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Popper my good man, I respect your right to an opinion, but I must say I am nothing short of astonished that you would say such a thing about such a fine, fun-filled and charming masterpiece as the most recent episode. I actually have a very high view of it, despite having earlier apprehensions that it might make a big mess of things.

I have a hard time understanding how anyone could look at every hit-or-miss story we've had, and choose this one to say the show has officially become less than it was. Friend, it just isn't so. I'll say more once my full review is done.

@Dan

I want to make it clear that despite jumping the shark, this doesn't mean doomsday…yet.

There are plenty of shows I still watch that have jumped the shark,

And example would be Star Wars: The Clone Wars

This show made up completely for the pain of the Clone Wars movie. And yet, it made several mistakes as it went along. A lot of them with Ahsoka and the wussiness of the Jedi and changing existing canon, but mostly about the return of this fellow:

After he was revealed to be still alive and when he came back, the show became estranged.

However, Sam Witwer (voice of Starkiller to you Force Unleashed fans) really pulls it off, and the prospect of seeing Darth Sidious freaking duel wielding sabers against Maul and his (out of nowhere) brother Savage keeps me wanting to watch it

Hmm… This seems to be one of the few episodes that has a near uniform opinion from its fans. While all the others are Polarizing.

Just about everyone holds the opinion that the episode was held back a bit by the enforced length of the episode. And on the side, a few people mentioned that Discord probably isn't going to be completely good; which for some reason I'm getting the feeling he'll end up as a Trickster Mentor.

Of course, most of our opinions are abridged, so maybe a less uniform opinion will pop up when Dan does his Review.

…I feel a little uneasy about not having enough dissenting opinions here. So far, I've only seen one overt one.

Why am I uneasy? Well, it may be in part due to some instinct telling me that half of the impact of an episode is from hearing the reactions of other fans… And so far, what I've read comes across as a bit of a thoughtful "Hmm", rather than fierce debate or excited approval.

Of course, these words mean practically nothing; people may be preoccupied with wondering what this means for future episodes. Though so far, my bet is on the last one this season.

True, I would be a little disappointed if Discord didn't come back as some sort of quasi-villain figure in a future episode. Of all the bad guys in the show, he is by far my favourite. However, if he does go back to being a full-fledged villain again, that would sort of cancel out any developments from this newest episode. It will be interesting to see what they do with him from here on.

Now that I think about it, I don't really see this episode as a stand-alone story like many of the others. The re-introduction of Discord must lead to something at some point, and I think that's maybe the reason everyone seems so "hmm" about it. I mean, it had everything we've come to expect from the show quality-wise, but it really seemed like a "build-up" episode to me. It's like… the end of a chapter, but not the end of the book.

Still thought it was awesome though.

Interesting note here though, they have now brought two former villains back in season 3 and "redeemed" them somehow. So… maybe Gilda is next?

@Let's Go and Meet the Bronies: Oh God! I love every second of it!
And the best part (aside from the rhymes) was those were actually John de Lancie and Tara Strong, not someone trying to make their voices.
And the clopping.

Ho ho… AND something else:

What does it means? We'll have to wait the season finale. Or season 4.

I have established the Brony Doomsday Clock

Current Time: Six Minutes Until Midnight

@Bruno

What I think though is that there might be a new evil on the horizon and she'll need to get every single help possible, even ones that are iffy. She believes Discord is one of many that may be needed to fight off the new evil. It's kind of like Celestia is Commander Shepard and the new evil are the Reapers (which throughout Mass Effect, are coming to take out Earth, and Shepard realizes that he'll need to grab all the help needed).

Celestia still does not entirely trust Discord, but she knows something is brewing and will need her help.

@Popper
Whoa there, Poppy.
Let's slow this apocalypse train down for a moment and define some terms.
What exactly are you implying with the phrase 'jumping the shark?'
(I know it's an oft-used phrase, I'm just looking for the specific context in this case.)
Are you trying to say that the return of Discord shows that the creators are running out of ideas?
If so, I really don't follow and your example from Star Wars does not fit.

I've never watched Clone Wars, but bringing back Darth Maul (who was clearly cut in half in the movie) sounds like a massive break in continuity that I can completely understand being a sign of desperate writing.
I don't know what the in-show justification for his survival was, but it's obvious that it was some kind of ass-pull in order to revive a well-known and marketable character.
I can't really think of any other reason for it happening.

Discord is not this.
In fact, Discord's arc is functioning pretty much exactly as we could have predicted given his origins.
Everyone knows Discord is based on Q from Star Trek: same actor, same demeanor, same iffy morality.
Well, how did Q work?
He was first introduced as a villain, then, over the course of multiple appearances, he morphed into more of an antihero.
Still mischievous, but usually working toward some kind of positive end.
Since Faust all-but-explicitly established Discord as the pony version of Q, I think it makes perfect sense that he follows a similar progression.
His 'most of the time' aside at the end of the episode clearly implies that he is not going to be some goody-twoshoes or anything.
He will still be the lord of chaos, just marginally less 'evil.'
As has been said millions of times now, the show ran out of time to explore the full motives and ramification of Discord's return so we will have to wait and see, but I see no indication that having him turn good (sort of) shows any kind of desperation on the parts of the writers.

In short, your clock is all wrong.

There's only one thing that makes me worry about the show, the guy who wrote the premise for this episode….a 15 year old brony (IF the post that one guy whom I forgot the name to is real) and the fact that there's the rumor of Mandopony (whom I STILL haven't listened to a single one of his songs yet….especially after his little 'war' with 4Chan, seriously who goes to war with 4chan? People take them seriously when they aren't taking websites down with their pure hacking powers?!) contributing to a piece of background music in the season 3 finale. I'm just worried that soon we'll be reading premises for Season 4 episodes that read "The Great and Powerful Trixie returns to Ponyville after being summoned by Princess Celestia to be the 7th Element of Harmony. Written by Sethistro".

