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![File: sci-fi-art-of-chris-drysdale-4.jpg (111 KB, 1024x576) O Anonymous 07/28/19(Sun)17:34:41 No.67510490 Archived What would the geological strata of a 10000-year old industrial world be like assuming the inhabitants gave zero f---- about the environment. So far I have concrete, industrial slag, and rusted metal, but more is good. Also, general discussion of tabletop things to do in such a setting is encouraged. O Anonymous 07/28/19(Sun)17:36:08 No.67510516 >> >>67510490 Acidified soil which is also polluted by heavy metals on which almost nothing grows. O Anonymous 07/28/19(Sun)17:51:16 No.67510753 >>67510490 You could have the bacteria and simple organisms which can survive on such toxic fare form huge slimy "fields" of matted biofilm. If the PCs investigate further, they may see miniscule organisms crawling and slithering through the stinking slime. Give the impression that although life is recovering, the new ecosystem is not going to be one favorable for human ( If the PCs are human) colonization. O Anonymous 07/28/19(Sun)19:55:13 No.67512676 I'm a geologist, and I've thought about this quite a lot. You would likely find a planetwide stratum highly enriched in heavy metals, especially well preserved in lacustrine and coastal marine sediments, which would also contain large amounts of preserved trash; especially glass, stainless steel and some plastics, would would all still be kicking around after that time. 10ky isn't enough time to form rock, so they would all be as unconsolidated sediments and soils. Cities would have a highly peculiar geology, consisting of geometrically arranged hummocky hills probably grassed over, with the hills consisting of concrete with the presence of iron-rich minerals and, depending on the building, trace metals like tellurium, neodymium, gold etc. from electronics and so on divided by strips of tar that are buried roads. Fragments of well-built tunnel networks would survive, those that are not caved in would be either crumbling or filled with water and sediment depending on the height of the water table, their construction and the surrounding geology. Around and especially downwind of the cities would see very high amounts of heavy metal and toxic pollutants, provided they haven't been leached out by rain. Nuclear facilities would also be very identifiable thanks to their radioactive pollution slick and concentration, and many containment structures would still survive thanks to being massive edifices. Rubbish dumps would turn into goldmines for artifacts, and many would be very well preserved thanks to the anoxic conditions inside the trash heaps. Some structures, especially large ones of concrete and stone, would survive. I'm talking about hydro dams, bridge pillars, monuments and the sort of large edifice that would resist erosion. Pure concrete would survive better than reinforced concrete, since steel rebar has a tendency to swell as it rusts and crack the concrete. O Anonymous 07/28/19(Sun)19:56:19 No.67512689 >>67512676 Mines would also be very well preserved, with quarries appearing nearly exactly as they were left. Underground networks would also probably be still around, but crumbling supports would render many highly unstable and under the water table some may completely fill with sediment and mineral deposits (given long enough this would lithify and form a perfect underground cast of the tunnel network). This also goes for mountain transport tunnels. O Anonymous 07/28/19(Sun)21:30:25 No.67513869 File: 3c2bf4d8673ae762d33dd3f2a(...).jpg (86 KB, 550x733) >>67510490 Not the geological strata, but I wouldn't mind commenting on the environmental conditions a bit: First and foremost conditions would be arid, uncomfortable, and toxic, with much of the world desertified or otherwise turned into a kind of wasteland of harsh toxic winds, rust storms, dust devils, acid rain storms, with most freshwater available being either acidic or extremely toxic due to industrial runoff and other contaminates. >Birds are basically extinct. Most if not all birds would be extinct. Much like a Canary in a coal mine their delicate lungs and sensitive respiratory systems would not be able to withstand or adapt in time to the heavily polluted air of this industrial waste-world. There species most likely to persist would be the ones we're already accustomed to: Pigeons, Sparrows, Carrion Birds, but even these birds would be very rare, few in number, with their entire species' health and reproduction constantly compromised by this environment. >Rat world Every mammal larger than a Dog would be extinct, but the ones that did survive would carry on and if anything thrive as they've always done during such dramatic extinction events. Creatures like Rats, Mice, Shrews, Moles, Gophers, Rabbits, and other rodents & burrowing creatures would find this meager world abundant in resources and lacking in predators. They would simply be everywhere: subterranean animals can survive effortlessly in high carbon-dioxide and low oxygen environments, combined with their fast rate of reproduction would allow them to easily adapt, evolve, and overcome any obstacle this rust world threw at them. Still, though, there would also be Canines, Goats, Hogs... Maybe Bears? Omnivorous generalists would be at an advantage, but most large animals would find it difficult to find sufficient sustenance or take too long to mature and reproduce before they succumb to pollutants. O Anonymous 07/28/19(Sun)22:04:35 No.67514293 File: Oa678daae67232420ddc21a4d(...).jpg (86 KB, 1024x597) >>67513869 >Spots of greenery. Vegetation would continue to grow and the world would remain greener than most people would expect it to be as a diversity of species would be more than capable of safely growing in toxic & polluted conditions due to remediation techniques, but the arid and hostile weather conditions and the presence of acid rain would limit really abundant, rich, greenery and growth... Most of this vegetation would be immediately toxic and inedible to people and would need to be washed and processed. Trees would be exceedingly rare; replaced by scrubs, shrubs, bushes, succulents, grasses, lichens, moss, and other foliage that can withstand not just the lack of proper rainfall, but keep from being torn apart by the rust winds. Though, most places would often simply be too wind-swept, too hard of earth, and too 'sanitized' (lacking in rich earth) to sustain vegetation. >Creeping things. The vast majority of Insects would largely not give a single s---, but an overwhelming spectrum of specialized insects would go extinct from the absence of the unique resources and ecosystems they dependent upon as opposed to the polluted biosphere. I highly doubt any Bees, Butterflies, Moths, and most Wasps wouldn't make it, but certain Beetles, Flies, Roaches, Mosquitos, Worms, and the like would adapt, overcome, and carry on as usual. By the 10,000 year mark Insects would be carrying on as if nothing happened. O Anonymous 07/28/19(Sun)22:29:32 No.67514584 File: eba179ce56f965fb406ffcd8f(...).jpg (159 KB, 768x511) >>67514293 >Muddy shallow oceans: rich with 'life'. Despite this worlds oceans drying out to shallow seas they would still contain a rich, versatile, depth of marine life and be home to 90-97% of the polluted worlds life. To the point where people and creatures living by what remained of the muddy, polluted, plastic covered seas would still fare quite well compared to the people and creatures living in the interior wastelands. The other irony is that these shallow seas would allow for more sunlight to breach through the depths and encourage the development of more reefs, kelp forests, and 'land' for other marine organisms to flourish despite the conditions. Indeed, the only 'real' threat faced by the remaining oceans would be the suppressive, smothering, waves of plastic that would block the sun and choke creatures. Most heavy metal pollutants and industrial run-off would give rise to algae blooms and act as vital fertilizer and nutrients to Scum, Algae, and other simple organisms. These in turn provide ample sustenance for bottom feeders and combined with the far warmer waters would give rise to increase size, fertility, and populations of shellfish: Mussels, Lobsters, Crabs, etc.. These creatures would be, again, toxic, due to pollution, but they'd still be an important food source. Everything else in the ocean would be hit or miss depending on how many species were left untouched as no threat is greater to the ocean than overfishing. Most marine mammals & seabirds would not survive these harsh conditions (Penguins and small Baleen Whales might ironically persist?), but fish would be able to repopulate, survive, adapt, re-fill niches, and even SWELL in numbers so long as they weren't eaten before the collapse. O Anonymous 07/28/19(Sun)23:50:07 No.67515469 No standing or running freshwater would be safe or trustworthy: it would ALL be contaminated by the heavily polluted world's plastics, heavy metals, and various other noxious pollutants- some sources of water wouldn't even be water but horrible burning pools of acid. The only safe source of moisture would be from acid rain and even then it wouldn't be 'truly' safe; the LEAST safe source would be ground water, as it'd be completely and totally saturated in the absolute worst contaminates. This is a world devoid of wells. Many freshwater biomes would be highly polluted, dangerous, muddy cesspools devoid of any palatable life; giving off noxious fumes that alone would dissuade other creatures from drinking from them, never mind some of them in fact being horrifying pools of flesh-melting acid. Despite such adversity there would still be Scum, Algae, and dense clouds of Microbes, all supped on by seemingly invincible and now ridiculously plentiful Minnows (progressively getting larger and larger. Pan-sized Killifish would not be uncommon). Running rivers would fare 'slightly' better, but they'd still be home to much the same- only just clean enough to house Catfish, toxic Shellfish, and fish capable of breathing air. There would be no Frogs, no Newts; all amphibians would be extinct, with intrepid air-breathing fish aggressively taking over their now empty niche. O Anonymous 07/29/19(Mon)02:34:19 No.67517474 First and foremost: I don't think people would be living in scavenged, ugly, derelict, improvised, shanty towns, I just don't. I also don't think you're ever going to see anybody living out in the open. This polluted world is going to not just dominated by hot, arid, toxic wastelands, but it's also going to come with all the weather conditions: acidic rains that eat through and corrode most metal or wood structures, and massive, extremely powerful, noxious dust storms filled with rust, pollutants, and even radioactive debris. Most people (depending on their technological levels) are either going to be nomadic (actively fleeing from the weather), living underground, or in specific terrain that otherwise blocks the wind or keeps them secluded from the worst conditions. Imagine the dust bowl, but now it burns, it can make you sick, and it's got enough momentum to shave you. | think people are going to recycle what's available and use it to make 'new' stuff for themselves: buildings out of clay, straw, brick, and mortar, metal melted down and reforged into higher quality tools, weapons, & armor, vehicles and technology either fixed or refurbished into 'new' devices to lengthen their lifespan. Nothing is going to be made out of wood. Wood is gone. Technology, though, can be whatever you want it to be. I'd imagine there'd be the full spectrum: people living in technologically advanced communities, ignoring the problems outside as they live in unfathomably luxury and plot their next step into space. People living in 'fairly' developed mixed medieval-modern 'Nausicaa' style countries or kingdoms that are naturally protected from the worst weather- relying on swords, guns, and tanks to defend their highly sought after land, where you've got pick up trucks & radios, but your military still wears suits of armor. Finally, you may even have just.. straight up ooga booga not!larping, legitimately f------ ignorant tribal communities. O Anonymous 07/29/19(Mon)14:28:23 No.67524582 File: post-apoc london.jpg (289 KB, 1920x1080) >>67517474 >>67515469 I don't know if you're still here (and this is great stuff btw), but seeing as you mention how utterly rekt the saturated ground would be in terms of contaminants, I'm wondering how that would affect the big classic response to apocalyptic catastrophes - digging a big hole and building a bunker in it. Does that plan still hold up when the earth is toxic as hell? O Anonymous 07/29/19(Mon)19:00:06 No.67529247 >>67524582 >Does that plan still hold up when the earth is toxic as hell? Soft yes. Even though the ground is just completely saturated a Bunker would still function more or less the same because a 'good' Bunker would be air-tight, lead walls, protected from outside contaminants both from above and below. The only issue here is you wouldn't have the advantage of things like ground water, but if you've got a BUNKER, Bunker than you probably already have some sort of system going on. Even less-than-air-tight Bunkers would still be a thing in this world despite the health-risks simply because living in a dry pit of noxious materials is better than standing out in the open and getting sand-blasted down by the radioactive rust storms that blow over everything and everyone. This is also just something to think about, but a Bunker is usually implemented for apocalyptic situations where there's an immediate 'doomsday', but conditions are 'eventually' expected to improve: the fallout settles, society rebuilds itself, you maybe crawl out after 10 years and see what's up. This isn't going to be the case for Trash World. Our polluted world has seen 10,000 years of pollution (and industrial/technological development) and it's going to be a s--- hole for functionally forever, like, we're talking longer than 30,000 years, but maybe less time than 3 million? You, your kids, your grandkids, basically everyone 'forever' would only ever know garbage. O Anonymous 07/30/19(Tue)22:36:09 No.67549523 File: algae-beach[1].jpg (112 KB, 350x250) >>67517474 Lets talk about what there is to eat. Every plant is going to be toxic or 'immediately' inedible in some way or another, lets just address that right now. EVERYTHING is going to need to be washed thoroughly and then soaked in water for days before it becomes edible as ALL the plants (I think the term is remediation?) are going to store the various hazardous materials they're exposed to on a daily basis in their leaves and roots. Most people forced to live 'outdoors' or otherwise exposed are going to be farming a variety of starchy root vegetable. Gone are the days long growing periods and large exposed fields: conventional agriculture is going to be largely impractical or impossible due to the dust storms, the heat, and ironically not due to the pollution in the soil or the noxious atmosphere (still a problem, but being torn apart by wind is something most plants would never adapt too). The people with access or ingenuity to build indoor greenhouses and hydroponics would generate far better table fare as our polluted world would be FILLED with the ingredients for excellent fertilizer: collect soil, seave out the plastic, rinse and mix with water, if it's too dry add human/animal waste- you now have excellent (if radioactive) fertilizer rich in all manner of minerals & nutrients. Corn, beans, peas and grapes are big on this filthy metal-infused kind of dirt, but I think thin-rooted leafy vegetables don't mind it either? Again, wash everything. Though, algae replace grain. Algae would be 'the' food. Algae thrives in polluted waters, algae is a complete protein/provides ample nourishment, algae has a unique chemical agent in it that bonds with heavy metals and acts as an effective long-term treatment for poisoning, algae can also be used to make -safe- cooking oil (which would be rare) as well as biofuel for machines. Roasted, dried, or raw, algae also retains most of it's nutrients no matter what you do with it. O Anonymous 07/30/19(Tue)23:27:52 No.67550111 File: graphics-ssf_a-labella-_1(...).jpg (65 KB, 1200x675) >>67549523 Algae would also be an excellent source of animal feed and a decent segway into what most, like, 80% of people would actually be eating: meat. Agriculture is impractical, but meat would be the treat to eat in trash world. Rats, lizards, shrews, voles, moles, (admittingly) sickly deer, goats & small pigs, and a rich persistent supply of ever-present insects would all still be stubbornly persisting and therefor eatable. The great benefit of meat in this hazardous world is that it converts the paltry, inedible, hazardous, and often toxic plant life into more nutritious and far more palatable flesh. The animals that remain are going to adapt, evolve, and overcome the obstacles of this polluted world far faster than humans will: short life spans, high birth rates, and unlike plants they'll evolve ways to diffuse or 'remove' the hazardous contaminants instead of diffusing or moving them around in their bodies.. That and milk. From goats. Mostly. Rat & worm farms, goat herds, and people heading out with a shovel to turn over rocks or dig out the burrows of some tasty gopher would be the 'norm'. Seafood and even fish is still going to be on the menu as well. Shellfish (including Crustaceans) would be abundant and a reliable source of food, but would have to washed and rinsed thoroughly as they'd be loaded with pollutants that don't bother 'them', but would make a human terribly sick. Saltwater fish would be fair better than land animals, but worse than shellfish. Overall some things wouldn't change and you'd still see large populations congregating in maritime communities to fish the plastic-choked waters of this garbage world. There'd even be a scant few freshwater fish actively -thriving- because they were willing to put up with toxic environments in the first place just to survive and now their unique niche biome is EVERYWHERE. Provided people figured out a safe way to fish flammable waters, you could sup on some decent pan-sized fish.](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/list/002/186/865/96b.png)
![File: orange transparent chains(..).png (3.01 MB, 680x976) O LEGO Space 1995 Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)02:29:35 No.67744810 E GREETINGS FELLOW 90'S KIDS, I've spent my afternoon brainstorming about turning the LEGO Space themes from 1978 until around 2000 into a unified, coherent homebrew setting, and this is what I've come up with. (I'm sure something like this has been attempted before, so if it has, feel free to discuss that as well) https://lego.fandom.com/wiki/Space The lego themes from that era generally shared a narrative, but there's only so deep the lore gets for a series of toy blocks. I've tried to flesh them out a little bit to get kind of a basic idea of what a fully fledged RPG setting would look like, but it's just the basic skeleton. I don't have a particular system in mind, but something like Genesys could do the job. I'll go into the lore in a sec, but here are my general observations about themes: In the spirit of being inspired by kid's toys, the setting would be generally upbeat and adventurous but with some cyberpunk undertones. Guns don't shoot bullets, they shoot flashy lasers. The "bad guys" aren't murderous psychopaths, they're spies and thieves. Violence and vulgarity still exists, but this isn't a "dark reboot"; the goal is to maintain the spirit of the source material. All the figures are wearing space suits and there's not a plant or animal to be seen. To me, this says deep space colonization in a galaxy where teraforming doesn't exist or isn't effective (or hasn't had time to work yet). This might not be ubiquitously true, but generally speaking, most colonies would be sealed habitats with maybe small-to-moderate sized cities on the more populated worlds. That said, I see it as mostly post-scarcity; the people in the colonies don't so much worry about where their next meal is coming from, but they do worry about being caught outside with a cracked helmet. (1/3) O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)02:30:01 No.67744816 File: Futuron.jpg (116 KB, 613x690) 5828 LEGO >>67744810 (2/3) The earlier Classic Space sets, the Futuron sets, and Space Police I sets all wear very similar uniforms. Blacktron had a massive style change between Blacktron I and II. These things are noted in the lore framework. LEGO kept making Space sets well past 2000, but they stop being part of the same "canon". For the purposes of this, anything after Rock Raiders is considered a different setting (I'm even hesitant about including RR) So here's my very, very basic framework: Futuron is one of the great mega-corporations of Earth. Earth itself may not be dead or abandoned, but it is distant and mostly irrelevant; think StarCraft. Ages ago, Futuron set forth to colonize deep space. The early, classic Space sets represent the early days of the colonies, when you lived, breathed, and died a Futuron employee (with the Space Police I sets being the early Security division of Futuron.) These days, while Futuron is still the biggest influence in the colonies, they are not alone. Now that the colonies are beginning to thrive, more corporate interests have begun to move in, establishing rivalries or partnerships with each other and Futuron. In the interest of establishing a neutral, third party judiciary force, the colonies created the Space Police (Space Police II) though Futuron still maintains its own security force with whom they occasionally butt heads. Blacktron I started as an off-the-books black agency under Futuron, doing shady secret bad guy stuff. Blacktron was a nickname that stuck (originally a portmanteau of Black Futuron). There was an incident - a scandal of some sort - that exposed Blacktron, and Futuron cut them loose to save face and distance themselves from whatever the controversy was. But doing so seriously weakened the economic and political standing of Futuron. O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)02:31:04 No.67744824 File: spyrius.jpg (445 KB, 1520x1227) >>67744810 >>67744816 (3/3) In the modern day, Blacktron (represented by Blacktron II) has embraced their exposure and Futuron's bad press, and has established themselves as a "legitimate" rival corporation, aggressively moving to acquire Futuron assets and colonies. They claim to have cleaned up their act, but they're shifty af. (Think Cerberus in the Mass Effect franchise) M:Tron is a corp that's moved in/built itself up as a major labor and engineering interest, mining vast resources with their proprietary Magnitron technology. They're rivals with Futuron, but mostly peaceful. Spyrius is a group of outlaws and pirates operating from the planet of the same name (Spyrius), they are the ostensible "main villains" but they have more in common with groups like COBRA (GI Joe) or HYDRA/AIM (Marvel) than a full on rival military. Their MO is mostly espionage and subterfuge with a healthy dose of piracy and theft. Ice Planet is... an ice planet. Probably a subdivision of Futuron performing science on an ice planet. For being the coolest dudes, they don't have much "lore" but their emblem does resemble an icy Futuron emblem. Unitron is a PMC that can protect your interests without asking as many questions as the Space Police... for a price. Roboforce is a PMC that can protect your colony or perform search and rescue, also for a price. Most recently, the Explorien corporation has arrived to investigate newly uncovered alien artifacts. This will eventually lead them into conflict with the Zotaxians (aliens from the UFO sets, who are vicious conquerors) or into contact with the Holoxians (aliens from the Insectoids sets, who are refugees from the Zotaxians.) If Rock Raiders fit, they'll be another, smaller-scale mining interest, perhaps a crew of freelancers. So now that I've exceeded my autism quota, what are your thoughts? Should I put more work into this? Do you have anything to suggest/add/change? O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)02:49:52 No.67744945 >>67744810 >>67744816 >>67744824 Other Space themes around that era include the Earth-based Space Port, Life on Mars, and Mars Mission. I don't feel strongly about including them in the "canon" but if I did they'd happen back in the Sol system in the pre-Futuron era, perhaps illustrating humanity's first attempts at interplanetary colonization and the subsequent discover of (an as-yet undefined method of) FTL travel. Life on Mars is about encountering peaceful Martians and Mars Mission is about a conflict with evil CrystAliens, so my thought is the Astronauts would stumble into this conflict, maybe re-awakening the very last surviving Martians and helping them defend against the CrystAliens... But since they don't share much in common with the pre-2000 era sets, visually OR thematically, that might just be a lore easter egg. Similarly, things like the Aquanauts are sci-fi underwater s--- but they come with Earth sharks and octopi, so l'd be inclined to keep them on Earth. Maybe throw Exo-Force in there too. O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)03:57:59 No.67745451 File: Bricks_n_Pieces_Summer 19(...).jpg (185 KB, 792x1117) >>67745270 Look at the art in the OP, and imagine the entire Lego SpaceVerse reimagined through that lens. Basically I'm treating it as a backdrop for a general scifi setting, which is to say that people are still flesh and blood and not made out of bricks. The "seriousness" I'd put somewhere around classic film serials and comics of the 1970s, or kids adventure cartoons from the 70s-90s. Futuron being a sort of morally ambiguous megacorp version of Star Trek's Federation. Which is to say, the setting takes itself seriously - but the content is closer to PG than R. That's really just my take on it, though. I'm claiming no ownership over this, and if you want to throw out your own ideas of "Grimdark Legoverse" or "Super Campy Extra Fun Block Space" I would absolutely encourage you to do that! >>67745217 Sure. Rule of thumb: If it's one of the Lego sets, it's in the universe (somewhere.) I haven't decided if I want this (pic related) lore from the old set catalogues to be canon or not, but generally it looks like Spyrius uses a lot of big robots and employs armies of smaller androids in their ranks. Perhaps they're part of a top-secret robotics project from the old Blacktron? Hmm, experimental rogue Al (and their human servants/employees/partners) could have been the incident that got Blacktron exposed in the first place.. but that runs the risk of making everything too inter-connected. Thoughts? O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)04:08:30 No.67745527 >67745451 honestly the whole concept of Spyrius (A place that's more or less a planet of criminals and spies existing without getting orbitially bombarded by the space police on the daily) is kind of silly in the first place, so I say take the complexity as far as you want. I can definitely see an antagonistic relationship between Spyrius and Blacktron going on though. Assuming Futron still has a major stock in the Space Police business, Spyrius would probably be paying some hefty bribes to keep the police from raiding them. (If that didn't make much sense forgive me I'm tired as s--- right now) O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)04:14:45 No.67745572 >>67744810 I seriously doubt I will be able to convince my group to do this, but it definitely piques my autism. I like that the setting is so vast, but the technology is at a 90's futurism level, rather than sci-fi magic. It appeals to me a lot more than 40wank or cybershit. It's funny that some obscure LEGO flavor text captures such an interesting space setting. My only concern is a lack of content, unless you were willing to break from the "lore" to make your own, which sort of takes away from the feeling that you're playing LEGOS with dice. For instance, what are the established planets/colonies in this setting? Aside from Spyrius and Ice Planet, are there any other named planets or stations? I really like that you can just play with LEGO figures and blocks instead of traditional miniatures and terrain. It makes it cheap and easy, as well as allowing for a much larger variety of scenarios as well as keeping the childish feel of playing with LEGOS. Feel free to dump more of the sets that are inspiring you. O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)04:18:51 No.67745608 >>67745451 >>67745527 >>67745571 Could also be one of those situations where everyone "knows" Spyrius are a bunch of spies and villains but on the surface they deny everything and are really good at making it impossible to actually prove, and no one will f--- with them openly because they have a giant army of robots and androids. O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)04:35:21 No.67745736 >>67745608 That was mostly the direction I was taking with Blacktron as the shady rival corp (neutral evil pretending to be true neutral), with Spyrius being more along the lines of the unambiguous "villains". I think Spyrius would be more defended by their robot army. People know they're bad but can't really catch them, and the magazine excerpts suggest they have spies everywhere. situation of their home base being hidden or inaccessible, and heavily >>67745549 Exactly this >>67745572 Actual, hard setting details I could definitely use some help fleshing out. There are a few things we can borrow; example, Spyrius was marketed as coming from a planet by the same name. Ice Planet was said to have taken place on a planet called Krysto-2002. Some of the sets have names, like Zenon Star Base. But the specifics of mapping the colonies isn't something I've tackled yet, or how the geopolitics or economy functions (outside of basic "megacorps and colonies" and "mining s---") I'm thinking the colonies exist in a small star cluster, where travel between planets takes hours and travel between stars takes days, but travel outside the colonies would take weeks, months, or years (to keep the setting relatively contained.) I don't know what form FTL travel should take though. As for content l'm approaching it from kind of a Star Wars angle; the "stuff" we see (in this case, lego sets) is indicative of the bigger world but only scratches the surface. So rather than there only being one Deep Freeze Defender operating as Ice Planet's mothership, there would be dozens, hundreds, or thousands of ships of that class. There'd be plenty of room to introduce new designs, or fill in the gaps between them (ie there are a bunch of starbase sets, but none of them have bunkrooms... so one would have to assume there are living habitats connected to them) It's past my bedtime so l'm probably gonna take a step back for now, but I eagerly encourage anyone to throw around ideas of their own! O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)13:45:59 No.67750971 File: explorienfossil.jpg (40 KB, 352x211) >>67746768 >>67746783 >>67746792 >>67746808 >>67746813 >>67746824 >>67746837 This is all incredible. Do you happen to have any of the writing saved from that thread? I'd love to revive/cannibalize anything else they were working on. >>67744824 >Most recently, the Explorien corporation has arrived to investigate newly uncovered alien artifacts. This will eventually lead them into conflict with the Zotaxians (aliens from the UFO sets, who are vicious conquerors) or into contact with the Holoxians (aliens from the Insectoids sets, who are refugees from the Zotaxians.) So their whole thing was "decoding" these Alien fossils. I only have the vaguest concept for what's so special about them. Maybe they fill the role of the generic precursor race? In any case they seem like an easy segue into the UFO sets as extragalactic invaders, the "big threat" lurking in the darkness. Old Lego lore has the UFO aliens and the Insectoids aliens coming from the same planet so currently I'm preserving that by having the latter be refugees on the run from the former. Our boys the Exploriens will probably be the ones who stumble upon whatever ANCIENT SECRET it is that draws the UFO guys into our little corner of the galaxy. >>67745939 I thought so too but it's not as many as I thought. Rock Raiders were after Energy Crystals, the Aquazone factions were after Hydrolator Crystals, and the Insectoids had their Voltstones. RoboForce had these weird 1x2 chips with a circuitry design that said "ROBO" on them (that they collected in their storage boxes) but I don't know what those were supposed to represent. Robobux? Anyway, there's a lot of gaps that could be filled, like WHY the different guys do what they do. Ice Planet stuff has a lot of rockets, and they're supposed to be testing satellites or something? Why do that on an ice planet? The big orange chainsaws are probably to cut through ice, but... if they're testing satellites, why are they cutting through ice? O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)13:51:42 No.67751066 File: Ufo_alien_black.jpg (109 KB, 920x690) >another art dump while l'm typing You guys are great >>67750971 (cont'd) Maybe there's something fucky with the ice planet's magnetic field (naturally occurring, or hidden alien macguffins under the surface) but that's all l've got right now. If anyone wants to help flesh out some of the factions, go wild! And Re:Exploriens, their gear was always identified as like... telescopes and sensors and s---, even though they look like big ol' lasers. I might treat them as being kind of Star Trek inspired where their gear is INTENDED for exploration, but nothing's stopping them from shunting tachyons into the chrono- resonator firing beams tiparticles or the f--- they gotta do if attacked. They're the "weird faction. O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)14:32:23 No.67751651 What if the orange transparent pieces are hard light? some sort of deployable chip that allows mass production/infinite use of necessary items? using the OP Image, the dude has a chainblade for ice clearing, skis, and a protective visor/HUD. Blacktron survived primarily on the recreation of Fultron quality