinda doubt that's all the concessions it'll try to extract.

They'll probably demand that Zelensky resign and Poroshekno be reinstate as President, because he was also a Pro-Russia guy.

Well there is Karhkov with any half-way competent assault would have taken by now. Best Russia has been able to do is penetrate the line by rushing in some vehicles that did not make it out. But getting back to Afghanistan, we're seeing an actual effective use of US military tactics for proxy wars. Flood the country with missile launchers and then have it convenient so many people are trained on them. The morale issue I don't see much difference of, especially after Putin started talking about de-nazification and having a purge list. With the Holodomir and Stalin's purges during and after the reconquest of Ukraine during ww2, Putin just put Ukrainian forces in survival mode.

And talking broader tactics, I think we're seeing the result of those nato "advisors" that were there in the previous months being "diplomatic". The defenses of the cities are still organized using sophisticated tactics, and even if they were to fall there is means and methods to continue the fight in good order shifting to guerilla tactics. I would also not be surprised if intel from NATO is making its way freely to Ukrainian command.

This is on top of the conscripts that will, and have, broken before the defenders.
I think we just have two different assessments of the situation that rely a lot on human feelings, so we'll have to see how it shakes out

never changed my mind about a new piece of technology

The situation with Ukraine isn't over yet, but even if there's somehow a peace agreement there will still be a lot of lessons learned in this short time:

1) Russia isn't led by a rational leader: As we saw with Putin's speech and miscalculation of the situation. Their military was nowhere near as strong as it thought, it seems they believed their own propaganda.

Their power isn't to the point they can't afford to go rogue, so whatever happens they've been humiliated.

2) The 'international system' is still strong: Despite years of talk that we're seeing the end of the current system, it looks it still has a kick. Even if the US isn't a hegemony, it can still mobilize it's network of alliances. I think the CCP is taking note of this.

3) The US Government was telling the truth on Ukraine: Distrust of the US was blinding a lot of people in a lot of nations, it's s a real case of the boy who cried wolf. It's a reputation that's been earned and has been haunting the US for almost twenty years. We shouldn't forget Iraq, but it can't be allowed to affect judgement.

Going forward, I hope the bit of credibility regained by the US is used for good.

4) The Alt-Right and it's supporters cannot be trusted, especially on Russia: Whether it's due to sympathy or apathy. It's not as if news, it's a cultivated reputation at this point, with everything stated in the past and present (Blackmail, Art.5) and with their ex-President praising Putin's move (ironically one of the stupidest things Putin has ever done).

I say the "American Right" is guilty as well, particularly because there's not enough dissension among their ranks. The political game they're all playing is unacceptable, they've coddled their extremists too much and for too long.

5) Ukraine needs to be integrated ASAP: Letting them languish because of bureaucratic technicalities is a mistake. They need to be in NATO at least. Any cost of having Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia out of Russia's accepted and defended would be dwarfed by the costs of them being overrun.

6) The EU needs to update it's thinking: It got some collective action prepared, but it still took a few days for some member states to understand the situation. I think too many were deluded that Russia wouldn't invade, "because it's irrational" (me included). There's also too many parties who tried to legitimize Russia's argument.

Germany's only rethinking closing it's nuclear reactors now of all times, and it's not as if France, Italy and other states didn't make other mistakes. If you want peace, prepare for war.

@Gilan
1) Rationality is dependent on information and facts on the ground. Putin was fed a particular set of facts from his generals that gave a false impression of the state of the Russian army. These generals maximized political survival over army efficiency. Based on that information Putin acted rationally. The problem was data. On top of which the Russians have been not dealing with a "war" but "operations". What I mean is, Putin is great at overwhelming extremely small-resistance swiftly. What he isn't prepared for is a drawn out war.

2) Agreed. I am actually quite amazed at the ability of economic impact of sanctions – this should put a deep chill into the CCP's plans with Taiwan. But, the drawback is always countries like Germany and Italy who may resist economic sanctions for personal gain.