IMO I love this fandom but I think it needs to stay away from the actual production because well…….Yeah.

Yeah, Celestia does look a bit worried there, as does the Mane 6 (sans Fluttershy), but not to surprising really giving what Discord is capable of, and what he did in the S2 opener.

@kewln00b: I'm not entirely sure where that rumor started, but from what I read on EqD, they were working on this Discord episode shortly after they wrote the Season 2 opener.

So the last episode is based upon a fanfic from a 15 year old brony that managed to circumvent the no fanfic rule by having some good relations, well colour me surprised. Perhaps all he contributed was the idea of Fluttershy and Discord sharing a flat, but we will never know for sure.

Coming to the actual episode:
This Fluttershy episode was different, because it didn't focus on her shyness, assertiveness or timidness, like most of her previous episodes. This episode wasn't about her character flaws, but rather about her positive character traits. Foremost her kindness is challenged by Discord and she shows a lot of willpower by staying reasonably and calm.
The relationship between Discord and Fluttershy from Return of Harmony – click here to recall the part was renewed and developed further in this episode. Fluttershy was immune to Discord's manipulation and managed to beat him with kindness before. It's also quite interesting that RD is the loudest voice when it comes to ban Discord again. She was the one that betrayed her friends in the maze and couldn't resist Discord long. It is quite possible, that she fears him the most from all the mane 6.

I wouldn't say that this episode was flawless. The pacing was a bit bumpy and the ending quite sudden, but it was really entertaining and didn't have one of those generic cartoon plots. The humour wasn't as character driven as usual and consisted more of visual gags with a lot of blink once and miss a gag scenes. The beaver subplot in the background was also quite clever and served as a frame for the whole episode.
So it was an enjoyable episode in the end, but I am actually not so sure about the rewatch potential…

@Doomsday Clock of Mine

The Clock is somewhat serious, but is also at the same time a bit of a novelty. It shows a point where the fandom is near a breaking point and if the show is about to make a very critical error. However, it is to be taken as you will.

as a side note, the characters have no relation to the time. They are just there to illustrate. If they were, Discord and NmM would trade spots on the clock, for example.

@DeadParrot

Though a very well thought out theory, we must keep in mind the very nature of MLP.

In short, Q is Star Trek, though an excellent character, is from Star Trek. We can't really compare what they did (and were able to do) in that series to MLP. In short, because MLP is what it is, Discord probably won't have the dynamic change Q did, and can easily end up being somewhat disappointing. Yet, at the same time, the opposite may happen and MLP may push its hardest with this new episode

Discord can either be really good with his new allegiance or really bad

As for the rest of the Doomsday Clock, it also takes into affect the Alicorn Twilight rumours. The clock will tick forward or back as more information on the time is revealed

The clock has now changed. Though it went -1 with the rumor that Skyla is the new Princess, unsettling (though brief) research has caused the clock to go to Four Minutes Till Midnight

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/483/698/afd.png

@PopperFett: Well, as I pointed out to someone over Steam, Q's character was also worked out over the course of those TNG episodes, and it kinda also spilled over into DS9 and Voyager as well.

@Popper:

Alright, bro, I think you're overreacting. This episode has been in the works for a while, and the show has far from jumped the shark. Jumping the shark is, literally, having absolutely no ideas whatsoever, so you pull something out of thin air that makes no sense. This wasn't pulled out of thin air, because it breaks no previous continuity. Not only that, but it makes sense, because Discord was never established as evil, just anarchistic, at worst. He's evil in the sense a mischievous teenager writing graffiti and breaking mailboxes is evil, though perhaps on a grander scale. The only people he really hurt were the Mane Six, and that was mostly just turning them on each other to secure his freedom.

I found it fairly believable for him to agree not to cause too much havoc in return for his freedom. Hell, I'd thought since Season 2 began that it'd be smart just to give Discord a stretch of land and a bunch of people willing to put up with his bullshit (Pinkie Pie). He didn't get fully redeemed, he just agreed not to cause total anarchy.

That said, I think you're also overreacting on stuff in the future. Namely stuff we have no fucking info on.

Though I do agree the episode could have been done better, with smoother pacing, I think given the fact that the ponies don't totally trust Discord (check the thing Bruno posted), and Discord didn't seem totally sincere, it's believable. Discord seems the kind of character that hungers for attention, and Fluttershy stopped giving it to him. He simply couldn't abide that, so he finally gave in. Still a bit too quick, but I'm not totally opposed to it. Certainly don't think it's jumping the shark.

As for your Star Wars episode, I hardly think it's comparable. Darth Maul was confirmed door as a deadnail in the pure canon movies, pretty much. They turned around and brought him back to life (for the second time, I'll add. The old not-CGI-ish TV show had him brought back to life to hunt down Obi-wan on one episode). It was sorta planned for Discord to return all along, from what I've seen, and it was handled better, in my opinion.

What I'm trying to say, is stop panicking and giving a fuck and roll with it.

Moving on…

Anybody else find Discord's lion paw fucking adorable for some reason?

I don't know why…

PopperFett Wrote:

The clock has now changed. Though it went -1 with the rumor that Skyla is the new Princess.

@Doomsday

Okay, to get one thing straight: I'm not upset entirely at Discord's new 'redemption', I am upset at how (in my opinion) how unimpressive and forced it felt.

So Discord had an impact on the clock, but not an entirely major one

What did however, affect the clock is the prospect of Twi becoming an alicorn. Even without the two epiosdes (Princess Coronation and Season Finale) being one in the same, the fear was in fact that Twi was going to be an alicorn period, or even a princess. Lasers's words do little to comfort. In fact, it adds some more anxiety considering we have to worry about the new ep.

(and if you haven't noticed, clock news is posted in bold)

Despite the response, the clock will remain at Four Minutes Till Midnight until further evidence is presented

The clock is stupid and makes no sense. There, said it.