level Lightchips using what they had managed to take with them after their speration from Fultron. This was blatantly done, but as Fultron developed farther and farther ahead in terms of quality and technical design, Fultron developed a near identical Lightchips system, giving off red light rather than orange. While there is no meaningful performance difference between the two, an individual's color hue is often all one needs to know about their personality. O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)14:42:48 No.67751792 >>67751651 some other thoughts that occured after posting >Hardlight tech is what allowed Fultron to defeat the economic challenge of mass supplying budding colonies? >Crystals mined >>67750971 are uniquely vital as refractory elements in making Hardlight. The rights to mine are held in a fragile compact between Fultron and M:Tron, alongside the RockRaider subsidiary tasked with asteroid mining. >Freelance Casters (Hardlight designer) operate amongst all factions, leading to most non aligned players within the intercorp Cold War being a piecemeal of various Lightchip ensembles >Hard Light being opposed by some other type of equally useful and cost effective tech, either by alien forces or another corp. I like my idea a lot obviously, but I think it is at the very least a good handwave to keep the spirit of the camp and 80's aesthetic of the transparent orange, neon green, and other color schemes in the sets O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)16:44:04 No.67753628 >>67751651 >>67751792 I'm of two minds about hardlight. On the one hand, it's a killer idea. Solid flavor and explains the translucent aesthetic. On the other hand, having it be easily toggleable kind of undermines a few things. I was hoping to preserve some hard sci-fi aesthetic, since everyone wears space suits and it seems like climate-controlled habitats are minimal. So it can't be a miracle technology that solves every problem. Also the sets themselves, the "hard light" pieces are on hinges and s--- (if they move) and I want to keep the setting closely inspired by the sets. But I have some workarounds... One, maybe those cockpits aren't MADE of hardlight, but are reinforced by it? So a scaffolding or a sheathe of regular sci-fi glass is supporting a reinforcing hardlight structure. Second, maybe Hardlight is persistent; you don't switch it on or off like a flashlight, you forge it in a factory. It's light weight and versatile and maybe still needs to be "plugged in" to a lightchip to stay coherent over time, but that would explain why, say, the ice planeteers have a rack on their snowmobiles to hang their hardlight skis rather than just switching them off. Maybe both? O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)16:53:33 No.67753770 >>67753628 The orange transparent gear kind of looks like the omniblade from Mass Effect 3, which was a melee weapon made from hardened omnigel (a technobabble material used for just about anything). Basically, when you needed the blade, you'd essentilly instantly 3D-print one, and while it would break after use you could generate a new one as long as you have a supply of omnigel. O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)19:19:31 No.67756196 >>67753628 >One, maybe those cockpits aren't MADE of hardlight, but are reinforced by it? So a scaffolding or a sheathe of regular sci-fi glass is supporting a reinforcing hardlight structure. Second, maybe Hardlight is persistent; you don't switch it on or off like a flashlight, you forge it in a factory. It's light weight and versatile and maybe still needs to be "plugged in" to a lightchip to stay coherent over time, but that would explain why, say, the ice planeteers have a rack on their snowmobiles to hang their hardlight skis rather than just switching them off. Maybe both? Sounds like the miracle material Stuhr from The Leeshore by Robert Reed. >Stuhr is superstrong to the point of being usable for things like space elevator cables or the walls of fusion reactors, but only as long as it has a slight electrical current running through it. Turn that off, it disintegrates into dust. O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)04:40:06 No.67763673 >>67753628 >>67756196 I like this thing of a super strong material that needs to be constantly powered or else disintegrate. O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)11:01:21 No.67767321 File: Fundemental building bloc(...).jpg (78 KB, 744x389) >>67746598 Jump gates would work quite well - you can fly about in your "local" space under your own power, but the only fast, safe way to travel long distance is to go through the gate. Of course, there are risks - the Gates work by breaking down what goes through them into their smallest components, then reassembling them on the other side. Sometimes it can take a very long time before a jumper to come back, and sometimes they come back... different. O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)12:34:48 No.67768539 File: 6704_Space_Explorers.jpg (62 KB, 412x271) >>67753770 >>67756196 >>67763673 >>67766981 Yeah, I definitely like HL as a concept but I think it needs to have some degree of permanence. I think having it switch on/off and/or being easily malleable, Green Lantern style, diverts away too much from the classic idea. I want to keep a version of it, though, so l'll post more about it shortly >>67767321 I like this. I like the subtle shoutout to being blocks. I think l'd make some handwave caveat that they only "mis-build" inorganic material, because the body horror of being rebuilt without your legs is darker than I was going for, but the very real risk of having your ship rebuilt missing a key component is perfect. Also, the Zotaxians (UFO) are said to come to "this galaxy" through a wormhole... so I'm gonna kitbash some lore about this. In fact... maybe Humans can't transport living material at all? I'll present two options in my momentary loredump. I really appreciate the help and the enthusiasm, everyone! O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)14:26:11 No.67770312 File: 1-45.jpg (84 KB, 400x400) >>67768539 Re: Hardlight Hardlight is a lightweight, resilient, and versatile glass-like material formed from coherent energy. It is the handwavium "miracle" material that is at the center of the science that makes the colonization of deep space possible. The early Futuron expeditions only possessed rudimentary hardlight technology (peep the Classic Space sets) but resources from the star cluster and advancements in technology have turned it into a part of everyday life. The fabrication of hardlight used to be a proprietary technology which only Futuron knew how to do, but the secrets of its manufacturer leaked after Blacktron was excised from the company. This in turn broke some of Futuron's hold on the colonies, as where once they had a monopoly on the sole piece of technology running the system, now other corporations have the opportunity to move in and rock the boat. But just because anybody can build hardlight, not everybody has the resources to do so, and not everybody can do it well. It takes large factories, powered by energy crystals, to create the base material. Futuron is still the top dog in the sector, and that's not likely to change. Hardlight itself energized. Separate a hardlight structure from its energy source and it will slowly weaken over the course of hours or days, shatter, and eventually dissipate back into pure light as the containment field destabilizes. This is why we can see hardlight tools being used without a power source or interface, but rarely see entire structures made of the material. (Editor's note: I like the idea of them being "loose bricks" instead of something that can be switched on and off) (1/5) semi-persistent. In its raw form, it is a malleable, viscous substance with little rigidity. It requires the application of... science beams... (A light quench?) to harden it into a persistent structure. Once "forged" and "quenched", Hardlight objects keep their shape as long as they remain O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)14:27:14 No.67770324 File: 6929_Box.jpg (257 KB, 868x533) >>67770312 (2/5) Hardlight can be repaired by re-energizing it with an energy beam the way one might use a welding torch to repair metal, able to consistently return to its full strength. It can be recycled and reshaped to form different structures, and while this is often less expensive than forging brand new structures, it requires time and special equipment and thus isn't possible to do in the field. Scavengers will often scour wreckage for still-coherent hardlight pieces, rushing to gather them before they dissipate, so they can resell them to hardlight reclaimers. This is the corporations try to discourage, because they can't tax it. practice that Re: Space travel Warp drives work by doing some science s--- with hardlight. Propulsion still happens neighboring star system. Travel back to inhabited Earth space takes decades. "real" space, but due to science fuckery still allows ships to reach faster-than-light speeds in open space. However, space is vast, and even the fastest warp ships can take several days to reach the closest Futuron created the first Jumpgate (Buildgate?) out of Earthspace. It operates much like >>67767321 suggests; by deconstructing an object into "pieces," beaming them through [brickspace], and reconstructing the object at the destination. This process is not infallible, but it cuts the travel time to the nearest inhabited star sector from decades down to months. The sole jumpgate in the colonies is run, of course, by Futuron, but they do license its use out to other corporations (and heavily tax it). If a corporation were to build another jumpgate, it could cause a massive paradigm shift in the balance of power. (Editor's note: I want to keep Earth and other inhabited space a distant thought, to keep the setting grounded in the colonies. Leaving the colonies and escaping the corporations is outside most people's means.) O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)14:28:57 No.67770353 File: Mm001.jpg (45 KB, 240x320) >>67770324 (3/5) *I'm thinking that gates can't transport living material at all, and are thus far only able to transport tools, supplies, and communications. The initial colonists only arrived via warp-powered sleeper ships, and now that they're here, there's no way to leave (or come back) without making another decades-long trek through empty space. New colony ships arrive every so often, but until the problem of shipping organics through buildgates is solved, for most people it becomes a one-way trip. Maybe just cut the warp travel down to a few years and gate travel to days/weeks... Idk. Re: Al Service robots are somewhat common. (If you look at the sets, there are quite a few that come with non-minifig robots.) Heuristic, adaptable, learning Androids are not. Spyrius was the first to crack the problem of a "smart" droid, and for years they were the only ones. There are even some rumors that they are lead by one such droid. The Explorien Corporation has recently rolled out their own model of highly advanced smart droid for use in their expeditions, though, and nobody else is quite sure how they managed to do it. (Editor: Spyrius and Exploriens were the only human sets to have android minifigs) Re: Aliens Humanity made first contact with extraterrestrial life over a century ago on their Mars colony. While much of that information has been classified (read: I cba), this is what is known: Martians were peaceful, technologically advanced, but dying. After establishing communication and sharing knowledge (such as the early secrets of Hardlight tech), the CRYSTALIENS ATTACKED. Crystaliens were a race of hard, translucent crystal beings that were just really, really rude. They waged war with Earth and the remnants of Martian civilization to settle an old grudge (some believe they were an artificial race created by the Martians themselves, made of actual living hardlight). In the end, Earth won, but both the Martians and Crystaliens were wiped out (.. or were they?) O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)14:30:12 No.67770377 File: Lego_Insectoids_Catalog.jpg (193 KB, 800x398) >>67770353 (4/5) What Earth learned from the conflict allowed Futuron to become the prevailing megacorp, and opened up the possibility of interstellar travel and eventually the construction of the first buildgate. MEANWHILE, IN ANOTHER GALAXY.. The aliens of Zotaxia waged a bloody civil war. The Zotaxians are another race of persistent, hardlight-based life forms with highly advanced technology. Being hardlight-based, they can travel through "buildspace" unhindered. A large faction of refugees from this civil war fled their home galaxy, and ended up in ours, building a new home beneath the surface of the planet Holoxia. Holoxia, on the surface, is a barren and rocky world... but underneath the crust are layers and layers of caverns surrounding an "inner sun". These caves maintain an ecosystem dominated by massive, hardlight-and-silicon- based insects (dubbed bilgen bugs). The Zotaxian refugees (now calling themselves Holoxians, subtly changed by the planet's energies) were forced to adapt to this new environment by repurposing their vehicles to mimic the forms of the bilgen bugs in order to traverse the subsurface world of Holoxia unmolested. Their vehicles are powered by Voltstones, energy crystals able to recharge themselves in the rays of the inner sun, designed to look like bilgenbug eggs so they may be placed and "charged" in the bug's nests unnoticed. The life of a Holoxian is tough and unforgiving, but it is a life free from their former oppressors. Or it has been, for the past several generations. But the Zotaxian military has never given up the search for their former enemies, and their General has recently arrived from their home galaxy to find them and bring them back under Zotaxian rule. (Zotaxians = UFO sets, Holoxians = Insectoids sets). It's only a matter of time before the General finds them.... or the colonies. O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)14:31:56 No.67770401 File: 6979.jpg (201 KB, 874x626) >>67770377 (5/5) The colonies are unaware of this, and of ANY extraterrestrial life for that matter. After the Mars conflicts, Humanity has not made first contact with any new civilizations. Recently, though, the Explorien Corporation has arrived in-system studying what appear to be strange alien fossils. The Exploriens seem more interested in peaceful exploration, but do they have a hidden motive? Their technology appears to be more advanced than that of Futuron and the other Corps. What's their real story? How did they break the secret of smart androids? And what's the story with these fossils? What aren't they telling? Those are things I figure are better as plot hooks, but I think in general terms: The fossils are of an older race (Perhaps Zotaxians? Perhaps precursors?) that are themselves a hardlight-silicon-based life. Studying the fossils are what broke the code of creating smart androids and unlocking new secrets to hardlight, and that's why the Exploriens are so good at it. Also, I think Spyrius was able to kitbash their droids together years ago this same way - perhaps after discovering and rebuilding wrecked Zotaxian/Insectoid techdroids. And perhaps that's why they're able to pump out robots like nobody's business. That's what I've got so far. As usual, comments, critiques, suggestions, etc. are all welcome; I consider this a community project more than "mine" and I wouldn't have come up with half of this if you guys hadn't shown up. Next I think l'll work on fleshing out individual factions, so get those ideas out there! Also, all terminology is pending... things like build gates etc are mostly placeholders O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)14:46:28 No.67770642 File: 6958_Android_Base.jpg (189 KB, 800x574) >>67770401 Miscellaneous s---: I should add, l'm envisioning the "colonies" being a collection of maybe a dozen stars, surrounding the central build gate (which is the most densely populated, and the seat of Futuron's strength). Further outward expansion is hindered only by supply lines to and from the build gate; uninhabited star systems aren't inaccessible, they're just further away. Planet Spyrius sits hidden at the "edge" of what is currently colonized. Holoxia is outside the colonies, but close enough that someone like the Exploriens could discover them. The Zotaxians are searching for them, and are likely to start a conflict with anybody else they encounter. Any conflict would inevitably spill into the colonies. But these are the "looming, mysterious threats" rather than the clear and present danger. Explorien Corp might have secret Crystaliens in captivity. Futuron might have secret Martians kept alive back home. Spyrius might be lead by a droid, and that droid might be a an ancient and malfunctioning/repaired Zotaxian (or Holoxian, or "unnamed precursor") techdroid. It might be pulling a Skynet- style long con against the colonies. Or none of these things are true, they're just some potential plot hooks. O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)16:56:57 No.67773015 The part about interstellar travel being relatively slow (minimum of months, if not years or decades) the stargates only being able to transport inorganic matter would explain how Spyrius is a thing. The planet could be located at the edges of explored space, making sending a force to wipe them out very difficult due to the sheer travel time involved. Possibly the exact location of the planet isn't even known. However, since inorganic matter can pass though gates without issues, the Spyrians could have contructed their own gate and use and use it to transport their androids. Since they're way ahead of most other factions in Al development (possibly due to finding some precursor technology on Spyrius), this gives them a major advantage. Aside from the obviously robotic androids, they probably also have ones designed to pass off as humans, which they use for espionage. The androids could infiltrate other organizations, steal data, and use the jump gates to escape back to their base without being able to be followed by the Space Police. O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)18:01:29 No.67774053 File: Interceptron Transformer.jpg (3.08 MB, 3507x2478) Ok, here we go This is the Spyrius Interceptron Droid, a roughly man sized infiltration-focussed droid with two modes. The first mode, traveling mode, takes the form of a miniature, 2 meter long spaceship. It's as fast as a standard spaceship and, due to being purely mechanical, can evade being discovered by bioscanners. It is designed to be a stealth spaceship mode, though newer radars can pick them up. hand-waved as the central navigation module). After traveling to its destination it can switch to humanoid mode to more easily navigate inside spaces. This mode is less agile and subtle than androids who possess just a humanoid mode, but the travel form allowing for quicker attacks and less chance to be discovered upon entry . If seen by the naked eye it is often mistaken for a normal sized spaceship and therefore expected to be farther away and not posing direct danger. (The cockpit being there doesn't make much sense other than to give it a Transformers look. It could be either ignored or be makes up for it. Humanoid form possess standard android intellect and multiple hacking and information-extraction programs and tools, as well as a self-destruction protocol, should the mission be a failure. Interceptrons can use weapons in this mode, but rarely come outfitted with them, due to already being clunky for an espionage android and being focussed on staying undiscovered anyway. I've always really like the angle of Spyrius being specialized in robots and androids and a shapechanging infiltration android just made sense to me. Also it fits quite well with the idea of Jumpgates only being able to transport non-biological matter, so Spyrius , as a sort of guerrilla spy group, had to resort to creating artificial minions to bolster their ranks quickly. O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)18:02:35 No.67774080 File: Spyrius tank1.jpg (775 KB, 1836x2199) Secondly, the Spyrius Tremor Tank. I imagine Spyrius having multiple hidden bases on and inside meteors and asteroids. There (and on Spyrius itself) these tanks can be found. They only ever get used in missions in the rarest of cases, mostly just being stored in the hangars of their bases. But in case of an all-out raid on the base itself these tanks, with the help of some airborne defenders, can keep the attackers at bay long enough for the crew inside the base to delete all sensitive information, flee the base and cover their tracks. O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)18:03:40 No.67774095 File: Spyrius tank3.jpg (1.89 MB, 3264x2448) Once the base is cleared of all crew and information, the cockpits of the tanks detach from their bases, the communication gear swings forward (improving the location and navigation functions) and the barrels swing back, becoming propulsion units. When the cockpit has shifted to escape-configuration, it gets sent encrypted space-locations of the course of the escape vessel with the rest of the crew and travels there. These escape pods reach extremely high speeds, but they can only travel for very short distances. I've always like the modular capabilities of many classic Lego sets and in a universe, where it is much easier to send inorganic material than crew members it seems logical most ships would have some sort of escape pod and in colonies there would be a very clear philosophy to accept material losses if it means there's a higher chance of lives being saved. O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)18:04:53 No.67774114 File: Ice Planet WIP.jpg (1.28 MB, 2663x2142) Lastly I have this very rough wip of an Ice Planet utility vehicle, because they are really lacking in that department. For the finished version the lower part would be much bigger in relation to the cockpit. I imagine this vehicle being accompanied by some other vehicle made for cutting ice blocks out of mountains and pic related then picking up those pieces and transporting them either to a research station (should they contain some sort of precious mineral or other interesting objects) or just dumping them somewhere. The combination of those vehicles would allow for quick tunnel building or maybe even excavating spaces for bases built into ice mountains. Also the resulting ice blocks could be used to build structures as well. O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)18:11:51 No.67774257 File: Desertron pics.png (2.04 MB, 1454x1088) Oh also this my silly OC faction „Desertron" Just a small crew that stranded on a planet mostly comprised of a barren desert and in search of water, which they carry in rounded canisters and use both for themselves and as fuel for their machines (No idea why they wouldn't use solar energy, it doesn't make sense at all). Also one crew member swears he saw insect like humanoid silhouettes in the distance, but surely that's just the heat... This doesn't really fit in any big canon, but it might be a neat plot hook for some small rescue mission adventure or just background fluff that never gets followed up on. I like the idea of there being a bunch of small independent spaceship crews, hoping to make a fortune by exploring planets ignored or not yet reached by the bigger corporations. O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)14:58:02 No.67770832 >>67770377 Weren't the Insectoids all humanoid with heavy cybernetic modification? O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)15:12:30 No.67771098 File: lego-ufo-alien-blue-minif(...).jpg (116 KB, 700x700) >>67770939 >>67770984 >>67771002 As opposed to >>67751066 and pic related. I'd actually make the Insectoids/Holoxians a completely separate "race" from the Zotaxians, maybe rather than escaping a civil war on their homeworld they're two species that shared the same system and the Zotaxians conquered them, and just have weird alien mentality where they don't take too kindly to the Holoxians "escaping" their empire. Or something. O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)16:02:55 No.67771996 >>67771098 The "original lore" called the UFO aliens Zotaxians, and ALSO called the Insectoid aliens Zotaxians that were "on the run from their evil leader". The two themes were not released concurrently, though, so it could have just been a recycled name. I took the opportunity to expand on it, expanding on the "on the run" bit... But I also forgot they were opaque. So let's switch it up. They're either another "caste", or a race that was subjugated. Maybe even the UFO Zotaxians are a construct race that took over, machine uprising style? O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)16:10:01 No.67772135 >>67771996 What if the Zotaxians weren't always cyborgs or hardlight and were once an organic species, but were once a single race that had to adapt to a drastic change to their home world, and one faction did so by becoming cybernetic, and the other by putting their consciousness into hardlight constructs? This could also be the source of the civil war (similar to Total Annihilation, one of the best RTSS of the 90s) O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)14:27:49 No.67770335 File: 6155-1[1].jpg (141 KB, 871x599) LEo SYSIEM What if I wanna have underwater adventures? O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)16:34:00 No.67772601 File: 6198-1.jpg (206 KB, 872x624) >>67770335 Perhaps the initial push for space colonisaiton came about because Earth suffered a catastrophic environmental collapse, complete with massive sea level rises. A few hardy souls remained on earth, eventually making use of the technological advances in power generation, hardlight and sealed environments to begin reclaiming the planet. In turn, the developments in deep sea habitats and diving vessels have allowed new colonies to be formed offworld on aquatic worlds which were formerly uninhabitable. Alongside the "official" underwater colonies, pirate raiders, scavengers and other, weirder factions have developed. O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)23:49:47 No.67779015 >>67770335 >>67772601 I like the idea of Hydronauts and Scorpions being divergent factions of the original Aquanaut explorers and colonizers, and the Aquashark dissidents who chaffed under the rule of their corporate transportation sponsors and the subsequent contracts of indentured labor. Over time ideological and philosophical divisions grew greater, until the discovery of energy crystals in deep ocean trenches (Later discovered to be a subterranean phenomenon that was pushed upwards as a result of plate tectonics. Developments in deep-earth mining technologies resulted in the establishment of the Rock Raiders, who came to public consciousness after the disappearance of one of their flagship vessels, the LMS Explorer, which to this day is one of the most famous unsolved mysteries of space exploration) ignited their animosity into full-blown conflict. On one side were the more technologically advanced, corporate-sponsored Hydronauts, who used liquid-breathing technology to enable abyssal-trench exploitation. Opposing them were the Stingrays, who engaged in full-blown genetic alteration to free themselves of their reliance on expensive off-world manufactured goods, the cost of which often resulted in divers taking on further debt before they had even repaid their initial transportation contract. O Anonymous 08/14/19(Wed)05:36:03 No.67817953 >>67744810 I'm gonna use this as a rough basis and expand it to include all the non-licensed space themes. Thanks OP. O Anonymous 08/14/19(Wed)08:26:46 No.67819272 >>67744810 What about the medieval sets ? O Anonymous 08/14/19(Wed)12:27:29 No.67822196 >>67819272 They are far too removed from this and would work better as their own world. O Whiteagle 08/14/19(Wed)14:56:37 No.67824226 File: 37058628275_1a453b2e97_o.jpg (1.9 MB, 2275x2945) >>67822196 >they are far too removed from this and would work better as their own world. As in literally their own entire World, bootstrapped by stranded Spacers into a Techno-Fantasy land! O Anonymous 08/15/19(Thu)09:06:48 No.67836529 >>67744810 This post reminded me of the insane canon I had for all my LEGO sets back in the day. I think I set the whole story on Ice-Planet but I needed an explanation as to why they never left so Ice Planet was actually a giant planet the size of a solar system with several small stars orbiting it for light(I was a kid so forgive my scientific ignorance) and there were "Gravity Sinks" where all the gravity of the planet was concentrated leaving only regular earth normal gravity everywhere else. The Ice Planet people were a faction who were able to survive long periods in the ice, everyone else was trying to stay alive by going really fast or building giant ships to stay warm, the robot-heads(my autistic brother ate almost all of the heads of my early LEGO mini-figs so I stuck various parts on them to make them robots) were a faction allied with the Ice Planet characters. Blacktron and Spyrius(who had a few specific robot-minifigs who were evil) were the bad guys and the Robots(big non-minifig robots I made from some random Technic sets) were against everyone. The Space Police were good guys stranded on the planet trying to establish law and order but needed the Ice Planet factions resources to survive. The Exploriens could actually escape the planets gravity but stayed looking for alien tech that everyone was after. There was a bounty hunter I had who was an early Space Police mini-fig I got years after Space Police was upgraded, he hated one of the Insect-people and some other character I can't remember but he was also evil and had a weird face under his mask. I took a lot of inspiration from He-Man as I recall. I played in that world nearly every day for about five-six years and l'd forgotten all about it, never even wrote it down. It's nice to go back to a place like that even if only for a few minutes, thanks Anon. LEGOLAND](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/002/276/011/905.png)
