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mythology is some pretty messed up stuff

Last posted Dec 12, 2014 at 08:26PM EST. Added Dec 10, 2014 at 07:05PM EST
16 posts from 12 users

My mythology class has been some…eye opening and terrifying experience.
For example. In Norse mythology, Odin's horse was created when Loki turned into a female horse and lured a Frost Giant's horse away, and got impregnated by said horse….If you see any fangirls of his, because of the Marvel stuff, be sure to bring that up.

any other examples of some really messed up mythological stuff you guys remember?

Sleipnir is the offspring in question, in case anyone is curious.

Also, pretty much anything Norse Mythology Loki did was weird. I can't even remember how many children (s?)he has now.

Socks wrote:

Sleipnir is the offspring in question, in case anyone is curious.

Also, pretty much anything Norse Mythology Loki did was weird. I can't even remember how many children (s?)he has now.

Well he also gave birth to a woman with a corpse for a lower half, A giant snake, and a giant wolf.

so…when are we gonna see this stuff in Thor or the avengers?

Basilius wrote:

My mythology class has been some…eye opening and terrifying experience.
For example. In Norse mythology, Odin's horse was created when Loki turned into a female horse and lured a Frost Giant's horse away, and got impregnated by said horse….If you see any fangirls of his, because of the Marvel stuff, be sure to bring that up.

any other examples of some really messed up mythological stuff you guys remember?

I was going to try to apologize for the weird shit in mythology, but it's late and mythology is, in fact, pretty damn weird most of the time. Perhaps the world's first furry, Pasiphae had Daedalus construct an elaborate fursuit for her so she could get a bull to have sex with her.

The ancients were remarkably wise in many ways, but sometimes there's just no explaining why they thought about certain things in such bizarre ways. Of course, some of them were aware of how weird it all was: Lucian of Samosata wrote what we might call the world's first science fiction novel, the so-called True Story, which in part involves a group of travelers having their boat shot up in the moon and an encounter with sexy moon people. The "True Story" is weird enough that you pretty much have to go ahead and say he was poking fun at the more abstract parts of mythology, or at least writing the world's first work of surrealism.

An excerpt:

"Next to them were the Sky-dancers, a sort of light infantry, formidable however, like all the rest, for they slung radishes at long range, and any man that they hit could not hold out a moment, but died, and his wound was malodorous"

Last edited Dec 10, 2014 at 10:27PM EST

I love how crazy Mythology is. Not just Greek or Norse, but other mythologies as well like Japanese and European.

Incubus and Succubus (Incubi and Succubi?) are male and female demons that have intercourse with humans of the opposite sex at night. This explained back then in the dark ages why for some people at nights their genitals hurt and throb and why some babies grow up to be wizards and warlocks. (Persona 3 and 4 are the best games to teach you about Mythology. I guarantee it because they offer so many creatures and stuff with actual descriptions.)


Norse Mythology


>Be Odin
>Have sons Thor, Baldr, Hodur, Loki
>Loki cuts off Thor's wife's (Sif) golden hair and then makes some cool shit
>Dwarf thinks he can do better, creates amazing hammer but made a small handle (Mjolnir)
>Loki has a son that is a giant wolf and a son that is a giant snake
>Go to witches
>They tell you that Baldr (invincible to everything but mistletoe) will die your grandson the giant wolf (Fenrir) will eat you at the end of the world and then Thor will fight his nephew the giant snake but dies.
>OhShit.jpg
>Trick Fenrir into thinking your playing games when you try restrain him
>Get dwarves to make this magical bow to tie up Fenrir
>Fenrir suspicious, asks someone to put their hand in his mouth in case of trick
>Tyr god of justice does it
>Magical bounds work but Fenrir eats Tyr's hand
>Crisis averted
>Everyone is playing our game of "Shoot shit at Baldr cause he can't die"
>Loki tricks blind brother into putting mistletoe on arrow and it kills Baldr
>Fuck a giantess and have son Vali
>Hel (Loki's daughter) lives in Hel where the spirits reside
>She promises if everyone mourns Baldr she'll bring him back
>Everyone does apart from this one old woman (Loki in disguise) who refuse so Baldr stays dead
>Loki lets Fenrir free
>Eats me
>Snake son kills Thor
>Everyone dies
>World ends for a while