For starters, you're implying there will be a point in the near future in which the brony fandom will truly nuke itself. We had plenty of these things in the past that bronies saw as the incoming apocalypse, never it turned out to be one. The ones that did turn out in shitstorms were episodes of which you wouldn't expect it in the first place (Mare Do-Well).

I also have to point you out to a discussion of a few pages ago, about bronies leaving the fandom waah waah D"X due to such events. Remember the conclusion we drew from that? They never leave. It's big words and no action most of the time.

Lastly, you're placing distrust in the creators. Candence would be the apocalypse last season, the worst shit episode shitstorm nuke (or something) this fandom had ever seen. Turned out to be a great 2-parter and people loved the character. Let's view this episode first before we call it the incoming apocalypse.

If Twilight becomes an Alicorn (read again: IF), there is no conclusion yet it will be permanent. And in my personal opinion, I am glad we might see more of Discord in the future. It was always such a shame the evil characters would only appear once, now we have one everyone loved that also has the chance to return.

Ponei.

@RandomMan

As said, the clock is really a novelty.

I just want to keep up with it as a possible prediction for future events

I honestly don't think that anyone paid any attention to it

But in all honesty, the possibilities that have been presented are not too comforting, or too likable by many. You cannot deny that the change of Twilight (even temporary) will more than likely not be universally well met.

In short, the clock ticks to a possible, yet somewhat unlikely, demise. Rather, it ticks to a point where the fandom may be doomed, even if not imploding immediately.

@PopperFett
As far as the schedule for season three is alluding to, Twilight will not turn into an alicorn, nor is there going to be a Princess Skyla.

(Go home Doom Paul, you’re drunk.)
As RandomMan pointed out, we already had a doomsday scenario before, some prophesied nauseating wedding which would rattle this fandom down to its core. In reality it took a majority of us by surprise by its quality and created your waifu.

I am fairly capable of their decisions for the show, I do question their focus on spike though because he is an assistant but that is a different issue all together.

I didn't really put much thought into the idea that Discord was just lying to the ponies at the end because I'm not sure they'd really do that – making a whole episode about giving people a second chance and then having the character in question make the ponies regret giving him a second chance next time he appears seems counter-productive.

Either way though, as much as I prefer Discord playing the villain I have to admit – the spirit of disharmony going with "keeping an adorable pony friend" over "getting to fuck up reality" is pretty funny and hella cute.

@popperfett

The worst that will happen is a couple more people than usual will claim they're going to stop watching the show after the week it airs. (You know. If that even happens).

Well… Considering that the Season 3 stuff has been picked out; as mentioned by Tim… Who wants to bet that all the crazy merchandise leaks and other crazy rumours and stuff was for Season 4?

Of course, at this point, nobody cares about crazy stuff being "Maybe" part of season four cause we've still got Two or three more episodes to get through and a Pony Drought not far off from that… And some of us possibly have to survive the recommencement of College.

So… Umm… I'm not sure where I'm going with this. Help?

@the whole thing

Yes, it's not definite

But still

The idea itself of the Twilicorn is…terrible, to say the least. And it probably won't be met very well.

As for the rest of the stuff, and to put an end to the worry about the clock, the clock is just a prediction of a 'doomsday'. I.E., the point where the show probably will make an extremely stupid decision, causing a good sized repercussion. The clock will continue to be updated as time goes by.

I also don't expect the Coronation or the Season closer to be spectacular, even if it isn't our worst fears, considering this season's track record of episode quality.

The problem really is that despite how good you make it, the idea itself is not that amazing. It's too..direct. In the Wedding's case, the story was about a general event, in which anything can happen. However, the Twilicorn is an absolute if it happens. No real way to sugar that idea up…

tl;dr In short, the Twilicorn is a shitty idea (in my opinion, shared by others), so if it is true, it will not sit well with a good portion of the fandom, and will have noticeable backfirings as a result. As such the clock will remain ticking.

And Tim, nothing replaces Chrysalis. I admit, best idea ever.
--

@Zero

Well, a big question is in fact the drought: can the next few episodes help us survive it?

To do so, at least the finale has to be nothing short of spectacular.

With Larson writing, it may be okay. Still, one has to question if we can truly be presentable after another drought.

Popperfett wrote:

The idea itself of the Twilicorn is…terrible, to say the least. And it probably won’t be met very well.

You aren't looking at the possibilities. Now Twilight can finally get Wingboners! Shy yet sassy ships between Twilight and Trixie will become so much more realistic. Finally she can go to Rainbow's place for a change of scenery. No more hiding her feelings for Rarity, with those wings she cannot lie about her intentions. Celestia and Twilight will finally be able to make love on a whole different scale.

The feels man. THE FEELS! These ships never faced the danger of sinking, they were just reloading!

@RandomMan

This is your fandom:

This is your fandom on Twilicorn:

Any questions?

Seriously though, stop worrying. It's not going to happen, and even if Twilight did become an Alicorn, there's a chance the show would handle it well and that it would be entertaining.

Also, am I the only one who was slightly disappointed when Discord didn't turn into a pony? There's some part of me that actually really wanted that to happen.

RandomMan wrote:

Celestia and Twilight will finally be able to make love on a whole different scale.

I know of at least one story where the lovemaking led into Alicorn Twilight (and Alicorn Shining in a separate story). That was an odd read.

@Pony Doomsday Clock
I find the actual doomsday clock rather silly. If you consider that it's a 12-hour instead of a 24-hour, you have to destroy the human race at least twice a day. The board that runs it also tends to jump to conclusions and forget the one thing that makes us humans so adaptable: We tend to like living.

As for Popper's pony version, I think he forgets that we do enjoy our ponies for a reason. So long as the same writers are on board, I don't think a winged Twi is going to upset that many people – the stories will still be thought up by the same people.

@BronyDoc
This was being filmed when I was first starting to get interested in MLP. Sadly, instead of piquing my interest, it's not really there for me. I may watch it someday for Lancie alone, but it doesn't really excite me.