![File: orange transparent chains(..).png (3.01 MB, 680x976) O LEGO Space 1995 Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)02:29:35 No.67744810 E GREETINGS FELLOW 90'S KIDS, I've spent my afternoon brainstorming about turning the LEGO Space themes from 1978 until around 2000 into a unified, coherent homebrew setting, and this is what I've come up with. (I'm sure something like this has been attempted before, so if it has, feel free to discuss that as well) https://lego.fandom.com/wiki/Space The lego themes from that era generally shared a narrative, but there's only so deep the lore gets for a series of toy blocks. I've tried to flesh them out a little bit to get kind of a basic idea of what a fully fledged RPG setting would look like, but it's just the basic skeleton. I don't have a particular system in mind, but something like Genesys could do the job. I'll go into the lore in a sec, but here are my general observations about themes: In the spirit of being inspired by kid's toys, the setting would be generally upbeat and adventurous but with some cyberpunk undertones. Guns don't shoot bullets, they shoot flashy lasers. The "bad guys" aren't murderous psychopaths, they're spies and thieves. Violence and vulgarity still exists, but this isn't a "dark reboot"; the goal is to maintain the spirit of the source material. All the figures are wearing space suits and there's not a plant or animal to be seen. To me, this says deep space colonization in a galaxy where teraforming doesn't exist or isn't effective (or hasn't had time to work yet). This might not be ubiquitously true, but generally speaking, most colonies would be sealed habitats with maybe small-to-moderate sized cities on the more populated worlds. That said, I see it as mostly post-scarcity; the people in the colonies don't so much worry about where their next meal is coming from, but they do worry about being caught outside with a cracked helmet. (1/3) O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)02:30:01 No.67744816 File: Futuron.jpg (116 KB, 613x690) 5828 LEGO >>67744810 (2/3) The earlier Classic Space sets, the Futuron sets, and Space Police I sets all wear very similar uniforms. Blacktron had a massive style change between Blacktron I and II. These things are noted in the lore framework. LEGO kept making Space sets well past 2000, but they stop being part of the same "canon". For the purposes of this, anything after Rock Raiders is considered a different setting (I'm even hesitant about including RR) So here's my very, very basic framework: Futuron is one of the great mega-corporations of Earth. Earth itself may not be dead or abandoned, but it is distant and mostly irrelevant; think StarCraft. Ages ago, Futuron set forth to colonize deep space. The early, classic Space sets represent the early days of the colonies, when you lived, breathed, and died a Futuron employee (with the Space Police I sets being the early Security division of Futuron.) These days, while Futuron is still the biggest influence in the colonies, they are not alone. Now that the colonies are beginning to thrive, more corporate interests have begun to move in, establishing rivalries or partnerships with each other and Futuron. In the interest of establishing a neutral, third party judiciary force, the colonies created the Space Police (Space Police II) though Futuron still maintains its own security force with whom they occasionally butt heads. Blacktron I started as an off-the-books black agency under Futuron, doing shady secret bad guy stuff. Blacktron was a nickname that stuck (originally a portmanteau of Black Futuron). There was an incident - a scandal of some sort - that exposed Blacktron, and Futuron cut them loose to save face and distance themselves from whatever the controversy was. But doing so seriously weakened the economic and political standing of Futuron. O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)02:31:04 No.67744824 File: spyrius.jpg (445 KB, 1520x1227) >>67744810 >>67744816 (3/3) In the modern day, Blacktron (represented by Blacktron II) has embraced their exposure and Futuron's bad press, and has established themselves as a "legitimate" rival corporation, aggressively moving to acquire Futuron assets and colonies. They claim to have cleaned up their act, but they're shifty af. (Think Cerberus in the Mass Effect franchise) M:Tron is a corp that's moved in/built itself up as a major labor and engineering interest, mining vast resources with their proprietary Magnitron technology. They're rivals with Futuron, but mostly peaceful. Spyrius is a group of outlaws and pirates operating from the planet of the same name (Spyrius), they are the ostensible "main villains" but they have more in common with groups like COBRA (GI Joe) or HYDRA/AIM (Marvel) than a full on rival military. Their MO is mostly espionage and subterfuge with a healthy dose of piracy and theft. Ice Planet is... an ice planet. Probably a subdivision of Futuron performing science on an ice planet. For being the coolest dudes, they don't have much "lore" but their emblem does resemble an icy Futuron emblem. Unitron is a PMC that can protect your interests without asking as many questions as the Space Police... for a price. Roboforce is a PMC that can protect your colony or perform search and rescue, also for a price. Most recently, the Explorien corporation has arrived to investigate newly uncovered alien artifacts. This will eventually lead them into conflict with the Zotaxians (aliens from the UFO sets, who are vicious conquerors) or into contact with the Holoxians (aliens from the Insectoids sets, who are refugees from the Zotaxians.) If Rock Raiders fit, they'll be another, smaller-scale mining interest, perhaps a crew of freelancers. So now that I've exceeded my autism quota, what are your thoughts? Should I put more work into this? Do you have anything to suggest/add/change? O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)02:49:52 No.67744945 >>67744810 >>67744816 >>67744824 Other Space themes around that era include the Earth-based Space Port, Life on Mars, and Mars Mission. I don't feel strongly about including them in the "canon" but if I did they'd happen back in the Sol system in the pre-Futuron era, perhaps illustrating humanity's first attempts at interplanetary colonization and the subsequent discover of (an as-yet undefined method of) FTL travel. Life on Mars is about encountering peaceful Martians and Mars Mission is about a conflict with evil CrystAliens, so my thought is the Astronauts would stumble into this conflict, maybe re-awakening the very last surviving Martians and helping them defend against the CrystAliens... But since they don't share much in common with the pre-2000 era sets, visually OR thematically, that might just be a lore easter egg. Similarly, things like the Aquanauts are sci-fi underwater s--- but they come with Earth sharks and octopi, so l'd be inclined to keep them on Earth. Maybe throw Exo-Force in there too. O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)03:57:59 No.67745451 File: Bricks_n_Pieces_Summer 19(...).jpg (185 KB, 792x1117) >>67745270 Look at the art in the OP, and imagine the entire Lego SpaceVerse reimagined through that lens. Basically I'm treating it as a backdrop for a general scifi setting, which is to say that people are still flesh and blood and not made out of bricks. The "seriousness" I'd put somewhere around classic film serials and comics of the 1970s, or kids adventure cartoons from the 70s-90s. Futuron being a sort of morally ambiguous megacorp version of Star Trek's Federation. Which is to say, the setting takes itself seriously - but the content is closer to PG than R. That's really just my take on it, though. I'm claiming no ownership over this, and if you want to throw out your own ideas of "Grimdark Legoverse" or "Super Campy Extra Fun Block Space" I would absolutely encourage you to do that! >>67745217 Sure. Rule of thumb: If it's one of the Lego sets, it's in the universe (somewhere.) I haven't decided if I want this (pic related) lore from the old set catalogues to be canon or not, but generally it looks like Spyrius uses a lot of big robots and employs armies of smaller androids in their ranks. Perhaps they're part of a top-secret robotics project from the old Blacktron? Hmm, experimental rogue Al (and their human servants/employees/partners) could have been the incident that got Blacktron exposed in the first place.. but that runs the risk of making everything too inter-connected. Thoughts? O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)04:08:30 No.67745527 >67745451 honestly the whole concept of Spyrius (A place that's more or less a planet of criminals and spies existing without getting orbitially bombarded by the space police on the daily) is kind of silly in the first place, so I say take the complexity as far as you want. I can definitely see an antagonistic relationship between Spyrius and Blacktron going on though. Assuming Futron still has a major stock in the Space Police business, Spyrius would probably be paying some hefty bribes to keep the police from raiding them. (If that didn't make much sense forgive me I'm tired as s--- right now) O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)04:14:45 No.67745572 >>67744810 I seriously doubt I will be able to convince my group to do this, but it definitely piques my autism. I like that the setting is so vast, but the technology is at a 90's futurism level, rather than sci-fi magic. It appeals to me a lot more than 40wank or cybershit. It's funny that some obscure LEGO flavor text captures such an interesting space setting. My only concern is a lack of content, unless you were willing to break from the "lore" to make your own, which sort of takes away from the feeling that you're playing LEGOS with dice. For instance, what are the established planets/colonies in this setting? Aside from Spyrius and Ice Planet, are there any other named planets or stations? I really like that you can just play with LEGO figures and blocks instead of traditional miniatures and terrain. It makes it cheap and easy, as well as allowing for a much larger variety of scenarios as well as keeping the childish feel of playing with LEGOS. Feel free to dump more of the sets that are inspiring you. O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)04:18:51 No.67745608 >>67745451 >>67745527 >>67745571 Could also be one of those situations where everyone "knows" Spyrius are a bunch of spies and villains but on the surface they deny everything and are really good at making it impossible to actually prove, and no one will f--- with them openly because they have a giant army of robots and androids. O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)04:35:21 No.67745736 >>67745608 That was mostly the direction I was taking with Blacktron as the shady rival corp (neutral evil pretending to be true neutral), with Spyrius being more along the lines of the unambiguous "villains". I think Spyrius would be more defended by their robot army. People know they're bad but can't really catch them, and the magazine excerpts suggest they have spies everywhere. situation of their home base being hidden or inaccessible, and heavily >>67745549 Exactly this >>67745572 Actual, hard setting details I could definitely use some help fleshing out. There are a few things we can borrow; example, Spyrius was marketed as coming from a planet by the same name. Ice Planet was said to have taken place on a planet called Krysto-2002. Some of the sets have names, like Zenon Star Base. But the specifics of mapping the colonies isn't something I've tackled yet, or how the geopolitics or economy functions (outside of basic "megacorps and colonies" and "mining s---") I'm thinking the colonies exist in a small star cluster, where travel between planets takes hours and travel between stars takes days, but travel outside the colonies would take weeks, months, or years (to keep the setting relatively contained.) I don't know what form FTL travel should take though. As for content l'm approaching it from kind of a Star Wars angle; the "stuff" we see (in this case, lego sets) is indicative of the bigger world but only scratches the surface. So rather than there only being one Deep Freeze Defender operating as Ice Planet's mothership, there would be dozens, hundreds, or thousands of ships of that class. There'd be plenty of room to introduce new designs, or fill in the gaps between them (ie there are a bunch of starbase sets, but none of them have bunkrooms... so one would have to assume there are living habitats connected to them) It's past my bedtime so l'm probably gonna take a step back for now, but I eagerly encourage anyone to throw around ideas of their own! O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)13:45:59 No.67750971 File: explorienfossil.jpg (40 KB, 352x211) >>67746768 >>67746783 >>67746792 >>67746808 >>67746813 >>67746824 >>67746837 This is all incredible. Do you happen to have any of the writing saved from that thread? I'd love to revive/cannibalize anything else they were working on. >>67744824 >Most recently, the Explorien corporation has arrived to investigate newly uncovered alien artifacts. This will eventually lead them into conflict with the Zotaxians (aliens from the UFO sets, who are vicious conquerors) or into contact with the Holoxians (aliens from the Insectoids sets, who are refugees from the Zotaxians.) So their whole thing was "decoding" these Alien fossils. I only have the vaguest concept for what's so special about them. Maybe they fill the role of the generic precursor race? In any case they seem like an easy segue into the UFO sets as extragalactic invaders, the "big threat" lurking in the darkness. Old Lego lore has the UFO aliens and the Insectoids aliens coming from the same planet so currently I'm preserving that by having the latter be refugees on the run from the former. Our boys the Exploriens will probably be the ones who stumble upon whatever ANCIENT SECRET it is that draws the UFO guys into our little corner of the galaxy. >>67745939 I thought so too but it's not as many as I thought. Rock Raiders were after Energy Crystals, the Aquazone factions were after Hydrolator Crystals, and the Insectoids had their Voltstones. RoboForce had these weird 1x2 chips with a circuitry design that said "ROBO" on them (that they collected in their storage boxes) but I don't know what those were supposed to represent. Robobux? Anyway, there's a lot of gaps that could be filled, like WHY the different guys do what they do. Ice Planet stuff has a lot of rockets, and they're supposed to be testing satellites or something? Why do that on an ice planet? The big orange chainsaws are probably to cut through ice, but... if they're testing satellites, why are they cutting through ice? O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)13:51:42 No.67751066 File: Ufo_alien_black.jpg (109 KB, 920x690) >another art dump while l'm typing You guys are great >>67750971 (cont'd) Maybe there's something fucky with the ice planet's magnetic field (naturally occurring, or hidden alien macguffins under the surface) but that's all l've got right now. If anyone wants to help flesh out some of the factions, go wild! And Re:Exploriens, their gear was always identified as like... telescopes and sensors and s---, even though they look like big ol' lasers. I might treat them as being kind of Star Trek inspired where their gear is INTENDED for exploration, but nothing's stopping them from shunting tachyons into the chrono- resonator firing beams tiparticles or the f--- they gotta do if attacked. They're the "weird faction. O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)14:32:23 No.67751651 What if the orange transparent pieces are hard light? some sort of deployable chip that allows mass production/infinite use of necessary items? using the OP Image, the dude has a chainblade for ice clearing, skis, and a protective visor/HUD. Blacktron survived primarily on the recreation of Fultron quality level Lightchips using what they had managed to take with them after their speration from Fultron. This was blatantly done, but as Fultron developed farther and farther ahead in terms of quality and technical design, Fultron developed a near identical Lightchips system, giving off red light rather than orange. While there is no meaningful performance difference between the two, an individual's color hue is often all one needs to know about their personality. O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)14:42:48 No.67751792 >>67751651 some other thoughts that occured after posting >Hardlight tech is what allowed Fultron to defeat the economic challenge of mass supplying budding colonies? >Crystals mined >>67750971 are uniquely vital as refractory elements in making Hardlight. The rights to mine are held in a fragile compact between Fultron and M:Tron, alongside the RockRaider subsidiary tasked with asteroid mining. >Freelance Casters (Hardlight designer) operate amongst all factions, leading to most non aligned players within the intercorp Cold War being a piecemeal of various Lightchip ensembles >Hard Light being opposed by some other type of equally useful and cost effective tech, either by alien forces or another corp. I like my idea a lot obviously, but I think it is at the very least a good handwave to keep the spirit of the camp and 80's aesthetic of the transparent orange, neon green, and other color schemes in the sets O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)16:44:04 No.67753628 >>67751651 >>67751792 I'm of two minds about hardlight. On the one hand, it's a killer idea. Solid flavor and explains the translucent aesthetic. On the other hand, having it be easily toggleable kind of undermines a few things. I was hoping to preserve some hard sci-fi aesthetic, since everyone wears space suits and it seems like climate-controlled habitats are minimal. So it can't be a miracle technology that solves every problem. Also the sets themselves, the "hard light" pieces are on hinges and s--- (if they move) and I want to keep the setting closely inspired by the sets. But I have some workarounds... One, maybe those cockpits aren't MADE of hardlight, but are reinforced by it? So a scaffolding or a sheathe of regular sci-fi glass is supporting a reinforcing hardlight structure. Second, maybe Hardlight is persistent; you don't switch it on or off like a flashlight, you forge it in a factory. It's light weight and versatile and maybe still needs to be "plugged in" to a lightchip to stay coherent over time, but that would explain why, say, the ice planeteers have a rack on their snowmobiles to hang their hardlight skis rather than just switching them off. Maybe both? O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)16:53:33 No.67753770 >>67753628 The orange transparent gear kind of looks like the omniblade from Mass Effect 3, which was a melee weapon made from hardened omnigel (a technobabble material used for just about anything). Basically, when you needed the blade, you'd essentilly instantly 3D-print one, and while it would break after use you could generate a new one as long as you have a supply of omnigel. O Anonymous 08/10/19(Sat)19:19:31 No.67756196 >>67753628 >One, maybe those cockpits aren't MADE of hardlight, but are reinforced by it? So a scaffolding or a sheathe of regular sci-fi glass is supporting a reinforcing hardlight structure. Second, maybe Hardlight is persistent; you don't switch it on or off like a flashlight, you forge it in a factory. It's light weight and versatile and maybe still needs to be "plugged in" to a lightchip to stay coherent over time, but that would explain why, say, the ice planeteers have a rack on their snowmobiles to hang their hardlight skis rather than just switching them off. Maybe both? Sounds like the miracle material Stuhr from The Leeshore by Robert Reed. >Stuhr is superstrong to the point of being usable for things like space elevator cables or the walls of fusion reactors, but only as long as it has a slight electrical current running through it. Turn that off, it disintegrates into dust. O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)04:40:06 No.67763673 >>67753628 >>67756196 I like this thing of a super strong material that needs to be constantly powered or else disintegrate. O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)11:01:21 No.67767321 File: Fundemental building bloc(...).jpg (78 KB, 744x389) >>67746598 Jump gates would work quite well - you can fly about in your "local" space under your own power, but the only fast, safe way to travel long distance is to go through the gate. Of course, there are risks - the Gates work by breaking down what goes through them into their smallest components, then reassembling them on the other side. Sometimes it can take a very long time before a jumper to come back, and sometimes they come back... different. O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)12:34:48 No.67768539 File: 6704_Space_Explorers.jpg (62 KB, 412x271) >>67753770 >>67756196 >>67763673 >>67766981 Yeah, I definitely like HL as a concept but I think it needs to have some degree of permanence. I think having it switch on/off and/or being easily malleable, Green Lantern style, diverts away too much from the classic idea. I want to keep a version of it, though, so l'll post more about it shortly >>67767321 I like this. I like the subtle shoutout to being blocks. I think l'd make some handwave caveat that they only "mis-build" inorganic material, because the body horror of being rebuilt without your legs is darker than I was going for, but the very real risk of having your ship rebuilt missing a key component is perfect. Also, the Zotaxians (UFO) are said to come to "this galaxy" through a wormhole... so I'm gonna kitbash some lore about this. In fact... maybe Humans can't transport living material at all? I'll present two options in my momentary loredump. I really appreciate the help and the enthusiasm, everyone! O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)14:26:11 No.67770312 File: 1-45.jpg (84 KB, 400x400) >>67768539 Re: Hardlight Hardlight is a lightweight, resilient, and versatile glass-like material formed from coherent energy. It is the handwavium "miracle" material that is at the center of the science that makes the colonization of deep space possible. The early Futuron expeditions only possessed rudimentary hardlight technology (peep the Classic Space sets) but resources from the star cluster and advancements in technology have turned it into a part of everyday life. The fabrication of hardlight used to be a proprietary technology which only Futuron knew how to do, but the secrets of its manufacturer leaked after Blacktron was excised from the company. This in turn broke some of Futuron's hold on the colonies, as where once they had a monopoly on the sole piece of technology running the system, now other corporations have the opportunity to move in and rock the boat. But just because anybody can build hardlight, not everybody has the resources to do so, and not everybody can do it well. It takes large factories, powered by energy crystals, to create the base material. Futuron is still the top dog in the sector, and that's not likely to change. Hardlight itself energized. Separate a hardlight structure from its energy source and it will slowly weaken over the course of hours or days, shatter, and eventually dissipate back into pure light as the containment field destabilizes. This is why we can see hardlight tools being used without a power source or interface, but rarely see entire structures made of the material. (Editor's note: I like the idea of them being "loose bricks" instead of something that can be switched on and off) (1/5) semi-persistent. In its raw form, it is a malleable, viscous substance with little rigidity. It requires the application of... science beams... (A light quench?) to harden it into a persistent structure. Once "forged" and "quenched", Hardlight objects keep their shape as long as they remain O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)14:27:14 No.67770324 File: 6929_Box.jpg (257 KB, 868x533) >>67770312 (2/5) Hardlight can be repaired by re-energizing it with an energy beam the way one might use a welding torch to repair metal, able to consistently return to its full strength. It can be recycled and reshaped to form different structures, and while this is often less expensive than forging brand new structures, it requires time and special equipment and thus isn't possible to do in the field. Scavengers will often scour wreckage for still-coherent hardlight pieces, rushing to gather them before they dissipate, so they can resell them to hardlight reclaimers. This is the corporations try to discourage, because they can't tax it. practice that Re: Space travel Warp drives work by doing some science s--- with hardlight. Propulsion still happens neighboring star system. Travel back to inhabited Earth space takes decades. "real" space, but due to science fuckery still allows ships to reach faster-than-light speeds in open space. However, space is vast, and even the fastest warp ships can take several days to reach the closest Futuron created the first Jumpgate (Buildgate?) out of Earthspace. It operates much like >>67767321 suggests; by deconstructing an object into "pieces," beaming them through [brickspace], and reconstructing the object at the destination. This process is not infallible, but it cuts the travel time to the nearest inhabited star sector from decades down to months. The sole jumpgate in the colonies is run, of course, by Futuron, but they do license its use out to other corporations (and heavily tax it). If a corporation were to build another jumpgate, it could cause a massive paradigm shift in the balance of power. (Editor's note: I want to keep Earth and other inhabited space a distant thought, to keep the setting grounded in the colonies. Leaving the colonies and escaping the corporations is outside most people's means.) O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)14:28:57 No.67770353 File: Mm001.jpg (45 KB, 240x320) >>67770324 (3/5) *I'm thinking that gates can't transport living material at all, and are thus far only able to transport tools, supplies, and communications. The initial colonists only arrived via warp-powered sleeper ships, and now that they're here, there's no way to leave (or come back) without making another decades-long trek through empty space. New colony ships arrive every so often, but until the problem of shipping organics through buildgates is solved, for most people it becomes a one-way trip. Maybe just cut the warp travel down to a few years and gate travel to days/weeks... Idk. Re: Al Service robots are somewhat common. (If you look at the sets, there are quite a few that come with non-minifig robots.) Heuristic, adaptable, learning Androids are not. Spyrius was the first to crack the problem of a "smart" droid, and for years they were the only ones. There are even some rumors that they are lead by one such droid. The Explorien Corporation has recently rolled out their own model of highly advanced smart droid for use in their expeditions, though, and nobody else is quite sure how they managed to do it. (Editor: Spyrius and Exploriens were the only human sets to have android minifigs) Re: Aliens Humanity made first contact with extraterrestrial life over a century ago on their Mars colony. While much of that information has been classified (read: I cba), this is what is known: Martians were peaceful, technologically advanced, but dying. After establishing communication and sharing knowledge (such as the early secrets of Hardlight tech), the CRYSTALIENS ATTACKED. Crystaliens were a race of hard, translucent crystal beings that were just really, really rude. They waged war with Earth and the remnants of Martian civilization to settle an old grudge (some believe they were an artificial race created by the Martians themselves, made of actual living hardlight). In the end, Earth won, but both the Martians and Crystaliens were wiped out (.. or were they?) O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)14:30:12 No.67770377 File: Lego_Insectoids_Catalog.jpg (193 KB, 800x398) >>67770353 (4/5) What Earth learned from the conflict allowed Futuron to become the prevailing megacorp, and opened up the possibility of interstellar travel and eventually the construction of the first buildgate. MEANWHILE, IN ANOTHER GALAXY.. The aliens of Zotaxia waged a bloody civil war. The Zotaxians are another race of persistent, hardlight-based life forms with highly advanced technology. Being hardlight-based, they can travel through "buildspace" unhindered. A large faction of refugees from this civil war fled their home galaxy, and ended up in ours, building a new home beneath the surface of the planet Holoxia. Holoxia, on the surface, is a barren and rocky world... but underneath the crust are layers and layers of caverns surrounding an "inner sun". These caves maintain an ecosystem dominated by massive, hardlight-and-silicon- based insects (dubbed bilgen bugs). The Zotaxian refugees (now calling themselves Holoxians, subtly changed by the planet's energies) were forced to adapt to this new environment by repurposing their vehicles to mimic the forms of the bilgen bugs in order to traverse the subsurface world of Holoxia unmolested. Their vehicles are powered by Voltstones, energy crystals able to recharge themselves in the rays of the inner sun, designed to look like bilgenbug eggs so they may be placed and "charged" in the bug's nests unnoticed. The life of a Holoxian is tough and unforgiving, but it is a life free from their former oppressors. Or it has been, for the past several generations. But the Zotaxian military has never given up the search for their former enemies, and their General has recently arrived from their home galaxy to find them and bring them back under Zotaxian rule. (Zotaxians = UFO sets, Holoxians = Insectoids sets). It's only a matter of time before the General finds them.... or the colonies. O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)14:31:56 No.67770401 File: 6979.jpg (201 KB, 874x626) >>67770377 (5/5) The colonies are unaware of this, and of ANY extraterrestrial life for that matter. After the Mars conflicts, Humanity has not made first contact with any new civilizations. Recently, though, the Explorien Corporation has arrived in-system studying what appear to be strange alien fossils. The Exploriens seem more interested in peaceful exploration, but do they have a hidden motive? Their technology appears to be more advanced than that of Futuron and the other Corps. What's their real story? How did they break the secret of smart androids? And what's the story with these fossils? What aren't they telling? Those are things I figure are better as plot hooks, but I think in general terms: The fossils are of an older race (Perhaps Zotaxians? Perhaps precursors?) that are themselves a hardlight-silicon-based life. Studying the fossils are what broke the code of creating smart androids and unlocking new secrets to hardlight, and that's why the Exploriens are so good at it. Also, I think Spyrius was able to kitbash their droids together years ago this same way - perhaps after discovering and rebuilding wrecked Zotaxian/Insectoid techdroids. And perhaps that's why they're able to pump out robots like nobody's business. That's what I've got so far. As usual, comments, critiques, suggestions, etc. are all welcome; I consider this a community project more than "mine" and I wouldn't have come up with half of this if you guys hadn't shown up. Next I think l'll work on fleshing out individual factions, so get those ideas out there! Also, all terminology is pending... things like build gates etc are mostly placeholders O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)14:46:28 No.67770642 File: 6958_Android_Base.jpg (189 KB, 800x574) >>67770401 Miscellaneous s---: I should add, l'm envisioning the "colonies" being a collection of maybe a dozen stars, surrounding the central build gate (which is the most densely populated, and the seat of Futuron's strength). Further outward expansion is hindered only by supply lines to and from the build gate; uninhabited star systems aren't inaccessible, they're just further away. Planet Spyrius sits hidden at the "edge" of what is currently colonized. Holoxia is outside the colonies, but close enough that someone like the Exploriens could discover them. The Zotaxians are searching for them, and are likely to start a conflict with anybody else they encounter. Any conflict would inevitably spill into the colonies. But these are the "looming, mysterious threats" rather than the clear and present danger. Explorien Corp might have secret Crystaliens in captivity. Futuron might have secret Martians kept alive back home. Spyrius might be lead by a droid, and that droid might be a an ancient and malfunctioning/repaired Zotaxian (or Holoxian, or "unnamed precursor") techdroid. It might be pulling a Skynet- style long con against the colonies. Or none of these things are true, they're just some potential plot hooks. O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)16:56:57 No.67773015 The part about interstellar travel being relatively slow (minimum of months, if not years or decades) the stargates only being able to transport inorganic matter would explain how Spyrius is a thing. The planet could be located at the edges of explored space, making sending a force to wipe them out very difficult due to the sheer travel time involved. Possibly the exact location of the planet isn't even known. However, since inorganic matter can pass though gates without issues, the Spyrians could have contructed their own gate and use and use it to transport their androids. Since they're way ahead of most other factions in Al development (possibly due to finding some precursor technology on Spyrius), this gives them a major advantage. Aside from the obviously robotic androids, they probably also have ones designed to pass off as humans, which they use for espionage. The androids could infiltrate other organizations, steal data, and use the jump gates to escape back to their base without being able to be followed by the Space Police. O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)18:01:29 No.67774053 File: Interceptron Transformer.jpg (3.08 MB, 3507x2478) Ok, here we go This is the Spyrius Interceptron Droid, a roughly man sized infiltration-focussed droid with two modes. The first mode, traveling mode, takes the form of a miniature, 2 meter long spaceship. It's as fast as a standard spaceship and, due to being purely mechanical, can evade being discovered by bioscanners. It is designed to be a stealth spaceship mode, though newer radars can pick them up. hand-waved as the central navigation module). After traveling to its destination it can switch to humanoid mode to more easily navigate inside spaces. This mode is less agile and subtle than androids who possess just a humanoid mode, but the travel form allowing for quicker attacks and less chance to be discovered upon entry . If seen by the naked eye it is often mistaken for a normal sized spaceship and therefore expected to be farther away and not posing direct danger. (The cockpit being there doesn't make much sense other than to give it a Transformers look. It could be either ignored or be makes up for it. Humanoid form possess standard android intellect and multiple hacking and information-extraction programs and tools, as well as a self-destruction protocol, should the mission be a failure. Interceptrons can use weapons in this mode, but rarely come outfitted with them, due to already being clunky for an espionage android and being focussed on staying undiscovered anyway. I've always really like the angle of Spyrius being specialized in robots and androids and a shapechanging infiltration android just made sense to me. Also it fits quite well with the idea of Jumpgates only being able to transport non-biological matter, so Spyrius , as a sort of guerrilla spy group, had to resort to creating artificial minions to bolster their ranks quickly. O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)18:02:35 No.67774080 File: Spyrius tank1.jpg (775 KB, 1836x2199) Secondly, the Spyrius Tremor Tank. I imagine Spyrius having multiple hidden bases on and inside meteors and asteroids. There (and on Spyrius itself) these tanks can be found. They only ever get used in missions in the rarest of cases, mostly just being stored in the hangars of their bases. But in case of an all-out raid on the base itself these tanks, with the help of some airborne defenders, can keep the attackers at bay long enough for the crew inside the base to delete all sensitive information, flee the base and cover their tracks. O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)18:03:40 No.67774095 File: Spyrius tank3.jpg (1.89 MB, 3264x2448) Once the base is cleared of all crew and information, the cockpits of the tanks detach from their bases, the communication gear swings forward (improving the location and navigation functions) and the barrels swing back, becoming propulsion units. When the cockpit has shifted to escape-configuration, it gets sent encrypted space-locations of the course of the escape vessel with the rest of the crew and travels there. These escape pods reach extremely high speeds, but they can only travel for very short distances. I've always like the modular capabilities of many classic Lego sets and in a universe, where it is much easier to send inorganic material than crew members it seems logical most ships would have some sort of escape pod and in colonies there would be a very clear philosophy to accept material losses if it means there's a higher chance of lives being saved. O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)18:04:53 No.67774114 File: Ice Planet WIP.jpg (1.28 MB, 2663x2142) Lastly I have this very rough wip of an Ice Planet utility vehicle, because they are really lacking in that department. For the finished version the lower part would be much bigger in relation to the cockpit. I imagine this vehicle being accompanied by some other vehicle made for cutting ice blocks out of mountains and pic related then picking up those pieces and transporting them either to a research station (should they contain some sort of precious mineral or other interesting