3 and 4) I am saddened by this. When Trump was in office many pointed out the weird obsession with Trump calling it Trump Derangement Syndrome, that everything had to be viewed from the lens of Trump. Those same people are now prey to Biden Derangement Syndrome where their entire geopolitical viewpoint is from the lens of "Biden bad". It's one thing to maintain an ideology of non intervention – that's fine – but framing the conflict from the position of how this can be politically disadvantageous to Biden is just myopic.

5) Ukraine's army has proven itself capable and worthy of being part of NATO, for sure. The irony is not lost that even if Putin does succeed in capturing Eastern Ukraine, what he gains as well is Kosovo asking to join NATO, a real possibility of Sweden and Finland joining NATO now, and an eventual fast track of "Western Ukraine" joining NATO.

6) Agreed: The EU needs to deal with the reality that they cannot live under the shadow of WW2 – because the rest of the world has cast off that veil. The EU needs to recognize that this isn't the late 20th century any longer.

How China plays its cards in the following months will be interesting. Clearly its developmental strategy has been geared toward preparing for a more isolationist bipolar (China vs West) or multipolar (Eurasian powers & West) world, as exemplified by its most recent five-year plans.

China betting on a gradual transition into a self-sustaining Eurasian economy, taking advantage of its size to achieve internal economies of scale, was arguably on track.

But now Russia has sped up the bifurcation of global power from a matter of decades to a matter of weeks.

China is in a surprisingly enviable position despite being Russia's ally, and is taking almost no heat. But now its longer-term Eurasianist ambitions have been derailed. It will either have to reconcile with the West, which means toning down the assertiveness of its territorial claims; or continue on its previous path, now indirectly weakened by Russia's isolation.

Biden derangement syndrome?… I find all the responses that immediately come to mind wouldnt sound out of place from a Trump derangement syndrome with a few words swapped.

I find the man to be most of what was claimed of Trump; a corrupt, degenerate, senile, nepotistic puppet of foreign interests, weak on the world stage, wannabe tyrannical at home and his ascendance was a product of the greatest fraud since 2001. I believe it, a TDS would probably say the same of his view on trump and would react about the same well to my efforts to prove it as I to his.

I would assume mine would be more sound and again so would he his. The main difference I see in attitude between me and this hypothetical TDS stand in I think comes from the order of things;

As every month goes by and my view is vindicated in catastrophic episodes of failure and misery I find my reaction of dismay and outrage given a nitro boost by the feeling of resentment; after all the years of endless bile, the TDS' lines up in lockstep behind a worse monster so much effort was spent trying to convince everyone mine was?

If I am deranged it is not over the man, hard to hate an empty shell, its that so much of the world is pretending he was the sane outcome and I was the madman.

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And for the record; I sympathise with the Ukranians, I wouldnt shed a tear for putin if Ukraine became his Afghanistan. Give them all the missiles and guns they need, oh western rulers, just dont expect me to forgive or forget.

We need to move on from Trump as a society, he is like Bush at this point a memory. Bad things happen when we fixate on a time period, look at the bad stuff that has come from people fixating on the 1950s.

The chaos of the Trump era is over the war, poverty and pestilence era is now. I miss the 90s was kind of the peak of mankind…but again you have to move forward bad things happen when people get stuck on the past even when the past is better (though I am glad Trump is gone but again you cant get stuck on the guy forever wether hating him or loving him its over)

You wish.

The martyred dont just die; 2024 will be a Trump election, if not himself then one attempting to fill his mold and the democrats will either cheat or lose.

With noone who isnt either obscure or carrying too much baggage the Democrats will be faced with the same situation as the last two times. 3 more years of this will kill the idea of "anyone but Trump" and the DNC will be no more willing to allow actual viable outsiders to win a primary than they were before.

God help america if they cheat.

China is not Russia's ally, and neither is Russia China's ally. They have economic treaties but are not in any defensive alliance, and most likely will never be.

China is probably hesitating hardcore right about now. They are definitely taking notes. The question is, do they have the ability to analyze the situation objectively, or will it be through the lens of their own hubris?