@Episode Drought
If the next season is 26 episodes and they release the teasers at the same rate they did for this one, I think we'll be okay. Many fans can hold over with the fandom produced material, and those people that watch the show but don't toss themselves into the fandom stuff probably won't feel the withdraw at the same level as everyone else.

Damn…so far, I haven't seen a jimmy-rustling Fluttershy x Discord picture yet…

Guys, real talk…

This might sound fucking stupid, but what does Celestia need Discord for? What good could come from the spirit of chaos? What can Discord do that nopony else can? And don't tell me that he's going to use his powers to make Twilight an alicorn. That's dumb. Can someone please give me a serious answer?

My best guess is that Discord knows something that Celestia (or Twilight) needs to know. Most likely a few skills that Twilight will need to know to do… Something.

As to what that something is, that could be either something really profound… Or the safety of the kingdom Depends on it.

…Of course, considering what you want to hear, it will probably just be some villain of the week.

Really, it's either that or Mentor Twilight.

As for Discord making Twilight an Alicorn; him doing it himself, yes, kinda pointless… Him teaching her to do it herself so she earns her right as Heir to Celestia on the other hand? I have no idea!

THIS THINGY RIGHT HERE:

MAYBE DISCORD CAN POSSIBLY PROBABLY APPROXIMATELY EXCEPTIONALLY TEACH TWILIGHT SOMETHING WITH THAT THINGY RIGHT THERE THAT CELESTIA OR LUNA IS GRIPPING IN THEIR MAGICAL MYSTICAL WITCHCRAFTLY NONSCIENTIFIC MAGIC HOLDING FORCEFIELD GLOWY THING THAT CAN ENABLE STARSWIRLED THE BEARDED TEACH TWILIGHT ABOUT SOMETHING I LIKE TO CALL: MENTORICISMINOLOGY?

disturbedbrony wrote:

Guys, real talk…
This might sound fucking stupid, but what does Celestia need Discord for? What good could come from the spirit of chaos? What can Discord do that nopony else can? And don’t tell me that he’s going to use his powers to make Twilight an alicorn. That’s dumb. Can someone please give me a serious answer?

Headcanon ahead, my apologies.

I get the feeling that the Elements of Harmony only work on things that cause damage to the very nature of the world.

1. Nightmare Moon's Eternal Night? Not allowed unless you're tidally locked facing away from a star.
   
2. Discord's Reality Warping? Reality warping.
   
3. Chrysalis's Feeding on Love? I'm guessing it works in a corruptive manner.
   
4. Sombra's War/Suppression/Return? Uhm…

The Elements weren't even offered to the Mane Six to use against Sombra. Perhaps wars, though horrible, are still part of the natural balance of the world. Considering the existence of somewhat violent hydras and dragons, I don't think violence is particularly disharmonious in their land.

Discord, however, has a will of his own. He can fully control his powers, and can use them in whatever ways he wishes. While I don't think a full-on war is going to happen on MLP (too adult), Discord can be a preventative asset to Equestria. He's the counterbalance to the Elements' existence, and can do many things they cannot.

Lone K. the French Rampant wrote:

MAYBE DISCORD CAN POSSIBLY PROBABLY APPROXIMATELY EXCEPTIONALLY TEACH TWILIGHT SOMETHING WITH THAT THINGY RIGHT THERE THAT CELESTIA OR LUNA IS GRIPPING IN THEIR MAGICAL MYSTICAL WITCHCRAFTLY NONSCIENTIFIC MAGIC HOLDING FORCEFIELD GLOWY THING THAT CAN ENABLE STARSWIRLED THE BEARDED TEACH TWILIGHT ABOUT SOMETHING I LIKE TO CALL: MENTORICISMINOLOGY?

I've read every damn book of The Wheel of Time series, which is absolutely full of flowery over-done detail. I don't think it comes close in comparison to the number of adjectives you have here.

You're playing a game that you're not allowed to lose. You're going to lose. What do you do?

You break the rules.

The real question is how terminally fucked must Equestria be if Celestia feels she has to rely on fucking Discord to save it?

@Twilight alicorn

Can we please stop calling her Twilicorn? That portmantu makes no sense as Twilight is already a "corn". I propose we call her "Pegalight"

@Discord discussion:
So anyway, I watched the episode again last night, and I noticed (or rather, re-noticed) something that completely slipped my mind yesterday. This was actually brought up shortly after my previous post, but Celestia's actions at the end really indicate that something more is going on behind the scenes. The fact that the Elements are being left with Twilight is actually a really big deal, since they represent sort of a fail-safe in case something goes wrong. Well, if season 4 has a two-part episode, I'm sure this will all come together then. Something on the scale I hope it will be just can't fit into 20 minutes.

@Twilicorn:
I still just see all that as the result of a merchandising dept. that doesn't know what they're doing. Still, it happens suspiciously often, and it's obvious that Celestia has some sort of plans for her. But giving her wings??? Hm… I'll just stick by my original theory and say that if it does happen, something will somehow go horribly wrong and it will last only one episode. I'm sure it would be a good episode though.

Oh, and apparently today is the one year anniversary of Derpy's first words.

Ah, the memories… For better or for worse, that was a monumental day for all things pony. Happy word-iversary, Derpy!

IF THIS SHOW IS GOING TO JUMP THE SHARK, IT'S GONNA DO IT TO THE MAX!!!!!
SHIPPING FOR NO REASON?
GO FOR IT!

LITERAL SHARK JUMPING!
BUT EXPLODING NINJA SHARKS!

TWILIGHT BECOMES AN ALICORN?
SCREW THAT!
EVERYPONY BECOMES AN ALICORN!

"My wrath shall be swift and without mercy."
Quiet you.

ahem
MLP EXTREME!

2 hours ago I wanted to draw Discord as Gooby and ended up with this.

