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Well i voted for gay marrage in my state. (Maryland).

And it passed…

Did my part

>MFW I’m full gross and weird, and unnatural, and gross, and weird, and gross

I don't support it, but I don't hate it.

Do what you guys want, I just wanted to post my terribly short answer to this question.
BAI GUISE
C YA L8R

There appear to be a lot of gross and weird, and unnatural, and gross, and weird, and gross people on this site

Yeah, and gays too.

yeah, and straight people too

apparently there's this "missionary position" thing that they normally do, what is this disgusting shit?

anyways, human rights are human rights, don't fuck with them

DON'T FUCK WITH THEM

@kim Jong

Hey man, I was wondering if you were going to the funeral…. What funeral you ask?
the funeral for the joke you just killed!

We'll take solace in a Gross and weird, and unnatural, and gross, and weird, and gross General Thread.

That makes for an interesting topic. Perhaps it is a different group of people that I've met all throughout life, but never have I been around so many sexual minorities all in one place, especially since this is not a site specifically about sexual orientation. A large majority of my IRL friends are straight, I don't think any of my close friends are of a sexual minority (and I would hope they know me well enough to be able to come out to me, but I've never had any hint that they weren't attracted to the opposite sex at least,) and no one has ever identified as asexual.

That would be another thread, but considering that sexual orientation supposedly isn't tied to anything outside of itself, this perception (at least) of so many sexual minorities on this site seems to indicate otherwise. It may also be the nature of this thread, but I think we've noticed many asexual, bisexual, homosexual, and/or other sexual minorities on KYM, if not in Web Culture at large.

Damn karma bombers. Fixed again.

>MFW this post is inevitably downvoted

I think if people want to downvote other users, then let them. Just vote the ones that shouldn't be below zero back to neutral, and don't acknowledge the downvotes.

Those users don't matter, and I don't have time to babysit. The people participating and reading the discussion are who matter to me.

What? Just doing the Lord's work in banning the gays. #justsayingitsajoketoplayitsafe

I can't fathom why someone would be against gay marriage. Just because someone is attracted to a different set of genitals than you are doesn't mean you can deny them rights. And marriage does matter, because married couples get things like tax cuts and other fun shit.

I thought we learned from blacks and women that denying rights to someone based on an inconsequential personality aspect is not okay.

HATE CRIME HATE CRIME

Sorry, can't hear your peasant moans so high on the mod ladder.

@Turtle
I get what you mean about it grossing you out. "Gross" may not be the word to describe it for me but I still feel a little weird about the whole idea of sex between members of the same gender even to this day. That's not to say that I don't find it natural, and it's certainly not gonna stop me from supporting gays.
And to be fair, there's no proof that it's not genetic either. I'll bet most gay people didn't choose their sexuality and so the best answer they can come up with for why they are the way they are is genetics

1) Rather than saying it's 'gross', which is kind of immature and insulting, it would probably be better to say you 'personally don't find it appealing', which would be completely understandable considering you're not of that sexual persuasion. That kind of attitude can make things very difficult for gay people as they're growing up, as what feels natural to them is met with disgust by their peers.

2) You should really do some research before making such a confident statement of denial. There's one thing we're pretty much certain of: there is no single cause for homosexuality, and we aren't even close to fully understanding it yet. Anyone who says "it's a choice", "it's environmental", or "it's genetic" is trying to oversimplify the problem. Despite that, we know enough to say "there are most likely contributing genetic factors". If you actually read the Wikipedia page I linked last page, you'll see that there have been plenty of studies which have found genetic similarities throughout gay communities. There are even theories that attempt to explain how those genes could be propagated through the gene pool. Some studies contradict others, which means we probably need more research before coming to any concrete conclusions, but it's almost a certainty that there's something there.

But hey, if you think you know better than the scientific community at large, go ahead and think whatever you want.

I find it odd how homosexuality grosses you out when sex itself is a pretty off putting concept.

Putting yourself into another human being. Lots of bodily fluids involved. Sounds pretty gross in every way possible.

Also, about the genetic thing. I'm no scientist, so I'll let them speak. Unfortunately for you, almost every scientist I know is gay. (I'm seeing a trend here, haha)

+1 vote in favor of.