objects) or just dumping them somewhere. The combination of those vehicles would allow for quick tunnel building or maybe even excavating spaces for bases built into ice mountains. Also the resulting ice blocks could be used to build structures as well. O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)18:11:51 No.67774257 File: Desertron pics.png (2.04 MB, 1454x1088) Oh also this my silly OC faction „Desertron" Just a small crew that stranded on a planet mostly comprised of a barren desert and in search of water, which they carry in rounded canisters and use both for themselves and as fuel for their machines (No idea why they wouldn't use solar energy, it doesn't make sense at all). Also one crew member swears he saw insect like humanoid silhouettes in the distance, but surely that's just the heat... This doesn't really fit in any big canon, but it might be a neat plot hook for some small rescue mission adventure or just background fluff that never gets followed up on. I like the idea of there being a bunch of small independent spaceship crews, hoping to make a fortune by exploring planets ignored or not yet reached by the bigger corporations. O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)14:58:02 No.67770832 >>67770377 Weren't the Insectoids all humanoid with heavy cybernetic modification? O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)15:12:30 No.67771098 File: lego-ufo-alien-blue-minif(...).jpg (116 KB, 700x700) >>67770939 >>67770984 >>67771002 As opposed to >>67751066 and pic related. I'd actually make the Insectoids/Holoxians a completely separate "race" from the Zotaxians, maybe rather than escaping a civil war on their homeworld they're two species that shared the same system and the Zotaxians conquered them, and just have weird alien mentality where they don't take too kindly to the Holoxians "escaping" their empire. Or something. O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)16:02:55 No.67771996 >>67771098 The "original lore" called the UFO aliens Zotaxians, and ALSO called the Insectoid aliens Zotaxians that were "on the run from their evil leader". The two themes were not released concurrently, though, so it could have just been a recycled name. I took the opportunity to expand on it, expanding on the "on the run" bit... But I also forgot they were opaque. So let's switch it up. They're either another "caste", or a race that was subjugated. Maybe even the UFO Zotaxians are a construct race that took over, machine uprising style? O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)16:10:01 No.67772135 >>67771996 What if the Zotaxians weren't always cyborgs or hardlight and were once an organic species, but were once a single race that had to adapt to a drastic change to their home world, and one faction did so by becoming cybernetic, and the other by putting their consciousness into hardlight constructs? This could also be the source of the civil war (similar to Total Annihilation, one of the best RTSS of the 90s) O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)14:27:49 No.67770335 File: 6155-1[1].jpg (141 KB, 871x599) LEo SYSIEM What if I wanna have underwater adventures? O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)16:34:00 No.67772601 File: 6198-1.jpg (206 KB, 872x624) >>67770335 Perhaps the initial push for space colonisaiton came about because Earth suffered a catastrophic environmental collapse, complete with massive sea level rises. A few hardy souls remained on earth, eventually making use of the technological advances in power generation, hardlight and sealed environments to begin reclaiming the planet. In turn, the developments in deep sea habitats and diving vessels have allowed new colonies to be formed offworld on aquatic worlds which were formerly uninhabitable. Alongside the "official" underwater colonies, pirate raiders, scavengers and other, weirder factions have developed. O Anonymous 08/11/19(Sun)23:49:47 No.67779015 >>67770335 >>67772601 I like the idea of Hydronauts and Scorpions being divergent factions of the original Aquanaut explorers and colonizers, and the Aquashark dissidents who chaffed under the rule of their corporate transportation sponsors and the subsequent contracts of indentured labor. Over time ideological and philosophical divisions grew greater, until the discovery of energy crystals in deep ocean trenches (Later discovered to be a subterranean phenomenon that was pushed upwards as a result of plate tectonics. Developments in deep-earth mining technologies resulted in the establishment of the Rock Raiders, who came to public consciousness after the disappearance of one of their flagship vessels, the LMS Explorer, which to this day is one of the most famous unsolved mysteries of space exploration) ignited their animosity into full-blown conflict. On one side were the more technologically advanced, corporate-sponsored Hydronauts, who used liquid-breathing technology to enable abyssal-trench exploitation. Opposing them were the Stingrays, who engaged in full-blown genetic alteration to free themselves of their reliance on expensive off-world manufactured goods, the cost of which often resulted in divers taking on further debt before they had even repaid their initial transportation contract. O Anonymous 08/14/19(Wed)05:36:03 No.67817953 >>67744810 I'm gonna use this as a rough basis and expand it to include all the non-licensed space themes. Thanks OP. O Anonymous 08/14/19(Wed)08:26:46 No.67819272 >>67744810 What about the medieval sets ? O Anonymous 08/14/19(Wed)12:27:29 No.67822196 >>67819272 They are far too removed from this and would work better as their own world. O Whiteagle 08/14/19(Wed)14:56:37 No.67824226 File: 37058628275_1a453b2e97_o.jpg (1.9 MB, 2275x2945) >>67822196 >they are far too removed from this and would work better as their own world. As in literally their own entire World, bootstrapped by stranded Spacers into a Techno-Fantasy land! O Anonymous 08/15/19(Thu)09:06:48 No.67836529 >>67744810 This post reminded me of the insane canon I had for all my LEGO sets back in the day. I think I set the whole story on Ice-Planet but I needed an explanation as to why they never left so Ice Planet was actually a giant planet the size of a solar system with several small stars orbiting it for light(I was a kid so forgive my scientific ignorance) and there were "Gravity Sinks" where all the gravity of the planet was concentrated leaving only regular earth normal gravity everywhere else. The Ice Planet people were a faction who were able to survive long periods in the ice, everyone else was trying to stay alive by going really fast or building giant ships to stay warm, the robot-heads(my autistic brother ate almost all of the heads of my early LEGO mini-figs so I stuck various parts on them to make them robots) were a faction allied with the Ice Planet characters. Blacktron and Spyrius(who had a few specific robot-minifigs who were evil) were the bad guys and the Robots(big non-minifig robots I made from some random Technic sets) were against everyone. The Space Police were good guys stranded on the planet trying to establish law and order but needed the Ice Planet factions resources to survive. The Exploriens could actually escape the planets gravity but stayed looking for alien tech that everyone was after. There was a bounty hunter I had who was an early Space Police mini-fig I got years after Space Police was upgraded, he hated one of the Insect-people and some other character I can't remember but he was also evil and had a weird face under his mask. I took a lot of inspiration from He-Man as I recall. I played in that world nearly every day for about five-six years and l'd forgotten all about it, never even wrote it down. It's nice to go back to a place like that even if only for a few minutes, thanks Anon. LEGOLAND](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/276/011/905.png)
![O Anonymous 09/06/16(Tue)01:08:07 No.49199048 >>49199144 >>49199177 >>49199238 >>49199424 >>49187332 (OP) Look, I've been giving it some thought, and here's how things would go down. - USS Enterprise, captain Jean-luc Picard - ISD Avenger, captain Lorth Needa - I don't know any Imperium ship names or captains, so let's just call this The Righteous Endeavor, captained by Lord Aurelius Quartus Maximus. 0. PROLOGUE All three ships appear in the same star system apropos nothing, equidistant from each other, about 1,000,000 km from each other. Within seconds all three ships realize that they have entered a completely new galaxy - the stars are wrong, the pulsars are wrong, etc. However on the Avenger, Captain Needa is informed that the galaxy is still seeded with hyperspace beacons, allowing FTL travel. He is also contacted by A Force (not THE Force) telling him that he doesn't get to leave until the battle is over. Warhammer 40000 Imperium of Man Mars-Class Battlecruiser Over on the Righteous Endeavor, Lord Aurelius is contacted by THE EMPEROR HIMSELF. HE HAS RETURNED GLORIOUSLY AND UNDOUBTEDLY. The EMPEROR requires of His servant that he emerge Triumphant in Battle against the offensive ships that have occupied His space. He has created a Grand Arena for Lord Aurelius and his crew. Aurelius, teary-eyed, thanks THE EMPEROR for this chance to bask in His glory, and sets out immediately. 5100 meters Over on the Enterprise, f------ Q shows up again and explains the situation with his usual panache and flair: the three ships have to fight. Picard refuses on moral grounds, but Q manages to convince him that if he just plays his little game then regardless of if Picard wins or loses the Enterprise and her crew will be returned safely. Otherwise they better get used to the empty galaxy they'll be living in now. The stage is set. Round 1. FIGHT. O Anonymous 09/06/16(Tue)01:19:55 No.49199238 >49199386 Star Trek United Federation of Planets Galaxy Class 642 meters >>49199048 1. FIRST ENCOUNTERS The Avenger detects the Enterprise and the Righteous Endeavor. The Enterprise would likely be easier to destroy, but the Righteous Endeavor has set course for the Avenger and begins closing. Needa orders the Avenger to engage the Righteous Endeavor first, and launches TIE/In fighters and TIE bombers to deal with the Enterprise. The Righteous Endeavor opens fire first, her weapons outranging the Avenger by a significant margin. However this proves to be a boon, as Star Wars sensors, while not the best, are still capable of detecting incoming fire. The Avenger begins evasive maneuvers while putting distance between itself and the Righteous Endeavor, looking to keep several light-seconds between itself and the Mars-class ship while Needa tries to come up with some strategy. Star Wars Galactic Empire Over at the Enterprise, meanwhile, Picard has the incoming TIE fighters and bombers analyzed. The lasers on the ships are negligible threats, but the proton torpedoes are much more respectable. However the ships are *painfully* slow. Still not on-board with fighting people for Q's amusement, Picard orders the Enterprise to simply engage impulse and avoid fighting the TIES while he thinks. Imperial-I Class Destroyer 1600 meters That's when the Righteous Endeavor begins opening fire. The Imperium warship is scanned and its weapons are found to be horrifyingly powerful, while its armor is impossibly thick and sturdy. Phasers and photon torpedoes will likely be ineffective. A follow-up scan of the Avenger, meanwhile, has Picard learn that the turbolasers on the ISD are far more powerful than those on the TIES or the Enterprise, though still lacking when compared to the Righteous Endeavor. However, the Righteous Endeavor is noted to be ANCIENT. It should arguably be even more powerful, but the ship is, as near as Cmdr. Data can tell, held together by what amounts to duct tape and good intentions. Enterprise also notes the Avenger's hyperspace drive, and the hyperspace beacons throughout the galaxy. O Anonymous 09/06/16(Tue)01:32:35 No.49199386 >>49199559 >>49199575 File: 2a4dfe0d086d01b9e5eecde9d(..).jpg (19 KB, 564x548) >>49199238 2. FIRST CONTACT The Righteous Endeavor and the Avenger are capable of roughly the same sublight speeds, so the battle is going precisely nowhere. Needa orders the Avenger to engage in a short hyperspace jump to the system's periphery while he thinks things over. The Righteous Endeavor's weapons are extremely powerful, and he doubts that the Avenger could take much more than three or four hits - less, if the shield generators are hit. Over on the Righteous Endeavor, Lord Aurelius rejoices at the Avenger's flight, although he is troubled by the speed at which it occurs. This battle in the EMPEROR'S name is looking like it might actually require some time to complete. He is even more troubled when the Enterprise seemingly displays the same capabilities to just MOVE impossibly fast. On the Enterprise, Picard hails the Righteous Endeavor and the Avenger. He makes note of the fact that fighting for the amusement of Q will get them exactly nowhere, and do they really want to? Lord Aurelius' response is somewhat less than becoming of a person of his station, but then again he is currently in the grip of holy righteousness for this glorious crusade. Captain Needa, on the other hand, is somewhat more amicable, noting that the Enterprise is capable of tactical FTL speeds that the Empire would kill to have. Picard similarly compliments the Avenger's hyperspace drive. Seeing as the Righteous Endeavor is still moving at painfully slow sublight speeds, Picard suggests that they meet up at a location 30 AU away to hash things out, and Needa agrees. The Avenger and the Enterprise meet up, the Avenger taking the opportunity to collect its TIES. They discuss the situation: every attempt to talk to the Righteous Endeavor is rebuffed by religious fanaticism. Picard doesn't want to kill ever if it can be avoided; Needa is less squeamish but still has nothing invested in this fight. Both agree, then, that the Righteous Endeavor needs to be dealt with first. O Anonymous 09/06/16(Tue)01:45:29 No.49199559 ► >49199600 >>49199689 File: Jean-Luc-Picard-jean-luc-(.Lipg (96 KB, 694x530) >>49199386 3. BATTLE PLANS Picard fills in Needa on Q and the fact that he's most likely behind this whole thing, posing as the EMPEROR to get Aurelius to do what he wants. Needa is none to pleased at being used. Needa is also surprised when Picard openly tells him that the Enterpise's weapons are simply not a match for the Avenger's, although the Avenger's weapons are probably not capable of getting through the Enterprise's robust shield, at least not without effort. They don't spend too much time d----waving, however, because the Righteous Endeavor is still closing. Picard explains the plan: Retrofit turbolasers from the Avenger onto the Enterprise. Its superior tactical speed and maneuverability will allow it to pound open the Righteous Endeavor's hull. Needa, however, flatly refuses: if weapons are where Enterprise is weak, why would Needa give the Enterprise a means to take down the Avenger? He suggests instead retrofitting the Avenger with a warp drive. However this presents a number of problems of its own, mostly the time and the materials needed to do so. A compromise is reached: the TIE/In and TIE bombers can be retrofitted with warp drives from the Enterprise's photon torpedoes. These same warp drives can be used to power turbolasers that will be retrofitted onto them, while gravity plating made by the Enterprise - a technology Earth has had from the 1990s - will essentially negate G-force issues on the TIES. This will, of course, take several days or weeks, potentially even months of work. But the Enterprise and the Avenger have time: the Righteous Endeavor is slow, the Avenger can go up to 2 years without resupply, and the Enterprise, up to 10. So everything's looking good. Both set off for the nearest star system, 5 lightyears away, to begin their work. Avenger arrives there basically instantly; it will take the Enterprise a few days to catch up. ] Anonymous 09/06/16(Tue)01:56:48 No.49199689 ► >>49199829 e: 4b58b1464115984c8bb7207c9(.)Lipg (67 KB, 736x493) >>49199559 4. FOR THE EMPEROR Lord Aurelius is furious, but unsurprised, at the cowardly retreat of the EMPEROR's enemies. As soon as the Righteous Endeavor has mostly cleared the initial system, he orders his ship to enter the Warp to pursue, guessing the enemy ships' destination based on their flight path. The appropriate sacrifices and supplications are made, and the ship enters the Warp..and it is *quiet*. There are no daemons, no screaming horrors, no twisted, formless morass of decay and rage and excess and keikaku. There is only the guiding Beacon, the EMPEROR guiding his children even in this strange arena! REJOICE! The Enterprise, thanks to its FTL sensors, notices the Righteous Endeavor disappearing and realizes its mistake: the ship DOES have FTL capabilities. Picard contacts Needa with this information, just in time, as the Righteous Endeavor emerges from the Warp almost on top of the Avenger, opening fire even as it does. The Avenger manages to make a hasty retreat into hyperspace, but not before suffering significant damage and casualties. The Avenger flees thousands of lightyears and begins attempting to affect repairs. Noticing that the Righteous Endeavor did not engage its FTL drive until they were at the edge of the previous system, he orders the Avenger to head deep into the star system it ends up in, correctly guessing the limitations of the Warp. Over on the Enterprise, the Federation vessel has completely lost track of the Avenger and is in interstellar space, vulnerable to attack from the Righteous Endeavor. However, the attack doesn't manifest, and Picard realizes that - like the Ferengi that he engaged so long ago on the Stargazer - the Righteous Endeavor does not have FTL sensors. But without the Avenger's weapons, how will they defeat the Righteous Endeavor? I Anonymous 09/06/16(Tue)02:09:36 No.49199829 ► >>49199845 >>49199875 >>49199942 File: Spoiler Image (78 KB, 694x530) >>49199689 5. RESPITE The Avenger affects repairs in a far away system. Raw materials are not hard to find, but refining them into a useful state will take weeks. Furthermore, they have lost contact with the Enterprise and don't know how to contact it - or, for that matter, the Righteous Endeavor - again. There is literally an entire galaxy of hundreds of billions of stars to search, and while the Enterprise's FTL is inferior to those, it is still going to create an ever-larger search area hundreds of lightyears wide - assuming that it hasn't been destroyed. Lord Aurelius of the Righteous Endeavor both rejoices and laments. Were this a normal battle, he would have driven the EMPEROR'S enemies into retreat and could have been said to won the day. But this is not a normal battle. The EMPEROR'S enemies must be crushed underfoot! The Enterprise dithers about. It is incapable of engaging the Righteous Endeavor directly, but they can at least scan it and learn more about it, as well as work on plans for how to retrofit Federation technology with Imperial tech. They also need to find some way of contacting the Avenger, wherever it went. Naturally, it's Wesley Crusher who comes up with a way to do that. Because of course it is. The hyperspace beacons that Enterprise detected are constantly sending FTL signals between each other. If they can approach one and learn how it works, they might be able to send their own signals through it. If the Avenger is connected to it, then it willI be able to pick up the signal, kind of like a spider noticing the vibrations in its web. The Enterprise tests this, and discovers it to be true. Contact is reestablished with the Avenger, and the engineering departments of both ships begin coordinating as best they can across the void. Anonymous 09/06/16(Tue)02:18:43 No.49199942 ► >>49199985 >>49200046 e: Brazen.jpg (869 KB, 1509x992) >>49199829 6. THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK After several weeks - with Lord Aurelius pulling his hair out of his head in frustration all the while, unable to detect the EMPEROR'S enemies and so serve as a conduit for His righteous fury - the Avenger and the Enterprise once again meet up and begin the process of retrofitting TIE fighters and bombers, using the Avenger's expansive hanger bay for the most part. One would think that this would be difficult, but it turns out not to be. Starfleet engineers are basically wizards, while the Avenger is the end result of more than 25,000 years of technological advancement geared towards ease of use: even a penniless smuggler can understand how a starship functions and keep it running, nevermind the best and brightest of the Empire's engineering corps (if Needa says so himself). The TIE/w fighters are field-tested and found to work quite well. Several kinks are identified, fixed, and tested once more: again, both ships are capable of operating for years without resupply. And at long last, the battle begins once again. It stars with the Avenger dropping out of hyperspace and rapidly deploying the TIE/w fighters. Due to the power needed to supply their retrofitted turbolasers, the TIE/ws are only capable of Warp 3, 4 in a pinch - but that is still far, far faster than the Righteous Endeavor can deal with. The TIE/ws literally fly circles around the Righteous Endeavor, its weapons unable to lock-on to the small, nimble craft. The turbolasers that have been outfitted onto them are still inferior to Imperium weapons overall, but when you have 72 of the buggers all firing continuously at one spot, they'll cause a hull breach eventually. O Anonymous 09/06/16(Tue)02:28:40 No.49200046 >49200109 >>49200131 File: 2285030-enterprise_meet_s(..).jpg (132 KB, 800x600) >>49199942 7. THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS That is exactly what happens. It's a battle that takes hours, but for the TIE/w pilots it's more like a chore than a struggle. The Enterprise had identified a relatively weak spot in the Righteous Endeavor's armor (most likely caused by age and inefficient repairs - it's almost like the Righteous Endeavor's crew don't really know how their own technology works) and the TIE/w pilots just pound away until the armor opens up, at which point they cut loose with proton torpedoes into the breach; the Enterprise shows up to add its own photon torpedoes to the mix. As thick as the armor of the Righteous Endeavor is on the outside, the inside is far less sturdy. The ship is crippled. Picard contacts the Righteous Endeavor, offering surrender to Lord Aurelius. Lord Aurelius only screams "for the EMPEROR!" and orders his ship to go full-speed at Avenger and Enterprise. This attack, however, proves fruitless. The TIE/ws and the Enterprise finish off the Emperor's ship, which is lost with all hands. Needa contacts Picard and thanks him for his help, but notes that he is now in possession of TIE/ws with weapons and FTL capable of meaningfully engaging the Enterprise. He regrets what will have to happen next, but his crew does have families back home. Picard notes that the Enterprise's crew also has families back home, and so doesn't like the thought of dying. Instead.. Picard offers the unconditional surrender of the Enterprise and her crew. If Captain Needa accepts, he will have "won" the three-way engagement, thereby allowing it to end without a need for any further bloodshed. Lorth Needa is the epitome of the best of the Empire's training - an officer and a gentlemen. He accepts the Enterprise's surrender. O Anonymous 09/06/16(Tue)02:35:12 No.49200131 ► File: Q_in_Judge_Robes_(Star_Tr(.).jpg (34 KB, 640x480) >>49200046 Suddenly, there is a flash - and the Enterprise re-appears in the Milky Way, the Avenger in the Galaxy Far Far Away, and the Righteous Endeavor in the 40k Milky Way. Q appears on the bridge of the Enterprise, noting that what Picard did almost feels like cheating and he probably shouldn't have let him get off that easily. Picard, however, notes that he's grown used to Q by now. Humanity is learning and growing all the time - more importantly, Picard remembers the last time that Q tried to teach him about humility. Although, speaking of... "It's not like you to repeat a lesson, Q," Picard notes. "What was the point of all this? What were you trying to make us prove this time?" "You?" Q asks. "Oh, Jean-luc. The world doesn't revolve around your shining head, no matter what you think. You can try and puzzle out why, if you like, but sometimes there just isn't anything to learn." Q disappears in a flash, and the end credits roll. Meanwhile, across time and space, in some otherdimensional weirdness, Tzeentch hands Q $2.50, noting that while the Imperium lost, the Federation didn't win, and so he doesn't owe Q the full $5. * O Anonymous 09/06/16(Tue)02:47:01 No.49200227 >>49200243 >>49200257 >>49200264 File: Untitled.png (74 KB, 334x258) >>49200109 WHY THE IMPERIUM LOST I don't see how an average, or even exceptional, psyker can detect something thousands of lightyears away (Avenger), and even if they could both Enterprise and Avenger had ways of avoiding the Righteous Endeavor anyway (Enterprise is just plain faster at tactical speeds; the Avenger was deep insystem and so would detect Righteous Endeavor arriving insystem and be able to make a quick retreat since they're not nearly as restricted by gravity wells). Imperium starfighters were irrelevant here. They never engaged TIE/Ins or TIE bombers, and would be no more capable of responding to TIE/ws than the Righteous Endeavor would be. The Imperium has no sensor tech worth noting. By comparison the Enterprise's sensor tech is some of the best in all of science fiction. The Imperium has actually forgotten how to build or maintain a huge portion of its technology. By comparison the crew of an Imperial Star Destroyer can be presumed to be roughly as component in maintenance as the crew of a US naval vessel, while the Federation's engineers are continuously noted as being "wizards" as technology. Note that transporters were not even once brought up in this whole thing, despite them opening up a huge tactical advantage for the Enterprise. Finally..the Empire is willing to work with others when need be. The Federation has working with others as one of its principle tenets. The Imperium, meanwhile, xenophobic to its core and utterly incapable of working with others except in exceptional circumstances. Any three-way fight between the Empire, the Federation, and the Imperium is going to see the Federation and the Empire teaming up and pooling resources simply as a matter of course. SPOILERS](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/002/268/398/b39.png)
![O Anonymous 09/06/16(Tue)01:08:07 No.49199048 >>49199144 >>49199177 >>49199238 >>49199424 >>49187332 (OP) Look, I've been giving it some thought, and here's how things would go down. - USS Enterprise, captain Jean-luc Picard - ISD Avenger, captain Lorth Needa - I don't know any Imperium ship names or captains, so let's just call this The Righteous Endeavor, captained by Lord Aurelius Quartus Maximus. 0. PROLOGUE All three ships appear in the same star system apropos nothing, equidistant from each other, about 1,000,000 km from each other. Within seconds all three ships realize that they have entered a completely new galaxy - the stars are wrong, the pulsars are wrong, etc. However on the Avenger, Captain Needa is informed that the galaxy is still seeded with hyperspace beacons, allowing FTL travel. He is also contacted by A Force (not THE Force) telling him that he doesn't get to leave until the battle is over. Warhammer 40000 Imperium of Man Mars-Class Battlecruiser Over on the Righteous Endeavor, Lord Aurelius is contacted by THE EMPEROR HIMSELF. HE HAS RETURNED GLORIOUSLY AND UNDOUBTEDLY. The EMPEROR requires of His servant that he emerge Triumphant in Battle against the offensive ships that have occupied His space. He has created a Grand Arena for Lord Aurelius and his crew. Aurelius, teary-eyed, thanks THE EMPEROR for this chance to bask in His glory, and sets out immediately. 5100 meters Over on the Enterprise, f------ Q shows up again and explains the situation with his usual panache and flair: the three ships have to fight. Picard refuses on moral grounds, but Q manages to convince him that if he just plays his little game then regardless of if Picard wins or loses the Enterprise and her crew will be returned safely. Otherwise they better get used to the empty galaxy they'll be living in now. The stage is set. Round 1. FIGHT. O Anonymous 09/06/16(Tue)01:19:55 No.49199238 >49199386 Star Trek United Federation of Planets Galaxy Class 642 meters >>49199048 1. FIRST ENCOUNTERS The Avenger detects the Enterprise and the Righteous Endeavor. The Enterprise would likely be easier to destroy, but the Righteous Endeavor has set course for the Avenger and begins closing. Needa orders the Avenger to engage the Righteous Endeavor first, and launches TIE/In fighters and TIE bombers to deal with the Enterprise. The Righteous Endeavor opens fire first, her weapons outranging the Avenger by a significant margin. However this proves to be a boon, as Star Wars sensors, while not the best, are still capable of detecting incoming fire. The Avenger begins evasive maneuvers while putting distance between itself and the Righteous Endeavor, looking to keep several light-seconds between itself and the Mars-class ship while Needa tries to come up with some strategy. Star Wars Galactic Empire Over at the Enterprise, meanwhile, Picard has the incoming TIE fighters and bombers analyzed. The lasers on the ships are negligible threats, but the proton torpedoes are much more respectable. However the ships are *painfully* slow. Still not on-board with fighting people for Q's amusement, Picard orders the Enterprise to simply engage impulse and avoid fighting the TIES while he thinks. Imperial-I Class Destroyer 1600 meters That's when the Righteous Endeavor begins opening fire. The Imperium warship is scanned and its weapons are found to be horrifyingly powerful, while its armor is impossibly thick and sturdy. Phasers and photon torpedoes will likely be ineffective. A follow-up scan of the Avenger, meanwhile, has Picard learn that the turbolasers on the ISD are far more powerful than those on the TIES or the Enterprise, though still lacking when compared to the Righteous Endeavor. However, the Righteous Endeavor is noted to be ANCIENT. It should arguably be even more powerful, but the ship is, as near as Cmdr. Data can tell, held together by what amounts to duct tape and good intentions. Enterprise also notes the Avenger's hyperspace drive, and the hyperspace beacons throughout the galaxy. O Anonymous 09/06/16(Tue)01:32:35 No.49199386 >>49199559 >>49199575 File: 2a4dfe0d086d01b9e5eecde9d(..).jpg (19 KB, 564x548) >>49199238 2. FIRST CONTACT The Righteous Endeavor and the Avenger are capable of roughly the same sublight speeds, so the battle is going precisely nowhere. Needa orders the Avenger to engage in a short hyperspace jump to the system's periphery while he thinks things over. The Righteous Endeavor's weapons are extremely powerful, and he doubts that the Avenger could take much more than three or four hits - less, if the shield generators are hit. Over on the Righteous Endeavor, Lord Aurelius rejoices at the Avenger's flight, although he is troubled by the speed at which it occurs. This battle in the EMPEROR'S name is looking like it might actually require some time to complete. He is even more troubled when the Enterprise seemingly displays the same capabilities to just MOVE impossibly fast. On the Enterprise, Picard hails the Righteous Endeavor and the Avenger. He makes note of the fact that fighting for the amusement of Q will get them exactly nowhere, and do they really want to? Lord Aurelius' response is somewhat less than becoming of a person of his station, but then again he is currently in the grip of holy righteousness for this glorious crusade. Captain Needa, on the other hand, is somewhat more amicable, noting that the Enterprise is capable of tactical FTL speeds that the Empire would kill to have. Picard similarly compliments the Avenger's hyperspace drive. Seeing as the Righteous Endeavor is still moving at painfully slow sublight speeds, Picard suggests that they meet up at a location 30 AU away to hash things out, and Needa agrees. The Avenger and the Enterprise meet up, the Avenger taking the opportunity to collect its TIES. They discuss the situation: every attempt to talk to the Righteous Endeavor is rebuffed by religious fanaticism. Picard doesn't want to kill ever if it can be avoided; Needa is less squeamish but still has nothing invested in this fight. Both agree, then, that the Righteous Endeavor needs to be dealt with first. O Anonymous 09/06/16(Tue)01:45:29 No.49199559 ► >49199600 >>49199689 File: Jean-Luc-Picard-jean-luc-(.Lipg (96 KB, 694x530) >>49199386 3. BATTLE PLANS Picard fills in Needa on Q and the fact that he's most likely behind this whole thing, posing as the EMPEROR to get Aurelius to do what he wants. Needa is none to pleased at being used. Needa is also surprised when Picard openly tells him that the Enterpise's weapons are simply not a match for the Avenger's, although the Avenger's weapons are probably not capable of getting through the Enterprise's robust shield, at least not without effort. They don't spend too much time d----waving, however, because the Righteous Endeavor is still closing. Picard explains the plan: Retrofit turbolasers from the Avenger onto the Enterprise. Its superior tactical speed and maneuverability will allow it to pound open the Righteous Endeavor's hull. Needa, however, flatly refuses: if weapons are where Enterprise is weak, why would Needa give the Enterprise a means to take down the Avenger? He suggests instead retrofitting the Avenger with a warp drive. However this presents a number of problems of its own, mostly the time and the materials needed to do so. A compromise is reached: the TIE/In and TIE bombers can be retrofitted with warp drives from the Enterprise's photon torpedoes. These same warp drives can be used to power turbolasers that will be retrofitted onto them, while gravity plating made by the Enterprise - a technology Earth has had from the 1990s - will essentially negate G-force issues on the TIES. This will, of course, take several days or weeks, potentially even months of work. But the Enterprise