@what good can discord do for Equestria

>ponies face starvation when apple famine strikes
>only a few apples can be harvested
>everypony knows this is a job for discord but Applejack won't have it
>Applejack spirals into apple sobriety and becomes desperate
>asks discord for help
>discord uses his powers to make apples huge
>ponyville is saved – Discord receives Noble Pone Prize
>Applejack learns that discord can be a pretty cool guy

>worst episode ever
>Iamslow forcibly removed form writing staff and beaten with a sack full of blind bag toys

RARITY WAS AN ALICORN IN SEASON ONE!

I see the Twilicorn thing going over in much the same way.

@ Alicorn Twilight
I don't really like the idea a priori, but I trust the writers and I am sure that they could pull it off. Right now everything is based upon speculations, but some people just love the idea of the apocalypse and the end of the world (or the fandom). Take a look at this idea channel episode
"We are always looking for clues to find apocalyptic end signs – and we are going to find them"

That whole recurring discussion is just so fruitless and tiresome.

@Last episode
I have got a question for you guys:
Do you think that Fluttershy has planned Discord's reformation completely?

This scene here makes me wonder…

Some users have gotten a bit rude towards Popper. A lot of inflammatory language. "Your clock is stupid." "Stop giving a fuck." Telling users what they should do or feel.

We don't have to be saints. Everyone can be poked a bit. And we should discuss and debate here. If you don't agree with an opinion, then rebut. But it feels like Popper's got railed on for having an opinion we don't agree with.
 
The writers aren't perfect. Not every premise and plot can be written well. I see bringing Discord back (with the information we currently have) as being more fan service than being useful to Celestia. Was it really necessary to have Discord come back in the first place? Why not shape the events to not have to include Discord? Why couldn't Celestia and Luna get involved in the conflict? Wouldn't it be cool to see how Celestia interacted with Applejack or Spike for more than a few lines? I would have liked to see Rarity talk to Luna while trekking to wherever.

Monarchs are generally asleep for 8 hours or so. Luna and/or Celestia could continue to rule with their advisors while another Princess went and helped deal with the conflict we're assuming Discord was revived for. That makes more sense than bringing back Discord.

Maybe we'll see how Discord's unique abilities of…chaos…can help save the day. But I don't see it. Cadance had a few episodes (technically four, actually two) but she doesn't affect the show for the most part. As things stand, FiM still stands with or without the Cadance or Shining Armor arcs. Discord is a part of FiM lore, however, as I see it.

• Or more simply, take Cadance out, and I don't really miss her. Same for Shining Armor. Chysalis. Sombrero. I'd only miss Love is in Bloom.
• Take Discord out, and the series isn't quite the same.

We're going to watch the episodes, because we know the writers have previously made good episodes. We'll give them the benefit of the doubt, because they've turned really odd characters and ideas into good episodes.

I don't think it's stupid to question how the writers will turn the premise of a potential (I don't fully trust the Twitter account post, even if it was when Tara Strong was running that Twitter) Pegalight into not only a good episode, but how they can make the same dynamics we've come to like work.

The writing is only part of FiM. We like it for the setting as well. Putting the main character of the show in Canterlot/making her a princess, the closest thing to a god in this universe and giving her an entirely different set of responsibilities/making Discord, god of chaos, a potentially recurring character/things we've yet to see drastically changes the setting we've come to like.

The writers work on other shows, including Littlest Pet Shop, and Lauren Faust's style and hand has been in other shows. However, we don't love those shows like we do MLP. So it seems like the "trust" in the writers here is based on some evidence, and it's good evidence. But not everything they touch (directly or indirectly) is assured to turn into gold.

So…

But it's up for discussion, not for ridicule.

"Hmm, I haven't checked Pony General in a couple days. I should get myself caught up on tha--OH LORDY LOOK AT ALL THOSE WORDS"

@Discord and Alicorn!Twilight discussions: Disregard speculation, patiently wait for canon happenings.

Sorry I've been gone, guys! But I'm alive.

@Discord Discussion – I dunno about you guys, but I like the idea of Discord turning over a new leaf. It worked for Zuko in Avatar: The Last Airbender, so why not Discord? It would be cool if he fought a villan with the Mane Six one of these days,

@Alicorn!Twilight -

It's not happening.

I call Guitar Hero: MLP discussion!

I'd like to thank Verbose for his points. Those were really well thought out I must say, and I applaud him for that

Anyway, I'd like to add some more to my piece:

The Twilcorn or the Pegalight, whatever you want to call it, is controversial. I think we can all agree on that. Otherwise, we wouldn't be talking about it with such fury.

Now we know the Hub denied the idea of the Twilight-alicorn, but the way things are looking, they could have been telling us something equivalent of one of the most recent things Faust cleared up on about Equestria.

In any case, the main issue is not so much how we in this forum are going about with this, or how many of the fandom will feel. It's the idea itself, which inherently isn't great, or amazing.

As Verbs pointed out, the writers, though have had their moments, are not perfect. In my opinion, actually, this season has had a horrible track record for 'good' episodes. Most of them for me have either been disappointing or not as great as they could have been. And that's just in general.

You see, the fandom is in fact weaker than it was a year ago. And right now, people wonder about this whole controversy of Twilight becoming an alicorn.

The idea to me is a story-suicide, meaning that such an event in the plot will shake the show and more than likely rock the fandom. Badly. The decision will not be universally accepted, and we will see a change. And from the way it looks…a change for the worse. Not immediately, but gradually, and eventually.

You see, my clock doesn't tick for the immediate downfall of bronydom. I ticks not for the point where all of us just give up. It doesn't tick for the point of the show's immediate end.

It ticks to the point of no return. The point where the show will show barreness. The point where the brony fandom will no longer enjoy growth, but will only know decline, and a destitute future.

That is my piece.

and yet..some hope may come that all our fears are for naught…and that the episode may be good enough to last us a drought.

but I say to you…that decision is suicide…and nothing can stop its results…

Verbose wrote:

We don’t have to be saints. Everyone can be poked a bit. And we should discuss and debate here. If you don’t agree with an opinion, then rebut. But it feels like Popper’s got railed on for having an opinion we don’t agree with.