Not thinking about the past will be vital to coping with how bad things are/ might get. Nostalgia is very tempting but it often makes things worse, especially in times of great strife

That's unlikely to happen any time soon. Normal Presidents maintain relevancy for at least a few years after their final term. Trump is distinctly exceptional in a way that will allot him some vague relevancy for much longer, similar to other exceptional Presidents such as Wilson or Nixon.

But for what it's worth, I think conservatives will be the first to truly "move on". As a positive figure, he's not very unique. Eccentric and weird as a person, to be sure, but as a politician he's just a bit uncommon. People love populists, and the little guy always enjoys someone who, at the very least, pretends to care about their issues. And does so a bit more convincingly than your run-of-the-mill politician.

As for liberals/the broad Democrat tent? Trump is special. Great effort was expended over the period of five years to craft him into the perfect boogeyman, a being with ill-defined motives who's probably somehow responsible for every ill, especially the ones whose true origins are uncomfortable (such as why people don't trust the news). You don't just throw a way that effort. He won't be a constant fixture, but his name will still get dragged out every so often, whenever someone needs to find a scapegoat, even if it's obviously bullshit. Frankly it's hard to say how long this could last, but I imagine the least ethical among politicians and journalists could keep it going for at least a decade.

Breaking "big if true" news

An official Ukrainian military account is claiming that multiple EU countries have offered to supply fighter aircraft and that Ukrainian pilots will be able to fly them from Polish territory.

I'm 95% sure this is either a misunderstanding or propaganda, but if true then this is bordering on a declaration of war by Poland and we may see Russian air strikes on Polish territory.

Russia put itself in the position where it can't complain/call out arms sales and transfers due to actions going from rearming Iraq to the Afghanistan situation. Due to shadowy dealings in order to further its political goals Russia spent its credibility and created a situation that came back to hurt itself.

The blowback's obvious when it's not your country doing it isn't it?

And yah if someone's going to drag NATO into fully it's going to be Poland, they've been advocating the fight since the "vacationer" phase of Russia carving off the Donbas.

NATO's Article 5's (the everyone jumps in bit) requires an attack on a member that is either:

"on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France, on the territory of or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer"

or

"on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer."

In theory Poland can go whole hog and join the Ukraine war outright, charge into ukraine and bring the fight to the russians, but until thier own lands get attacked NATO has no obligation to jump in behind them.

Incidentally I am not sure how much I need to emphasize that NATO jumping would be is a really, really, REALLY bad thing to happen!

Two or more nuclear states of sufficient arsenals to END THE FUCKING WORLD on opposite sides in a conventional war was the nightmare scenario that the cold war was all about avoiding!

Exhausting itself on ukraine and triggering an internal coup is the absolute best outcome we can hope for as it wont trigger a "taking you with me" reaction, NATO charging pell mell into Russia makes it a guarentee.

This is one dog you do not want to back into that particular corner.

More or less that I am seeing a ton of US political punditry voicing opinion on the ongoing Ukraine – Russia conflict from the lens of either "How can I make Biden / Democrats look bad with this take" or "If Biden / Democrats are for Ukraine, I must therefore be for Russia, because they are such and such liars".

I think it's a myopic viewpoint, no different than the idea that Trump was somehow "pro-Russia" despite levying a shit ton of sanctions on Russia under his administration.

The thing is, I recognize what is happening. It is 2022, after all, and the Democrats were poised for a major defeat in the fall – if they can tie the GOP to the "pro-Russia" stance politically they may have a better chance given how much of the world is unified against the invasion as it is. There are many on the conservative side that legitimately have the position that the US should just not be involved – which I can understand. But what get's me is the complete nod in agreement with the position that Putin presents, i.e. "nAtO eXpAnSiOnIsM". I make fun of this because I am constantly having to deal with this narrative online constantly – and it's strangely the talking point of the progressives (who view it as American Imperialism) and the far-right conservatives. Despite that even a bit of googling will show what an utterly empty reason that is.

The thing is. The GOP has a legitimate critique of the current administration literally at hand: If the sanctions and isolating Russia was to be such an effective tool, and the Biden administration was completely certain that Russia's intention was an invasion – why wasn't this employed earlier – before the blood bath?