and the Avenger have time: the Righteous Endeavor is slow, the Avenger can go up to 2 years without resupply, and the Enterprise, up to 10. So everything's looking good. Both set off for the nearest star system, 5 lightyears away, to begin their work. Avenger arrives there basically instantly; it will take the Enterprise a few days to catch up. ] Anonymous 09/06/16(Tue)01:56:48 No.49199689 ► >>49199829 e: 4b58b1464115984c8bb7207c9(.)Lipg (67 KB, 736x493) >>49199559 4. FOR THE EMPEROR Lord Aurelius is furious, but unsurprised, at the cowardly retreat of the EMPEROR's enemies. As soon as the Righteous Endeavor has mostly cleared the initial system, he orders his ship to enter the Warp to pursue, guessing the enemy ships' destination based on their flight path. The appropriate sacrifices and supplications are made, and the ship enters the Warp..and it is *quiet*. There are no daemons, no screaming horrors, no twisted, formless morass of decay and rage and excess and keikaku. There is only the guiding Beacon, the EMPEROR guiding his children even in this strange arena! REJOICE! The Enterprise, thanks to its FTL sensors, notices the Righteous Endeavor disappearing and realizes its mistake: the ship DOES have FTL capabilities. Picard contacts Needa with this information, just in time, as the Righteous Endeavor emerges from the Warp almost on top of the Avenger, opening fire even as it does. The Avenger manages to make a hasty retreat into hyperspace, but not before suffering significant damage and casualties. The Avenger flees thousands of lightyears and begins attempting to affect repairs. Noticing that the Righteous Endeavor did not engage its FTL drive until they were at the edge of the previous system, he orders the Avenger to head deep into the star system it ends up in, correctly guessing the limitations of the Warp. Over on the Enterprise, the Federation vessel has completely lost track of the Avenger and is in interstellar space, vulnerable to attack from the Righteous Endeavor. However, the attack doesn't manifest, and Picard realizes that - like the Ferengi that he engaged so long ago on the Stargazer - the Righteous Endeavor does not have FTL sensors. But without the Avenger's weapons, how will they defeat the Righteous Endeavor? I Anonymous 09/06/16(Tue)02:09:36 No.49199829 ► >>49199845 >>49199875 >>49199942 File: Spoiler Image (78 KB, 694x530) >>49199689 5. RESPITE The Avenger affects repairs in a far away system. Raw materials are not hard to find, but refining them into a useful state will take weeks. Furthermore, they have lost contact with the Enterprise and don't know how to contact it - or, for that matter, the Righteous Endeavor - again. There is literally an entire galaxy of hundreds of billions of stars to search, and while the Enterprise's FTL is inferior to those, it is still going to create an ever-larger search area hundreds of lightyears wide - assuming that it hasn't been destroyed. Lord Aurelius of the Righteous Endeavor both rejoices and laments. Were this a normal battle, he would have driven the EMPEROR'S enemies into retreat and could have been said to won the day. But this is not a normal battle. The EMPEROR'S enemies must be crushed underfoot! The Enterprise dithers about. It is incapable of engaging the Righteous Endeavor directly, but they can at least scan it and learn more about it, as well as work on plans for how to retrofit Federation technology with Imperial tech. They also need to find some way of contacting the Avenger, wherever it went. Naturally, it's Wesley Crusher who comes up with a way to do that. Because of course it is. The hyperspace beacons that Enterprise detected are constantly sending FTL signals between each other. If they can approach one and learn how it works, they might be able to send their own signals through it. If the Avenger is connected to it, then it willI be able to pick up the signal, kind of like a spider noticing the vibrations in its web. The Enterprise tests this, and discovers it to be true. Contact is reestablished with the Avenger, and the engineering departments of both ships begin coordinating as best they can across the void. Anonymous 09/06/16(Tue)02:18:43 No.49199942 ► >>49199985 >>49200046 e: Brazen.jpg (869 KB, 1509x992) >>49199829 6. THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK After several weeks - with Lord Aurelius pulling his hair out of his head in frustration all the while, unable to detect the EMPEROR'S enemies and so serve as a conduit for His righteous fury - the Avenger and the Enterprise once again meet up and begin the process of retrofitting TIE fighters and bombers, using the Avenger's expansive hanger bay for the most part. One would think that this would be difficult, but it turns out not to be. Starfleet engineers are basically wizards, while the Avenger is the end result of more than 25,000 years of technological advancement geared towards ease of use: even a penniless smuggler can understand how a starship functions and keep it running, nevermind the best and brightest of the Empire's engineering corps (if Needa says so himself). The TIE/w fighters are field-tested and found to work quite well. Several kinks are identified, fixed, and tested once more: again, both ships are capable of operating for years without resupply. And at long last, the battle begins once again. It stars with the Avenger dropping out of hyperspace and rapidly deploying the TIE/w fighters. Due to the power needed to supply their retrofitted turbolasers, the TIE/ws are only capable of Warp 3, 4 in a pinch - but that is still far, far faster than the Righteous Endeavor can deal with. The TIE/ws literally fly circles around the Righteous Endeavor, its weapons unable to lock-on to the small, nimble craft. The turbolasers that have been outfitted onto them are still inferior to Imperium weapons overall, but when you have 72 of the buggers all firing continuously at one spot, they'll cause a hull breach eventually. O Anonymous 09/06/16(Tue)02:28:40 No.49200046 >49200109 >>49200131 File: 2285030-enterprise_meet_s(..).jpg (132 KB, 800x600) >>49199942 7. THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS That is exactly what happens. It's a battle that takes hours, but for the TIE/w pilots it's more like a chore than a struggle. The Enterprise had identified a relatively weak spot in the Righteous Endeavor's armor (most likely caused by age and inefficient repairs - it's almost like the Righteous Endeavor's crew don't really know how their own technology works) and the TIE/w pilots just pound away until the armor opens up, at which point they cut loose with proton torpedoes into the breach; the Enterprise shows up to add its own photon torpedoes to the mix. As thick as the armor of the Righteous Endeavor is on the outside, the inside is far less sturdy. The ship is crippled. Picard contacts the Righteous Endeavor, offering surrender to Lord Aurelius. Lord Aurelius only screams "for the EMPEROR!" and orders his ship to go full-speed at Avenger and Enterprise. This attack, however, proves fruitless. The TIE/ws and the Enterprise finish off the Emperor's ship, which is lost with all hands. Needa contacts Picard and thanks him for his help, but notes that he is now in possession of TIE/ws with weapons and FTL capable of meaningfully engaging the Enterprise. He regrets what will have to happen next, but his crew does have families back home. Picard notes that the Enterprise's crew also has families back home, and so doesn't like the thought of dying. Instead.. Picard offers the unconditional surrender of the Enterprise and her crew. If Captain Needa accepts, he will have "won" the three-way engagement, thereby allowing it to end without a need for any further bloodshed. Lorth Needa is the epitome of the best of the Empire's training - an officer and a gentlemen. He accepts the Enterprise's surrender. O Anonymous 09/06/16(Tue)02:35:12 No.49200131 ► File: Q_in_Judge_Robes_(Star_Tr(.).jpg (34 KB, 640x480) >>49200046 Suddenly, there is a flash - and the Enterprise re-appears in the Milky Way, the Avenger in the Galaxy Far Far Away, and the Righteous Endeavor in the 40k Milky Way. Q appears on the bridge of the Enterprise, noting that what Picard did almost feels like cheating and he probably shouldn't have let him get off that easily. Picard, however, notes that he's grown used to Q by now. Humanity is learning and growing all the time - more importantly, Picard remembers the last time that Q tried to teach him about humility. Although, speaking of... "It's not like you to repeat a lesson, Q," Picard notes. "What was the point of all this? What were you trying to make us prove this time?" "You?" Q asks. "Oh, Jean-luc. The world doesn't revolve around your shining head, no matter what you think. You can try and puzzle out why, if you like, but sometimes there just isn't anything to learn." Q disappears in a flash, and the end credits roll. Meanwhile, across time and space, in some otherdimensional weirdness, Tzeentch hands Q $2.50, noting that while the Imperium lost, the Federation didn't win, and so he doesn't owe Q the full $5. * O Anonymous 09/06/16(Tue)02:47:01 No.49200227 >>49200243 >>49200257 >>49200264 File: Untitled.png (74 KB, 334x258) >>49200109 WHY THE IMPERIUM LOST I don't see how an average, or even exceptional, psyker can detect something thousands of lightyears away (Avenger), and even if they could both Enterprise and Avenger had ways of avoiding the Righteous Endeavor anyway (Enterprise is just plain faster at tactical speeds; the Avenger was deep insystem and so would detect Righteous Endeavor arriving insystem and be able to make a quick retreat since they're not nearly as restricted by gravity wells). Imperium starfighters were irrelevant here. They never engaged TIE/Ins or TIE bombers, and would be no more capable of responding to TIE/ws than the Righteous Endeavor would be. The Imperium has no sensor tech worth noting. By comparison the Enterprise's sensor tech is some of the best in all of science fiction. The Imperium has actually forgotten how to build or maintain a huge portion of its technology. By comparison the crew of an Imperial Star Destroyer can be presumed to be roughly as component in maintenance as the crew of a US naval vessel, while the Federation's engineers are continuously noted as being "wizards" as technology. Note that transporters were not even once brought up in this whole thing, despite them opening up a huge tactical advantage for the Enterprise. Finally..the Empire is willing to work with others when need be. The Federation has working with others as one of its principle tenets. The Imperium, meanwhile, xenophobic to its core and utterly incapable of working with others except in exceptional circumstances. Any three-way fight between the Empire, the Federation, and the Imperium is going to see the Federation and the Empire teaming up and pooling resources simply as a matter of course. SPOILERS](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/268/398/b39.png)
![File: 68KİB, 500x822, 1610322373330.png [View Same] [Google] [ImgOps] [iqdb] [SauceNAO] O Anonymous Sun 18 Apr 06:00:53 2021 No.78730783 [Reply] [Original] Quoted By: >>78730935 >>78730949 >>78731074 >78731242 >>78731284 >>78731353 >>78731377 >>78732960 >>78739005 >>78746272 >>78755889 >78757380 >>78757496 >>78760234 >>78762601 >>78764546 >>78770139 >>78775307 >>78782448 >>78782486 >>78796900 >>78799388 >>78802232 >>78803591 >>78804198 >>78808960 >>78825829 >>78835435 >78887535 >>78906919 >"Laws of Physics" and other supposedly solid laws of science and nature are actually just humanity unknowingly imposing its own order on the universe through observation. >It's like Observer Effect but on a basis far stronger than we ever could imagine. >The universe is in reality a chaotic place full of eldritch creatures, and humanity is just another one of those creatures. >From the perspective of the other eldritch beings the growth of humanity is a spreading blight of unnatural "stillness" and "order" as the natural fluidity of the universe is forced into laws through the observations of humanity. ww O Anonymous Sun 18 Apr 07:34:00 2021 No.78731418 File: 2MİB, 1920x1080, scr00000.png [View Same] [Google] [ImgOps] [iqdb] [SauceNAO] Quoted By: >>78731449 >>78844153 >>78730935 The scientific revolution was a controlled event, instituted by the Illuminati in order to tame the world and keep humanity from being able to harness the fluid and chaotic nature of the universe. Copernicus, Tycho Brahe, Isaac Newton, Galileo and others were all either active conspirators or were "fed" evidence by those that have enough control over reality to localize their results. A humanity that can change reality at a whim is one which is fundamentally uncontrollable, and the Elite decided that in order to make it through the Universe a steady guiding hand was required. This coincided with the covering up of evidence of the true nature of humanity's history, including Atlantis, Lemuria, Hyperborea and other ancient places of deep spiritual import. Today, the sheer denial of these places existing keeps them from being accessible by the majority of Humanity. Obviously this comes at a cost for the Illuminati themselves. They too have lost most of their ability to affect reality, only the most delusional (and therefore unstable and less useful) amongst them can affect a change as great as personal flight or creating flame. They are utterly terrified at the so called "meme magic" that the internet stumbled into. And have taken extreme measures to disrupt and disillusion any community that seems to be trying to actively use it. O Anonymous Sun 18 Apr 07:39:24 2021 No.78731449 >>78731418 Once the scientific revolution took hold, belief in an ordered and predictable universe created a self-fulfilling prophecy, whereby most scientist's observations look orderly precisely because they expect them to be. Anomalies such as the double slit experiment and others are just too fundamental for this effect to occur. On the other hand, grand scale cosmic events APPEAR orderly, from our vantage point, but there is a lot more going on than seen. Any scientist with a truly open mind might stumble on the chaotic nature of these results, but of course, they'll never get attention, either through natural disbelief, or by being disappeared by the Illuminati.](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/002/267/797/298.png)
![File: 68KİB, 500x822, 1610322373330.png [View Same] [Google] [ImgOps] [iqdb] [SauceNAO] O Anonymous Sun 18 Apr 06:00:53 2021 No.78730783 [Reply] [Original] Quoted By: >>78730935 >>78730949 >>78731074 >78731242 >>78731284 >>78731353 >>78731377 >>78732960 >>78739005 >>78746272 >>78755889 >78757380 >>78757496 >>78760234 >>78762601 >>78764546 >>78770139 >>78775307 >>78782448 >>78782486 >>78796900 >>78799388 >>78802232 >>78803591 >>78804198 >>78808960 >>78825829 >>78835435 >78887535 >>78906919 >"Laws of Physics" and other supposedly solid laws of science and nature are actually just humanity unknowingly imposing its own order on the universe through observation. >It's like Observer Effect but on a basis far stronger than we ever could imagine. >The universe is in reality a chaotic place full of eldritch creatures, and humanity is just another one of those creatures. >From the perspective of the other eldritch beings the growth of humanity is a spreading blight of unnatural "stillness" and "order" as the natural fluidity of the universe is forced into laws through the observations of humanity. ww O Anonymous Sun 18 Apr 07:34:00 2021 No.78731418 File: 2MİB, 1920x1080, scr00000.png [View Same] [Google] [ImgOps] [iqdb] [SauceNAO] Quoted By: >>78731449 >>78844153 >>78730935 The scientific revolution was a controlled event, instituted by the Illuminati in order to tame the world and keep humanity from being able to harness the fluid and chaotic nature of the universe. Copernicus, Tycho Brahe, Isaac Newton, Galileo and others were all either active conspirators or were "fed" evidence by those that have enough control over reality to localize their results. A humanity that can change reality at a whim is one which is fundamentally uncontrollable, and the Elite decided that in order to make it through the Universe a steady guiding hand was required. This coincided with the covering up of evidence of the true nature of humanity's history, including Atlantis, Lemuria, Hyperborea and other ancient places of deep spiritual import. Today, the sheer denial of these places existing keeps them from being accessible by the majority of Humanity. Obviously this comes at a cost for the Illuminati themselves. They too have lost most of their ability to affect reality, only the most delusional (and therefore unstable and less useful) amongst them can affect a change as great as personal flight or creating flame. They are utterly terrified at the so called "meme magic" that the internet stumbled into. And have taken extreme measures to disrupt and disillusion any community that seems to be trying to actively use it. O Anonymous Sun 18 Apr 07:39:24 2021 No.78731449 >>78731418 Once the scientific revolution took hold, belief in an ordered and predictable universe created a self-fulfilling prophecy, whereby most scientist's observations look orderly precisely because they expect them to be. Anomalies such as the double slit experiment and others are just too fundamental for this effect to occur. On the other hand, grand scale cosmic events APPEAR orderly, from our vantage point, but there is a lot more going on than seen. Any scientist with a truly open mind might stumble on the chaotic nature of these results, but of course, they'll never get attention, either through natural disbelief, or by being disappeared by the Illuminati.](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/267/797/298.png)
![T-IO Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:04 No.84447976 [▼] >>84448084 >>84448216 >>84448268 >>84448317 >>84448374 >>84448507 >>84449091 >>84449702 The whole show is a /tg/ game: >Players, I made this amazing plot for you all, with alien invasions, tears, suffering, and heroism worthy of MuvLuv Alternative >Roll for dodge >All three players fail >Then all the players decide to go after random tidbits and ignore the plothook. >Players destroy the inn every time. >DM tries to get them back on track with the guardian of the swamp, sending young men to explore the infestation, or even cave in by bug. >Player still dicking around the beginner village. T-O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:06 No.84448084 [v] >>84448179 >>84447976 >GM hands them an important item >players disregard the item and destroy it >GM says f--- it and makes it work anyways T-O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:10 No.84448268 [▼] >>84447976 This somehow made perfect sense. I thought the author was some amateur writer who can't tie up plot and scenes well but now I see it all just random events crudely stitched together. T-O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:11 No.84448317 [v] >>84448431 >84448448 >>84447976 So, syrup is the gmpc? T-O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:12 No.84448374 [ ] >>84447976 >Players, here is some demiurge, some gnositic references, some fantasy creatures, some dragon girls, some manly mages... Wait. DM. Go back a bit. Manly mages? no, further back. Dragon girls? Yes, Sold. T-) O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:13 No.84448431 [] >>84448317 Yes. She is literally railroad tracks. T-O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:13 No.84448448 [▼] >>84448503 >>84448317 Pretty much. Also, So Player 1, I read your chart, and it seems like you made a mistake. You gave barley tea +++ proficiency. Yes DM, that is exactly what I intend to do. T-IO Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:14 No.84448503 [v] >>84448692 >>84448448 Player 3's dump stat is INT and she solves everything with a giant axe. T-O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:18 No.84448692 [▼] >>84448503 And forgot that Dex is used for ranged to hit rolls instead of Str. T-IO Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:25 No.84449091 [v] >>84449383 >>84450460 >>84450652 >>84447976 >So Yurlungur thanks you for freeing his stomach of the block- Is the dragon attracted to my character? >What? No, I mean thats pretty- The dragon should be attracted to my character. She's basically a dragon and she's hotter than Jerry and Alex's characters. >But he's a drag- She's basically a dragon. >FINE! Yurlungur hits on you and tells you to call him. Happy?! Yes. T-O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:30 No.84449383 [-] >>84450064 >>84450460 >>84450652 >>84449091 >Your father is trapped in the mine. I dig him out. >You have no shovel, you must travel to the next town to get some shov.. I attack the wall >What? I attack the wall with my axe. I rolled an 18. >Fine. The wall has 400 HP. I summon Yurlungur. [-] O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:42 No.84450064 [-1>>84450127 >>84450195 >>84450441 >>84450460 >>84450652 >>84450821 >>84450890 >>84452671 >>84449383 >Syrup starts eating the food your servants have laid out for you. Wait. She eats the human-sized portions? How the f---? -How come he gets to be a princess and I'm some s----- orphaned water mage?- >Shut She eats human portions because she has fairy magic and fairies can eat as much as they want and not be fulI. up. Wow really? I tell my servants to get whats-her-name more food. I want to see how much she really can eat. >You know that your Dad is having a secret meeting right now, right? There could be stuff you could learn. About the quest. Nah f--- that, feed the fairy food. >Her name is Syrup. T-IO Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:43 No.84450127 [-] T-O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:50 No.84450441 [▼] >>84451916 >>84450064 >Her name is Syrup >>84450064 We need a log summary for every episode. T-O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:55 No.84450652 [ ] T-O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:51 No.84450460 [▼] >>84449091 >>84449383 >>84450064 >her name is syrup >>84449091 >>84449383 >>84450064 Just like in my old D&D days. Good god Im in tears T-O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)18:29 No.84452671 [v] [-] O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:58 No.84450821 [▼] 1335583473862.png (120 KB, 434x400) igdb google >>84450064 >Suddenly the cave is being flooded! You need to get out! Nah, Levia will make all the water go back up. >But her magic proficiency is too low We'll roll on it anyway. F--- yeah natural 20! >Syrup has found a mysterious artifact! She suggests you investigate it. F--- that, we have to save Jorm's dads. Throw that s--- away. >>84450064 >Her name is Syrup. T-IO Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)18:00 No.84450890 [] 1357478391068.png (368 KB, 569x480) igdb google >>84450064 >Her name is Syrup. I just can imagine a DM making a "Jesus Christ, I don't care anymore but at least remember the name of the character I worked on!" face. T-O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)18:45 No.84453653 [ ] T-O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)18:58 No.84454413 [▼] >>84454885 >>84456240 >>84451633 >so all your dragon girls have wings, a tail and cast magic Mine is a melee only, earth magic. I dont want wings either. >but how will you fly III throw my axe >but you dont have the dex re- III throw my axe. >>84454265 >Jormu is out of power now I transform -No you idiot youll kill us all, its a coal mine- So? -Nah, lemme do it- But theres no water moron, i can solve this really quickly >What the hell guys, common... Syrup sees a small gap in the rocks Send her through to check on my dads >How do you have more than one d- f--- it, okay syrup goes to inspect the cave >All of a sudden, the ground water starts rushing into the mine](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/002/190/366/67a.jpg)
![T-IO Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:04 No.84447976 [▼] >>84448084 >>84448216 >>84448268 >>84448317 >>84448374 >>84448507 >>84449091 >>84449702 The whole show is a /tg/ game: >Players, I made this amazing plot for you all, with alien invasions, tears, suffering, and heroism worthy of MuvLuv Alternative >Roll for dodge >All three players fail >Then all the players decide to go after random tidbits and ignore the plothook. >Players destroy the inn every time. >DM tries to get them back on track with the guardian of the swamp, sending young men to explore the infestation, or even cave in by bug. >Player still dicking around the beginner village. T-O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:06 No.84448084 [v] >>84448179 >>84447976 >GM hands them an important item >players disregard the item and destroy it >GM says f--- it and makes it work anyways T-O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:10 No.84448268 [▼] >>84447976 This somehow made perfect sense. I thought the author was some amateur writer who can't tie up plot and scenes well but now I see it all just random events crudely stitched together. T-O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:11 No.84448317 [v] >>84448431 >84448448 >>84447976 So, syrup is the gmpc? T-O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:12 No.84448374 [ ] >>84447976 >Players, here is some demiurge, some gnositic references, some fantasy creatures, some dragon girls, some manly mages... Wait. DM. Go back a bit. Manly mages? no, further back. Dragon girls? Yes, Sold. T-) O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:13 No.84448431 [] >>84448317 Yes. She is literally railroad tracks. T-O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:13 No.84448448 [▼] >>84448503 >>84448317 Pretty much. Also, So Player 1, I read your chart, and it seems like you made a mistake. You gave barley tea +++ proficiency. Yes DM, that is exactly what I intend to do. T-IO Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:14 No.84448503 [v] >>84448692 >>84448448 Player 3's dump stat is INT and she solves everything with a giant axe. T-O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:18 No.84448692 [▼] >>84448503 And forgot that Dex is used for ranged to hit rolls instead of Str. T-IO Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:25 No.84449091 [v] >>84449383 >>84450460 >>84450652 >>84447976 >So Yurlungur thanks you for freeing his stomach of the block- Is the dragon attracted to my character? >What? No, I mean thats pretty- The dragon should be attracted to my character. She's basically a dragon and she's hotter than Jerry and Alex's characters. >But he's a drag- She's basically a dragon. >FINE! Yurlungur hits on you and tells you to call him. Happy?! Yes. T-O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:30 No.84449383 [-] >>84450064 >>84450460 >>84450652 >>84449091 >Your father is trapped in the mine. I dig him out. >You have no shovel, you must travel to the next town to get some shov.. I attack the wall >What? I attack the wall with my axe. I rolled an 18. >Fine. The wall has 400 HP. I summon Yurlungur. [-] O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:42 No.84450064 [-1>>84450127 >>84450195 >>84450441 >>84450460 >>84450652 >>84450821 >>84450890 >>84452671 >>84449383 >Syrup starts eating the food your servants have laid out for you. Wait. She eats the human-sized portions? How the f---? -How come he gets to be a princess and I'm some s----- orphaned water mage?- >Shut She eats human portions because she has fairy magic and fairies can eat as much as they want and not be fulI. up. Wow really? I tell my servants to get whats-her-name more food. I want to see how much she really can eat. >You know that your Dad is having a secret meeting right now, right? There could be stuff you could learn. About the quest. Nah f--- that, feed the fairy food. >Her name is Syrup. T-IO Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:43 No.84450127 [-] T-O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:50 No.84450441 [▼] >>84451916 >>84450064 >Her name is Syrup >>84450064 We need a log summary for every episode. T-O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:55 No.84450652 [ ] T-O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:51 No.84450460 [▼] >>84449091 >>84449383 >>84450064 >her name is syrup >>84449091 >>84449383 >>84450064 Just like in my old D&D days. Good god Im in tears T-O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)18:29 No.84452671 [v] [-] O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)17:58 No.84450821 [▼] 1335583473862.png (120 KB, 434x400) igdb google >>84450064 >Suddenly the cave is being flooded! You need to get out! Nah, Levia will make all the water go back up. >But her magic proficiency is too low We'll roll on it anyway. F--- yeah natural 20! >Syrup has found a mysterious artifact! She suggests you investigate it. F--- that, we have to save Jorm's dads. Throw that s--- away. >>84450064 >Her name is Syrup. T-IO Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)18:00 No.84450890 [] 1357478391068.png (368 KB, 569x480) igdb google >>84450064 >Her name is Syrup. I just can imagine a DM making a "Jesus Christ, I don't care anymore but at least remember the name of the character I worked on!" face. T-O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)18:45 No.84453653 [ ] T-O Anonymous 04/28/13(Sun)18:58 No.84454413 [▼] >>84454885 >>84456240 >>84451633 >so all your dragon girls have wings, a tail and cast magic Mine is a melee only, earth magic. I dont want wings either. >but how will you fly III throw my axe >but you dont have the dex re- III throw my axe. >>84454265 >Jormu is out of power now I transform -No you idiot youll kill us all, its a coal mine- So? -Nah, lemme do it- But theres no water moron, i can solve this really quickly >What the hell guys, common... Syrup sees a small gap in the rocks Send her through to check on my dads >How do you have more than one d- f--- it, okay syrup goes to inspect the cave >All of a sudden, the ground water starts rushing into the mine](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/190/366/67a.jpg)