Plenty of us did Verbose, don't ignore those posts now. I find it insulting that you point me out while in the exact same post as that quote I made a rebuttal.

The writers aren’t perfect. Not every premise and plot can be written well. I see bringing Discord back (with the information we currently have) as being more fan service than being useful to Celestia. Was it really necessary to have Discord come back in the first place? Why not shape the events to not have to include Discord? Why couldn’t Celestia and Luna get involved in the conflict? Wouldn’t it be cool to see how Celestia interacted with Applejack or Spike for more than a few lines? I would have liked to see Rarity talk to Luna while trekking to wherever.

No, it was not necessary, but it certainly is handy to have him around. We know from Season 2 what Discord is capable off. His powers hold a lot of great ideas for episodes. Keeping him in stone would put that all to waste, now they can put those ideas to use.

Sure, they could go with other ideas (you're mentioning a non-existing conflict btw, that's not a strong argument). But those are scenarios that were already within doable marges while staying canon. As you said yourself, you can take Candence and co. out and nobody will care, but Discord has become part of the show.

Popperfett wrote:

The Twilcorn or the Pegalight, whatever you want to call it, is controversial. I think we can all agree on that. Otherwise, we wouldn’t be talking about it with such fury.

We never disagreed with it. The difference in what we believe is how the overall fandom will react to it. You call it doomsday, we call it overreaction with a chance of will never happen even.

Now we know the Hub denied the idea of the Twilight-alicorn, but the way things are looking, they could have been telling us something equivalent of one of the most recent things Faust cleared up on about Equestria.

That is entirely based on vague assumptions. It doesn't support either side, whether Twilicorn will happen or not. So I'm just going to call that part invalid.

In my opinion, actually, this season has had a horrible track record for ‘good’ episodes. Most of them for me have either been disappointing or not as great as they could have been. And that’s just in general.

Opinion based, and based on past episode discussions obviously something people disagree on. But there are other parts which can explain why this season is seen as the worst of the 3 by some.

Our expectations became higher. We don't expect mediocre episodes anymore, we expect quality nowadays. Obviously the creators can not meet all our criteria. But because they've impressed us a few times with previous incoming doomsday episodes, we expect that to happen again. Only the future will answer this.

You see, the fandom is in fact weaker than it was a year ago.

This part just bothered me. Weaker fandom? Plenty of points disagree with that. Do I have to redirect you to those Derpy discussions we had with MisterDude? This is of course up for discussion, but I'm pretty certain of my points.

But it did leave a tone: Whether there will be a Twilicorn or not, whether yesterday or tomorrow, your answer will not change. To you the fandom is already dying inside for a long time, and no rebuttal will change that.

But I am not suprised. You joined here when you were starting some group to save Derpy (what happened to that btw?), while nearly all posters here back then already disagreed with your group's view. Our opinions already clashed the moment you first posted here.

but I say to you…that decision is suicide…and nothing can stop its results…

….. You know what, I'm not even going to try anymore. You're just being stubborn at this point.

PopperFett the Mandalorian Brony wrote:

In my opinion, actually, this season has had a horrible track record for ‘good’ episodes. Most of them for me have either been disappointing or not as great as they could have been. And that’s just in general.

In my opinion, that's bullshit. This season doesn't really differ in quality from the previous one. I think folks are just getting needlessly critical and raising their expectations far too high, while simultaneously allowing nostalgia to blind them. I think many would benefit from marathoning the series, seeing it again with fresh eyes.

Now, of course, what constitutes a "good" episode is very subjective, but really now? Most of the season isn't good? If you ask me, only two of the ten episodes we've seen thus far are iffy in any great capacity, and even they have their redeeming qualities.

The idea to me is a story-suicide, meaning that such an event in the plot will shake the show and more than likely rock the fandom. Badly. The decision will not be universally accepted, and we will see a change. And from the way it looks…a change for the worse. Not immediately, but gradually, and eventually.

If the show stays exactly the same, it will change for the worse as well. It will eventually become a rehearsal of what's already been done, with the characters reduced to caricatures of their former selves.

I know, I know, change is scary and all that. But let's face it, nothing has ever become better by staying the same. Not to mention the fact that nothing can stay the same for very long.

And I really don't see why everyone's getting their knickers in a twist over this whole possibility of change. I, for one, think the whole shebang would open up some great storytelling potential. Of course, it would necessitate that the show's format changes quite a bit, but hey, that's only inherently bad if you make it out to be.

You see, my clock doesn’t tick for the immediate downfall of bronydom. I ticks not for the point where all of us just give up. It doesn’t tick for the point of the show’s immediate end.

It ticks to the point of no return. The point where the show will show barreness. The point where the brony fandom will no longer enjoy growth, but will only know decline, and a destitute future.

Pah, I don't think you're putting enough stock in the staying power of a fandom. Take Star Wars, for example. They've lived through the utter and complete bastardization of their beloved franchise (by the creator of said franchise, no less) yet they're still chugging along without too much cracking under pressure.

You can't truly kill a fandom. The only way to do that is to erase the object of the fandom from all records and eliminate everyone who remembers it. No, fandoms only fluctuate, waxing and waning by the whims of culture and random chance. Some things are forgotten, consigned to dusty archives. Sometimes, someone stumbles on such buried relics and they enjoy a renaissance.

@Popper

Well, I didn't say all that.

I feel like this season on average ranks just as highly as Seasons 1 and 2. Keep Calm and Flutter On, Sleepless in Ponyville, and Wonderbolt Academy are probably in the bottom quarter of the episodes in terms of my personal enjoyment, but some episodes in this Season are in the top quarter (i.e., Too Many Pinkie Pies, Spike at Your Service, Magic Duel).