As I understand it the NATO expansion narrative is predicated on the idea that NATO didnt rest on its laurels after the berlin wall fell but covertly used the opportunity to corral and contain a diminished foe. That hiding behind the mask of welcoming Russia into the ranks of freedom democracy and capitalism was an eagerness to exploit Russian resources and settle old debts.

You can see the conveniences a russian oligarch would find in the narrative when joe-blowsevich starts wondering when exactly they will see the good times westerners enjoy.

There's a few arguments floating about the resemblence american millitary bases increasingly share with a cordon around the Bear in recent years. There's also the fact that NATO reaching the open plains of Ukraine had been a "we're fucked, might as well nuke now" checkpoint in Soviet battleplans for a good 40 years, it gives a good hint of understandability to the russian viewpoint.

However I think the thing that turns it from incidental to intentional, on the part of our leaders in the eyes of some on the american right, is that there is a distressing amount of figures in the american political sphere on both sides of the isle who seem to have made it thier lot in life to give credence to the "our leaders are baiting the bear" idea.

If Russia and her allies so much as twitch? You got the Clintons, Bushes, Obamas and Mccains forming consensuses that Russia must be opposed and her allies deposed! China restarts colonialism, picks fights with our east asian allies and sets up concentration camps? Silence. The Saudis go medieval on Yemen? Crickets

The why of the latter is obvious; China and Saudi Arabia puts money in the pockets of DC and arent exactly subtle about it, but its hard to believe every time Russia punches a neighbour the "Bomb Bomb Iran" gang spontaniously grows a conscience from which to be morally outraged.

Can you see why the idea that NATO expansion gained traction in the anti establishment right?

Now personally I dont belive it is a grand anti russian plot, I view it as the same as everything else they do; lashing out against anyone that doesnt cooperate with the post war globalist consensus with the equal parts shortsightedness, spite and incompetence, utterly oblivious to the pain they inflict and the consequences they trigger, indignant that anyone would dare oppose them.

The Ukrainian war is but the end of one string in the grand uncoordinated mess of domino consequences left in the wake of those who think they should impose thier will on the world they inhabit. Pretty much like every other would be tyrant of history, Putin included lest we forget that even with his situation he wasnt an automaton in this.

Pity for them that they were born in an age where history is on fast forward and tyrants dont often get to die before their house of cards comes crashing down anymore.

As for why the progressives believe it? Because progressivism started as an ideological disease pushed by soviet agents through hollywood and western academia. It went far off the reservation after its handlers were put into retirement and stopped pulling the leash when it drifed into self destructive madness but it still sees the west as an enemy, still has fondness for its old paymaster and believes anything a leader of russia says.

Feel free to treat my last paragraph about as seriously as you would any other dissertation on "why my opposing -ism is teh devil". I just accept tankie's gonna tankie.

Czechia apparently outlaws public expressions of support for the Russian invasion.

I can see this backfiring. More ammo for the Russian government.

@Chewybunny

1) This still means that Putin has surrounded himself with yesmen, and that's not an accidental occurrence. Selecting good advisors is a skill, and he has selected for loyalty instead of competency, and any leader who finds themself in that situation is rarely able to get out of it, especially dictators.

2) The international system is strong for now, in countries made up of elected leaders, that's the best we can hope for, I guess. Maybe Germany or Italy will get in the way next time, next time it maybe France or the UK, or the US or maybe another country.

3-4) I would like to separate domestic politics from that of the overall government for the US, but that hasn't been possible for years now.

I would suggest everyone remembers that the first reaction of many (alt-right, some of the American Right etc…) was to try to justify Putin's war, sometimes with ideological arguments (some are now trying to spin it as something more reasonable, but the mask slipped for a moment). Everyone can disagree on Biden's or any politician's strategy, I know I have, but supporting Russia's invasion? I would say it's an alarm bell to get that partisanship under control.

5) Russia's action has ironically also killed Nordstream 2 and put a dent into China's Eurasian railroad plans.

6) Yes, sometimes it feels like we're in a new era. Sometimes it feels we're like going back to the 20th century.

fucking lol