Last edited Dec 11, 2014 at 10:48AM EST

Well, one thing to keep in mind is that in the ancient world, myths were interpreted very differently. A modern audience looks at the conception of Sleipnir and doesn't know what to make of it, but to an ancient Norseman, it would have carried deeper symbolic messages that spoke to how his culture viewed the cosmos. To understand myths, we must understand the people who developed them.

I admit, I am not well-versed in matters of Norse mythology; given the course you just took, you are likely more learned in I in this area. However, I do know some things about other mytho-religious systems. Consider the ancient Near East, a region that produced the Bible, the Enuma Elish, the Atra Hasis, the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Story of Sinuhe, and many other pieces of mytho-historical literature. Reading these stories on their own in our modern context, they appear to be little more than stories, or the fantasies of an unscientific age. But to do so would be a terrible mistake, because it would ignore how the people in the ANE saw the world. Indeed, while diverse, there were many common threads in the mindsets of these cultures:

  • They did not differentiate between physical and metaphysical as we do. To them, what we consider the physical world was merely a reflection of a deeper underlying cosmic symbolism, because to them ontology followed function. Indeed, they would consider myths to be more "real" than their own physicality.
  • Mythic narratives were largely allegorical in the sense that they articulated a cosmic pattern. They saw gods in nature itself and the patterns manifest there, and weaved stories that personified those forces to make sense of the patterns they saw. The question of whether or not the forces of nature were actually humanoid beings who fought each other or did things that seem impossible to us would have been mostly irrelevant/missing the point to someone from the ANE.
  • Creation (both mundane and divine) was an act defined by separation of previously-united elements and giving things names in order to define their domains and limits. Conversely, chaos was represented by a lack of division.
  • Histories were not journalistic, inasmuch as the ancients were more concerned with outcomes than they were substantiating evidence or details; those things were effectively window-dressing and prone to change with the telling. (Consider that the next time you see something in the Bible that doesn't seem to make sense :P)
  • Histories were also written primarily as propaganda tools, specifically to legitimate a ruler in the eyes of the gods so he could gain their favor or avoid their ire (in the case of the Israelites, this meant legitimation of the Covenant). And just like modern politicians they spent a lot of time divorcing themselves from the actions of predecessors deemed unfit (Israel was again anachronistic in this regard, as they reserved a LOT of criticism for kings past and present). History was the realm of the divine, and the rise and decline of kingdoms and dynasties were treated as decisions of the divine assembly.

Consider the myth of Noah's flood, itself one of many flood myths in the region (many details borrowed from the Epic of Gilgamesh). The ancient Israelite view of the makeup of the world was in line with the rest of the ANE. Namely the world as they knew it a great stone disk several thousand miles across, bordered above and below by a solid sky and underworld respectively. These elements were surrounded by a great chaotic ocean, which was the source of all water; indeed, rain was believed to be water flowing through cracks in the ceiling that was the sky. Remember how I said that creation involved separation and naming? Most creation myths in the ANE open with a seething chaos that has not been defined as sea, earth, or sky yet; it is all of these and none of them. Order was established by pulling them apart, labeling them, and establishing barriers so that an ordered world can be established. That sea remained, ever ready to swallow the emergent order and return all existence to singular shapeless potential. In this light, flood myths are not actual historical records of global floods but accounts of the gods dropping the barriers that hold chaotic forces at bay, and thus destroy creation.

Not surprisingly, the Noah version of the ANE flood myth meme was structured a bit differently than those of their neighbors. Other traditions usually had a sympathetic god or two sparing a handful of humans and animals while appealing to the divine assembly for mercy. However, the threat of further floods remained, whether due to divine wrath or cosmic catastrophe, and such floods were believed would ultimately end the world. But in the Noah account, Yahweh makes a point of reestablishing the laws of nature thus upset, (fecundity, vegetative growth, etc.) and promises humanity that the aforementioned barriers will never be brought down again.