Speaking of the most recent episode, I can't quite peg it, but I'm not really sure what of interest happened. Discord was released to "help," Fluttershy was nice to him, and he decided to not to haul off and Discord everyone and everything. I didn't find the plot all that interesting, The visual gags were good, but I like Dave Polsky for how he writes the interaction of the Mane 6 outside of the plot (see Over a Barrel, Too Many Pinkie Pies, and Spike at Your Service) and not the visual gags. Here, a lot of the interaction was focused/had to be focused on Discord, the on-screen interactions were mostly between Fluttershy and Discord, and the Mane 6 was reduced to "skeptical of Discord." I didn't see much variation in their opinions or even how they approached him. Dash probably varied the most, but on the whole, they were just skeptical. Not fearful, not amused regardless of chaos (i.e., I expected Pinkie to act more like pre-Discord'd Pinkie. At best, she was intrigued by the gravy boat dog, but she immediately went back to being skeptical upon hearing about the flooded Sweet Apple Acres…instead of swimming in it.), just slightly different clones of each other. Yes, yes, they were all Discord'd and remembered the experience, but the five outside Fluttershy were exactly the same as each other.

And then Fluttershy wasn't really Fluttershy. I did read that this episode focused on her kindness, but that has been done before (A Bird in the Hoof, not saying that it can be emphasized again.) Just as much as she is nice, Fluttershy is shy. Quiet. Even at her most assertive, she's awkward with it (except when played for humor.) Rarity is generous, but she's also very clean, very fashionable, prim, proper…AJ is honest, but she's also hard-working, helpful, dependable, level-headed…the Mane Six didn't seem to differ so much in this episode. And the interaction between Fluttershy and Discord wasn't that interesting for me. That's why I didn't like it.

I hesitate to call it a polarizing season though or a season with bad episodes. Even though I didn't enjoy Wonderbolts Academy, I don't think it was a bad episode. Same for Sleepless in Ponyville. And based off of animation, the interactions, and the continuity that has been portrayed, I'd say the show is getting even better.

I hardly think the series is going downhill.
 
However, hypothetically, I don't see how Twilight isn't being prepared for something big. Luna and Celestia were both talking about it in the premiere, How she randonly ends up being an alicorn, I don't know. And I'm not panicking just yet.

@RandomMan

Plenty of us did Verbose, don’t ignore those posts now. I find it insulting that you point me out while in the exact same post as that quote I made a rebuttal.

I'm not arguing that Popperfett has an opinion that people have. I don't think anyone else is concerned about the series. What I'm saying is that you (and others) were needlessly rude about it. There's no need to call someone's ideas stupid, even if they are.

And I did point you out, but not to be personal or to insult you. It was an example, and you did provide one. I will call out any user above me or below me if I think they're being rude. I don't want people to start to get pushed around and have to think a certain way. I felt that Popper was being forced to that.

There are some issues that just go on and on. At some point, it makes sense to try to end that topic to keep things moving along. But this topic hadn't gotten to that point yet. I'm sorry if you feel offended. You know I hold you in high regard for being an all-around moderator in the forum, the entries, and the IRC. But I felt that your posts and a couple of others weren't respectful of Popper, considering that Popper just had an unpopular, panicked opinion.

No, it was not necessary, but it certainly is handy to have him around. We know from Season 2 what Discord is capable off. His powers hold a lot of great ideas for episodes. Keeping him in stone would put that all to waste, now they can put those ideas to use.

I think you might have made a more convincing argument that the series is "jumping the shark."

I don't think writers should feel the need to bring back a character to have more episode ideas. If that was a main reason why they brought Discord back, then that indicates some need to come up with new material. Bringing back a (as close as you can get to) dead character in order to have more episode ideas sounds like a step towards running out of ideas (very bad, It's bound to happen sooner or later, but bringing back dead characters to continue to have episode ideas probably means the show should end before it turns into DragonBall GT.)

If I had to take a guess, Discord is probably going to serve some purpose in the future (I see it as unnecessary until we learn that Discord's unique powers for…chaos…is greater or more useful than three two alicorns and freaking Twilight Sparkle.) If he doesn't, then it's just a fan service (not necessarily good or bad…just not necessary, especially since they didn't seem to have the time to pull it off.)

I don't think they did it to have more ideas for episodes.

Sure, they could go with other ideas (you’re mentioning a non-existing conflict btw, that’s not a strong argument). But those are scenarios that were already within doable marges while staying canon. As you said yourself, you can take Candence and co. out and nobody will care, but Discord has become part of the show.

1. There will be some sort of conflict. Whether it's another villain or its Twilight's ongoing test to become something, there will be another major conflict. The Season 3 premiere confirmed that.
2. And yes, staying within canon. Those are unexplored interactions and developments between the princesses and the Mane 6. Heck, we don't even know too much about the relationship between Twilight and Celestia or Luna and Celestia. There's no need to bring a dead villain back to life, let alone reform him in the span of one episode.
3. I think I said that Discord had become a part of FiM lore. "Discord is a part of FiM lore." Not to mince words, but I mean that it's part of the ongoing history of Twilight Sparkle and the rest of the bearers of the Elements of Harmony. It seems odd to bring back an epic villain just because he's fun and because he gives you more ideas for episodes.

This part just bothered me. Weaker fandom? Plenty of points disagree with that. Do I have to redirect you to those Derpy discussions we had with MisterDude? This is of course up for discussion, but I’m pretty certain of my points.
But it did leave a tone: Whether there will be a Twilicorn or not, whether yesterday or tomorrow, your answer will not change. To you the fandom is already dying inside for a long time, and no rebuttal will change that.
But I am not suprised. You joined here when you were starting some group to save Derpy (what happened to that btw?), while nearly all posters here back then already disagreed with your group’s view. Our opinions already clashed the moment you first posted here.

That's personal. It's not even necessary, RandomMan.

: /

I have to say something:

I agree with Popperfett on one thing: Twilight Alicorn is a bad idea.

But here are some other bad or generally unappealing ideas:

1. Sleepovers (Look Before You Sleep)

2. Fashion/Dresses (Suited for Success)

3. Weddings (Canterlot Wedding)

4. Shows about magical unicorns intended for little girls (….)

Yet I like all four. This entire show is built on the premise of making bad ideas into good things.