![File: sci-fi-art-of-chris-drysdale-4.jpg (111 KB, 1024x576) O Anonymous 07/28/19(Sun)17:34:41 No.67510490 Archived What would the geological strata of a 10000-year old industrial world be like assuming the inhabitants gave zero f---- about the environment. So far I have concrete, industrial slag, and rusted metal, but more is good. Also, general discussion of tabletop things to do in such a setting is encouraged. O Anonymous 07/28/19(Sun)17:36:08 No.67510516 >> >>67510490 Acidified soil which is also polluted by heavy metals on which almost nothing grows. O Anonymous 07/28/19(Sun)17:51:16 No.67510753 >>67510490 You could have the bacteria and simple organisms which can survive on such toxic fare form huge slimy "fields" of matted biofilm. If the PCs investigate further, they may see miniscule organisms crawling and slithering through the stinking slime. Give the impression that although life is recovering, the new ecosystem is not going to be one favorable for human ( If the PCs are human) colonization. O Anonymous 07/28/19(Sun)19:55:13 No.67512676 I'm a geologist, and I've thought about this quite a lot. You would likely find a planetwide stratum highly enriched in heavy metals, especially well preserved in lacustrine and coastal marine sediments, which would also contain large amounts of preserved trash; especially glass, stainless steel and some plastics, would would all still be kicking around after that time. 10ky isn't enough time to form rock, so they would all be as unconsolidated sediments and soils. Cities would have a highly peculiar geology, consisting of geometrically arranged hummocky hills probably grassed over, with the hills consisting of concrete with the presence of iron-rich minerals and, depending on the building, trace metals like tellurium, neodymium, gold etc. from electronics and so on divided by strips of tar that are buried roads. Fragments of well-built tunnel networks would survive, those that are not caved in would be either crumbling or filled with water and sediment depending on the height of the water table, their construction and the surrounding geology. Around and especially downwind of the cities would see very high amounts of heavy metal and toxic pollutants, provided they haven't been leached out by rain. Nuclear facilities would also be very identifiable thanks to their radioactive pollution slick and concentration, and many containment structures would still survive thanks to being massive edifices. Rubbish dumps would turn into goldmines for artifacts, and many would be very well preserved thanks to the anoxic conditions inside the trash heaps. Some structures, especially large ones of concrete and stone, would survive. I'm talking about hydro dams, bridge pillars, monuments and the sort of large edifice that would resist erosion. Pure concrete would survive better than reinforced concrete, since steel rebar has a tendency to swell as it rusts and crack the concrete. O Anonymous 07/28/19(Sun)19:56:19 No.67512689 >>67512676 Mines would also be very well preserved, with quarries appearing nearly exactly as they were left. Underground networks would also probably be still around, but crumbling supports would render many highly unstable and under the water table some may completely fill with sediment and mineral deposits (given long enough this would lithify and form a perfect underground cast of the tunnel network). This also goes for mountain transport tunnels. O Anonymous 07/28/19(Sun)21:30:25 No.67513869 File: 3c2bf4d8673ae762d33dd3f2a(...).jpg (86 KB, 550x733) >>67510490 Not the geological strata, but I wouldn't mind commenting on the environmental conditions a bit: First and foremost conditions would be arid, uncomfortable, and toxic, with much of the world desertified or otherwise turned into a kind of wasteland of harsh toxic winds, rust storms, dust devils, acid rain storms, with most freshwater available being either acidic or extremely toxic due to industrial runoff and other contaminates. >Birds are basically extinct. Most if not all birds would be extinct. Much like a Canary in a coal mine their delicate lungs and sensitive respiratory systems would not be able to withstand or adapt in time to the heavily polluted air of this industrial waste-world. There species most likely to persist would be the ones we're already accustomed to: Pigeons, Sparrows, Carrion Birds, but even these birds would be very rare, few in number, with their entire species' health and reproduction constantly compromised by this environment. >Rat world Every mammal larger than a Dog would be extinct, but the ones that did survive would carry on and if anything thrive as they've always done during such dramatic extinction events. Creatures like Rats, Mice, Shrews, Moles, Gophers, Rabbits, and other rodents & burrowing creatures would find this meager world abundant in resources and lacking in predators. They would simply be everywhere: subterranean animals can survive effortlessly in high carbon-dioxide and low oxygen environments, combined with their fast rate of reproduction would allow them to easily adapt, evolve, and overcome any obstacle this rust world threw at them. Still, though, there would also be Canines, Goats, Hogs... Maybe Bears? Omnivorous generalists would be at an advantage, but most large animals would find it difficult to find sufficient sustenance or take too long to mature and reproduce before they succumb to pollutants. O Anonymous 07/28/19(Sun)22:04:35 No.67514293 File: Oa678daae67232420ddc21a4d(...).jpg (86 KB, 1024x597) >>67513869 >Spots of greenery. Vegetation would continue to grow and the world would remain greener than most people would expect it to be as a diversity of species would be more than capable of safely growing in toxic & polluted conditions due to remediation techniques, but the arid and hostile weather conditions and the presence of acid rain would limit really abundant, rich, greenery and growth... Most of this vegetation would be immediately toxic and inedible to people and would need to be washed and processed. Trees would be exceedingly rare; replaced by scrubs, shrubs, bushes, succulents, grasses, lichens, moss, and other foliage that can withstand not just the lack of proper rainfall, but keep from being torn apart by the rust winds. Though, most places would often simply be too wind-swept, too hard of earth, and too 'sanitized' (lacking in rich earth) to sustain vegetation. >Creeping things. The vast majority of Insects would largely not give a single s---, but an overwhelming spectrum of specialized insects would go extinct from the absence of the unique resources and ecosystems they dependent upon as opposed to the polluted biosphere. I highly doubt any Bees, Butterflies, Moths, and most Wasps wouldn't make it, but certain Beetles, Flies, Roaches, Mosquitos, Worms, and the like would adapt, overcome, and carry on as usual. By the 10,000 year mark Insects would be carrying on as if nothing happened. O Anonymous 07/28/19(Sun)22:29:32 No.67514584 File: eba179ce56f965fb406ffcd8f(...).jpg (159 KB, 768x511) >>67514293 >Muddy shallow oceans: rich with 'life'. Despite this worlds oceans drying out to shallow seas they would still contain a rich, versatile, depth of marine life and be home to 90-97% of the polluted worlds life. To the point where people and creatures living by what remained of the muddy, polluted, plastic covered seas would still fare quite well compared to the people and creatures living in the interior wastelands. The other irony is that these shallow seas would allow for more sunlight to breach through the depths and encourage the development of more reefs, kelp forests, and 'land' for other marine organisms to flourish despite the conditions. Indeed, the only 'real' threat faced by the remaining oceans would be the suppressive, smothering, waves of plastic that would block the sun and choke creatures. Most heavy metal pollutants and industrial run-off would give rise to algae blooms and act as vital fertilizer and nutrients to Scum, Algae, and other simple organisms. These in turn provide ample sustenance for bottom feeders and combined with the far warmer waters would give rise to increase size, fertility, and populations of shellfish: Mussels, Lobsters, Crabs, etc.. These creatures would be, again, toxic, due to pollution, but they'd still be an important food source. Everything else in the ocean would be hit or miss depending on how many species were left untouched as no threat is greater to the ocean than overfishing. Most marine mammals & seabirds would not survive these harsh conditions (Penguins and small Baleen Whales might ironically persist?), but fish would be able to repopulate, survive, adapt, re-fill niches, and even SWELL in numbers so long as they weren't eaten before the collapse. O Anonymous 07/28/19(Sun)23:50:07 No.67515469 No standing or running freshwater would be safe or trustworthy: it would ALL be contaminated by the heavily polluted world's plastics, heavy metals, and various other noxious pollutants- some sources of water wouldn't even be water but horrible burning pools of acid. The only safe source of moisture would be from acid rain and even then it wouldn't be 'truly' safe; the LEAST safe source would be ground water, as it'd be completely and totally saturated in the absolute worst contaminates. This is a world devoid of wells. Many freshwater biomes would be highly polluted, dangerous, muddy cesspools devoid of any palatable life; giving off noxious fumes that alone would dissuade other creatures from drinking from them, never mind some of them in fact being horrifying pools of flesh-melting acid. Despite such adversity there would still be Scum, Algae, and dense clouds of Microbes, all supped on by seemingly invincible and now ridiculously plentiful Minnows (progressively getting larger and larger. Pan-sized Killifish would not be uncommon). Running rivers would fare 'slightly' better, but they'd still be home to much the same- only just clean enough to house Catfish, toxic Shellfish, and fish capable of breathing air. There would be no Frogs, no Newts; all amphibians would be extinct, with intrepid air-breathing fish aggressively taking over their now empty niche. O Anonymous 07/29/19(Mon)02:34:19 No.67517474 First and foremost: I don't think people would be living in scavenged, ugly, derelict, improvised, shanty towns, I just don't. I also don't think you're ever going to see anybody living out in the open. This polluted world is going to not just dominated by hot, arid, toxic wastelands, but it's also going to come with all the weather conditions: acidic rains that eat through and corrode most metal or wood structures, and massive, extremely powerful, noxious dust storms filled with rust, pollutants, and even radioactive debris. Most people (depending on their technological levels) are either going to be nomadic (actively fleeing from the weather), living underground, or in specific terrain that otherwise blocks the wind or keeps them secluded from the worst conditions. Imagine the dust bowl, but now it burns, it can make you sick, and it's got enough momentum to shave you. | think people are going to recycle what's available and use it to make 'new' stuff for themselves: buildings out of clay, straw, brick, and mortar, metal melted down and reforged into higher quality tools, weapons, & armor, vehicles and technology either fixed or refurbished into 'new' devices to lengthen their lifespan. Nothing is going to be made out of wood. Wood is gone. Technology, though, can be whatever you want it to be. I'd imagine there'd be the full spectrum: people living in technologically advanced communities, ignoring the problems outside as they live in unfathomably luxury and plot their next step into space. People living in 'fairly' developed mixed medieval-modern 'Nausicaa' style countries or kingdoms that are naturally protected from the worst weather- relying on swords, guns, and tanks to defend their highly sought after land, where you've got pick up trucks & radios, but your military still wears suits of armor. Finally, you may even have just.. straight up ooga booga not!larping, legitimately f------ ignorant tribal communities. O Anonymous 07/29/19(Mon)14:28:23 No.67524582 File: post-apoc london.jpg (289 KB, 1920x1080) >>67517474 >>67515469 I don't know if you're still here (and this is great stuff btw), but seeing as you mention how utterly rekt the saturated ground would be in terms of contaminants, I'm wondering how that would affect the big classic response to apocalyptic catastrophes - digging a big hole and building a bunker in it. Does that plan still hold up when the earth is toxic as hell? O Anonymous 07/29/19(Mon)19:00:06 No.67529247 >>67524582 >Does that plan still hold up when the earth is toxic as hell? Soft yes. Even though the ground is just completely saturated a Bunker would still function more or less the same because a 'good' Bunker would be air-tight, lead walls, protected from outside contaminants both from above and below. The only issue here is you wouldn't have the advantage of things like ground water, but if you've got a BUNKER, Bunker than you probably already have some sort of system going on. Even less-than-air-tight Bunkers would still be a thing in this world despite the health-risks simply because living in a dry pit of noxious materials is better than standing out in the open and getting sand-blasted down by the radioactive rust storms that blow over everything and everyone. This is also just something to think about, but a Bunker is usually implemented for apocalyptic situations where there's an immediate 'doomsday', but conditions are 'eventually' expected to improve: the fallout settles, society rebuilds itself, you maybe crawl out after 10 years and see what's up. This isn't going to be the case for Trash World. Our polluted world has seen 10,000 years of pollution (and industrial/technological development) and it's going to be a s--- hole for functionally forever, like, we're talking longer than 30,000 years, but maybe less time than 3 million? You, your kids, your grandkids, basically everyone 'forever' would only ever know garbage. O Anonymous 07/30/19(Tue)22:36:09 No.67549523 File: algae-beach[1].jpg (112 KB, 350x250) >>67517474 Lets talk about what there is to eat. Every plant is going to be toxic or 'immediately' inedible in some way or another, lets just address that right now. EVERYTHING is going to need to be washed thoroughly and then soaked in water for days before it becomes edible as ALL the plants (I think the term is remediation?) are going to store the various hazardous materials they're exposed to on a daily basis in their leaves and roots. Most people forced to live 'outdoors' or otherwise exposed are going to be farming a variety of starchy root vegetable. Gone are the days long growing periods and large exposed fields: conventional agriculture is going to be largely impractical or impossible due to the dust storms, the heat, and ironically not due to the pollution in the soil or the noxious atmosphere (still a problem, but being torn apart by wind is something most plants would never adapt too). The people with access or ingenuity to build indoor greenhouses and hydroponics would generate far better table fare as our polluted world would be FILLED with the ingredients for excellent fertilizer: collect soil, seave out the plastic, rinse and mix with water, if it's too dry add human/animal waste- you now have excellent (if radioactive) fertilizer rich in all manner of minerals & nutrients. Corn, beans, peas and grapes are big on this filthy metal-infused kind of dirt, but I think thin-rooted leafy vegetables don't mind it either? Again, wash everything. Though, algae replace grain. Algae would be 'the' food. Algae thrives in polluted waters, algae is a complete protein/provides ample nourishment, algae has a unique chemical agent in it that bonds with heavy metals and acts as an effective long-term treatment for poisoning, algae can also be used to make -safe- cooking oil (which would be rare) as well as biofuel for machines. Roasted, dried, or raw, algae also retains most of it's nutrients no matter what you do with it. O Anonymous 07/30/19(Tue)23:27:52 No.67550111 File: graphics-ssf_a-labella-_1(...).jpg (65 KB, 1200x675) >>67549523 Algae would also be an excellent source of animal feed and a decent segway into what most, like, 80% of people would actually be eating: meat. Agriculture is impractical, but meat would be the treat to eat in trash world. Rats, lizards, shrews, voles, moles, (admittingly) sickly deer, goats & small pigs, and a rich persistent supply of ever-present insects would all still be stubbornly persisting and therefor eatable. The great benefit of meat in this hazardous world is that it converts the paltry, inedible, hazardous, and often toxic plant life into more nutritious and far more palatable flesh. The animals that remain are going to adapt, evolve, and overcome the obstacles of this polluted world far faster than humans will: short life spans, high birth rates, and unlike plants they'll evolve ways to diffuse or 'remove' the hazardous contaminants instead of diffusing or moving them around in their bodies.. That and milk. From goats. Mostly. Rat & worm farms, goat herds, and people heading out with a shovel to turn over rocks or dig out the burrows of some tasty gopher would be the 'norm'. Seafood and even fish is still going to be on the menu as well. Shellfish (including Crustaceans) would be abundant and a reliable source of food, but would have to washed and rinsed thoroughly as they'd be loaded with pollutants that don't bother 'them', but would make a human terribly sick. Saltwater fish would be fair better than land animals, but worse than shellfish. Overall some things wouldn't change and you'd still see large populations congregating in maritime communities to fish the plastic-choked waters of this garbage world. There'd even be a scant few freshwater fish actively -thriving- because they were willing to put up with toxic environments in the first place just to survive and now their unique niche biome is EVERYWHERE. Provided people figured out a safe way to fish flammable waters, you could sup on some decent pan-sized fish.](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/002/186/865/96b.png)
![File: sci-fi-art-of-chris-drysdale-4.jpg (111 KB, 1024x576) O Anonymous 07/28/19(Sun)17:34:41 No.67510490 Archived What would the geological strata of a 10000-year old industrial world be like assuming the inhabitants gave zero f---- about the environment. So far I have concrete, industrial slag, and rusted metal, but more is good. Also, general discussion of tabletop things to do in such a setting is encouraged. O Anonymous 07/28/19(Sun)17:36:08 No.67510516 >> >>67510490 Acidified soil which is also polluted by heavy metals on which almost nothing grows. O Anonymous 07/28/19(Sun)17:51:16 No.67510753 >>67510490 You could have the bacteria and simple organisms which can survive on such toxic fare form huge slimy "fields" of matted biofilm. If the PCs investigate further, they may see miniscule organisms crawling and slithering through the stinking slime. Give the impression that although life is recovering, the new ecosystem is not going to be one favorable for human ( If the PCs are human) colonization. O Anonymous 07/28/19(Sun)19:55:13 No.67512676 I'm a geologist, and I've thought about this quite a lot. You would likely find a planetwide stratum highly enriched in heavy metals, especially well preserved in lacustrine and coastal marine sediments, which would also contain large amounts of preserved trash; especially glass, stainless steel and some plastics, would would all still be kicking around after that time. 10ky isn't enough time to form rock, so they would all be as unconsolidated sediments and soils. Cities would have a highly peculiar geology, consisting of geometrically arranged hummocky hills probably grassed over, with the hills consisting of concrete with the presence of iron-rich minerals and, depending on the building, trace metals like tellurium, neodymium, gold etc. from electronics and so on divided by strips of tar that are buried roads. Fragments of well-built tunnel networks would survive, those that are not caved in would be either crumbling or filled with water and sediment depending on the height of the water table, their construction and the surrounding geology. Around and especially downwind of the cities would see very high amounts of heavy metal and toxic pollutants, provided they haven't been leached out by rain. Nuclear facilities would also be very identifiable thanks to their radioactive pollution slick and concentration, and many containment structures would still survive thanks to being massive edifices. Rubbish dumps would turn into goldmines for artifacts, and many would be very well preserved thanks to the anoxic conditions inside the trash heaps. Some structures, especially large ones of concrete and stone, would survive. I'm talking about hydro dams, bridge pillars, monuments and the sort of large edifice that would resist erosion. Pure concrete would survive better than reinforced concrete, since steel rebar has a tendency to swell as it rusts and crack the concrete. O Anonymous 07/28/19(Sun)19:56:19 No.67512689 >>67512676 Mines would also be very well preserved, with quarries appearing nearly exactly as they were left. Underground networks would also probably be still around, but crumbling supports would render many highly unstable and under the water table some may completely fill with sediment and mineral deposits (given long enough this would lithify and form a perfect underground cast of the tunnel network). This also goes for mountain transport tunnels. O Anonymous 07/28/19(Sun)21:30:25 No.67513869 File: 3c2bf4d8673ae762d33dd3f2a(...).jpg (86 KB, 550x733) >>67510490 Not the geological strata, but I wouldn't mind commenting on the environmental conditions a bit: First and foremost conditions would be arid, uncomfortable, and toxic, with much of the world desertified or otherwise turned into a kind of wasteland of harsh toxic winds, rust storms, dust devils, acid rain storms, with most freshwater available being either acidic or extremely toxic due to industrial runoff and other contaminates. >Birds are basically extinct. Most if not all birds would be extinct. Much like a Canary in a coal mine their delicate lungs and sensitive respiratory systems would not be able to withstand or adapt in time to the heavily polluted air of this industrial waste-world. There species most likely to persist would be the ones we're already accustomed to: Pigeons, Sparrows, Carrion Birds, but even these birds would be very rare, few in number, with their entire species' health and reproduction constantly compromised by this environment. >Rat world Every mammal larger than a Dog would be extinct, but the ones that did survive would carry on and if anything thrive as they've always done during such dramatic extinction events. Creatures like Rats, Mice, Shrews, Moles, Gophers, Rabbits, and other rodents & burrowing creatures would find this meager world abundant in resources and lacking in predators. They would simply be everywhere: subterranean animals can survive effortlessly in high carbon-dioxide and low oxygen environments, combined with their fast rate of reproduction would allow them to easily adapt, evolve, and overcome any obstacle this rust world threw at them. Still, though, there would also be Canines, Goats, Hogs... Maybe Bears? Omnivorous generalists would be at an advantage, but most large animals would find it difficult to find sufficient sustenance or take too long to mature and reproduce before they succumb to pollutants. O Anonymous 07/28/19(Sun)22:04:35 No.67514293 File: Oa678daae67232420ddc21a4d(...).jpg (86 KB, 1024x597) >>67513869 >Spots of greenery. Vegetation would continue to grow and the world would remain greener than most people would expect it to be as a diversity of species would be more than capable of safely growing in toxic & polluted conditions due to remediation techniques, but the arid and hostile weather conditions and the presence of acid rain would limit really abundant, rich, greenery and growth... Most of this vegetation would be immediately toxic and inedible to people and would need to be washed and processed. Trees would be exceedingly rare; replaced by scrubs, shrubs, bushes, succulents, grasses, lichens, moss, and other foliage that can withstand not just the lack of proper rainfall, but keep from being torn apart by the rust winds. Though, most places would often simply be too wind-swept, too hard of earth, and too 'sanitized' (lacking in rich earth) to sustain vegetation. >Creeping things. The vast majority of Insects would largely not give a single s---, but an overwhelming spectrum of specialized insects would go extinct from the absence of the unique resources and ecosystems they dependent upon as opposed to the polluted biosphere. I highly doubt any Bees, Butterflies, Moths, and most Wasps wouldn't make it, but certain Beetles, Flies, Roaches, Mosquitos, Worms, and the like would adapt, overcome, and carry on as usual. By the 10,000 year mark Insects would be carrying on as if nothing happened. O Anonymous 07/28/19(Sun)22:29:32 No.67514584 File: eba179ce56f965fb406ffcd8f(...).jpg (159 KB, 768x511) >>67514293 >Muddy shallow oceans: rich with 'life'. Despite this worlds oceans drying out to shallow seas they would still contain a rich, versatile, depth of marine life and be home to 90-97% of the polluted worlds life. To the point where people and creatures living by what remained of the muddy, polluted, plastic covered seas would still fare quite well compared to the people and creatures living in the interior wastelands. The other irony is that these shallow seas would allow for more sunlight to breach through the depths and encourage the development of more reefs, kelp forests, and 'land' for other marine organisms to flourish despite the conditions. Indeed, the only 'real' threat faced by the remaining oceans would be the suppressive, smothering, waves of plastic that would block the sun and choke creatures. Most heavy metal pollutants and industrial run-off would give rise to algae blooms and act as vital fertilizer and nutrients to Scum, Algae, and other simple organisms. These in turn provide ample sustenance for bottom feeders and combined with the far warmer waters would give rise to increase size, fertility, and populations of shellfish: Mussels, Lobsters, Crabs, etc.. These creatures would be, again, toxic, due to pollution, but they'd still be an important food source. Everything else in the ocean would be hit or miss depending on how many species were left untouched as no threat is greater to the ocean than overfishing. Most marine mammals & seabirds would not survive these harsh conditions (Penguins and small Baleen Whales might ironically persist?), but fish would be able to repopulate, survive, adapt, re-fill niches, and even SWELL in numbers so long as they weren't eaten before the collapse. O Anonymous 07/28/19(Sun)23:50:07 No.67515469 No standing or running freshwater would be safe or trustworthy: it would ALL be contaminated by the heavily polluted world's plastics, heavy metals, and various other noxious pollutants- some sources of water wouldn't even be water but horrible burning pools of acid. The only safe source of moisture would be from acid rain and even then it wouldn't be 'truly' safe; the LEAST safe source would be ground water, as it'd be completely and totally saturated in the absolute worst contaminates. This is a world devoid of wells. Many freshwater biomes would be highly polluted, dangerous, muddy cesspools devoid of any palatable life; giving off noxious fumes that alone would dissuade other creatures from drinking from them, never mind some of them in fact being horrifying pools of flesh-melting acid. Despite such adversity there would still be Scum, Algae, and dense clouds of Microbes, all supped on by seemingly invincible and now ridiculously plentiful Minnows (progressively getting larger and larger. Pan-sized Killifish would not be uncommon). Running rivers would fare 'slightly' better, but they'd still be home to much the same- only just clean enough to house Catfish, toxic Shellfish, and fish capable of breathing air. There would be no Frogs, no Newts; all amphibians would be extinct, with intrepid air-breathing fish aggressively taking over their now empty niche. O Anonymous 07/29/19(Mon)02:34:19 No.67517474 First and foremost: I don't think people would be living in scavenged, ugly, derelict, improvised, shanty towns, I just don't. I also don't think you're ever going to see anybody living out in the open. This polluted world is going to not just dominated by hot, arid, toxic wastelands, but it's also going to come with all the weather conditions: acidic rains that eat through and corrode most metal or wood structures, and massive, extremely powerful, noxious dust storms filled with rust, pollutants, and even radioactive debris. Most people (depending on their technological levels) are either going to be nomadic (actively fleeing from the weather), living underground, or in specific terrain that otherwise blocks the wind or keeps them secluded from the worst conditions. Imagine the dust bowl, but now it burns, it can make you sick, and it's got enough momentum to shave you. | think people are going to recycle what's available and use it to make 'new' stuff for themselves: buildings out of clay, straw, brick, and mortar, metal melted down and reforged into higher quality tools, weapons, & armor, vehicles and technology either fixed or refurbished into 'new' devices to lengthen their lifespan. Nothing is going to be made out of wood. Wood is gone. Technology, though, can be whatever you want it to be. I'd imagine there'd be the full spectrum: people living in technologically advanced communities, ignoring the problems outside as they live in unfathomably luxury and plot their next step into space. People living in 'fairly' developed mixed medieval-modern 'Nausicaa' style countries or kingdoms that are naturally protected from the worst weather- relying on swords, guns, and tanks to defend their highly sought after land, where you've got pick up trucks & radios, but your military still wears suits of armor. Finally, you may even have just.. straight up ooga booga not!larping, legitimately f------ ignorant tribal communities. O Anonymous 07/29/19(Mon)14:28:23 No.67524582 File: post-apoc london.jpg (289 KB, 1920x1080) >>67517474 >>67515469 I don't know if you're still here (and this is great stuff btw), but seeing as you mention how utterly rekt the saturated ground would be in terms of contaminants, I'm wondering how that would affect the big classic response to apocalyptic catastrophes - digging a big hole and building a bunker in it. Does that plan still hold up when the earth is toxic as hell? O Anonymous 07/29/19(Mon)19:00:06 No.67529247 >>67524582 >Does that plan still hold up when the earth is toxic as hell? Soft yes. Even though the ground is just completely saturated a Bunker would still function more or less the same because a 'good' Bunker would be air-tight, lead walls, protected from outside contaminants both from above and below. The only issue here is you wouldn't have the advantage of things like ground water, but if you've got a BUNKER, Bunker than you probably already have some sort of system going on. Even less-than-air-tight Bunkers would still be a thing in this world despite the health-risks simply because living in a dry pit of noxious materials is better than standing out in the open and getting sand-blasted down by the radioactive rust storms that blow over everything and everyone. This is also just something to think about, but a Bunker is usually implemented for apocalyptic situations where there's an immediate 'doomsday', but conditions are 'eventually' expected to improve: the fallout settles, society rebuilds itself, you maybe crawl out after 10 years and see what's up. This isn't going to be the case for Trash World. Our polluted world has seen 10,000 years of pollution (and industrial/technological development) and it's going to be a s--- hole for functionally forever, like, we're talking longer than 30,000 years, but maybe less time than 3 million? You, your kids, your grandkids, basically everyone 'forever' would only ever know garbage. O Anonymous 07/30/19(Tue)22:36:09 No.67549523 File: algae-beach[1].jpg (112 KB, 350x250) >>67517474 Lets talk about what there is to eat. Every plant is going to be toxic or 'immediately' inedible in some way or another, lets just address that right now. EVERYTHING is going to need to be washed thoroughly and then soaked in water for days before it becomes edible as ALL the plants (I think the term is remediation?) are going to store the various hazardous materials they're exposed to on a daily basis in their leaves and roots. Most people forced to live 'outdoors' or otherwise exposed are going to be farming a variety of starchy root vegetable. Gone are the days long growing periods and large exposed fields: conventional agriculture is going to be largely impractical or impossible due to the dust storms, the heat, and ironically not due to the pollution in the soil or the noxious atmosphere (still a problem, but being torn apart by wind is something most plants would never adapt too). The people with access or ingenuity to build indoor greenhouses and hydroponics would generate far better table fare as our polluted world would be FILLED with the ingredients for excellent fertilizer: collect soil, seave out the plastic, rinse and mix with water, if it's too dry add human/animal waste- you now have excellent (if radioactive) fertilizer rich in all manner of minerals & nutrients. Corn, beans, peas and grapes are big on this filthy metal-infused kind of dirt, but I think thin-rooted leafy vegetables don't mind it either? Again, wash everything. Though, algae replace grain. Algae would be 'the' food. Algae thrives in polluted waters, algae is a complete protein/provides ample nourishment, algae has a unique chemical agent in it that bonds with heavy metals and acts as an effective long-term treatment for poisoning, algae can also be used to make -safe- cooking oil (which would be rare) as well as biofuel for machines. Roasted, dried, or raw, algae also retains most of it's nutrients no matter what you do with it. O Anonymous 07/30/19(Tue)23:27:52 No.67550111 File: graphics-ssf_a-labella-_1(...).jpg (65 KB, 1200x675) >>67549523 Algae would also be an excellent source of animal feed and a decent segway into what most, like, 80% of people would actually be eating: meat. Agriculture is impractical, but meat would be the treat to eat in trash world. Rats, lizards, shrews, voles, moles, (admittingly) sickly deer, goats & small pigs, and a rich persistent supply of ever-present insects would all still be stubbornly persisting and therefor eatable. The great benefit of meat in this hazardous world is that it converts the paltry, inedible, hazardous, and often toxic plant life into more nutritious and far more palatable flesh. The animals that remain are going to adapt, evolve, and overcome the obstacles of this polluted world far faster than humans will: short life spans, high birth rates, and unlike plants they'll evolve ways to diffuse or 'remove' the hazardous contaminants instead of diffusing or moving them around in their bodies.. That and milk. From goats. Mostly. Rat & worm farms, goat herds, and people heading out with a shovel to turn over rocks or dig out the burrows of some tasty gopher would be the 'norm'. Seafood and even fish is still going to be on the menu as well. Shellfish (including Crustaceans) would be abundant and a reliable source of food, but would have to washed and rinsed thoroughly as they'd be loaded with pollutants that don't bother 'them', but would make a human terribly sick. Saltwater fish would be fair better than land animals, but worse than shellfish. Overall some things wouldn't change and you'd still see large populations congregating in maritime communities to fish the plastic-choked waters of this garbage world. There'd even be a scant few freshwater fish actively -thriving- because they were willing to put up with toxic environments in the first place just to survive and now their unique niche biome is EVERYWHERE. Provided people figured out a safe way to fish flammable waters, you could sup on some decent pan-sized fish.](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/186/865/96b.png)