@Turtle

Evidence of it being genetic is increasing. It may not be solid yet but at this point there isn't that much reason to doubt and there's certainly no reason to stop quoting it unless there is more evidence on the contrary

At the least I think sexuality is driven by hormone levels; both at birth and later on. Exposure to more of the opposite genders hormones either from the mothers womb or from your own production increases the chance that your sexuality will swing the other way, especially if its during development. Hormones are certainly not chosen. Your body makes them, based on how your genes dictate they should

The finger length test leans towards this heavily. Next time you meet a gay guy in person, check to see if the index finger is the longest. A lot of gay guys turn out to have longer index fingers. This is pretty good confirmation that it has a lot to do with how the body naturally develops rather than just decision, personality or environment

As for choice; I don't know a single gay guy that chose to be gay and I know quite a few. But I know some bisexuals/pansexuals that could choose. I attest that sexual choice is possible but only within bisexuals

And before you call it gross, try actually forming friendships with homosexuals. I'm pretty sure you are simply being afraid of a concept that's foreign to you.

"Gay parents always raise gay kids just like straight parents always raise straight kids."
No one would choose adversity just because "it's the cool thing to do" and because their parents told them not to.
There are also gay women so your population hypothesis doesn't stand up.

Also, why would disagree with letting gay people (me included) get married? It's not affecting you or harming you in anyway. We just want to be equal, as does everyone else.

What's odd about it? If you aren't attracted to guys, obviously you won't want to have sex with a guy or even watch it. Sex is all about attraction. If the attraction isn't there, it's unpleasant( gross). If it is, than Its Beautiful( fucking hot).
Now, if he's saying homosexuals in general are gross, then I disagree.

I live in South Carolina, where being gay carries a huge social stigma. I can assure you that no one around me acts gay, yet somehow, I am. If my peers are gay, there's no way of knowing. I'm not trying to be edgy by going against my parents, either. That's just stupid. And as for gay marriage: I really wouldn't care to be married. It's been exclusive to heterosexual couples, and trying to change that is clearly upsetting to some. I say let them have have it.

Statistically, there are more men than women in the world, so I guess gay people are sort of compensating for SOMETHING, but… Still…

You're sorta rendering your opinion invalid without any rebuttal. 50.8% of the US population are women (this makes gender dichotomous, in that there are only men and women when people don't always identify as either, but you get the idea.)

Unless you have some specific murdering going on, you'll find that most countries have slightly more women than men. You'd be…um, alright…if you were talking about lesbians, but it's pretty obvious that you're biased against gay men more than gay women in that statement alone.

I don't mind if you find gay sex gross. But homosexual people/asexual people feel the same way. Moreso, if you think gays should be treated fairly outside of marriage, then know that openly and without shame saying that what they do is gross and unnatural certainly makes them feel ashamed for no good reason. Just keep that sort of language to yourself.

As for nature vs. nurture…I studied that for about three years…and in another area for another three years…and in another area for about two years.

Let me tell you why you can't trust the social sciences…

People are dirty liars, they don't know crap about themselves, and Freud was on to something in regards to subconscious desires, but we'll never be able to prove it, so it's less about truths and more about theories that are impossible to prove and very difficult to support. It's part of the field.

But I'd like to see your sources. I don't remember anything from my courses on human sexuality that confirms or even supports some of your claims (i.e., those raised in an environmental with homosexuals are more likely to become homosexual themselves; those who say that their children must not be gay are more likely to identify as gay.) I'm actually subscribed to a LGBT listserv that sends recent study results to me (from the Williams Institute. I'd suggest getting in on that to become better informed. I think you'll find that you'll get less heat if you are able to cite sources and point to actual evidence.) You'll still be considered prejudiced, but I can't help you there.

You're free to believe what you want about gay marriage, but you shouldn't infringe (at least as the US has equality listed) upon their rights to marriage. However, if you can point out somewhere in the Constitution where it can be interpreted that marriage should only between different sex couples, then I'll grant that you have some legal basis for you wanting to prevent same sex marriage.
 
I'll then promptly say that my Constitution is discriminatory and should be changed. I don't think I'll have to though.

50.8% of the US population are women….Unless you have some specific murdering going on, you’ll find that most countries have slightly more women than men.