I'd give you more examples for this region, but I loaned my primary references to a friend recently ^^;

GREEK MYTHOLOGY WAS NOTHING SHORT OF FUCKING HIDEOUS.

URANUS PUT MONSTERS BORN FROM GAIA, MOTHER OF EARTH OR SOME SHIT, DEEP INSIDE HER FUCKING BODY, CAUSING HER ETERNAL PAIN. CHRONUS THEN CASTRATED AND KILLED URANUS.

AND LETS FOR-FUCKING-GET THAT ATHENA WAS MAD BECAUSE ONE OF HER PRIESTESS' WAS GOT RAPED BY POSEIDON, AND SHE WASNT ABLE TO HOLD HIM OFF, SO SHE TURNED HER INTO A FUCKING HALF SNAKE LADY WHO FREEZES PEOPLE INTO STONE

AND ALSO ANTAEUS, SON OF POSIDEON OR SOME SHIT, HUNG OUT BY A ROAD AND KILLED ANYONE WHO WAS FOOLISH ENOUGH TO BE AGREE TO A WRESTLING FIGHT WITH HIM

In short, Greek mythology is terrible.

The Aztec god of war and the sun, Huitzilopochtli was said to have slain all his siblings after being born, and requires blood sacrifice for sustenance so he can defeat the night deity and cause the sun to rise.

Papa Coolface wrote:

The Aztec god of war and the sun, Huitzilopochtli was said to have slain all his siblings after being born, and requires blood sacrifice for sustenance so he can defeat the night deity and cause the sun to rise.

The story's a bit more complicated than that. Huitzilopochtli's mother, the elderly priestess/mother goddess Coatlique (Lady of the Serpent Skirt), was sweeping the shrine at Coatepec (Serpent Hill) one day when a ball of white eagle down fell from the sky. Placing the ball between her breasts, Coatlicue became pregnant (and yes, the white feathers are alluding to semen). However, her existing children, the Centzon Huitznahua (Four Hundred Southerners, the gods of the southerns stars), were horrified by the scandal of their widowed mother apparently sleeping with a man and having a child out of wedlock. Led by Coatlicue's eldest daughter, the warrior moon goddess Coyoxuahqui (Lady of the Belled Cheeks), the Centzon Huitznahua hunted their mother to the peak of Coatepec. Depending on which version you hear, Coatlique either gave birth atop to Huitzilopochtli (Hummingbird to the South) atop Coatepec, or he sprang from her body after Coyolxauhqui struck off their mother's head. Either way, Huitzilopochtli emerged fully grown in the regalia of a warrior, and armed with a fire serpent he blasted Coyolxauhqui from the peak. As she rolled down Coatepec, her body broke apart, and when Huitzilopochtli descended the mountain he threw her severed head into the sky where it became the moon. Horrified, the other Centzon Huitznahua fled, and Huitzilopochtli began his great hunt. He has been hunting his fratricidal kin ever since, and he will annihilate them when he finds them.

Now, this seems all kinds of fucked up on its own. But there is more. Like most of Mesoamerica, myth and ritual were intimately tied to human reenactment; as above, so below. Even human sacrifices were typically given days or weeks of training in song and dance choreography prior to the main event. Indeed, sacrificial victims were often ritual impersonators of gods who had sacrificed themselves to make or maintain the world.