![File : 1309963244.jpg-(113 KB, 699x312, Romans_Americans.jpg) O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)10:40 No.15491610 Ok /tg/, my next campaign involves a bunch of Romans (led by a much less killed by Parthians Crassus) who ended up landing in what is now Los Angeles, from around the year 50 BC, thanks to Chinese magic warping their inconvenient expedition 'somewhere out of the way.' The better part of two thousand years later, explorers from Europe bumble into the Americas while looking for tea, and find an eerily familiar "Atlantean Empire" just constructing ships of their own to figure out what is on the other side of that very same ocean. Those European explorers are my players. So /tg/, I need ideas for how Romans+Native Americans would look culturally, militarily and as an Empire. This is of course assuming that even with their initial advantage and powerful culture, the Romans would've had to absorb many times their number worth of Americans to survive in their new home, and thus, would probably have adopted a lot of distinctly I---- traits alongside their own. Also, is this a cool idea, y/n? O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)10:46 No.15491637 Hmm. I'm tempted to say that, with the Native American stance on landownership (you don't, and how could you?), land might be considered a matter of the res publica rather than a private person's. (This assumes the Romans accept the idea of shared landownership and integrate that with the idea of the public matter, rather than go LOL NO and hand out I---- lands for their veterans.) >Antipater temonas How Roman of you, captcha. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)10:47 No.15491649 >>15491637 I've serious doubts that they would harmonize their ideals with the Injuns. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)10:50 No.15491664 File1309963816.jpg-(192 KB, 1024x819, Roman Sophitia.jpg) I can't see the Romans respecting a people who haven't figured out how to fight real wars yet. West coast native americans were very much this. They were less developed than the aborigines for God's sake, at least the Australian natives had figured out spears. Then again, it probably won't matter, because of how many goddamn women they're going to need to buy or steal. I don't know how many chicks these guys thought to bring along, but unless they invented co-ed legions while I wasn't looking, they're going to have to pull the whole Sabine Women thing every other day for the first few decades if they want a stable population base. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)10:51 No.15491676 >>15491637 Two generations after the Romans build their first city, every kid from all the tribes in the area will either have citizenship or be waiting for one. Wisdom of the land and harmony with the spirits is fine only as long as you don't have an alternative. Romans got so big because most of the conquered populations wanted to be Romans, too. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)10:58 No.15491753 >>15491649 >l've serious doubts that they would harmonize their ideals with the Injuns. This. We're talking about a Roman Legion in a climate reminiscent of their home (i.e. not too hot, not too cold). They certainly wouldn't be starving or dying. They would impose their upon the Natives. End off. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)11:01 No.15491792 Don't forget the effect of introducing European disease into the Americas fifteen hundred years early. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)11:03 No.15491811 >>15491758 I think it would end up like this: Alright you savages, listen up. We're right, you're wrong. You believe what we believe now. That thing you always believe in? Turns out it was secretly this thing we believe in. And a bunch of Indian slowly trying to merge their ancestors stuff with the shiny people's beliefs. So what we end up with is a clusterfuck of Native American ideas with a Roman veneer. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)11:08 No.15491842 File1309964901.jpg-(21 KB, 143x231, Zeus_Troll.jpg) >>15491811 >mfw Coyote was just Zeus coming down in animal form to r--- delicious squaw O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)11:10 No.15491850 >>15491610 >constructing ships of their own to figure out what is on the other side of that very same ocean. I don't need to tell you how f------ bad this is for Europe, do l? O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)11:13 No.15491868 /tg/ dismisses the native Americans too easily. When they weren't fighting people with guns, they did pretty damn well. They regularly slapped the Viking's s--- if you remember. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)11:18 No. 15491900 >>15491868 That's true. But those were East-Coast indians, fighting against what amounted to the crews of boats. This is a fully formed land army that somehow ended up in West-Coast America. The western injuns did not have a particularly well honed martial tradition. Didn't even have the concept of dedicated melee weapons down, as far as I know. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)11:39 No.15491983 >>15491929 There is some hope. Southern California is so ridiculously fertile that a scottsman could piss on it and grow hops, and the Pacific is MADE out of fish. If the Romans were to spread out along the coast and rely heavily on fishing for a few years, they might be able to get something resembling agriculture going with corn. Other problems with less in the way of answers are: -Women -Domestic animals (would they be able to breed more horses with their limited stock?) -Metal (with zero in the way of native exploitation, how the hell would the Romans find and harvest more metal for tools and weapons? ) -Alcohol (The Romans relied so much on f------ vinegar for everything that they'd probably kill themselves if they realized they were going to run out.) O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)11:58 No.15492119 >>15491983 It seems to me that the shock of the transition would either cause the Romans to march inland/along the coast and die, or spread out relatively widely, developing agricultural and fishing systems quickly (after all, they would have had plenty of former farmers). There would be a LOT of breeding with native women, but Roman culture would probably be pretty much upheld, and you'd end up with a very self-reliant, organized nation with one hell of a founding story. Also, with no Christanity and no dark ages, you'd probably have a very different idea of science and philosophy. I'd guess that very logical, Grecian philosophy mixed with Roman ideals of self-reliance and the State would be the main influence on their culture, and rather than the scientific method they would be focused around heavy engineering based on theoretical innovations, rather than the hypothesis, trial, implementation method. Chances are that means bigger buildings, and a focus on practicality. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)12:26 No.15492311 >>15492201 The legions carried everything with them. They were basically living on the stone age wherever they went, carrying everything they needed with them. They even had their own smiths. Raw materials will be a problem, but in no way would the legions be in "deep s---". We're talking about a fully self-sufficient force capable of fending for themselves. Granted, there will likely be bitching when it comes time to reforge some of those weapons into farmtools and it will be a pretty "You want to WHAT?" when someone mentions that we're better off with rudimentary spears, resource-wise, than full swords; but no, that's not "Deep s---". O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)12:31 No.15492353 >>15492311 Didn't they also have the usual train of prostitutes, traders etc.? Have a large enough base of women, and you might not even need the natives (who'd probably be dying off from European diseases anyway). Hell. plonk an apothecary or two and you've got the basis for a city right there. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)12:32 No.15492365 A fascinating idea. I think the legion would be just fine. After a century or two of establishing an economic and cultural base, they would begin a conquest of the coasts or california and uniting all the various tribes. You know, kind of like EXACTLY how Rome itself came to be. It would basically be the Aeneid all over again. I also like the idea of native auxiliaries that were mentioned by another anon earlier. Most of the tribesmen would be trained/cultured to fight in the roman style, but Rome as also famous for taking the concepts and tactics of their enemies into their own ways of fighting, and then improving upon them. I'm now imagining lorica wearing, face-painted, tomahawk wielding skirmishers that shout war cries as they charge into battle for scalp trophies to present to Caesar, the son of the Jupiter Eagle. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)12:33 No.15492371 >>15492311 That's pretty deep s---. Anywhere else, at any point in history, pretty much no matter who you took as your control group, that would be the apocalypse. Romans are just abnormally buoyant in s---. Romans live in the s--- pool. Romans can tread s--- indefinitely. So they'll live. But this is a phenomenally bad situation, even for them. Evidently they survive and prosper, since we can already see into the future a thousand years and they now run the entire continent, but nobody's going to be looking back at this time as a happy one. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)12:37 No.15492407 The Natives shouldn't be underestimated but we're talking about Romans fighting in a land with a lot of open plains in a land where NOBODY has horses. That in mind, will the Romans have enough horses with them to maintain a breeding stock? What the f--- are they going to do for communication and supply without all those horses? O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)12:43 No.15492451 >>15492407 I would assume that as soon as the romans figured out they weren't in Roman Kansas any more, they would immediately build a frontier fort and settle into one spot. The war horses would be preserved, because people aren't stupid about wasting extremely valuable war horses. So basically, they would probably cut their active cavalry cohort in half, keeping one half combat ready and the other half for breeding. Wait. F---. Weren't warhorses primarily stallions? I don't know if they would even have female horses for breeding, which f------ sucks for EVERYONE since horses are an integral part of society at that time period. Horses were used for EVERYTHING O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)12:46 No.15492476 >>15492407 I'd say it would depend on how much of their force was auxiliary cavalry. Conveniently, we know that the man in charge of this expedition was f------ Crassus, who had a force with enormous cavalry support for a Roman army of his day, because he knew he was going to be fighting Parthians. However he ended up in China and then America, that means he's got a good, diverse stock of horse, with more probably drawn from Bactria and the verious Hellanistic and Persian demikingdoms in that region. So assuming total manpower including support personnel, slaves and w----- in the baggage train totals out to about 50,000, horsepower and mules should probably number in the region of 20,000. Mules, of course, are sterile, so when they're done they're done, but there also might be civilian donkeys to breed (they did have to pass through Asia Minor...) chickens were usually kept with the army for the officers, cows are a longshot but conceivable, as milk was believed helpful for the wounded, and pigs are a moot point since the west coast is f------ made of boars. They'll probably manage. The biggest threat to Roman survival right now is the potential of disease. The Black Death hasn't happened yet, nor has Smallpox, which were the two major killers of the natives. Obviously tedious s--- like the flu and the measles will probably kill umpteen million of them, but what if something hits them back? The Romans did not have as sound of a grasp of medicine or disease as the historic European colonists did, after all. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)13:03 No.15492669 >>15492371 Oh, don't get me wrong (I'm the one you responded to). I didn't mean to say that they weren't in s---. Just not DEEP s---. I mean, they'll have a hard time, but there's no way in hell that the first two generations will have much of a problem, due to the know-how and resources they have with them (after all, with a smith, the armors and weapon, these could last for years of continuous use or be reforged) And after those two-or-so (I'm pulling "two generations" out my ass here; it just seems like a reasonable number in my head) generations, they should have everything necessary up and running. I mean, not only would they have tents, ditches and fortifications up and running the first night, but within a week you'd have a full fort. Fun fact: EVERY time the Roman Legions made camp, they made fortifications. Every single night. In times of great war or when many legions marched together, entire regions were deforested, just because they needed fortifications for nightfall. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)13:05 No.15492690 >European explorers arrive >"Ave, fishermen. We are not familiar with your tribe, but we greet you." >"We're not fishermen, we're... Are you speaking Latin?" >"...Yes. Why?" >"Nevermind. We're from Spain." >"...I do not know of this Spain." >"Look, nevermind, we just got here from across the sea, we're looking for India. Is this India?" >"I have never heard of, nor seen an India. Perhaps it is one of the local tribes?" >"No, nevermind. You are very strange, you speak a very old language, and that armor, it reminds me of something. I say, may I ask you something?" >"What is it, friend?" >"Where does that road you're paving lead?" >"Where do all roads lead?" O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)13:07 No.15492715 GUYS we should think about what the Romans would make of the event. When OP's players come in 2 thousand years later, OP better have an f------ awesome myth of the founding of the Atlantean Empire. Maybe some sort of fusion between Roman and Native American mythology? I don't know a thing about early Native American mythology. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)13:13 No.15492777 >>15492715 >l don't know a thing about early Native American mythology. That's because there weren't really any (at least not when we showed up) a uniform myth. It's a mish-mash of animism and shamanism. All in all, it's pretty easy to reconcile with the Greco-Roman faith, actually, especially if you consider that the Roman faith was pretty monolithic in it's dieties, while the indians were a diverse number of minor myths about a number of animal dieties or creationary spirits. So take the regular polytheistic faith of the Romans (Or any old European faith, really) and then allow for various minor spirits. Obviously, the great spirits will be merged with pre-existing Gods. Jupiter may aquire eagle-like characteristics, for example. But overall, split the faith in two. One with dominant, monolithic gods, subject to the traditional hierarchy. And another part, venerating the spirits of any one animal, or the spirits of a forest. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)13:17 No.15492814 >>15492777 >Roman faith >monolithic Only if you use 'monolithic' to mean "Hey, there's this god that people over there pray to. They're now part of the Empire... and, hey, look! That god is really a facet of INSERTGODOFCHOICEHERE." O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)13:07 No.15492719 File1309972054.jpg-(15 KB, 220x220, 220px-Roman_Cavalry_2[1].jpg) >>15492407 >That in mind, will the Romans have enough horses with them to maintain a breeding stock? Are we talking a full legion here? If so, yes. There may be some inbreeding for a few generations, but nothing major enough to substantially degenerate the stock. I mean, yeah, sure, they would possibly degenerate a bit, but not to the point of not being useful for breeding anymore. Yeah that's right kids; The romans had horses and the romans had cavalry, even though you never get to see them in all the fancy movies. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)13:55 No.15493096 File1309974944.jpg-(102 KB, 576x542, road[1].jpg) >>15492895 >Would legions have people with them who would understand how a lot of Roman technology worked? The Legion would have well-educated nobles in the top tiers, as well a an assorted number of learned men, and assistants. Each squad (I forget their name) had at least one man that could read/write. On top of all that, the Legion would certainly have at least a group of military engineers capable of building or organizing the construction of everything from battlements to aqueducts. Add to that apprentices of those military engineers. Fun roman fact: Did you know that the Roman Legions were the ones to build most of the roads in the Roman State? As they marched from one place to another, they also put up new roads. This was such a bitch a number of small rebellions happened over it, but they did it, and roads were the foundation of both troop movements and commerce. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)14:01 No.15493134 Also, don't forget that the Roman economy depended upon slaves. In the end, the legionnaires are not farmers. In my mind, they would likely start enslaving surrounding tribes fairly quickly. Both for breeding and work. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)15:18 No.15493700 I foresee a lot of the local natives simply moving away from the Romans. There were few to no major agricultural settlements anywhere on the continent at the time. In fact, the archaeological record is pretty spotty at about 50AD in North America. Let's assume the Romans catch, r---/enslave, and generally colonize California and the surrounding regions for a good few hundred years and don't manage to make contact with Teotihuacan before its collapse around 600AD. The Maya flourished in the jungles of modern Guatemala and Chiapas, Mexico until 950 AD (collapse of their empire, not that they disappeared). That's a long time for a highly ambitious empire like the Americo-Romans to make contact with. The people that would become the Aztecs migrated south from Utah in the 1300s, following a dwarf (you heard me, a dwarf, like the Gimli kind) named Huitzilopotchli to Mexico (Our stout friend would turn into a rock on the way and have to be carried). Would the Americo-Romans interrupt that migration? What then? O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)15:26 No.15493753 >>15493728 though they'd probably contact the Aztecs prior to the height of their civilization which might spur on advances in Aztec culture. In the event the Romans don't take over the Aztecs for whatever reason, they won't be pushovers by the time the Spanish arrive O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)15:26 No.15493756 File1309980381.jpg-(67 KB, 1004x358, take all my money.jpg) STAKETHIS MYLOVE MY ANGER AND ALL OF MY MONEY! Oh, god, Aztec culture and Roman style armors blended... O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)15:53 No.15493960 >>15493876 The general tack of colonization, though, will be interesting, as it will originate from the west. I'm seeing an expedition across the peninsula somewhere around Oaxaca / Vera Cruz, since the other options are OVER A FUCKHUGE MOUNTAIN, ACROSS A FUCKHUGE DESERT, or THROUGH THE FUCKHUGE JUNGLE. (Which is going to be the impression the Roman transplants take away from their new surrounds - everything is FUCKHUGE.) If they continue tracking the coast, they'll come up to Fuckhuge Swamp and the estuary of the Fuckhuge River. They go far enough upriver, they'll come to the confluences of the Mississippi and the Ohio, and then the Mississippi and the Missouri. They'll look east and see forested hills and fertile floodplains. They'll look west and see the FUCKHUGE PLAINS. Jackpot. This is why I see the eventual capital of Atlantis sitting somewhere between St. Louis and Cairo, IL. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)16:05 No.15494070 >>15493985 Now we're getting into cultural questions. How strongly do they associate with The Event that dumped them in Cali? Do their cultural mores outweigh sensible logistics? Does the first settlement become more than just another in a long series of outposts, and does culture and governance eventually flow from there? In that case, I see them having administrative capitals elsewhere but the spiritual (and core governmental capital) would remain in California. But Romans are noted pragmatists. Running the colonization of an entire continent from the tiny sliver of land between the FUCKHUGE Mountains and the FUCKHUGE Ocean, bordered to the south by the FUCKHUGE Desert? Bad logistics. It might even doom them to being a regional player. (Which, we know they're not. They won. We're figuring out the how.) O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)16:05 No.15494072 >>15494003 And when some well to do tinkerer gets his hands on some fine spun decorative copper, some lemon juice or vinegar, some clay pots, and some iron (smelted into small bars and ingots), with a tiny bit of a mixup in storage? O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)16:16 No.15494146 >>15494003 I can see the various client states and regions pledging various degrees of allegiance to Atlantis, possibly engaging in some spirited border skirmishes and maybe an outright smash and grab or two. I think the biggest thing that would keep the Atlantean Empire intact as a continental body would be good ol' Roman pragmatism. You pay lip service to Atlantis, submit your taxes (nearly) as ordered and (relatively) on time, and you supply legions as requested. You do this, and you're mostly left alone to do as you see fit. You fail to do this or refuse, and the REST of the legions are going to come methodically destroy and enslave you, and put someone better-behaved in your place. It would only be if the totality of the Empire fell apart, and NOBODY was supplying legions to enforce Atlantis' will, that would result in mass balkanization. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)16:58 No.15494557 >>15494072 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_Battery And telegraph lines. How much easier would running an empire be with some of those, eh? O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)17:22 No.15494807 What did we say, anyway? Since I'm not American, I just sorta phased out when people started talking about location, with mention of a bunch of locations that meant nothing to me. They appear on the west coast? North or South? I can see them following the coastline, mostly, really. Especially since they have no idea where they are - for all we know, they can consider it another coastline of the Mediterranean for years, maybe several hundred, depending on their technological development and spread. I don't think they took any astronomers with them and the odds of there being seamen is low. Although it's not inconceivable that there are. Not being able to immediately find well-known astronomical markers may be a dead tipoff that they may be in Kansas evermore. I don't see them holding together a Americas-spanning Empire befor the advent of the telegraph and train a reason the Roman grew up aro the Medit ot of travel will be by boat for a very long time. anea Although it would be f------ awesome if they could devise long-range travel by special aqueducts. Actually, this raises a pretty interesting question, now that I think about it. There wasn't really anything preventing the romans from cross-atlantic travel. And these people will obviously have boats. And chances that they are still on Terra (Mars is where he's supposed to be. So is Jupiter. And if anyone had any doubts, Luna is right f------ there, every night). that they will be able to readily identify specific astronomical markers in order to establish Who's to say that they don't just up and sail home after a hundred-or-so years? Or even less, provided they can find the resources. Just throwing it out there. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)17:29 No.15494878 >>15494807 romans really didnt have the kind of boats required to cross an ocean also it is perfectly possible for the Cali-romans to stumle upon using electricity though happy accidents that result in something akin to a baghdad batter and then experimenting with it I think given their circumstances they'd have had to experiment with all sorts of things around them to figure out how to best make use of what they have since most of the plants and wildlife around is unlike what they'd be used to maybe have it so the cali-romans are signifigantly more advanced with electricity to the point of having telegraphs but they are lagging behind europeans with gunpowder? O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)17:31 No.15494906 Wait, what about the Chinese? Would there be a big Chinese myth about how they used their magic to disappear a goddamn Roman Legion? Would they remember it on the off chance the Atlantean Empire expanded off into the Pacific? O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)17:35 No.15494944 >>15494906 they'd have legends of robed sorcerer monks from the far east, inflated into legendary hyperboles over time if they found china again they'd probably want to pick up where their ancestors left off O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)17:41 No.15495006 >>15494878 Sure, but if they're smart enough to pick up telegraphs, then they're not going to take more than one or two encounters to begin experimenting for gunpowder. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)17:50 No.15495099 >>15495006 Gunpowder came about in China because someone was trying to find an immortality drug and discovered that if you mix charcoal, sulfur, and saltpeter, that s--- explodes. I don't know about charcoal, but if you had a Atlantean tinkerer or chemist somewhere around that could find an excuse to put all that stuff together -maybe for introducing incense to some new Roman/Native American cult around Portland, Oregon, or some damn thing- you'd have gunpowder. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)17:54 No.15495137 On the one hand you have maybe 70-100 european explorers armed mostly with swords and crossbows, with a few guns and maybe a cannon or two thrown in. The wealthy will have a horse, which in fact kicks them up into a higher catagory when the loot is divided. Armor is mostly a steel breastplate and helmet. On the other you have the entirety of the Tenth Legion and four cohorts of Sioux Auxila and two of Huron. I know who I'm placing my money on. The Romans will have gunpowder tech a few weeks after they capture a few guns. And if they capture a few guns, they're gonna capture more then a few Spaniards. Who, properly motivated, will teach the romans how to make gunpowder. And Guns. Ten years later the Senate orders 12 legions to launch an invasion against Spain under the command of the rising star Marcus Four Winds Crassus. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)17:55 No.15495155 >>15495099 Indeed, I didn't mean to imply that they wouldn't have gunpowder, only that they would be behind at it in relation to the europeans giving the telegraphs and similarly leveled electrical technologies would give europeans a profound sense of wonder and awe O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)17:58 No.15495183 >>15495137 and then they learn what happened to the 'old rome' O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)18:08 No.15495282 >>15495183 >Implying a unified rome with the resources of north america wouldn't totally destroy most of Europe. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)18:11 No.15495314 >>15495282 World War 1 comes early in this timeline O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)18:22 No.15495416 >>15495314 It'd make for a fuckawesome global war, but I actually think it'd stave off WWI. wWI came about because of tensions between the European nations; if they had an outside enemy to worry about, they might well have banded together against it and smoothed over their problems. Whether hostilities would break out between them and Ameri-Romans, l'm not sure. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)18:24 No.15495439 >>15495416 well I was just saying that war between Ameri-Rome and europe would be large enough to be called a world war though it'd be a hell of a lot different O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)18:33 No.15495520 >>15495487 also the Aztecs might have wisened up a bit through their contact with Rome to actually persist long enough to be considered a regional contender if they get their game enough to conclude peace treaties with rome they might take to conquering southward outside of rome's reach O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)18:36 No.15495548 >>15495520 The thought of an Aztec empire, battle hardened by fights with Romans resisting a Spanish invasion and unifying all of South America under Aztec rule is terrifying. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)18:38 No.15495583 >>15495548 WHICH MAKES IT F------ HORRIFYINGLY AWESOME O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)18:41 No.15495611 >>15495548 Gentlemen. Roman North Americans Aztec South Americans Chinese East Asians Prussian Europeans Russian West Asians Persian Middle Easterners And.. someone in africa. The wars will go on forever. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)18:43 No.15495630 >>15495611 F--- IT. INDIA UNITES SOMEHOW. THIS WORLD WILL NEVER LEAVE A STATE OF WAR. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)18:45 No.15495655 Also, it should be noted that Roman politics can be pretty vicious. 1000 years is easily enough time to have a civil war. O Cerebrate Anon 07/06/11(Wed)18:58 No.15495805 Any decent inspection of this will have the Romans popping up in the middle of the Mayan Empire, and homogenizing with them to become a massive continent-spanning superpower. They will worship a mix of the Roman gods and the Mayan gods, and the interactions thereof should make it obvious that they are completely juxtaposed, and yet everybody should still believe them. The disease thing will be a problem, but the Romans were very good at getting women and children from their conquered lands. I daresay the human sacrifice will be limited to men above the age that they could have been converted to RoMayans. The thing to ask about it whether they will have developed firearms. The Romans certainly had the knack for innovation that could have led to them, but would they have bothered, when all the locals could be conquered with the equipment the Legionnaires already had? Be sure to mix names, and have a new Praetorian Guard that protects the High Priests. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)19:44 No.15496237 >>15496000 If they're finding most of their women among native tribes - and in other words, having native women raising their children - then they will (whether willingly or not) end up with culture that's mostly based on the native americans. Maybe not immediately, but within a few generations. Government, laws, and whatnot will be Roman simply because those are much slower to change, but religion, folklore, and so on will be mostly native. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)19:52 No.15496296 >>15491610 It's something worth noting that the concept of infinity is something that really frightened and confused the ancient Greeks and Romans. This ought to be taken into account when they are thrust into an environment that that is defined by how vast it is. FUCKHUGE mountains to the east that are followed by FUCKHUGE plains of eternity and FUCKHUGE deserts of infinity to the south. This is going to be something that they will have difficulty coping with culturally. It's also worth noting that the Romans put much more emphasis on oratory, philosophy, and the arts then they did on technlogical innovation. That was more of a greek thing. That was not to say that iinnovation did not take place, it certainly did as the Romans were a very, very pragmatic and practical bunch, but it is something that will very much affect this new empire, as they are deprived of Greece. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)20:36 No.15496685 >>15496510 The followers of the Jupiter Eagle, the traditionalists, still keep slaves, but the most populous areas of the empire have converted to the worship of the Great Spirit/White Buffalo - which would function as a Christianity analog that reintroduces Hellenic and Stoic concepts of mercy and temperance that a Roman legion would have been quick to forget. So the modernizers from the big Midwest metropolitan areas, only incorporated a few hundred years ago (history being unfuc while the colony of traditionalists who sailed from St.Louisium to New Orleanium (or marched there across Texas) and from there into the South would be planters exercising brutal latifundium. for a while East of the allows the Sioux to develop or something like that), would be worshipers who consider slavery to be decadent and cruel, Anyway, in the initial scenario - Roman disease wipes out most central californian Indians. The survivors escape as refugees, spreading the disease in less extravagant amounts to the Pacific Northwest fisher tribes and the Southwest river-huddling desert farmers. The Romans incorporate a few slaves into their population, ones that don't die or escape as refugees - and they help the Romans with languages and developing disease tolerance (a handful of slaves enough to spread mostly non-fatal outbreaks of local diseases). Now, would the Romans start farming or is more in their character to march/roadbuild/fortbuild as they are prone to do up into the Northwest to get fish or down into the deserts to conquer proto-pueblo and relatively prosperous river-based farmers growing corn and whatnot? Corn would be a big deal. O Cerebrate Anon 07/06/11(Wed)21:53 No.15497382 >>15497305 Always with the animals. Kokopelli, the trickster who brings rain, crops, babies, and sometimes has little fun with the ladies using his detachable penis! Nanook, Master of Bears! Glooscap, who bound up the great eagle whose flapping wings created unbearable storms! Not to mention the mesoamerican gods. It's much more likely that the Romans would blend the animal deities into nymphs or transformed gods, whereas many of the actual anthropomorphized deities would actually be assimilated. O Anonymous 07/07/11(Thu)12:32 No.15503507 >>15501122 >>15500430 So with double the legion in camp followers, 7 legions, each of 6000 men at fresh fighting strength (ie: no casualties since leaving rome)... 42000 Legionnaires 84000 Camp followers. 126000 Romans suddenly appearing on the west cost of the US, with 1/3 of them trained to fight. Yeah, the natives are f-----.](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/002/179/726/788.png)