Can I get some sauce on that? I was under the impression that men had a slightly higher chance of conception due to carrying less genes as sperm, and thus being ever-so-slightly lighter and faster. Do you think the data is skewed in women's favor because they tend to live a few years longer?

Source: CIA
(Ctrl+F United States)

The actual ratio is 51.1% female.

@Turtle

Talk to your gay friends and ask them "How gay was your environment growing up"

See what they tell you, then report back to me. Thanks

I've had a pretty normal life, and grew up with pretty normal parents (even if divorced), and a normal family. With that said, I still turned out as I am. There are a few gay people on one side of my family, but I rarely see them. Furthermore, I've been blessed with being surrounded by homophobic people, two of which are my dad and his girlfriend. Not to mention a lot of people I know as friends (or at least acquaintances). Even the people who claim they aren't homophobic say things like "I wouldn't want a friend who was gay" (and that was a good friend of mine saying that). With all that said, if being gay was based on my upbringing, then considering I've been surrounded by people saying it's wrong, I would grow up straight. And while I know teens can be rebellious, I don't think they'd go gay if their parents are homophobic just to be rebellious, as they'd know that it wouldn't turn out well.

I don't know if that sarcasm was intended, but it was completely unnecessary. Turtle is just trying to give his own reasoning for why or how people turn out gay in a world where there is no clear answer. We should give him our respect for that.

It's possible that the environment one is in while growing up could affect one's sexual orientation, just not in the way we may think. Some people theorize that orientation is at least partially decided by hormones during growth and in the early stages of life. I'm no expert on growth and hormone development so correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it is possible that hormone development can change depending on the environment you grow up in. Whether it's from diet, the type of atmosphere you're usually surrounded by, treatment from parents or peers, I don't know but to me this is not a completely far off theory.

We're getting a bit off topic though, this is not a thread about theories on why some people are gay.

So, on the one hand, you have madcat and Random 21, who grew up in homophobic environments. On the other hand, you have me. I grew up in a very tolerant family in one of, if not the most socially liberal cities in the US. And now I live in probably the most liberal city in Canada. I actually don't know that many other gay people; the majority of those that I do live in Australia (sort of a fluke of university). And as anyone whose ever been in IRC ever knows, I managed to snag a boyfriend. So I guess you could call me "successful" in that respect.

The point is that I've grown up in an extremely tolerant environment, where no one really gives a shit if I'm gay or not. It's very antithetical to where madcat and Random 21 grew up. So it goes to show that sexual orientation is really not heavily dependent on environment. As Algernon so succinctly put it, with additions from BSOD and Verbose, there is no scholarly consensus as to what can predict or what causes sexual orientation, and there likely never will be.

>tfw my index fingers are a full 5 mm longer than my ring fingers

50.8% of the US population are women….Unless you have some specific murdering going on, you’ll find that most countries have slightly more women than men.

Can I get some sauce on that? I was under the impression that men had a slightly higher chance of conception due to carrying less genes as sperm, and thus being ever-so-slightly lighter and faster. Do you think the data is skewed in women’s favor because they tend to live a few years longer?

Source: CIA
(Ctrl+F United States)
The actual ratio is 51.1% female.

Ah, that seems to confirm my hypothesis then, at least somewhat. Thanks.

@Crimson

I might have come off sounding more aggressive than I intended. Sorry

I'm not being sarcastic, I actually just would like Turtle to inform me if his gay friends has "gayer" environments, it would explain his position quite well.

Guys, shhhh, do you hear that?

I don't hear it either. Oh well, let's get back on topic.

(So, I'm jumping on this train a little late, but it's nice to see it hasn't derailed)

I think that legalization of gay marriage is the right thing to do, but I also think water is wet, so what do I know?

(clears throat)

Sorry… I, like almost everyone else here apparently, support gay marriage. I live in a very homophobic area, but the people here aren't nearly as against homosexuality as they used to be just 4 or 5 years ago (though maybe it's not just as open). I don't know if Texas will ever actually legalize homosexual marriage, granted, but it's nice to see progress in one's own lifetime, non?

In younger populations, there are more men.
In older populations, there are more women.
So, either men die off faster, as supported by science, or a significant amount of you are about to realize those weren't man boobs…

EDIT: Fixed negative karma again. Look at me. I'm IMPORTANT.