The myth of Huitzilopochtli's birth was foundational to the workings of Aztec state and foreign policy. Huitzilopochtli was the Aztec's patron god. It is understandable under the circumstances that such a martial culture would have a war god as their patron. In a way, each Aztec warrior was himself a ritual impersonator of Huitzilopochtli. But that begs the question, who were the Centzon Huitznahua? Why, the other tribes and city states of Mesoamerica! The myth effectively ordered the Aztecs to conquer the world in Huitzilopochtli's name in reenactment of his glorious birth. And the ritual reenactment does not stop there. Consider the Templo Mayor, a great double with two great staircases leading up to two separate shrines to Huitzilopochtli and the rain god Tlaloc at the top:

This was the center of the Aztec universe, the beating heart of the empire to which all tribute and captives flowed. Like most Mesoamerican pyramids, it was a votive mountain, and the serpentine structural decorations and presence of a coatepantli (serpent wall) around it designated it as a replica of Coatepec. In keeping with his name, Huitzilopochtli's temple was situated on the southern end of the main platform. And what was situated at the base of the southern stairway? This:

This is the Coyolxauhqui stone, a great stone disk set into the pavement. It show's Coyolxauhqui following her tumble down Coatepec, broken. Captives sacrificed to Huitzilopochtli were made to climb the steps to his temple, where they had their hearts extracted. These "eagle men," often still barely alive, were then hurled down the steps of the temple in imitation of Coyolxauhqui's fall. As if to drive this point home, they would usually come to rest on the Coyolxauhqui stone itself.

Sometimes I wonder if Ancient mythology really was taken seriously by the ancient civilizations, or they're just some crazy figments of imagination that the ancients wanted to make sculptures of as awesome fan art. Take this Roman God for example:

Mutunus Tutunus

He is the roman God of Phalli (big long sticks aka. Penises.) His name is a play on two slang words for Penis back in ancient rome. So essentially, his name is something like Dick Weiner.

Pictures of ancient good luck charms from ancient rome that are shaped as flying penises. Linked that so this forum post doesn't become nsfw.

Source for MT's etymology.

Onion Syrup wrote:

Sometimes I wonder if Ancient mythology really was taken seriously by the ancient civilizations, or they're just some crazy figments of imagination that the ancients wanted to make sculptures of as awesome fan art. Take this Roman God for example:

Mutunus Tutunus

He is the roman God of Phalli (big long sticks aka. Penises.) His name is a play on two slang words for Penis back in ancient rome. So essentially, his name is something like Dick Weiner.

Pictures of ancient good luck charms from ancient rome that are shaped as flying penises. Linked that so this forum post doesn't become nsfw.

Source for MT's etymology.

Apotropaic charms and tintinabula like those were fare less humorous to the ancients than we might find them. Their primary function was to bring good luck, fertility, and ward against evil spirits.

That said, the ancients were definitely not without a sense of humor, as satire often appears in mythology. One of my favorite examples can be found in the K'iche Maya book of creation, the Popol Vuh. During the Second Age, the Hero Twins, Hunahpu and Xbalanque, were charged with slaying a family of monsters. One of those was Zipacna, a volcanic giant with crocodilian attributes who raised mountains for his own amusement. After Zipacna foiled an assassination attempt on him by the 400 Boys (star gods, also likely associated with alcohol) and threw them into the sky, the Twins went down a canyon at the base of a mountain (most likely Mt. Miagua in Guatemala), finding a cave hidden behind a waterfall. After undermining the mountain, they constructed a great crab out of stone and bromeliads. The trap set, they sought out the giant.

Now, after his tussle with the 400 Boys, Zipacna was very hungry. When he encountered the boys on the road, they asked him what he was doing. He remarked that he was looking for his favorite food, which was crabs. Hunahpu and Xbalanque said they had seen a great crab in a cave, but that she was exceedingly fierce. Zipacna bid them lead the way.

When they arrived at the cave, the Twins recommended that in order to approach the crab, Zipacna would have to crawl into the cave on his back. Ignoring them, Zipacna entered the cave on his belly. The crab was as troublesome a quarry as the boys warned, however, loudly clattering about as it scrambled out of Zipacnas reach. When the direct approach failed, Zipacna decided to heed the boys advice and crawled into the cave on his back. He crawled so deep that only his legs below the knees were sticking out of the mountain. Then the mountain settled upon his chest so that he could not turn over again, and he turned to stone.

Now you may be wondering, where the satire is in this? Well, the K'iche word for crab, top, is homophonous with the K'iche word for vulva. And Zipacna entered the cave _up to his knees._

Skeletor-sm

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