And right now, we're just grasping at straws. Is Twilight gonna be an Alicorn? Is it gonna be permanent or temporary? Is Skyla in there or what?

Right now, we have absolutely zero knowledge of this. The episode can be good or bad, unless we can peer into the future, speculating about its effect is meaningless.

Popperfett wrote:

As for the rest of the stuff, and to put an end to the worry about the clock, the clock is just a prediction of a ‘doomsday’.

You just put "an end to worry" and predicting Doomsday in the same sentence…..

Zeroblue wrote:

Hmm… This seems to be one of the few episodes that has a near uniform opinion from its fans. While all the others are Polarizing.

Not really, we have three here (Verbose, Popper and Evan) who are not too fond of the episode for valid reasons and there's plenty of disagreement outside KYM as well.

kewl wrote:

There’s only one thing that makes me worry about the show, the guy who wrote the premise for this episode….a 15 year old brony

Coily wrote:

@kewln00b: I’m not entirely sure where that rumor started, but from what I read on EqD, they were working on this Discord episode shortly after they wrote the Season 2 opener.

Whitish Collar wrote:

So the last episode is based upon a fanfic from a 15 year old brony that managed to circumvent the no fanfic rule by having some good relations, well colour me surprised. Perhaps all he contributed was the idea of Fluttershy and Discord sharing a flat, but we will never know for sure.

I already posted about this but it seemed to get lost in the shuffle so let me repost what I said:

I have something for you guys….did you notice a new writer for the episode? Teddy Antonio?

According to a commentator on Equestria Daily claiming to be Antonio….he’s a 15 year old brony that somehow got to write an episode because his parents are friends with Linda Steiner, a senior director at Hasbro.

He claims that his parents are Tedd and Patsy Anasti, two writers that do indeed have iMDB pages that check out.

Now, I would call this whole thin bullshit if he didn’t correctly predict his name appearing in the opening credits…..3 weeks before the episode aired.

Something is definitely up, otherwise this is a massive case of nepotism.

You can find all his comments on EqD here:

http://intensedebate.com/people/TeddyAntonio/

Double post for great justice!

Verbose wrote:

(I see it as unnecessary until we learn that Discord’s unique powers for…chaos…is greater or more useful than three two alicorns and freaking Twilight Sparkle.

Because Celestia realizes that she and her sister are fucking useless, they need Discord to get shit done.

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Verbose wrote:

There’s no need to call someone’s ideas stupid, even if they are.

I partly disagree. Reviews, feedback and critisism are an important part of every idea. Sure there are some limits to how you word your opinion, but not saying it will help even less. If an idea lacks things or is just plain bad, I believe it should be told. You don't learn from your mistakes if nobody corrects them.

You know I hold you in high regard for being an all-around moderator in the forum, the entries, and the IRC.

That’s personal. It’s not even necessary, RandomMan.

My apologies to Popper. These "dying" and "everything is long lost" viewpoints just get on my nerves at times. As my history probably shows, I dislike overreacting and drama.

Anyway, to clear up…again

My view is that the episode will be a make-it or break-it point in the show. If it is true, that is bad, and I don't like it. There are many who share the same feeling.

In fact, many were predicting doomsday long before this worry even came out. Now others are worrying that this is indeed a breaking point. From what I could tell, /mlp/ (no matter how much some of you hate it) was a center for concern about the end of the fandom.

I reiderate, the doomsday (and speculation, as we know nothing) is really a point of no return. Not an immediate destruction, but the breaking point I predict will first jump the shark even further.

First, I want to look at this objectively:

Evidence for the Twilicorn/Pegalight

http://www.equestriadaily.com/2013/01/possible-alicorn-twilight-toy-in.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+EquestriaDaily+(Equestria+Daily)

http://www.equestriadaily.com/2012/10/brand-licensing-in-europes-twilight.html

Two of several articles showing first offical merch containing a winged Twilight Sparkle, and then a Europe Convention containing a poster with the winged Twilight. The poster is of some concern considering the last time, Shining Armor and Cadence showed up on the poster at the Con, before "A Canterlot Wedding" (and I think before the episode was even announced), and thereby had a premature showing of the future.

Other things include other material, such as coloring books, containing the winged Twilight.

Evidence Against

Well, we can start with the Hub's Twitter post. They outright denied it. Comes from the channel that broadcasts the show, after all.

Other evidence is that there seemingly is no real indication of it show-wise. Though we rely on a big finale, that doesn't necessarily mean we have to jump the gun and assume something that big. Though Twilight has encountered many dangers, she apparently has much to learn. In Spike At Your Service, she's seen studying like she normally would be, at Celestia's orders no less, proving she's still more of a student still than a full heroine and demigod worthy.A bit like Disney's Hercules. He did a whole lotta good, but wasn't god-material yet.

And on the Twitter post, someone posted "the magic of Photoshop". We could also be looking at hoaxes and mistakes brought forward to make us panic.

However, the above point concerns me if it is true, then it would be jumping the gun way too far in my opinion.

I brought up and mentioned about Darth Maul in Star Wars: The Clone Wars for a reason. I said I didn't think bringing him back was a good idea, and yet, if you all recall, I mentioned how good they made it. But still, I know that was the shark-jump point in the show. It just was a stupid idea. Though they made it epic (I see these episodes; they're actually pretty good), it's a bad idea nonetheless, and will probably kill the series after next season (which is being drafted up).

Which is my stance on the Twilight-Alicorn, and why I keep a doomsday clock for predictive measures (all on speculation, so it's prone to going away if fears dispelled). If true, no matter how good they try to make it, it's a bad idea, and will probably doom the series from then on.

And as you all stated

It's my opinion.

Oh hey, my IDW comic arrived in the mail today.

The second issue arrived and the first issue hasn't yet.

>First world problems.

Added note, Chrysalis is goddamn adorable.