![File : 1309963244.jpg-(113 KB, 699x312, Romans_Americans.jpg) O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)10:40 No.15491610 Ok /tg/, my next campaign involves a bunch of Romans (led by a much less killed by Parthians Crassus) who ended up landing in what is now Los Angeles, from around the year 50 BC, thanks to Chinese magic warping their inconvenient expedition 'somewhere out of the way.' The better part of two thousand years later, explorers from Europe bumble into the Americas while looking for tea, and find an eerily familiar "Atlantean Empire" just constructing ships of their own to figure out what is on the other side of that very same ocean. Those European explorers are my players. So /tg/, I need ideas for how Romans+Native Americans would look culturally, militarily and as an Empire. This is of course assuming that even with their initial advantage and powerful culture, the Romans would've had to absorb many times their number worth of Americans to survive in their new home, and thus, would probably have adopted a lot of distinctly I---- traits alongside their own. Also, is this a cool idea, y/n? O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)10:46 No.15491637 Hmm. I'm tempted to say that, with the Native American stance on landownership (you don't, and how could you?), land might be considered a matter of the res publica rather than a private person's. (This assumes the Romans accept the idea of shared landownership and integrate that with the idea of the public matter, rather than go LOL NO and hand out I---- lands for their veterans.) >Antipater temonas How Roman of you, captcha. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)10:47 No.15491649 >>15491637 I've serious doubts that they would harmonize their ideals with the Injuns. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)10:50 No.15491664 File1309963816.jpg-(192 KB, 1024x819, Roman Sophitia.jpg) I can't see the Romans respecting a people who haven't figured out how to fight real wars yet. West coast native americans were very much this. They were less developed than the aborigines for God's sake, at least the Australian natives had figured out spears. Then again, it probably won't matter, because of how many goddamn women they're going to need to buy or steal. I don't know how many chicks these guys thought to bring along, but unless they invented co-ed legions while I wasn't looking, they're going to have to pull the whole Sabine Women thing every other day for the first few decades if they want a stable population base. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)10:51 No.15491676 >>15491637 Two generations after the Romans build their first city, every kid from all the tribes in the area will either have citizenship or be waiting for one. Wisdom of the land and harmony with the spirits is fine only as long as you don't have an alternative. Romans got so big because most of the conquered populations wanted to be Romans, too. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)10:58 No.15491753 >>15491649 >l've serious doubts that they would harmonize their ideals with the Injuns. This. We're talking about a Roman Legion in a climate reminiscent of their home (i.e. not too hot, not too cold). They certainly wouldn't be starving or dying. They would impose their upon the Natives. End off. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)11:01 No.15491792 Don't forget the effect of introducing European disease into the Americas fifteen hundred years early. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)11:03 No.15491811 >>15491758 I think it would end up like this: Alright you savages, listen up. We're right, you're wrong. You believe what we believe now. That thing you always believe in? Turns out it was secretly this thing we believe in. And a bunch of Indian slowly trying to merge their ancestors stuff with the shiny people's beliefs. So what we end up with is a clusterfuck of Native American ideas with a Roman veneer. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)11:08 No.15491842 File1309964901.jpg-(21 KB, 143x231, Zeus_Troll.jpg) >>15491811 >mfw Coyote was just Zeus coming down in animal form to r--- delicious squaw O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)11:10 No.15491850 >>15491610 >constructing ships of their own to figure out what is on the other side of that very same ocean. I don't need to tell you how f------ bad this is for Europe, do l? O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)11:13 No.15491868 /tg/ dismisses the native Americans too easily. When they weren't fighting people with guns, they did pretty damn well. They regularly slapped the Viking's s--- if you remember. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)11:18 No. 15491900 >>15491868 That's true. But those were East-Coast indians, fighting against what amounted to the crews of boats. This is a fully formed land army that somehow ended up in West-Coast America. The western injuns did not have a particularly well honed martial tradition. Didn't even have the concept of dedicated melee weapons down, as far as I know. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)11:39 No.15491983 >>15491929 There is some hope. Southern California is so ridiculously fertile that a scottsman could piss on it and grow hops, and the Pacific is MADE out of fish. If the Romans were to spread out along the coast and rely heavily on fishing for a few years, they might be able to get something resembling agriculture going with corn. Other problems with less in the way of answers are: -Women -Domestic animals (would they be able to breed more horses with their limited stock?) -Metal (with zero in the way of native exploitation, how the hell would the Romans find and harvest more metal for tools and weapons? ) -Alcohol (The Romans relied so much on f------ vinegar for everything that they'd probably kill themselves if they realized they were going to run out.) O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)11:58 No.15492119 >>15491983 It seems to me that the shock of the transition would either cause the Romans to march inland/along the coast and die, or spread out relatively widely, developing agricultural and fishing systems quickly (after all, they would have had plenty of former farmers). There would be a LOT of breeding with native women, but Roman culture would probably be pretty much upheld, and you'd end up with a very self-reliant, organized nation with one hell of a founding story. Also, with no Christanity and no dark ages, you'd probably have a very different idea of science and philosophy. I'd guess that very logical, Grecian philosophy mixed with Roman ideals of self-reliance and the State would be the main influence on their culture, and rather than the scientific method they would be focused around heavy engineering based on theoretical innovations, rather than the hypothesis, trial, implementation method. Chances are that means bigger buildings, and a focus on practicality. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)12:26 No.15492311 >>15492201 The legions carried everything with them. They were basically living on the stone age wherever they went, carrying everything they needed with them. They even had their own smiths. Raw materials will be a problem, but in no way would the legions be in "deep s---". We're talking about a fully self-sufficient force capable of fending for themselves. Granted, there will likely be bitching when it comes time to reforge some of those weapons into farmtools and it will be a pretty "You want to WHAT?" when someone mentions that we're better off with rudimentary spears, resource-wise, than full swords; but no, that's not "Deep s---". O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)12:31 No.15492353 >>15492311 Didn't they also have the usual train of prostitutes, traders etc.? Have a large enough base of women, and you might not even need the natives (who'd probably be dying off from European diseases anyway). Hell. plonk an apothecary or two and you've got the basis for a city right there. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)12:32 No.15492365 A fascinating idea. I think the legion would be just fine. After a century or two of establishing an economic and cultural base, they would begin a conquest of the coasts or california and uniting all the various tribes. You know, kind of like EXACTLY how Rome itself came to be. It would basically be the Aeneid all over again. I also like the idea of native auxiliaries that were mentioned by another anon earlier. Most of the tribesmen would be trained/cultured to fight in the roman style, but Rome as also famous for taking the concepts and tactics of their enemies into their own ways of fighting, and then improving upon them. I'm now imagining lorica wearing, face-painted, tomahawk wielding skirmishers that shout war cries as they charge into battle for scalp trophies to present to Caesar, the son of the Jupiter Eagle. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)12:33 No.15492371 >>15492311 That's pretty deep s---. Anywhere else, at any point in history, pretty much no matter who you took as your control group, that would be the apocalypse. Romans are just abnormally buoyant in s---. Romans live in the s--- pool. Romans can tread s--- indefinitely. So they'll live. But this is a phenomenally bad situation, even for them. Evidently they survive and prosper, since we can already see into the future a thousand years and they now run the entire continent, but nobody's going to be looking back at this time as a happy one. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)12:37 No.15492407 The Natives shouldn't be underestimated but we're talking about Romans fighting in a land with a lot of open plains in a land where NOBODY has horses. That in mind, will the Romans have enough horses with them to maintain a breeding stock? What the f--- are they going to do for communication and supply without all those horses? O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)12:43 No.15492451 >>15492407 I would assume that as soon as the romans figured out they weren't in Roman Kansas any more, they would immediately build a frontier fort and settle into one spot. The war horses would be preserved, because people aren't stupid about wasting extremely valuable war horses. So basically, they would probably cut their active cavalry cohort in half, keeping one half combat ready and the other half for breeding. Wait. F---. Weren't warhorses primarily stallions? I don't know if they would even have female horses for breeding, which f------ sucks for EVERYONE since horses are an integral part of society at that time period. Horses were used for EVERYTHING O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)12:46 No.15492476 >>15492407 I'd say it would depend on how much of their force was auxiliary cavalry. Conveniently, we know that the man in charge of this expedition was f------ Crassus, who had a force with enormous cavalry support for a Roman army of his day, because he knew he was going to be fighting Parthians. However he ended up in China and then America, that means he's got a good, diverse stock of horse, with more probably drawn from Bactria and the verious Hellanistic and Persian demikingdoms in that region. So assuming total manpower including support personnel, slaves and w----- in the baggage train totals out to about 50,000, horsepower and mules should probably number in the region of 20,000. Mules, of course, are sterile, so when they're done they're done, but there also might be civilian donkeys to breed (they did have to pass through Asia Minor...) chickens were usually kept with the army for the officers, cows are a longshot but conceivable, as milk was believed helpful for the wounded, and pigs are a moot point since the west coast is f------ made of boars. They'll probably manage. The biggest threat to Roman survival right now is the potential of disease. The Black Death hasn't happened yet, nor has Smallpox, which were the two major killers of the natives. Obviously tedious s--- like the flu and the measles will probably kill umpteen million of them, but what if something hits them back? The Romans did not have as sound of a grasp of medicine or disease as the historic European colonists did, after all. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)13:03 No.15492669 >>15492371 Oh, don't get me wrong (I'm the one you responded to). I didn't mean to say that they weren't in s---. Just not DEEP s---. I mean, they'll have a hard time, but there's no way in hell that the first two generations will have much of a problem, due to the know-how and resources they have with them (after all, with a smith, the armors and weapon, these could last for years of continuous use or be reforged) And after those two-or-so (I'm pulling "two generations" out my ass here; it just seems like a reasonable number in my head) generations, they should have everything necessary up and running. I mean, not only would they have tents, ditches and fortifications up and running the first night, but within a week you'd have a full fort. Fun fact: EVERY time the Roman Legions made camp, they made fortifications. Every single night. In times of great war or when many legions marched together, entire regions were deforested, just because they needed fortifications for nightfall. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)13:05 No.15492690 >European explorers arrive >"Ave, fishermen. We are not familiar with your tribe, but we greet you." >"We're not fishermen, we're... Are you speaking Latin?" >"...Yes. Why?" >"Nevermind. We're from Spain." >"...I do not know of this Spain." >"Look, nevermind, we just got here from across the sea, we're looking for India. Is this India?" >"I have never heard of, nor seen an India. Perhaps it is one of the local tribes?" >"No, nevermind. You are very strange, you speak a very old language, and that armor, it reminds me of something. I say, may I ask you something?" >"What is it, friend?" >"Where does that road you're paving lead?" >"Where do all roads lead?" O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)13:07 No.15492715 GUYS we should think about what the Romans would make of the event. When OP's players come in 2 thousand years later, OP better have an f------ awesome myth of the founding of the Atlantean Empire. Maybe some sort of fusion between Roman and Native American mythology? I don't know a thing about early Native American mythology. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)13:13 No.15492777 >>15492715 >l don't know a thing about early Native American mythology. That's because there weren't really any (at least not when we showed up) a uniform myth. It's a mish-mash of animism and shamanism. All in all, it's pretty easy to reconcile with the Greco-Roman faith, actually, especially if you consider that the Roman faith was pretty monolithic in it's dieties, while the indians were a diverse number of minor myths about a number of animal dieties or creationary spirits. So take the regular polytheistic faith of the Romans (Or any old European faith, really) and then allow for various minor spirits. Obviously, the great spirits will be merged with pre-existing Gods. Jupiter may aquire eagle-like characteristics, for example. But overall, split the faith in two. One with dominant, monolithic gods, subject to the traditional hierarchy. And another part, venerating the spirits of any one animal, or the spirits of a forest. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)13:17 No.15492814 >>15492777 >Roman faith >monolithic Only if you use 'monolithic' to mean "Hey, there's this god that people over there pray to. They're now part of the Empire... and, hey, look! That god is really a facet of INSERTGODOFCHOICEHERE." O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)13:07 No.15492719 File1309972054.jpg-(15 KB, 220x220, 220px-Roman_Cavalry_2[1].jpg) >>15492407 >That in mind, will the Romans have enough horses with them to maintain a breeding stock? Are we talking a full legion here? If so, yes. There may be some inbreeding for a few generations, but nothing major enough to substantially degenerate the stock. I mean, yeah, sure, they would possibly degenerate a bit, but not to the point of not being useful for breeding anymore. Yeah that's right kids; The romans had horses and the romans had cavalry, even though you never get to see them in all the fancy movies. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)13:55 No.15493096 File1309974944.jpg-(102 KB, 576x542, road[1].jpg) >>15492895 >Would legions have people with them who would understand how a lot of Roman technology worked? The Legion would have well-educated nobles in the top tiers, as well a an assorted number of learned men, and assistants. Each squad (I forget their name) had at least one man that could read/write. On top of all that, the Legion would certainly have at least a group of military engineers capable of building or organizing the construction of everything from battlements to aqueducts. Add to that apprentices of those military engineers. Fun roman fact: Did you know that the Roman Legions were the ones to build most of the roads in the Roman State? As they marched from one place to another, they also put up new roads. This was such a bitch a number of small rebellions happened over it, but they did it, and roads were the foundation of both troop movements and commerce. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)14:01 No.15493134 Also, don't forget that the Roman economy depended upon slaves. In the end, the legionnaires are not farmers. In my mind, they would likely start enslaving surrounding tribes fairly quickly. Both for breeding and work. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)15:18 No.15493700 I foresee a lot of the local natives simply moving away from the Romans. There were few to no major agricultural settlements anywhere on the continent at the time. In fact, the archaeological record is pretty spotty at about 50AD in North America. Let's assume the Romans catch, r---/enslave, and generally colonize California and the surrounding regions for a good few hundred years and don't manage to make contact with Teotihuacan before its collapse around 600AD. The Maya flourished in the jungles of modern Guatemala and Chiapas, Mexico until 950 AD (collapse of their empire, not that they disappeared). That's a long time for a highly ambitious empire like the Americo-Romans to make contact with. The people that would become the Aztecs migrated south from Utah in the 1300s, following a dwarf (you heard me, a dwarf, like the Gimli kind) named Huitzilopotchli to Mexico (Our stout friend would turn into a rock on the way and have to be carried). Would the Americo-Romans interrupt that migration? What then? O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)15:26 No.15493753 >>15493728 though they'd probably contact the Aztecs prior to the height of their civilization which might spur on advances in Aztec culture. In the event the Romans don't take over the Aztecs for whatever reason, they won't be pushovers by the time the Spanish arrive O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)15:26 No.15493756 File1309980381.jpg-(67 KB, 1004x358, take all my money.jpg) STAKETHIS MYLOVE MY ANGER AND ALL OF MY MONEY! Oh, god, Aztec culture and Roman style armors blended... O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)15:53 No.15493960 >>15493876 The general tack of colonization, though, will be interesting, as it will originate from the west. I'm seeing an expedition across the peninsula somewhere around Oaxaca / Vera Cruz, since the other options are OVER A FUCKHUGE MOUNTAIN, ACROSS A FUCKHUGE DESERT, or THROUGH THE FUCKHUGE JUNGLE. (Which is going to be the impression the Roman transplants take away from their new surrounds - everything is FUCKHUGE.) If they continue tracking the coast, they'll come up to Fuckhuge Swamp and the estuary of the Fuckhuge River. They go far enough upriver, they'll come to the confluences of the Mississippi and the Ohio, and then the Mississippi and the Missouri. They'll look east and see forested hills and fertile floodplains. They'll look west and see the FUCKHUGE PLAINS. Jackpot. This is why I see the eventual capital of Atlantis sitting somewhere between St. Louis and Cairo, IL. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)16:05 No.15494070 >>15493985 Now we're getting into cultural questions. How strongly do they associate with The Event that dumped them in Cali? Do their cultural mores outweigh sensible logistics? Does the first settlement become more than just another in a long series of outposts, and does culture and governance eventually flow from there? In that case, I see them having administrative capitals elsewhere but the spiritual (and core governmental capital) would remain in California. But Romans are noted pragmatists. Running the colonization of an entire continent from the tiny sliver of land between the FUCKHUGE Mountains and the FUCKHUGE Ocean, bordered to the south by the FUCKHUGE Desert? Bad logistics. It might even doom them to being a regional player. (Which, we know they're not. They won. We're figuring out the how.) O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)16:05 No.15494072 >>15494003 And when some well to do tinkerer gets his hands on some fine spun decorative copper, some lemon juice or vinegar, some clay pots, and some iron (smelted into small bars and ingots), with a tiny bit of a mixup in storage? O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)16:16 No.15494146 >>15494003 I can see the various client states and regions pledging various degrees of allegiance to Atlantis, possibly engaging in some spirited border skirmishes and maybe an outright smash and grab or two. I think the biggest thing that would keep the Atlantean Empire intact as a continental body would be good ol' Roman pragmatism. You pay lip service to Atlantis, submit your taxes (nearly) as ordered and (relatively) on time, and you supply legions as requested. You do this, and you're mostly left alone to do as you see fit. You fail to do this or refuse, and the REST of the legions are going to come methodically destroy and enslave you, and put someone better-behaved in your place. It would only be if the totality of the Empire fell apart, and NOBODY was supplying legions to enforce Atlantis' will, that would result in mass balkanization. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)16:58 No.15494557 >>15494072 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_Battery And telegraph lines. How much easier would running an empire be with some of those, eh? O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)17:22 No.15494807 What did we say, anyway? Since I'm not American, I just sorta phased out when people started talking about location, with mention of a bunch of locations that meant nothing to me. They appear on the west coast? North or South? I can see them following the coastline, mostly, really. Especially since they have no idea where they are - for all we know, they can consider it another coastline of the Mediterranean for years, maybe several hundred, depending on their technological development and spread. I don't think they took any astronomers with them and the odds of there being seamen is low. Although it's not inconceivable that there are. Not being able to immediately find well-known astronomical markers may be a dead tipoff that they may be in Kansas evermore. I don't see them holding together a Americas-spanning Empire befor the advent of the telegraph and train a reason the Roman grew up aro the Medit ot of travel will be by boat for a very long time. anea Although it would be f------ awesome if they could devise long-range travel by special aqueducts. Actually, this raises a pretty interesting question, now that I think about it. There wasn't really anything preventing the romans from cross-atlantic travel. And these people will obviously have boats. And chances that they are still on Terra (Mars is where he's supposed to be. So is Jupiter. And if anyone had any doubts, Luna is right f------ there, every night). that they will be able to readily identify specific astronomical markers in order to establish Who's to say that they don't just up and sail home after a hundred-or-so years? Or even less, provided they can find the resources. Just throwing it out there. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)17:29 No.15494878 >>15494807 romans really didnt have the kind of boats required to cross an ocean also it is perfectly possible for the Cali-romans to stumle upon using electricity though happy accidents that result in something akin to a baghdad batter and then experimenting with it I think given their circumstances they'd have had to experiment with all sorts of things around them to figure out how to best make use of what they have since most of the plants and wildlife around is unlike what they'd be used to maybe have it so the cali-romans are signifigantly more advanced with electricity to the point of having telegraphs but they are lagging behind europeans with gunpowder? O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)17:31 No.15494906 Wait, what about the Chinese? Would there be a big Chinese myth about how they used their magic to disappear a goddamn Roman Legion? Would they remember it on the off chance the Atlantean Empire expanded off into the Pacific? O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)17:35 No.15494944 >>15494906 they'd have legends of robed sorcerer monks from the far east, inflated into legendary hyperboles over time if they found china again they'd probably want to pick up where their ancestors left off O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)17:41 No.15495006 >>15494878 Sure, but if they're smart enough to pick up telegraphs, then they're not going to take more than one or two encounters to begin experimenting for gunpowder. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)17:50 No.15495099 >>15495006 Gunpowder came about in China because someone was trying to find an immortality drug and discovered that if you mix charcoal, sulfur, and saltpeter, that s--- explodes. I don't know about charcoal, but if you had a Atlantean tinkerer or chemist somewhere around that could find an excuse to put all that stuff together -maybe for introducing incense to some new Roman/Native American cult around Portland, Oregon, or some damn thing- you'd have gunpowder. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)17:54 No.15495137 On the one hand you have maybe 70-100 european explorers armed mostly with swords and crossbows, with a few guns and maybe a cannon or two thrown in. The wealthy will have a horse, which in fact kicks them up into a higher catagory when the loot is divided. Armor is mostly a steel breastplate and helmet. On the other you have the entirety of the Tenth Legion and four cohorts of Sioux Auxila and two of Huron. I know who I'm placing my money on. The Romans will have gunpowder tech a few weeks after they capture a few guns. And if they capture a few guns, they're gonna capture more then a few Spaniards. Who, properly motivated, will teach the romans how to make gunpowder. And Guns. Ten years later the Senate orders 12 legions to launch an invasion against Spain under the command of the rising star Marcus Four Winds Crassus. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)17:55 No.15495155 >>15495099 Indeed, I didn't mean to imply that they wouldn't have gunpowder, only that they would be behind at it in relation to the europeans giving the telegraphs and similarly leveled electrical technologies would give europeans a profound sense of wonder and awe O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)17:58 No.15495183 >>15495137 and then they learn what happened to the 'old rome' O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)18:08 No.15495282 >>15495183 >Implying a unified rome with the resources of north america wouldn't totally destroy most of Europe. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)18:11 No.15495314 >>15495282 World War 1 comes early in this timeline O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)18:22 No.15495416 >>15495314 It'd make for a fuckawesome global war, but I actually think it'd stave off WWI. wWI came about because of tensions between the European nations; if they had an outside enemy to worry about, they might well have banded together against it and smoothed over their problems. Whether hostilities would break out between them and Ameri-Romans, l'm not sure. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)18:24 No.15495439 >>15495416 well I was just saying that war between Ameri-Rome and europe would be large enough to be called a world war though it'd be a hell of a lot different O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)18:33 No.15495520 >>15495487 also the Aztecs might have wisened up a bit through their contact with Rome to actually persist long enough to be considered a regional contender if they get their game enough to conclude peace treaties with rome they might take to conquering southward outside of rome's reach O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)18:36 No.15495548 >>15495520 The thought of an Aztec empire, battle hardened by fights with Romans resisting a Spanish invasion and unifying all of South America under Aztec rule is terrifying. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)18:38 No.15495583 >>15495548 WHICH MAKES IT F------ HORRIFYINGLY AWESOME O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)18:41 No.15495611 >>15495548 Gentlemen. Roman North Americans Aztec South Americans Chinese East Asians Prussian Europeans Russian West Asians Persian Middle Easterners And.. someone in africa. The wars will go on forever. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)18:43 No.15495630 >>15495611 F--- IT. INDIA UNITES SOMEHOW. THIS WORLD WILL NEVER LEAVE A STATE OF WAR. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)18:45 No.15495655 Also, it should be noted that Roman politics can be pretty vicious. 1000 years is easily enough time to have a civil war. O Cerebrate Anon 07/06/11(Wed)18:58 No.15495805 Any decent inspection of this will have the Romans popping up in the middle of the Mayan Empire, and homogenizing with them to become a massive continent-spanning superpower. They will worship a mix of the Roman gods and the Mayan gods, and the interactions thereof should make it obvious that they are completely juxtaposed, and yet everybody should still believe them. The disease thing will be a problem, but the Romans were very good at getting women and children from their conquered lands. I daresay the human sacrifice will be limited to men above the age that they could have been converted to RoMayans. The thing to ask about it whether they will have developed firearms. The Romans certainly had the knack for innovation that could have led to them, but would they have bothered, when all the locals could be conquered with the equipment the Legionnaires already had? Be sure to mix names, and have a new Praetorian Guard that protects the High Priests. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)19:44 No.15496237 >>15496000 If they're finding most of their women among native tribes - and in other words, having native women raising their children - then they will (whether willingly or not) end up with culture that's mostly based on the native americans. Maybe not immediately, but within a few generations. Government, laws, and whatnot will be Roman simply because those are much slower to change, but religion, folklore, and so on will be mostly native. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)19:52 No.15496296 >>15491610 It's something worth noting that the concept of infinity is something that really frightened and confused the ancient Greeks and Romans. This ought to be taken into account when they are thrust into an environment that that is defined by how vast it is. FUCKHUGE mountains to the east that are followed by FUCKHUGE plains of eternity and FUCKHUGE deserts of infinity to the south. This is going to be something that they will have difficulty coping with culturally. It's also worth noting that the Romans put much more emphasis on oratory, philosophy, and the arts then they did on technlogical innovation. That was more of a greek thing. That was not to say that iinnovation did not take place, it certainly did as the Romans were a very, very pragmatic and practical bunch, but it is something that will very much affect this new empire, as they are deprived of Greece. O Anonymous 07/06/11(Wed)20:36 No.15496685 >>15496510 The followers of the Jupiter Eagle, the traditionalists, still keep slaves, but the most populous areas of the empire have converted to the worship of the Great Spirit/White Buffalo - which would function as a Christianity analog that reintroduces Hellenic and Stoic concepts of mercy and temperance that a Roman legion would have been quick to forget. So the modernizers from the big Midwest metropolitan areas, only incorporated a few hundred years ago (history being unfuc while the colony of traditionalists who sailed from St.Louisium to New Orleanium (or marched there across Texas) and from there into the South would be planters exercising brutal latifundium. for a while East of the allows the Sioux to develop or something like that), would be worshipers who consider slavery to be decadent and cruel, Anyway, in the initial scenario - Roman disease wipes out most central californian Indians. The survivors escape as refugees, spreading the disease in less extravagant amounts to the Pacific Northwest fisher tribes and the Southwest river-huddling desert farmers. The Romans incorporate a few slaves into their population, ones that don't die or escape as refugees - and they help the Romans with languages and developing disease tolerance (a handful of slaves enough to spread mostly non-fatal outbreaks of local diseases). Now, would the Romans start farming or is more in their character to march/roadbuild/fortbuild as they are prone to do up into the Northwest to get fish or down into the deserts to conquer proto-pueblo and relatively prosperous river-based farmers growing corn and whatnot? Corn would be a big deal. O Cerebrate Anon 07/06/11(Wed)21:53 No.15497382 >>15497305 Always with the animals. Kokopelli, the trickster who brings rain, crops, babies, and sometimes has little fun with the ladies using his detachable penis! Nanook, Master of Bears! Glooscap, who bound up the great eagle whose flapping wings created unbearable storms! Not to mention the mesoamerican gods. It's much more likely that the Romans would blend the animal deities into nymphs or transformed gods, whereas many of the actual anthropomorphized deities would actually be assimilated. O Anonymous 07/07/11(Thu)12:32 No.15503507 >>15501122 >>15500430 So with double the legion in camp followers, 7 legions, each of 6000 men at fresh fighting strength (ie: no casualties since leaving rome)... 42000 Legionnaires 84000 Camp followers. 126000 Romans suddenly appearing on the west cost of the US, with 1/3 of them trained to fight. Yeah, the natives are f-----.](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/179/726/788.png)
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