Walls of text

Walls of text everywhere
On topic: I support gay marriage. It really doesn't affect me at all if it is allowed, so I don't see what the huge issue about it is.

Sir-ful Turtle wrote:

No, it’s not genetic… Stop with that, people. There’s no proof.

I’m no scientist, nor do I purport to be in any way, but allow me to structure my point of view in a more…shall I say, robust way.

Firstly, I must point out that you contradict yourself. You pronounce that homosexuality is not due to genes, then you add that “there’s no proof.” The way I see it, we are forced to take a neutral zone in situations where there is an absence of evidence. That statement was quite ill-bred, if I may.

Now then, your statement of denial seems overly self-assured as it is. There is decreasing reason to think otherwise about homosexuality being genetic; brain structure, possibly hormonal influence and concordance in genes among homosexuals all appear to point in one direction. The term sexual orientation is considered to be more politically correct than sexual preference for a reason, you know. Homosexuality is not something to be oversimplified in that manner anyway, so I hesitate to advocate my assertions here (at least not with much confidence, anyway). Your argument, to me, is pretty skewed, and I must ask how much research you’ve done.

I know that it is most likely that we never will have an answer to the question, “What determines a person’s sexual orientation?” You may be on to something there. But you don’t provide a much better argument yourself.

I hope I don’t sound needlessly mean or antagonistic here, and I apologize if I do.

As for the environmental theory you call to light, thank you for explaining yourself further. I’d go as far to say sexual orientation can be recognized as a status symbol, if employed under circumstances of insurgence or divergence from a community. But I don’t really have any credible sources about that, so don’t quote me.

The argument you made, however, was rather arbitrary and capricious. I also have a problem with how you handled describing your views about homosexual sex, to be honest. As was said earlier, there’s no need to make people feel bad unnecessarily. That’s just being needlessly mean. Please rephrase your declarations.

I'm somewhat confused as to what is going on in this thread.

On topic:

I don't support gay marriage, I suppose human marriage. 2 consenting adults should be able to do what they want so long as it doesn't result in property damage, physical damage, or sensible mental damage (getting pissed off because gays is not valid "mental damage").

I support gay marriage. I have my reasons. I like to be vague about my reasons. :3

This is the 21st century.

Of course I support gay marriage.

I'm a modern man.

Lots of gays on this thread/site… hmm

Well… I guess I should start asking the question no one has dared to ask.

Anyone want to get married?

Image related:

@Zillie: I very much intend on getting married and having kids some day. I would rather have it happen before I hit my mid 30s, but it'll happen when it happens.

Me too. I live in Southern Missouri. Soooooo, I may have to wait a while, or magically become financially capable, within a short period of time, in order to move somewhere better.

@Zillie

I don't really know if I do or don't want to. I don't really envision it on my list of long term goals.

Sir-ful Turtle wrote:

Look, you guys. I posted my opinion, and elaborated it. Now I’m going to be the bigger person and leave. You hang out with your little flame war.

Alright, now this post I have a problem with.

Thank you ever so much for elaborating on your opinion; I was going to act more dismissively than is standard for me had you left it at the first post you made in the thread. But now you’re just being unwarranted in your pettiness; not to mention how slanted you’re acting.

Yes, you did elaborate your opinion. But from what I’m reading here, you rejected the opinions of others. I always regard the thoughts of those who disagree with me; in fact, I think I enjoy listening to them more, because I like to congregate viewpoints so that my arguments can be as objective as is capable for somebody of my mindset. Civility is crucial in threads like this. I already pointed out earlier that I’m proud of the community here for not stooping so low as to start a flame war. We offered you our opinions, and I didn’t notice a single user out of line. That’s an erroneous claim.

There is no need to be disconcerted because other users didn’t necessarily fully concur with you. I’ve seen a lot of flame wars in my time. This is not one of them.

If I notice anybody being needlessly mean and destructive towards your opinions in their posts, I’ll try to reason with them.

EDIT: I missed this earlier. Implying that you’re a bigger person than somebody else in a thread like this is not good. Doing that is, considering the issue, almost begging for an antagonistic response. However, I’m not the guy who will present it to you.